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\"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:09,639 --> 00:00:13,362\n謝謝主席我有請核安會張代理主委張代主委請\n\n2\n00:00:17,310 --> 00:00:31,255\n主委好今天呢我們要討論的是這個我們核安會的業務報告然後也有預算的詢答那我想很多人都在討論是這個有些人說核電要不要來研議那\n\n3\n00:00:34,264 --> 00:00:48,620\n日前我們行政院院長是說即便有修法通過要來重新評估核電廠的原意及啟用的話這個時間至少也是要三年半至五年\n\n4\n00:00:50,001 --> 00:01:07,605\n之前這是行政院院長的說法不過我最近看到一則忠實的新聞他裡面說有不具名的核電廠前高層他說呢核電廠如果要研議的話最快一年多就可以來重啟我首先想要請問張代理主委你認同這個說法嗎有辦法一年就來重啟嗎\n\n5\n00:01:19,284 --> 00:01:47,682\n我想基組要重啟必須要根據基組的樣態來做安全評估那台電公司事實上他們自己有說明他們在安全評估的部分他必須要評估他用多少時間才能完成整體的安全評估以核一廠為例的話他事實上已經進行了一些設備的拆除他整個組織管理的人力也做了組織的變革另外的話他有些設備的維護保養因為進入廚藝不再進行所以這整個都要來進行盤點\n\n6\n00:01:49,783 --> 00:02:16,132\n然後做出他們的安全評估之後還包括所有的老化的部分的評估他才能夠來進行這個安全的審查所以所謂的一年我並不清楚這個依據是什麼沒有錯因為其實有相當多跟安全有關的項目要來做評估那我仔細看了一下這位所謂的不具名核電廠前高層的說法他為什麼說可以一年呢他說其實核安會啊不需要檢查那麼多的項目\n\n7\n00:02:16,972 --> 00:02:17,813\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會主管核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預\n\n8\n00:02:37,216 --> 00:02:43,003\n所以他依照這三點他作出他的結論說只要核安會可以減少這個安全評估的項目的話那時間可以減少到一年我認同剛剛前面張代理主委所說的安全相關的項目這個非同小可我們該做的一定都來做\n\n9\n00:02:56,698 --> 00:03:00,339\n從專業來嚴格把關千萬不能有這種為了趕時間乾脆把你安全項目要檢查項目把它減少的這一種做法那同時呢我也相當質疑因為之前在質詢核安會的時候我也就曾提過了因為我們當年的核電廠還沒有環評法規所以過去不用做環評但是現在已經有環評法規了所以如果你不管你要重啟還是研議都需要來做環評以環評的這個程序來講\n\n10\n00:03:26,468 --> 00:03:52,639\n一年之內是不可能的除非你犧牲專業以及現在我們當代的公共治理也是一門專業公共治理裡面公民的參與這是必要的程序我舉個例子武漢會我們是研究機關你們可能比較沒有到執行層面那麼了解以台電來說台電一定相當清楚我們現在光是一個變電箱要下地\n\n11\n00:03:53,419 --> 00:04:15,345\n都一定要辦理現勘都一定要向民眾說明都一定要充分來溝通甚至要召開說明會這當中都需要公民參與公開透明的過程那我們教育委員會本委員會有非常多新北市的民意代表新北市的立法委員我相信他們也不可能可以認同說哇今天你一個核電廠要演繹要重啟竟然可以\n\n12\n00:04:18,806 --> 00:04:23,349\n不用環評竟然可以不用跟公民來召開說明會這一場都不夠這樣有充分的公民參與才有可能做出最後的決策所以呢因為這一則新聞在網路上面我看瀏覽率也很高很多人在傳以而傳而我很擔心這個錯誤的講法變成一個是變成大家認為說一年是有可能的所以我希望這相關的資訊要澄清清楚\n\n13\n00:04:45,123 --> 00:04:48,425\n以現行的以核安的專業來講如果你相關的安全項目都要來檢查的話一年是不可能的再來我們要通過環評的程序再來我們需要有公民參與的過程所以我希望未來倘若\n\n14\n00:05:00,174 --> 00:05:21,893\n真的有進入到要實質要來評估的時候希望核安會可以本於專業來進行嚴格的審查跟把關可以嗎?