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\"如果這個規範往下去看我們來看一下現場是不是真的都是這樣呢來看總體劑量的部分從2000年到2023年這20多年來我們看到人口數越來越多但是這張統計圖上所偵測到的總體劑量卻相對偏低我真的覺得怪怪尤其請主委注意08到19年這個數字請你稍微記一下我們來看下一張統計圖\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 314.292, \"end\": 314.512, \"score\": 0.806}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 314.512, \"end\": 315.633, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"範\"}, {\"word\": \"往\", \"start\": 315.633, \"end\": 315.833, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 315.833, \"end\": 316.033, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 316.033, \"end\": 316.193, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 316.193, \"end\": 316.373, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 316.373, \"end\": 316.673, \"score\": 0.803}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 316.673, \"end\": 316.773, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 316.773, \"end\": 316.813, \"score\": 0.486}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 316.813, \"end\": 317.794, \"score\": 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0.83}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 325.837, \"end\": 326.037, \"score\": 0.735}, {\"word\": \"口\", \"start\": 326.037, \"end\": 326.518, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"數\"}, {\"word\": \"越\", \"start\": 326.518, \"end\": 326.998, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"越\", \"start\": 326.998, \"end\": 327.278, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 327.278, \"end\": 327.618, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 327.618, \"end\": 327.838, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 327.838, \"end\": 328.999, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"張\"}, {\"word\": \"統\"}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"圖\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 328.999, \"end\": 329.239, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 329.239, \"end\": 329.759, \"score\": 0.773}, {\"word\": \"偵\"}, {\"word\": \"測\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 329.759, \"end\": 329.919, \"score\": 0.742}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 329.919, \"end\": 331.22, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"劑\"}, {\"word\": \"量\", \"start\": 331.22, \"end\": 331.84, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"卻\"}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 331.84, \"end\": 332.34, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"偏\", \"start\": 332.34, \"end\": 332.62, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"低\", \"start\": 332.62, \"end\": 333.121, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 333.121, \"end\": 333.301, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"真\", \"start\": 333.301, \"end\": 333.421, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 333.421, \"end\": 333.641, \"score\": 0.716}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 333.641, \"end\": 333.741, \"score\": 0.691}, {\"word\": \"怪\", \"start\": 333.741, \"end\": 333.941, \"score\": 0.753}, {\"word\": \"怪\", \"start\": 333.941, \"end\": 334.101, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"尤\", \"start\": 334.101, \"end\": 334.281, \"score\": 0.599}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 334.281, \"end\": 334.761, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 334.761, \"end\": 334.921, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 334.921, \"end\": 335.122, \"score\": 0.724}, {\"word\": \"注\", \"start\": 335.122, \"end\": 335.302, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 335.302, \"end\": 336.242, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"8\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 336.242, \"end\": 336.842, \"score\": 0.712}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 336.842, \"end\": 337.403, \"score\": 0.713}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"數\"}, {\"word\": \"字\", \"start\": 337.403, \"end\": 337.663, \"score\": 