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\"是\", \"start\": 430.535, \"end\": 430.696, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 430.696, \"end\": 430.996, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 430.996, \"end\": 431.456, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"執\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 431.456, \"end\": 431.636, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 431.636, \"end\": 431.756, \"score\": 0.812}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 431.756, \"end\": 432.296, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 432.296, \"end\": 432.376, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 432.376, \"end\": 432.416, \"score\": 0.497}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 432.416, \"end\": 432.577, \"score\": 0.757}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 432.577, \"end\": 432.997, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 432.997, \"end\": 433.117, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 433.117, \"end\": 433.217, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"腳\"}, {\"word\": \"步\", \"start\": 433.217, \"end\": 433.357, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 433.357, \"end\": 433.697, \"score\": 0.816}, {\"word\": \"快\", \"start\": 433.697, \"end\": 433.857, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 433.857, \"end\": 434.378, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 434.378, \"end\": 434.538, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"真\", \"start\": 434.538, \"end\": 434.638, \"score\": 0.782}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 434.638, \"end\": 434.798, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 434.798, \"end\": 434.918, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"差\", \"start\": 434.918, \"end\": 435.538, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 435.538, \"end\": 435.638, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 435.638, \"end\": 435.858, \"score\": 0.805}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 435.858, \"end\": 436.078, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 436.078, \"end\": 436.319, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 436.319, \"end\": 436.659, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 436.659, \"end\": 436.819, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 436.819, \"end\": 436.939, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 436.939, \"end\": 437.819, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"齁\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 437.819, \"end\": 437.939, \"score\": 0.827}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 437.939, \"end\": 438.96, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 438.96, \"end\": 439.2, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 439.2, \"end\": 439.3, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 439.3, \"end\": 440.641, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 440.641, \"end\": 441.121, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"綠\"}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 441.121, \"end\": 441.281, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 441.281, \"end\": 441.381, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 441.381, \"end\": 441.782, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"展\", \"start\": 441.782, \"end\": 442.002, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 442.002, \"end\": 442.022, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"齁\"}]}, {\"start\": 442.862, \"end\": 470.417, \"text\": \"那綠能的發展當然會涉及到說包括我們在陸域風機已經10年就有一個汰換所以未來好像會有超過900隻的葉片它就會變得需要被汰換那除了這個葉片需要被汰換之外事實上我也很好奇因為我們光電已經推動了已經好幾已經都10幾年了啦所以光電也開始會進入所謂光電版的汰換期了\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 442.862, \"end\": 443.002, \"score\": 0.731}, {\"word\": \"綠\"}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 443.002, \"end\": 443.122, \"score\": 0.786}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 443.122, \"end\": 443.442, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"展\", \"start\": 443.442, \"end\": 