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\"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 503.098, \"end\": 503.118, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 503.118, \"end\": 503.319, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 503.319, \"end\": 503.699, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"首\", \"start\": 503.699, \"end\": 503.719, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,549 --> 00:00:26,942\n財政部副主委、交通部五次長、農業部陳部長、水利署署長還有我們的環境部彭部長抱歉我們先請國發會的詹副主委回答那其他的因為是時間的關係因為各要你們一句話所以請你們稍微準備一下各個部長及次長不好意思不好意思請你們稍等一下好,詹副主委\n\n2\n00:00:27,742 --> 00:00:54,195\n我想今天我們來討論的是前瞻基礎建設的第5期啦那第5期的意思也就是表示我們整個前瞻計畫8年8400億終於到了尾聲那國發會作為一個這個計畫的主持人、主持單位我不曉得你在最後這一期的時候你要不要做一個總結和評論覺得這樣的一個特別預算在執行國家基礎建設的工程你現在對它的評價如何?\n\n3\n00:00:54,975 --> 00:01:11,665\n要不要再繼續未來?是跟委員報告根據特別條例其實整個計畫結束之後我們一定會做一個總評報告那我要你的現在啊那現在每個年度其實我們也都有做一個人的評價啦是是是是不是一句話就可以了嘛正面負面\n\n4\n00:01:12,165 --> 00:01:33,371\n當然正面當然正面嘛這麼簡單的事情各個成績都在出來各個縣市都在爭取這麼簡單的肯定的一句話怎麼還要講這麼多次呢當然是肯定的啊而且事實上我們從歷任的總統來看連陳水扁總統、馬英九總統、蔡英文總統每一個總統都有在對公共建設基礎建設進行大的投資計畫前瞻計畫也不過就是\n\n5\n00:01:37,432 --> 00:01:57,751\n是一樣在擴大台灣的基礎建設而已而且事實上成效卓著所以我在這裡今天的問題是問國發會有沒有打算在賴總統的任內再次提出我不管你叫什麼名字我不管你用什麼方式有沒有要對台灣的公共建設再次的提出相關可能的計畫\n\n6\n00:01:59,268 --> 00:02:23,120\n跟委員報告因為很多公共建設都是跨期比較長的又是跨域的所以這部分我們都會跟各部會討論會繼續推動這樣是要還是不要就重大的公共建設一定會繼續推動這是沒有問題的我問你的是要不要編列關於推動公共建設的計畫啊推動公共建設當然要啊\n\n7\n00:02:24,657 --> 00:02:34,949\n是對推動公共建設的計畫如果各部會跟地方都有需求的話叫行政院審議我們國發會一定會去繼續支持你至少可以就你個人表態吧\n\n8\n00:02:38,009 --> 00:03:03,008\n這部分的政策當然是會繼續支持各部會再提的公共建設計畫是沒有問題的國發會這樣就太客氣了竟然叫做國家發展委員會對於自己國家的公共建設竟然不敢大聲支持我是覺得這樣子是太弱了一點委員在這裡要求國家應該要提出這樣的計畫再繼續支持整個台灣讓我們的城鄉差距可以縮小的公共建設計畫副主委\n\n9\n00:03:05,209 --> 00:03:28,185\n請您先在旁邊休息,我要的是這樣的計畫但是根據現在八年前瞻的經驗下來我認為有很多的標準可以討論一下比如說我在選區這邊其實我們剛剛也聽到很多委員質詢確實只要停車場、活動中心都是廣受歡迎的建設我要先請交通部五次長\n\n10\n00:03:31,188 --> 00:03:44,218\n這麼受歡迎的建設停車場你剛剛很多委員都在爭取你每一個上來你都答應他那到底最後所有的預算到底可以落在哪一個部分這是怎麼決定的\n\n11\n00:03:46,707 --> 00:04:11,955\n聽長長的顧問,現在大概我們會在裡面每一個上來每一個都跟你爭取啊每一個都說次長你跟著我們去會刊啊會刊以後就會協助地方政府啊然後就答應,是這樣嗎?沒有沒有,這個還是要地方提出來以後然後看我們的遺傳是,其實是要地方提出來嘛而且地方會就他所有要建設的可能他還會進行一個排序,不是嗎?是\n\n12\n00:04:13,015 --> 00:04:27,688\n所以到底這個地方能不能夠得到中央前瞻這種特別預算的支持其實最重要的因素就是在地方的排序啊那你們有沒有對地方的排序做過檢核他為什麼這樣排他為什麼不是那樣排\n\n13\n00:04:29,309 --> 00:04:29,429\n主席\n\n14\n00:04:49,716 --> 00:04:56,223\n我認為不但是在第5期因為第5期還是有這種停車場的爭取所以部內這邊應該要對於標準地方提出來的要做一個考慮這是第一個然後未來如果將來還有特別預算的話\n\n15\n00:05:10,359 --> 00:05:26,408\n也應該要對地方政府的排序中央要能夠有一套能夠讓大家說服的旅遊標準這是有對交通部的建議啊那第二個的話不好意思我們要請環境部彭部長彭部長你可能會覺得這個跟你有什麼關係\n\n16\n00:05:27,589 --> 00:05:50,640\n但是我們新北市的肉品市場它有很大的汙水處理問題汙水處理問題可以用在什麼樣的計畫能爭取到經費呢其實是環境部的全國水環境改善計畫但是很遺憾的這個計畫依然是要地方政府提出申請所以你可能根本從來沒有看過這個計畫也不知道要怎麼補助但是部長\n\n17\n00:05:51,320 --> 00:06:20,037\n我想要為你這邊再多提出一個標準就是如果地方政府沒有提出申請的話那麼中央部會是不是可以基於考慮它的公益性還有影響的廣大性中央有沒有第二軌可以介入來支持地方的計畫我認為是應該要考慮的啊為什麼因為新北市肉品市場不是單純的新北市服務新北市民耶它是北台灣最大的屠宰中心啊\n\n18\n00:06:20,817 --> 00:06:22,357\n〈中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案),\n\n19\n00:06:43,723 --> 00:06:46,386\n我認為不管是在這個第5期或者是在未來的特別預算假設還有的話我認為像這樣子的計畫中央是不是有機會可以基於公益性影響範圍性介入調查介入支持\n\n20\n00:06:59,722 --> 00:07:29,071\n好沒問題委員這個部分我們會列入考慮我藉著這個公開執行的機會讓你了解有這樣的case好那最後我想請謝謝那我想請農業部的陳部長和水利署的二署長兩個是講一樣的事情啦這件事情其實是這次三坨的颱風像新北的金山其實受到很大的災情那謝謝我們農業部還有水利署這邊都快速的來進行了整種的修復和災補的部分但是我也想告訴大家啦也是跟\n\n21\n00:07:30,252 --> 00:07:52,353\n兩個部會這邊做一個討論就是既然我們接下來要做治水的工程也是有可能會用到前瞻的預算我在這裡再一次的公開要求災區的工程要列為優先支援的項目災區的工程要列為優先支援的項目不曉得兩個單位能不能夠答應因為它已經就是會有問題了嘛\n\n22\n00:07:53,614 --> 00:08:16,933\n絕對同意委員這樣的一個想法,因為災區本身的一個附件,就是農水路的部分,我們一定會優先支持。是,水利署也一樣吧?百分之百認同,我們現在是朝這個方向。好,災區的部分,所以我想,謝謝兩位,謝謝陳部長和賴署長。所以我想我做個總結啦,我支持國家要繼續有預算支持公共建設,那不管它編列在哪裡,我認為要支持。\n\n23\n00:08:17,373 --> 00:08:23,719\n各項標準,我認為地方當然有自主權,但中央也要保有適度的介入空間,這是我的論點。謝謝各位部會首長。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n549\t26942\t財政部副主委、交通部五次長、農業部陳部長、水利署署長還有我們的環境部彭部長抱歉我們先請國發會的詹副主委回答那其他的因為是時間的關係因為各要你們一句話所以請你們稍微準備一下各個部長及次長不好意思不好意思請你們稍等一下好,詹副主委\n27742\t54195\t我想今天我們來討論的是前瞻基礎建設的第5期啦那第5期的意思也就是表示我們整個前瞻計畫8年8400億終於到了尾聲那國發會作為一個這個計畫的主持人、主持單位我不曉得你在最後這一期的時候你要不要做一個總結和評論覺得這樣的一個特別預算在執行國家基礎建設的工程你現在對它的評價如何?\n54975\t71665\t要不要再繼續未來?是跟委員報告根據特別條例其實整個計畫結束之後我們一定會做一個總評報告那我要你的現在啊那現在每個年度其實我們也都有做一個人的評價啦是是是是不是一句話就可以了嘛正面負面\n72165\t93371\t當然正面當然正面嘛這麼簡單的事情各個成績都在出來各個縣市都在爭取這麼簡單的肯定的一句話怎麼還要講這麼多次呢當然是肯定的啊而且事實上我們從歷任的總統來看連陳水扁總統、馬英九總統、蔡英文總統每一個總統都有在對公共建設基礎建設進行大的投資計畫前瞻計畫也不過就是\n97432\t117751\t是一樣在擴大台灣的基礎建設而已而且事實上成效卓著所以我在這裡今天的問題是問國發會有沒有打算在賴總統的任內再次提出我不管你叫什麼名字我不管你用什麼方式有沒有要對台灣的公共建設再次的提出相關可能的計畫\n119268\t143120\t跟委員報告因為很多公共建設都是跨期比較長的又是跨域的所以這部分我們都會跟各部會討論會繼續推動這樣是要還是不要就重大的公共建設一定會繼續推動這是沒有問題的我問你的是要不要編列關於推動公共建設的計畫啊推動公共建設當然要啊\n144657\t154949\t是對推動公共建設的計畫如果各部會跟地方都有需求的話叫行政院審議我們國發會一定會去繼續支持你至少可以就你個人表態吧\n158009\t183008\t這部分的政策當然是會繼續支持各部會再提的公共建設計畫是沒有問題的國發會這樣就太客氣了竟然叫做國家發展委員會對於自己國家的公共建設竟然不敢大聲支持我是覺得這樣子是太弱了一點委員在這裡要求國家應該要提出這樣的計畫再繼續支持整個台灣讓我們的城鄉差距可以縮小的公共建設計畫副主委\n185209\t208185\t請您先在旁邊休息,我要的是這樣的計畫但是根據現在八年前瞻的經驗下來我認為有很多的標準可以討論一下比如說我在選區這邊其實我們剛剛也聽到很多委員質詢確實只要停車場、活動中心都是廣受歡迎的建設我要先請交通部五次長\n211188\t224218\t這麼受歡迎的建設停車場你剛剛很多委員都在爭取你每一個上來你都答應他那到底最後所有的預算到底可以落在哪一個部分這是怎麼決定的\n226707\t251955\t聽長長的顧問,現在大概我們會在裡面每一個上來每一個都跟你爭取啊每一個都說次長你跟著我們去會刊啊會刊以後就會協助地方政府啊然後就答應,是這樣嗎?