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313.524, \"end\": 330.541, \"text\": \"那麼我想請問一下次長可能會更清楚一點我們到目前為止跟美國談判裡面是不是有觸及或者是答應美國牛絞肉的進口或者是還有包括對美國豬肾的它的萊劑的提供\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 313.524, \"end\": 313.804, \"score\": 0.681}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 313.804, \"end\": 313.925, \"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 313.925, \"end\": 314.365, \"score\": 0.74}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 314.365, \"end\": 314.485, \"score\": 0.763}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 314.485, \"end\": 314.725, \"score\": 0.748}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 314.725, \"end\": 315.086, \"score\": 0.772}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 315.086, \"end\": 315.206, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 315.206, \"end\": 315.446, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"更\", \"start\": 315.446, \"end\": 315.626, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"清\", \"start\": 315.626, \"end\": 315.846, \"score\": 0.708}, {\"word\": \"楚\", \"start\": 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00:01:02,570\n其實世界各國都有一些準備那我要直接問次長的事央行在前幾天做了一個建議因為我們也被美國再度列為匯率操縱國所以央行在建議說台灣可以擴大採購美國的石油\n\n5\n00:01:07,992 --> 00:01:27,246\n那麼這個可以看到包含在韓國也表示說可能擴大對美國採購採購石油跟天然氣那麼歐洲美國是直接點名歐洲應該跟美國採購更多的天然氣那所以在這邊我想請教一下針對中央銀行的建議台灣可以擴大採購美國石油請問一下經濟部贊成嗎那會付諸具體的行動嗎\n\n6\n00:01:35,731 --> 00:01:52,996\n外委員目前我們採購的進口石油美國的比例大概接近30%那第二大來源天然氣美國的比例大概10%左右大概是第三大來源就經濟部立場在商業條件可行的情況下我們當然會來考慮\n\n7\n00:01:54,264 --> 00:02:20,401\n所以可以考慮增加對能源方面的採購對不對好那但是呢這個問題我也同樣問過中央銀行就是事實上比如說像天然氣我們主要的是來自於亞洲嘛也是基於這個價格啦或者是有一些外交上的考量那如果因為不管是天然氣也好或者石油也好其實呢這個船運的時間越長事實上它的成本會越高\n\n8\n00:02:21,121 --> 00:02:32,497\n那所以他有一種可能就是我增加對美國的採購因為美國離我們比較遠那麼會使得我們的能源價格成本因此而墊高有沒有這樣的可能的顧忌跟考量\n\n9\n00:02:33,611 --> 00:03:01,765\n所以我剛剛有先報告就是說當然從能源安全的角度不管價格多少我們一定要分散來源這是第一個條件第一個條件我們採購的時候也要看商業條件合理我們會來考慮那麼商業條件有很多複雜的做法比方說它是長約還是中程還是短約或者現貨市場都不一樣這個是可以搭配但是我們就要做一個比較合理的商業模式那我們就會考慮來採購所以未來提高對美國的\n\n10\n00:03:02,925 --> 00:03:02,965\n王鴻薇議員\n\n11\n00:03:21,525 --> 00:03:39,029\n因為如果你對美國石油採購為了要付保護費然後使得我們的石油的成本提高或者為了要付保護費我們的天然氣成本提高就直接我們的電價就會上漲所以它必須基於在一個油電價格穩定不會上漲的狀況才可以另外請教次長21世紀台美貿易倡議首批協定請問生效了嗎簽訂是簽訂但是生效了嗎\n\n12\n00:03:50,892 --> 00:04:18,000\n美國方面的程序好像還沒有完成還沒有完成主要是國會還沒有通過對不對?