443.803, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 443.803, \"end\": 444.623, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"涉\", \"start\": 444.623, \"end\": 444.803, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"及\", \"start\": 444.803, \"end\": 444.943, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 444.943, \"end\": 446.684, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"包\", \"start\": 446.684, \"end\": 446.824, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"括\", \"start\": 446.824, \"end\": 446.944, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 446.944, \"end\": 447.024, \"score\": 0.747}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 447.024, \"end\": 447.325, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"陸\"}, {\"word\": \"域\", \"start\": 447.325, \"end\": 447.905, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"風\"}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 447.905, \"end\": 448.425, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 448.425, \"end\": 448.625, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 448.625, \"end\": 448.785, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 448.785, \"end\": 448.825, \"score\": 0.499}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 448.825, \"end\": 449.006, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"汰\", \"start\": 449.006, \"end\": 449.706, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"換\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 449.706, \"end\": 449.806, \"score\": 0.792}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 449.806, \"end\": 449.886, \"score\": 0.521}, {\"word\": \"未\", \"start\": 449.886, \"end\": 450.186, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 450.186, \"end\": 450.326, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"像\", \"start\": 450.326, \"end\": 450.646, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 450.646, \"end\": 451.147, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"超\", \"start\": 451.147, \"end\": 452.207, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"隻\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 452.207, \"end\": 452.668, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"葉\"}, {\"word\": \"片\", \"start\": 452.668, \"end\": 453.348, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 453.348, \"end\": 453.508, \"score\": 0.722}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 453.508, \"end\": 454.449, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"變\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 454.449, \"end\": 454.629, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"需\", \"start\": 454.629, \"end\": 454.829, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 454.829, \"end\": 455.129, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"被\", \"start\": 455.129, \"end\": 455.429, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"汰\", \"start\": 455.429, \"end\": 456.31, \"score\": 0.817}, {\"word\": \"換\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 456.31, \"end\": 457.13, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"除\", \"start\": 457.13, \"end\": 457.33, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 457.33, \"end\": 458.131, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"葉\"}, {\"word\": \"片\", \"start\": 458.131, \"end\": 458.431, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"需\", \"start\": 458.431, \"end\": 458.551, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 458.551, \"end\": 458.691, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"被\", \"start\": 458.691, \"end\": 458.851, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"汰\", \"start\": 458.851, \"end\": 459.271, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"換\"}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 459.271, \"end\": 459.411, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 459.411, \"end\": 459.631, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 459.631, \"end\": 459.771, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 459.771, \"end\": 459.952, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 