沒有沒有,這個還是要地方提出來以後然後看我們的遺傳是,其實是要地方提出來嘛而且地方會就他所有要建設的可能他還會進行一個排序,不是嗎?是\n253015\t267688\t所以到底這個地方能不能夠得到中央前瞻這種特別預算的支持其實最重要的因素就是在地方的排序啊那你們有沒有對地方的排序做過檢核他為什麼這樣排他為什麼不是那樣排\n269309\t269429\t主席\n289716\t296223\t我認為不但是在第5期因為第5期還是有這種停車場的爭取所以部內這邊應該要對於標準地方提出來的要做一個考慮這是第一個然後未來如果將來還有特別預算的話\n310359\t326408\t也應該要對地方政府的排序中央要能夠有一套能夠讓大家說服的旅遊標準這是有對交通部的建議啊那第二個的話不好意思我們要請環境部彭部長彭部長你可能會覺得這個跟你有什麼關係\n327589\t350640\t但是我們新北市的肉品市場它有很大的汙水處理問題汙水處理問題可以用在什麼樣的計畫能爭取到經費呢其實是環境部的全國水環境改善計畫但是很遺憾的這個計畫依然是要地方政府提出申請所以你可能根本從來沒有看過這個計畫也不知道要怎麼補助但是部長\n351320\t380037\t我想要為你這邊再多提出一個標準就是如果地方政府沒有提出申請的話那麼中央部會是不是可以基於考慮它的公益性還有影響的廣大性中央有沒有第二軌可以介入來支持地方的計畫我認為是應該要考慮的啊為什麼因為新北市肉品市場不是單純的新北市服務新北市民耶它是北台灣最大的屠宰中心啊\n380817\t382357\t〈中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案),\n403723\t406386\t我認為不管是在這個第5期或者是在未來的特別預算假設還有的話我認為像這樣子的計畫中央是不是有機會可以基於公益性影響範圍性介入調查介入支持\n419722\t449071\t好沒問題委員這個部分我們會列入考慮我藉著這個公開執行的機會讓你了解有這樣的case好那最後我想請謝謝那我想請農業部的陳部長和水利署的二署長兩個是講一樣的事情啦這件事情其實是這次三坨的颱風像新北的金山其實受到很大的災情那謝謝我們農業部還有水利署這邊都快速的來進行了整種的修復和災補的部分但是我也想告訴大家啦也是跟\n450252\t472353\t兩個部會這邊做一個討論就是既然我們接下來要做治水的工程也是有可能會用到前瞻的預算我在這裡再一次的公開要求災區的工程要列為優先支援的項目災區的工程要列為優先支援的項目不曉得兩個單位能不能夠答應因為它已經就是會有問題了嘛\n473614\t496933\t絕對同意委員這樣的一個想法,因為災區本身的一個附件,就是農水路的部分,我們一定會優先支持。是,水利署也一樣吧?百分之百認同,我們現在是朝這個方向。好,災區的部分,所以我想,謝謝兩位,謝謝陳部長和賴署長。所以我想我做個總結啦,我支持國家要繼續有預算支持公共建設,那不管它編列在哪裡,我認為要支持。\n497373\t503719\t各項標準,我認為地方當然有自主權,但中央也要保有適度的介入空間,這是我的論點。謝謝各位部會首長。\n","txt":"財政部副主委、交通部五次長、農業部陳部長、水利署署長還有我們的環境部彭部長抱歉我們先請國發會的詹副主委回答那其他的因為是時間的關係因為各要你們一句話所以請你們稍微準備一下各個部長及次長不好意思不好意思請你們稍等一下好,詹副主委\n我想今天我們來討論的是前瞻基礎建設的第5期啦那第5期的意思也就是表示我們整個前瞻計畫8年8400億終於到了尾聲那國發會作為一個這個計畫的主持人、主持單位我不曉得你在最後這一期的時候你要不要做一個總結和評論覺得這樣的一個特別預算在執行國家基礎建設的工程你現在對它的評價如何?\n要不要再繼續未來?是跟委員報告根據特別條例其實整個計畫結束之後我們一定會做一個總評報告那我要你的現在啊那現在每個年度其實我們也都有做一個人的評價啦是是是是不是一句話就可以了嘛正面負面\n當然正面當然正面嘛這麼簡單的事情各個成績都在出來各個縣市都在爭取這麼簡單的肯定的一句話怎麼還要講這麼多次呢當然是肯定的啊而且事實上我們從歷任的總統來看連陳水扁總統、馬英九總統、蔡英文總統每一個總統都有在對公共建設基礎建設進行大的投資計畫前瞻計畫也不過就是\n是一樣在擴大台灣的基礎建設而已而且事實上成效卓著所以我在這裡今天的問題是問國發會有沒有打算在賴總統的任內再次提出我不管你叫什麼名字我不管你用什麼方式有沒有要對台灣的公共建設再次的提出相關可能的計畫\n跟委員報告因為很多公共建設都是跨期比較長的又是跨域的所以這部分我們都會跟各部會討論會繼續推動這樣是要還是不要就重大的公共建設一定會繼續推動這是沒有問題的我問你的是要不要編列關於推動公共建設的計畫啊推動公共建設當然要啊\n是對推動公共建設的計畫如果各部會跟地方都有需求的話叫行政院審議我們國發會一定會去繼續支持你至少可以就你個人表態吧\n這部分的政策當然是會繼續支持各部會再提的公共建設計畫是沒有問題的國發會這樣就太客氣了竟然叫做國家發展委員會對於自己國家的公共建設竟然不敢大聲支持我是覺得這樣子是太弱了一點委員在這裡要求國家應該要提出這樣的計畫再繼續支持整個台灣讓我們的城鄉差距可以縮小的公共建設計畫副主委\n請您先在旁邊休息,我要的是這樣的計畫但是根據現在八年前瞻的經驗下來我認為有很多的標準可以討論一下比如說我在選區這邊其實我們剛剛也聽到很多委員質詢確實只要停車場、活動中心都是廣受歡迎的建設我要先請交通部五次長\n這麼受歡迎的建設停車場你剛剛很多委員都在爭取你每一個上來你都答應他那到底最後所有的預算到底可以落在哪一個部分這是怎麼決定的\n聽長長的顧問,現在大概我們會在裡面每一個上來每一個都跟你爭取啊每一個都說次長你跟著我們去會刊啊會刊以後就會協助地方政府啊然後就答應,是這樣嗎?