0.713}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 337.663, \"end\": 337.763, \"score\": 0.732}, {\"word\": \"稍\", \"start\": 337.763, \"end\": 337.923, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"微\", \"start\": 337.923, \"end\": 338.203, \"score\": 0.613}, {\"word\": \"記\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 338.203, \"end\": 338.303, \"score\": 0.822}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 338.303, \"end\": 338.483, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 338.483, \"end\": 338.663, \"score\": 0.542}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 338.663, \"end\": 338.903, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 338.903, \"end\": 339.043, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 339.043, \"end\": 339.063, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"張\"}, {\"word\": \"統\"}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"圖\"}]}, {\"start\": 340.544, \"end\": 349.238, \"text\": \"全國輻射工作人員近20年來看他們的平均劑量值也是逐漸下滑一樣請您注意08到19年下一張\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 340.544, \"end\": 341.025, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"輻\"}, {\"word\": \"射\", \"start\": 341.025, \"end\": 341.165, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 341.165, \"end\": 341.346, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 341.346, \"end\": 341.466, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 341.466, \"end\": 341.786, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"近\", \"start\": 341.786, \"end\": 342.628, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 342.628, \"end\": 343.128, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 343.128, \"end\": 343.99, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 343.99, \"end\": 344.31, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 344.31, \"end\": 344.691, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"平\", \"start\": 344.691, \"end\": 345.051, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"均\", \"start\": 345.051, \"end\": 345.592, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"劑\"}, {\"word\": \"量\", \"start\": 345.592, \"end\": 345.913, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"值\", \"start\": 345.913, \"end\": 346.273, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 346.273, \"end\": 346.554, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 346.554, \"end\": 346.774, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"逐\", \"start\": 346.774, \"end\": 347.155, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"漸\"}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 347.155, \"end\": 347.435, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"滑\", \"start\": 347.435, \"end\": 347.676, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 347.676, \"end\": 348.156, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 348.156, \"end\": 348.337, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"注\", \"start\": 348.337, \"end\": 348.517, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 348.517, \"end\": 348.617, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"8\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 348.617, \"end\": 348.838, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 348.838, \"end\": 349.038, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 349.038, \"end\": 349.218, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 349.218, \"end\": 349.238, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"張\"}]}, {\"start\": 351.98, \"end\": 370.806, \"text\": \"再到輻射工作人員的個人年紀量大於50或者是20毫西弗的人數近15年來08到19區域個位數或者是零以上這幾張我想要問如果這個數據是可信的那我們來看另外一個最近的新聞\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 351.98, \"end\": 352.1, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 352.1, \"end\": 352.48, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"輻\"}, {\"word\": \"射\", \"start\": 352.48, \"end\": 353.08, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 353.08, \"end\": 353.28, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 353.28, \"end\": 353.44, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 