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584.484, \"end\": 584.604, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 584.604, \"end\": 584.644, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 584.644, \"end\": 584.664, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 584.664, \"end\": 584.744, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 584.744, \"end\": 584.764, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"韓\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"瑜\", \"start\": 608.226, \"end\": 608.246, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,876 --> 00:00:33,474\n當然我們都不希望對岸在國際上面打壓我們的外交空間但是我覺得我們外交部、我們政府也不能夠事事都在掩飾因為只有面對真相、面對事實才能夠對症下藥找到我們的外交空間維持兩岸和平那我想請教一下外交部對於新加坡公開講說確實他們有主張反對台灣台獨這個事情外交部現在看法是怎樣?\n\n2\n00:00:36,219 --> 00:01:03,872\n我們對這個案子我們做一個詳細的比較中國所發出來的訊息是說新加坡是支持一個中國的原則那麼我們為了這個我們跟新加坡去了解新加坡說他們是支持一個中國的政策這兩個有明顯的不同所以沒有講到黃巡財反對台獨這件事情\n\n3\n00:01:06,915 --> 00:01:27,836\n呃...他是反對台獨對嘛,所以意思是什麼?你們非常急著...不是,市長等一下等一下你們非常急著要去幫人家澄清嘛,所以...所以讓人家公開的再一次的呼籲反對台獨這件事情我不太知道說外交部為什麼要這麼急著做這件事情啦你們的動機是什麼?\n\n4\n00:01:28,696 --> 00:01:51,191\n我們不要澄清這個事情你們就是澄清嘛所以才會今天媒體都是說外交部被打臉嘛我們是找出來中國用各種的方法把不當的言詞塞在別人的嘴巴裡實際上我今天看媒體的報導是講說新加坡再次表示說反對台獨外交部也理解\n\n5\n00:01:52,245 --> 00:02:10,717\n所以這事情已經被操作成一個負面的事情了那外交部你們在做這種事情有這麼粗糙喔我以為外交部的人員都經歷了很豐厚的外交訓練啊怎麼會這麼粗糙讓這樣的話題本來一天就過去了然後可以最後好像搞得裡外不是人喔\n\n6\n00:02:11,357 --> 00:02:31,015\n然後再來習近平到底在拜習會的時候有沒有提到賴清德這三個字我們的政府呢高層都說沒有嘛我們的國安局當時國安局局長講說他就比對了白宮的新聞稿說完全沒有講到賴清德我問一下次長請問一下白宮的新聞稿是逐字稿嗎是拜習會的逐字稿嗎\n\n7\n00:02:32,077 --> 00:02:47,372\n我們對這個國安單位所提出來的解釋請問一下我再問你嘛白宮的新聞稿是不是拜習會談話的逐字稿是不是是新聞稿還是逐字稿你們外交部都不會去看人家的新聞稿\n\n8\n00:02:50,472 --> 00:03:06,787\n兩邊在會後發的新聞聲明我們都有看我的問題很簡單請問一下白宮的新聞稿是不是拜習會的逐字稿並不是逐字稿嘛那請教一下所以我們的國安局長怎麼可以根據不是逐字稿的新聞稿因為新聞稿只有載入他們講話的部分嘛\n\n9\n00:03:08,268 --> 00:03:34,885\n就可以直接去講說習近平在拜習會就是沒有談到賴清德為什麼可以這樣推論呢這是因為過去這一段時間我們看到兩邊對話之後發出來的雙方發出來的新聞稿對嘛但是不是逐字稿嘛就像我們今天我們兩個對話逐字可能最後發個新聞稿可是我們不會把我們所有的對話發出去嘛所以我們怎麼可以講說新聞稿沒看到就一定沒有哇賽我們的外交體系國安體系邏輯是這樣喔\n\n10\n00:03:37,006 --> 00:04:06,116\n新聞稿可以把它當組織稿所以所以到底市長所以習近平到底有沒有講到賴清德總統有沒有到底有沒有各方面的查證是沒有的沒有齁那因為所以你們講說因為那個是大陸官媒的報導嘛這又在搞認知作戰嘛齁那我給大家看一下齁這是紐約時報啦前天的報導啦裡面就有講啊你可以看一下啊它裡面就有提到啊\n\n11\n00:04:07,298 --> 00:04:18,646\n他說習近平特別講說美國如果要維持地區和平的話就必須要公開反對台獨他也罕見的提到台灣總統賴清德這紐約時報的報導所以這紐約時報被認知作戰了市長這是他跟習近平的談話嗎這紐約時報的報導在講拜習會的啊罕見的提到賴清德不然習近平是跟誰談話\n\n12\n00:04:41,023 --> 00:04:57,092\n我覺得如果我們的外交單位我們不是說習近平他提到賴清德是我們支持他這樣的不是而是說如果我們今天事實都要掩蓋的話我們怎麼對症下藥啊而且我真的不太懂你們那麼在意這個事情幹什麼習近平提到賴清德總統然後說賴清德的態度那你就反駁他就好啦\n\n13\n00:05:03,885 --> 00:05:09,847\n反駁習近平啊不是我們現在賴清德總統已經主張中華民國113年了他已經是中華民國派了習近平不要亂講話反駁他就好了嘛你去講說他沒說幹嘛你又不是他所以你們然後就把他搞成是認知作戰我真不懂欸這樣的一個操作的用意意義在哪裡你看美國的報導就有嘛你一直去否認這個事情\n\n14\n00:05:29,937 --> 00:05:40,255\n我們是要突顯我們是要突顯你務實一點好不好務實一點啦每天在那邊講認知作戰認知作戰台灣人民都聽到都沒有都覺得到底在幹什麼啊再請教一下\n\n15\n00:05:44,806 --> 