委員核安會一定會本於專業嚴格把關是那再來要跟張主委請教的是因為在今天的業務報告當中也有提到核安會要收集我們小型模組化反應爐也就是SMR的相關資訊\n\n15\n00:05:23,354 --> 00:05:45,936\n收集核能相關的科技進展這當然是核安會的業務除了技術面以外我也希望核安會要來注意成本的面向因為我看到美國智庫這個能源經濟與金融分析研究院還有最新一份報告是說對SMR成本的預估是不斷在飆高我看你看像上面這個表格\n\n16\n00:05:47,097 --> 00:05:47,137\n數字數字\n\n17\n00:06:17,037 --> 00:06:19,979\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會及所屬單位預算案\n\n18\n00:06:48,917 --> 00:07:14,622\n目前事實上是在做熱測試熱測試的話只做兩桶所以目前已經裝了一桶那一桶也運到儲存場址的定位接下來他們會做第二桶等到兩桶的熱測試做完他們會做整體的作業檢討然後提出他的運轉執照申請然後我們會依照他運轉執照申請的相關文件來檢視他是不是可以取得運轉執照\n\n19\n00:07:15,982 --> 00:07:23,525\n好的那因為這是我們第一次嘛幹處的嘗試在熱測室當中所以民眾也都很關心所以我希望說後續你們一定會有持續的監控等等相關資訊的收集我希望我們也要務必的來謹慎然後作為我們後續的實際操作的這些經驗的參考\n\n20\n00:07:36,071 --> 00:07:58,238\n最後一點也想要跟張磊主委討論就是呢我們核安會每年都要推動性別主流化這也是行政院性品專案小組定期有在討論跟核管的那長期下來我們核安會的這個男女的比例目前整體全部的員工男性跟女性的比例是多少我們手邊有沒有數字多少我們應該是有數字6比4\n\n21\n00:08:01,550 --> 00:08:01,770\n主管人員男女4比1\n\n22\n00:08:26,295 --> 00:08:33,138\n國際的有一個組織歐洲的國際原子能總署他們現在也正在發起一個計畫跟領英的一個人力平台就是特別來去支持核能領域的女性人才我想這個可以給我們核安會來做參考希望我們可以跟我們整體的行政部會一起來往性別主流化的進程再往前推進是的我們繼續努力\n\n23\n00:08:54,989 --> 00:08:56,013\n代理主委請回\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9639\t13362\t謝謝主席 我有請核安會張代理主委張代主委請\n17310\t31255\t主委好今天呢我們要討論的是這個我們核安會的業務報告然後也有預算的詢答那我想很多人都在討論是這個有些人說核電要不要來研議那\n34264\t48620\t日前我們行政院院長是說即便有修法通過要來重新評估核電廠的原意及啟用的話這個時間至少也是要三年半至五年\n50001\t67605\t之前這是行政院院長的說法不過我最近看到一則忠實的新聞他裡面說有不具名的核電廠前高層他說呢核電廠如果要研議的話最快一年多就可以來重啟我首先想要請問張代理主委你認同這個說法嗎有辦法一年就來重啟嗎\n79284\t107682\t我想基組要重啟必須要根據基組的樣態來做安全評估那台電公司事實上他們自己有說明他們在安全評估的部分他必須要評估他用多少時間才能完成整體的安全評估以核一廠為例的話他事實上已經進行了一些設備的拆除他整個組織管理的人力也做了組織的變革另外的話他有些設備的維護保養因為進入廚藝不再進行所以這整個都要來進行盤點\n109783\t136132\t然後做出他們的安全評估之後還包括所有的老化的部分的評估他才能夠來進行這個安全的審查所以所謂的一年我並不清楚這個依據是什麼沒有錯因為其實有相當多跟安全有關的項目要來做評估那我仔細看了一下這位所謂的不具名核電廠前高層的說法他為什麼說可以一年呢他說其實核安會啊不需要檢查那麼多的項目\n136972\t137813\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會主管核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預\n157216\t163003\t所以他依照這三點他作出他的結論說只要核安會可以減少這個安全評估的項目的話那時間可以減少到一年我認同剛剛前面張代理主委所說的安全相關的項目這個非同小可我們該做的一定都來做\n176698\t180339\t從專業來嚴格把關千萬不能有這種為了趕時間乾脆把你安全項目要檢查項目把它減少的這一種做法那同時呢我也相當質疑因為之前在質詢核安會的時候我也就曾提過了因為我們當年的核電廠還沒有環評法規所以過去不用做環評但是現在已經有環評法規了所以如果你不管你要重啟還是研議都需要來做環評以環評的這個程序來講\n206468\t232639\t一年之內是不可能的除非你犧牲專業以及現在我們當代的公共治理也是一門專業公共治理裡面公民的參與這是必要的程序我舉個例子武漢會我們是研究機關你們可能比較沒有到執行層面那麼了解以台電來說台電一定相當清楚我們現在光是一個變電箱要下地\n233419\t255