353.44, \"end\": 353.721, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 353.721, \"end\": 354.181, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 354.181, \"end\": 354.421, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 354.421, \"end\": 354.861, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"紀\"}, {\"word\": \"量\", \"start\": 354.861, \"end\": 355.181, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 355.181, \"end\": 355.801, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 355.801, \"end\": 356.121, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 356.121, \"end\": 356.281, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 356.281, \"end\": 356.441, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 356.441, \"end\": 357.642, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"毫\", \"start\": 357.642, \"end\": 357.842, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"西\", \"start\": 357.842, \"end\": 358.022, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"弗\", \"start\": 358.022, \"end\": 358.122, \"score\": 0.766}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 358.122, \"end\": 358.222, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 358.222, \"end\": 359.062, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"數\"}, {\"word\": \"近\", \"start\": 359.062, \"end\": 359.702, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 359.702, \"end\": 360.503, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"8\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 360.503, \"end\": 361.723, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"區\"}, {\"word\": \"域\", \"start\": 361.723, \"end\": 362.243, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 362.243, \"end\": 362.763, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"數\"}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 362.763, \"end\": 362.883, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 362.883, \"end\": 363.023, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 363.023, \"end\": 363.263, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"零\", \"start\": 363.263, \"end\": 364.424, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 364.424, \"end\": 364.564, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 364.564, \"end\": 365.544, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"幾\"}, {\"word\": \"張\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 365.544, \"end\": 365.704, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 365.704, \"end\": 366.004, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 366.004, \"end\": 366.224, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 366.224, \"end\": 366.424, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 366.424, \"end\": 367.445, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"數\"}, {\"word\": \"據\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 367.445, \"end\": 367.705, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 367.705, \"end\": 368.045, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"信\", \"start\": 368.045, \"end\": 368.345, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 368.345, \"end\": 368.745, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 368.745, \"end\": 368.945, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 368.945, \"end\": 369.165, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 369.165, \"end\": 369.425, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"另\", \"start\": 369.425, \"end\": 369.625, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 369.625, \"end\": 369.785, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 369.785, \"end\": 370.045, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 370.045, \"end\": 370.306, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"近\", \"start\": 370.306, \"end\": 370.566, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 370.566, \"end\": 370.786, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"新\", \"start\": 370.786, \"end\": 370.806, \"score\": 0.738}, {\"word\": \"聞\"}]}, {\"start\": 