00:06:03,241\n昨天我們的行政院長那個卓榮泰講說不能講以美論因為所謂的理念相近的國家要互相信賴沒有人要說以美論但是我們不能夠評估一下川普上任之後對台灣可能造成衝擊嗎這算不算以美論這是不是以美論市長你覺得是以美論嗎\n\n16\n00:06:05,317 --> 00:06:21,945\n這個是很評估嘛評估嘛對嘛所以為什麼把所有的評估都要把它打成是以美論呢我也不懂啊現在川普我問一下次長欸今天經濟部也有人來嘛請教一下川普上任之後有沒有可能提高台灣的台灣的關稅有沒有可能有沒有可能有沒有可能外交部次長你可以回答啊因為你們你們對美你們也有對美關係啊你覺得有沒有可能\n\n17\n00:06:31,923 --> 00:06:40,829\n按照特朗普競選的承諾這個是有可能有可能嘛那經濟部次長程度多少程度多少那你們覺得程度多少\n\n18\n00:06:42,352 --> 00:07:06,292\n有沒有可能很高有沒有可能我跟委員報告一下如果關稅太高的他其實傷害了他本國的通貨膨脹也會發生所以這一點所以你覺得你的評估是不會很高我不是這樣講他如果調得太高他也會傷到自己是但是但是他還是會調高對我們也會有影響那這算不算以美論算不算市長覺得算以美論嗎\n\n19\n00:07:11,909 --> 00:07:28,706\n我們只是很務實的討論國家未來可能遇到的困境嘛這算以美論嗎不是吧不是說只要討論美國對我們可能造成傷害都是以美論吧那請教一下我們台積電有沒有可能台積電A16技術製程會在美國有沒有可能你們有評估過嗎經營部\n\n20\n00:07:34,810 --> 00:07:35,491\n你覺得這個東西沒有影響?\n\n21\n00:08:01,131 --> 00:08:17,006\n他要量產要比台灣晚3年而且他研發中心在台灣所以我們認為台灣的技術會維持領先的地位所以次長你的評估是說雖然A16技術製程有可能會在美國但是因為我們會比他早量產3年所以不會受到影響\n\n22\n00:08:18,118 --> 00:08:40,032\n這是進一步的評估嗎會正面的影響還會有正面的影響所以美國所以台積電最好那種高先進的製程就多去一點還會有正面的影響不是這第一個台積電的商業決策而且台積電做過台積電本身也做過整密的評估我們以台灣的利益為最高指導原則台積電做過評估為什麼張忠謀在2022年會說在美國投資是貴且浪費\n\n23\n00:08:43,003 --> 00:09:06,605\n張創辦人的這個解釋我沒有辦法替他回答但你講的你說台積電做過評估但他們創辦人公開講說在美投資貴且浪費有一個高盛高盛大家知道嗎亞太地區首期經濟學家他說除了北京之外台灣、韓國、越南都可能會籠罩在美國提高我們關稅的陰影當中這是高盛講的\n\n24\n00:09:08,114 --> 00:09:36,645\n所以事實上就是會嘛事實上是全世界都會嘛所以要做好因應嘛不是說大家討論因應之道就是以美論嘛最後我問外交部次長一個問題請問一下現在慶賀團決定派誰代表了嗎還沒有請問一下四年前那時候是四年前八年前當時是什麼時間點會決定派誰你在外交部服務很長一段時間嘛可是這個你要確實沒關係我問一下四年前那時候是什麼決定的\n\n25\n00:09:38,299 --> 00:09:44,764\n我必須看我四年前八年前我們是什麼時間我沒有辦法馬上回答您這個問題再確認一下我沒有辦法馬上回答那會不會是立法院長\n\n26\n00:10:08,226 --> 00:10:08,246\n韓國瑜\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5876\t33474\t當然我們都不希望對岸在國際上面打壓我們的外交空間但是我覺得我們外交部、我們政府也不能夠事事都在掩飾因為只有面對真相、面對事實才能夠對症下藥找到我們的外交空間維持兩岸和平那我想請教一下外交部對於新加坡公開講說確實他們有主張反對台灣台獨這個事情外交部現在看法是怎樣?\n36219\t63872\t我們對這個案子我們做一個詳細的比較中國所發出來的訊息是說新加坡是支持一個中國的原則那麼我們為了這個我們跟新加坡去了解新加坡說他們是支持一個中國的政策這兩個有明顯的不同所以沒有講到黃巡財反對台獨這件事情\n66915\t87836\t呃...他是反對台獨對嘛,所以意思是什麼?你們非常急著...不是,市長等一下等一下你們非常急著要去幫人家澄清嘛,所以...所以讓人家公開的再一次的呼籲反對台獨這件事情我不太知道說外交部為什麼要這麼急著做這件事情啦你們的動機是什麼?\n88696\t111191\t我們不要澄清這個事情你們就是澄清嘛所以才會今天媒體都是說外交部被打臉嘛我們是找出來中國用各種的方法把不當的言詞塞在別人的嘴巴裡實際上我今天看媒體的報導是講說新加坡再次表示說反對台獨外交部也理解\n112245\t130717\t所以這事情已經被操作成一個負面的事情了那外交部你們在做這種事情有這麼粗糙喔我以為外交部的人員都經歷了很豐厚的外交訓練啊怎麼會這麼粗糙讓這樣的話題本來一天就過去了然後可以最後好像搞得裡外不是人喔\n131357\t151015\t然後再來習近平到底在拜習會的時候有沒有提到賴清德這三個字我們的政府呢高層都說沒有嘛我們的國安局當時國安局局長講說他就比對了白宮的新聞稿說完全沒有講到賴清德我問一下次長請問一下白宮的新聞稿是逐字稿嗎是拜習會的逐字稿嗎\n152077\t167372\t我們對這個國安單位所提出來的解釋請問一下我再問你嘛白宮的新聞稿是不是拜習會談話的逐字稿是不是是新聞稿還是逐字稿你們外交部都不會去看人家的新聞稿\n170472\t186787\t兩邊在會後發的新聞聲明我們都有看我的問題很簡單請問一下白宮的新聞稿是不是拜習會的逐字稿並不是逐字稿嘛那請教一下所以我們的國安局長怎麼可以根據不是逐字稿的新聞稿因為新聞稿只有載入他們講話的部分嘛\n188268\t214885\t就可以直接去講說習近平在拜習會就是沒有談到賴清德為什麼可以這樣推論呢這是因為過去這一段時間我們看到兩邊對話之後發出來的雙方發出來的新聞稿對嘛但是不是逐字稿嘛就像我們今天我們兩個對話逐字可能最後發個新聞稿可是我們不會把我們所有的對話發出去嘛所以我們怎麼可以講說新聞稿沒看到就一定沒有哇賽我們的外交體系國安體系邏輯是這樣喔\n217006\t246116\t新聞稿可以把它當組織稿所以所以到底市長所以習近平到底有沒有講到賴清德總統有沒有到底有沒有各方面的查證是沒有的沒有齁那因為所以你們講說因為那個是大陸官媒的報導嘛這又在搞認知作戰嘛齁那我給大家看一下齁這是紐約時報啦前天的報導啦裡面就有講啊你可以看一下啊它裡面就有提到啊\n247298\t258646\t他說習近平特別講說美國如果要維持地區和平的話就必須要公開反對台獨他也罕見的提到台灣總統賴清德這紐約時報的報導所以這紐約時報被認知作戰了市長這是他跟習近平的談話嗎這紐約時報的報導在講拜習會的啊罕見的提到賴清德不然習近平是跟誰談話\n281023\t297092\t我覺得如果我們的外交單位我們不是說習近平他提到賴清德是我們支持他這樣的 