沒有沒有,這個還是要地方提出來以後然後看我們的遺傳是,其實是要地方提出來嘛而且地方會就他所有要建設的可能他還會進行一個排序,不是嗎?是\n所以到底這個地方能不能夠得到中央前瞻這種特別預算的支持其實最重要的因素就是在地方的排序啊那你們有沒有對地方的排序做過檢核他為什麼這樣排他為什麼不是那樣排\n主席\n我認為不但是在第5期因為第5期還是有這種停車場的爭取所以部內這邊應該要對於標準地方提出來的要做一個考慮這是第一個然後未來如果將來還有特別預算的話\n也應該要對地方政府的排序中央要能夠有一套能夠讓大家說服的旅遊標準這是有對交通部的建議啊那第二個的話不好意思我們要請環境部彭部長彭部長你可能會覺得這個跟你有什麼關係\n但是我們新北市的肉品市場它有很大的汙水處理問題汙水處理問題可以用在什麼樣的計畫能爭取到經費呢其實是環境部的全國水環境改善計畫但是很遺憾的這個計畫依然是要地方政府提出申請所以你可能根本從來沒有看過這個計畫也不知道要怎麼補助但是部長\n我想要為你這邊再多提出一個標準就是如果地方政府沒有提出申請的話那麼中央部會是不是可以基於考慮它的公益性還有影響的廣大性中央有沒有第二軌可以介入來支持地方的計畫我認為是應該要考慮的啊為什麼因為新北市肉品市場不是單純的新北市服務新北市民耶它是北台灣最大的屠宰中心啊\n〈中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案),\n我認為不管是在這個第5期或者是在未來的特別預算假設還有的話我認為像這樣子的計畫中央是不是有機會可以基於公益性影響範圍性介入調查介入支持\n好沒問題委員這個部分我們會列入考慮我藉著這個公開執行的機會讓你了解有這樣的case好那最後我想請謝謝那我想請農業部的陳部長和水利署的二署長兩個是講一樣的事情啦這件事情其實是這次三坨的颱風像新北的金山其實受到很大的災情那謝謝我們農業部還有水利署這邊都快速的來進行了整種的修復和災補的部分但是我也想告訴大家啦也是跟\n兩個部會這邊做一個討論就是既然我們接下來要做治水的工程也是有可能會用到前瞻的預算我在這裡再一次的公開要求災區的工程要列為優先支援的項目災區的工程要列為優先支援的項目不曉得兩個單位能不能夠答應因為它已經就是會有問題了嘛\n絕對同意委員這樣的一個想法,因為災區本身的一個附件,就是農水路的部分,我們一定會優先支持。是,水利署也一樣吧?百分之百認同,我們現在是朝這個方向。好,災區的部分,所以我想,謝謝兩位,謝謝陳部長和賴署長。所以我想我做個總結啦,我支持國家要繼續有預算支持公共建設,那不管它編列在哪裡,我認為要支持。\n各項標準,我認為地方當然有自主權,但中央也要保有適度的介入空間,這是我的論點。謝謝各位部會首長。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.549 --> 00:26.942\n財政部副主委、交通部五次長、農業部陳部長、水利署署長還有我們的環境部彭部長抱歉我們先請國發會的詹副主委回答那其他的因為是時間的關係因為各要你們一句話所以請你們稍微準備一下各個部長及次長不好意思不好意思請你們稍等一下好,詹副主委\n\n00:27.742 --> 00:54.195\n我想今天我們來討論的是前瞻基礎建設的第5期啦那第5期的意思也就是表示我們整個前瞻計畫8年8400億終於到了尾聲那國發會作為一個這個計畫的主持人、主持單位我不曉得你在最後這一期的時候你要不要做一個總結和評論覺得這樣的一個特別預算在執行國家基礎建設的工程你現在對它的評價如何?\n\n00:54.975 --> 01:11.665\n要不要再繼續未來?是跟委員報告根據特別條例其實整個計畫結束之後我們一定會做一個總評報告那我要你的現在啊那現在每個年度其實我們也都有做一個人的評價啦是是是是不是一句話就可以了嘛正面負面\n\n01:12.165 --> 01:33.371\n當然正面當然正面嘛這麼簡單的事情各個成績都在出來各個縣市都在爭取這麼簡單的肯定的一句話怎麼還要講這麼多次呢當然是肯定的啊而且事實上我們從歷任的總統來看連陳水扁總統、馬英九總統、蔡英文總統每一個總統都有在對公共建設基礎建設進行大的投資計畫前瞻計畫也不過就是\n\n01:37.432 --> 01:57.751\n是一樣在擴大台灣的基礎建設而已而且事實上成效卓著所以我在這裡今天的問題是問國發會有沒有打算在賴總統的任內再次提出我不管你叫什麼名字我不管你用什麼方式有沒有要對台灣的公共建設再次的提出相關可能的計畫\n\n01:59.268 --> 02:23.120\n跟委員報告因為很多公共建設都是跨期比較長的又是跨域的所以這部分我們都會跟各部會討論會繼續推動這樣是要還是不要就重大的公共建設一定會繼續推動這是沒有問題的我問你的是要不要編列關於推動公共建設的計畫啊推動公共建設當然要啊\n\n02:24.657 --> 02:34.949\n是對推動公共建設的計畫如果各部會跟地方都有需求的話叫行政院審議我們國發會一定會去繼續支持你至少可以就你個人表態吧\n\n02:38.009 --> 03:03.008\n這部分的政策當然是會繼續支持各部會再提的公共建設計畫是沒有問題的國發會這樣就太客氣了竟然叫做國家發展委員會對於自己國家的公共建設竟然不敢大聲支持我是覺得這樣子是太弱了一點委員在這裡要求國家應該要提出這樣的計畫再繼續支持整個台灣讓我們的城鄉差距可以縮小的公共建設計畫副主委\n\n03:05.209 --> 03:28.185\n請您先在旁邊休息,我要的是這樣的計畫但是根據現在八年前瞻的經驗下來我認為有很多的標準可以討論一下比如說我在選區這邊其實我們剛剛也聽到很多委員質詢確實只要停車場、活動中心都是廣受歡迎的建設我要先請交通部五次長\n\n03:31.188 --> 03:44.218\n這麼受歡迎的建設停車場你剛剛很多委員都在爭取你每一個上來你都答應他那到底最後所有的預算到底可以落在哪一個部分這是怎麼決定的\n\n03:46.707 --> 04:11.955\n聽長長的顧問,現在大概我們會在裡面每一個上來每一個都跟你爭取啊每一個都說次長你跟著我們去會刊啊會刊以後就會協助地方政府啊然後就答應,是這樣嗎?沒有沒有,這個還是要地方提出來以後然後看我們的遺傳是,其實是要地方提出來嘛而且地方會就他所有要建設的可能他還會進行一個排序,不是嗎?是\n\n04:13.015 --> 04:27.688\n所以到底這個地方能不能夠得到中央前瞻這種特別預算的支持其實最重要的因素就是在地方的排序啊那你們有沒有對地方的排序做過檢核他為什麼這樣排他為什麼不是那樣排\n\n04:29.309 --> 04:29.429\n主席\n\n04:49.716 --> 04:56.223\n我認為不但是在第5期因為第5期還是有這種停車場的爭取所以部內這邊應該要對於標準地方提出來的要做一個考慮這是第一個然後未來如果將來還有特別預算的話\n\n05:10.359 --> 05:26.408\n也應該要對地方政府的排序中央要能夠有一套能夠讓大家說服的旅遊標準這是有對交通部的建議啊那第二個的話不好意思我們要請環境部彭部長彭部長你可能會覺得這個跟你有什麼關係\n\n05:27.589 --> 05:50.640\n但是我們新北市的肉品市場它有很大的汙水處理問題汙水處理問題可以用在什麼樣的計畫能爭取到經費呢其實是環境部的全國水環境改善計畫但是很遺憾的這個計畫依然是要地方政府提出申請所以你可能根本從來沒有看過這個計畫也不知道要怎麼補助但是部長\n\n05:51.320 --> 06:20.037\n我想要為你這邊再多提出一個標準就是如果地方政府沒有提出申請的話那麼中央部會是不是可以基於考慮它的公益性還有影響的廣大性中央有沒有第二軌可以介入來支持地方的計畫我認為是應該要考慮的啊為什麼因為新北市肉品市場不是單純的新北市服務新北市民耶它是北台灣最大的屠宰中心啊\n\n06:20.817 --> 06:22.357\n〈中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案),\n\n06:43.723 --> 06:46.386\n我認為不管是在這個第5期或者是在未來的特別預算假設還有的話我認為像這樣子的計畫中央是不是有機會可以基於公益性影響範圍性介入調查介入支持\n\n06:59.722 --> 07:29.071\n好沒問題委員這個部分我們會列入考慮我藉著這個公開執行的機會讓你了解有這樣的case好那最後我想請謝謝那我想請農業部的陳部長和水利署的二署長兩個是講一樣的事情啦這件事情其實是這次三坨的颱風像新北的金山其實受到很大的災情那謝謝我們農業部還有水利署這邊都快速的來進行了整種的修復和災補的部分但是我也想告訴大家啦也是跟\n\n07:30.252 --> 07:52.353\n兩個部會這邊做一個討論就是既然我們接下來要做治水的工程也是有可能會用到前瞻的預算我在這裡再一次的公開要求災區的工程要列為優先支援的項目災區的工程要列為優先支援的項目不曉得兩個單位能不能夠答應因為它已經就是會有問題了嘛\n\n07:53.614 --> 08:16.933\n絕對同意委員這樣的一個想法,因為災區本身的一個附件,就是農水路的部分,我們一定會優先支持。是,水利署也一樣吧?百分之百認同,我們現在是朝這個方向。好,災區的部分,所以我想,謝謝兩位,謝謝陳部長和賴署長。所以我想我做個總結啦,我支持國家要繼續有預算支持公共建設,那不管它編列在哪裡,我認為要支持。\n\n08:17.373 --> 08:23.719\n各項標準,我認為地方當然有自主權,但中央也要保有適度的介入空間,這是我的論點。謝謝各位部會首長。\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.549,"end":26.942,"text":"財政部副主委、交通部五次長、農業部陳部長、水利署署長還有我們的環境部彭部長抱歉我們先請國發會的詹副主委回答那其他的因為是時間的關係因為各要你們一句話所以請你們稍微準備一下各個部長及次長不好意思不好意思請你們稍等一下好,詹副主委"},{"start":27.742,"end":54.195,"text":"我想今天我們來討論的是前瞻基礎建設的第5期啦那第5期的意思也就是表示我們整個前瞻計畫8年8400億終於到了尾聲那國發會作為一個這個計畫的主持人、主持單位我不曉得你在最後這一期的時候你要不要做一個總結和評論覺得這樣的一個特別預算在執行國家基礎建設的工程你現在對它的評價如何?"},{"start":54.975,"end":71.665,"text":"要不要再繼續未來?