372.046, \"end\": 393.872, \"text\": \"在前面圖卡我剛特別提醒主委08到19年那整體的劑量相對偏低人員劑量數值也下滑甚至是輻射工作人員個人的年劑量都低於50跟20毫西弗看起來這個數字很安全啊這個統計數字也很漂亮可是我們真的懷疑會不會有一些黑數是你們沒有掌握跟我們所不知道的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 372.046, \"end\": 372.206, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 372.206, \"end\": 372.346, \"score\": 0.621}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 372.346, \"end\": 372.726, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"圖\"}, {\"word\": \"卡\", \"start\": 372.726, \"end\": 372.906, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 372.906, \"end\": 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\"start\": 582.007, \"end\": 582.167, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"附\", \"start\": 582.167, \"end\": 582.267, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"屬\"}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 582.267, \"end\": 582.287, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"預\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,857 --> 00:00:07,399\n代理主委及國園院院長\n\n2\n00:00:17,735 --> 00:00:44,114\n委員好好你好喔來我們來看一下我想今天就SMR的部分我想要快速跟國人院還有代理主委這邊討論喔其實我想今天有非常多委員都已經關心我就提出幾個簡單的問題目前我們看到在你們的業務報告資料裡面呢國人院有持續關注國際第四代反應器也就是還有小型模組化反應器的技術發展而且我們看到你們適當的投入資源不管是人力或者是預算\n\n3\n00:00:44,594 --> 00:01:12,113\n那也就是說就國研院的角度目前你們是怎麼看待你們目前投入的經費跟這個研究跟你們想像未來的可能性是不是請國研院的院長好謝謝報告委員我們事實上繼身為國家的一個研究機構我們隨時都會注意前瞻的研究這個我認同我們在三年前就開始針對美國已經核准過的管制單位核准的這個\n\n4\n00:01:14,114 --> 00:01:16,575\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會及所屬單位預算案。\n\n5\n00:01:31,924 --> 00:01:56,444\n監督單位核安會也撥了100萬給我們做這樣的研究今年明年開始就是114年我們編了1543萬做SMR相關的研究針對核心物理緊急疏散還有這個熱流分析我們做一個評估同時盤點我們現在所用的一些程式跟\n\n6\n00:01:57,205 --> 00:02:00,427\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會及所屬單位預\n\n7\n00:02:22,298 --> 00:02:22,398\n此外﹐\n\n8\n00:02:41,910 --> 00:03:07,823\n相較於大型反應爐它真的有更加經濟嗎?其實也有不同的學者不同的看法認為降低成本通常不會超過百分之三十再來往下看還有它會比反應爐更安全嗎?其實也有人提出相關疑議認為說我投影片這邊有寫被動安全功能並非總是有效特別遭遇強震、洪患或野火等極端事件那我想強震這個絕對是我們台灣要避免的事情好再來下一個\n\n9\n00:03:09,124 --> 00:03:26,564\n放射性的廢棄物會比較少嗎?在小型模組這個問題上其實也是有專家學者提出疑議了也就是不必然必然是這樣再來下一個它的安全性難道好到不需要監控跟維護嗎?或者是SMS使用的燃料會更少更有效率嗎?也就是說\n\n10\n00:03:27,105 --> 00:03:49,870\n如果在你們的研究當中你們其實也有反映過類似的問題也看到類似的問題參考過很多國際專家學者那我想因為今天時間有限那這是比較專業的問題我們就不在這邊討論但是我想立法院站在監督的角度還是要提出提醒所以我最後有一個小結也要拜託你們積極的研究其實已經有很多專家學者提出尤其在台灣我們之前參加過一個線上會議\n\n11\n00:03:51,630 --> 00:04:17,315\n在線上會議當中的專家學者是來自美國優斯科學家聯盟核電安全主任他提醒大家考量小型模組化反應爐的設計台灣必須謹慎的思考充分評估它的安全性而這個評估的來源可能就來自於我剛剛講的五大面向的問題那當然我們絕對支持國家站在科技發展角度我們做這樣的研究但是我想善意的提醒還是要拜託你們要強加的注意好嗎好是的\n\n12\n00:04:18,895 --> 00:04:19,315\n接下來要談辦公室關心的輻射防護相關政策經濟檢討\n\n13\n00:04:48,975 --> 00:05:12,191\n可是核安會給我們的資料裡面說職業暴露的劑量限值是每連續5年週期的有效劑量不得超過100毫西弗也就是平均每一年不得超過20毫西弗而且你們自己有說任何單一年內之有效劑量不得超過50毫西弗實務上長期以來我們大家都認為這是一個很重要的規範那我們現在想問\n\n14\n00:05:14,292 --> 00:05:39,063\n如果這個規範往下去看我們來看一下現場是不是真的都是這樣呢來看總體劑量的部分從2000年到2023年這20多年來我們看到人口數越來越多但是這張統計圖上所偵測到的總體劑量卻相對偏低我真的覺得怪怪尤其請主委注意08到19年這個數字請你稍微記一下我們來看下一張統計圖\n\n15\n00:05:40,544 --> 00:05:49,238\n全國輻射工作人員近20年來看他們的平均劑量值也是逐漸下滑一樣請您注意08到19年下一張\n\n16\n00:05:51,980 --> 00:06:10,806\n再到輻射工作人員的個人年紀量大於50或者是20毫西弗的人數近15年來08到19區域個位數或者是零以上這幾張我想要問如果這個數據是可信的那我們來看另外一個最近的新聞\n\n17\n00:06:12,046 --> 00:06:33,872\n在前面圖卡我剛特別提醒主委08到19年那整體的劑量相對偏低人員劑量數值也下滑甚至是輻射工作人員個人的年劑量都低於50跟20毫西弗看起來這個數字很安全啊這個統計數字也很漂亮可是我們真的懷疑會不會有一些黑數是你們沒有掌握跟我們所不知道的\n\n18\n00:06:34,272 --> 00:06:49,381\n我們來看一下這個新聞這一家工程公司在2019年被揭露有造假計量配章的資料那這間公司在今年就在今年的7月被高雄地檢署他以過失致死罪起訴\n\n19\n00:06:50,442 --> 00:07:05,307\n高雄地檢署的資料我寫在頭影片上我就念給主委聽他說為避免該人員劑量配張所偵測的輻射量超標致使工作人員必須停止作業負責人涉嫌從民國97年3月起到108年1月止\n\n20\n00:07:08,388 --> 00:07:20,036\n只是公司的員工在進行檢測作業的時候不要佩戴劑量配章導致該公司無性員工長期暴露在過量的輻射量而罹患急性白血症死亡。