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{\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"料\", \"start\": 813.526, \"end\": 813.546, \"score\": 0.063}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,089 --> 00:00:16,394\n邱政軍委員執行完畢之後我們處理臨時提案有請何部長跟雷司長\n\n2\n00:00:30,657 --> 00:00:32,638\n這名公務人員本來他在生前就遭受到職場霸凌,他定調是這樣\n\n3\n00:00:50,067 --> 00:00:53,048\n11月4日發生自殺、死亡事件,勞動部什麼時候開始做調查?等到新聞才有動作?\n\n4\n00:01:20,438 --> 00:01:24,340\n這個事件發生後,勞動部有沒有主動跟自殺防治通報系統做通報?或是有報警或警察做通報?當時有報警有沒有跟我們的自殺防治的這個通報系統做通報?\n\n5\n00:01:50,700 --> 00:01:54,425\n事件發生後是勞動部自己還是有請衛生福利部來協助對我們的家屬做一些關懷?有嗎?\n\n6\n00:02:11,483 --> 00:02:35,755\n我請他們回答在事發的時候我們北分署的人事室主任跟秘書室主任全程先送到臺北醫院然後也陪同家屬然後來做後面的招魂給已臨到殯葬會館的部分然後也全程陪同家屬來做相關的一個協助然後還有國關家屬的請求的部分我們也都配合辦理上說明好\n\n7\n00:02:37,694 --> 00:02:54,346\n部長想問一下按照我們的自殺防治法第6條第一項規定的防治工作裡邊我不知道勞動部有沒有弱勢就是你們辦理的自殺防治教育裡邊參加同仁占比例有多少還有你們有提供心理諮商的管道嗎每年的使用人數\n\n8\n00:03:00,669 --> 00:03:18,913\n我們今年的那個說實在的我們那個心理智商我們是我們部來統整然後給各個分署來做處理如果你沒辦法回答的話就是會後是不是我們就把相關的數據提供因為這蠻重要的那下一\n\n9\n00:03:30,666 --> 00:03:47,518\n三本案重從民眾來提到的時候他就是有超時工作上部長剛剛前面有委員質詢你也講說打假卡的問題表示他們工作量真的很大他只好呢先符合你們勞動法相關法規先去打了卡又再\n\n10\n00:03:48,078 --> 00:03:48,398\n李卓人議員\n\n11\n00:04:14,613 --> 00:04:35,084\n我可不可以借一點時間我稍微澄清一下其實我們部裡絕對不允許是不允許員工這樣打假卡沒有這個是不允許的可是工作量多到這種狀況的時候你要叫他怎麼辦呢這就是問題所以這就是我們這位員工真的太令人不捨\n\n12\n00:04:36,404 --> 00:05:03,931\n對,他真的太...那你有沒有關心到主管就是交給他太多太多的工作以致於他沒有辦法負荷啊這就是我們要去檢討的地方可是我是說制度上打假卡是不對的那我們也不允許這樣的行為可是卻存在這樣的行為這是我們要檢討的地方是,我覺得如果勞動部都做不到的話你不用講說其他的企業都常有這樣狀況了因為你是一個主管機關欸是,當然當然好,那群聚部\n\n13\n00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:28,837\n各位委員報告依據公務員服務法第12條的規定加班它的定義其實是長官基於業務需要指派同仁在正常的上班時間以外延長工作時間那這樣的定義之下其實是長官指派同仁才可以做加班的動作那當然我們也了解公務同仁有一些\n\n14\n00:05:29,377 --> 00:05:36,002\n主管要去關懷同仁知道同仁的工作情況之下主管就要去調整工作好讓同仁不要超時的加班我們是希望達成這樣的效果\n\n15\n00:05:58,277 --> 00:06:21,100\n市長不是員工要超時他勢必就變成要這樣因為工作量大到這樣的時候你要叫他有些像這個標案還有急迫性的那他死的他就是必須要去做那一樣問全序部這邊公益加班事前要上系統去申請可是主管不許可的話怎麼辦可以申請請你們下去指導嗎\n\n16\n00:06:22,664 --> 00:06:48,043\n這個部分是因為它是屬於這個機關的行政管理措施如果同仁就是有不服這個或是覺得不恰當的話他可以去進行申訴走申訴的這樣一個流程好你說用走申訴那另外我要問加班費是事前編列如果請完為止的話剩下的時數強迫補修可是沒時間修啊因為工作量大這樣年底一筆勾銷那這個問題是很多年討論也多年了怎麼解決\n\n17\n00:06:49,515 --> 00:07:09,768\n公務員報告因為這部分是在公務員保障法有規範那我這邊就是待會回答一下如果說是這個加班時數不能用這個加班費來補償的話那就是會進到用平時的獎勵的方式喔大概超過一半時間因為我周遭真的不管是親人朋友都有很多共敵\n\n18\n00:07:10,328 --> 00:07:10,588\n李卓人議員\n\n19\n00:07:29,917 --> 00:07:56,702\n所以就很遺憾全系部還是沒有講出一些積極的作為來處理那過去我們去看111的人力銀行的調查裡面83%的上班族都曾經遭遇到霸凌尤其是職屬機關職屬的主管占了44%蠻高的慣用的手法有時候是用言語那甚至有時候女性遭遇到職場霸凌的比例有時候是高出於男性\n\n20\n00:07:57,722 --> 00:08:20,880\n政府部門政府部門到底有沒有去處理你們還是一個主管機關要去管這個反而是沒有特別去處理所以我就再問全序部就是說因為霸凌事實上意思是加害人對被害人從事觸犯刑法罪嫌的犯罪行為是要遭受刑法的造成\n\n21\n00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:21,620\n林月琴議員\n\n22\n00:08:37,148 --> 00:09:05,743\n全序部現行機制又是公務人員如果不符機關職場霸凌成立與否的決定的話得依保障法循序那個申訴和再申訴程序再提起我們的行政訴訟程序那這個程序上有準施法的地位據機關跟申訴人雙方權利平等的原則在保障我們的法的機制底下應允許人委託我們的律師協助你同意嗎\n\n23\n00:09:07,284 --> 