459.952, \"end\": 460.032, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 460.032, \"end\": 460.152, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 460.152, \"end\": 460.332, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 460.332, \"end\": 460.612, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"奇\", \"start\": 460.612, \"end\": 461.252, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 461.252, \"end\": 461.392, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 461.392, \"end\": 461.672, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"光\", \"start\": 461.672, \"end\": 462.093, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 462.093, \"end\": 462.413, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"推\", \"start\": 462.413, \"end\": 462.833, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 462.833, \"end\": 463.774, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 463.774, \"end\": 464.054, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 464.054, \"end\": 465.074, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"幾\"}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 465.074, \"end\": 465.274, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 465.274, \"end\": 465.715, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"幾\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 465.715, \"end\": 465.895, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 465.895, \"end\": 466.015, \"score\": 0.827}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 466.015, \"end\": 466.175, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 466.175, \"end\": 466.315, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 466.315, \"end\": 466.715, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"光\", \"start\": 466.715, \"end\": 467.236, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 467.236, \"end\": 467.616, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"始\", \"start\": 467.616, \"end\": 468.176, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"入\", \"start\": 468.176, \"end\": 468.736, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 468.736, \"end\": 469.377, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"謂\"}, {\"word\": \"光\", \"start\": 469.377, \"end\": 469.877, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"版\", \"start\": 469.877, \"end\": 470.097, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 470.097, \"end\": 470.237, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"汰\", \"start\": 470.237, \"end\": 470.377, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"換\"}, {\"word\": \"期\", \"start\": 470.377, \"end\": 470.397, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 470.397, \"end\": 470.417, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 471.978, \"end\": 486.271, \"text\": \"那我想要請教的就是說就於這樣一些風電或者是光電他們這一些零件或者是光電板的汰換或者是他們需要去化不要讓他們進一步變成這個廢棄物變成造成污染的廢棄物那我們現在經濟部有做好這些規劃嗎?\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 471.978, \"end\": 472.138, \"score\": 0.565}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 472.138, \"end\": 472.259, \"score\": 0.632}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 472.259, \"end\": 472.679, \"score\": 0.813}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 472.679, \"end\": 472.699, \"score\": 0.006}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 472.699, \"end\": 472.839, \"score\": 0.734}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 472.839, \"end\": 472.959, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 472.959, \"end\": 473.059, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 473.059, 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0.788}, {\"word\": \"變\"}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 485.411, \"end\": 485.431, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"造\", \"start\": 485.431, \"end\": 485.451, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 485.451, \"end\": 485.651, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"污\", \"start\": 485.651, \"end\": 485.671, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"染\", \"start\": 485.671, \"end\": 