國會他的程序是總統要certify要先認證說我方已經完全執行了然後他再提交跟國會報告好那我想請問現在正值新舊總統政權交接那麼因為我們事實上在去年就已經完成簽訂對不對?有簽署但是始終因為沒有生效就是因為美國國會沒有通過\n\n13\n00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:42,776\n那這樣子的一個政權交替的過程會不會使得我們這個首批協定的生效出現變數我們覺得這個協定基本上當時是美國國會兩黨的共識來推動的在目前看起來應該是美國國會程序比較慢這個他對世界各國的例子都是這個樣子\n\n14\n00:04:43,536 --> 00:05:10,663\n所以它有沒有可能發生嘛最後政權替換了這個可能性我們來觀察但是我現在沒有辦法所以要觀察因為不要等於白談了另外我還是關心的是就是事實上我們跟美國一直在有這個貿易談判而美國一直在其實一直在點名的就是我們對於包含對於美豬包含對於美牛的相關的禁令那所以昨天我也問了這個院長和部長\n\n15\n00:05:13,524 --> 00:05:30,541\n那麼我想請問一下次長可能會更清楚一點我們到目前為止跟美國談判裡面是不是有觸及或者是答應美國牛絞肉的進口或者是還有包括對美國豬肾的它的萊劑的提供\n\n16\n00:05:31,752 --> 00:05:56,296\n報告委員這個部分我個人這邊沒有訊息你這邊完全沒有訊息因為談判不是在經濟部來主導所以部分我這邊沒有訊息對啊很可惜啊今天那個我本來問這個經貿辦公室今天沒有人來那但是我在這邊還是因為我們這都有記錄還是有一點就是我們必須要在食安的部分一定要把關因為美國是一直對美牛美豬啊對我們很不爽啊\n\n17\n00:05:56,576 --> 00:05:56,616\n王鴻薇議員\n\n18\n00:06:19,998 --> 00:06:34,144\n市長好請問一下現在我們的部長人在立陶宛嗎?是的在立陶宛他有沒有可能發生一個狀況他現在帶團出去然後呢立陶宛改變就是我們台灣辦事處的名稱\n\n19\n00:06:36,716 --> 00:07:02,542\n這個案子其實在醞釀一段時間了哪一個案子你說改變名稱這個案子嗎那麼當時成立這個是雙方政府經過一些協商所造出來的結果那麼他要改的話我們也不讓他片面有機會去改我們要堅持我們的立場可是如果人家要改呢就像人家南非要讓我們辦事處簽出首都啊\n\n20\n00:07:04,864 --> 00:07:25,752\n南非的案子我們並沒有屈服目前還在談所以台灣辦事處我們也不屈服是不是我們目前的態度是這樣子那如果人家要改呢那麼我們要經過適當的方式來協商而且我們也要透過一些理念相近的國家與我們支持\n\n21\n00:07:26,451 --> 00:07:32,136\n所以這個部分我們會力爭到底我要講的是其實剛才馬文俊委員也特別提到我們今天部長去訪問立陶宛我很怕我們面臨到一個非常尷尬的局面我們的部長堂堂部長在立陶宛人家立陶宛要求我們要把台灣辦事處的名稱給取消掉我曾經問過當時吳釗燮擔任外交部長我說如果改變我們的台灣辦事處名稱他要不要負責他願意負責下台負責\n\n22\n00:07:56,095 --> 00:07:58,057\n現在他到了國安會,如果部長都到立陶宛,再度的跟立陶宛示好,還把所謂的無人機國家隊也送過去了,我們半導體技術也送了,投資也送了,萊姆酒也喝了,通通都喝了。\n\n23\n00:08:14,990 --> 00:08:28,849\n結果現在來吃我們豆腐說台灣辦事處要改變我們當然我贊成我們外交部的態度但是一旦改變的話那我當然在這邊講一定要有人負政治責任\n\n24\n00:08:29,870 --> 00:08:29,950\n主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n730\t5255\t我先請我們經濟部政務次長請陳次長委員好\n14708\t26121\t市長好,這次美國總統大選之後,其實世界各國都在為川普上台來做準備,因為川普上台之後,其實對全世界的經濟都會造成引力的衝擊。\n30385\t31967\t尤其針對台灣的部分川普說要付保護費可是我們現在所理解的所謂的保護費並不僅僅止於軍事的部分甚至在一些經貿部分還有採購的部分\n46224\t62570\t其實世界各國都有一些準備那我要直接問次長的事央行在前幾天做了一個建議因為我們也被美國再度列為匯率操縱國所以央行在建議說台灣可以擴大採購美國的石油\n67992\t87246\t那麼這個可以看到包含在韓國也表示說可能擴大對美國採購採購石油跟天然氣那麼歐洲美國是直接點名歐洲應該跟美國採購更多的天然氣那所以在這邊我想請教一下針對中央銀行的建議台灣可以擴大採購美國石油請問一下經濟部贊成嗎那會付諸具體的行動嗎\n95731\t112996\t外委員目前我們採購的進口石油美國的比例大概接近30%那第二大來源天然氣美國的比例大概10%左右大概是第三大來源就經濟部立場在商業條件可行的情況下我們當然會來考慮\n114264\t140401\t所以可以考慮增加對能源方面的採購對不對好那但是呢這個問題我也同樣問過中央銀行就是事實上比如說像天然氣我們主要的是來自於亞洲嘛也是基於這個價格啦或者是有一些外交上的考量那如果因為不管是天然氣也好