不是而是說如果我們今天事實都要掩蓋的話我們怎麼對症下藥啊而且我真的不太懂你們那麼在意這個事情幹什麼習近平提到賴清德總統然後說賴清德的態度那你就反駁他就好啦\n303885\t309847\t反駁習近平啊不是我們現在賴清德總統已經主張中華民國113年了他已經是中華民國派了習近平不要亂講話反駁他就好了嘛你去講說他沒說幹嘛你又不是他所以你們然後就把他搞成是認知作戰我真不懂欸這樣的一個操作的用意意義在哪裡你看美國的報導就有嘛你一直去否認這個事情\n329937\t340255\t我們是要突顯我們是要突顯你務實一點好不好務實一點啦每天在那邊講認知作戰認知作戰台灣人民都聽到都沒有都覺得到底在幹什麼啊再請教一下\n344806\t363241\t昨天我們的行政院長那個卓榮泰講說不能講以美論因為所謂的理念相近的國家要互相信賴沒有人要說以美論但是我們不能夠評估一下川普上任之後對台灣可能造成衝擊嗎這算不算以美論這是不是以美論市長你覺得是以美論嗎\n365317\t381945\t這個是很 評估嘛 評估嘛 對嘛 所以為什麼把所有的評估都要把它打成是以美論呢 我也不懂啊 現在川普 我問一下次長 欸今天經濟部也有人來嘛 請教一下川普上任之後有沒有可能提高台灣的 台灣的關稅 有沒有可能 有沒有可能有沒有可能 外交部次長你可以回答啊 因為你們 你們對美 你們也有對美關係啊 你覺得有沒有可能\n391923\t400829\t按照特朗普競選的承諾這個是有可能有可能嘛那經濟部次長程度多少程度多少那你們覺得程度多少\n402352\t426292\t有沒有可能很高有沒有可能我跟委員報告一下如果關稅太高的他其實傷害了他本國的通貨膨脹也會發生所以這一點所以你覺得你的評估是不會很高我不是這樣講他如果調得太高他也會傷到自己是但是但是他還是會調高對我們也會有影響那這算不算以美論算不算市長覺得算以美論嗎\n431909\t448706\t我們只是很務實的討論國家未來可能遇到的困境嘛這算以美論嗎不是吧不是說只要討論美國對我們可能造成傷害都是以美論吧那請教一下我們台積電有沒有可能台積電A16技術製程會在美國有沒有可能你們有評估過嗎經營部\n454810\t455491\t你覺得這個東西沒有影響?\n481131\t497006\t他要量產要比台灣晚3年而且他研發中心在台灣所以我們認為台灣的技術會維持領先的地位所以次長你的評估是說雖然A16技術製程有可能會在美國但是因為我們會比他早量產3年所以不會受到影響\n498118\t520032\t這是進一步的評估嗎會正面的影響還會有正面的影響所以美國所以台積電最好那種高先進的製程就多去一點還會有正面的影響不是這第一個台積電的商業決策而且台積電做過台積電本身也做過整密的評估我們以台灣的利益為最高指導原則台積電做過評估為什麼張忠謀在2022年會說在美國投資是貴且浪費\n523003\t546605\t張創辦人的這個解釋我沒有辦法替他回答但你講的你說台積電做過評估但他們創辦人公開講說在美投資貴且浪費有一個高盛高盛大家知道嗎亞太地區首期經濟學家他說除了北京之外台灣、韓國、越南都可能會籠罩在美國提高我們關稅的陰影當中這是高盛講的\n548114\t576645\t所以事實上就是會嘛事實上是全世界都會嘛所以要做好因應嘛不是說大家討論因應之道就是以美論嘛最後我問外交部次長一個問題請問一下現在慶賀團決定派誰代表了嗎還沒有請問一下四年前那時候是四年前八年前當時是什麼時間點會決定派誰你在外交部服務很長一段時間嘛可是這個你要確實沒關係我問一下四年前那時候是什麼決定的\n578299\t584764\t我必須看我四年前八年前我們是什麼時間我沒有辦法馬上回答您這個問題再確認一下我沒有辦法馬上回答那會不會是立法院長\n608226\t608246\t韓國瑜\n","txt":"當然我們都不希望對岸在國際上面打壓我們的外交空間但是我覺得我們外交部、我們政府也不能夠事事都在掩飾因為只有面對真相、面對事實才能夠對症下藥找到我們的外交空間維持兩岸和平那我想請教一下外交部對於新加坡公開講說確實他們有主張反對台灣台獨這個事情外交部現在看法是怎樣?\n我們對這個案子我們做一個詳細的比較中國所發出來的訊息是說新加坡是支持一個中國的原則那麼我們為了這個我們跟新加坡去了解新加坡說他們是支持一個中國的政策這兩個有明顯的不同所以沒有講到黃巡財反對台獨這件事情\n呃...他是反對台獨對嘛,所以意思是什麼?你們非常急著...不是,市長等一下等一下你們非常急著要去幫人家澄清嘛,所以...所以讓人家公開的再一次的呼籲反對台獨這件事情我不太知道說外交部為什麼要這麼急著做這件事情啦你們的動機是什麼?\n我們不要澄清這個事情你們就是澄清嘛所以才會今天媒體都是說外交部被打臉嘛我們是找出來中國用各種的方法把不當的言詞塞在別人的嘴巴裡實際上我今天看媒體的報導是講說新加坡再次表示說反對台獨外交部也理解\n所以這事情已經被操作成一個負面的事情了那外交部你們在做這種事情有這麼粗糙喔我以為外交部的人員都經歷了很豐厚的外交訓練啊怎麼會這麼粗糙讓這樣的話題本來一天就過去了然後可以最後好像搞得裡外不是人喔\n然後再來習近平到底在拜習會的時候有沒有提到賴清德這三個字我們的政府呢高層都說沒有嘛我們的國安局當時國安局局長講說他就比對了白宮的新聞稿說完全沒有講到賴清德我問一下次長請問一下白宮的新聞稿是逐字稿嗎是拜習會的逐字稿嗎\n我們對這個國安單位所提出來的解釋請問一下我再問你嘛白宮的新聞稿是不是拜習會談話的逐字稿是不是是新聞稿還是逐字稿你們外交部都不會去看人家的新聞稿\n兩邊在會後發的新聞聲明我們都有看我的問題很簡單請問一下白宮的新聞稿是不是拜習會的逐字稿並不是逐字稿嘛那請教一下所以我們的國安局長怎麼可以根據不是逐字稿的新聞稿因為新聞稿只有載入他們講話的部分嘛\n就可以直接去講說習近平在拜習會就是沒有談到賴清德為什麼可以這樣推論呢這是因為過去這一段時間我們看到兩邊對話之後發出來的雙方發出來的新聞稿對嘛但是不是逐字稿嘛就像我們今天我們兩個對話逐字可能最後發個新聞稿可是我們不會把我們所有的對話發出去嘛所以我們怎麼可以講說新聞稿沒看到就一定沒有哇賽我們的外交體系國安體系邏輯是這樣喔\n新聞稿可以把它當組織稿所以所以到底市長所以習近平到底有沒有講到賴清德總統有沒有到底有沒有各方面的查證是沒有的沒有齁那因為所以你們講說因為那個是大陸官媒的報導嘛這又在搞認知作戰嘛齁那我給大家看一下齁這是紐約時報啦前天的報導啦裡面就有講啊你可以看一下啊它裡面就有提到啊\n他說習近平特別講說美國如果要維持地區和平的話就必須要公開反對台獨他也罕見的提到台灣總統賴清德這紐約時報的報導所以這紐約時報被認知作戰了市長這是他跟習近平的談話嗎這紐約時報的報導在講拜習會的啊罕見的提到賴清德不然習近平是跟誰談話\n我覺得如果我們的外交單位我們不是說習近平他提到賴清德是我們支持他這樣的 