485.751, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 485.751, \"end\": 485.771, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"廢\"}, {\"word\": \"棄\"}, {\"word\": \"物\", \"start\": 485.771, \"end\": 485.791, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 485.791, \"end\": 485.811, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 485.811, \"end\": 485.891, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 485.891, \"end\": 485.971, \"score\": 0.734}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"濟\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 485.971, \"end\": 486.091, \"score\": 0.681}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 486.091, \"end\": 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{\"word\": \"!\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 576.868, \"end\": 576.888, \"score\": 0.113}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"!\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,269 --> 00:00:14,677\n蔡易餘委員好謝謝主席我們是有請經濟部郭部長經濟部郭部長\n\n2\n00:00:23,086 --> 00:00:38,003\n委員長部長部長我們從最近的一些新聞包括說我們看到美國拜登有核准要給台積電一些補貼那這個補貼當然是希望台積電到美國設廠\n\n3\n00:00:39,224 --> 00:00:59,491\n那他們有他們的一個需求但是我們從日本、德國跟美國的一個經驗來說事實上他們都很積極的要把台積電這麼一家國際企業然後希望在他們的國內有生產的行為所以台灣其實真的是有台積電真的是很棒這真的是我們台灣的護國神山\n\n4\n00:01:00,091 --> 00:01:06,801\n所以同樣看到日本、德國、美國他們對台積電這樣大力的一個拉攏我們當然要想辦法讓台積電永遠的就是在我們台灣就是在這裡持續的一個發展\n\n5\n00:01:15,214 --> 00:01:33,341\n那這個持續的發展我們除了有一些法令的禁止說這部分如果沒有你們同意是不可以去是不可以去的可是我覺得我們相對應的我們也是要釋出台灣可以做的一些作為讓台積電覺得在台灣那還是有在我們自己股內的溫暖我指的這一些就是說\n\n6\n00:01:40,163 --> 00:02:08,435\n我們知道現在整個台積電它的一些一些幾奈米幾奈米大概在南科未來在高雄也有一些部署那如果南科跟高雄有這樣的一個晶圓的一個生產那嘉義未來是一個COAS就是台積電封裝的一個先進封裝的一個基地好那這樣的一個基地是不是未來因為這個部長也許你比較專業我直接在這邊問這是我不知道的就是說未來\n\n7\n00:02:09,355 --> 00:02:28,625\n南科所發展所生產的一些晶圓這些晶片就是會送到嘉義然後來做先進封裝他會有這樣的一個運輸的過程嗎?會有這樣運輸的過程那是差不多多少比例會這樣的運輸勒?\n\n8\n00:02:30,487 --> 00:02:51,138\n這個有辦法統計還是不確定有可能到別的地方要看是什麼樣的商品想像上是這樣但是有一個部分到嘉義是做COAS那有一部分可能會到高雄高雄的是月光可能這個產品不同的封裝不同的產品進入不同的封裝我想像上大概是這樣\n\n9\n00:02:51,738 --> 00:03:07,474\n但是會到嘉義至少是一個需要技術上去做先進封窗就會到COWAS就會到嘉義所以部長就來了所以我覺得我們台灣能做的是什麼把交通問題再把它改善\n\n10\n00:03:08,599 --> 00:03:37,507\n所以這個雖然這是交通部的問題可是站在整個產業面因為你是經濟部長嘛對你應該要站在說這個產業好因為他們有一個技術上的需求所以我們應該進一步的去思考如果我們可以要求所有的類似這樣的產業園區不管他是屬於國科會所管理的科學園區或者是我們經濟部所管轄的產業園區我們如果可以把嘉義、高雄\n\n11\n00:03:38,327 --> 00:04:05,741\n台南從這樣的一個園區整個有一個交通的大串聯起來比方說現在高雄跟台南推動的S廊帶如果S廊帶可以再延伸到嘉義然後整個串聯起來是不是對於這樣整個晶園他們未來的運輸成本運輸的時間可以大幅的下降這樣對於台積電他們整個企業的一個發展又是更好的一個方向\n\n12\n00:04:06,201 --> 00:04:27,675\n是的,就整個產業來講,就像剛才這個委員所垂詢的,大軍未至,糧草先行。所以道路周遭的環境的形成是非常非常的重要。所以您剛才所垂詢的部分,我們是充分的參考。\n\n13\n00:04:28,437 --> 00:04:48,283\n對我覺得就是說因為部長因為你站在說這個整個這個產業鏈嘛那台積電他當然扮演的已經是台灣的整個產業的一個龍頭那這個龍頭產業要讓他怎麼造成一個產業的群聚有台積電的地方自然他的上下游產業大家自然來群聚所以\n\n14\n00:04:49,204 --> 00:05:02,261\n除了科學園區之外臨近的產業園區就像嘉義我們的嘉科旁邊就有所謂的馬酬厚園區那馬酬厚園區呢他現在有一個45公頃就是我們過去講的叫做要把它規劃叫園中園\n\n15\n00:05:04,364 --> 00:05:32,873\n那我們希望這裡就是一個半導體的一個材料的一個供應鏈所以我們希望說這些材料商就大家都要來買到好這裡那我們這裡也準備最好的一個環境那我們也多次的跟我們產業園區署這邊希望他們趕快來把這個招商的後續的一個程序趕快來推動我想要請教一下部長那這個招商的行為你們在可以在什麼時候\n\n16\n00:05:34,013 --> 00:05:57,316\n可以開始馬籌厚後期的一個招商現在我想我還沒有收到原管局這樣的一個報告那我回去以後會來了解一下因為畢竟這個COAS在嘉義要設那麼多廠的話馬籌厚就像您剛剛所垂詢的它自然而然\n\n17\n00:05:58,758 --> 00:06:14,014\n這個供應商會接近他,因為這個logistic,這個搬運各方面這個距離越短越安全,成本越低。對啊,所以馬草後跟這顆這麼近嘛,對不對?這應該是沒問題啦,這花若盛開蝴蝶自來。\n\n18\n00:06:14,434 --> 00:06:16,056\n花落盛開蝴蝶自來：蔡易餘：蔡易餘\n\n19\n00:06:38,317 --> 00:06:52,385\n包括說台積電在於加科的布局所以如果這些供應鏈可以到馬籌號馬籌號確實也有這樣理想的一個場地所以我想這要快報告委員這都是國發會在經歷經濟部是這間單位所以我會跟國發會留守會我來跟他報告\n\n20\n00:06:59,189 --> 00:07:22,022\n說有委員這樣的歉意那我們是不是把這個速度稍微拉高一點除了國發會之外我們的產業園區署也是因為我們碼頭是產業園區署這邊未來要是是是他要來執行的啦所以我想他的腳步還要快那是真的有差好不好好好那第二個齁就是說我們知道說這個整個綠能的一個發展啦齁\n\n21\n00:07:22,862 --> 00:07:50,417\n那綠能的發展當然會涉及到說包括我們在陸域風機已經10年就有一個汰換所以未來好像會有超過900隻的葉片它就會變得需要被汰換那除了這個葉片需要被汰換之外事實上我也很好奇因為我們光電已經推動了已經好幾已經都10幾年了啦所以光電也開始會進入所謂光電版的汰換期了\n\n22\n00:07:51,978 --> 00:08:06,271\n那我想要請教的就是說就於這樣一些風電或者是光電他們這一些零件或者是光電板的汰換或者是他們需要去化不要讓他們進一步變成這個廢棄物變成造成污染的廢棄物那我們現在經濟部有做好這些規劃嗎?\n\n23\n00:08:15,980 --> 00:08:38,212\n報告委員我們規劃都有啦那個光電的部分比較沒有問題齁這個風電的部分也在進行中我想這個3RReduceRecycle跟Reuse都是我們經濟部啊在處理的部分事實上光電的部分我有一個比較好奇啦齁我好奇的就是說如果好光電的這個契約已經到了那你們是希望他要更新設備\n\n24\n00:08:40,137 --> 00:09:01,397\n還是他可以直接延長契約?你們希望的方向是怎樣?能源署會不會說明一下?跟台電或是業者他另外有簽約是他民事上的問題大方向啊,我說光電如果到齊了,他如果是20年嘛,20年到了後\n\n25\n00:09:02,958 --> 00:09:07,820\n他們是要更新關鍵板,因為現在關鍵板的技術是越來越好嘛,對不對?\n\n26\n00:09:07,820 --> 00:09:25,148\n所以你們是會要求他更新,還是說你舊的沒關係,反正你就繼續學?