或者石油也好其實呢這個船運的時間越長事實上它的成本會越高\n141121\t152497\t那所以他有一種可能就是我增加對美國的採購因為美國離我們比較遠那麼會使得我們的能源價格成本因此而墊高有沒有這樣的可能的顧忌跟考量\n153611\t181765\t所以我剛剛有先報告就是說當然從能源安全的角度不管價格多少我們一定要分散來源這是第一個條件第一個條件我們採購的時候也要看商業條件合理我們會來考慮那麼商業條件有很多複雜的做法比方說它是長約還是中程還是短約或者現貨市場都不一樣這個是可以搭配但是我們就要做一個比較合理的商業模式那我們就會考慮來採購所以未來提高對美國的\n182925\t182965\t王鴻薇議員\n201525\t219029\t因為如果你對美國石油採購為了要付保護費然後使得我們的石油的成本提高或者為了要付保護費我們的天然氣成本提高就直接我們的電價就會上漲所以它必須基於在一個油電價格穩定不會上漲的狀況才可以另外請教次長21世紀台美貿易倡議首批協定請問生效了嗎簽訂是簽訂但是生效了嗎\n230892\t258000\t美國方面的程序好像還沒有完成還沒有完成主要是國會還沒有通過對不對?國會他的程序是總統要certify要先認證說我方已經完全執行了然後他再提交跟國會報告好那我想請問現在正值新舊總統政權交接那麼因為我們事實上在去年就已經完成簽訂對不對?有簽署但是始終因為沒有生效就是因為美國國會沒有通過\n259480\t282776\t那這樣子的一個政權交替的過程會不會使得我們這個首批協定的生效出現變數我們覺得這個協定基本上當時是美國國會兩黨的共識來推動的在目前看起來應該是美國國會程序比較慢這個他對世界各國的例子都是這個樣子\n283536\t310663\t所以它有沒有可能發生嘛最後政權替換了這個可能性我們來觀察但是我現在沒有辦法所以要觀察因為不要等於白談了另外我還是關心的是就是事實上我們跟美國一直在有這個貿易談判而美國一直在其實一直在點名的就是我們對於包含對於美豬包含對於美牛的相關的禁令那所以昨天我也問了這個院長和部長\n313524\t330541\t那麼我想請問一下次長可能會更清楚一點我們到目前為止跟美國談判裡面是不是有觸及或者是答應美國牛絞肉的進口或者是還有包括對美國豬肾的它的萊劑的提供\n331752\t356296\t報告委員 這個部分我個人這邊沒有訊息你這邊完全沒有訊息因為談判不是在經濟部來主導所以部分我這邊沒有訊息對啊很可惜啊今天那個我本來問這個經貿辦公室今天沒有人來那但是我在這邊還是因為我們這都有記錄還是有一點就是我們必須要在食安的部分一定要把關因為美國是一直對美牛美豬啊對我們很不爽啊\n356576\t356616\t王鴻薇議員\n379998\t394144\t市長好請問一下現在我們的部長人在立陶宛嗎?是的在立陶宛他有沒有可能發生一個狀況他現在帶團出去然後呢立陶宛改變就是我們台灣辦事處的名稱\n396716\t422542\t這個案子其實在醞釀一段時間了哪一個案子你說改變名稱這個案子嗎那麼當時成立這個是雙方政府經過一些協商所造出來的結果那麼他要改的話我們也不讓他片面有機會去改我們要堅持我們的立場可是如果人家要改呢就像人家南非要讓我們辦事處簽出首都啊\n424864\t445752\t南非的案子我們並沒有屈服目前還在談所以台灣辦事處我們也不屈服是不是我們目前的態度是這樣子那如果人家要改呢那麼我們要經過適當的方式來協商而且我們也要透過一些理念相近的國家與我們支持\n446451\t452136\t所以這個部分我們會力爭到底我要講的是其實剛才馬文俊委員也特別提到我們今天部長去訪問立陶宛我很怕我們面臨到一個非常尷尬的局面我們的部長堂堂部長在立陶宛人家立陶宛要求我們要把台灣辦事處的名稱給取消掉我曾經問過當時吳釗燮擔任外交部長我說如果改變我們的台灣辦事處名稱他要不要負責他願意負責下台負責\n476095\t478057\t現在他到了國安會,如果部長都到立陶宛,再度的跟立陶宛示好,還把所謂的無人機國家隊也送過去了,我們半導體技術也送了,投資也送了,萊姆酒也喝了,通通都喝了。\n494990\t508849\t結果現在來吃我們豆腐說台灣辦事處要改變我們當然我贊成我們外交部的態度但是一旦改變的話那我當然在這邊講一定要有人負政治責任\n509870\t509950\t主席\n","txt":"我先請我們經濟部政務次長請陳次長委員好\n市長好,這次美國總統大選之後,其實世界各國都在為川普上台來做準備,因為川普上台之後,其實對全世界的經濟都會造成引力的衝擊。\n尤其針對台灣的部分川普說要付保護費可是我們現在所理解的所謂的保護費並不僅僅止於軍事的部分甚至在一些經貿部分還有採購的部分\n其實世界各國都有一些準備那我要直接問次長的事央行在前幾天做了一個建議因為我們也被美國再度列為匯率操縱國所以央行在建議說台灣可以擴大採購美國的石油\n那麼這個可以看到包含在韓國也表示說可能擴大對美國採購採購石油跟天然氣那麼歐洲美國是直接點名歐洲應該跟美國採購更多的天然氣那所以在這邊我想請教一下針對中央銀行的建議台灣可以擴大採購美國石油請問一下經濟部贊成嗎那會付諸具體的行動嗎\n外委員目前我們採購的進口石油美國的比例大概接近30%那第二大來源天然氣美國的比例大概10%左右大概是第三大來源就經濟部立場在商業條件可行的情況下我們當然會來考慮\n所以可以考慮增加對能源方面的採購對不對好那但是呢這個問