不是而是說如果我們今天事實都要掩蓋的話我們怎麼對症下藥啊而且我真的不太懂你們那麼在意這個事情幹什麼習近平提到賴清德總統然後說賴清德的態度那你就反駁他就好啦\n反駁習近平啊不是我們現在賴清德總統已經主張中華民國113年了他已經是中華民國派了習近平不要亂講話反駁他就好了嘛你去講說他沒說幹嘛你又不是他所以你們然後就把他搞成是認知作戰我真不懂欸這樣的一個操作的用意意義在哪裡你看美國的報導就有嘛你一直去否認這個事情\n我們是要突顯我們是要突顯你務實一點好不好務實一點啦每天在那邊講認知作戰認知作戰台灣人民都聽到都沒有都覺得到底在幹什麼啊再請教一下\n昨天我們的行政院長那個卓榮泰講說不能講以美論因為所謂的理念相近的國家要互相信賴沒有人要說以美論但是我們不能夠評估一下川普上任之後對台灣可能造成衝擊嗎這算不算以美論這是不是以美論市長你覺得是以美論嗎\n這個是很 評估嘛 評估嘛 對嘛 所以為什麼把所有的評估都要把它打成是以美論呢 我也不懂啊 現在川普 我問一下次長 欸今天經濟部也有人來嘛 請教一下川普上任之後有沒有可能提高台灣的 台灣的關稅 有沒有可能 有沒有可能有沒有可能 外交部次長你可以回答啊 因為你們 你們對美 你們也有對美關係啊 你覺得有沒有可能\n按照特朗普競選的承諾這個是有可能有可能嘛那經濟部次長程度多少程度多少那你們覺得程度多少\n有沒有可能很高有沒有可能我跟委員報告一下如果關稅太高的他其實傷害了他本國的通貨膨脹也會發生所以這一點所以你覺得你的評估是不會很高我不是這樣講他如果調得太高他也會傷到自己是但是但是他還是會調高對我們也會有影響那這算不算以美論算不算市長覺得算以美論嗎\n我們只是很務實的討論國家未來可能遇到的困境嘛這算以美論嗎不是吧不是說只要討論美國對我們可能造成傷害都是以美論吧那請教一下我們台積電有沒有可能台積電A16技術製程會在美國有沒有可能你們有評估過嗎經營部\n你覺得這個東西沒有影響?\n他要量產要比台灣晚3年而且他研發中心在台灣所以我們認為台灣的技術會維持領先的地位所以次長你的評估是說雖然A16技術製程有可能會在美國但是因為我們會比他早量產3年所以不會受到影響\n這是進一步的評估嗎會正面的影響還會有正面的影響所以美國所以台積電最好那種高先進的製程就多去一點還會有正面的影響不是這第一個台積電的商業決策而且台積電做過台積電本身也做過整密的評估我們以台灣的利益為最高指導原則台積電做過評估為什麼張忠謀在2022年會說在美國投資是貴且浪費\n張創辦人的這個解釋我沒有辦法替他回答但你講的你說台積電做過評估但他們創辦人公開講說在美投資貴且浪費有一個高盛高盛大家知道嗎亞太地區首期經濟學家他說除了北京之外台灣、韓國、越南都可能會籠罩在美國提高我們關稅的陰影當中這是高盛講的\n所以事實上就是會嘛事實上是全世界都會嘛所以要做好因應嘛不是說大家討論因應之道就是以美論嘛最後我問外交部次長一個問題請問一下現在慶賀團決定派誰代表了嗎還沒有請問一下四年前那時候是四年前八年前當時是什麼時間點會決定派誰你在外交部服務很長一段時間嘛可是這個你要確實沒關係我問一下四年前那時候是什麼決定的\n我必須看我四年前八年前我們是什麼時間我沒有辦法馬上回答您這個問題再確認一下我沒有辦法馬上回答那會不會是立法院長\n韓國瑜\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.876 --> 00:33.474\n當然我們都不希望對岸在國際上面打壓我們的外交空間但是我覺得我們外交部、我們政府也不能夠事事都在掩飾因為只有面對真相、面對事實才能夠對症下藥找到我們的外交空間維持兩岸和平那我想請教一下外交部對於新加坡公開講說確實他們有主張反對台灣台獨這個事情外交部現在看法是怎樣?\n\n00:36.219 --> 01:03.872\n我們對這個案子我們做一個詳細的比較中國所發出來的訊息是說新加坡是支持一個中國的原則那麼我們為了這個我們跟新加坡去了解新加坡說他們是支持一個中國的政策這兩個有明顯的不同所以沒有講到黃巡財反對台獨這件事情\n\n01:06.915 --> 01:27.836\n呃...他是反對台獨對嘛,所以意思是什麼?你們非常急著...不是,市長等一下等一下你們非常急著要去幫人家澄清嘛,所以...所以讓人家公開的再一次的呼籲反對台獨這件事情我不太知道說外交部為什麼要這麼急著做這件事情啦你們的動機是什麼?\n\n01:28.696 --> 01:51.191\n我們不要澄清這個事情你們就是澄清嘛所以才會今天媒體都是說外交部被打臉嘛我們是找出來中國用各種的方法把不當的言詞塞在別人的嘴巴裡實際上我今天看媒體的報導是講說新加坡再次表示說反對台獨外交部也理解\n\n01:52.245 --> 02:10.717\n所以這事情已經被操作成一個負面的事情了那外交部你們在做這種事情有這麼粗糙喔我以為外交部的人員都經歷了很豐厚的外交訓練啊怎麼會這麼粗糙讓這樣的話題本來一天就過去了然後可以最後好像搞得裡外不是人喔\n\n02:11.357 --> 02:31.015\n然後再來習近平到底在拜習會的時候有沒有提到賴清德這三個字我們的政府呢高層都說沒有嘛我們的國安局當時國安局局長講說他就比對了白宮的新聞稿說完全沒有講到賴清德我問一下次長請問一下白宮的新聞稿是逐字稿嗎是拜習會的逐字稿嗎\n\n02:32.077 --> 02:47.372\n我們對這個國安單位所提出來的解釋請問一下我再問你嘛白宮的新聞稿是不是拜習會談話的逐字稿是不是是新聞稿還是逐字稿你們外交部都不會去看人家的新聞稿\n\n02:50.472 --> 