是跟委員報告根據特別條例其實整個計畫結束之後我們一定會做一個總評報告那我要你的現在啊那現在每個年度其實我們也都有做一個人的評價啦是是是是不是一句話就可以了嘛正面負面"},{"start":72.165,"end":93.371,"text":"當然正面當然正面嘛這麼簡單的事情各個成績都在出來各個縣市都在爭取這麼簡單的肯定的一句話怎麼還要講這麼多次呢當然是肯定的啊而且事實上我們從歷任的總統來看連陳水扁總統、馬英九總統、蔡英文總統每一個總統都有在對公共建設基礎建設進行大的投資計畫前瞻計畫也不過就是"},{"start":97.432,"end":117.751,"text":"是一樣在擴大台灣的基礎建設而已而且事實上成效卓著所以我在這裡今天的問題是問國發會有沒有打算在賴總統的任內再次提出我不管你叫什麼名字我不管你用什麼方式有沒有要對台灣的公共建設再次的提出相關可能的計畫"},{"start":119.268,"end":143.12,"text":"跟委員報告因為很多公共建設都是跨期比較長的又是跨域的所以這部分我們都會跟各部會討論會繼續推動這樣是要還是不要就重大的公共建設一定會繼續推動這是沒有問題的我問你的是要不要編列關於推動公共建設的計畫啊推動公共建設當然要啊"},{"start":144.657,"end":154.949,"text":"是對推動公共建設的計畫如果各部會跟地方都有需求的話叫行政院審議我們國發會一定會去繼續支持你至少可以就你個人表態吧"},{"start":158.009,"end":183.008,"text":"這部分的政策當然是會繼續支持各部會再提的公共建設計畫是沒有問題的國發會這樣就太客氣了竟然叫做國家發展委員會對於自己國家的公共建設竟然不敢大聲支持我是覺得這樣子是太弱了一點委員在這裡要求國家應該要提出這樣的計畫再繼續支持整個台灣讓我們的城鄉差距可以縮小的公共建設計畫副主委"},{"start":185.209,"end":208.185,"text":"請您先在旁邊休息,我要的是這樣的計畫但是根據現在八年前瞻的經驗下來我認為有很多的標準可以討論一下比如說我在選區這邊其實我們剛剛也聽到很多委員質詢確實只要停車場、活動中心都是廣受歡迎的建設我要先請交通部五次長"},{"start":211.188,"end":224.218,"text":"這麼受歡迎的建設停車場你剛剛很多委員都在爭取你每一個上來你都答應他那到底最後所有的預算到底可以落在哪一個部分這是怎麼決定的"},{"start":226.707,"end":251.955,"text":"聽長長的顧問,現在大概我們會在裡面每一個上來每一個都跟你爭取啊每一個都說次長你跟著我們去會刊啊會刊以後就會協助地方政府啊然後就答應,是這樣嗎?沒有沒有,這個還是要地方提出來以後然後看我們的遺傳是,其實是要地方提出來嘛而且地方會就他所有要建設的可能他還會進行一個排序,不是嗎?是"},{"start":253.015,"end":267.688,"text":"所以到底這個地方能不能夠得到中央前瞻這種特別預算的支持其實最重要的因素就是在地方的排序啊那你們有沒有對地方的排序做過檢核他為什麼這樣排他為什麼不是那樣排"},{"start":269.309,"end":269.429,"text":"主席"},{"start":289.716,"end":296.223,"text":"我認為不但是在第5期因為第5期還是有這種停車場的爭取所以部內這邊應該要對於標準地方提出來的要做一個考慮這是第一個然後未來如果將來還有特別預算的話"},{"start":310.359,"end":326.408,"text":"也應該要對地方政府的排序中央要能夠有一套能夠讓大家說服的旅遊標準這是有對交通部的建議啊那第二個的話不好意思我們要請環境部彭部長彭部長你可能會覺得這個跟你有什麼關係"},{"start":327.589,"end":350.64,"text":"但是我們新北市的肉品市場它有很大的汙水處理問題汙水處理問題可以用在什麼樣的計畫能爭取到經費呢其實是環境部的全國水環境改善計畫但是很遺憾的這個計畫依然是要地方政府提出申請所以你可能根本從來沒有看過這個計畫也不知道要怎麼補助但是部長"},{"start":351.32,"end":380.037,"text":"我想要為你這邊再多提出一個標準就是如果地方政府沒有提出申請的話那麼中央部會是不是可以基於考慮它的公益性還有影響的廣大性中央有沒有第二軌可以介入來支持地方的計畫我認為是應該要考慮的啊為什麼因為新北市肉品市場不是單純的新北市服務新北市民耶它是北台灣最大的屠宰中心啊"},{"start":380.817,"end":382.357,"text":"〈中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案),"},{"start":403.723,"end":406.386,"text":"我認為不管是在這個第5期或者是在未來的特別預算假設還有的話我認為像這樣子的計畫中央是不是有機會可以基於公益性影響範圍性介入調查介入支持"},{"start":419.722,"end":449.071,"text":"好沒問題委員這個部分我們會列入考慮我藉著這個公開執行的機會讓你了解有這樣的case好那最後我想請謝謝那我想請農業部的陳部長和水利署的二署長兩個是講一樣的事情啦這件事情其實是這次三坨的颱風像新北的金山其實受到很大的災情那謝謝我們農業部還有水利署這邊都快速的來進行了整種的修復和災補的部分但是我也想告訴大家啦也是跟"},{"start":450.252,"end":472.353,"text":"兩個部會這邊做一個討論就是既然我們接下來要做治水的工程也是有可能會用到前瞻的預算我在這裡再一次的公開要求災區的工程要列為優先支援的項目災區的工程要列為優先支援的項目不曉得兩個單位能不能夠答應因為它已經就是會有問題了嘛"},{"start":473.614,"end":496.933,"text":"絕對同意委員這樣的一個想法,因為災區本身的一個附件,就是農水路的部分,我們一定會優先支持。