345\t都一定要辦理現勘都一定要向民眾說明都一定要充分來溝通甚至要召開說明會這當中都需要公民參與公開透明的過程那我們教育委員會本委員會有非常多新北市的民意代表新北市的立法委員我相信他們也不可能可以認同說哇今天你一個核電廠要演繹要重啟竟然可以\n258806\t263349\t不用環評竟然可以不用跟公民來召開說明會這一場都不夠這樣有充分的公民參與才有可能做出最後的決策所以呢因為這一則新聞在網路上面我看瀏覽率也很高很多人在傳以而傳而我很擔心這個錯誤的講法變成一個是變成大家認為說一年是有可能的所以我希望這相關的資訊要澄清清楚\n285123\t288425\t以現行的以核安的專業來講如果你相關的安全項目都要來檢查的話一年是不可能的再來我們要通過環評的程序再來我們需要有公民參與的過程所以我希望未來倘若\n300174\t321893\t真的有進入到要實質要來評估的時候希望核安會可以本於專業來進行嚴格的審查跟把關可以嗎?委員核安會一定會本於專業嚴格把關是那再來要跟張主委請教的是因為在今天的業務報告當中也有提到核安會要收集我們小型模組化反應爐也就是SMR的相關資訊\n323354\t345936\t收集核能相關的科技進展這當然是核安會的業務除了技術面以外我也希望核安會要來注意成本的面向因為我看到美國智庫這個能源經濟與金融分析研究院還有最新一份報告是說對SMR成本的預估是不斷在飆高我看你看像上面這個表格\n347097\t347137\t數字數字\n377037\t379979\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會及所屬單位預算案\n408917\t434622\t目前事實上是在做熱測試熱測試的話只做兩桶所以目前已經裝了一桶那一桶也運到儲存場址的定位接下來他們會做第二桶等到兩桶的熱測試做完他們會做整體的作業檢討然後提出他的運轉執照申請然後我們會依照他運轉執照申請的相關文件來檢視他是不是可以取得運轉執照\n435982\t443525\t好的那因為這是我們第一次嘛幹處的嘗試在熱測室當中所以民眾也都很關心所以我希望說後續你們一定會有持續的監控等等相關資訊的收集我希望我們也要務必的來謹慎然後作為我們後續的實際操作的這些經驗的參考\n456071\t478238\t最後一點也想要跟張磊主委討論就是呢我們核安會每年都要推動性別主流化這也是行政院性品專案小組定期有在討論跟核管的那長期下來我們核安會的這個男女的比例目前整體全部的員工男性跟女性的比例是多少我們手邊有沒有數字多少我們應該是有數字6比4\n481550\t481770\t主管人員男女4比1\n506295\t513138\t國際的有一個組織歐洲的國際原子能總署他們現在也正在發起一個計畫跟領英的一個人力平台就是特別來去支持核能領域的女性人才我想這個可以給我們核安會來做參考希望我們可以跟我們整體的行政部會一起來往性別主流化的進程再往前推進是的我們繼續努力\n534989\t536013\t代理主委請回\n","txt":"謝謝主席 我有請核安會張代理主委張代主委請\n主委好今天呢我們要討論的是這個我們核安會的業務報告然後也有預算的詢答那我想很多人都在討論是這個有些人說核電要不要來研議那\n日前我們行政院院長是說即便有修法通過要來重新評估核電廠的原意及啟用的話這個時間至少也是要三年半至五年\n之前這是行政院院長的說法不過我最近看到一則忠實的新聞他裡面說有不具名的核電廠前高層他說呢核電廠如果要研議的話最快一年多就可以來重啟我首先想要請問張代理主委你認同這個說法嗎有辦法一年就來重啟嗎\n我想基組要重啟必須要根據基組的樣態來做安全評估那台電公司事實上他們自己有說明他們在安全評估的部分他必須要評估他用多少時間才能完成整體的安全評估以核一廠為例的話他事實上已經進行了一些設備的拆除他整個組織管理的人力也做了組織的變革另外的話他有些設備的維護保養因為進入廚藝不再進行所以這整個都要來進行盤點\n然後做出他們的安全評估之後還包括所有的老化的部分的評估他才能夠來進行這個安全的審查所以所謂的一年我並不清楚這個依據是什麼沒有錯因為其實有相當多跟安全有關的項目要來做評估那我仔細看了一下這位所謂的不具名核電廠前高層的說法他為什麼說可以一年呢他說其實核安會啊不需要檢查那麼多的項目\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會主管核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預\n所以他依照這三點他作出他的結論說只要核安會可以減少這個安全評估的項目的話那時間可以減少到一年我認同剛剛前面張代理主委所說的安全相關的項目這個非同小可我們該做的一定都來做\n從專業來嚴格把關千萬不能有這種為了趕時間乾脆把你安全項目要檢查項目把它減少的這一種做法那同時呢我也相當質疑因為之前在質詢核安會的時候我也就曾提過了因為我們當年的核電廠還沒有環