00:09:18,309\n報告委員因為這部分涉及到保障法的規範是不是請公衛保障培訓委員會來那這個階段是不是應該引進我們的法律輔助的制度來依當事人的意願提出申請\n\n24\n00:09:20,954 --> 00:09:39,469\n報告委員有關那個職場霸凌的救濟的部分是由保訓會主管那保訓會在審理的時候公務人員本來就可以請律師作為他的代理人那之後不符我們的決定依現況也可以去提行相應的行政訴訟\n\n25\n00:09:43,462 --> 00:10:12,183\n好再來想問勞動部部長這邊本席知道勞動部早在104年就便制定了勞動部員工安全跟衛生防護要點那依據勞動部的分工表人身安全項目全責在各施處這設計能夠落實申訴機制嗎是可以的可以嗎有人敢申訴嗎一年有多少件\n\n26\n00:10:13,257 --> 00:10:32,766\n那為何不在本部建立統一窗口解決過度內部礙於人情壓力難以使用的問題報告委員現在這個職場霸凌都是人事單位來做處理那我們今年也有接獲一件職場霸凌\n\n27\n00:10:34,946 --> 00:10:56,279\n可是我們齁這是我們辦公室接到的齁這就是勞動部的回覆說啊你的申訴我收到啦齁僱主有設置辦法嗎沒有的話請告訴我啊你需要看醫生嗎齁可以提書送啊找專人服務請找什麼什麼如果你們對外部的企業就這樣的話那我不知道對內部到底會怎麼做\n\n28\n00:10:56,766 --> 00:10:59,207\n職場霸凌事件列為地方政府勞資爭議條處的案件,同意嗎?\n\n29\n00:11:25,962 --> 00:11:39,956\n根據勞工部份,依照《治安法》第6條第2項的規定及設置規則,我們就有一個處理的機制。故主要針對勞工自己的內部申訴做調查。若沒有做調查,我們勞檢去檢查之後,通知改正、不改正會罰3到15萬。\n\n30\n00:11:41,277 --> 00:12:07,919\n她的原因就是求助無門了嘛可是你看這個針對於要尋求你們協助的狀態裡邊似乎要尋求政府部門協助也是回復是這樣子的回復的話那怎麼可能得到協助呢我們接到申訴案件自己明確指我們地方檢察機構就會派勞檢去做檢查檢查故事我們依照這個機制做處置如果沒有我們通知改善我們再做複查複查我們就再\n\n31\n00:12:08,619 --> 00:12:12,503\n所以勞動部可不可以在一個月內會商地方政府將我們的職場霸凌案件列為勞資爭議處理項目?\n\n32\n00:12:27,492 --> 00:12:29,954\n我們會後來研究,然後給您報告,可以嗎?我覺得不是走外部\n\n33\n00:12:55,974 --> 00:13:04,362\n公務人員他們面對到這些問題然後你們又是主要的在管我們的權益的部分可能要注意到\n\n34\n00:13:05,003 --> 00:13:29,035\n所以最後就兩件事情希望我們的銓敘部這邊能建立針對公務機關建立再申訴的制度跟委託法律輔助基金會來做外部的申訴那至於我們的勞動部這邊是不是可以請我們的勞工局處在受理職場霸凌事件的時候作為我們的勞資爭議的條處\n\n35\n00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:33,546\n一週內提供書面資料。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n89\t16394\t邱政軍委員執行完畢之後我們處理臨時提案有請何部長跟雷司長\n30657\t32638\t這名公務人員本來他在生前就遭受到職場霸凌,他定調是這樣\n50067\t53048\t11月4日發生自殺、死亡事件,勞動部什麼時候開始做調查?等到新聞才有動作?\n80438\t84340\t這個事件發生後,勞動部有沒有主動跟自殺防治通報系統做通報?或是有報警或警察做通報?當時有報警有沒有跟我們的自殺防治的這個通報系統做通報?\n110700\t114425\t事件發生後是勞動部自己還是有請衛生福利部來協助對我們的家屬做一些關懷?有嗎?\n131483\t155755\t我請他們回答在事發的時候我們北分署的人事室主任跟秘書室主任全程先送到臺北醫院然後也陪同家屬然後來做後面的招魂給已臨到殯葬會館的部分然後也全程陪同家屬來做相關的一個協助然後還有國關家屬的請求的部分我們也都配合辦理上說明好\n157694\t174346\t部長想問一下按照我們的自殺防治法第6條第一項規定的防治工作裡邊我不知道勞動部有沒有弱勢就是你們辦理的自殺防治教育裡邊參加同仁占比例有多少還有你們有提供心理諮商的管道嗎每年的使用人數\n180669\t198913\t我們今年的那個說實在的我們那個心理智商我們是我們部來統整然後給各個分署來做處理如果你沒辦法回答的話就是會後是不是我們就把相關的數據提供因為這蠻重要的那下一\n210666\t227518\t三本案重從民眾來提到的時候他就是有超時工作上部長剛剛前面有委員質詢你也講說打假卡的問題表示他們工作量真的很大他只好呢先符合你們勞動法相關法規先去打了卡又再\n228078\t228398\t李卓人議員\n254613\t275084\t我可不可以借一點時間我稍微澄清一下其實我們部裡絕對不允許是不允許員工這樣打假卡沒有這個是不允許的可是工作量多到這種狀況的時候你要叫他怎麼辦呢這就是問題所以這就是我們這位員工真的太令人不捨\n276404\t303931\t對,他真的太...那你有沒有關心到主管就是交給他太多太多的工作以致於他沒有辦法負荷啊這就是我們要去檢討的地方可是我是說制度上打假卡是不對的那我們也不允許這樣的行為可是卻存在這樣的行為這是我們要檢討的地方是,我覺得如果勞動部都做不到的話你不用講說其他的企業都常有這樣狀況了因為你是一個主管機關欸是,當然當然好,那群聚部\n307000\t328837\t各位委員報告依據公務員服務法第12條的規定加班它的定義其實是長官基於業務需要指派同仁在正常的上班時間以外延長工作時間那這樣的定義之下其實是長官指派同仁才可以做加班的動作那當然我們也了解公務同仁有一些\n329377\t336002\t主管要去關懷同仁知道同仁的工作情況之下主管就要去調整工作好讓同仁不要超時的加班我們是希望達成這樣的效果\n358277\t381100\t市長不是員工要超時他勢必就變成要這樣因為工作量大到這樣的時候你要叫他有些像這個標案還有急迫性的那他死的他就是必須要去做那一樣問全序部這邊公益加班事前要上系統去申請可是主管不許可的話怎麼辦可以申請請你們下去指導嗎\n382664\t408043\t這個部分是因為它是屬於這個機關的行政管理措施如果同仁就是有不服這個或是覺得不恰當的話他可以去進行申訴走申訴的這樣一個流程好你說用走申訴