我們當然希望他能夠更新,因為更新的話也許面積可以縮小,發電量不會變,或者是同樣的面積發電量可以增加。對阿,所以我會說我們有這樣的政策、手段去促成這件事,還是讓它自然發生。\n\n27\n00:09:27,009 --> 00:09:32,560\n看他們自己民間契約怎麼走,這樣嗎?我們當然會盡可能協助他們,就是說...協助喔?\n\n28\n00:09:32,560 --> 00:09:36,868\n我覺得已經熟客看過了啦!你們需要政策手段,還是說你們只是站在輔導、鼓勵,這個是不一樣的喔!謝謝委員!\n\n29\n00:09:36,868 --> 00:09:36,888\n好,謝謝!\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n269\t14677\t蔡易餘委員好 謝謝主席 我們是有請經濟部郭部長經濟部郭部長\n23086\t38003\t委員長部長部長我們從最近的一些新聞包括說我們看到美國拜登有核准要給台積電一些補貼那這個補貼當然是希望台積電到美國設廠\n39224\t59491\t那他們有他們的一個需求但是我們從日本、德國跟美國的一個經驗來說事實上他們都很積極的要把台積電這麼一家國際企業然後希望在他們的國內有生產的行為所以台灣其實真的是有台積電真的是很棒這真的是我們台灣的護國神山\n60091\t66801\t所以同樣看到日本、德國、美國他們對台積電這樣大力的一個拉攏我們當然要想辦法讓台積電永遠的就是在我們台灣就是在這裡持續的一個發展\n75214\t93341\t那這個持續的發展我們除了有一些法令的禁止說這部分如果沒有你們同意是不可以去是不可以去的可是我覺得我們相對應的我們也是要釋出台灣可以做的一些作為讓台積電覺得在台灣那還是有在我們自己股內的溫暖我指的這一些就是說\n100163\t128435\t我們知道現在整個台積電它的一些一些幾奈米幾奈米大概在南科未來在高雄也有一些部署那如果南科跟高雄有這樣的一個晶圓的一個生產那嘉義未來是一個COAS就是台積電封裝的一個先進封裝的一個基地好那這樣的一個基地是不是未來因為這個部長也許你比較專業我直接在這邊問這是我不知道的就是說未來\n129355\t148625\t南科所發展所生產的一些晶圓這些晶片就是會送到嘉義然後來做先進封裝他會有這樣的一個運輸的過程嗎?會有這樣運輸的過程那是差不多多少比例會這樣的運輸勒?\n150487\t171138\t這個有辦法統計還是不確定有可能到別的地方要看是什麼樣的商品想像上是這樣但是有一個部分到嘉義是做COAS那有一部分可能會到高雄高雄的是月光可能這個產品不同的封裝不同的產品進入不同的封裝我想像上大概是這樣\n171738\t187474\t但是會到嘉義至少是一個需要技術上去做先進封窗就會到COWAS就會到嘉義所以部長就來了所以我覺得我們台灣能做的是什麼把交通問題再把它改善\n188599\t217507\t所以這個雖然這是交通部的問題可是站在整個產業面因為你是經濟部長嘛對你應該要站在說這個產業好因為他們有一個技術上的需求所以我們應該進一步的去思考如果我們可以要求所有的類似這樣的產業園區不管他是屬於國科會所管理的科學園區或者是我們經濟部所管轄的產業園區我們如果可以把嘉義、高雄\n218327\t245741\t台南從這樣的一個園區整個有一個交通的大串聯起來比方說現在高雄跟台南推動的S廊帶如果S廊帶可以再延伸到嘉義然後整個串聯起來是不是對於這樣整個晶園他們未來的運輸成本運輸的時間可以大幅的下降這樣對於台積電他們整個企業的一個發展又是更好的一個方向\n246201\t267675\t是的,就整個產業來講,就像剛才這個委員所垂詢的,大軍未至,糧草先行。所以道路周遭的環境的形成是非常非常的重要。所以您剛才所垂詢的部分,我們是充分的參考。\n268437\t288283\t對我覺得就是說因為部長因為你站在說這個整個這個產業鏈嘛那台積電他當然扮演的已經是台灣的整個產業的一個龍頭那這個龍頭產業要讓他怎麼造成一個產業的群聚有台積電的地方自然他的上下游產業大家自然來群聚所以\n289204\t302261\t除了科學園區之外臨近的產業園區就像嘉義我們的嘉科旁邊就有所謂的馬酬厚園區那馬酬厚園區呢他現在有一個45公頃就是我們過去講的叫做要把它規劃叫園中園\n304364\t332873\t那我們希望這裡就是一個半導體的一個材料的一個供應鏈所以我們希望說這些材料商就大家都要來買到好這裡那我們這裡也準備最好的一個環境那我們也多次的跟我們產業園區署這邊希望他們趕快來把這個招商的後續的一個程序趕快來推動我想要請教一下部長那這個招商的行為你們在可以在什麼時候\n334013\t357316\t可以開始馬籌厚後期的一個招商現在我想我還沒有收到原管局這樣的一個報告那我回去以後會來了解一下因為畢竟這個COAS在嘉義要設那麼多廠的話馬籌厚就像您剛剛所垂詢的它自然而然\n358758\t374014\t這個供應商會接近他,因為這個logistic,這個搬運各方面這個距離越短越安全,成本越低。對啊,所以馬草後跟這顆這麼近嘛,對不對?這應該是沒問題啦,這花若盛開蝴蝶自來。\n374434\t376056\t花落盛開蝴蝶自來：蔡易餘：蔡易餘\n398317\t412385\t包括說台積電在於加科的布局所以如果這些供應鏈可以到馬籌號馬籌號確實也有這樣理想的一個場地所以我想這要快報告委員這都是國發會在經歷經濟部是這間單位所以我會跟國發會留守會我來跟他報告\n419189\t442022\t說有委員這樣的歉意那我們是不是把這個速度稍微拉高一點除了國發會之外我們的產業園區署也是因為我們碼頭是產業園區署這邊未來要 是是是他要來執行的啦所以我想他的腳步還要快那是真的有差好不好 好好那第二個齁就是說我們知道說這個整個綠能的一個發展啦齁\n442862\t470417\t那綠能的發展當然會涉及到說包括我們在陸域風機已經10年就有一個汰換所以未來好像會有超過900隻的葉片它就會變得需要被汰換那除了這個葉片需要被汰換之外事實上我也很好奇因為我們光電已經推動了已經好幾已經都10幾年了啦所以光電也開始會進入所謂光電版的汰換期了\n471978\t486271\t那我想要請教的就是說就於這樣一些風電或者是光電他們這一些零件或者是光電板的汰換或者是他們需要去化不要讓他們進一步變成這個廢棄物變成造成污染的廢棄物那我們現在經濟部有做好這些規劃嗎?\n495980\t518212\t報告委員我們規劃都有啦那個光電的部分比較沒有問題齁這個風電的部分也在進行中我想這個3R Reduce Recycle跟Reuse都是我們經濟部啊在處理的部分事實上光電的部分我有一個比較好奇啦齁我好奇的就是說如果好光電的這個契約已經到了那你們是希望他要更新設備\n520137\t541397\t還是他可以直接延長契約?你們希望的方向是怎樣?能源署會不會說明一下?跟台電或是業者他另外有簽約是他民事上的問題大方向啊,我說光電如果到齊了,他如果是20年嘛,20年到了後\n542958\t547820\t他們是要更新關鍵板,因為現在關鍵板的技術是越來越好嘛,對不對?\n547820\t565148\t所以你們是會要求他更新,還是說你舊的沒關係,反正你就繼續學?我們當然希望他能夠更新,因為更新的話也許面積可以縮小,發電量不會變,或者是同樣的面積發電量可以增加。對阿,所以我會說我們有這樣的政策、手段去促成這件事,還是讓它自然發生。\n567009\t572560\t看他們自己民間契約怎麼走,這樣嗎?我們當然會盡可能協助他們,就是說...協助喔?\n572560\t576868\t我覺得已經熟客看過了啦!你們需要政策手段,還是說你們只是站在輔導、鼓勵,這個是不一樣的喔!謝謝委員!\n576868\t576888\t好,謝謝!\n","txt":"蔡易餘委員好 謝謝主席 我們是有請經濟部郭部長經濟部郭部長\n委員長部長部長我們從最近的一些新聞包括說我們看到美國拜登有核准要給台積電一些補貼那這個補貼當然是希望台積電到美國設廠\n那他們有他們的一個需求但是我們從日本、德國跟美國的一個經驗來說事實上他們都很積極的要把台積電這麼一家國際企業然後希望在他們的國內有生產的行為所以台灣其實真的是有台積電真的是很棒這真的是我們台灣的護國神山\n所以同樣看到日本、德國、美國他們對台積電這樣大力的一個拉攏我們當然要想辦法讓台積電永遠的就是在我們台灣就是在這裡持續的一個發展\n那這個持續的發展我們除了有一些法令的禁止說這部分如果沒有你們同意是不可以去是不可以去的可是我覺得我們相對應的我們也是要釋出台灣可以做的一些作為讓台積電覺得在台灣那還是有在我們自己股內的溫暖我指的這一些就是說\n我們知道現在整個台積電它的一些一些幾奈米幾奈米大概在南科未來在高雄也有一些部署那如果南科跟高雄有這樣的一個晶圓的一個生產那嘉義未來是一個COAS就是台積電封裝的一個先進封裝的一個基地好那這樣的一個基地是不是未來因為這個部長也許你比較專業我直接在這邊問這是我不知道的就是說未來\n南科所發展所生產的一些晶圓這些晶片就是會送到嘉義然後來做先進封裝他會有這樣的一個運輸的過程嗎?會有這樣運輸的過程那是差不多多少比例會這樣的運輸勒?\n這個有辦法統計還是不確定有可能到別的地方要看是什麼樣的商品想像上是這樣但是有一個部分到嘉義是做COAS那有一部分可能會到高雄高雄的是月光可能這個產品不同的封裝不同的產品進入不同的封裝我想像上大概是這樣\n但是會到嘉義至少是一個需要技術上去做先進封窗就會到COWAS就會到嘉義所以部長就來了所以我覺得我們台灣能做的是什麼把交通問題再把它改善\n所以這個雖然這是交通部的問題可是站在整個產業面因為你是經濟部長嘛對你應該要站在說這個產業好因為他們有一個技術上的需求所以我們應該進一步的去思考如果我們可以要求所有的類似這樣的產業園區不管他是屬於國科會所管理的科學園區或者是我們經濟部所管轄的產業園區我們如果可以把嘉義、高雄\n台南從這樣的一個園區整個有一個交通的大串聯起來比方說現在高雄跟台南推動的S廊帶如果S廊帶可以再延伸到嘉義然後整個串聯起來是不是對於這樣整個晶園他們未來的運輸成本運輸的時間可以大幅的下降這樣對於台積電他們整個企業的一個發展又是更好的一個方向\n是的,就整個產業來講,就像剛才這個委員所垂詢的,大軍未至,糧草先行。