03:06.787\n兩邊在會後發的新聞聲明我們都有看我的問題很簡單請問一下白宮的新聞稿是不是拜習會的逐字稿並不是逐字稿嘛那請教一下所以我們的國安局長怎麼可以根據不是逐字稿的新聞稿因為新聞稿只有載入他們講話的部分嘛\n\n03:08.268 --> 03:34.885\n就可以直接去講說習近平在拜習會就是沒有談到賴清德為什麼可以這樣推論呢這是因為過去這一段時間我們看到兩邊對話之後發出來的雙方發出來的新聞稿對嘛但是不是逐字稿嘛就像我們今天我們兩個對話逐字可能最後發個新聞稿可是我們不會把我們所有的對話發出去嘛所以我們怎麼可以講說新聞稿沒看到就一定沒有哇賽我們的外交體系國安體系邏輯是這樣喔\n\n03:37.006 --> 04:06.116\n新聞稿可以把它當組織稿所以所以到底市長所以習近平到底有沒有講到賴清德總統有沒有到底有沒有各方面的查證是沒有的沒有齁那因為所以你們講說因為那個是大陸官媒的報導嘛這又在搞認知作戰嘛齁那我給大家看一下齁這是紐約時報啦前天的報導啦裡面就有講啊你可以看一下啊它裡面就有提到啊\n\n04:07.298 --> 04:18.646\n他說習近平特別講說美國如果要維持地區和平的話就必須要公開反對台獨他也罕見的提到台灣總統賴清德這紐約時報的報導所以這紐約時報被認知作戰了市長這是他跟習近平的談話嗎這紐約時報的報導在講拜習會的啊罕見的提到賴清德不然習近平是跟誰談話\n\n04:41.023 --> 04:57.092\n我覺得如果我們的外交單位我們不是說習近平他提到賴清德是我們支持他這樣的不是而是說如果我們今天事實都要掩蓋的話我們怎麼對症下藥啊而且我真的不太懂你們那麼在意這個事情幹什麼習近平提到賴清德總統然後說賴清德的態度那你就反駁他就好啦\n\n05:03.885 --> 05:09.847\n反駁習近平啊不是我們現在賴清德總統已經主張中華民國113年了他已經是中華民國派了習近平不要亂講話反駁他就好了嘛你去講說他沒說幹嘛你又不是他所以你們然後就把他搞成是認知作戰我真不懂欸這樣的一個操作的用意意義在哪裡你看美國的報導就有嘛你一直去否認這個事情\n\n05:29.937 --> 05:40.255\n我們是要突顯我們是要突顯你務實一點好不好務實一點啦每天在那邊講認知作戰認知作戰台灣人民都聽到都沒有都覺得到底在幹什麼啊再請教一下\n\n05:44.806 --> 06:03.241\n昨天我們的行政院長那個卓榮泰講說不能講以美論因為所謂的理念相近的國家要互相信賴沒有人要說以美論但是我們不能夠評估一下川普上任之後對台灣可能造成衝擊嗎這算不算以美論這是不是以美論市長你覺得是以美論嗎\n\n06:05.317 --> 06:21.945\n這個是很評估嘛評估嘛對嘛所以為什麼把所有的評估都要把它打成是以美論呢我也不懂啊現在川普我問一下次長欸今天經濟部也有人來嘛請教一下川普上任之後有沒有可能提高台灣的台灣的關稅有沒有可能有沒有可能有沒有可能外交部次長你可以回答啊因為你們你們對美你們也有對美關係啊你覺得有沒有可能\n\n06:31.923 --> 06:40.829\n按照特朗普競選的承諾這個是有可能有可能嘛那經濟部次長程度多少程度多少那你們覺得程度多少\n\n06:42.352 --> 07:06.292\n有沒有可能很高有沒有可能我跟委員報告一下如果關稅太高的他其實傷害了他本國的通貨膨脹也會發生所以這一點所以你覺得你的評估是不會很高我不是這樣講他如果調得太高他也會傷到自己是但是但是他還是會調高對我們也會有影響那這算不算以美論算不算市長覺得算以美論嗎\n\n07:11.909 --> 07:28.706\n我們只是很務實的討論國家未來可能遇到的困境嘛這算以美論嗎不是吧不是說只要討論美國對我們可能造成傷害都是以美論吧那請教一下我們台積電有沒有可能台積電A16技術製程會在美國有沒有可能你們有評估過嗎經營部\n\n07:34.810 --> 07:35.491\n你覺得這個東西沒有影響?\n\n08:01.131 --> 08:17.006\n他要量產要比台灣晚3年而且他研發中心在台灣所以我們認為台灣的技術會維持領先的地位所以次長你的評估是說雖然A16技術製程有可能會在美國但是因為我們會比他早量產3年所以不會受到影響\n\n08:18.118 --> 08:40.032\n這是進一步的評估嗎會正面的影響還會有正面的影響所以美國所以台積電最好那種高先進的製程就多去一點還會有正面的影響不是這第一個台積電的商業決策而且台積電做過台積電本身也做過整密的評估我們以台灣的利益為最高指導原則台積電做過評估為什麼張忠謀在2022年會說在美國投資是貴且浪費\n\n08:43.003 --> 09:06.605\n張創辦人的這個解釋我沒有辦法替他回答但你講的你說台積電做過評估但他們創辦人公開講說在美投資貴且浪費有一個高盛高盛大家知道嗎亞太地區首期經濟學家他說除了北京之外台灣、韓國、越南都可能會籠罩在美國提高我們關稅的陰影當中這是高盛講的\n\n09:08.114 --> 09:36.645\n所以事實上就是會嘛事實上是全世界都會嘛所以要做好因應嘛不是說大家討論因應之道就是以美論嘛最後我問外交部次長一個問題請問一下現在慶賀團決定派誰代表了嗎還沒有請問一下四年前那時候是四年前八年前當時是什麼時間點會決定派誰你在外交部服務很長一段時間嘛可是這個你要確實沒關係我問一下四年前那時候是什麼決定的\n\n09:38.299 --> 09:44.764\n我必須看我四年前八年前我們是什麼時間我沒有辦法馬上回答您這個問題再確認一下我沒有辦法馬上回答那會不會是立法院長\n\n10:08.226 --> 10:08.246\n韓國瑜\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.876,"end":33.474,"text":"當然我們都不希望對岸在國際上面打壓我們的外交空間但是我覺得我們外交部、我們政府也不能夠事事都在掩飾因為只有面對真相、面對事實才能夠對症下藥找到我們的外交空間維持兩岸和平那我想請教一下外交部對於新加坡公開講說確實他們有主張反對台灣台獨這個事情外交部現在看法是怎樣?"},{"start":36.219,"end":63.872,"text":"我們對這個案子我們做一個詳細的比較中國所發出來的訊息是說新加坡是支持一個中國的原則那麼我們為了這個我們跟新加坡去了解新加坡說他們是支持一個中國的政策這兩個有明顯的不同所以沒有講到黃巡財反對台獨這件事情"},{"start":66.915,"end":87.836,"text":"呃...