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\"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,581 --> 00:00:01,901\n經濟部核次長\n\n2\n00:00:15,131 --> 00:00:41,668\n市長好我想我們經濟部的能源署在我們高雄的興達廠設立的高雄海洋科技產業創新區專區我們就稱為海創區好了那我想請問一下這項計畫總積分是42.63億後來因為展延現在增加到51.49億那第二期又多了一個深水池興建的工程又多了3.78億你覺得成效如何\n\n3\n00:00:46,605 --> 00:00:50,669\n市長你回答,你覺得成效如何?因為我們今天時間非常有限\n\n4\n00:00:53,385 --> 00:00:57,928\n我們成效是有達到當初我們設計的有嗎?有成效?不然我們來看一下有沒有達到這個部分這個審計部的決算報告告訴我們因為你們的界面整合很複雜建制技術很高所以工程一切的展現重要的是當初我們說好要做到這離岸風電廠的這個有關於實驗場域的期程\n\n5\n00:01:15,578 --> 00:01:15,598\n次長。\n\n6\n00:01:36,509 --> 00:01:38,591\n主席主席\n\n7\n00:01:54,469 --> 00:01:55,030\n二、審查行政院函請審查行政院函請審查\n\n8\n00:02:10,339 --> 00:02:33,350\n中鋼投資的興達海基這是我們國內唯二水下基礎工藝商6年虧了64億而且最重要是完全沒有風電的業務我們當時希望是能夠有風電的這樣子一個生產培植我們的本土的人員培植我們本土的技術然後你旗下20餘家的協力廠商員工報了離職潮次長你有掌握嗎\n\n9\n00:02:35,647 --> 00:02:47,900\n六年64億然後你是學氣管的好不好然後我們接下來再來看一下我再告訴你一個選項我們有為二的一個興達海基是我們中鋼的子公司六年課的64億另外一個世紀鋼在我們台北港\n\n10\n00:02:50,362 --> 00:02:51,883\n中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案：一、審查行政院函請審議\n\n11\n00:03:09,637 --> 00:03:23,074\n前瞻這兩個為二的地方為什麼差這麼多然後呢我們興達海基除了中東的子公司之外我們的國發的基金也有投資請問學氣管的次長你要不要對這兩個公司的命運稍微解釋一下\n\n12\n00:03:24,438 --> 00:03:42,271\n我講因為我們在發展這個離岸風電我們都需要有這些海下基礎工程的這些業者來協助那當然企業的經營有他的好啊那我們海上我們都需要只要能夠為我們本土的這個產業能夠發展我們都樂觀其成但是你看看當初你們宣稱可以產生1.2兆的產值2萬個工作機會但是我都拿審計部的報告來喔\n\n13\n00:03:53,439 --> 00:04:10,223\n第二個階段當中你們10個風場去年有9座是落後的而且呢海峽一期的風場本土化目標只有2成我們再往下來看你們當初告訴我們你們編列了2億8千萬左右然後你們給我們的升級輔導計畫裡面怎麼講你告訴我市場需求需要337座然後呢你們一連串的做下來不管累積的339座新達跟世紀總共要108座結果呢\n\n14\n00:04:21,386 --> 00:04:23,227\n二、審查行政院函請審查行政院函請審查行政院函請審查行政院\n\n15\n00:04:37,791 --> 00:04:39,754\n我們不斷的編預算我一直強調扶持本土工業沒有問題我們也很希望當初我在第9任立委的時候我就正於經濟部要培植國產的這個風電產業我已經提出了非常多質疑你們信誓旦旦數據會說謊\n\n16\n00:04:53,433 --> 00:05:21,130\n告訴我們跟我們要錢的時候告訴我們是339座你們做得到現在只有53座然後國內的供應鏈一年都可以慘賠到64億一年虧10億然後你現在為止因為WTO的問題現在已經想要拿掉國產化和政策的保護沒有國產化和政策保護你覺得這些供應鏈還有什麼辦法存活還有什麼辦法存活這些都是我們在之前已經提出來過了所以我真的還需要問的它的未來在哪裡\n\n17\n00:05:21,810 --> 00:05:40,197\n新島海基目前為止連一張離岸風電的訂單都沒有繼續燒錢海創中心本來說是一個非常棒的訓練中心現在變成出海前的人員訓練中心而且台灣目前為止你不知道風電的技術多麼多麼的先進目前為止我們是9.5、8到9.5的MW但是你不要忘記未來是14到15的MW我們完全沒有這個辦法\n\n18\n00:05:48,880 --> 00:06:14,196\n所以你告訴我們到底是怎麼一回事我們這個前瞻的錢還要繼續投資下去嗎目前的數據完全告訴你的落差這麼大還要再投資下去嗎你若要我們投資下去你是不是可以給我們一個理由給我們一個分析的理由而且我覺得台北港的世紀港訂單接不完而我們高雄的這個地方就連連虧損我真的覺得民進黨政府真的是重北輕難啦重北輕難啦對不對\n\n19\n00:06:16,557 --> 00:06:36,874\n市長那我們高雄的這個部分就要到我們這樣子虧這麼多台北的都可以賺這麼多我跟委員報告一下其實我們也在協助這個星達海基那是不是也可以有一些這個離岸風電的這些商機也能夠來給這個我當然也希望啊能夠本土但是你的數據我剛才還是強調數據會算因為數據差距這麼多數據差這麼多技術這麼樣不讓你前進你是要檢討你的政策\n\n20\n00:06:45,060 --> 00:07:13,046\n提供這個新打廠能夠讓我們這個部分符合你們當初所承諾的沒有問題但是經過這麼多年來我們以前提出這個問題沒有部分來解決而且更何況我們拿掉了國產的保護化測試之後你看這些該怎麼辦中央可以把很多錢給予中央的福利可是配合政府的政策還要國發基金進來結果竟然虧損連連你讓中央員工的很多福利因此受到損害我當然為高雄的中央講一句話難道不是嗎\n\n21\n00:07:14,868 --> 00:07:39,254\n我想我們會來協助新南海基我還是希望你如果要我們放這樣的一個預算進去請你拿出你們可以解決的方法包括現在的問題、未來的問題還有我剛所點出了從8到9的Megawatts你們都目前為止可以未來已經到14到15了歐洲的部分我們還有辦法拿到離岸封停的訂單嗎?現在沒有當初你們告訴我陪日本土化你們可以拿到這些訂單我們非常好\n\n22\n00:07:40,774 --> 00:07:58,432\n希望大家能夠透過國外的藝術精進可以讓我們國內可以發展顯然廠商都撤離了還沒有達到這個一張一張訂單都沒有這個部分姿勢體大次長你務必給我們一個交代這才是我們今天審慎前瞻最主要的監督的目的謝謝好謝謝委員謝謝謝謝柯志恩委員接著請王煌威委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1581\t1901\t經濟部核次長\n15131\t41668\t市長好我想我們經濟部的能源署在我們高雄的興達廠設立的高雄海洋科技產業創新區專區我們就稱為海創區好了那我想請問一下這項計畫總積分是42.63億後來因為展延現在增加到51.49億那第二期又多了一個深水池興建的工程又多了3.78億你覺得成效如何\n46605\t50669\t市長你回答,你覺得成效如何?因為我們今天時間非常有限\n53385\t57928\t我們成效是有達到當初我們設計的有嗎?有成效?