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不是不是那為什麼他要延後廚藝呢你是說那個麥寮那個是因為麥寮那個是不是台電的公司他是民營的啊他是民營的啊那廚藝的時間是到了啊今年的六月啊民營台電之間有契約時間雖然到了但是容量沒有到供電的容量沒有到你們有一套的說法啦那好我們回來講大潭的七號機跟九號機為什麼一直的延後呢\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 189.807, \"end\": 189.947, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 189.947, \"end\": 190.247, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 190.247, \"end\": 190.387, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 190.387, \"end\": 191.008, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 191.008, \"end\": 191.108, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 191.108, \"end\": 191.268, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 191.268, \"end\": 191.548, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 191.548, \"end\": 192.289, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 192.289, \"end\": 192.529, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 192.529, \"end\": 192.989, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"延\", \"start\": 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{\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 547.939, \"end\": 548.079, \"score\": 0.793}, {\"word\": \"足\", \"start\": 548.079, \"end\": 548.319, \"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 548.319, \"end\": 548.479, \"score\": 0.725}, {\"word\": \"編\"}, {\"word\": \"組\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 548.479, \"end\": 548.599, \"score\": 0.777}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 548.599, \"end\": 548.619, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 548.619, \"end\": 548.639, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 548.639, \"end\": 548.659, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,629 --> 00:00:16,312\n請呂玉玲委員謝謝主席請經濟部的郭部長台電公司的曾董事長委員好部長\n\n2\n00:00:24,909 --> 00:00:51,169\n我們賴清德總統曾經說要大力的來發展AI人工的智慧讓我們台灣可以在半導體產業跟AI的產業能夠立足在全世界成為一個科技島當然部長也應該知道不管是我們的半導體還是AI的這個產業都非常需要大量的電但是我們台灣一直是缺電的情形雖然我們執政的政府一直講說沒有缺電但是還是有\n\n3\n00:00:53,351 --> 00:01:12,145\n停電跟跳電事件頻傳的來發生那尤其是天下雜誌的民調特別有提到有七成的民眾很擔心著台灣是缺電的風險另外有七成的民眾更是支持核電跟再生能源可以同步來一起的來發展尤其是在11月13號賴清德總統跟我們的工業總會特別有在談話中表示說只要新的能源能夠發展\n\n4\n00:01:21,852 --> 00:01:22,012\n委員：呂玲\n\n5\n00:01:41,381 --> 00:02:06,106\n報導委員我想您剛才在說這個七成的人擔心我們的電不夠我不知道這個是誰說的不過我在這裡鄭重的跟你報告我剛剛講的就是那個雜誌他們民調出來的結果雜誌民調的對象天下雜誌那你一定要參考你不要忽略到我們社會大眾的觀感好不好是是是謝謝委員這個部分我們當然參考\n\n6\n00:02:07,492 --> 00:02:11,617\n那我要跟你們報告的是說我們沒有缺電\n\n7\n00:02:13,090 --> 00:02:28,743\n您有確定還是有頻繁的這個跳電跟停電的問題嗎?