題我也同樣問過中央銀行就是事實上比如說像天然氣我們主要的是來自於亞洲嘛也是基於這個價格啦或者是有一些外交上的考量那如果因為不管是天然氣也好或者石油也好其實呢這個船運的時間越長事實上它的成本會越高\n那所以他有一種可能就是我增加對美國的採購因為美國離我們比較遠那麼會使得我們的能源價格成本因此而墊高有沒有這樣的可能的顧忌跟考量\n所以我剛剛有先報告就是說當然從能源安全的角度不管價格多少我們一定要分散來源這是第一個條件第一個條件我們採購的時候也要看商業條件合理我們會來考慮那麼商業條件有很多複雜的做法比方說它是長約還是中程還是短約或者現貨市場都不一樣這個是可以搭配但是我們就要做一個比較合理的商業模式那我們就會考慮來採購所以未來提高對美國的\n王鴻薇議員\n因為如果你對美國石油採購為了要付保護費然後使得我們的石油的成本提高或者為了要付保護費我們的天然氣成本提高就直接我們的電價就會上漲所以它必須基於在一個油電價格穩定不會上漲的狀況才可以另外請教次長21世紀台美貿易倡議首批協定請問生效了嗎簽訂是簽訂但是生效了嗎\n美國方面的程序好像還沒有完成還沒有完成主要是國會還沒有通過對不對?國會他的程序是總統要certify要先認證說我方已經完全執行了然後他再提交跟國會報告好那我想請問現在正值新舊總統政權交接那麼因為我們事實上在去年就已經完成簽訂對不對?有簽署但是始終因為沒有生效就是因為美國國會沒有通過\n那這樣子的一個政權交替的過程會不會使得我們這個首批協定的生效出現變數我們覺得這個協定基本上當時是美國國會兩黨的共識來推動的在目前看起來應該是美國國會程序比較慢這個他對世界各國的例子都是這個樣子\n所以它有沒有可能發生嘛最後政權替換了這個可能性我們來觀察但是我現在沒有辦法所以要觀察因為不要等於白談了另外我還是關心的是就是事實上我們跟美國一直在有這個貿易談判而美國一直在其實一直在點名的就是我們對於包含對於美豬包含對於美牛的相關的禁令那所以昨天我也問了這個院長和部長\n那麼我想請問一下次長可能會更清楚一點我們到目前為止跟美國談判裡面是不是有觸及或者是答應美國牛絞肉的進口或者是還有包括對美國豬肾的它的萊劑的提供\n報告委員 這個部分我個人這邊沒有訊息你這邊完全沒有訊息因為談判不是在經濟部來主導所以部分我這邊沒有訊息對啊很可惜啊今天那個我本來問這個經貿辦公室今天沒有人來那但是我在這邊還是因為我們這都有記錄還是有一點就是我們必須要在食安的部分一定要把關因為美國是一直對美牛美豬啊對我們很不爽啊\n王鴻薇議員\n市長好請問一下現在我們的部長人在立陶宛嗎?是的在立陶宛他有沒有可能發生一個狀況他現在帶團出去然後呢立陶宛改變就是我們台灣辦事處的名稱\n這個案子其實在醞釀一段時間了哪一個案子你說改變名稱這個案子嗎那麼當時成立這個是雙方政府經過一些協商所造出來的結果那麼他要改的話我們也不讓他片面有機會去改我們要堅持我們的立場可是如果人家要改呢就像人家南非要讓我們辦事處簽出首都啊\n南非的案子我們並沒有屈服目前還在談所以台灣辦事處我們也不屈服是不是我們目前的態度是這樣子那如果人家要改呢那麼我們要經過適當的方式來協商而且我們也要透過一些理念相近的國家與我們支持\n所以這個部分我們會力爭到底我要講的是其實剛才馬文俊委員也特別提到我們今天部長去訪問立陶宛我很怕我們面臨到一個非常尷尬的局面我們的部長堂堂部長在立陶宛人家立陶宛要求我們要把台灣辦事處的名稱給取消掉我曾經問過當時吳釗燮擔任外交部長我說如果改變我們的台灣辦事處名稱他要不要負責他願意負責下台負責\n現在他到了國安會,如果部長都到立陶宛,再度的跟立陶宛示好,還把所謂的無人機國家隊也送過去了,我們半導體技術也送了,投資也送了,萊姆酒也喝了,通通都喝了。\n結果現在來吃我們豆腐說台灣辦事處要改變我們當然我贊成我們外交部的態度但是一旦改變的話那我當然在這邊講一定要有人負政治責任\n主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.730 --> 00:05.255\n我先請我們經濟部政務次長請陳次長委員好\n\n00:14.708 --> 00:26.121\n市長好,這次美國總統大選之後,其實世界各國都在為川普上台來做準備,因為川普上台之後,其實對全世界的經濟都會造成引力的衝擊。\n\n00:30.385 --> 00:31.967\n尤其針對台灣的部分川普說要付保護費可是我們現在所理解的所謂的保護費並不僅僅止於軍事的部分甚至在一些經貿部分還有採購的部分\n\n00:46.224 --> 01:02.570\n其實世界各國都有一些準備那我要直接問次長的事央行在前幾天做了一個建議因為我們也被美國再度列為匯率操縱國所以央行在建議說台灣可以擴大採購美國的石油\n\n01:07.992 --> 01:27.246\n那麼這個可以看到包含在韓國也表示說可能擴大對美國採購採購石油跟天然氣那麼歐洲美國是直接點名歐洲應該跟美國採購更多的天然氣那所以在這邊我想請教一下針對中央銀行的建議台灣可以擴大採購美國石油請問一下經濟部贊成嗎那會付諸具體的行動嗎\n\n01:35.731 --> 01:52.996\n外委員目前我們採購的進口石油美國的比例大概接近30%那第二大來源天然氣美國的比例大概10%左右大概是第三大來源就經濟部立場在商業條件可行的情況下我們當然會來考慮\n\n01:54.264 --> 