不然我們來看一下有沒有達到這個部分這個審計部的決算報告告訴我們因為你們的界面整合很複雜建制技術很高所以工程一切的展現重要的是當初我們說好要做到這離岸風電廠的這個有關於實驗場域的期程\n75578\t75598\t次長。\n96509\t98591\t主席主席\n114469\t115030\t二、審查行政院函請審查行政院函請審查\n130339\t153350\t中鋼投資的興達海基這是我們國內唯二水下基礎工藝商6年虧了64億而且最重要是完全沒有風電的業務我們當時希望是能夠有風電的這樣子一個生產培植我們的本土的人員培植我們本土的技術然後你旗下20餘家的協力廠商員工報了離職潮次長你有掌握嗎\n155647\t167900\t六年64億然後你是學氣管的好不好然後我們接下來再來看一下我再告訴你一個選項我們有為二的一個興達海基是我們中鋼的子公司六年課的64億另外一個世紀鋼在我們台北港\n170362\t171883\t中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案 ：一、審查行政院函請審議\n189637\t203074\t前瞻這兩個為二的地方為什麼差這麼多然後呢我們興達海基除了中東的子公司之外我們的國發的基金也有投資請問學氣管的次長你要不要對這兩個公司的命運稍微解釋一下\n204438\t222271\t我講因為我們在發展這個離岸風電我們都需要有這些海下基礎工程的這些業者來協助那當然企業的經營有他的好啊那我們海上我們都需要只要能夠為我們本土的這個產業能夠發展我們都樂觀其成但是你看看當初你們宣稱可以產生1.2兆的產值2萬個工作機會但是我都拿審計部的報告來喔\n233439\t250223\t第二個階段當中你們10個風場去年有9座是落後的而且呢海峽一期的風場本土化目標只有2成我們再往下來看你們當初告訴我們你們編列了2億8千萬左右然後你們給我們的升級輔導計畫裡面怎麼講你告訴我市場需求需要337座然後呢你們一連串的做下來不管累積的339座新達跟世紀總共要108座結果呢\n261386\t263227\t二、審查行政院函請審查行政院函請審查行政院函請審查行政院\n277791\t279754\t我們不斷的編預算我一直強調扶持本土工業沒有問題我們也很希望當初我在第9任立委的時候我就正於經濟部要培植國產的這個風電產業我已經提出了非常多質疑你們信誓旦旦數據會說謊\n293433\t321130\t告訴我們跟我們要錢的時候告訴我們是339座你們做得到現在只有53座然後國內的供應鏈一年都可以慘賠到64億一年虧10億然後你現在為止因為WTO的問題現在已經想要拿掉國產化和政策的保護沒有國產化和政策保護你覺得這些供應鏈還有什麼辦法存活還有什麼辦法存活這些都是我們在之前已經提出來過了所以我真的還需要問的它的未來在哪裡\n321810\t340197\t新島海基目前為止連一張離岸風電的訂單都沒有繼續燒錢海創中心本來說是一個非常棒的訓練中心現在變成出海前的人員訓練中心而且台灣目前為止你不知道風電的技術多麼多麼的先進目前為止我們是9.5、8到9.5的MW但是你不要忘記未來是14到15的MW我們完全沒有這個辦法\n348880\t374196\t所以你告訴我們到底是怎麼一回事我們這個前瞻的錢還要繼續投資下去嗎目前的數據完全告訴你的落差這麼大還要再投資下去嗎你若要我們投資下去你是不是可以給我們一個理由給我們一個分析的理由而且我覺得台北港的世紀港訂單接不完而我們高雄的這個地方就連連虧損我真的覺得民進黨政府真的是重北輕難啦重北輕難啦 對不對\n376557\t396874\t市長 那我們高雄的這個部分就要到我們這樣子虧這麼多 台北的都可以賺這麼多我跟委員報告一下 其實我們也在協助這個星達海基那是不是也可以有一些這個離岸風電的這些商機也能夠來給這個我當然也希望啊 能夠本土 但是你的數據我剛才還是強調數據會算因為數據差距這麼多 數據差這麼多技術這麼樣不讓你前進 