那另外我要問加班費是事前編列如果請完為止的話剩下的時數強迫補修可是沒時間修啊因為工作量大這樣年底一筆勾銷那這個問題是很多年討論也多年了怎麼解決\n409515\t429768\t公務員報告因為這部分是在公務員保障法有規範那我這邊就是待會回答一下如果說是這個加班時數不能用這個加班費來補償的話那就是會進到用平時的獎勵的方式喔大概超過一半時間因為我周遭真的不管是親人朋友都有很多共敵\n430328\t430588\t李卓人議員\n449917\t476702\t所以就很遺憾全系部還是沒有講出一些積極的作為來處理那過去我們去看111的人力銀行的調查裡面83%的上班族都曾經遭遇到霸凌尤其是職屬機關職屬的主管占了44%蠻高的慣用的手法有時候是用言語那甚至有時候女性遭遇到職場霸凌的比例有時候是高出於男性\n477722\t500880\t政府部門政府部門到底有沒有去處理你們還是一個主管機關要去管這個反而是沒有特別去處理所以我就再問全序部就是說因為霸凌事實上意思是加害人對被害人從事觸犯刑法罪嫌的犯罪行為是要遭受刑法的造成\n501400\t501620\t林月琴議員\n517148\t545743\t全序部現行機制又是公務人員如果不符機關職場霸凌成立與否的決定的話得依保障法循序那個申訴和再申訴程序再提起我們的行政訴訟程序那這個程序上有準施法的地位據機關跟申訴人雙方權利平等的原則在保障我們的法的機制底下應允許人委託我們的律師協助你同意嗎\n547284\t558309\t報告委員因為這部分涉及到保障法的規範是不是請公衛保障培訓委員會來那這個階段是不是應該引進我們的法律輔助的制度來依當事人的意願提出申請\n560954\t579469\t報告委員有關那個職場霸凌的救濟的部分是由保訓會主管那保訓會在審理的時候公務人員本來就可以請律師作為他的代理人那之後不符我們的決定依現況也可以去提行相應的行政訴訟\n583462\t612183\t好再來想問勞動部部長這邊本席知道勞動部早在104年就便制定了勞動部員工安全跟衛生防護要點那依據勞動部的分工表人身安全項目全責在各施處這設計能夠落實申訴機制嗎是可以的可以嗎有人敢申訴嗎一年有多少件\n613257\t632766\t那為何不在本部建立統一窗口解決過度內部礙於人情壓力難以使用的問題報告委員現在這個職場霸凌都是人事單位來做處理那我們今年也有接獲一件職場霸凌\n634946\t656279\t可是我們齁這是我們辦公室接到的齁這就是勞動部的回覆說啊你的申訴我收到啦齁僱主有設置辦法嗎沒有的話請告訴我啊你需要看醫生嗎齁可以提書送啊找專人服務請找什麼什麼如果你們對外部的企業就這樣的話那我不知道對內部到底會怎麼做\n656766\t659207\t職場霸凌事件列為地方政府勞資爭議條處的案件,同意嗎?\n685962\t699956\t根據勞工部份,依照《治安法》第6條第2項的規定及設置規則,我們就有一個處理的機制。故主要針對勞工自己的內部申訴做調查。若沒有做調查,我們勞檢去檢查之後,通知改正、不改正會罰3到15萬。\n701277\t727919\t她的原因就是求助無門了嘛可是你看這個針對於要尋求你們協助的狀態裡邊似乎要尋求政府部門協助也是回復是這樣子的回復的話那怎麼可能得到協助呢我們接到申訴案件自己明確指我們地方檢察機構就會派勞檢去做檢查檢查故事我們依照這個機制做處置如果沒有我們通知改善我們再做複查複查我們就再\n728619\t732503\t所以勞動部可不可以在一個月內會商地方政府將我們的職場霸凌案件列為勞資爭議處理項目?\n747492\t749954\t我們會後來研究,然後給您報告,可以嗎?我覺得不是走外部\n775974\t784362\t公務人員他們面對到這些問題然後你們又是主要的在管我們的權益的部分可能要注意到\n785003\t809035\t所以最後就兩件事情希望我們的銓敘部這邊能建立針對公務機關建立再申訴的制度跟委託法律輔助基金會來做外部的申訴那至於我們的勞動部這邊是不是可以請我們的勞工局處在受理職場霸凌事件的時候作為我們的勞資爭議的條處\n811840\t813546\t一週內提供書面資料。\n","txt":"邱政軍委員執行完畢之後我們處理臨時提案有請何部長跟雷司長\n這名公務人員本來他在生前就遭受到職場霸凌,他定調是這樣\n11月4日發生自殺、死亡事件,勞動部什麼時候開始做調查?等到新聞才有動作?\n這個事件發生後,勞動部有沒有主動跟自殺防治通報系統做通報?或是有報警或警察做通報?當時有報警有沒有跟我們的自殺防治的這個通報系統做通報?\n事件發生後是勞動部自己還是有請衛生福利部來協助對我們的家屬做一些關懷?有嗎?\n我請他們回答在事發的時候我們北分署的人事室主任跟秘書室主任全程先送到臺北醫院然後也陪同家屬然後來做後面的招魂給已臨到殯葬會館的部分然後也全程陪同家屬來做相關的一個協助然後還有國關家屬的請求的部分我們也都配合辦理上說明好\n部長想問一下按照我們的自殺防治法第6條第一項規定的防治工作裡邊我不知道勞動部有沒有弱勢就是你們辦理的自殺防治教育裡邊參加同仁占比例有多少還有你們有提供心理諮商的管道嗎每年的使用人數\n我們今年的那個說實在的我們那個心理智商我們是我們部來統整然後給各個分署來做處理如果你沒辦法回答的話就是會後是不是我們就把相關的數據提供因為這蠻重要的那下一\n三本案重從民眾來提到的時候他就是有超時工作上部長剛剛前面有委員質詢你也講說打假卡的問題表示他們工作量真的很大他只好呢先符合你們勞動法相關法規先去打了卡又再\n李卓人議員\n我可不可以借一點時間我稍微澄清一下其實我們部裡絕對不允許是不允許員工這樣打假卡沒有這個是不允許的可是工作量多到這種狀況的時候你要叫他怎麼辦呢這就是問題所以這就是我們這位員工真的太令人不捨\n對,他真的太...