所以道路周遭的環境的形成是非常非常的重要。所以您剛才所垂詢的部分,我們是充分的參考。\n對我覺得就是說因為部長因為你站在說這個整個這個產業鏈嘛那台積電他當然扮演的已經是台灣的整個產業的一個龍頭那這個龍頭產業要讓他怎麼造成一個產業的群聚有台積電的地方自然他的上下游產業大家自然來群聚所以\n除了科學園區之外臨近的產業園區就像嘉義我們的嘉科旁邊就有所謂的馬酬厚園區那馬酬厚園區呢他現在有一個45公頃就是我們過去講的叫做要把它規劃叫園中園\n那我們希望這裡就是一個半導體的一個材料的一個供應鏈所以我們希望說這些材料商就大家都要來買到好這裡那我們這裡也準備最好的一個環境那我們也多次的跟我們產業園區署這邊希望他們趕快來把這個招商的後續的一個程序趕快來推動我想要請教一下部長那這個招商的行為你們在可以在什麼時候\n可以開始馬籌厚後期的一個招商現在我想我還沒有收到原管局這樣的一個報告那我回去以後會來了解一下因為畢竟這個COAS在嘉義要設那麼多廠的話馬籌厚就像您剛剛所垂詢的它自然而然\n這個供應商會接近他,因為這個logistic,這個搬運各方面這個距離越短越安全,成本越低。對啊,所以馬草後跟這顆這麼近嘛,對不對?這應該是沒問題啦,這花若盛開蝴蝶自來。\n花落盛開蝴蝶自來：蔡易餘：蔡易餘\n包括說台積電在於加科的布局所以如果這些供應鏈可以到馬籌號馬籌號確實也有這樣理想的一個場地所以我想這要快報告委員這都是國發會在經歷經濟部是這間單位所以我會跟國發會留守會我來跟他報告\n說有委員這樣的歉意那我們是不是把這個速度稍微拉高一點除了國發會之外我們的產業園區署也是因為我們碼頭是產業園區署這邊未來要 是是是他要來執行的啦所以我想他的腳步還要快那是真的有差好不好 好好那第二個齁就是說我們知道說這個整個綠能的一個發展啦齁\n那綠能的發展當然會涉及到說包括我們在陸域風機已經10年就有一個汰換所以未來好像會有超過900隻的葉片它就會變得需要被汰換那除了這個葉片需要被汰換之外事實上我也很好奇因為我們光電已經推動了已經好幾已經都10幾年了啦所以光電也開始會進入所謂光電版的汰換期了\n那我想要請教的就是說就於這樣一些風電或者是光電他們這一些零件或者是光電板的汰換或者是他們需要去化不要讓他們進一步變成這個廢棄物變成造成污染的廢棄物那我們現在經濟部有做好這些規劃嗎?\n報告委員我們規劃都有啦那個光電的部分比較沒有問題齁這個風電的部分也在進行中我想這個3R Reduce Recycle跟Reuse都是我們經濟部啊在處理的部分事實上光電的部分我有一個比較好奇啦齁我好奇的就是說如果好光電的這個契約已經到了那你們是希望他要更新設備\n還是他可以直接延長契約?你們希望的方向是怎樣?能源署會不會說明一下?跟台電或是業者他另外有簽約是他民事上的問題大方向啊,我說光電如果到齊了,他如果是20年嘛,20年到了後\n他們是要更新關鍵板,因為現在關鍵板的技術是越來越好嘛,對不對?\n所以你們是會要求他更新,還是說你舊的沒關係,反正你就繼續學?我們當然希望他能夠更新,因為更新的話也許面積可以縮小,發電量不會變,或者是同樣的面積發電量可以增加。對阿,所以我會說我們有這樣的政策、手段去促成這件事,還是讓它自然發生。\n看他們自己民間契約怎麼走,這樣嗎?我們當然會盡可能協助他們,就是說...協助喔?\n我覺得已經熟客看過了啦!你們需要政策手段,還是說你們只是站在輔導、鼓勵,這個是不一樣的喔!謝謝委員!\n好,謝謝!\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.269 --> 00:14.677\n蔡易餘委員好謝謝主席我們是有請經濟部郭部長經濟部郭部長\n\n00:23.086 --> 00:38.003\n委員長部長部長我們從最近的一些新聞包括說我們看到美國拜登有核准要給台積電一些補貼那這個補貼當然是希望台積電到美國設廠\n\n00:39.224 --> 00:59.491\n那他們有他們的一個需求但是我們從日本、德國跟美國的一個經驗來說事實上他們都很積極的要把台積電這麼一家國際企業然後希望在他們的國內有生產的行為所以台灣其實真的是有台積電真的是很棒這真的是我們台灣的護國神山\n\n01:00.091 --> 01:06.801\n所以同樣看到日本、德國、美國他們對台積電這樣大力的一個拉攏我們當然要想辦法讓台積電永遠的就是在我們台灣就是在這裡持續的一個發展\n\n01:15.214 --> 01:33.341\n那這個持續的發展我們除了有一些法令的禁止說這部分如果沒有你們同意是不可以去是不可以去的可是我覺得我們相對應的我們也是要釋出台灣可以做的一些作為讓台積電覺得在台灣那還是有在我們自己股內的溫暖我指的這一些就是說\n\n01:40.163 --> 02:08.435\n我們知道現在整個台積電它的一些一些幾奈米幾奈米大概在南科未來在高雄也有一些部署那如果南科跟高雄有這樣的一個晶圓的一個生產那嘉義未來是一個COAS就是台積電封裝的一個先進封裝的一個基地好那這樣的一個基地是不是未來因為這個部長也許你比較專業我直接在這邊問這是我不知道的就是說未來\n\n02:09.355 --> 02:28.625\n南科所發展所生產的一些晶圓這些晶片就是會送到嘉義然後來做先進封裝他會有這樣的一個運輸的過程嗎?會有這樣運輸的過程那是差不多多少比例會這樣的運輸勒?\n\n02:30.487 --> 02:51.138\n這個有辦法統計還是不確定有可能到別的地方要看是什麼樣的商品想像上是這樣但是有一個部分到嘉義是做COAS那有一部分可能會到高雄高雄的是月光可能這個產品不同的封裝不同的產品進入不同的封裝我想像上大概是這樣\n\n02:51.738 --> 03:07.474\n但是會到嘉義至少是一個需要技術上去做先進封窗就會到COWAS就會到嘉義所以部長就來了所以我覺得我們台灣能做的是什麼把交通問題再把它改善\n\n03:08.599 --> 03:37.507\n所以這個雖然這是交通部的問題可是站在整個產業面因為你是經濟部長嘛對你應該要站在說這個產業好因為他們有一個技術上的需求所以我們應該進一步的去思考如果我們可以要求所有的類似這樣的產業園區不管他是屬於國科會所管理的科學園區或者是我們經濟部所管轄的產業園區我們如果可以把嘉義、高雄\n\n03:38.327 --> 04:05.741\n台南從這樣的一個園區整個有一個交通的大串聯起來比方說現在高雄跟台南推動的S廊帶如果S廊帶可以再延伸到嘉義然後整個串聯起來是不是對於這樣整個晶園他們未來的運輸成本運輸的時間可以大幅的下降這樣對於台積電他們整個企業的一個發展又是更好的一個方向\n\n04:06.201 --> 04:27.675\n是的,就整個產業來講,就像剛才這個委員所垂詢的,大軍未至,糧草先行。所以道路周遭的環境的形成是非常非常的重要。所以您剛才所垂詢的部分,我們是充分的參考。\n\n04:28.437 --> 04:48.283\n對我覺得就是說因為部長因為你站在說這個整個這個產業鏈嘛那台積電他當然扮演的已經是台灣的整個產業的一個龍頭那這個龍頭產業要讓他怎麼造成一個產業的群聚有台積電的地方自然他的上下游產業大家自然來群聚所以\n\n04:49.204 --> 05:02.261\n除了科學園區之外臨近的產業園區就像嘉義我們的嘉科旁邊就有所謂的馬酬厚園區那馬酬厚園區呢他現在有一個45公頃就是我們過去講的叫做要把它規劃叫園中園\n\n05:04.364 --> 05:32.873\n那我們希望這裡就是一個半導體的一個材料的一個供應鏈所以我們希望說這些材料商就大家都要來買到好這裡那我們這裡也準備最好的一個環境那我們也多次的跟我們產業園區署這邊希望他們趕快來把這個招商的後續的一個程序趕快來推動我想要請教一下部長那這個招商的行為你們在可以在什麼時候\n\n05:34.013 --> 05:57.316\n可以開始馬籌厚後期的一個招商現在我想我還沒有收到原管局這樣的一個報告那我回去以後會來了解一下因為畢竟這個COAS在嘉義要設那麼多廠的話馬籌厚就像您剛剛所垂詢的它自然而然\n\n05:58.758 --> 06:14.014\n這個供應商會接近他,因為這個logistic,這個搬運各方面這個距離越短越安全,成本越低。對啊,所以馬草後跟這顆這麼近嘛,對不對?這應該是沒問題啦,這花若盛開蝴蝶自來。\n\n06:14.434 --> 06:16.056\n花落盛開蝴蝶自來：蔡易餘：蔡易餘\n\n06:38.317 --> 06:52.385\n包括說台積電在於加科的布局所以如果這些供應鏈可以到馬籌號馬籌號確實也有這樣理想的一個場地所以我想這要快報告委員這都是國發會在經歷經濟部是這間單位所以我會跟國發會留守會我來跟他報告\n\n06:59.189 --> 07:22.022\n說有委員這樣的歉意那我們是不是把這個速度稍微拉高一點除了國發會之外我們的產業園區署也是因為我們碼頭是產業園區署這邊未來要是是是他要來執行的啦所以我想他的腳步還要快那是真的有差好不好好好那第二個齁就是說我們知道說這個整個綠能的一個發展啦齁\n\n07:22.862 --> 07:50.417\n那綠能的發展當然會涉及到說包括我們在陸域風機已經10年就有一個汰換所以未來好像會有超過900隻的葉片它就會變得需要被汰換那除了這個葉片需要被汰換之外事實上我也很好奇因為我們光電已經推動了已經好幾已經都10幾年了啦所以光電也開始會進入所謂光電版的汰換期了\n\n07:51.978 --> 08:06.271\n那我想要請教的就是說就於這樣一些風電或者是光電他們這一些零件或者是光電板的汰換或者是他們需要去化不要讓他們進一步變成這個廢棄物變成造成污染的廢棄物那我們現在經濟部有做好這些規劃嗎?