你是要檢討你的政策\n405060\t433046\t提供這個新打廠能夠讓我們這個部分符合你們當初所承諾的沒有問題但是經過這麼多年來我們以前提出這個問題沒有部分來解決而且更何況我們拿掉了國產的保護化測試之後你看這些該怎麼辦中央可以把很多錢給予中央的福利可是配合政府的政策還要國發基金進來結果竟然虧損連連你讓中央員工的很多福利因此受到損害我當然為高雄的中央講一句話難道不是嗎\n434868\t459254\t我想我們會來協助新南海基我還是希望你如果要我們放這樣的一個預算進去請你拿出你們可以解決的方法包括現在的問題、未來的問題還有我剛所點出了從8到9的Megawatts你們都目前為止可以未來已經到14到15了歐洲的部分我們還有辦法拿到離岸封停的訂單嗎?現在沒有當初你們告訴我陪日本土化你們可以拿到這些訂單我們非常好\n460774\t478432\t希望大家能夠透過國外的藝術精進可以讓我們國內可以發展顯然廠商都撤離了還沒有達到這個一張一張訂單都沒有這個部分姿勢體大次長你務必給我們一個交代這才是我們今天審慎前瞻最主要的監督的目的謝謝好謝謝委員謝謝謝謝柯志恩委員接著請王煌威委員\n","txt":"經濟部核次長\n市長好我想我們經濟部的能源署在我們高雄的興達廠設立的高雄海洋科技產業創新區專區我們就稱為海創區好了那我想請問一下這項計畫總積分是42.63億後來因為展延現在增加到51.49億那第二期又多了一個深水池興建的工程又多了3.78億你覺得成效如何\n市長你回答,你覺得成效如何?因為我們今天時間非常有限\n我們成效是有達到當初我們設計的有嗎?有成效?不然我們來看一下有沒有達到這個部分這個審計部的決算報告告訴我們因為你們的界面整合很複雜建制技術很高所以工程一切的展現重要的是當初我們說好要做到這離岸風電廠的這個有關於實驗場域的期程\n次長。\n主席主席\n二、審查行政院函請審查行政院函請審查\n中鋼投資的興達海基這是我們國內唯二水下基礎工藝商6年虧了64億而且最重要是完全沒有風電的業務我們當時希望是能夠有風電的這樣子一個生產培植我們的本土的人員培植我們本土的技術然後你旗下20餘家的協力廠商員工報了離職潮次長你有掌握嗎\n六年64億然後你是學氣管的好不好然後我們接下來再來看一下我再告訴你一個選項我們有為二的一個興達海基是我們中鋼的子公司六年課的64億另外一個世紀鋼在我們台北港\n中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案 ：一、審查行政院函請審議\n前瞻這兩個為二的地方為什麼差這麼多然後呢我們興達海基除了中東的子公司之外我們的國發的基金也有投資請問學氣管的次長你要不要對這兩個公司的命運稍微解釋一下\n我講因為我們在發展這個離岸風電我們都需要有這些海下基礎工程的這些業者來協助那當然企業的經營有他的好啊那我們海上我們都需要只要能夠為我們本土的這個產業能夠發展我們都樂觀其成但是你看看當初你們宣稱可以產生1.2兆的產值2萬個工作機會但是我都拿審計部的報告來喔\n第二個階段當中你們10個風場去年有9座是落後的而且呢海峽一期的風場本土化目標只有2成我們再往下來看你們當初告訴我們你們編列了2億8千萬左右然後你們給我們的升級輔導計畫裡面怎麼講你告訴我市場需求需要337座然後呢你們一連串的做下來不管累積的339座新達跟世紀總共要108座結果呢\n二、審查行政院函請審查行政院函請審查行政院函請審查行政院\n我們不斷的編預算我一直強調扶持本土工業沒有問題我們也很希望當初我在第9任立委的時候我就正於經濟部要培植國產的這個風電產業我已經提出了非常多質疑你們信誓旦旦數據會說謊\n告訴我們跟我們要錢的時候告訴我們是339座你們做得到現在只有53座然後國內的供應鏈一年都可以慘賠到64億一年虧10億然後你現在為止因為WTO的問題現在已經想要拿掉國產化和政策的保護沒有國產化和政策保護你覺得這些供應鏈還有什麼辦法存活還有什麼辦法