所以你們一再的保證又說明來澄清但是民眾還是擔心的所以現在我們要讓我們的成為科技島電就要穩定供電所以我現在要問的部長的問題就是說在我們桃園大潭電廠7號機跟9號機一再的延宕\n\n8\n00:02:37,671 --> 00:02:44,276\n雖然說有這個九號機已經點火測試了五月測試那八月份也已經閉網了但是現在還沒有拿到能源局的執照還沒有辦法供電所以我們請了民間電廠、麥寮電廠他本來是在這個五月份、六月份的時候就要除役現在要延到明年的11月10號11月份明年的11月份才會來除役\n\n9\n00:03:04,673 --> 00:03:08,852\n所以這就是因為要補我們缺電的這個缺口嘛是不是\n\n10\n00:03:09,807 --> 00:03:38,386\n報告委員不是不是那為什麼他要延後廚藝呢你是說那個麥寮那個是因為麥寮那個是不是台電的公司他是民營的啊他是民營的啊那廚藝的時間是到了啊今年的六月啊民營台電之間有契約時間雖然到了但是容量沒有到供電的容量沒有到你們有一套的說法啦那好我們回來講大潭的七號機跟九號機為什麼一直的延後呢\n\n11\n00:03:40,756 --> 00:04:00,550\n這個我是不是請延後兩次囉是不是請他們來說王總經理報告委員之前7號機、9號機延後當然是因為COVID-19的關係還有就是俄羅斯戰爭、缺工等等這些因素但是目前這兩部機已經都在測試運轉了在測試中在測試中所以它平常都會有9號機\n\n12\n00:04:04,712 --> 00:04:30,948\n7號機是快的9號機已經在5月份測試了8月份併網了現在是7號機還沒有點火測試所以擔心的是萬一測試不成功的話我們是不是又有缺電的問題不會因為7號機目前的測試的程序都是一步一步很扎實在進行還沒測試啊什麼時候測試我說我們都會做局部的一個小的一個\n\n13\n00:04:31,688 --> 00:04:36,032\n他跟你講了7號機還沒有測試耶9號機測試了還沒發製造我現在問你7號機呢7號機12月初就會點火他測試要成功他失敗的話就沒辦法併網了\n\n14\n00:04:49,222 --> 00:04:51,465\n請部長、董事長、總經理加強控管整個的期程不要讓民眾有缺電的恐懼\n\n15\n00:05:03,899 --> 00:05:08,663\n臺電的先請回那我們講完電當然要講水那自來水的問題一直有這個漏水的問題跟管線老舊塑膠管線要太舊換新的問題尤其是我們李董事長非常認真的在派換這管線但是我們把這個數據啊調出來看了之後你看這個漏水的問題\n\n16\n00:05:30,139 --> 00:05:47,954\n從各個區總共有12個區還有加上屏東這些區域我們在平均112年的漏水率平均是12%但是你看到第一區第一區的話是基隆區漏水率是20%屏東區的漏水率還是19%所以這些問題為什麼沒辦法解決呢\n\n17\n00:05:54,100 --> 00:06:11,105\n我們102年到112年這10年的貸款已經在做了啊做到現在10年了這個貸款率還是沒有完成跟委員報告因為第一區是我們基隆地區啦那他那邊的地形都是丘陵地所以我們建安要佔很多\n\n18\n00:06:11,965 --> 00:06:34,857\n加壓供水管線就比較容易有破損所以要加強管控這個加壓供水雖然說我們這個老舊管線的汰換是有足年代的汰換但是我們這個看到我們這個數據裡面它這個供水的漏水率還是還是有增加的部分還是有增加的部分是不是你看到在102年到110年這個情形\n\n19\n00:06:43,402 --> 00:07:06,395\n應該我們漏水率是每個單位都有逐漸在減少所以我們的漏水率的話並不是年限的問題有些的話就是地震或是氣候環境的關係所以我們希望有漏水有爆管的我們就直接換新管好不好不要一直補都沒有用你補的後面的話你加壓下去的話它就會爆管了\n\n20\n00:07:09,570 --> 00:07:28,159\n尤其是有塑膠管我們塑膠管的話也是逐年汰換但是我們看到我們昨天看到這個塑膠管的情形也是一樣尤其是你看到這個我們的使用年限使用年限的話本來102年是36%的話到了現在112年的話46%這個反而增加了反而增加了這是很奇怪的問題吧\n\n21\n00:07:36,448 --> 00:07:49,118\n跟委員報告我們現在那個因為塑膠管要使用年限大概20年可是我們逐年都在換啊這必須要逐年減少嘛所以這個是不是預算不足預算不足的話你就多編一些預算啊\n\n22\n00:07:49,932 --> 00:08:10,548\n是不是?對,我們塑膠管是類為優先來汰換使用年限我們現在使用年限是20年還是30年?要換管的我們塑膠管是20年20年,很多地方超過30年沒換管我相信自來水公司都有數據資料所以可以朝這方面來換管嘛因為它是30年還是塑膠管的話因為20年以上的機會還是塑膠管你塑膠管停電再來電的時候它就會爆管\n\n23\n00:08:17,413 --> 00:08:41,021\n熱帳人說他就會報館而且塑膠管裡面有很多的誤會的雜誌在裡面是不是所以要優先好不好這是使用年限的問題第二個問題的話就是這個塑膠管的問題塑膠管我沒有看到啦塑膠管雖然你逐年他換的話他有減少部分但是我們希望齁這個一定要按時間來尤其我要提的就是說\n\n24\n00:08:41,621 --> 00:09:08,659\n很多的社區沒有使用自來水的他們申請的時候請董事長優先給他們換一個社區都是兩三百戶喔他們用黃泥水在飲用因為現在的井水都被汙染了所以請董事長尤其是社區的管線要申請自來水請你們優先給他們使用好不好因為是大的社區可不可以那我們要加強這個太舊換新的管線是不是預算不足請你編組來好不好好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n629\t16312\t請呂玉玲委員謝謝主席 請經濟部的郭部長 台電公司的曾董事長委員好 