那你有沒有關心到主管就是交給他太多太多的工作以致於他沒有辦法負荷啊這就是我們要去檢討的地方可是我是說制度上打假卡是不對的那我們也不允許這樣的行為可是卻存在這樣的行為這是我們要檢討的地方是,我覺得如果勞動部都做不到的話你不用講說其他的企業都常有這樣狀況了因為你是一個主管機關欸是,當然當然好,那群聚部\n各位委員報告依據公務員服務法第12條的規定加班它的定義其實是長官基於業務需要指派同仁在正常的上班時間以外延長工作時間那這樣的定義之下其實是長官指派同仁才可以做加班的動作那當然我們也了解公務同仁有一些\n主管要去關懷同仁知道同仁的工作情況之下主管就要去調整工作好讓同仁不要超時的加班我們是希望達成這樣的效果\n市長不是員工要超時他勢必就變成要這樣因為工作量大到這樣的時候你要叫他有些像這個標案還有急迫性的那他死的他就是必須要去做那一樣問全序部這邊公益加班事前要上系統去申請可是主管不許可的話怎麼辦可以申請請你們下去指導嗎\n這個部分是因為它是屬於這個機關的行政管理措施如果同仁就是有不服這個或是覺得不恰當的話他可以去進行申訴走申訴的這樣一個流程好你說用走申訴那另外我要問加班費是事前編列如果請完為止的話剩下的時數強迫補修可是沒時間修啊因為工作量大這樣年底一筆勾銷那這個問題是很多年討論也多年了怎麼解決\n公務員報告因為這部分是在公務員保障法有規範那我這邊就是待會回答一下如果說是這個加班時數不能用這個加班費來補償的話那就是會進到用平時的獎勵的方式喔大概超過一半時間因為我周遭真的不管是親人朋友都有很多共敵\n李卓人議員\n所以就很遺憾全系部還是沒有講出一些積極的作為來處理那過去我們去看111的人力銀行的調查裡面83%的上班族都曾經遭遇到霸凌尤其是職屬機關職屬的主管占了44%蠻高的慣用的手法有時候是用言語那甚至有時候女性遭遇到職場霸凌的比例有時候是高出於男性\n政府部門政府部門到底有沒有去處理你們還是一個主管機關要去管這個反而是沒有特別去處理所以我就再問全序部就是說因為霸凌事實上意思是加害人對被害人從事觸犯刑法罪嫌的犯罪行為是要遭受刑法的造成\n林月琴議員\n全序部現行機制又是公務人員如果不符機關職場霸凌成立與否的決定的話得依保障法循序那個申訴和再申訴程序再提起我們的行政訴訟程序那這個程序上有準施法的地位據機關跟申訴人雙方權利平等的原則在保障我們的法的機制底下應允許人委託我們的律師協助你同意嗎\n報告委員因為這部分涉及到保障法的規範是不是請公衛保障培訓委員會來那這個階段是不是應該引進我們的法律輔助的制度來依當事人的意願提出申請\n報告委員有關那個職場霸凌的救濟的部分是由保訓會主管那保訓會在審理的時候公務人員本來就可以請律師作為他的代理人那之後不符我們的決定依現況也可以去提行相應的行政訴訟\n好再來想問勞動部部長這邊本席知道勞動部早在104年就便制定了勞動部員工安全跟衛生防護要點那依據勞動部的分工表人身安全項目全責在各施處這設計能夠落實申訴機制嗎是可以的可以嗎有人敢申訴嗎一年有多少件\n那為何不在本部建立統一窗口解決過度內部礙於人情壓力難以使用的問題報告委員現在這個職場霸凌都是人事單位來做處理那我們今年也有接獲一件職場霸凌\n可是我們齁這是我們辦公室接到的齁這就是勞動部的回覆說啊你的申訴我收到啦齁僱主有設置辦法嗎沒有的話請告訴我啊你需要看醫生嗎齁可以提書送啊找專人服務請找什麼什麼如果你們對外部的企業就這樣的話那我不知道對內部到底會怎麼做\n職場霸凌事件列為地方政府勞資爭議條處的案件,同意嗎?\n根據勞工部份,依照《治安法》第6條第2項的規定及設置規則,我們就有一個處理的機制。故主要針對勞工自己的內部申訴做調查。若沒有做調查,我們勞檢去檢查之後,通知改正、不改正會罰3到15萬。\n她的原因就是求助無門了嘛可是你看這個針對於要尋求你們協助的狀態裡邊似乎要尋求政府部門協助也是回復是這樣子的回復的話那怎麼可能得到協助呢我們接到申訴案件自己明確指我們地方檢察機構就會派勞檢去做檢查檢查故事我們依照這個機制做處置如果沒有我們通知改善我們再做複查複查我們就再\n所以勞動部可不可以在一個月內會商地方政府將我們的職場霸凌案件列為勞資爭議處理項目?\n我們會後來研究,然後給您報告,可以嗎?我覺得不是走外部\n公務人員他們面對到這些問題然後你們又是主要的在管我們的權益的部分可能要注意到\n所以最後就兩件事情希望我們的銓敘部這邊能建立針對公務機關建立再申訴的制度跟委託法律輔助基金會來做外部的申訴那至於我們的勞動部這邊是不是可以請我們的勞工局處在受理職場霸凌事件的時候作為我們的勞資爭議的條處\n一週內提供書面資料。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.089 --> 00:16.394\n邱政軍委員執行完畢之後我們處理臨時提案有請何部長跟雷司長\n\n00:30.657 --> 00:32.638\n這名公務人員本來他在生前就遭受到職場霸凌,他定調是這樣\n\n00:50.067 --> 00:53.048\n11月4日發生自殺、死亡事件,勞動部什麼時候開始做調查?等到新聞才有動作?\n\n01:20.438 --> 01:24.340\n這個事件發生後,勞動部有沒有主動跟自殺防治通報系統做通報?或是有報警或警察做通報?當時有報警有沒有跟我們的自殺防治的這個通報系統做通報?\n\n01:50.700 --> 01:54.425\n事件發生後是勞動部自己還是有請衛生福利部來協助對我們的家屬做一些關懷?有嗎?\n\n02:11.483 --> 02:35.755\n我請他們回答在事發的時候我們北分署的人事室主任跟秘書室主任全程先送到臺北醫院然後也陪同家屬然後來做後面的招魂給已臨到殯葬會館的部分然後也全程陪同家屬來做相關的一個協助然後還有國關家屬的請求的部分我們也都配合辦理上說明好\n\n02:37.694 --> 02:54.346\n部長想問一下按照我們的自殺防治法第6條第一項規定的防治工作裡邊我不知道勞動部有沒有弱勢就是你們辦理的自殺防治教育裡邊參加同仁占比例有多少還有你們有提供心理諮商的管道嗎每年的使用人數\n\n03:00.669 --> 03:18.913\n我們今年的那個說實在的我們那個心理智商我們是我們部來統整然後給各個分署來做處理如果你沒辦法回答的話就是會後是不是我們就把相關的數據提供因為這蠻重要的那下一\n\n03:30.666 --> 03:47.518\n三本案重從民眾來提到的時候他就是有超時工作上部長剛剛前面有委員質詢你也講說打假卡的問題表示他們工作量真的很大他只好呢先符合你們勞動法相關法規先去打了卡又再\n\n03:48.078 --> 03:48.398\n李卓人議員\n\n04:14.613 --> 04:35.084\n我可不可以借一點時間我稍微澄清一下其實我們部裡絕對不允許是不允許員工這樣打假卡沒有這個是不允許的可是工作量多到這種狀況的時候你要叫他怎麼辦呢這就是問題所以這就是我們這位員工真的太令人不捨\n\n04:36.404 --> 05:03.931\n對,他真的太...