存活這些都是我們在之前已經提出來過了所以我真的還需要問的它的未來在哪裡\n新島海基目前為止連一張離岸風電的訂單都沒有繼續燒錢海創中心本來說是一個非常棒的訓練中心現在變成出海前的人員訓練中心而且台灣目前為止你不知道風電的技術多麼多麼的先進目前為止我們是9.5、8到9.5的MW但是你不要忘記未來是14到15的MW我們完全沒有這個辦法\n所以你告訴我們到底是怎麼一回事我們這個前瞻的錢還要繼續投資下去嗎目前的數據完全告訴你的落差這麼大還要再投資下去嗎你若要我們投資下去你是不是可以給我們一個理由給我們一個分析的理由而且我覺得台北港的世紀港訂單接不完而我們高雄的這個地方就連連虧損我真的覺得民進黨政府真的是重北輕難啦重北輕難啦 對不對\n市長 那我們高雄的這個部分就要到我們這樣子虧這麼多 台北的都可以賺這麼多我跟委員報告一下 其實我們也在協助這個星達海基那是不是也可以有一些這個離岸風電的這些商機也能夠來給這個我當然也希望啊 能夠本土 但是你的數據我剛才還是強調數據會算因為數據差距這麼多 數據差這麼多技術這麼樣不讓你前進 你是要檢討你的政策\n提供這個新打廠能夠讓我們這個部分符合你們當初所承諾的沒有問題但是經過這麼多年來我們以前提出這個問題沒有部分來解決而且更何況我們拿掉了國產的保護化測試之後你看這些該怎麼辦中央可以把很多錢給予中央的福利可是配合政府的政策還要國發基金進來結果竟然虧損連連你讓中央員工的很多福利因此受到損害我當然為高雄的中央講一句話難道不是嗎\n我想我們會來協助新南海基我還是希望你如果要我們放這樣的一個預算進去請你拿出你們可以解決的方法包括現在的問題、未來的問題還有我剛所點出了從8到9的Megawatts你們都目前為止可以未來已經到14到15了歐洲的部分我們還有辦法拿到離岸封停的訂單嗎?現在沒有當初你們告訴我陪日本土化你們可以拿到這些訂單我們非常好\n希望大家能夠透過國外的藝術精進可以讓我們國內可以發展顯然廠商都撤離了還沒有達到這個一張一張訂單都沒有這個部分姿勢體大次長你務必給我們一個交代這才是我們今天審慎前瞻最主要的監督的目的謝謝好謝謝委員謝謝謝謝柯志恩委員接著請王煌威委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.581 --> 00:01.901\n經濟部核次長\n\n00:15.131 --> 00:41.668\n市長好我想我們經濟部的能源署在我們高雄的興達廠設立的高雄海洋科技產業創新區專區我們就稱為海創區好了那我想請問一下這項計畫總積分是42.63億後來因為展延現在增加到51.49億那第二期又多了一個深水池興建的工程又多了3.78億你覺得成效如何\n\n00:46.605 --> 00:50.669\n市長你回答,你覺得成效如何?因為我們今天時間非常有限\n\n00:53.385 --> 00:57.928\n我們成效是有達到當初我們設計的有嗎?有成效?不然我們來看一下有沒有達到這個部分這個審計部的決算報告告訴我們因為你們的界面整合很複雜建制技術很高所以工程一切的展現重要的是當初我們說好要做到這離岸風電廠的這個有關於實驗場域的期程\n\n01:15.578 --> 01:15.598\n次長。\n\n01:36.509 --> 01:38.591\n主席主席\n\n01:54.469 --> 01:55.030\n二、審查行政院函請審查行政院函請審查\n\n02:10.339 --> 02:33.350\n中鋼投資的興達海基這是我們國內唯二水下基礎工藝商6年虧了64億而且最重要是完全沒有風電的業務我們當時希望是能夠有風電的這樣子一個生產培植我們的本土的人員培植我們本土的技術然後你旗下20餘家的協力廠商員工報了離職潮次長你有掌握嗎\n\n02:35.647 --> 