評法規所以過去不用做環評但是現在已經有環評法規了所以如果你不管你要重啟還是研議都需要來做環評以環評的這個程序來講\n一年之內是不可能的除非你犧牲專業以及現在我們當代的公共治理也是一門專業公共治理裡面公民的參與這是必要的程序我舉個例子武漢會我們是研究機關你們可能比較沒有到執行層面那麼了解以台電來說台電一定相當清楚我們現在光是一個變電箱要下地\n都一定要辦理現勘都一定要向民眾說明都一定要充分來溝通甚至要召開說明會這當中都需要公民參與公開透明的過程那我們教育委員會本委員會有非常多新北市的民意代表新北市的立法委員我相信他們也不可能可以認同說哇今天你一個核電廠要演繹要重啟竟然可以\n不用環評竟然可以不用跟公民來召開說明會這一場都不夠這樣有充分的公民參與才有可能做出最後的決策所以呢因為這一則新聞在網路上面我看瀏覽率也很高很多人在傳以而傳而我很擔心這個錯誤的講法變成一個是變成大家認為說一年是有可能的所以我希望這相關的資訊要澄清清楚\n以現行的以核安的專業來講如果你相關的安全項目都要來檢查的話一年是不可能的再來我們要通過環評的程序再來我們需要有公民參與的過程所以我希望未來倘若\n真的有進入到要實質要來評估的時候希望核安會可以本於專業來進行嚴格的審查跟把關可以嗎?委員核安會一定會本於專業嚴格把關是那再來要跟張主委請教的是因為在今天的業務報告當中也有提到核安會要收集我們小型模組化反應爐也就是SMR的相關資訊\n收集核能相關的科技進展這當然是核安會的業務除了技術面以外我也希望核安會要來注意成本的面向因為我看到美國智庫這個能源經濟與金融分析研究院還有最新一份報告是說對SMR成本的預估是不斷在飆高我看你看像上面這個表格\n數字數字\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會及所屬單位預算案\n目前事實上是在做熱測試熱測試的話只做兩桶所以目前已經裝了一桶那一桶也運到儲存場址的定位接下來他們會做第二桶等到兩桶的熱測試做完他們會做整體的作業檢討然後提出他的運轉執照申請然後我們會依照他運轉執照申請的相關文件來檢視他是不是可以取得運轉執照\n好的那因為這是我們第一次嘛幹處的嘗試在熱測室當中所以民眾也都很關心所以我希望說後續你們一定會有持續的監控等等相關資訊的收集我希望我們也要務必的來謹慎然後作為我們後續的實際操作的這些經驗的參考\n最後一點也想要跟張磊主委討論就是呢我們核安會每年都要推動性別主流化這也是行政院性品專案小組定期有在討論跟核管的那長期下來我們核安會的這個男女的比例目前整體全部的員工男性跟女性的比例是多少我們手邊有沒有數字多少我們應該是有數字6比4\n主管人員男女4比1\n國際的有一個組織歐洲的國際原子能總署他們現在也正在發起一個計畫跟領英的一個人力平台就是特別來去支持核能領域的女性人才我想這個可以給我們核安會來做參考希望我們可以跟我們整體的行政部會一起來往性別主流化的進程再往前推進是的我們繼續努力\n代理主委請回\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.639 --> 00:13.362\n謝謝主席我有請核安會張代理主委張代主委請\n\n00:17.310 --> 00:31.255\n主委好今天呢我們要討論的是這個我們核安會的業務報告然後也有預算的詢答那我想很多人都在討論是這個有些人說核電要不要來研議那\n\n00:34.264 --> 00:48.620\n日前我們行政院院長是說即便有修法通過要來重新評估核電廠的原意及啟用的話這個時間至少也是要三年半至五年\n\n00:50.001 --> 01:07.605\n之前這是行政院院長的說法不過我最近看到一則忠實的新聞他裡面說有不具名的核電廠前高層他說呢核電廠如果要研議的話最快一年多就可以來重啟我首先想要請問張代理主委你認同這個說法嗎有辦法一年就來重啟嗎\n\n01:19.284 --> 01:47.682\n我想基組要重啟必須要根據基組的樣態來做安全評估那台電公司事實上他們自己有說明他們在安全評估的部分他必須要評估他用多少時間才能完成整體的安全評估以核一廠為例的話他事實上已經進行了一些設備的拆除他整個組織管理的人力也做了組織的變革另外的話他有些設備的維護保養因為進入廚藝不再進行所以這整個都要來進行盤點\n\n01:49.783 --> 02:16.132\n然後做出他們的安全評估之後還包括所有的老化的部分的評估他才能夠來進行這個安全的審查所以所謂的一年我並不清楚這個依據是什麼沒有錯因為其實有相當多跟安全有關的項目要來做評估那我仔細看了一下這位所謂的不具名核電廠前高層的說法他為什麼說可以一年呢他說其實核安會啊不需要檢查那麼多的項目\n\n02:16.972 --> 02:17.813\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會主管核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預\n\n02:37.216 --> 02:43.003\n所以他依照這三點他作出他的結論說只要核安會可以減少這個安全評估的項目的話那時間可以減少到一年我認同剛剛前面張代理主委所說的安全相關的項目這個非同小可我們該做的一定都來做\n\n02:56.698 --> 03:00.339\n從專業來嚴格把關千萬不能有這種為了趕時間乾脆把你安全項目要檢查項目把它減少的這一種做法那同時呢我也相當質疑因為之前在質詢核安會的時候我也就曾提過了因為我們當年的核電廠還沒有環評法規所以過去不用做環評但是現在已經有環評法規了所以如果你不管你要重啟還是研議都需要來做環評以環評的這個程序來講\n\n03:26.468 --> 03:52.639\n一年之內是不可能的除非你犧牲專業以及現在我們當代的公共治理也是一門專業公共治理裡面公民的參與這是必要的程序我舉個例子武漢會我們是研究機關你們可能比較沒有到執行層面那麼了解以台電來說台電一定相當清楚我們現在光是一個變電箱要下地\n\n03:53.419 --> 04:15.345\n都一定要辦理現勘都一定要向民眾說明都一定要充分來溝通甚至要召開說明會這當中都需要公民參與公開透明的過程那我們教育委員會本委員會有非常多新北市的民意代表新北市的立法委員我相信他們也不可能可以認同說哇今天你一個核電廠要演繹要重啟竟然可以\n\n04:18.806 --> 04:23.349\n不用環評竟然可以不用跟公民來召開說明會這一場都不夠這樣有充分的公民參與才有可能做出最後的決策所以呢因為這一則新聞在網路上面我看瀏覽率也很高很多人在傳以而傳而我很擔心這個錯誤的講法變成一個是變成大家認為說一年是有可能的所以我希望這相關的資訊要澄清清楚\n\n04:45.123 --> 04:48.425\n以現行的以核安的專業來講如果你相關的安全項目都要來檢查的話一年是不可能的再來我們要通過環評的程序再來我們需要有公民參與的過程所以我希望未來倘若\n\n05:00.174 --> 05:21.893\n真的有進入到要實質要來評估的時候希望核安會可以本於專業來進行嚴格的審查跟把關可以嗎?委員核安會一定會本於專業嚴格把關是那再來要跟張主委請教的是因為在今天的業務報告當中也有提到核安會要收集我們小型模組化反應爐也就是SMR的相關資訊\n\n05:23.354 --> 05:45.936\n收集核能相關的科技進展這當然是核安會的業務除了技術面以外我也希望核安會要來注意成本的面向因為我看到美國智庫這個能源經濟與金融分析研究院還有最新一份報告是說對SMR成本的預估是不斷在飆高我看你看像上面這個表格\n\n05:47.097 --> 05:47.137\n數字數字\n\n06:17.037 --> 06:19.979\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會及所屬單位預算案\n\n06:48.917 --> 07:14.622\n目前事實上是在做熱測試熱測試的話只做兩桶所以目前已經裝了一桶那一桶也運到儲存場址的定位接下來他們會做第二桶等到兩桶的熱測試做完他們會做整體的作業檢討然後提出他的運轉執照申請然後我們會依照他運轉執照申請的相關文件來檢視他是不是可以取得運轉執照\n\n07:15.982 --> 07:23.525\n好的那因為這是我們第一次嘛幹處的嘗試在熱測室當中所以民眾也都很關心所以我希望說後續你們一定會有持續的監控等等相關資訊的收集我希望我們也要務必的來謹慎然後作為我們後續的實際操作的這些經驗的參考\n\n07:36.071 --> 07:58.238\n最後一點也想要跟張磊主委討論就是呢我們核安會每年都要推動性別主流化這也是行政院性品專案小組定期有在討論跟核管的那長期下來我們核安會的這個男女的比例目前整體全部的員工男性跟女性的比例是多少我們手邊有沒有數字多少我們應該是有數字6比4\n\n08:01.550 --> 08:01.770\n主管人員男女4比1\n\n08:26.295 --> 08:33.138\n國際的有一個組織歐洲的國際原子能總署他們現在也正在發起一個計畫跟領英的一個人力平台就是特別來去支持核能領域的女性人才我想這個可以給我們核安會來做參考希望我們可以跟我們整體的行政部會一起來往性別主流化的進程再往前推進是的我們繼續努力\n\n08:54.989 --> 08:56.013\n代理主委請回\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.639,"end":13.362,"text":"謝謝主席 