部長\n24909\t51169\t我們賴清德總統曾經說要大力的來發展AI人工的智慧讓我們台灣可以在半導體產業跟AI的產業能夠立足在全世界成為一個科技島當然部長也應該知道不管是我們的半導體還是AI的這個產業都非常需要大量的電但是我們台灣一直是缺電的情形雖然我們執政的政府一直講說沒有缺電但是還是有\n53351\t72145\t停電跟跳電事件頻傳的來發生那尤其是天下雜誌的民調特別有提到有七成的民眾很擔心著台灣是缺電的風險另外有七成的民眾更是支持核電跟再生能源可以同步來一起的來發展尤其是在11月13號賴清德總統跟我們的工業總會特別有在談話中表示說只要新的能源能夠發展\n81852\t82012\t委員：呂玲\n101381\t126106\t報導委員我想您剛才在說這個七成的人擔心我們的電不夠我不知道這個是誰說的不過我在這裡鄭重的跟你報告我剛剛講的就是那個雜誌他們民調出來的結果雜誌民調的對象天下雜誌那你一定要參考你不要忽略到我們社會大眾的觀感好不好是是是謝謝委員這個部分我們當然參考\n127492\t131617\t那我要跟你們報告的是說我們沒有缺電\n133090\t148743\t您有確定還是有頻繁的這個跳電跟停電的問題嗎?所以你們一再的保證又說明來澄清但是民眾還是擔心的所以現在我們要讓我們的成為科技島電就要穩定供電所以我現在要問的部長的問題就是說在我們桃園大潭電廠7號機跟9號機一再的延宕\n157671\t164276\t雖然說有這個九號機已經點火測試了五月測試那八月份也已經閉網了但是現在還沒有拿到能源局的執照還沒有辦法供電所以我們請了民間電廠、麥寮電廠他本來是在這個五月份、六月份的時候就要除役現在要延到明年的11月10號11月份明年的11月份才會來除役\n184673\t188852\t所以這就是因為要補我們缺電的這個缺口嘛是不是\n189807\t218386\t報告委員 不是不是那為什麼他要延後廚藝呢你是說那個麥寮那個是因為麥寮那個是不是台電的公司他是民營的啊他是民營的啊那廚藝的時間是到了啊今年的六月啊民營台電之間有契約時間雖然到了但是容量沒有到供電的容量沒有到你們有一套的說法啦那好我們回來講大潭的七號機跟九號機為什麼一直的延後呢\n220756\t240550\t這個我是不是請 延後兩次囉 是不是請他們來說 王總經理報告委員 之前7號機、9號機延後當然是因為COVID-19的關係還有就是俄羅斯戰爭、缺工等等這些因素 但是目前這兩部機已經都在測試運轉了在測試中 在測試中 所以它平常都會有 9號機\n244712\t270948\t7號機是快的9號機已經在5月份測試了8月份併網了現在是7號機還沒有點火測試所以擔心的是萬一測試不成功的話我們是不是又有缺電的問題不會 因為7號機目前的測試的程序都是一步一步很扎實在進行還沒測試啊 什麼時候測試我說我們都會做局部的一個小的一個\n271688\t276032\t他跟你講了7號機還沒有測試耶9號機測試了還沒發製造我現在問你7號機呢7號機12月初就會點火他測試要成功他失敗的話就沒辦法併網了\n289222\t291465\t請部長、董事長、總經理加強控管整個的期程不要讓民眾有缺電的恐懼\n303899\t308663\t臺電的先請回那我們講完電當然要講水那自來水的問題一直有這個漏水的問題跟管線老舊塑膠管線要太舊換新的問題尤其是我們李董事長非常認真的在派換這管線但是我們把這個數據啊調出來看了之後你看這個漏水的問題\n330139\t347954\t從各個區 總共有12個區還有加上屏東這些區域我們在平均112年的漏水率平均是12%但是你看到第一區第一區的話是基隆區漏水率是20%屏東區的漏水率還是19%所以這些問題為什麼沒辦法解決呢\n354100\t371105\t我們102年到112年這10年的貸款已經在做了啊做到現在10年了這個貸款率還是沒有完成跟委員報告因為第一區是我們基隆地區啦那他那邊的地形都是丘陵地所以我們建安要佔很多\n371965\t394857\t加壓供水管線就比較容易有破損所以要加強管控這個加壓供水雖然說我們這個老舊管線的汰換是有足年代的汰換但是我們這個看到我們這個數據裡面它這個供水的漏水率還是還是有增加的部分還是有增加的部分是不是你看到在102年到110年這個情形\n403402\t426395\t應該我們漏水率是每個單位都有逐漸在減少所以我們的漏水率的話並不是年限的問題有些的話就是地震或是氣候環境的關係所以我們希望有漏水有爆管的我們就直接換新管好不好不要一直補都沒有用你補的後面的話你加壓下去的話它就會爆管了\n429570\t448159\t尤其是有塑膠管我們塑膠管的話也是逐年汰換但是我們看到我們昨天看到這個塑膠管的情形也是一樣尤其是你看到這個我們的使用年限使用年限的話本來102年是36%的話到了現在112年的話46%這個反而增加了反而增加了這是很奇怪的問題吧\n456448\t469118\t跟委員報告我們現在那個因為塑膠管要使用年限大概20年可是我們逐年都在換啊這必須要逐年減少嘛所以這個是不是預算不足預算不足的話你就多編一些預算啊\n469932\t490548\t是不是?對,我們塑膠管是類為優先來汰換使用年限我們現在使用年限是20年還是30年?要換管的我們塑膠管是20年20年,很多地方超過30年沒換管我相信自來水公司都有數據資料所以可以朝這方面來換管嘛因為它是30年還是塑膠管的話因為20年以上的機會還是塑膠管你塑膠管停電再來電的時候它就會爆管\n497413\t521021\t熱帳人說他就會報館而且塑膠管裡面有很多的誤會的雜誌在裡面是不是所以要優先好不好這是使用年限的問題第二個問題的話就是這個塑膠管的問題塑膠管我沒有看到啦塑膠管雖然你逐年他換的話他有減少部分但是我們希望齁這個一定要按時間來尤其我要提的就是說\n521621\t548659\t很多的社區沒有使用自來水的他們申請的時候請董事長優先給他們換一個社區都是兩三百戶喔他們用黃泥水在飲用因為現在的井水都被汙染了所以請董事長尤其是社區的管線要申請自來水請你們優先給他們使用好不好因為是大的社區可不可以那我們要加強這個太舊換新的管線是不是 預算不足請你編組來好不好好 謝謝\n551561\t551749\t﹗\n","txt":"請呂玉玲委員謝謝主席 