\n\n08:15.980 --> 08:38.212\n報告委員我們規劃都有啦那個光電的部分比較沒有問題齁這個風電的部分也在進行中我想這個3RReduceRecycle跟Reuse都是我們經濟部啊在處理的部分事實上光電的部分我有一個比較好奇啦齁我好奇的就是說如果好光電的這個契約已經到了那你們是希望他要更新設備\n\n08:40.137 --> 09:01.397\n還是他可以直接延長契約?你們希望的方向是怎樣?能源署會不會說明一下?跟台電或是業者他另外有簽約是他民事上的問題大方向啊,我說光電如果到齊了,他如果是20年嘛,20年到了後\n\n09:02.958 --> 09:07.820\n他們是要更新關鍵板,因為現在關鍵板的技術是越來越好嘛,對不對?\n\n09:07.820 --> 09:25.148\n所以你們是會要求他更新,還是說你舊的沒關係,反正你就繼續學?我們當然希望他能夠更新,因為更新的話也許面積可以縮小,發電量不會變,或者是同樣的面積發電量可以增加。對阿,所以我會說我們有這樣的政策、手段去促成這件事,還是讓它自然發生。\n\n09:27.009 --> 09:32.560\n看他們自己民間契約怎麼走,這樣嗎?我們當然會盡可能協助他們,就是說...協助喔?\n\n09:32.560 --> 09:36.868\n我覺得已經熟客看過了啦!你們需要政策手段,還是說你們只是站在輔導、鼓勵,這個是不一樣的喔!謝謝委員!\n\n09:36.868 --> 09:36.888\n好,謝謝!\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.269,"end":14.677,"text":"蔡易餘委員好 謝謝主席 我們是有請經濟部郭部長經濟部郭部長"},{"start":23.086,"end":38.003,"text":"委員長部長部長我們從最近的一些新聞包括說我們看到美國拜登有核准要給台積電一些補貼那這個補貼當然是希望台積電到美國設廠"},{"start":39.224,"end":59.491,"text":"那他們有他們的一個需求但是我們從日本、德國跟美國的一個經驗來說事實上他們都很積極的要把台積電這麼一家國際企業然後希望在他們的國內有生產的行為所以台灣其實真的是有台積電真的是很棒這真的是我們台灣的護國神山"},{"start":60.091,"end":66.801,"text":"所以同樣看到日本、德國、美國他們對台積電這樣大力的一個拉攏我們當然要想辦法讓台積電永遠的就是在我們台灣就是在這裡持續的一個發展"},{"start":75.214,"end":93.341,"text":"那這個持續的發展我們除了有一些法令的禁止說這部分如果沒有你們同意是不可以去是不可以去的可是我覺得我們相對應的我們也是要釋出台灣可以做的一些作為讓台積電覺得在台灣那還是有在我們自己股內的溫暖我指的這一些就是說"},{"start":100.163,"end":128.435,"text":"我們知道現在整個台積電它的一些一些幾奈米幾奈米大概在南科未來在高雄也有一些部署那如果南科跟高雄有這樣的一個晶圓的一個生產那嘉義未來是一個COAS就是台積電封裝的一個先進封裝的一個基地好那這樣的一個基地是不是未來因為這個部長也許你比較專業我直接在這邊問這是我不知道的就是說未來"},{"start":129.355,"end":148.625,"text":"南科所發展所生產的一些晶圓這些晶片就是會送到嘉義然後來做先進封裝他會有這樣的一個運輸的過程嗎?會有這樣運輸的過程那是差不多多少比例會這樣的運輸勒?"},{"start":150.487,"end":171.138,"text":"這個有辦法統計還是不確定有可能到別的地方要看是什麼樣的商品想像上是這樣但是有一個部分到嘉義是做COAS那有一部分可能會到高雄高雄的是月光可能這個產品不同的封裝不同的產品進入不同的封裝我想像上大概是這樣"},{"start":171.738,"end":187.474,"text":"但是會到嘉義至少是一個需要技術上去做先進封窗就會到COWAS就會到嘉義所以部長就來了所以我覺得我們台灣能做的是什麼把交通問題再把它改善"},{"start":188.599,"end":217.507,"text":"所以這個雖然這是交通部的問題可是站在整個產業面因為你是經濟部長嘛對你應該要站在說這個產業好因為他們有一個技術上的需求所以我們應該進一步的去思考如果我們可以要求所有的類似這樣的產業園區不管他是屬於國科會所管理的科學園區或者是我們經濟部所管轄的產業園區我們如果可以把嘉義、高雄"},{"start":218.327,"end":245.741,"text":"台南從這樣的一個園區整個有一個交通的大串聯起來比方說現在高雄跟台南推動的S廊帶如果S廊帶可以再延伸到嘉義然後整個串聯起來是不是對於這樣整個晶園他們未來的運輸成本運輸的時間可以大幅的下降這樣對於台積電他們整個企業的一個發展又是更好的一個方向"},{"start":246.201,"end":267.675,"text":"是的,就整個產業來講,就像剛才這個委員所垂詢的,大軍未至,糧草先行。所以道路周遭的環境的形成是非常非常的重要。所以您剛才所垂詢的部分,我們是充分的參考。"},{"start":268.437,"end":288.283,"text":"對我覺得就是說因為部長因為你站在說這個整個這個產業鏈嘛那台積電他當然扮演的已經是台灣的整個產業的一個龍頭那這個龍頭產業要讓他怎麼造成一個產業的群聚有台積電的地方自然他的上下游產業大家自然來群聚所以"},{"start":289.204,"end":302.261,"text":"除了科學園區之外臨近的產業園區就像嘉義我們的嘉科旁邊就有所謂的馬酬厚園區那馬酬厚園區呢他現在有一個45公頃就是我們過去講的叫做要把它規劃叫園中園"},{"start":304.364,"end":332.873,"text":"那我們希望這裡就是一個半導體的一個材料的一個供應鏈所以我們希望說這些材料商就大家都要來買到好這裡那我們這裡也準備最好的一個環境那我們也多次的跟我們產業園區署這邊希望他們趕快來把這個招商的後續的一個程序趕快來推動我想要請教一下部長那這個招商的行為你們在可以在什麼時候"},{"start":334.013,"end":357.316,"text":"可以開始馬籌厚後期的一個招商現在我想我還沒有收到原管局這樣的一個報告那我回去以後會來了解一下因為畢竟這個COAS在嘉義要設那麼多廠的話馬籌厚就像您剛剛所垂詢的它自然而然"},{"start":358.758,"end":374.014,"text":"這個供應商會接近他,因為這個logistic,這個搬運各方面這個距離越短越安全,成本越低。對啊,所以馬草後跟這顆這麼近嘛,對不對?這應該是沒問題啦,這花若盛開蝴蝶自來。"},{"start":374.434,"end":376.056,"text":"花落盛開蝴蝶自來：蔡易餘：蔡易餘"},{"start":398.317,"end":412.385,"text":"包括說台積電在於加科的布局所以如果這些供應鏈可以到馬籌號馬籌號確實也有這樣理想的一個場地所以我想這要快報告委員這都是國發會在經歷經濟部是這間單位所以我會跟國發會留守會我來跟他報告"},{"start":419.189,"end":442.022,"text":"說有委員這樣的歉意那我們是不是把這個速度稍微拉高一點除了國發會之外我們的產業園區署也是因為我們碼頭是產業園區署這邊未來要 是是是他要來執行的啦所以我想他的腳步還要快那是真的有差好不好 好好那第二個齁就是說我們知道說這個整個綠能的一個發展啦齁"},{"start":442.862,"end":470.417,"text":"那綠能的發展當然會涉及到說包括我們在陸域風機已經10年就有一個汰換所以未來好像會有超過900隻的葉片它就會變得需要被汰換那除了這個葉片需要被汰換之外事實上我也很好奇因為我們光電已經推動了已經好幾已經都10幾年了啦所以光電也開始會進入所謂光電版的汰換期了"},{"start":471.978,"end":486.271,"text":"那我想要請教的就是說就於這樣一些風電或者是光電他們這一些零件或者是光電板的汰換或者是他們需要去化不要讓他們進一步變成這個廢棄物變成造成污染的廢棄物那我們現在經濟部有做好這些規劃嗎?"},{"start":495.98,"end":518.212,"text":"報告委員我們規劃都有啦那個光電的部分比較沒有問題齁這個風電的部分也在進行中我想這個3R Reduce Recycle跟Reuse都是我們經濟部啊在處理的部分事實上光電的部分我有一個比較好奇啦齁我好奇的就是說如果好光電的這個契約已經到了那你們是希望他要更新設備"},{"start":520.137,"end":541.397,"text":"還是他可以直接延長契約?你們希望的方向是怎樣?能源署會不會說明一下?跟台電或是業者他另外有簽約是他民事上的問題大方向啊,我說光電如果到齊了,他如果是20年嘛,20年到了後"},{"start":542.958,"end":547.82,"text":"他們是要更新關鍵板,因為現在關鍵板的技術是越來越好嘛,對不對?"},{"start":547.82,"end":565.148,"text":"所以你們是會要求他更新,還是說你舊的沒關係,反正你就繼續學?我們當然希望他能夠更新,因為更新的話也許面積可以縮小,發電量不會變,或者是同樣的面積發電量可以增加。對阿,所以我會說我們有這樣的政策、手段去促成這件事,還是讓它自然發生。"