是,水利署也一樣吧?百分之百認同,我們現在是朝這個方向。好,災區的部分,所以我想,謝謝兩位,謝謝陳部長和賴署長。所以我想我做個總結啦,我支持國家要繼續有預算支持公共建設,那不管它編列在哪裡,我認為要支持。"},{"start":497.373,"end":503.719,"text":"各項標準,我認為地方當然有自主權,但中央也要保有適度的介入空間,這是我的論點。謝謝各位部會首長。"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1871,"blocks":[["蘇委員巧慧：（11時58分）謝謝主席，我請國發會詹副主委。"],["主席：請詹副主委。"],["蘇委員巧慧：交通部伍次長。"],["主席：好，請伍次長。"],["蘇委員巧慧：農業部陳部長。"],["主席：請陳部長。"],["蘇委員巧慧：水利署署長。"],["主席：請賴署長。"],["蘇委員巧慧：還有環境部彭部長。"],["主席：請彭部長。"],["蘇委員巧慧：抱歉，我先請國發會詹副主委回答，至於其他官員，因為時間關係，又各需要你們一句話，所以請你們稍微準備一下。各位部長及次長，不好意思，請你們稍等一下。"],["詹副主任委員方冠：委員好。"],["蘇委員巧慧：詹副主委，今天我們討論的是前瞻基礎建設的第五期，第五期的意思就表示整個前瞻計畫的8年8,400億終於到了尾聲。國發會作為計畫的主持人、主持單位，不曉得你在最後這一期要不要做一個總結和評論？以這樣的特別預算執行國家基礎建設工程，你現在對它的評價如何？要不要未來再繼續？"],["詹副主任委員方冠：是，跟委員報告，根據特別條例，其實在整個計畫結束之後，我們一定會做總評報告。"],["蘇委員巧慧：但我要你現在評價啊！"],["詹副主任委員方冠：現在每個年度我們其實也都有做績效檢討。"],["蘇委員巧慧：你個人的評價啦！"],["詹副主任委員方冠：是，是。"],["蘇委員巧慧：一句話就可以了，正面？負面？"],["詹副主任委員方冠：當然正面。"],["蘇委員巧慧：當然正面嘛！這麼簡單的事情，各個成績都出來，各個縣市也都在爭取，這麼簡單、肯定的一句話，怎麼還要講這麼多次呢？當然是肯定的啊！事實上，我們看歷任的總統──陳水扁總統、馬英九總統、蔡英文總統，每一位總統都有對公共建設、基礎建設進行大的投資計畫，前瞻計畫一樣是在擴大臺灣的基礎建設，而且成效卓著。所以，我今天的問題是問國發會有沒有打算在賴總統的任內再次提出，不管你用什麼名字，也不管你用什麼方式，有沒有要對臺灣的公共建設再次提出相關可能的計畫？"],["詹副主任委員方冠：跟委員報告，因為很多公共建設都是跨期比較長，又跨區域，所以我們都會跟各部會討論，會繼續推動。"],["蘇委員巧慧：這樣是要還是不要？"],["詹副主任委員方冠：重大的公共建設一定會繼續推動，這是沒有問題的。"],["蘇委員巧慧：我問你的是，要不要編列關於推動公共建設的計畫？推動公共建設當然要啊！"],["詹副主任委員方冠：推動公共建設的計畫，如果各部會跟地方都有需求的話，交由行政院審議，我們國發會一定會繼續支持。"],["蘇委員巧慧：你至少可以就你個人表態吧？"],["詹副主任委員方冠：這部分的政策當然是會繼續支持各部會在提的公共建設計畫，是沒有問題的。"],["蘇委員巧慧：國發會這樣就太客氣了，既然稱作國家發展委員會，對於自己國家的公共建設，竟然不敢大聲支持，我覺得這樣子是太弱了一點。委員在這裡要求，國家應該要提出這樣的計畫，再繼續支持整個臺灣，讓我們的城鄉差距可以縮小的公共建設計畫。請副主委先在旁邊休息，我要的是這樣的計畫，但是根據前瞻建設八年來的經驗，我認為有很多的標準可以討論一下。","我們剛剛也聽到很多委員質詢，停車場、活動中心確實都是廣受歡迎的建設，我要先請教交通部伍次長，這麼受歡迎的建設─停車場，很多委員都在爭取，每一個上來，你都答應他，最後所有的預算到底可以落在哪一個部分？它是怎麼決定的？"],["伍次長勝園：停車場的部分，我們現在大概會……"],["蘇委員巧慧：對啊！每一個委員上來都在跟你爭取，每一個都說：次長你跟我們去會勘，會勘以後，是不是就協助地方政府，然後就答應？是這樣嗎？"],["伍次長勝園：沒有，沒有，這個還是要地方提出來以後，然後看我們的預算……"],["蘇委員巧慧：其實是要地方提出來嘛！而且地方會就所有要建設的、可能要建設的，進行一個排序，不是嗎？地方能不能夠得到中央前瞻這種特別預算的支持，其實最重要的因素就是在地方的排序，你們有沒有對地方的排序做過檢覈─他為什麼這樣排，為什麼不是那樣排？本席很幸運，我們的樹林長壽公園得到了支持，靠近鶯歌老街的鶯歌公八公園要爭取停車場，它並不輸淡水，可是就始終沒有辦法；我也非常贊成淡水應該要設，甚至人口稠密的三重，我也覺得應該要設，對於這個標準，你要怎麼看？"],["伍次長勝園：我跟委員報告，其實地方提出來的，包括它的可行，還有它的經濟效益，我們都會做考量，會去做評估……"],["蘇委員巧慧：我認為不但是在第五期，因為第五期還是有這種停車場的爭取，所以部內應該要對地方提出來的，做一個考慮；未來如果還有特別預算的話，中央對地方政府的排序，也應該要有一套能夠說服大家的理由標準，這是我對交通部的建議。"],["伍次長勝園：是。"],["蘇委員巧慧：再來要請教環境部彭部長，你可能會覺得這個跟你有什麼關係，主要是我們新北市的肉品市場有很大的污水處理問題，污水處理問題可以用什麼樣的計畫爭取到經費呢？