請經濟部的郭部長 台電公司的曾董事長委員好 部長\n我們賴清德總統曾經說要大力的來發展AI人工的智慧讓我們台灣可以在半導體產業跟AI的產業能夠立足在全世界成為一個科技島當然部長也應該知道不管是我們的半導體還是AI的這個產業都非常需要大量的電但是我們台灣一直是缺電的情形雖然我們執政的政府一直講說沒有缺電但是還是有\n停電跟跳電事件頻傳的來發生那尤其是天下雜誌的民調特別有提到有七成的民眾很擔心著台灣是缺電的風險另外有七成的民眾更是支持核電跟再生能源可以同步來一起的來發展尤其是在11月13號賴清德總統跟我們的工業總會特別有在談話中表示說只要新的能源能夠發展\n委員：呂玲\n報導委員我想您剛才在說這個七成的人擔心我們的電不夠我不知道這個是誰說的不過我在這裡鄭重的跟你報告我剛剛講的就是那個雜誌他們民調出來的結果雜誌民調的對象天下雜誌那你一定要參考你不要忽略到我們社會大眾的觀感好不好是是是謝謝委員這個部分我們當然參考\n那我要跟你們報告的是說我們沒有缺電\n您有確定還是有頻繁的這個跳電跟停電的問題嗎?所以你們一再的保證又說明來澄清但是民眾還是擔心的所以現在我們要讓我們的成為科技島電就要穩定供電所以我現在要問的部長的問題就是說在我們桃園大潭電廠7號機跟9號機一再的延宕\n雖然說有這個九號機已經點火測試了五月測試那八月份也已經閉網了但是現在還沒有拿到能源局的執照還沒有辦法供電所以我們請了民間電廠、麥寮電廠他本來是在這個五月份、六月份的時候就要除役現在要延到明年的11月10號11月份明年的11月份才會來除役\n所以這就是因為要補我們缺電的這個缺口嘛是不是\n報告委員 不是不是那為什麼他要延後廚藝呢你是說那個麥寮那個是因為麥寮那個是不是台電的公司他是民營的啊他是民營的啊那廚藝的時間是到了啊今年的六月啊民營台電之間有契約時間雖然到了但是容量沒有到供電的容量沒有到你們有一套的說法啦那好我們回來講大潭的七號機跟九號機為什麼一直的延後呢\n這個我是不是請 延後兩次囉 是不是請他們來說 王總經理報告委員 之前7號機、9號機延後當然是因為COVID-19的關係還有就是俄羅斯戰爭、缺工等等這些因素 但是目前這兩部機已經都在測試運轉了在測試中 在測試中 所以它平常都會有 9號機\n7號機是快的9號機已經在5月份測試了8月份併網了現在是7號機還沒有點火測試所以擔心的是萬一測試不成功的話我們是不是又有缺電的問題不會 因為7號機目前的測試的程序都是一步一步很扎實在進行還沒測試啊 什麼時候測試我說我們都會做局部的一個小的一個\n他跟你講了7號機還沒有測試耶9號機測試了還沒發製造我現在問你7號機呢7號機12月初就會點火他測試要成功他失敗的話就沒辦法併網了\n請部長、董事長、總經理加強控管整個的期程不要讓民眾有缺電的恐懼\n臺電的先請回那我們講完電當然要講水那自來水的問題一直有這個漏水的問題跟管線老舊塑膠管線要太舊換新的問題尤其是我們李董事長非常認真的在派換這管線但是我們把這個數據啊調出來看了之後你看這個漏水的問題\n從各個區 總共有12個區還有加上屏東這些區域我們在平均112年的漏水率平均是12%但是你看到第一區第一區的話是基隆區漏水率是20%屏東區的漏水率還是19%所以這些問題為什麼沒辦法解決呢\n我們102年到112年這10年的貸款已經在做了啊做到現在10年了這個貸款率還是沒有完成跟委員報告因為第一區是我們基隆地區啦那他那邊的地形都是丘陵地所以我們建安要佔很多\n加壓供水管線就比較容易有破損所以要加強管控這個加壓供水雖然說我們這個老舊管線的汰換是有足年代的汰換但是我們這個看到我們這個數據裡面它這個供水的漏水率還是還是有增加的部分還是有增加的部分是不是你看到在102年到110年這個情形\n應該我們漏水率是每個單位都有逐漸在減少所以我們的漏水率的話並不是年限的問題有些的話就是地震或是氣候環境的關係所以我們希望有漏水有爆管的我們就直接換新管好不好不要一直補都沒有用你補的後面的話你加壓下去的話它就會爆管了\n尤其是有塑膠管我們塑膠管的話也是逐年汰換但是我們看到我們昨天看到這個塑膠管的情形也是一樣尤其是你看到這個我們的使用年限使用年限的話本來102年是36%的話到了現在112年的話46%這個反而增加了反而增加了這是很奇怪的問題吧\n跟委員報告我們現在那個因為塑膠管要使用年限大概20年可是我們逐年都在換啊這必須要逐年減少嘛所以這個是不是預算不足預算不足的話你就多編一些預算啊\n是不是?對,我們塑膠管是類為優先來汰換使用年限我們現在使用年限是20年還是30年?要換管的我們塑膠管是20年20年,很多地方超過30年沒換管我相信自來水公司都有數據資料所以可以朝這方面來換管嘛因為它是30年還是塑膠管的話因為20年以上的機會還是塑膠管你塑膠管停電再來電的時候它就會爆管\n熱帳人說他就會報館而且塑膠管裡面有很多的誤會的雜誌在裡面是不是所以要優先好不好這是使用年限的問題第二個問題的話就是這個塑膠管的問題塑膠管我沒有看到啦塑膠管雖然你逐年他換的話他有減少部分但是我們希望齁這個一定要按時間來尤其我要提的就是說\n很多的社區沒有使用自來水的他們申請的時候請董事長優先給他們換一個社區都是兩三百戶喔他們用黃泥水在飲用因為現在的井水都被汙染了所以請董事長尤其是社區的管線要申請自來水請你們優先給他們使用好不好因為是大的社區可不可以那我們要加強這個太舊換新的管線是不是 預算不足請你編組來好不好好 謝謝\n﹗\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.629 --> 00:16.312\n請呂玉玲委員謝謝主席請經濟部的郭部長台電公司的曾董事長委員好部長\n\n00:24.909 --> 00:51.169\n我們賴清德總統曾經說要大力的來發展AI人工的智慧讓我們台灣可以在半導體產業跟AI的產業能夠立足在全世界成為一個科技島當然部長也應該知道不管是我們的半導體還是AI的這個產業都非常需要大量的電但是我們台灣一直是缺電的情形雖然我們執政的政府一直講說沒有缺電但是還是有\n\n00:53.351 --> 01:12.145\n停電跟跳電事件頻傳的來發生那尤其是天下雜誌的民調特別有提到有七成的民眾很擔心著台灣是缺電的風險另外有七成的民眾更是支持核電跟再生能源可以同步來一起的來發展尤其是在11月13號賴清德總統跟我們的工業總會特別有在談話中表示說只要新的能源能夠發展\n\n01:21.852 --> 01:22.012\n委員：呂玲\n\n01:41.381 --> 02:06.106\n報導委員我想您剛才在說這個七成的人擔心我們的電不夠我不知道這個是誰說的不過我在這裡鄭重的跟你報告我剛剛講的就是那個雜誌他們民調出來的結果雜誌民調的對象天下雜誌那你一定要參考你不要忽略到我們社會大眾的觀感好不好是是是謝謝委員這個部分我們當然參考\n\n02:07.492 --> 02:11.617\n那我要跟你們報告的是說我們沒有缺電\n\n02:13.090 --> 02:28.743\n您有確定還是有頻繁的這個跳電跟停電的問題嗎?所以你們一再的保證又說明來澄清但是民眾還是擔心的所以現在我們要讓我們的成為科技島電就要穩定供電所以我現在要問的部長的問題就是說在我們桃園大潭電廠7號機跟9號機一再的延宕\n\n02:37.671 --> 02:44.276\n雖然說有這個九號機已經點火測試了五月測試那八月份也已經閉網了但是現在還沒有拿到能源局的執照還沒有辦法供電所以我們請了民間電廠、麥寮電廠他本來是在這個五月份、六月份的時候就要除役現在要延到明年的11月10號11月份明年的11月份才會來除役\n\n03:04.673 --> 03:08.852\n所以這就是因為要補我們缺電的這個缺口嘛是不是\n\n03:09.807 --> 03:38.386\n報告委員不是不是那為什麼他要延後廚藝呢你是說那個麥寮那個是因為麥寮那個是不是台電的公司他是民營的啊他是民營的啊那廚藝的時間是到了啊今年的六月啊民營台電之間有契約時間雖然到了但是容量沒有到供電的容量沒有到你們有一套的說法啦那好我們回來講大潭的七號機跟九號機為什麼一直的延後呢\n\n03:40.756 --> 04:00.550\n這個我是不是請延後兩次囉是不是請他們來說王總經理報告委員之前7號機、9號機延後當然是因為COVID-19的關係還有就是俄羅斯戰爭、缺工等等這些因素但是目前這兩部機已經都在測試運轉了在測試中在測試中所以它平常都會有9號機\n\n04:04.712 --> 04:30.948\n7號機是快的9號機已經在5月份測試了8月份併網了現在是7號機還沒有點火測試所以擔心的是萬一測試不成功的話我們是不是又有缺電的問題不會因為7號機目前的測試的程序都是一步一步很扎實在進行還沒測試啊什麼時候測試我說我們都會做局部的一個小的一個\n\n04:31.688 --> 04:36.032\n他跟你講了7號機還沒有測試耶9號機測試了還沒發製造我現在問你7號機呢7號機12月初就會點火他測試要成功他失敗的話就沒辦法併網了\n\n04:49.222 --> 04:51.465\n請部長、董事長、總經理加強控管整個的期程不要讓民眾有缺電的恐懼\n\n05:03.899 --> 05:08.663\n臺電的先請回那我們講完電當然要講水那自來水的問題一直有這個漏水的問題跟管線老舊塑膠管線要太舊換新的問題尤其是我們李董事長非常認真的在派換這管線但是我們把這個數據啊調出來看了之後你看這個漏水的問題\n\n05:30.139 --> 05:47.954\n從各個區總共有12個區還有加上屏東這些區域我們在平均112年的漏水率平均是12%但是你看到第一區第一區的話是基隆區漏水率是20%屏東區的漏水率還是19%所以這些問題為什麼沒辦法解決呢\n\n05:54.100 --> 06:11.105\n我們102年到112年這10年的貸款已經在做了啊做到現在10年了這個貸款率還是沒有完成跟委員報告因為第一區是我們基隆地區啦那他那邊的地形都是丘陵地所以我們建安要佔很多\n\n06:11.965 --> 06:34.857\n加壓供水管線就比較容易有破損所以要加強管控這個加壓供水雖然說我們這個老舊管線的汰換是有足年代的汰換但是我們這個看到我們這個數據裡面它這個供水的漏水率還是還是有增加的部分還是有增加的部分是不是你看到在102年到110年這個情形\n\n06:43.402 --> 07:06.395\n應該我們漏水率是每個單位都有逐漸在減少所以我們的漏水率的話並不是年限的問題有些的話就是地震或是氣候環境的關係所以我們希望有漏水有爆管的我們就直接換新管好不好不要一直補都沒有用你補的後面的話你加壓下去的話它就會爆管了\n\n07:09.570 --> 07:28.159\n尤其是有塑膠管我們塑膠管的話也是逐年汰換但是我們看到我們昨天看到這個塑膠管的情形也是一樣尤其是你看到這個我們的使用年限使用年限的話本來102年是36%的話到了現在112年的話46%這個反而增加了反而增加了這是很奇怪的問題吧\n\n07:36.448 --> 07:49.118\n跟委員報告我們現在那個因為塑膠管要使用年限大概20年可是我們逐年都在換啊這必須要逐年減少嘛所以這個是不是預算不足預算不足的話你就多編一些預算啊\n\n07:49.932 --> 08:10.548\n是不是?對,我們塑膠管是類為優先來汰換使用年限我們現在使用年限是20年還是30年?