\n\n21\n00:07:21,690 --> 00:07:42,999\n這就是我剛剛為什麼說如果你們的統計數字這麼漂亮但是為什麼會出現這個事情核安會到底有多少的把握剛剛那些漂亮的數字是真的有反映到現場相關從業人員他們的環境如果你們這麼有把握為什麼還會出現這個事情而且這還是現場有人揭露的會不會有沒有人揭露的資料我們來看下一張\n\n22\n00:07:44,318 --> 00:07:49,581\n根據核安會你們在給我們的資料從04年針對業者裁罰案件核安會的公開資料有違反游離輻射防護法的有95件受罰業者有125家那這裡面包含哪些呢沒有對該人員實施個別計量監測還有沒有依照規定劃定管制區實施維理管制\n\n23\n00:08:05,131 --> 00:08:25,820\n或者是沒有依照相關規定實施在職輻射工作人員定期健康檢查所以看起來你們因著這些有了剛剛那個漂亮的統計數字但是這真的可以反映到現實嗎我要一再的問會不會有很多黑數很多潛在的現場的職災案例其實根本沒有反映到主委你怎麼看這件事情\n\n24\n00:08:28,001 --> 00:08:57,181\n我想那個剛才的案例其實也就是提醒我們我們在後續要做加強其實有這個案例之後我們在服防組的部分我們在不疫警這個稽查部分也做加強資料比對上也做加強因為我們之前其實有做視察可是確實他們沒有反映出來那但是由於這個案例的話我們針對我們的管制作業我們做了一些強化那另外我們現在正在進行的修法作業事實上也會賦予業者更多的責任\n\n25\n00:08:57,301 --> 00:08:57,321\n衆議院議員\n\n26\n00:09:39,085 --> 00:09:42,287\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會主管核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5857\t7399\t代理主委及國園院院長\n17735\t44114\t委員好好你好喔來我們來看一下我想今天就SMR的部分我想要快速跟國人院還有代理主委這邊討論喔其實我想今天有非常多委員都已經關心我就提出幾個簡單的問題目前我們看到在你們的業務報告資料裡面呢國人院有持續關注國際第四代反應器也就是還有小型模組化反應器的技術發展而且我們看到你們適當的投入資源不管是人力或者是預算\n44594\t72113\t那也就是說就國研院的角度目前你們是怎麼看待你們目前投入的經費跟這個研究跟你們想像未來的可能性是不是請國研院的院長好謝謝報告委員我們事實上繼身為國家的一個研究機構我們隨時都會注意前瞻的研究這個我認同我們在三年前就開始針對美國已經核准過的管制單位核准的這個\n74114\t76575\t三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會及所屬單位預算案。\n91924\t116444\t監督單位核安會也撥了100萬給我們做這樣的研究今年明年開始就是114年我們編了1543萬做SMR相關的研究針對核心物理緊急疏散還有這個熱流分析我們做一個評估同時盤點我們現在所用的一些程式跟\n117205\t120427\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會及所屬單位預\n142298\t142398\t此外﹐\n161910\t187823\t相較於大型反應爐它真的有更加經濟嗎?其實也有不同的學者不同的看法認為降低成本通常不會超過百分之三十再來往下看還有它會比反應爐更安全嗎?其實也有人提出相關疑議認為說我投影片這邊有寫被動安全功能並非總是有效特別遭遇強震、洪患或野火等極端事件那我想強震這個絕對是我們台灣要避免的事情好再來下一個\n189124\t206564\t放射性的廢棄物會比較少嗎?在小型模組這個問題上其實也是有專家學者提出疑議了也就是不必然必然是這樣再來下一個它的安全性難道好到不需要監控跟維護嗎?或者是SMS使用的燃料會更少更有效率嗎?也就是說\n207105\t229870\t如果在你們的研究當中你們其實也有反映過類似的問題也看到類似的問題參考過很多國際專家學者那我想因為今天時間有限那這是比較專業的問題我們就不在這邊討論但是我想立法院站在監督的角度還是要提出提醒所以我最後有一個小結也要拜託你們積極的研究其實已經有很多專家學者提出尤其在台灣我們之前參加過一個線上會議\n231630\t257315\t在線上會議當中的專家學者是來自美國優斯科學家聯盟核電安全主任他提醒大家考量小型模組化反應爐的設計台灣必須謹慎的思考充分評估它的安全性而這個評估的來源可能就來自於我剛剛講的五大面向的問題那當然我們絕對支持國家站在科技發展角度我們做這樣的研究但是我想善意的提醒還是要拜託你們要強加的注意好嗎好 是的\n258895\t259315\t接下來要談辦公室關心的輻射防護相關政策經濟檢討\n288975\t312191\t可是核安會給我們的資料裡面說職業暴露的劑量限值是每連續5年週期的有效劑量不得超過100毫西弗也就是平均每一年不得超過20毫西弗而且你們自己有說任何單一年內之有效劑量不得超過50毫西弗實務上長期以來我們大家都認為這是一個很重要的規範那我們現在想問\n314292\t339063\t如果這個規範往下去看我們來看一下現場是不是真的都是這樣呢來看總體劑量的部分從2000年到2023年這20多年來我們看到人口數越來越多但是這張統計圖上所偵測到的總體劑量卻相對偏低我真的覺得怪怪尤其請主委注意08到19年這個數字請你稍微記一下我們來看下一張統計圖\n340544\t349238\t全國輻射工作人員近20年來看他們的平均劑量值也是逐漸下滑一樣請您注意08到19年下一張\n351980\t370806\t再到輻射工作人員的個人年紀量大於50或者是20毫西弗的人數近15年來08到19區域個位數或者是零以上這幾張我想要問如果這個數據是可信的那我們來看另外一個最近的新聞\n372046\t393872\t在前面圖卡我剛特別提醒主委08到19年那整體的劑量相對偏低人員劑量數值也下滑甚至是輻射工作人員個人的年劑量都低於50跟20毫西弗看起來這個數字很安全啊這個統計數字也很漂亮可是我們真的懷疑會不會有一些黑數是你們沒有掌握跟我們所不知道的\n394272\t409381\t我們來看一下這個新聞這一家工程公司在2019年被揭露有造假計量配章的資料那這間公司在今年就在今年的7月被高雄地檢署他以過失致死罪起訴\n410442\t425307\t高雄地檢署的資料我寫在頭影片上我就念給主委聽他說為避免該人員劑量配張所偵測的輻射量超標致使工作人員必須停止作業負責人涉嫌從民國97年3月起到108年1月止\n428388\t440036\t只是公司的員工在進行檢測作業的時候不要佩戴劑量配章導致該公司無性員工長期暴露在過量的輻射量而罹患急性白血症死亡。\n441690\t462999\t這就是我剛剛為什麼說如果你們的統計數字這麼漂亮但是為什麼會出現這個事情核安會到底有多少的把握剛剛那些漂亮的數字是真的有反映到現場相關從業人員他們的環境如果你們這麼有把握為什麼還會出現這個事情而且這還是現場有人揭露的會不會有沒有人揭露的資料我們來看下一張\n464318\t469581\t根據核安會你們在給我們的資料從04年針對業者裁罰案件核安會的公開資料有違反游離輻射防護法的有95件受罰業者有125家那這裡面包含哪些呢沒有對該人員實施個別計量監測還有沒有依照規定劃定管制區實施維理管制\n485131\t505820\t或者是沒有依照相關規定實施在職輻射工作人員定期健康檢查所以看起來你們因著這些有了剛剛那個漂亮的統計數字但是這真的可以反映到現實嗎我要一再的問會不會有很多黑數很多潛在的現場的職災案例其實根本沒有反映到主委你怎麼看這件事情\n508001\t537181\t我想那個剛才的案例其實也就是提醒我們我們在後續要做加強其實有這個案例之後我們在服防組的部分我們在不疫警這個稽查部分也做加強資料比對上也做加強因為我們之前其實有做視察可是確實他們沒有反映出來那但是由於這個案例的話我們針對我們的管制作業我們做了一些強化那另外我們現在正在進行的修法作業事實上也會賦予業者更多的責任\n537301\t537321\t衆議院議員\n552875\t578985\t議員議員議員議員\n579085\t582287\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會主管核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預\n","txt":"代理主委及國園院院長\n委員好好你好喔來我們來看一下我想今天就SMR的部分我想要快速跟國人院還有代理主委這邊討論喔其實我想今天有非常多委員都已經關心我就提出幾個簡單的問題目前我們看到在你們的業務報告資料裡面呢國人院有持續關注國際第四代反應器也就是還有小型模組化反應器的技術發展而且我們看到你們適當的投入資源不管是人力或者是預算\n那也就是說就國研院的角度目前你們是怎麼看待你們目前投入的經費跟這個研究跟你們想像未來的可能性是不是請國研院的院長好謝謝報告委員我們事實上繼身為國家的一個研究機構我們隨時都會注意前瞻的研究這個我認同我們在三年前就開始針對美國已經核准過的管制單位核准的這個\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會及所屬單位預算案。\n監督單位核安會也撥了100萬給我們做這樣的研究今年明年開始就是114年我們編了1543萬做SMR相關的研究針對核心物理緊急疏散還有這個熱流分析我們做一個評估同時盤點我們現在所用的一些程式跟\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會及所屬單位預\n此外﹐\n相較於大型反應爐它真的有更加經濟嗎?其實也有不同的學者不同的看法認為降低成本通常不會超過百分之三十再來往下看還有它會比反應爐更安全嗎?其實也有人提出相關疑議認為說我投影片這邊有寫被動安全功能並非總是有效特別遭遇強震、洪患或野火等極端事件那我想強震這個絕對是我們台灣要避免的事情好再來下一個\n放射性的廢棄物會比較少嗎?在小型模組這個問題上其實也是有專家學者提出疑議了也就是不必然必然是這樣再來下一個它的安全性難道好到不需要監控跟維護嗎?或者是SMS使用的燃料會更少更有效率嗎?