我有請核安會張代理主委張代主委請"},{"start":17.31,"end":31.255,"text":"主委好今天呢我們要討論的是這個我們核安會的業務報告然後也有預算的詢答那我想很多人都在討論是這個有些人說核電要不要來研議那"},{"start":34.264,"end":48.62,"text":"日前我們行政院院長是說即便有修法通過要來重新評估核電廠的原意及啟用的話這個時間至少也是要三年半至五年"},{"start":50.001,"end":67.605,"text":"之前這是行政院院長的說法不過我最近看到一則忠實的新聞他裡面說有不具名的核電廠前高層他說呢核電廠如果要研議的話最快一年多就可以來重啟我首先想要請問張代理主委你認同這個說法嗎有辦法一年就來重啟嗎"},{"start":79.284,"end":107.682,"text":"我想基組要重啟必須要根據基組的樣態來做安全評估那台電公司事實上他們自己有說明他們在安全評估的部分他必須要評估他用多少時間才能完成整體的安全評估以核一廠為例的話他事實上已經進行了一些設備的拆除他整個組織管理的人力也做了組織的變革另外的話他有些設備的維護保養因為進入廚藝不再進行所以這整個都要來進行盤點"},{"start":109.783,"end":136.132,"text":"然後做出他們的安全評估之後還包括所有的老化的部分的評估他才能夠來進行這個安全的審查所以所謂的一年我並不清楚這個依據是什麼沒有錯因為其實有相當多跟安全有關的項目要來做評估那我仔細看了一下這位所謂的不具名核電廠前高層的說法他為什麼說可以一年呢他說其實核安會啊不需要檢查那麼多的項目"},{"start":136.972,"end":137.813,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會主管核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預"},{"start":157.216,"end":163.003,"text":"所以他依照這三點他作出他的結論說只要核安會可以減少這個安全評估的項目的話那時間可以減少到一年我認同剛剛前面張代理主委所說的安全相關的項目這個非同小可我們該做的一定都來做"},{"start":176.698,"end":180.339,"text":"從專業來嚴格把關千萬不能有這種為了趕時間乾脆把你安全項目要檢查項目把它減少的這一種做法那同時呢我也相當質疑因為之前在質詢核安會的時候我也就曾提過了因為我們當年的核電廠還沒有環評法規所以過去不用做環評但是現在已經有環評法規了所以如果你不管你要重啟還是研議都需要來做環評以環評的這個程序來講"},{"start":206.468,"end":232.639,"text":"一年之內是不可能的除非你犧牲專業以及現在我們當代的公共治理也是一門專業公共治理裡面公民的參與這是必要的程序我舉個例子武漢會我們是研究機關你們可能比較沒有到執行層面那麼了解以台電來說台電一定相當清楚我們現在光是一個變電箱要下地"},{"start":233.419,"end":255.345,"text":"都一定要辦理現勘都一定要向民眾說明都一定要充分來溝通甚至要召開說明會這當中都需要公民參與公開透明的過程那我們教育委員會本委員會有非常多新北市的民意代表新北市的立法委員我相信他們也不可能可以認同說哇今天你一個核電廠要演繹要重啟竟然可以"},{"start":258.806,"end":263.349,"text":"不用環評竟然可以不用跟公民來召開說明會這一場都不夠這樣有充分的公民參與才有可能做出最後的決策所以呢因為這一則新聞在網路上面我看瀏覽率也很高很多人在傳以而傳而我很擔心這個錯誤的講法變成一個是變成大家認為說一年是有可能的所以我希望這相關的資訊要澄清清楚"},{"start":285.123,"end":288.425,"text":"以現行的以核安的專業來講如果你相關的安全項目都要來檢查的話一年是不可能的再來我們要通過環評的程序再來我們需要有公民參與的過程所以我希望未來倘若"},{"start":300.174,"end":321.893,"text":"真的有進入到要實質要來評估的時候希望核安會可以本於專業來進行嚴格的審查跟把關可以嗎?委員核安會一定會本於專業嚴格把關是那再來要跟張主委請教的是因為在今天的業務報告當中也有提到核安會要收集我們小型模組化反應爐也就是SMR的相關資訊"},{"start":323.354,"end":345.936,"text":"收集核能相關的科技進展這當然是核安會的業務除了技術面以外我也希望核安會要來注意成本的面向因為我看到美國智庫這個能源經濟與金融分析研究院還有最新一份報告是說對SMR成本的預估是不斷在飆高我看你看像上面這個表格"},{"start":347.097,"end":347.137,"text":"數字數字"},{"start":377.037,"end":379.979,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會及所屬單位預算案"},{"start":408.917,"end":434.622