02:20.401\n所以可以考慮增加對能源方面的採購對不對好那但是呢這個問題我也同樣問過中央銀行就是事實上比如說像天然氣我們主要的是來自於亞洲嘛也是基於這個價格啦或者是有一些外交上的考量那如果因為不管是天然氣也好或者石油也好其實呢這個船運的時間越長事實上它的成本會越高\n\n02:21.121 --> 02:32.497\n那所以他有一種可能就是我增加對美國的採購因為美國離我們比較遠那麼會使得我們的能源價格成本因此而墊高有沒有這樣的可能的顧忌跟考量\n\n02:33.611 --> 03:01.765\n所以我剛剛有先報告就是說當然從能源安全的角度不管價格多少我們一定要分散來源這是第一個條件第一個條件我們採購的時候也要看商業條件合理我們會來考慮那麼商業條件有很多複雜的做法比方說它是長約還是中程還是短約或者現貨市場都不一樣這個是可以搭配但是我們就要做一個比較合理的商業模式那我們就會考慮來採購所以未來提高對美國的\n\n03:02.925 --> 03:02.965\n王鴻薇議員\n\n03:21.525 --> 03:39.029\n因為如果你對美國石油採購為了要付保護費然後使得我們的石油的成本提高或者為了要付保護費我們的天然氣成本提高就直接我們的電價就會上漲所以它必須基於在一個油電價格穩定不會上漲的狀況才可以另外請教次長21世紀台美貿易倡議首批協定請問生效了嗎簽訂是簽訂但是生效了嗎\n\n03:50.892 --> 04:18.000\n美國方面的程序好像還沒有完成還沒有完成主要是國會還沒有通過對不對?國會他的程序是總統要certify要先認證說我方已經完全執行了然後他再提交跟國會報告好那我想請問現在正值新舊總統政權交接那麼因為我們事實上在去年就已經完成簽訂對不對?有簽署但是始終因為沒有生效就是因為美國國會沒有通過\n\n04:19.480 --> 04:42.776\n那這樣子的一個政權交替的過程會不會使得我們這個首批協定的生效出現變數我們覺得這個協定基本上當時是美國國會兩黨的共識來推動的在目前看起來應該是美國國會程序比較慢這個他對世界各國的例子都是這個樣子\n\n04:43.536 --> 05:10.663\n所以它有沒有可能發生嘛最後政權替換了這個可能性我們來觀察但是我現在沒有辦法所以要觀察因為不要等於白談了另外我還是關心的是就是事實上我們跟美國一直在有這個貿易談判而美國一直在其實一直在點名的就是我們對於包含對於美豬包含對於美牛的相關的禁令那所以昨天我也問了這個院長和部長\n\n05:13.524 --> 05:30.541\n那麼我想請問一下次長可能會更清楚一點我們到目前為止跟美國談判裡面是不是有觸及或者是答應美國牛絞肉的進口或者是還有包括對美國豬肾的它的萊劑的提供\n\n05:31.752 --> 05:56.296\n報告委員這個部分我個人這邊沒有訊息你這邊完全沒有訊息因為談判不是在經濟部來主導所以部分我這邊沒有訊息對啊很可惜啊今天那個我本來問這個經貿辦公室今天沒有人來那但是我在這邊還是因為我們這都有記錄還是有一點就是我們必須要在食安的部分一定要把關因為美國是一直對美牛美豬啊對我們很不爽啊\n\n05:56.576 --> 05:56.616\n王鴻薇議員\n\n06:19.998 --> 06:34.144\n市長好請問一下現在我們的部長人在立陶宛嗎?是的在立陶宛他有沒有可能發生一個狀況他現在帶團出去然後呢立陶宛改變就是我們台灣辦事處的名稱\n\n06:36.716 --> 07:02.542\n這個案子其實在醞釀一段時間了哪一個案子你說改變名稱這個案子嗎那麼當時成立這個是雙方政府經過一些協商所造出來的結果那麼他要改的話我們也不讓他片面有機會去改我們要堅持我們的立場可是如果人家要改呢就像人家南非要讓我們辦事處簽出首都啊\n\n07:04.864 --> 07:25.752\n南非的案子我們並沒有屈服目前還在談所以台灣辦事處我們也不屈服是不是我們目前的態度是這樣子那如果人家要改呢那麼我們要經過適當的方式來協商而且我們也要透過一些理念相近的國家與我們支持\n\n07:26.451 --> 07:32.136\n所以這個部分我們會力爭到底我要講的是其實剛才馬文俊委員也特別提到我們今天部長去訪問立陶宛我很怕我們面臨到一個非常尷尬的局面我們的部長堂堂部長在立陶宛人家立陶宛要求我們要把台灣辦事處的名稱給取消掉我曾經問過當時吳釗燮擔任外交部長我說如果改變我們的台灣辦事處名稱他要不要負責他願意負責下台負責\n\n07:56.095 --> 07:58.057\n現在他到了國安會,如果部長都到立陶宛,再度的跟立陶宛示好,還把所謂的無人機國家隊也送過去了,我們半導體技術也送了,投資也送了,萊姆酒也喝了,通通都喝了。\n\n08:14.990 --> 08:28.849\n結果現在來吃我們豆腐說台灣辦事處要改變我們當然我贊成我們外交部的態度但是一旦改變的話那我當然在這邊講一定要有人負政治責任\n\n08:29.870 --> 08:29.950\n主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.73,"end":5.255,"text":"我先請我們經濟部政務次長請陳次長委員好"},{"start":14.708,"end":26.121,"text":"市長好,這次美國總統大選之後,其實世界各國都在為川普上台來做準備,因為川普上台之後,其實對全世界的經濟都會造成引力的衝擊。"