那你有沒有關心到主管就是交給他太多太多的工作以致於他沒有辦法負荷啊這就是我們要去檢討的地方可是我是說制度上打假卡是不對的那我們也不允許這樣的行為可是卻存在這樣的行為這是我們要檢討的地方是,我覺得如果勞動部都做不到的話你不用講說其他的企業都常有這樣狀況了因為你是一個主管機關欸是,當然當然好,那群聚部\n\n05:07.000 --> 05:28.837\n各位委員報告依據公務員服務法第12條的規定加班它的定義其實是長官基於業務需要指派同仁在正常的上班時間以外延長工作時間那這樣的定義之下其實是長官指派同仁才可以做加班的動作那當然我們也了解公務同仁有一些\n\n05:29.377 --> 05:36.002\n主管要去關懷同仁知道同仁的工作情況之下主管就要去調整工作好讓同仁不要超時的加班我們是希望達成這樣的效果\n\n05:58.277 --> 06:21.100\n市長不是員工要超時他勢必就變成要這樣因為工作量大到這樣的時候你要叫他有些像這個標案還有急迫性的那他死的他就是必須要去做那一樣問全序部這邊公益加班事前要上系統去申請可是主管不許可的話怎麼辦可以申請請你們下去指導嗎\n\n06:22.664 --> 06:48.043\n這個部分是因為它是屬於這個機關的行政管理措施如果同仁就是有不服這個或是覺得不恰當的話他可以去進行申訴走申訴的這樣一個流程好你說用走申訴那另外我要問加班費是事前編列如果請完為止的話剩下的時數強迫補修可是沒時間修啊因為工作量大這樣年底一筆勾銷那這個問題是很多年討論也多年了怎麼解決\n\n06:49.515 --> 07:09.768\n公務員報告因為這部分是在公務員保障法有規範那我這邊就是待會回答一下如果說是這個加班時數不能用這個加班費來補償的話那就是會進到用平時的獎勵的方式喔大概超過一半時間因為我周遭真的不管是親人朋友都有很多共敵\n\n07:10.328 --> 07:10.588\n李卓人議員\n\n07:29.917 --> 07:56.702\n所以就很遺憾全系部還是沒有講出一些積極的作為來處理那過去我們去看111的人力銀行的調查裡面83%的上班族都曾經遭遇到霸凌尤其是職屬機關職屬的主管占了44%蠻高的慣用的手法有時候是用言語那甚至有時候女性遭遇到職場霸凌的比例有時候是高出於男性\n\n07:57.722 --> 08:20.880\n政府部門政府部門到底有沒有去處理你們還是一個主管機關要去管這個反而是沒有特別去處理所以我就再問全序部就是說因為霸凌事實上意思是加害人對被害人從事觸犯刑法罪嫌的犯罪行為是要遭受刑法的造成\n\n08:21.400 --> 08:21.620\n林月琴議員\n\n08:37.148 --> 09:05.743\n全序部現行機制又是公務人員如果不符機關職場霸凌成立與否的決定的話得依保障法循序那個申訴和再申訴程序再提起我們的行政訴訟程序那這個程序上有準施法的地位據機關跟申訴人雙方權利平等的原則在保障我們的法的機制底下應允許人委託我們的律師協助你同意嗎\n\n09:07.284 --> 09:18.309\n報告委員因為這部分涉及到保障法的規範是不是請公衛保障培訓委員會來那這個階段是不是應該引進我們的法律輔助的制度來依當事人的意願提出申請\n\n09:20.954 --> 09:39.469\n報告委員有關那個職場霸凌的救濟的部分是由保訓會主管那保訓會在審理的時候公務人員本來就可以請律師作為他的代理人那之後不符我們的決定依現況也可以去提行相應的行政訴訟\n\n09:43.462 --> 10:12.183\n好再來想問勞動部部長這邊本席知道勞動部早在104年就便制定了勞動部員工安全跟衛生防護要點那依據勞動部的分工表人身安全項目全責在各施處這設計能夠落實申訴機制嗎是可以的可以嗎有人敢申訴嗎一年有多少件\n\n10:13.257 --> 10:32.766\n那為何不在本部建立統一窗口解決過度內部礙於人情壓力難以使用的問題報告委員現在這個職場霸凌都是人事單位來做處理那我們今年也有接獲一件職場霸凌\n\n10:34.946 --> 10:56.279\n可是我們齁這是我們辦公室接到的齁這就是勞動部的回覆說啊你的申訴我收到啦齁僱主有設置辦法嗎沒有的話請告訴我啊你需要看醫生嗎齁可以提書送啊找專人服務請找什麼什麼如果你們對外部的企業就這樣的話那我不知道對內部到底會怎麼做\n\n10:56.766 --> 10:59.207\n職場霸凌事件列為地方政府勞資爭議條處的案件,同意嗎?\n\n11:25.962 --> 11:39.956\n根據勞工部份,依照《治安法》第6條第2項的規定及設置規則,我們就有一個處理的機制。故主要針對勞工自己的內部申訴做調查。若沒有做調查,我們勞檢去檢查之後,通知改正、不改正會罰3到15萬。\n\n11:41.277 --> 12:07.919\n她的原因就是求助無門了嘛可是你看這個針對於要尋求你們協助的狀態裡邊似乎要尋求政府部門協助也是回復是這樣子的回復的話那怎麼可能得到協助呢我們接到申訴案件自己明確指我們地方檢察機構就會派勞檢去做檢查檢查故事我們依照這個機制做處置如果沒有我們通知改善我們再做複查複查我們就再\n\n12:08.619 --> 12:12.503\n所以勞動部可不可以在一個月內會商地方政府將我們的職場霸凌案件列為勞資爭議處理項目?\n\n12:27.492 --> 12:29.954\n我們會後來研究,然後給您報告,可以嗎?我覺得不是走外部\n\n12:55.974 --> 13:04.362\n公務人員他們面對到這些問題然後你們又是主要的在管我們的權益的部分可能要注意到\n\n13:05.003 --> 13:29.035\n所以最後就兩件事情希望我們的銓敘部這邊能建立針對公務機關建立再申訴的制度跟委託法律輔助基金會來做外部的申訴那至於我們的勞動部這邊是不是可以請我們的勞工局處在受理職場霸凌事件的時候作為我們的勞資爭議的條處\n\n13:31.840 --> 13:33.546\n一週內提供書面資料。\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.089,"end":16.394,"text":"邱政軍委員執行完畢之後我們處理臨時提案有請何部長跟雷司長"},{"start":30.657,"end":32.638,"text":"這名公務人員本來他在生前就遭受到職場霸凌,他定調是這樣"},{"start":50.067,"end":53.048,"text":"11月4日發生自殺、死亡事件,勞動部什麼時候開始做調查?等到新聞才有動作?"},{"start":80.438,"end":84.34,"text":"這個事件發生後,勞動部有沒有主動跟自殺防治通報系統做通報?或是有報警或警察做通報?當時有報警有沒有跟我們的自殺防治的這個通報系統做通報?"},{"start":110.7,"end":114.425,"text":"事件發生後是勞動部自己還是有請衛生福利部來協助對我們的家屬做一些關懷?有嗎?"