也就是說\n如果在你們的研究當中你們其實也有反映過類似的問題也看到類似的問題參考過很多國際專家學者那我想因為今天時間有限那這是比較專業的問題我們就不在這邊討論但是我想立法院站在監督的角度還是要提出提醒所以我最後有一個小結也要拜託你們積極的研究其實已經有很多專家學者提出尤其在台灣我們之前參加過一個線上會議\n在線上會議當中的專家學者是來自美國優斯科學家聯盟核電安全主任他提醒大家考量小型模組化反應爐的設計台灣必須謹慎的思考充分評估它的安全性而這個評估的來源可能就來自於我剛剛講的五大面向的問題那當然我們絕對支持國家站在科技發展角度我們做這樣的研究但是我想善意的提醒還是要拜託你們要強加的注意好嗎好 是的\n接下來要談辦公室關心的輻射防護相關政策經濟檢討\n可是核安會給我們的資料裡面說職業暴露的劑量限值是每連續5年週期的有效劑量不得超過100毫西弗也就是平均每一年不得超過20毫西弗而且你們自己有說任何單一年內之有效劑量不得超過50毫西弗實務上長期以來我們大家都認為這是一個很重要的規範那我們現在想問\n如果這個規範往下去看我們來看一下現場是不是真的都是這樣呢來看總體劑量的部分從2000年到2023年這20多年來我們看到人口數越來越多但是這張統計圖上所偵測到的總體劑量卻相對偏低我真的覺得怪怪尤其請主委注意08到19年這個數字請你稍微記一下我們來看下一張統計圖\n全國輻射工作人員近20年來看他們的平均劑量值也是逐漸下滑一樣請您注意08到19年下一張\n再到輻射工作人員的個人年紀量大於50或者是20毫西弗的人數近15年來08到19區域個位數或者是零以上這幾張我想要問如果這個數據是可信的那我們來看另外一個最近的新聞\n在前面圖卡我剛特別提醒主委08到19年那整體的劑量相對偏低人員劑量數值也下滑甚至是輻射工作人員個人的年劑量都低於50跟20毫西弗看起來這個數字很安全啊這個統計數字也很漂亮可是我們真的懷疑會不會有一些黑數是你們沒有掌握跟我們所不知道的\n我們來看一下這個新聞這一家工程公司在2019年被揭露有造假計量配章的資料那這間公司在今年就在今年的7月被高雄地檢署他以過失致死罪起訴\n高雄地檢署的資料我寫在頭影片上我就念給主委聽他說為避免該人員劑量配張所偵測的輻射量超標致使工作人員必須停止作業負責人涉嫌從民國97年3月起到108年1月止\n只是公司的員工在進行檢測作業的時候不要佩戴劑量配章導致該公司無性員工長期暴露在過量的輻射量而罹患急性白血症死亡。\n這就是我剛剛為什麼說如果你們的統計數字這麼漂亮但是為什麼會出現這個事情核安會到底有多少的把握剛剛那些漂亮的數字是真的有反映到現場相關從業人員他們的環境如果你們這麼有把握為什麼還會出現這個事情而且這還是現場有人揭露的會不會有沒有人揭露的資料我們來看下一張\n根據核安會你們在給我們的資料從04年針對業者裁罰案件核安會的公開資料有違反游離輻射防護法的有95件受罰業者有125家那這裡面包含哪些呢沒有對該人員實施個別計量監測還有沒有依照規定劃定管制區實施維理管制\n或者是沒有依照相關規定實施在職輻射工作人員定期健康檢查所以看起來你們因著這些有了剛剛那個漂亮的統計數字但是這真的可以反映到現實嗎我要一再的問會不會有很多黑數很多潛在的現場的職災案例其實根本沒有反映到主委你怎麼看這件事情\n我想那個剛才的案例其實也就是提醒我們我們在後續要做加強其實有這個案例之後我們在服防組的部分我們在不疫警這個稽查部分也做加強資料比對上也做加強因為我們之前其實有做視察可是確實他們沒有反映出來那但是由於這個案例的話我們針對我們的管制作業我們做了一些強化那另外我們現在正在進行的修法作業事實上也會賦予業者更多的責任\n衆議院議員\n議員議員議員議員\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會主管核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.857 --> 00:07.399\n代理主委及國園院院長\n\n00:17.735 --> 00:44.114\n委員好好你好喔來我們來看一下我想今天就SMR的部分我想要快速跟國人院還有代理主委這邊討論喔其實我想今天有非常多委員都已經關心我就提出幾個簡單的問題目前我們看到在你們的業務報告資料裡面呢國人院有持續關注國際第四代反應器也就是還有小型模組化反應器的技術發展而且我們看到你們適當的投入資源不管是人力或者是預算\n\n00:44.594 --> 01:12.113\n那也就是說就國研院的角度目前你們是怎麼看待你們目前投入的經費跟這個研究跟你們想像未來的可能性是不是請國研院的院長好謝謝報告委員我們事實上繼身為國家的一個研究機構我們隨時都會注意前瞻的研究這個我認同我們在三年前就開始針對美國已經核准過的管制單位核准的這個\n\n01:14.114 --> 01:16.575\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會及所屬單位預算案。\n\n01:31.924 --> 01:56.444\n監督單位核安會也撥了100萬給我們做這樣的研究今年明年開始就是114年我們編了1543萬做SMR相關的研究針對核心物理緊急疏散還有這個熱流分析我們做一個評估同時盤點我們現在所用的一些程式跟\n\n01:57.205 --> 02:00.427\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會及所屬單位預\n\n02:22.298 --> 02:22.398\n此外﹐\n\n02:41.910 --> 03:07.823\n相較於大型反應爐它真的有更加經濟嗎?其實也有不同的學者不同的看法認為降低成本通常不會超過百分之三十再來往下看還有它會比反應爐更安全嗎?其實也有人提出相關疑議認為說我投影片這邊有寫被動安全功能並非總是有效特別遭遇強震、洪患或野火等極端事件那我想強震這個絕對是我們台灣要避免的事情好再來下一個\n\n03:09.124 --> 03:26.564\n放射性的廢棄物會比較少嗎?在小型模組這個問題上其實也是有專家學者提出疑議了也就是不必然必然是這樣再來下一個它的安全性難道好到不需要監控跟維護嗎?或者是SMS使用的燃料會更少更有效率嗎?也就是說\n\n03:27.105 --> 03:49.870\n如果在你們的研究當中你們其實也有反映過類似的問題也看到類似的問題參考過很多國際專家學者那我想因為今天時間有限那這是比較專業的問題我們就不在這邊討論但是我想立法院站在監督的角度還是要提出提醒所以我最後有一個小結也要拜託你們積極的研究其實已經有很多專家學者提出尤其在台灣我們之前參加過一個線上會議\n\n03:51.630 --> 04:17.315\n在線上會議當中的專家學者是來自美國優斯科學家聯盟核電安全主任他提醒大家考量小型模組化反應爐的設計台灣必須謹慎的思考充分評估它的安全性而這個評估的來源可能就來自於我剛剛講的五大面向的問題那當然我們絕對支持國家站在科技發展角度我們做這樣的研究但是我想善意的提醒還是要拜託你們要強加的注意好嗎好是的\n\n04:18.895 --> 04:19.315\n接下來要談辦公室關心的輻射防護相關政策經濟檢討\n\n04:48.975 --> 05:12.191\n可是核安會給我們的資料裡面說職業暴露的劑量限值是每連續5年週期的有效劑量不得超過100毫西弗也就是平均每一年不得超過20毫西弗而且你們自己有說任何單一年內之有效劑量不得超過50毫西弗實務上長期以來我們大家都認為這是一個很重要的規範那我們現在想問\n\n05:14.292 --> 05:39.063\n如果這個規範往下去看我們來看一下現場是不是真的都是這樣呢來看總體劑量的部分從2000年到2023年這20多年來我們看到人口數越來越多但是這張統計圖上所偵測到的總體劑量卻相對偏低我真的覺得怪怪尤其請主委注意08到19年這個數字請你稍微記一下我們來看下一張統計圖\n\n05:40.544 --> 05:49.238\n全國輻射工作人員近20年來看他們的平均劑量值也是逐漸下滑一樣請您注意08到19年下一張\n\n05:51.980 --> 06:10.806\n再到輻射工作人員的個人年紀量大於50或者是20毫西弗的人數近15年來08到19區域個位數或者是零以上這幾張我想要問如果這個數據是可信的那我們來看另外一個最近的新聞\n\n06:12.046 --> 06:33.872\n在前面圖卡我剛特別提醒主委08到19年那整體的劑量相對偏低人員劑量數值也下滑甚至是輻射工作人員個人的年劑量都低於50跟20毫西弗看起來這個數字很安全啊這個統計數字也很漂亮可是我們真的懷疑會不會有一些黑數是你們沒有掌握跟我們所不知道的\n\n06:34.272 --> 06:49.381\n我們來看一下這個新聞這一家工程公司在2019年被揭露有造假計量配章的資料那這間公司在今年就在今年的7月被高雄地檢署他以過失致死罪起訴\n\n06:50.442 --> 07:05.307\n高雄地檢署的資料我寫在頭影片上我就念給主委聽他說為避免該人員劑量配張所偵測的輻射量超標致使工作人員必須停止作業負責人涉嫌從民國97年3月起到108年1月止\n\n07:08.388 --> 07:20.036\n只是公司的員工在進行檢測作業的時候不要佩戴劑量配章導致該公司無性員工長期暴露在過量的輻射量而罹患急性白血症死亡。