要換管的我們塑膠管是20年20年,很多地方超過30年沒換管我相信自來水公司都有數據資料所以可以朝這方面來換管嘛因為它是30年還是塑膠管的話因為20年以上的機會還是塑膠管你塑膠管停電再來電的時候它就會爆管\n\n08:17.413 --> 08:41.021\n熱帳人說他就會報館而且塑膠管裡面有很多的誤會的雜誌在裡面是不是所以要優先好不好這是使用年限的問題第二個問題的話就是這個塑膠管的問題塑膠管我沒有看到啦塑膠管雖然你逐年他換的話他有減少部分但是我們希望齁這個一定要按時間來尤其我要提的就是說\n\n08:41.621 --> 09:08.659\n很多的社區沒有使用自來水的他們申請的時候請董事長優先給他們換一個社區都是兩三百戶喔他們用黃泥水在飲用因為現在的井水都被汙染了所以請董事長尤其是社區的管線要申請自來水請你們優先給他們使用好不好因為是大的社區可不可以那我們要加強這個太舊換新的管線是不是預算不足請你編組來好不好好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.629,"end":16.312,"text":"請呂玉玲委員謝謝主席 請經濟部的郭部長 台電公司的曾董事長委員好 部長"},{"start":24.909,"end":51.169,"text":"我們賴清德總統曾經說要大力的來發展AI人工的智慧讓我們台灣可以在半導體產業跟AI的產業能夠立足在全世界成為一個科技島當然部長也應該知道不管是我們的半導體還是AI的這個產業都非常需要大量的電但是我們台灣一直是缺電的情形雖然我們執政的政府一直講說沒有缺電但是還是有"},{"start":53.351,"end":72.145,"text":"停電跟跳電事件頻傳的來發生那尤其是天下雜誌的民調特別有提到有七成的民眾很擔心著台灣是缺電的風險另外有七成的民眾更是支持核電跟再生能源可以同步來一起的來發展尤其是在11月13號賴清德總統跟我們的工業總會特別有在談話中表示說只要新的能源能夠發展"},{"start":81.852,"end":82.012,"text":"委員：呂玲"},{"start":101.381,"end":126.106,"text":"報導委員我想您剛才在說這個七成的人擔心我們的電不夠我不知道這個是誰說的不過我在這裡鄭重的跟你報告我剛剛講的就是那個雜誌他們民調出來的結果雜誌民調的對象天下雜誌那你一定要參考你不要忽略到我們社會大眾的觀感好不好是是是謝謝委員這個部分我們當然參考"},{"start":127.492,"end":131.617,"text":"那我要跟你們報告的是說我們沒有缺電"},{"start":133.09,"end":148.743,"text":"您有確定還是有頻繁的這個跳電跟停電的問題嗎?所以你們一再的保證又說明來澄清但是民眾還是擔心的所以現在我們要讓我們的成為科技島電就要穩定供電所以我現在要問的部長的問題就是說在我們桃園大潭電廠7號機跟9號機一再的延宕"},{"start":157.671,"end":164.276,"text":"雖然說有這個九號機已經點火測試了五月測試那八月份也已經閉網了但是現在還沒有拿到能源局的執照還沒有辦法供電所以我們請了民間電廠、麥寮電廠他本來是在這個五月份、六月份的時候就要除役現在要延到明年的11月10號11月份明年的11月份才會來除役"},{"start":184.673,"end":188.852,"text":"所以這就是因為要補我們缺電的這個缺口嘛是不是"},{"start":189.807,"end":218.386,"text":"報告委員 不是不是那為什麼他要延後廚藝呢你是說那個麥寮那個是因為麥寮那個是不是台電的公司他是民營的啊他是民營的啊那廚藝的時間是到了啊今年的六月啊民營台電之間有契約時間雖然到了但是容量沒有到供電的容量沒有到你們有一套的說法啦那好我們回來講大潭的七號機跟九號機為什麼一直的延後呢"},{"start":220.756,"end":240.55,"text":"這個我是不是請 延後兩次囉 是不是請他們來說 王總經理報告委員 之前7號機、9號機延後當然是因為COVID-19的關係還有就是俄羅斯戰爭、缺工等等這些因素 但是目前這兩部機已經都在測試運轉了在測試中 在測試中 所以它平常都會有 9號機"},{"start":244.712,"end":270.948,"text":"7號機是快的9號機已經在5月份測試了8月份併網了現在是7號機還沒有點火測試所以擔心的是萬一測試不成功的話我們是不是又有缺電的問題不會 因為7號機目前的測試的程序都是一步一步很扎實在進行還沒測試啊 什麼時候測試我說我們都會做局部的一個小的一個"},{"start":271.688,"end":276.032,"text":"他跟你講了7號機還沒有測試耶9號機測試了還沒發製造我現在問你7號機呢7號機12月初就會點火他測試要成功他失敗的話就沒辦法併網了"},{"start":289.222,"end":291.465,"text":"請部長、董事長、總經理加強控管整個的期程不要讓民眾有缺電的恐懼"},{"start":303.899,"end":308.663,"text":"臺電的先請回那我們講完電當然要講水那自來水的問題一直有這個漏水的問題跟管線老舊塑膠管線要太舊換新的問題尤其是我們李董事長非常認真的在派換這管線但是我們把這個數據啊調出來看了之後你看這個漏水的問題"},{"start":330.139,"end":347.954,"text":"從各個區 總共有12個區還有加上屏東這些區域我們在平均112年的漏水率平均是12%但是你看到第一區第一區的話是基隆區漏水率是20%屏東區的漏水率還是19%所以這些問題為什麼沒辦法解決呢"},{"start":354.1,"end":371.105,"text":"我們102年到112年這10年的貸款已經在做了啊做到現在10年了這個貸款率還是沒有完成跟委員報告因為第一區是我們基隆地區啦那他那邊的地形都是丘陵地所以我們建安要佔很多"},{"start":371.965,"end":394.857,"text":"加壓供水管線就比較容易有破損所以要加強管控這個加壓供水雖然說我們這個老舊管線的汰換是有足年代的汰換但是我們這個看到我們這個數據裡面它這個供水的漏水率還是還是有增加的部分還是有增加的部分是不是你看到在102年到110年這個情形"},{"start":403.402,"end":426.395,"text":"應該我們漏水率是每個單位都有逐漸在減少所以我們的漏水率的話並不是年限的問題有些的話就是地震或是氣候環境的關係所以我們希望有漏水有爆管的我們就直接換新管好不好不要一直補都沒有用你補的後面的話你加壓下去的話它就會爆管了"},{"start":429.57,"end":448.159,"text":"尤其是有塑膠管我們塑膠管的話也是逐年汰換但是我們看到我們昨天看到這個塑膠管的情形也是一樣尤其是你看到這個我們的使用年限使用年限的話本來102年是36%的話到了現在112年的話46%這個反而增加了反而增加了這是很奇怪的問題吧"},{"start":456.448,"end":469.118,"text":"跟委員報告我們現在那個因為塑膠管要使用年限大概20年可是我們逐年都在換啊這必須要逐年減少嘛所以這個是不是預算不足預算不足的話你就多編一些預算啊"},{"start":469.932,"end":490.548,"text":"是不是?