},{"start":30.385,"end":31.967,"text":"尤其針對台灣的部分川普說要付保護費可是我們現在所理解的所謂的保護費並不僅僅止於軍事的部分甚至在一些經貿部分還有採購的部分"},{"start":46.224,"end":62.57,"text":"其實世界各國都有一些準備那我要直接問次長的事央行在前幾天做了一個建議因為我們也被美國再度列為匯率操縱國所以央行在建議說台灣可以擴大採購美國的石油"},{"start":67.992,"end":87.246,"text":"那麼這個可以看到包含在韓國也表示說可能擴大對美國採購採購石油跟天然氣那麼歐洲美國是直接點名歐洲應該跟美國採購更多的天然氣那所以在這邊我想請教一下針對中央銀行的建議台灣可以擴大採購美國石油請問一下經濟部贊成嗎那會付諸具體的行動嗎"},{"start":95.731,"end":112.996,"text":"外委員目前我們採購的進口石油美國的比例大概接近30%那第二大來源天然氣美國的比例大概10%左右大概是第三大來源就經濟部立場在商業條件可行的情況下我們當然會來考慮"},{"start":114.264,"end":140.401,"text":"所以可以考慮增加對能源方面的採購對不對好那但是呢這個問題我也同樣問過中央銀行就是事實上比如說像天然氣我們主要的是來自於亞洲嘛也是基於這個價格啦或者是有一些外交上的考量那如果因為不管是天然氣也好或者石油也好其實呢這個船運的時間越長事實上它的成本會越高"},{"start":141.121,"end":152.497,"text":"那所以他有一種可能就是我增加對美國的採購因為美國離我們比較遠那麼會使得我們的能源價格成本因此而墊高有沒有這樣的可能的顧忌跟考量"},{"start":153.611,"end":181.765,"text":"所以我剛剛有先報告就是說當然從能源安全的角度不管價格多少我們一定要分散來源這是第一個條件第一個條件我們採購的時候也要看商業條件合理我們會來考慮那麼商業條件有很多複雜的做法比方說它是長約還是中程還是短約或者現貨市場都不一樣這個是可以搭配但是我們就要做一個比較合理的商業模式那我們就會考慮來採購所以未來提高對美國的"},{"start":182.925,"end":182.965,"text":"王鴻薇議員"},{"start":201.525,"end":219.029,"text":"因為如果你對美國石油採購為了要付保護費然後使得我們的石油的成本提高或者為了要付保護費我們的天然氣成本提高就直接我們的電價就會上漲所以它必須基於在一個油電價格穩定不會上漲的狀況才可以另外請教次長21世紀台美貿易倡議首批協定請問生效了嗎簽訂是簽訂但是生效了嗎"},{"start":230.892,"end":258,"text":"美國方面的程序好像還沒有完成還沒有完成主要是國會還沒有通過對不對?國會他的程序是總統要certify要先認證說我方已經完全執行了然後他再提交跟國會報告好那我想請問現在正值新舊總統政權交接那麼因為我們事實上在去年就已經完成簽訂對不對?有簽署但是始終因為沒有生效就是因為美國國會沒有通過"},{"start":259.48,"end":282.776,"text":"那這樣子的一個政權交替的過程會不會使得我們這個首批協定的生效出現變數我們覺得這個協定基本上當時是美國國會兩黨的共識來推動的在目前看起來應該是美國國會程序比較慢這個他對世界各國的例子都是這個樣子"},{"start":283.536,"end":310.663,"text":"所以它有沒有可能發生嘛最後政權替換了這個可能性我們來觀察但是我現在沒有辦法所以要觀察因為不要等於白談了另外我還是關心的是就是事實上我們跟美國一直在有這個貿易談判而美國一直在其實一直在點名的就是我們對於包含對於美豬包含對於美牛的相關的禁令那所以昨天我也問了這個院長和部長"},{"start":313.524,"end":330.541,"text":"那麼我想請問一下次長可能會更清楚一點我們到目前為止跟美國談判裡面是不是有觸及或者是答應美國牛絞肉的進口或者是還有包括對美國豬肾的它的萊劑的提供"},{"start":331.752,"end":356.296,"text":"報告委員 這個部分我個人這邊沒有訊息你這邊完全沒有訊息因為談判不是在經濟部來主導所以部分我這邊沒有訊息對啊很可惜啊今天那個我本來問這個經貿辦公室今天沒有人來那但是我在這邊還是因為我們這都有記錄還是有一點就是我們必須要在食安的部分一定要把關因為美國是一直對美牛美豬啊對我們很不爽啊"},{"start":356.576,"end":356.616,"text":"王鴻薇議員"},{"start":379.998,"end":394.144,"text":"市長好請問一下現在我們的部長人在立陶宛嗎?