他是反對台獨對嘛,所以意思是什麼?你們非常急著...不是,市長等一下等一下你們非常急著要去幫人家澄清嘛,所以...所以讓人家公開的再一次的呼籲反對台獨這件事情我不太知道說外交部為什麼要這麼急著做這件事情啦你們的動機是什麼?"},{"start":88.696,"end":111.191,"text":"我們不要澄清這個事情你們就是澄清嘛所以才會今天媒體都是說外交部被打臉嘛我們是找出來中國用各種的方法把不當的言詞塞在別人的嘴巴裡實際上我今天看媒體的報導是講說新加坡再次表示說反對台獨外交部也理解"},{"start":112.245,"end":130.717,"text":"所以這事情已經被操作成一個負面的事情了那外交部你們在做這種事情有這麼粗糙喔我以為外交部的人員都經歷了很豐厚的外交訓練啊怎麼會這麼粗糙讓這樣的話題本來一天就過去了然後可以最後好像搞得裡外不是人喔"},{"start":131.357,"end":151.015,"text":"然後再來習近平到底在拜習會的時候有沒有提到賴清德這三個字我們的政府呢高層都說沒有嘛我們的國安局當時國安局局長講說他就比對了白宮的新聞稿說完全沒有講到賴清德我問一下次長請問一下白宮的新聞稿是逐字稿嗎是拜習會的逐字稿嗎"},{"start":152.077,"end":167.372,"text":"我們對這個國安單位所提出來的解釋請問一下我再問你嘛白宮的新聞稿是不是拜習會談話的逐字稿是不是是新聞稿還是逐字稿你們外交部都不會去看人家的新聞稿"},{"start":170.472,"end":186.787,"text":"兩邊在會後發的新聞聲明我們都有看我的問題很簡單請問一下白宮的新聞稿是不是拜習會的逐字稿並不是逐字稿嘛那請教一下所以我們的國安局長怎麼可以根據不是逐字稿的新聞稿因為新聞稿只有載入他們講話的部分嘛"},{"start":188.268,"end":214.885,"text":"就可以直接去講說習近平在拜習會就是沒有談到賴清德為什麼可以這樣推論呢這是因為過去這一段時間我們看到兩邊對話之後發出來的雙方發出來的新聞稿對嘛但是不是逐字稿嘛就像我們今天我們兩個對話逐字可能最後發個新聞稿可是我們不會把我們所有的對話發出去嘛所以我們怎麼可以講說新聞稿沒看到就一定沒有哇賽我們的外交體系國安體系邏輯是這樣喔"},{"start":217.006,"end":246.116,"text":"新聞稿可以把它當組織稿所以所以到底市長所以習近平到底有沒有講到賴清德總統有沒有到底有沒有各方面的查證是沒有的沒有齁那因為所以你們講說因為那個是大陸官媒的報導嘛這又在搞認知作戰嘛齁那我給大家看一下齁這是紐約時報啦前天的報導啦裡面就有講啊你可以看一下啊它裡面就有提到啊"},{"start":247.298,"end":258.646,"text":"他說習近平特別講說美國如果要維持地區和平的話就必須要公開反對台獨他也罕見的提到台灣總統賴清德這紐約時報的報導所以這紐約時報被認知作戰了市長這是他跟習近平的談話嗎這紐約時報的報導在講拜習會的啊罕見的提到賴清德不然習近平是跟誰談話"},{"start":281.023,"end":297.092,"text":"我覺得如果我們的外交單位我們不是說習近平他提到賴清德是我們支持他這樣的 不是而是說如果我們今天事實都要掩蓋的話我們怎麼對症下藥啊而且我真的不太懂你們那麼在意這個事情幹什麼習近平提到賴清德總統然後說賴清德的態度那你就反駁他就好啦"},{"start":303.885,"end":309.847,"text":"反駁習近平啊不是我們現在賴清德總統已經主張中華民國113年了他已經是中華民國派了習近平不要亂講話反駁他就好了嘛你去講說他沒說幹嘛你又不是他所以你們然後就把他搞成是認知作戰我真不懂欸這樣的一個操作的用意意義在哪裡你看美國的報導就有嘛你一直去否認這個事情"},{"start":329.937,"end":340.255,"text":"我們是要突顯我們是要突顯你務實一點好不好務實一點啦每天在那邊講認知作戰認知作戰台灣人民都聽到都沒有都覺得到底在幹什麼啊再請教一下"},{"start":344.806,"end":363.241,"text":"昨天我們的行政院長那個卓榮泰講說不能講以美論因為所謂的理念相近的國家要互相信賴沒有人要說以美論但是我們不能夠評估一下川普上任之後對台灣可能造成衝擊嗎這算不算以美論這是不是以美論市長你覺得是以美論嗎"},{"start":365.317,"end":381.945,"text":"這個是很 評估嘛 評估嘛 對嘛 所以為什麼把所有的評估都要把它打成是以美論呢 我也不懂啊 現在川普 我問一下次長 欸今天經濟部也有人來嘛 請教一下川普上任之後有沒有可能提高台灣的 台灣的關稅 有沒有可能 有沒有可能有沒有可能 外交部次長你可以回答啊 因為你們 你們對美 你們也有對美關係啊 你覺得有沒有可能"},{"start":391.923,"end":400.829,"text":"按照特朗普競選的承諾這個是有可能有可能嘛那經濟部次長程度多少程度多少那你們覺得程度多少"},{"start":402.352,"end":426.292,"text":"有沒有可能很高有沒有可能我跟委員報告一下如果關稅太高的他其實傷害了他本國的通貨膨脹也會發生所以這一點所以你覺得你的評估是不會很高我不是這樣講他如果調得太高他也會傷到自己是但是但是他還是會調高對我們也會有影響那這算不算以美論算不算市長覺得算以美論嗎"},{"start":431.909,"end":448.706,"text":"我們只是很務實的討論國家未來可能遇到的困境嘛這算以美論嗎不是吧不是說只要討論美國對我們可能造成傷害都是以美論吧那請教一下我們台積電有沒有可能台積電A16技術製程會在美國有沒有可能你們有評估過嗎經營部"},{"start":454.81,"end":455.491,"text":"你覺得這個東西沒有影響?"