},{"start":567.009,"end":572.56,"text":"看他們自己民間契約怎麼走,這樣嗎?我們當然會盡可能協助他們,就是說...協助喔?"},{"start":572.56,"end":576.868,"text":"我覺得已經熟客看過了啦!你們需要政策手段,還是說你們只是站在輔導、鼓勵,這個是不一樣的喔!謝謝委員!"},{"start":576.868,"end":576.888,"text":"好,謝謝!"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":645,"blocks":[["蔡委員易餘：（11時14分）好，謝謝主席，我們有請經濟部郭部長。"],["主席：請經濟部郭部長。"],["郭部長智輝：委員早。"],["蔡委員易餘：部長，我們從最近的一些新聞，包括我們看到美國拜登有核准要給台積電一些補貼，這個補貼當然是希望台積電到美國設廠，他們有他們的需求，但是我們從日本、德國跟美國的經驗來說，事實上他們都很積極地要把台積電這麼一家國際企業，然後希望在他們的國內有生產的行為，所以我們臺灣有台積電真的是很棒，這真的是我們臺灣的護國神山，所以同樣看到日本、德國、美國，他們對台積電這樣大力的拉攏，我們當然站在我們……我們當然要想辦法讓台積電永遠在我們臺灣，就是在這裡持續發展，這個持續發展，我們除了有一些法令的禁止說這部分如果沒有你們的同意它是不能蓋的，可是我覺得我們相對應地，我們也是要釋出臺灣可以做的一些作為，讓台積電覺得在臺灣還是有在我們自己國內的溫暖，我指的這一些就是說，我們知道現在整個台積電的一些幾奈米、幾奈米大概在南科，未來在高雄也有一些部署，如果南科跟高雄有這樣的晶圓生產，嘉義未來是一個CoWoS，就是台積電的先進封裝基地，那這樣的一個基地，是不是未來……因為這個部長也許你比較專業，我直接在這邊問，這是我不知道的，就是說未來南科所發展、所生產的一些晶圓、這一些晶片，就是會送到嘉義然後來做先進封裝，它會有這樣的一個運輸過程嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：會。"],["蔡委員易餘：會有這樣運輸的過程，差不多多少比例會這樣的運輸咧？這個有辦法統計還是不確定？有可能到別的地方？"],["郭部長智輝：要看是什麼樣的商品啦！"],["蔡委員易餘：我想像上也是這樣，但是……"],["郭部長智輝：大概有一個部分到嘉義是做CoWoS，有一部分可能會到高雄，高雄的日月光，可能就產品不一樣，封裝的……"],["蔡委員易餘：就有不同的封裝嘛！不同的產品進入不同的封裝，我想像上大概也是這樣，但是會到嘉義至少是一個需要技術上去做先進封裝……"],["郭部長智輝：如果是做那個……"],["蔡委員易餘：就是CoWoS就會到嘉義。"],["郭部長智輝：對，AI的部分就會到……"],["蔡委員易餘：對，所以部長，就來了啊！所以我覺得我們臺灣能做的是什麼？把交通問題再把它改善，所以這個雖然是交通部的問題，可是站在整個產業面，因為你是經濟部長，你應該要站在這個產業，因為他們有一個技術上的需求，所以我們應該進一步去思考，如果我們可以要求所有類似這樣的產業園區，不管它是屬於國科會所管理的科學園區，或者是我們經濟部所管轄的產業園區，我們如果可以把嘉義、高雄、臺南這樣的園區，整個有一個交通的大串聯起來，比方說現在高雄跟臺南推動的S廊帶，如果S廊帶可以再延伸到嘉義，然後整個串聯起來，整個晶圓未來的運輸成本、運輸的時間是不是可以大幅地下降，這樣對於台積電整個企業的發展又是更好的一個方向？"],["郭部長智輝：是的，就整個產業來講，就像剛才委員所垂詢的，大軍未至，糧草先行，所以道路周遭所謂的環境形成非常非常重要，所以您剛才所垂詢的部分，我們是充分地參考。"],["蔡委員易餘：對，因為部長你站在整個產業鏈嘛！台積電當然扮演的已經是臺灣整個產業的龍頭，這個龍頭產業要讓它怎麼造成一個產業的群聚，有台積電的地方自然它的上、下游產業，大家自然來群聚，所以除了科學園區之外，鄰近的產業園區，就像嘉義我們的嘉科旁邊就有所謂的馬稠後園區，馬稠後園區現在有一個45公頃，就是我們過去說要把它規劃叫做園中園，我們希望這裡就是一個半導體材料的供應鏈，所以也希望這些材料商大家都來我們馬稠後這裡，我們這裡也準備最好的環境，我們也多次跟產業園區管理局協調，希望他們趕快推動招商的後續程序推動，我想要請教一下部長，這個招商的行為，你們可以在什麼時候開始做馬稠後後期的招商？"],["郭部長智輝：現在我想我還沒有收到園管局的報告，我回去以後會來了解一下，畢竟CoWoS在嘉義要設那麼多廠的話，那就像您剛剛所垂詢的，供應商會自然而然地接近馬稠後，按照搬運等等各方面的logistic，距離越短越安全，成本越低。"],["蔡委員易餘：對啊，所以馬稠後跟嘉科這麼近，對嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：這個應該是沒有問題啦，花若盛開，蝴蝶自來。"],["蔡委員易餘：花若盛開，蝴蝶自來，可是我們會著急啊，我們覺得讓程序跑快點嘛，整個馬稠後那100坪是台糖分配的，而台糖是沒有能力去接觸到這些廠商的。"],["郭部長智輝：我們會跟國科會一起來努力。"],["蔡委員易餘：因為你們經濟部才有辦法去把那一些廠商引來，然後告知這些廠商說，未來包括台積電在嘉科的布局，所以如果這一些供應鏈可以到馬稠後，而馬稠後確實也有這樣理想的一個場地，所以我想這要快。"],["郭部長智輝：對，報告委員，這些都是國發會在整理，經濟部是執行單位，所以我會跟國發會劉主委報告，說有委員這樣的建議，那我們是不是把速度稍微拉快一點。"],["蔡委員易餘：除了國發會之外，我們的產業園區管理局也是，因為馬稠後是產業園區管理局要來執行的，所以我在想，如果他們的腳步快一點，那是真的有差，好不好？"],["郭部長智輝：好。"],["蔡委員易餘：好。第二個，綠能的發展當然會涉及到很多，包括陸域風機，陸域風機10年就有一次汰換，所以未來好像會有超過900支葉片需要汰換，除了葉片需要汰換之外，事實上我也很好奇，因為我們光電已經推動了十幾年，所以光電也開始進入光電板的汰換期，我想要請教，一些風電或光電的零件或光電板的汰換或去化，不要讓這些東西進一步變成廢棄物，造成污染，現在經濟部有做好相關規劃嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我們規劃都有啦，光電的部分比較沒有問題，風電的部分也在進行中，所謂的3R，也就是Reduce、Recycle跟Reuse，都是我們經濟部在處理的部分。"],["蔡委員易餘：好。事實上光電的部分我對一件事比較好奇，我好奇的就是，如果光電的契約已經到期了，那你們是希望對方更新設備，還是可以直接延長契約？你們希望的方向是怎麼樣？"],["郭部長智輝：我請能源署說明一下。"],["吳副署長志偉：跟委員報告一下，它跟台電或業者另外有簽約，是民事上的問題，我們有一個……"],["蔡委員易餘：大方向，我說光電如果到期了，如果契約是20年，那20年到了後，他們是要更新光電板？因為現在光電板的技術是越來越好，所以你們是會要求他更新，還是說就算是舊的也沒關係，反正就繼續續約？"],["吳副署長志偉：我們當然是希望能夠更新，因為更新的話，也許面積可以縮小，發電量不會變，或者是同樣的面積，發電量可以增加。"],["蔡委員易餘：對，所以我說我們有這些政策手段去促成這件事，還是我們讓它自然發生，看他們自己民間契約怎麼走？"],["吳副署長志偉：我們當然會儘可能協助他們。"],["蔡委員易餘：協助？"],["吳副署長志偉：對。"],["蔡委員易餘：我覺得你們思考看看。"],["吳副署長志偉：好。"],["蔡委員易餘：你們需要政策手段，還是說你們只是站在輔導、鼓勵的立場，這個是不一樣的。"],["吳副署長志偉：是。"],["郭部長智輝：好，謝謝委員垂詢。"],["主席：好，謝謝蔡易餘委員，部長請回座。","部長，花若不開，那蝴蝶去哪裡？不來喔？"],["蔡委員易餘：不會啦，因為桃花朵朵開啦。"],["主席（蔡委員易餘代）：OK，好。下一位請邱志偉委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":66,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-15","speakers":["邱志偉","陳亭妃","謝衣鳯","邱議瑩","林岱樺","賴瑞隆","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","張嘉郡","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","蔡易餘","陳超明","羅智強","賴士葆","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","呂玉玲","楊瓊瓔","陳培瑜","洪孟楷","陳冠廷","葉元之","林德福"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-20"],"gazette_id":"11310301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310301_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查 114 年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於經濟部主管：台灣電力股份有限公\n司、台灣自來水股份有限公司（詢答）","agenda_id":"11310301_00001"}}}