是的在立陶宛他有沒有可能發生一個狀況他現在帶團出去然後呢立陶宛改變就是我們台灣辦事處的名稱"},{"start":396.716,"end":422.542,"text":"這個案子其實在醞釀一段時間了哪一個案子你說改變名稱這個案子嗎那麼當時成立這個是雙方政府經過一些協商所造出來的結果那麼他要改的話我們也不讓他片面有機會去改我們要堅持我們的立場可是如果人家要改呢就像人家南非要讓我們辦事處簽出首都啊"},{"start":424.864,"end":445.752,"text":"南非的案子我們並沒有屈服目前還在談所以台灣辦事處我們也不屈服是不是我們目前的態度是這樣子那如果人家要改呢那麼我們要經過適當的方式來協商而且我們也要透過一些理念相近的國家與我們支持"},{"start":446.451,"end":452.136,"text":"所以這個部分我們會力爭到底我要講的是其實剛才馬文俊委員也特別提到我們今天部長去訪問立陶宛我很怕我們面臨到一個非常尷尬的局面我們的部長堂堂部長在立陶宛人家立陶宛要求我們要把台灣辦事處的名稱給取消掉我曾經問過當時吳釗燮擔任外交部長我說如果改變我們的台灣辦事處名稱他要不要負責他願意負責下台負責"},{"start":476.095,"end":478.057,"text":"現在他到了國安會,如果部長都到立陶宛,再度的跟立陶宛示好,還把所謂的無人機國家隊也送過去了,我們半導體技術也送了,投資也送了,萊姆酒也喝了,通通都喝了。"},{"start":494.99,"end":508.849,"text":"結果現在來吃我們豆腐說台灣辦事處要改變我們當然我贊成我們外交部的態度但是一旦改變的話那我當然在這邊講一定要有人負政治責任"},{"start":509.87,"end":509.95,"text":"主席"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":400,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（11時25分）謝謝主席，我先請經濟部政務次長。"],["主席：請陳次長。"],["陳次長正祺：委員好。"],["王委員鴻薇：次長好。這一次美國總統大選之後，其實世界各國都在為川普上臺來做準備，因為川普上臺之後，對全世界的經濟都會造成一定的衝擊，尤其針對臺灣的部分，川普說要付保護費，可是我們現在所理解的，所謂的保護費並不僅僅止於軍事的部分，甚至在一些經貿部分還有採購的部分，其實世界各國都有一些準備。","我要直接問次長的是，央行在前幾天做了一個建議，因為我們被美國再度列為匯率操縱國，所以央行建議臺灣可以擴大採購美國的石油，我們可以看到，包含韓國也表示可能擴大對美國採購石油及天然氣，那麼美國是直接點名歐洲應該向美國採購更多的天然氣，所以在這邊我想請教一下，針對中央銀行的建議，臺灣可以擴大採購美國石油，請問經濟部贊成嗎？會付諸具體的行動嗎？"],["陳次長正祺：報告委員，目前我們採購的進口石油，美國的比例接近30%，大概是第二大來源。那麼天然氣，美國的比例是10%左右，大概是第三大來源。就經濟部的立場，在商業條件可行的情況下，我們當然會來考慮。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以可以考慮增加能源方面的採購，對不對？好，但是這個問題我也同樣問過中央銀行，事實上比如說像天然氣，我們主要是來自於亞洲嘛！也是基於價格或者是有一些外交上的考量，因為不管是天然氣也好，或者石油也好，其實船運的時間越長，事實上它的成本會越高，所以它有一種可能，就是我增加對美國的採購，因為美國離我們比較遠，那麼會使得我們的能源價格成本因此而墊高，有沒有這樣的顧忌與考量？"],["陳次長正祺：所以我剛剛有先報告，當然從能源安全的角度，不管價格多少，我們一定要分散來源，這是第一個條件。","第二個條件，我們採購的時候也要看商業條件合理，我們會來考慮，那麼商業條件有很多複雜的做法，比方說它是長約、中程還是短約，或者spot market（現貨市場）都不一樣，這個是可以搭配，但是我們要做一個比較合理的商業模式，那我們就會考慮來採購。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，所以未來提高對美國不管石油或天然氣的採購，是有可行性的，然後你們會去研究的，是嗎？"],["陳次長正祺：對，我們會評估。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，我在這邊要要求，我們分散來源我是可以支持，但是有一個原則，因為我們現在最擔心的就是包含油電價格，對不對？如果你對美國石油採購，為了要付保護費，然後使得我們的石油成本提高，或者為了要付保護費，我們的天然氣成本提高，我們的電價就會直接上漲，所以它必須基於一個油電價格穩定、不會上漲的狀況才可以。","另外，請教次長，21世紀臺美貿易倡議首批協定，請問生效了嗎？簽訂是簽訂，但是生效了嗎？"],["陳次長正祺：美國方面的程序好像還沒有完成。"],["王委員鴻薇：還沒有完成，主要是國會還沒有通過，對不對？"],["陳次長正祺：它的程序是總統要certify，要先認證說我方已經完全執行了，然後它再提交跟國會報告。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，我想請問，現在正值新舊總統政權交接，那麼我們事實上在去年就已經完成簽訂，對不對？有簽署，但是始終沒有生效，就是因為美國國會沒有通過，那這樣子一個政權交替的過程，會不會使得我們首批協定的生效出現變數？"],["陳次長正祺：我們覺得這個協定基本上當時是美國國會兩黨的共識來推動的，在目前看起來應該是……"],["王委員鴻薇：可是拖很久啊！