},{"start":131.483,"end":155.755,"text":"我請他們回答在事發的時候我們北分署的人事室主任跟秘書室主任全程先送到臺北醫院然後也陪同家屬然後來做後面的招魂給已臨到殯葬會館的部分然後也全程陪同家屬來做相關的一個協助然後還有國關家屬的請求的部分我們也都配合辦理上說明好"},{"start":157.694,"end":174.346,"text":"部長想問一下按照我們的自殺防治法第6條第一項規定的防治工作裡邊我不知道勞動部有沒有弱勢就是你們辦理的自殺防治教育裡邊參加同仁占比例有多少還有你們有提供心理諮商的管道嗎每年的使用人數"},{"start":180.669,"end":198.913,"text":"我們今年的那個說實在的我們那個心理智商我們是我們部來統整然後給各個分署來做處理如果你沒辦法回答的話就是會後是不是我們就把相關的數據提供因為這蠻重要的那下一"},{"start":210.666,"end":227.518,"text":"三本案重從民眾來提到的時候他就是有超時工作上部長剛剛前面有委員質詢你也講說打假卡的問題表示他們工作量真的很大他只好呢先符合你們勞動法相關法規先去打了卡又再"},{"start":228.078,"end":228.398,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":254.613,"end":275.084,"text":"我可不可以借一點時間我稍微澄清一下其實我們部裡絕對不允許是不允許員工這樣打假卡沒有這個是不允許的可是工作量多到這種狀況的時候你要叫他怎麼辦呢這就是問題所以這就是我們這位員工真的太令人不捨"},{"start":276.404,"end":303.931,"text":"對,他真的太...那你有沒有關心到主管就是交給他太多太多的工作以致於他沒有辦法負荷啊這就是我們要去檢討的地方可是我是說制度上打假卡是不對的那我們也不允許這樣的行為可是卻存在這樣的行為這是我們要檢討的地方是,我覺得如果勞動部都做不到的話你不用講說其他的企業都常有這樣狀況了因為你是一個主管機關欸是,當然當然好,那群聚部"},{"start":307,"end":328.837,"text":"各位委員報告依據公務員服務法第12條的規定加班它的定義其實是長官基於業務需要指派同仁在正常的上班時間以外延長工作時間那這樣的定義之下其實是長官指派同仁才可以做加班的動作那當然我們也了解公務同仁有一些"},{"start":329.377,"end":336.002,"text":"主管要去關懷同仁知道同仁的工作情況之下主管就要去調整工作好讓同仁不要超時的加班我們是希望達成這樣的效果"},{"start":358.277,"end":381.1,"text":"市長不是員工要超時他勢必就變成要這樣因為工作量大到這樣的時候你要叫他有些像這個標案還有急迫性的那他死的他就是必須要去做那一樣問全序部這邊公益加班事前要上系統去申請可是主管不許可的話怎麼辦可以申請請你們下去指導嗎"},{"start":382.664,"end":408.043,"text":"這個部分是因為它是屬於這個機關的行政管理措施如果同仁就是有不服這個或是覺得不恰當的話他可以去進行申訴走申訴的這樣一個流程好你說用走申訴那另外我要問加班費是事前編列如果請完為止的話剩下的時數強迫補修可是沒時間修啊因為工作量大這樣年底一筆勾銷那這個問題是很多年討論也多年了怎麼解決"},{"start":409.515,"end":429.768,"text":"公務員報告因為這部分是在公務員保障法有規範那我這邊就是待會回答一下如果說是這個加班時數不能用這個加班費來補償的話那就是會進到用平時的獎勵的方式喔大概超過一半時間因為我周遭真的不管是親人朋友都有很多共敵"},{"start":430.328,"end":430.588,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":449.917,"end":476.702,"text":"所以就很遺憾全系部還是沒有講出一些積極的作為來處理那過去我們去看111的人力銀行的調查裡面83%的上班族都曾經遭遇到霸凌尤其是職屬機關職屬的主管占了44%蠻高的慣用的手法有時候是用言語那甚至有時候女性遭遇到職場霸凌的比例有時候是高出於男性"},{"start":477.722,"end":500.88,"text":"政府部門政府部門到底有沒有去處理你們還是一個主管機關要去管這個反而是沒有特別去處理所以我就再問全序部就是說因為霸凌事實上意思是加害人對被害人從事觸犯刑法罪嫌的犯罪行為是要遭受刑法的造成"},{"start":501.4,"end":501.62,"text":"林月琴議員"},{"start":517.148,"end":545.743,"text":"全序部現行機制又是公務人員如果不符機關職場霸凌成立與否的決定的話得依保障法循序那個申訴和再申訴程序再提起我們的行政訴訟程序那這個程序上有準施法的地位據機關跟申訴人雙方權利平等的原則在保障我們的法的機制底下應允許人委託我們的律師協助你同意嗎"},{"start":547.284,"end":558.309,"text":"報告委員因為這部分涉及到保障法的規範是不是請公衛保障培訓委員會來那這個階段是不是應該引進我們的法律輔助的制度來依當事人的意願提出申請"},{"start":560.954,"end":579.469,"text":"報告委員有關那個職場霸凌的救濟的部分是由保訓會主管那保訓會在審理的時候公務人員本來就可以請律師作為他的代理人那之後不符我們的決定依現況也可以去提行相應的行政訴訟"},{"start":583.462,"end":612.183,"text":"好再來想問勞動部部長這邊本席知道勞動部早在104年就便制定了勞動部員工安全跟衛生防護要點那依據勞動部的分工表人身安全項目全責在各施處這設計能夠落實申訴機制嗎是可以的可以嗎有人敢申訴嗎一年有多少件"},{"start":613.257,"end":632.766,"text":"那為何不在本部建立統一窗口解決過度內部礙於人情壓力難以使用的問題報告委員現在這個職場霸凌都是人事單位來做處理那我們今年也有接獲一件職場霸凌"},{"start":634.946,"end":656.279,"text":"可是我們齁這是我們辦公室接到的齁這就是勞動部的回覆說啊你的申訴我收到啦齁僱主有設置辦法嗎沒有的話請告訴我啊你需要看醫生嗎齁可以提書送啊找專人服務請找什麼什麼如果你們對外部的企業就這樣的話那我不知道對內部到底會怎麼做"},{"start":656.766,"end":659.207,"text":"職場霸凌事件列為地方政府勞資爭議條處的案件,同意嗎?"