\n\n07:21.690 --> 07:42.999\n這就是我剛剛為什麼說如果你們的統計數字這麼漂亮但是為什麼會出現這個事情核安會到底有多少的把握剛剛那些漂亮的數字是真的有反映到現場相關從業人員他們的環境如果你們這麼有把握為什麼還會出現這個事情而且這還是現場有人揭露的會不會有沒有人揭露的資料我們來看下一張\n\n07:44.318 --> 07:49.581\n根據核安會你們在給我們的資料從04年針對業者裁罰案件核安會的公開資料有違反游離輻射防護法的有95件受罰業者有125家那這裡面包含哪些呢沒有對該人員實施個別計量監測還有沒有依照規定劃定管制區實施維理管制\n\n08:05.131 --> 08:25.820\n或者是沒有依照相關規定實施在職輻射工作人員定期健康檢查所以看起來你們因著這些有了剛剛那個漂亮的統計數字但是這真的可以反映到現實嗎我要一再的問會不會有很多黑數很多潛在的現場的職災案例其實根本沒有反映到主委你怎麼看這件事情\n\n08:28.001 --> 08:57.181\n我想那個剛才的案例其實也就是提醒我們我們在後續要做加強其實有這個案例之後我們在服防組的部分我們在不疫警這個稽查部分也做加強資料比對上也做加強因為我們之前其實有做視察可是確實他們沒有反映出來那但是由於這個案例的話我們針對我們的管制作業我們做了一些強化那另外我們現在正在進行的修法作業事實上也會賦予業者更多的責任\n\n08:57.301 --> 08:57.321\n衆議院議員\n\n09:39.085 --> 09:42.287\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會主管核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.857,"end":7.399,"text":"代理主委及國園院院長"},{"start":17.735,"end":44.114,"text":"委員好好你好喔來我們來看一下我想今天就SMR的部分我想要快速跟國人院還有代理主委這邊討論喔其實我想今天有非常多委員都已經關心我就提出幾個簡單的問題目前我們看到在你們的業務報告資料裡面呢國人院有持續關注國際第四代反應器也就是還有小型模組化反應器的技術發展而且我們看到你們適當的投入資源不管是人力或者是預算"},{"start":44.594,"end":72.113,"text":"那也就是說就國研院的角度目前你們是怎麼看待你們目前投入的經費跟這個研究跟你們想像未來的可能性是不是請國研院的院長好謝謝報告委員我們事實上繼身為國家的一個研究機構我們隨時都會注意前瞻的研究這個我認同我們在三年前就開始針對美國已經核准過的管制單位核准的這個"},{"start":74.114,"end":76.575,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會及所屬單位預算案。"},{"start":91.924,"end":116.444,"text":"監督單位核安會也撥了100萬給我們做這樣的研究今年明年開始就是114年我們編了1543萬做SMR相關的研究針對核心物理緊急疏散還有這個熱流分析我們做一個評估同時盤點我們現在所用的一些程式跟"},{"start":117.205,"end":120.427,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會及所屬單位預"},{"start":142.298,"end":142.398,"text":"此外﹐"},{"start":161.91,"end":187.823,"text":"相較於大型反應爐它真的有更加經濟嗎?其實也有不同的學者不同的看法認為降低成本通常不會超過百分之三十再來往下看還有它會比反應爐更安全嗎?其實也有人提出相關疑議認為說我投影片這邊有寫被動安全功能並非總是有效特別遭遇強震、洪患或野火等極端事件那我想強震這個絕對是我們台灣要避免的事情好再來下一個"},{"start":189.124,"end":206.564,"text":"放射性的廢棄物會比較少嗎?在小型模組這個問題上其實也是有專家學者提出疑議了也就是不必然必然是這樣再來下一個它的安全性難道好到不需要監控跟維護嗎?或者是SMS使用的燃料會更少更有效率嗎?也就是說"},{"start":207.105,"end":229.87,"text":"如果在你們的研究當中你們其實也有反映過類似的問題也看到類似的問題參考過很多國際專家學者那我想因為今天時間有限那這是比較專業的問題我們就不在這邊討論但是我想立法院站在監督的角度還是要提出提醒所以我最後有一個小結也要拜託你們積極的研究其實已經有很多專家學者提出尤其在台灣我們之前參加過一個線上會議"},{"start":231.63,"end":257.315,"text":"在線上會議當中的專家學者是來自美國優斯科學家聯盟核電安全主任他提醒大家考量小型模組化反應爐的設計台灣必須謹慎的思考充分評估它的安全性而這個評估的來源可能就來自於我剛剛講的五大面向的問題那當然我們絕對支持國家站在科技發展角度我們做這樣的研究但是我想善意的提醒還是要拜託你們要強加的注意好嗎好 是的"},{"start":258.895,"end":259.315,"text":"接下來要談辦公室關心的輻射防護相關政策經濟檢討"},{"start":288.975,"end":312.191,"text":"可是核安會給我們的資料裡面說職業暴露的劑量限值是每連續5年週期的有效劑量不得超過100毫西弗也就是平均每一年不得超過20毫西弗而且你們自己有說任何單一年內之有效劑量不得超過50毫西弗實務上長期以來我們大家都認為這是一個很重要的規範那我們現在想問"},{"start":314.292,"end":339.063,"text":"如果這個規範往下去看我們來看一下現場是不是真的都是這樣呢來看總體劑量的部分從2000年到2023年這20多年來我們看到人口數越來越多但是這張統計圖上所偵測到的總體劑量卻相對偏低我真的覺得怪怪尤其請主委注意08到19年這個數字請你稍微記一下我們來看下一張統計圖"},{"start":340.544,"end":349.238,"text":"全國輻射工作人員近20年來看他們的平均劑量值也是逐漸下滑一樣請您注意08到19年下一張"},{"start":351.98,"end":370.806,"text":"再到輻射工作人員的個人年紀量大於50或者是20毫西弗的人數近15年來08到19區域個位數或者是零以上這幾張我想要問如果這個數據是可信的那我們來看另外一個最近的新聞"},{"start":372.046,"end":393.872,"text":"在前面圖卡我剛特別提醒主委08到19年那整體的劑量相對偏低人員劑量數值也下滑甚至是輻射工作人員個人的年劑量都低於50跟20毫西弗看起來這個數字很安全啊這個統計數字也很漂亮可是我們真的懷疑會不會有一些黑數是你們沒有掌握跟我們所不知道的"},{"start":394.272,"end":409.381,"text":"我們來看一下這個新聞這一家工程公司在2019年被揭露有造假計量配章的資料那這間公司在今年就在今年的7月被高雄地檢署他以過失致死罪起訴"},{"start":410.442,"end":425.307,"text":"高雄地檢署的資料我寫在頭影片上我就念給主委聽他說為避免該人員劑量配張所偵測的輻射量超標致使工作人員必須停止作業負責人涉嫌從民國97年3月起到108年1月止"},{"start":428.388,"end":440.036,"text":"只是公司的員工在進行檢測作業的時候不要佩戴劑量配章導致該公司無性員工長期暴露在過量的輻射量而罹患急性白血症死亡。"},{"start":441.69,"end":462.999,"text":"這就是我剛剛為什麼說如果你們的統計數字這麼漂亮但是為什麼會出現這個事情核安會到底有多少的把握剛剛那些漂亮的數字是真的有反映到現場相關從業人員他們的環境如果你們這麼有把握為什麼還會出現這個事情而且這還是現場有人揭露的會不會有沒有人揭露的資料我們來看下一張"},{"start":464.318,"end":469.581,"text":"根據核安會你們在給我們的資料從04年針對業者裁罰案件核安會的公開資料有違反游離輻射防護法的有95件受罰業者有125家那這裡面包含哪些呢沒有對該人員實施個別計量監測還有沒有依照規定劃定管制區實施維理管制"},{"start":485.131,"end":505.82,"text":"或者是沒有依照相關規定實施在職輻射工作人員定期健康檢查所以看起來你們因著這些有了剛剛那個漂亮的統計數字但是這真的可以反映到現實嗎我要一再的問會不會有很多黑數很多潛在的現場的職災案例其實根本沒有反映到主委你怎麼看這件事情"},{"start":508.001,"end":537.181,"text":"我想那個剛才的案例其實也就是提醒我們我們在後續要做加強其實有這個案例之後我們在服防組的部分我們在不疫警這個稽查部分也做加強資料比對上也做加強因為我們之前其實有做視察可是確實他們沒有反映出來那但是由於這個案例的話我們針對我們的管制作業我們做了一些強化那另外我們現在正在進行的修法作業事實上也會賦予業者更多的責任"},{"start":537.301,"end":537.321,"text":"衆議院議員"},{"start":552.875,"end":578.985,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":579.085,"end":582.287,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會主管核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":516,"blocks":[["陳委員培瑜：（11時8分）謝謝主席，有請代理主委還有國原院院長，謝謝。"],["主席：有請代理主委跟國原院院長。"],["張代理主任委員欣：委員好。"],["陳委員培瑜：您好。我們來看一下，今天就SMRs的部分，我想要快速跟國原院還有代理主委討論，今天有非常多委員都已經關心，我就提出幾個簡單的問題，目前我們看到在你們的業務報告資料裡面，國原院有持續關注國際第四代反應器，還有小型模組化反應器的技術發展，而且看到你們適當的投入資源，不管是人力或預算，也就是說就國原院的角度，目前你們是怎麼看待目前投入的經費跟研究，跟你們想像未來的可能性？"],["張代理主任委員欣：是不是請國原院的院長。