},{"start":481.131,"end":497.006,"text":"他要量產要比台灣晚3年而且他研發中心在台灣所以我們認為台灣的技術會維持領先的地位所以次長你的評估是說雖然A16技術製程有可能會在美國但是因為我們會比他早量產3年所以不會受到影響"},{"start":498.118,"end":520.032,"text":"這是進一步的評估嗎會正面的影響還會有正面的影響所以美國所以台積電最好那種高先進的製程就多去一點還會有正面的影響不是這第一個台積電的商業決策而且台積電做過台積電本身也做過整密的評估我們以台灣的利益為最高指導原則台積電做過評估為什麼張忠謀在2022年會說在美國投資是貴且浪費"},{"start":523.003,"end":546.605,"text":"張創辦人的這個解釋我沒有辦法替他回答但你講的你說台積電做過評估但他們創辦人公開講說在美投資貴且浪費有一個高盛高盛大家知道嗎亞太地區首期經濟學家他說除了北京之外台灣、韓國、越南都可能會籠罩在美國提高我們關稅的陰影當中這是高盛講的"},{"start":548.114,"end":576.645,"text":"所以事實上就是會嘛事實上是全世界都會嘛所以要做好因應嘛不是說大家討論因應之道就是以美論嘛最後我問外交部次長一個問題請問一下現在慶賀團決定派誰代表了嗎還沒有請問一下四年前那時候是四年前八年前當時是什麼時間點會決定派誰你在外交部服務很長一段時間嘛可是這個你要確實沒關係我問一下四年前那時候是什麼決定的"},{"start":578.299,"end":584.764,"text":"我必須看我四年前八年前我們是什麼時間我沒有辦法馬上回答您這個問題再確認一下我沒有辦法馬上回答那會不會是立法院長"},{"start":608.226,"end":608.246,"text":"韓國瑜"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":630,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（12時7分）麻煩請外交部政務次長。"],["主席：請田次長。"],["田次長中光：委員好。"],["葉委員元之：次長好。當然我們都不希望對岸在國際上面打壓我們的外交空間，但是我覺得我們外交部、政府也不能夠事事都在掩飾，因為只有面對真相、面對事實，才能夠對症下藥，找到我們的外交空間，維持兩岸和平。我想請教一下，外交部對於新加坡公開講說，確實他們有主張反對臺灣臺獨這個事情，外交部現在看法是怎樣？"],["田次長中光：我們對這個案子做一個詳細的比較，中國所發出來的訊息是說新加坡是支持一個中國的原則，那麼我們為了這個，我們跟新加坡去了解，新加坡說他們是支持一個中國的政策，這兩個有明顯的不同。"],["葉委員元之：所以沒有講到黃循財反對臺獨這件事情？因為今天媒體都是這樣報導。"],["田次長中光：他是反對臺獨。"],["葉委員元之：對嘛！所以意思是什麼，你們非常急著……","不是，次長，等一下、等一下！你們非常急著要去幫人家澄清嘛！所以讓人家公開地再一次地呼籲反對臺獨這件事情，我不太知道外交部為什麼要這麼急著做這件事情，你們的動機是什麼？"],["田次長中光：報告委員，我們不要澄清這個事情。"],["葉委員元之：你們就是澄清嘛！所以今天媒體都是說外交部被打臉嘛！"],["田次長中光：我們是找出來中國用各種的方法，把不當的言詞塞在別人的嘴巴裡。"],["葉委員元之：實際上，我今天看媒體的報導是講新加坡再次表示反對臺獨，外交部也理解，所以這個事情已經被操作成一個負面的事情了，外交部你們在做這種事情有這麼粗糙，我以為外交部的人員都是經歷了很豐厚的外交訓練，怎麼會這麼粗糙，讓這樣的話題本來一天就過去了，然後最後好像搞得裡外不是人。","然後再來，習近平到底在拜習會的時候有沒有提到賴清德這3個字？我們的政府高層都說沒有嘛！當時國安局局長講他去比對了白宮的新聞稿，說完全沒有講到賴清德，我問一下次長，請問一下白宮的新聞稿是逐字稿嗎？是拜習會的逐字稿嗎？"],["田次長中光：我們對這個國安單位所提出來的解釋……"],["葉委員元之：請問一下，我就問你嘛！白宮的新聞稿是不是拜習會談話的逐字稿，是不是？是新聞稿還是逐字稿？你們外交部都不會去看人家的新聞稿？"],["田次長中光：北美司回答一下好嗎？"],["王司長良玉：兩邊在會後發的新聞聲明我們都有看。"],["葉委員元之：我的問題很簡單，請問一下白宮的新聞稿是不是拜習會的逐字稿？"],["王司長良玉：並不是。"],["葉委員元之：並不是逐字稿嘛！請教一下，所以我們的國安局長怎麼可以根據不是逐字稿的新聞稿――因為新聞稿只有摘錄他們講話的部分嘛――就可以直接去講習近平在拜習會就是沒有談到賴清德，為什麼可以這樣推論？"],["王司長良玉：這是因為過去這一段時間，我們看到兩邊對話之後雙方發出來的新聞稿。"],["葉委員元之：對嘛！但是不是逐字稿嘛！"],["王司長良玉：確實。"],["葉委員元之：就像我們今天我們兩個對話，可能最後發個新聞稿，可是我們不會把我們所有的逐字對話發出去嘛！所以我們怎麼可以講在新聞稿裡面沒看到就一定沒有，哇賽！我們外交體系、國安體系的邏輯是這樣喔！新聞稿可以把它當逐字稿，所以次長，習近平到底有沒有講到賴清德總統？有沒有？到底有沒有？"],["田次長中光：各方面的查證是沒有的。"],["葉委員元之：沒有喔！所以你們講因為那個是大陸官媒的報導嘛！這又在搞認知作戰嘛！我給大家看一下，這是紐約時報在前天的報導啦！裡面就有講啊！你可以看一下，它裡面就有提到啊！它說習近平特別講，美國如果要維持地區和平的話，就必須要公開反對臺獨嘛！它也罕見地提到臺灣總統賴清德，這是紐約時報的報導！所以是紐約時報被認知作戰了？次長。"],["田次長中光：這是他跟習近平的談話嗎？"],["葉委員元之：這是紐約時報的報導啊！在講拜習會的啊！罕見地提到了賴清德，不然習近平是跟誰談話？"],["田次長中光：我們再來了解一下，好不好？"],["葉委員元之：不是，我覺得如果我們的外交單位，我們不是說習近平他提到賴清德，然後我們很支持他這樣，不是，而是如果我們今天連事實都要掩蓋的話，我們怎麼對症下藥啊？而且我真的不太懂，你們那麼在意這個事情幹什麼？習近平提到賴清德總統，然後說賴清德臺獨，你就反駁他就好了，反駁習近平啊！你們要說不是！我們現在賴清德總統已經主張中華民國113年了，他已經是中華民國派了，習近平不要亂講話，反駁他就好了嘛！你去講他沒說幹嘛！你又不是他，然後就把這個搞成是認知作戰，我真的不懂，這樣的一個操作的用意、意義在哪裡？你看美國的報導就有嘛！你還一直去否認這個事情。"],["田次長中光：我們是要凸顯喔！我們是要凸顯……"],["葉委員元之：你務實一點好不好？務實一點啦！每天在那邊講認知作戰、認知作戰，臺灣人民聽了都覺得到底在幹什麼啊！","再請教一下，昨天我們的行政院長卓榮泰說不能講疑美論啦！