},{"start":685.962,"end":699.956,"text":"根據勞工部份,依照《治安法》第6條第2項的規定及設置規則,我們就有一個處理的機制。故主要針對勞工自己的內部申訴做調查。若沒有做調查,我們勞檢去檢查之後,通知改正、不改正會罰3到15萬。"},{"start":701.277,"end":727.919,"text":"她的原因就是求助無門了嘛可是你看這個針對於要尋求你們協助的狀態裡邊似乎要尋求政府部門協助也是回復是這樣子的回復的話那怎麼可能得到協助呢我們接到申訴案件自己明確指我們地方檢察機構就會派勞檢去做檢查檢查故事我們依照這個機制做處置如果沒有我們通知改善我們再做複查複查我們就再"},{"start":728.619,"end":732.503,"text":"所以勞動部可不可以在一個月內會商地方政府將我們的職場霸凌案件列為勞資爭議處理項目?"},{"start":747.492,"end":749.954,"text":"我們會後來研究,然後給您報告,可以嗎?我覺得不是走外部"},{"start":775.974,"end":784.362,"text":"公務人員他們面對到這些問題然後你們又是主要的在管我們的權益的部分可能要注意到"},{"start":785.003,"end":809.035,"text":"所以最後就兩件事情希望我們的銓敘部這邊能建立針對公務機關建立再申訴的制度跟委託法律輔助基金會來做外部的申訴那至於我們的勞動部這邊是不是可以請我們的勞工局處在受理職場霸凌事件的時候作為我們的勞資爭議的條處"},{"start":811.84,"end":813.546,"text":"一週內提供書面資料。"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":932,"blocks":[["林委員月琴：（11時20分）好，有請何部長和雷司長。"],["主席：請何部長、雷司長。"],["何部長佩珊：委員好。"],["林委員月琴：部長早上應該一直被問到這件事，因為11月4日發生的這件事情，大家都很難過。在事件之後，也有民眾向我們辦公室陳情，這名公務人員生前就遭受到職場霸凌，他的定調是這樣，而且他正在研擬一份該署的政府標案，在這個過程當中不斷被退件，為了滿足主管要求反覆修正，當然就會產生超過工時的問題。","所以本席想問，雖然剛剛秀芳委員有問過，11月4日發生這樣的自殺死亡事件，勞動部什麼時候開始調查？是不是等到新聞報導才有動作？本席說的是調查。"],["何部長佩珊：並不是等到新聞報導才有動作，而是本來……"],["林委員月琴：你們什麼時候啟動調查？"],["何部長佩珊：11月8日。"],["林委員月琴：11月8日才啟動調查？"],["何部長佩珊：對。"],["林委員月琴：再續問部長，按照自殺防治法第十一條，這個事件發生後，勞動部有沒有主動向自殺防治通報系統進行通報？或是報警由警察進行通報？"],["何部長佩珊：當時有報警。"],["林委員月琴：有沒有向自殺防治通報系統進行通報？"],["姜處長碧琳：我們當時有進行通報，北分署那邊也有處理，我們也同步啟動員工協助方案。"],["林委員月琴：事件發生後，是勞動部自己處理，還是有請衛生福利部協助對家屬關懷？有嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：我請他們回答。"],["曾主任筱尹：事發的時候，我們北分署的人事室主任和秘書室主任，全程陪同先送到臺北醫院，也陪同家屬做後面的招魂及移靈到殯葬會館，全程陪同家屬做相關協助，有關家屬的請求部分，我們也都配合辦理，以上說明。"],["林委員月琴：部長，請問一下，自殺防治法第六條第一項規定的防治工作，勞動部有沒有落實？你們辦理的自殺防治教育，參加的同仁占比多少？你們有提供心理諮商的管道嗎？每年的使用人數？"],["姜處長碧琳：我們的心理諮商是由本部統整，然後給各分署處理，那……"],["林委員月琴：如果你現在沒辦法回答的話，會後是不是給本席資料？"],["姜處長碧琳：好，我們會把相關的數據提供給委員。"],["林委員月琴：因為這滿重要的。民眾提到本案的時候，有說到他超時工作，部長，剛剛有委員質詢，你也說到打假卡的問題，表示他們的工作量真的很大，所以他只好先符合你們的相關法規，先去打卡再回來繼續工作，甚至下班後還要回復訊息，有時候假日即使沒有登記，還是要回去工作。所以本席現在要問銓敘部，這種未經登記自行加班的狀況，對公務人員，特別是地方政府局處、部會人員，以及各級機關辦理採購業務或是計算薪資鐘點的人員，你們有去了解過狀況嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：委員，我可不可以借一點時間稍微澄清一下？其實我們部裡絕對不允許員工打假卡，這是不允許的。"],["林委員月琴：可是工作量多到這種狀況的時候，你叫他怎麼辦呢？"],["何部長佩珊：對，這就是問題，我們這位員工真的太令人不捨。"],["林委員月琴：你們有沒有去關心？主管就是交給他太多工作，以至於他沒有辦法負荷啊！"],["何部長佩珊：是的，這就是我們要檢討的地方。我是說制度上，打假卡是不對的，我們也不允許這樣的行為，可是現實卻存在這樣的行為，這是我們要檢討的地方。"],["林委員月琴：本席覺得如果連勞動部都做不到的話，更不用說其他企業也常有這樣的狀況，因為你們是主管機關。"],["何部長佩珊：是，當然。"],["林委員月琴：請銓敘部說明。"],["雷司長諶：依據公務人員服務法第十二條規定，加班的定義其實是長官基於業務需要，指派同仁在正常的上班時間以外，延長工作時間，在這樣的定義之下，其實是長官指派，同仁才可以做加班的動作。當然，我們也了解有一些公務同仁份外盡責，即便長官沒有指派，他可能也會自己延長辦公時間，但是就法制上而言，我們不鼓勵這樣做，我們希望主管……"],["林委員月琴：雖然不鼓勵，但重點是當工作量多到這樣的狀況時，他必須這樣做。"],["雷司長諶：所以主管要去關懷同仁，知道同仁的工作情況之後，主管就要調整工作，讓同仁不要超時加班，我們希望達成這樣的效果。"],["林委員月琴：司長，不是員工要不要超時，而是他勢必要這樣做，因為工作量大到這種程度，像這個標案還有急迫性，導致他必須要去做。一樣請問銓敘部，關於加班，事前要上系統申請，可是主管不許可的話怎麼辦？可以請你們去指導嗎？"],["雷司長諶：因為這個部分屬於機關的行政管理措施，如果同仁有不服，或是覺得不恰當的話，他可以進行申訴，走申訴的流程。"],["林委員月琴：另外本席要問，加班費是事前編列，用完為止，剩下的時數就是強迫補休，可是他們沒時間休啊！