其實是環境部的全國水環境改善計畫。但是很遺憾的，這個計畫依然要地方政府提出申請，所以你可能根本沒有看過這個計畫，也不知道要怎麼補助；但是部長，我想要為你這邊再多提出一個標準─如果地方政府沒有提出申請的話，中央部會是不是可以基於考慮它的公益性，還有影響的廣大性，中央有沒有第二軌可以介入來支持地方的計畫？我認為這是應該要考慮的，因為新北市肉品市場不是單純的服務新北市民，它是北臺灣最大的屠宰中心。現在的狀況是污水不處理，旁邊受到污染，然後就天天開罰單；若是要處理，這個預算到底要怎麼支付？中央要不要幫忙？其實中央一直很願意幫忙，但是地方沒有送上來的話，我們沒有辦法介入。所以，不管是在第五期或是未來如果還有特別預算的話，我認為像這樣的計畫，中央是不是可以基於公益性、影響範圍性，介入支持？"],["彭部長啓明：委員，沒有問題，這個部分我們會列入考慮。"],["蘇委員巧慧：本席藉這個公開質詢的機會，讓你了解有這樣的case。"],["彭部長啓明：好的。"],["蘇委員巧慧：謝謝。最後我想請教農業部陳部長和水利署賴署長，這次山陀兒颱風讓新北的金山受到很大的災情，謝謝農業部還有水利署，快速進行了種種的修復和災補。本席想跟兩個部會在這邊做一個討論，我們接下來要進行治水工程，有可能會用到前瞻的預算，我在這裡再次公開要求，災區的工程要列為優先支援的項目，不曉得兩個單位能否答應？因為它就已經會有問題了嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：絕對同意委員這樣的一個想法，因為災區本身的一個復建，農水路的部分，我們一定會優先支持。"],["蘇委員巧慧：水利署也一樣？"],["賴署長建信：百分之百認同，我們現在就是朝這個方向來進行。"],["蘇委員巧慧：災區的部分，要謝謝陳部長和賴署長。本席做個總結：我支持國家要繼續有預算支持公共建設，不管它編列在哪裡，我都認為要支持；至於各項的標準，地方當然有自主權，但中央也要保有適度的介入空間。這是我的論點。謝謝各位部會首長，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝蘇巧慧委員，我們中午休息30分鐘，請大家用餐。12點40分的時候回到會場。下一位發言的是邱議瑩委員。謝謝。","休息（12時7分）","繼續開會（12時40分）"],["主席：現在繼續開會，請大家就座。","請邱議瑩委員，邱議瑩、邱議瑩、邱議瑩委員不在。","請黃捷委員，黃捷、黃捷、黃捷委員不在。","請王美惠委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":312,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-2-20,15,19,22,23,26-1","speakers":["陳玉珍","林德福","吳秉叡","李坤城","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","林宜瑾","郭國文","賴惠員","賴士葆","洪孟楷","顏寬恒","萬美玲","王世堅","蘇巧慧","王美惠","張雅琳","柯志恩","王鴻薇","陳超明","陳菁徽","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","李昆澤","黃秀芳","吳沛憶","林月琴","郭昱晴","陳秀寳","陳培瑜","李柏毅","張智倫","李彥秀","黃健豪","徐富癸","張宏陸","謝衣鳯","楊瓊瓔","劉建國","范雲","游顥","林倩綺","王正旭","何欣純","羅明才","鄭正鈐","王育敏","葛如鈞","邱志偉","羅廷瑋","盧縣一","吳春城","黃珊珊","林俊憲","黃國昌","蘇清泉","陳昭姿","蔡其昌","張嘉郡","陳素月","邱議瑩","葉元之","邱鎮軍","蔡易餘"],"page_start":67,"meetingDate":["2024-11-20"],"gazette_id":"11310301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310301_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政、內政、經濟、教育及文化、交通、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請相關部會首長就「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第4期特別預算執行情形及成效」進行專\n題報告，並備質詢；二、審查行政院函請審議「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第 5 期特別預算案\n（114年度）」（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"11310301_00002"}}}