因為所謂理念相近的國家要互相信賴啦！沒有人要說疑美論，但是我們不能夠評估一下川普上任之後對臺灣可能造成的衝擊嗎？這算不算疑美論？這是不是疑美論？次長，你覺得是疑美論嗎？"],["田次長中光：這個是評估嘛！做評估。"],["葉委員元之：評估嘛！對嘛！所以為什麼把所有的評估都要把它打成是疑美論，我也不懂啊！我問一下次長，今天經濟部也有人來嘛！請教一下，川普上任之後有沒有可能提高臺灣的關稅，有沒有可能？有沒有可能？有沒有可能？外交部次長，你可以回答啊！因為你們也有對美關係啊！你覺得有沒有可能？"],["田次長中光：照川普競選的承諾，這個是有可能。"],["葉委員元之：有可能嘛！那經濟部次長……"],["田次長中光：但是程度多少不知道。"],["葉委員元之：你們覺得程度多少？有沒有可能很高？有沒有可能？"],["田次長中光：我跟委員報告一下，如果關稅太高，其實會傷害了他本國，因為通貨膨脹也會發生，所以這一點……"],["葉委員元之：所以你的評估是不會很高？"],["田次長中光：我不是這樣講，他如果調得太高，也會傷到自己的產業。"],["葉委員元之：是，但是他還是會調高嘛！對我們也會有影響嘛！那這算不算疑美論？算不算？次長覺得算疑美論嗎？我們只是很務實的討論國家未來可能遇到的困境嘛！這算疑美論嗎？不是吧！不是只要討論美國對我們可能造成傷害都是疑美論吧！","請教一下，有沒有可能台積電A16技術製程會在美國？有沒有可能？你們有評估過嗎？經濟部。"],["陳次長正祺：報告委員，技術的問題，我沒有辦法詳細回答。"],["葉委員元之：有沒有評估過？你們部長一天到晚講台積電，現在美國說因為我們台積電在美國有66億美元的補助對吧！你知道這個事吧！"],["陳次長正祺：是。"],["葉委員元之：他們現在要求台積電A16技術製程要在美國啦！你們知道這個事嗎？"],["陳次長正祺：當時台積電去投資的時候，是經過投審會審查，我們有做過縝密的評估。"],["葉委員元之：所以你覺得這個東西沒有影響？"],["陳次長正祺：它要量產要比臺灣晚3年，而且它的研發中心在臺灣，所以我們認為臺灣的技術會維持領先的地位。"],["葉委員元之：好，所以次長的評估是說雖然A16技術製程有可能會在美國，但是因為我們會比他早量產3年，所以不會受到影響，這是經濟部的評估嘛！"],["陳次長正祺：會有正面的影響。"],["葉委員元之：還會有正面的影響，所以台積電最好那種高先進的製程就多去一點，還會有正面影響。"],["陳次長正祺：不是，第一個，這是台積電的商業決策，而且台積電本身也做過縝密的評估，我們以臺灣的利益為最高指導原則。"],["葉委員元之：你說台積電做評估，為什麼張忠謀在2022年會說在美國投資是貴且浪費？"],["陳次長正祺：對張創辦人的解釋我沒有辦法替他……"],["葉委員元之：你沒辦法替他回答，但你說台積電做過評估，但他們創辦人公開講在美投資是貴且浪費。"],["陳次長正祺：這個我們……"],["葉委員元之：有一個高盛，高盛大家知道嘛！高盛的亞太地區首席經濟學家說除了北京之外，臺灣、韓國、越南都可能會籠罩在美國提高我們關稅的陰影當中，這是高盛講的。"],["陳次長正祺：事實上……"],["葉委員元之：所以事實上就是會嘛！"],["陳次長正祺：事實上是全世界……"],["葉委員元之：全世界都會嘛！"],["陳次長正祺：對，全世界。"],["葉委員元之：所以要做好因應嘛！"],["陳次長正祺：是。"],["葉委員元之：不是說大家討論因應之道就是疑美論嘛！最後我問外交部次長一個問題，請問一下，現在慶賀團決定派誰代表了嗎？"],["田次長中光：還沒有。"],["葉委員元之：請問一下4年前、8年前，當時是什麼時間點會決定派誰？你在外交部服務很長一段時間了嘛！"],["田次長中光：對，可是這個你要確實……"],["葉委員元之：沒關係，我問一下，4年前那時候是什麼決定的？"],["田次長中光：我要請……"],["葉委員元之：8年前是什麼時候決定的？"],["田次長中光：我要查一下，我們在籌備當中。"],["葉委員元之：是這個時間點決定的嗎？"],["田次長中光：在籌備當中。"],["葉委員元之：現在目前可能人選有哪些人？你們的方向是什麼？"],["田次長中光：現在不便透露。"],["葉委員元之：不便透露，什麼時候會有答案？會比4年前慢嗎？會比8年前決定人選慢嗎？"],["田次長中光：我必須看4年前、8年前我們是什麼時間，我沒有辦法馬上回答你這個問題。"],["葉委員元之：再確認一下。"],["田次長中光：我沒有辦法馬上回答。"],["葉委員元之：會不會是立法院院長？不確定？"],["田次長中光：不確定。"],["葉委員元之：不確定，好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝葉元之委員，次長請回。","已登記質詢的委員，除了不在場外，均已發言完畢，報告及詢答結束。本日會議有王定宇委員、洪申翰委員、邱志偉委員提出書面質詢，請列入紀錄並刊登公報。請相關機關以書面於兩週內答復，委員口頭質詢未及答復部分或要求補充資料者，亦請相關單位以書面於兩週內提供，委員另有約定期限者，從其所定。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":322,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-15","speakers":["林憶君","沈伯洋","羅美玲","黃仁","徐巧芯","林楚茵","陳冠廷","陳永康","馬文君","王鴻薇","賴士葆","洪孟楷","楊瓊瓔","葉元之","王定宇","洪申翰","邱志偉"],"page_start":273,"meetingDate":["2024-11-20"],"gazette_id":"11310101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310101_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請外交部部長、國家發展委員會、經濟部報告「美國總統大選後，對於推動台美貿易及科技建\n立合作架構之影響」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"11310101_00006"}}}