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，謝謝。"],["高院長梓木：報告委員，事實上身為國家的一個研究機構，我們隨時都會注意前瞻的研究。"],["陳委員培瑜：嗯，這個我認同。"],["高院長梓木：我們在3年前就開始針對美國已經核准過的、管制單位核准過的NuScale SMR來做一千多頁的一個安全評估報告，我們找了25位同仁全力……"],["陳委員培瑜：對不起，25位什麼？"],["高院長梓木：25位原能所的同仁去研究這個，今年等於是我們投入的第3年，去年也承蒙監督單位核安會撥了100萬給我們做這樣的研究，從明（114）年開始，我們編了1,543萬做SMR相關的研究，針對核心物理、緊急疏散還有熱流分析，我們做一個評估，同時盤點我們現在所用的一些程式，因為SMR是第四代，所以有些程式還是要一些改變，所以我們在盤點這一些，如果說將來國家有需要，我們就要把工具準備好。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，這樣我明白了，根據您的說法，也就是按照國外已經有在發展的相關內容，對嗎？我們做很多比較像是reference的整理嘛，假設有一天臺灣自己要走出這個部分，那你們就有資料，意思是這樣，可是你們如果是根據從美國來的資料，或者是您剛剛說的15個業者，我想要問，我們也看到非常多國際的專家學者提出非常多的提醒，我們就直接提出來幾個比較重大的問題，有人在問相較於大型反應爐，它真的有更加經濟嗎？其實也有不同的學者有不同的看法，認為降低成本通常不會超過30%，再來，它會比反應爐更安全嗎？其實也有人提出相關疑義，我投影片這邊有寫，被動安全功能並非總是有效，特別遭遇強震、洪患或野火等極端事件，我想強震絕對是我們臺灣要避免的事情。","再來下一個，放射性的廢棄物會比較少嗎？在小型模組這個問題上，其實也有專家學者提出疑義，也就是不必然是這樣，下一個，它的安全性難道好到不需要監控跟維護嗎？或者是SMRs使用的燃料會更少、更有效率嗎？也就是說，在你們的研究當中，你們其實也有反映過類似的問題，也看到類似的問題，參考過很多國際專家學者，因為今天時間有限，這是比較專業的問題，我們就不在這邊討論，但是我想立法院站在監督的角度還是要提出提醒，所以我最後有一個小結，要拜託你們積極的研究，已經有很多專家學者提出，尤其在臺灣，我們之前參加過一個線上會議，線上會議當中的專家學者是來自美國憂思科學家聯盟核電安全主任提醒大家考量小型模組化反應爐的設計，臺灣必須謹慎的思考，充分評估它的安全性，而這個評估的來源可能就來自於我剛剛講那五大面向的問題，當然我們絕對支持國家站在科技發展的角度，做這樣的研究，但是我想要善意的提醒，還是要拜託你們要詳加的注意，好嗎？"],["張代理主任委員欣：好，是的。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，謝謝，這個部分謝謝國原院。接下來要談我們辦公室一直在關心的輻射防護相關政策精進檢討，為什麼我一定要把標題念出來？因為我們真的跟你們談過很多次，我們來看，現在資料有些問題，現在這張統計資料是來自核安會的輻防年報，我們可以看到臺灣投入輻射相關產業工作人員是逐年增加，這是人員的部分，2023來到5萬6,892人，可是核安會給我們的資料裡面說，職業暴露的劑量限值是每連續五年週期的有效劑量不得超過100毫西弗，也就是平均每一年不得超過20毫西弗，而且你們自己有說，任何單一年內之有效劑量不得超過50毫西弗，實務上長期以來，我們大家都認為這是一個很重要的規範。","我們現在想問，我們來看一下，現場是不是真的都是這樣呢？來看總體劑量的部分，從2000年到2023年這二十多年來，我們看到人口數越來越多，但是這張統計圖上所偵測到的總體劑量卻相對偏低，我真的覺得怪怪，尤其請主委注意08到19年這個數字，請你稍微記一下，我們來看下一張統計圖，全國輻射工作人員近二十年的平均劑量值也是逐漸下滑，一樣請您注意08到19年，下一張是輻射工作人員的個人年劑量大於50或者是20毫西弗的人數，近15年來，從08到19趨於個位數或者是0，我想要問，如果以上這幾張的數據是可信的，那我們來看另外一個最近的新聞，在前面圖卡，我剛特別提醒主委08到19年，整體的劑量相對偏低、人員劑量數值也下滑，甚至輻射工作人員個人的年劑量都低於50跟20毫西弗，看起來這個數字很安全，這個統計數字也很漂亮，可是我們真的懷疑會不會有一些黑數，是你們沒有掌握跟我們所不知道的？","我們來看一下這個新聞，這一家工程公司在2019年被揭露有造假劑量佩章的資料，這間公司在今年7月被高雄地檢署以過失致死罪起訴，高雄地檢署的資料我寫在投影片上，我念給主委聽：「為避免該人員劑量佩章所偵測之輻射量超標，致使工作人員必須停止作業，負責人涉嫌自民國97年3月起至108年1月止，指示公司員工於進行檢測作業時不要佩戴劑量佩章，致該公司吳姓員工長期暴露於過量之輻射量而罹患急性白血症死亡。」這就是我剛剛為什麼說如果你們統計數字這麼漂亮，為什麼會出現這個事情？核安會到底有多少的把握剛剛那些漂亮的數字是真的有反映到現場相關從業人員的環境？如果你們這麼有把握，為什麼還會出現這個事情？而且這還是現場有人揭露的，會不會有沒有人揭露的資料？","我們來看下一張，根據核安會你們給我們的資料，從04年針對業者的裁罰案件，核安會的公開資料表示違反游離輻射防護法的有95件，受罰業者有125家，這裡面包含哪些呢？沒有對該人員實施個別劑量監測，還有沒有依照規定劃定管制區實施圍籬管制，或者是沒有依照相關規定實施在職輻射工作人員定期健康檢查，所以看起來你們因著剛剛那些漂亮的統計數字，但是這真的可以反映到現實嗎？我要一再的問，會不會有很多黑數、很多潛在的、現場的職災案例，其實根本沒有反映到？主委怎麼看這件事情？"],["張代理主任委員欣：剛才的案例其實也就是提醒我們在後續要做加強，其實有這個案例之後，我們在輻防組的部分、不預警稽查部分也做加強、資料比對上也做加強，因為我們之前其實有做視察，可是確實他們沒有反映出來，但是由於這個案例，我們針對我們的管制作業做了一些強化。另外，我們現在正在進行的修法作業，事實上也會賦予業者更多的責任。"],["陳委員培瑜：謝謝您提到修法，但是你剛剛說你們在資料比對跟不預警抽查的部分，我覺得看起來還是需要加強，可是修法的部分，我們在猜會不會太久沒有修這個法──20年、將近20年，目前你們有沒有研議相關修法的進度？"],["張代理主任委員欣：基本上這個修法草案我們已經完成了，我們也做了會商以及跟業者討論的部分，我們之前也有送到行政院去做審議，目前並沒有重大的修訂意見，只是因為剛好遇到組改，所以我們依照組改，必須在委員會中報告，我們現在規劃是12月的時候在委員會中報告這個修法，希望能夠在明年可以送進來。"],["陳委員培瑜：太好了！我們很開心聽到這個消息，我想我們辦公室會持續來監督，因為我時間有限，所以法的部分，你剛剛說一個月內，所以我們就期待12月到時候會在委員會再針對法案的部分去討論，保護現場更多工作人員的安全。"],["張代理主任委員欣：抱歉，我說的委員會是核安會的委員會。"],["陳委員培瑜：核安會？不是我們教育及文化委員會？"],["張代理主任委員欣：不是，要核安會委員會通過之後，我們希望在明年的第一個會期……"],["陳委員培瑜：還是先把資料給所有教育及文化委員會的委員。"],["張代理主任委員欣：好，我們再提供相關資料給委員。"],["陳委員培瑜：謝謝主委、謝謝主席。"],["主席：代理主委請回，陳培瑜委員質詢完畢，再來請陳培瑜委員代主持，然後我質詢。"],["主席（陳委員培瑜代）：接下來有請范雲委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":358,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-9","speakers":["范雲","洪孟楷","萬美玲","林宜瑾","林倩綺","張雅琳","柯志恩","葛如鈞","陳秀寳","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","陳培瑜","羅廷瑋","葉元之","吳春城"],"page_start":313,"meetingDate":["2024-11-20"],"gazette_id":"11310401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310401_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請核能安全委員會代理主任委員張欣列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查114年度中\n央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會及所屬單位預算案；三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有\n關核能安全委員會主管核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預算案；四、審查114年度行政法人國家\n原子能科技研究院預算案（第二案至第四案僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11310401_00005"}}}