,"text":"目前事實上是在做熱測試熱測試的話只做兩桶所以目前已經裝了一桶那一桶也運到儲存場址的定位接下來他們會做第二桶等到兩桶的熱測試做完他們會做整體的作業檢討然後提出他的運轉執照申請然後我們會依照他運轉執照申請的相關文件來檢視他是不是可以取得運轉執照"},{"start":435.982,"end":443.525,"text":"好的那因為這是我們第一次嘛幹處的嘗試在熱測室當中所以民眾也都很關心所以我希望說後續你們一定會有持續的監控等等相關資訊的收集我希望我們也要務必的來謹慎然後作為我們後續的實際操作的這些經驗的參考"},{"start":456.071,"end":478.238,"text":"最後一點也想要跟張磊主委討論就是呢我們核安會每年都要推動性別主流化這也是行政院性品專案小組定期有在討論跟核管的那長期下來我們核安會的這個男女的比例目前整體全部的員工男性跟女性的比例是多少我們手邊有沒有數字多少我們應該是有數字6比4"},{"start":481.55,"end":481.77,"text":"主管人員男女4比1"},{"start":506.295,"end":513.138,"text":"國際的有一個組織歐洲的國際原子能總署他們現在也正在發起一個計畫跟領英的一個人力平台就是特別來去支持核能領域的女性人才我想這個可以給我們核安會來做參考希望我們可以跟我們整體的行政部會一起來往性別主流化的進程再往前推進是的我們繼續努力"},{"start":534.989,"end":536.013,"text":"代理主委請回"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":486,"blocks":[["吳委員沛憶：（10時59分）謝謝主席，有請核安會張代理主委。"],["主席：張代理主委，請。"],["吳委員沛憶：主委好。今天要討論的是核安會業務報告也有預算詢答，我想很多人都在討論，有些人說核電要不要來延役？日前行政院院長是說，即便有修法通過要重新評估核電廠的延役及啟用，這個時間至少也是要三年半至五年，這是之前行政院院長的說法。不過我最近看到一則中時的新聞說，有位不具名的核電廠前高層說核電廠如果要延役的話，最快一年多就可以來重啟。首先請問張代理主委，你認同這個說法嗎？有辦法一年就來重啟嗎？"],["張代理主任委員欣：我想機組要重啟必須要根據機組的樣態來做安全評估。"],["吳委員沛憶：是。"],["張代理主任委員欣：台電公司事實上有說明在安全評估的部分，必須要評估用多少時間才能完成整體的安全評估。以核一廠為例，事實上已經進行一些設備的拆除，整個組織管理人力也做了組織的變革，另外有些設備的維護保養因為進入除役不再進行，這整個都要進行盤點，然後做出安全評估之後，還包括所有老化部分的評估，才能進行安全的審查。所以所謂的一年，我並不清楚這個依據是什麼。"],["吳委員沛憶：沒有錯，因為其實有相當多跟安全有關的項目要來做評估。我仔細看了一下這位所謂的不具名核電廠前高層的說法，他為什麼說一年呢？他說其實核安會不需要檢查那麼多的項目，項目如果檢查少一點，那時間就可以加速；第二點他說有些分析其實不用做，分析少做一點時間當然可以縮短；再來這位不具名的前高層又說了，他說還有核電廠存放的舊零件，有些舊零件可以直接拿來用，不一定都要換新的。所以他依照這三點做出這樣的結論，只要核安會可以減少安全評估的項目，那時間可以減少到一年。","我認同剛剛前面張代理主委所說的，安全相關的項目這個非同小可，我們該做的一定都要來做，從專業來嚴格把關，千萬不能有這種為了趕時間乾脆把安全項目、要檢查項目減少的這種做法。同時我也相當質疑，之前在質詢核安會的時候我也就曾提過，因為當年的核電廠還沒有環評法規，所以過去不用做環評，但是現在已經有環評法規了，所以不管要重啟還是延役都需要來做環評，以環評的程序來講一年之內是不可能的，除非犧牲專業。而且當代公共治理也是一門專業，公共治理裡面公民的參與是必要的程序，我舉個例子，核安會是研究機關，可能對執行層面沒有那麼瞭解，以台電來說，台電一定相當清楚，現在光是一個變電箱的設置，都一定要辦理現勘、都一定要向民眾說明、都一定要充分溝通，甚至要召開說明會，這當中都需要公民參與、公開透明的過程。我們教文會有非常多新北市的民意代表、新北市的立法委員，我相信他們也不可能認同，哇！今天一個核電廠要延役、要重啟，竟然可以不用環評，竟然可以不用跟公民來召開說明會，這一場都不夠，只有充分的公民參與，才有可能做出最後的決策。","因為這一則新聞在網路上面，我看瀏覽率也很高，很多人在傳，以訛傳訛，我很擔心錯誤的講法變成大家認為一年是有可能的，所以我希望這相關的資訊要澄清清楚。以現行核安的專業來講，如果相關的安全項目都要檢查的話，一年是不可能的，再來要通過環評的程序、需要有公民參與的過程。