對,我們塑膠管是類為優先來汰換使用年限我們現在使用年限是20年還是30年?要換管的我們塑膠管是20年20年,很多地方超過30年沒換管我相信自來水公司都有數據資料所以可以朝這方面來換管嘛因為它是30年還是塑膠管的話因為20年以上的機會還是塑膠管你塑膠管停電再來電的時候它就會爆管"},{"start":497.413,"end":521.021,"text":"熱帳人說他就會報館而且塑膠管裡面有很多的誤會的雜誌在裡面是不是所以要優先好不好這是使用年限的問題第二個問題的話就是這個塑膠管的問題塑膠管我沒有看到啦塑膠管雖然你逐年他換的話他有減少部分但是我們希望齁這個一定要按時間來尤其我要提的就是說"},{"start":521.621,"end":548.659,"text":"很多的社區沒有使用自來水的他們申請的時候請董事長優先給他們換一個社區都是兩三百戶喔他們用黃泥水在飲用因為現在的井水都被汙染了所以請董事長尤其是社區的管線要申請自來水請你們優先給他們使用好不好因為是大的社區可不可以那我們要加強這個太舊換新的管線是不是 預算不足請你編組來好不好好 謝謝"},{"start":551.561,"end":551.749,"text":"﹗"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":906,"blocks":[["呂委員玉玲：（12時1分）謝謝主席，請經濟部的郭部長、台電公司的曾董事長。"],["主席：經濟部郭部長、台電曾董事長。"],["郭部長智輝：委員好。"],["呂委員玉玲：部長，我們賴清德總統曾經說要大力的來發展AI（人工智慧），讓我們臺灣可以在半導體產業跟AI產業立足於全世界成為一個科技島！當然，部長也應該知道，不管是我們的半導體還是AI產業都非常需要大量的電，但我們臺灣一直是缺電的情形。雖然我們執政的政府一直講沒有缺電，但是停電跟跳電事件還是頻頻發生，尤其是天下雜誌的民調特別提到有七成的民眾很擔心臺灣有缺電的風險，另外有七成的民眾更是支持核電跟再生能源可以同步一起來發展。尤其是在11月13號，賴清德總統特別在跟我們的工業總會的談話中表示說，只要新的能源能夠發展順利到一定的程度，還有安全的來處理核廢料問題的話，可以納入考慮。所以部長，這是不是就代表說我們賴總統對於核電的立場可以有所調整，而且還支持核電跟再生能源，可以有社會共識一起來執行？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我想您剛才在說這個七成的人擔心我們的電不夠，我不知道這個是誰說的啦！不過，我在這裡鄭重的跟你報告……"],["呂委員玉玲：我剛剛講了，就是那個雜誌民調出來的結果。"],["郭部長智輝：雜誌民調的對象，不知道是不是……"],["呂委員玉玲：天下雜誌。那你一定要參考，你不要忽略到我們社會大眾的觀感，好不好？"],["郭部長智輝：是、是，謝謝委員，這個部分我們當然參考啦！那我要跟您報告的是說我們沒有缺電。"],["呂委員玉玲：沒有缺電，但還是有頻繁的跳電跟停電的問題嘛，你們一再的保證，又說明、澄清，但是民眾還是擔心的。"],["郭部長智輝：對，這個是……"],["呂委員玉玲：所以現在我們要讓臺灣成為科技島，電的部分就要穩定供電，所以我現在要問部長的問題就是說，在我們桃園大潭電廠7號機跟9號機一再的延宕，雖然說這個9號機已經點火測試了，5月測試，8月份也已經併網了，但是現在還沒有拿到能源局的執照，還沒有辦法供電，所以我們請了民間電廠──麥寮電廠，它本來是在6月份的時候就要除役，現在要延到明年的10月份才會除役。這就是因為要補我們缺電的這個缺口嘛，是不是？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，不是。"],["呂委員玉玲：不是的話，那為什麼它要延後除役呢？"],["郭部長智輝：你是說麥寮那個？"],["呂委員玉玲：是。"],["郭部長智輝：因為麥寮那個不是台電的公司。"],["呂委員玉玲：它是民營的啊！"],["郭部長智輝：它是民營的，民營的……"],["呂委員玉玲：除役的時間到了，今年的6月啊！"],["郭部長智輝：民營的跟台電之間有契約，時間雖然到了，但是容量沒有到，供電的容量沒有到。"],["呂委員玉玲：你們有一套的說法啦！那好，我們回來講，大潭的7號機跟9號機為什麼一直延後呢？延後2次囉！"],["郭部長智輝：我是不是請他們來說明？"],["呂委員玉玲：好，王總經理。"],["王總經理耀庭：報告委員，之前7號機、9號機延後，當然是因為COVID-19的關係，還有就是俄烏戰爭，造成缺工等等這些因素，但是目前這2部機已經都在測試中，所以它平常都會有……"],["呂委員玉玲：9號機……"],["王總經理耀庭：7號機是快……"],["呂委員玉玲：9號機已經在5月份測試了，8月份併網，現在是7號機還沒有點火測試。"],["王總經理耀庭：是。