因為工作量大到這種程度，所以到了年底就一筆勾銷，這個問題討論多年了，怎麼解決？"],["雷司長諶：因為這部分在公務人員保障法有規範，我代為回答，如果加班時數不能用加班費補償的話，就會以平時的獎勵方式處理，大概超過一段時間就會用獎勵……"],["林委員月琴：什麼獎勵？因為在本席周遭，包括親人、朋友，很多都是公務員，每次超過的部分，通通都是算自願奉獻國家，但那種過時的勞動真的讓人很崩潰。面對這樣的工作環境，對外，民眾有很多要求；對內，工作量又這麼大，他怎麼調適？所以很遺憾，銓敘部還是沒有提出一些積極的作為。","我們看111人力銀行的調查，83%的上班族都曾經遭遇霸凌，尤其是直屬主管，占了44%，比例真的滿高的，慣用的手法有時候是言語，甚至有時候女性遭遇職場霸凌的比例高於男性，包含政府部門也是一樣。本席不知道政府部門到底有沒有去處理，你們是主管機關，負責管這個部分，結果卻沒有特別的作為。","本席要再請問銓敘部，「霸凌」意思就是加害人對被害人觸犯刑法罪嫌的犯罪行為，這是要遭受刑法處分的，如果造成身體上的傷害或是心理上的傷害，可以提出民事訴訟要求賠償，因為雇主要負責預防身體、精神衛生和暴力事件的發生，所以雇主也有連帶賠償責任。","所以想問銓敘部，就現行機制，如果公務人員不服機關職場霸凌成立與否的決定，得依保障法提出申訴和再申訴，甚至再提起行政訴訟，這個程序有準司法的地位，基於機關和申訴人雙方權利平等的原則，在相關保障的法律機制底下，應允許委託律師協助，你同意嗎？"],["雷司長諶：因為這部分涉及到保障法的規範，是不是請公務人員保障及培訓委員會報告？"],["林委員月琴：這個階段是不是應該引進法律扶助制度，依當事人的意願提出申請？"],["黃處長秀琴：有關職場霸凌的救濟部分，是由保訓會主管，保訓會在審理的時候，公務人員本來就可以請律師做他的代理人，如果不服我們的決定，依現況也可以提相應的行政訴訟。"],["林委員月琴：好。再來想問勞動部部長，本席知道勞動部早在104年就制定勞動部員工安全和衛生防護要點，依據勞動部的分工表，人身安全項目權責在各司處，這個設計能夠落實申訴機制嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：是，可以的。"],["林委員月琴：可以嗎？有人敢申訴嗎？一年有多少件？為何不在本部建立統一窗口，解決內部礙於人情壓力難以使用的問題？"],["姜處長碧琳：現在職場霸凌都是人事單位處理，我們今年也有接獲一件職場霸凌案。"],["林委員月琴：這是我們辦公室接到的陳情，勞動部的回復就是「你的申訴我們收到了」、「雇主有設置辦法嗎？沒有的話，請告訴我們。」、「你需要看醫生嗎？」、可以提訴訟或者「找專人服務等等，請找……」，如果你們對外部企業就是這樣做的話，本席不知道對內部到底會怎麼做，因為對勞工來說，他們需要得到一些協助，可是你們的回復卻是這樣。所以想問一下勞動部，這是本辦處理的案件，是勞工們給我們的資訊，你們是不是應該把職場霸凌事件列為地方政府勞資爭議調處的案件？同意嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：委員，我請同仁回復。"],["鄒署長子廉：勞工部分依照職安法第六條第二項規定及設置規則就有一個處理機制，雇主要針對勞工的內部申訴進行調查，如果沒有進行調查，我們勞檢時會通知改善，不改善會罰3到15萬元，所以我們的機制就是會……"],["林委員月琴：他就是求助無門嘛！你看，要尋求你們協助時，似乎要尋求政府部門協助，也是這樣的回覆，他怎麼可能得到協助呢？"],["鄒署長子廉：我們接到申訴案件，只要資訊明確，地方檢查機構就會派勞檢員去做檢查，檢查雇主有沒有依照這個機制處置，如果沒有，我們會通知改善，之後會再做複查，複查時也沒有做，我們就會針對雇主沒有處置的部分處罰3萬到15萬元，後續也會再要求雇主針對這個個案做內部處理。"],["林委員月琴：勞動部可不可以在一個月內會商地方政府，將職場霸凌案件列為勞資爭議處理項目？"],["何部長佩珊：我們請相關業務的司長回答一下。委員，這也要根據事實啦！"],["王司長厚偉：這不是調解，你進我退，然後各退一步，這兩個不太一樣。"],["何部長佩珊：委員，我們會後研究後給您報告，可以嗎？"],["林委員月琴：本席覺得這不是只有外部會發生，公務人員也會面對這些問題，而你們又是主要機關，負責主管權益的部分，所以你們要注意這件事。","最後就是兩件事情，希望銓敘部針對公務機關建立再申訴制度，以及委託法律扶助基金會做外部申訴。至於勞動部，是不是可以請勞工局處受理職場霸凌事件的時候，將它列為勞資爭議調處？一周內提供書面資料，以上，謝謝。"],["何部長佩珊：好，沒問題。"],["主席：謝謝林委員。","接續請邱鎮軍委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":360,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-9","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","林淑芬","王育敏","劉建國","黃秀芳","王正旭","林月琴","邱鎮軍","王育敏","陳瑩","楊曜","涂權吉","盧縣一","廖偉翔","郭國文","楊瓊瓔","黃健豪","徐巧芯","麥玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","洪孟楷","李彥秀","黃國昌","葉元之","邱若華","洪申翰","牛煦庭","羅智強","鄭正鈐","林倩綺","羅廷瑋","張雅琳","林國成","張嘉郡","柯志恩","萬美玲"],"page_start":231,"meetingDate":["2024-11-20"],"gazette_id":"11310201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310201_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請勞動部部長、銓敘部、國防部、內政部警政署、內政部消防署、行政院人事行政總處、考試\n院、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會、教育部及國家科學及技術委員會就「職場霸凌防治與處理作\n業」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"11310201_00012"}}}