到現在都沒有。"],["陳次長正祺：美國國會的程序比較慢，它對世界各國的例子都是這個樣子。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以它有沒有可能發生嘛？最後政權替換了，然後沒有……"],["陳次長正祺：這個可能性我們來觀察，但是我現在沒有辦法……"],["王委員鴻薇：所以要觀察，因為不要等於白談了。","另外，我還是關心的是，事實上我們跟美國一直有在貿易談判，而美國一直在點名的就是我們對於美豬、包含對於美牛的相關禁令，所以昨天我也問了院長和部長，我想請問次長，你可能會更清楚一點，我們到目前為止，跟美國談判裡面是不是有觸及或者是答應美國牛絞肉的進口，包括對美國豬腎的萊劑提高？"],["陳次長正祺：這個部分我個人這邊沒有訊息。"],["王委員鴻薇：你這邊完全沒有訊息？"],["陳次長正祺：我這邊沒有，因為談判不是由經濟部來主導，所以這個部分我這邊沒有訊息。"],["王委員鴻薇：對啊！很可惜啦！我本來要問經貿辦公室，雖然今天沒有人來，但是我在這邊還是要提出一點，因為這個都有紀錄，就是我們必須要在食安的部分一定要把關，因為美國一直因為美牛、美豬而對我們很不爽啊！希望讓我們開放，而我也相信川普上來之後，這個壓力只會增加不會減少。","好，還剩下一點點時間，對不起，時間暫停一下，我請外交部田次長。"],["田次長中光：委員早。"],["王委員鴻薇：次長好。請問一下，現在我們的部長人在立陶宛嘛？"],["田次長中光：是的。"],["王委員鴻薇：在立陶宛，他有沒有可能發生一個狀況，就是他現在帶團出去，然後立陶宛改變我們臺灣辦事處的名稱？"],["田次長中光：這個案子其實醞釀一段時間了，當時……"],["王委員鴻薇：哪一個案子？"],["田次長中光：你說改變名稱這個案子嘛？"],["王委員鴻薇：對。"],["田次長中光：當時成立這個是雙方政府經過一些協商所得出來的結果，那麼它要改的話，我們也不讓它片面有機會去改，我們要堅持我們的立場，目前是這樣。"],["王委員鴻薇：可是如果人家要改呢？就像南非要讓我們辦事處遷出首都啊！"],["田次長中光：南非的案子我們並沒有屈服，我們目前還在談。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，所以對臺灣辦事處的名稱我們也不屈服，是不是？"],["田次長中光：我們目前的態度是這樣子。"],["王委員鴻薇：如果人家要改呢？"],["田次長中光：那麼我們要經過適當的方式來協商，而且也要透過一些理念相近的國家予我們支持。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以這個部分我們會力爭到底。"],["田次長中光：一定。"],["王委員鴻薇：我要講的是，其實剛才馬文君委員也特別提到，今天部長去訪問立陶宛，我很怕我們面臨到一個非常尷尬的局面，就是我們堂堂的部長在立陶宛，然後人家立陶宛要求我們把臺灣辦事處的名稱給取消掉。","我曾經問過，當時是吳釗燮擔任外交部長，我說如果改變我們的臺灣辦事處名稱，他要不要負責？他願意負責，下臺負責，那現在他人到了國安會。今天雖然部長不在，如果部長都到立陶宛再度地跟立陶宛示好，還把所謂的無人機國家隊也送過去了，我們半導體技術也送了，投資也送了，蘭姆酒也喝了，統統都喝了，結果現在來吃我們豆腐說臺灣辦事處的名稱要改變，我贊成我們外交部的態度，但是一旦改變的話，我當然在這邊講，一定要有人負政治責任，不要不了了之啊！今天浪費了我們這麼多的資源，對不對？連半導體技術都送給他們，都轉移給他們，然後說改就改，那技術怎麼不還給我們呢？所以在這一點，我希望外交部要有這樣的認知，好不好？"],["田次長中光：是，好。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，謝謝。"],["田次長中光：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝王鴻薇委員，次長請回。","接下來請賴士葆委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":322,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-15","speakers":["林憶君","沈伯洋","羅美玲","黃仁","徐巧芯","林楚茵","陳冠廷","陳永康","馬文君","王鴻薇","賴士葆","洪孟楷","楊瓊瓔","葉元之","王定宇","洪申翰","邱志偉"],"page_start":273,"meetingDate":["2024-11-20"],"gazette_id":"11310101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310101_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請外交部部長、國家發展委員會、經濟部報告「美國總統大選後，對於推動台美貿易及科技建\n立合作架構之影響」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"11310101_00006"}}}