我希望未來倘若真的進入到要實質評估的時候，核安會可以本於專業來進行嚴格的審查跟把關，可以嗎？"],["張代理主任委員欣：是，委員，核安會一定會本於專業嚴格把關。"],["吳委員沛憶：是。再來要跟張主委請教的是，因為今天的業務報告當中也有提到，核安會要蒐集我們小型模組化反應爐也就是SMR相關資訊，那蒐集核能相關的科技進展，這當然是核安會的業務，除了技術面以外，我也希望核安會要注意成本的面向。因為我看到美國智庫：能源經濟與金融分析研究所最新一份研究報告指出，對SMR成本的預估是不斷在飆高，你看螢幕上面的表格有三倍，甚至有些是飆高到七到八倍的。因為你們還在做資訊相關的蒐集，蒐集以後才有下一步的評估嘛，我希望你們在做SMR相關資訊蒐集的時候，連同成本面也一定要整理清楚，提供更完整的評估，好嗎？"],["張代理主任委員欣：好，如果可以蒐集到相關的成本資訊，我們會請國原院納入它的資料蒐集範圍。"],["吳委員沛憶：好，謝謝。接下來要請教的是，核一乾貯場已經啟動，現在進入熱測試，就是把少量用過的核燃料封存完善之後拿去乾貯場放置。上個月是我們臺灣史上首次終於有能力、有辦法開始把用過的燃料棒從燃料池裡面移出來，這是非常非常重要的一步。所以我想請問一下，現在是不是試運轉的期間？乾貯場什麼時候可以來正式運轉？"],["張代理主任委員欣：目前事實上是在做熱測試。"],["吳委員沛憶：是。"],["張代理主任委員欣：熱測試只做兩筒，目前已經裝了一筒，那一筒也運到貯存場址的定位，接下來他們會做第二筒，等到兩筒的熱測試做完，他們會做整體作業的檢討，然後提出運轉執照申請，然後我們會依照運轉執照申請的相關文件，來檢視是不是可以取得運轉執照。"],["吳委員沛憶：好的。因為這是我們第一次嘛，乾貯嘗試在熱測試當中，民眾也都很關心，所以我希望後續一定會有持續的監控等等相關資訊的蒐集。"],["張代理主任委員欣：是。"],["吳委員沛憶：希望也要務必的謹慎，作為後續實際操作經驗的參考。"],["張代理主任委員欣：我們一定會本於職責做好相關的管制作業。"],["吳委員沛憶：好。最後一點也想要跟張主委討論，就是核安會每年都要推動性別主流化，這也是行政院性平專案小組定期有在討論跟核管的，長期下來核安會的男女比例，目前全部的員工中，男性跟女性的比例是多少？我們手邊有沒有數字？"],["張代理主任委員欣：多少？我們應該是有數字，6：4。"],["吳委員沛憶：6：4，所以是……"],["張代理主任委員欣：差不多是等於40%。"],["吳委員沛憶：主管人員呢？男性跟女性的比例？"],["張代理主任委員欣：主管，我們人事主任……"],["吳委員沛憶：我幫你們看了一下，主管目前男女比例是4：1，所以我想還有努力的空間。最近看到歐洲的國際原子能總署，他們現在也在發起一個計畫跟影音人力平台，就是特別去支持核能領域的女性人才，這個可以給核安會來做參考，希望可以跟整體的行政部會一起往性別主流化的進程再往前推進。"],["張代理主任委員欣：好，我們繼續努力。"],["吳委員沛憶：好，謝謝，謝謝主席。"],["主席：代理主委請回，謝謝吳沛憶委員的質詢。","再來請陳培瑜委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":358,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-9","speakers":["范雲","洪孟楷","萬美玲","林宜瑾","林倩綺","張雅琳","柯志恩","葛如鈞","陳秀寳","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","陳培瑜","羅廷瑋","葉元之","吳春城"],"page_start":313,"meetingDate":["2024-11-20"],"gazette_id":"11310401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310401_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請核能安全委員會代理主任委員張欣列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查114年度中\n央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會及所屬單位預算案；三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有\n關核能安全委員會主管核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預算案；四、審查114年度行政法人國家\n原子能科技研究院預算案（第二案至第四案僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11310401_00005"}}}