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以我們擔心的是萬一測試不成功的話，是不是又會有缺電的問題？"],["王總經理耀庭：不會，因為7號機目前測試的程序都是一步一步、很紮實在進行。"],["呂委員玉玲：目前還沒測試，什麼時候測試？"],["王總經理耀庭：我們都會做局部的一個小的部分。"],["呂委員玉玲：他跟你講了，7號機還沒有測試欸！"],["王總經理耀庭：9號機……"],["呂委員玉玲：9號機是測試了，還沒發執照。"],["王總經理耀庭：就是在發電……"],["呂委員玉玲：是，我現在是問你7號機呢？"],["王總經理耀庭：7號機12月初就會點火，點火就是……"],["呂委員玉玲：測試要成功啊，失敗的話就沒辦法併網。"],["王總經理耀庭：對，但是前面測試一步一步的朝向目標前進。"],["呂委員玉玲：好，所以請部長跟董事長、總經理，我們要加強控管整個期程，不要讓民眾有這個缺電的恐懼，好不好？"],["郭部長智輝：是的。"],["呂委員玉玲：好。謝謝，台電的先請回。","我們講完電，當然要講水，有關自來水的問題，一直有漏水跟管線老舊、塑膠管線要汰舊換新的問題，尤其是我們李董事長非常認真的在汰換管線，但是我們把這個數據調出來看了之後，你看漏水的問題，從各個區來看，總共有12個區，還有加上屏東這些區域，我們112年的漏水率平均都在12%，但是你看到第一區，第一區的話是基隆區，漏水率是20%，屏東區的漏水率還是19%，所以這些問題為什麼沒辦法解決呢？你們有在汰換，從102年到112年，這10年的汰換已經在做了，做到現在10年了，這個汰換率還是沒有完成。"],["李董事長嘉榮：跟委員報告，因為第一區是我們基隆地區，那邊的地形都是丘陵地，所以我們加壓站很多，那加壓供水管線就比較容易有破損。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以要加強管控這個加壓供水，雖然說我們這個老舊管線的汰換是有逐年汰換，但是我看到這個數據裡面，漏水率還是有增加的部分，是不是？你看到在102年到110年的這個情形。"],["李董事長嘉榮：是，我們漏水率是每個區每個單位都有逐漸在減少。"],["呂委員玉玲：對，所以我們的漏水率，並不是年限的問題，有些是地震或者氣候、環境的關係，所以我們希望有漏水、有爆管的就直接換新管，好不好？不要一直補，一直補都沒有用，你補了之後，一加壓下去的話，它就會爆管了。"],["李董事長嘉榮：對，這個本來在我們的降漏計畫裡面……"],["呂委員玉玲：董事長，尤其是塑膠管部分，我們塑膠管的話也是逐年汰換，但是我們看到逐年汰換塑膠管的情形也是一樣，尤其是你看我們的使用年限，使用年限本來102年是36%的話，到了現在（112年）46%，這個反而增加了，反而增加了，這是很奇怪的問題吧！"],["李董事長嘉榮：跟委員報告，因為我們那個塑膠管使用年限大概是20年……"],["呂委員玉玲：可是我們逐年都在換啊！這必須要逐年減少，所以這個是不是預算不足？若預算不足的話，你就多編一些預算啊！"],["李董事長嘉榮：對，我們塑膠管的部分是列為優先來汰換。"],["呂委員玉玲：現在它的使用年限是20年還是30年要換管？"],["李董事長嘉榮：我們塑膠管是20年。"],["呂委員玉玲：可是很多地方超過30年沒換管，我相信自來水公司都有數據資料，所以可以朝這方面來換管。因為20年以上的話幾乎還是塑膠管，你塑膠管停電再來電的時候，因為熱漲冷縮，它就會爆管，而且塑膠管裡面有很多的污穢的雜質在，是不是？所以要優先，好不好？這是使用年限的問題。"],["李董事長嘉榮：好。"],["呂委員玉玲：第二個問題就是這個塑膠管的問題，塑膠管我們有看到啦，雖然你逐年汰換是有減少部分，但是我們希望這個一定要按時間來，尤其我要提的是很多沒有使用自來水的社區，他們申請的時候，請董事長優先讓他們換，因為一個社區都是兩、三百戶，他們用黃泥水在飲用，因為現在的井水都被污染了，所以董事長，尤其是社區的管線要申請自來水，請你們優先給他們使用，好不好？因為是大的社區，可不可以？那我們要加強這個汰舊換新的管線，是不是？若預算不足，請你編足來，好不好？"],["李董事長嘉榮：好，謝謝，我們來努力。"],["主席：謝謝呂玉玲委員，還有部長，請回座。","我們現在休息，12點50分繼續開會。","休息（12時11分）","繼續開會（12時50分）"],["主席：我們現在繼續開會。","下一位質詢請楊瓊瓔委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":66,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-15","speakers":["邱志偉","陳亭妃","謝衣鳯","邱議瑩","林岱樺","賴瑞隆","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","張嘉郡","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","蔡易餘","陳超明","羅智強","賴士葆","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","呂玉玲","楊瓊瓔","陳培瑜","洪孟楷","陳冠廷","葉元之","林德福"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-20"],"gazette_id":"11310301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310301_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查 114 年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於經濟部主管：台灣電力股份有限公\n司、台灣自來水股份有限公司（詢答）","agenda_id":"11310301_00001"}}}