02:47.900\n六年64億然後你是學氣管的好不好然後我們接下來再來看一下我再告訴你一個選項我們有為二的一個興達海基是我們中鋼的子公司六年課的64億另外一個世紀鋼在我們台北港\n\n02:50.362 --> 02:51.883\n中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案：一、審查行政院函請審議\n\n03:09.637 --> 03:23.074\n前瞻這兩個為二的地方為什麼差這麼多然後呢我們興達海基除了中東的子公司之外我們的國發的基金也有投資請問學氣管的次長你要不要對這兩個公司的命運稍微解釋一下\n\n03:24.438 --> 03:42.271\n我講因為我們在發展這個離岸風電我們都需要有這些海下基礎工程的這些業者來協助那當然企業的經營有他的好啊那我們海上我們都需要只要能夠為我們本土的這個產業能夠發展我們都樂觀其成但是你看看當初你們宣稱可以產生1.2兆的產值2萬個工作機會但是我都拿審計部的報告來喔\n\n03:53.439 --> 04:10.223\n第二個階段當中你們10個風場去年有9座是落後的而且呢海峽一期的風場本土化目標只有2成我們再往下來看你們當初告訴我們你們編列了2億8千萬左右然後你們給我們的升級輔導計畫裡面怎麼講你告訴我市場需求需要337座然後呢你們一連串的做下來不管累積的339座新達跟世紀總共要108座結果呢\n\n04:21.386 --> 04:23.227\n二、審查行政院函請審查行政院函請審查行政院函請審查行政院\n\n04:37.791 --> 04:39.754\n我們不斷的編預算我一直強調扶持本土工業沒有問題我們也很希望當初我在第9任立委的時候我就正於經濟部要培植國產的這個風電產業我已經提出了非常多質疑你們信誓旦旦數據會說謊\n\n04:53.433 --> 05:21.130\n告訴我們跟我們要錢的時候告訴我們是339座你們做得到現在只有53座然後國內的供應鏈一年都可以慘賠到64億一年虧10億然後你現在為止因為WTO的問題現在已經想要拿掉國產化和政策的保護沒有國產化和政策保護你覺得這些供應鏈還有什麼辦法存活還有什麼辦法存活這些都是我們在之前已經提出來過了所以我真的還需要問的它的未來在哪裡\n\n05:21.810 --> 05:40.197\n新島海基目前為止連一張離岸風電的訂單都沒有繼續燒錢海創中心本來說是一個非常棒的訓練中心現在變成出海前的人員訓練中心而且台灣目前為止你不知道風電的技術多麼多麼的先進目前為止我們是9.5、8到9.5的MW但是你不要忘記未來是14到15的MW我們完全沒有這個辦法\n\n05:48.880 --> 06:14.196\n所以你告訴我們到底是怎麼一回事我們這個前瞻的錢還要繼續投資下去嗎目前的數據完全告訴你的落差這麼大還要再投資下去嗎你若要我們投資下去你是不是可以給我們一個理由給我們一個分析的理由而且我覺得台北港的世紀港訂單接不完而我們高雄的這個地方就連連虧損我真的覺得民進黨政府真的是重北輕難啦重北輕難啦對不對\n\n06:16.557 --> 06:36.874\n市長那我們高雄的這個部分就要到我們這樣子虧這麼多台北的都可以賺這麼多我跟委員報告一下其實我們也在協助這個星達海基那是不是也可以有一些這個離岸風電的這些商機也能夠來給這個我當然也希望啊能夠本土但是你的數據我剛才還是強調數據會算因為數據差距這麼多數據差這麼多技術這麼樣不讓你前進你是要檢討你的政策\n\n06:45.060 --> 07:13.046\n提供這個新打廠能夠讓我們這個部分符合你們當初所承諾的沒有問題但是經過這麼多年來我們以前提出這個問題沒有部分來解決而且更何況我們拿掉了國產的保護化測試之後你看這些該怎麼辦中央可以把很多錢給予中央的福利可是配合政府的政策還要國發基金進來結果竟然虧損連連你讓中央員工的很多福利因此受到損害我當然為高雄的中央講一句話難道不是嗎\n\n07:14.868 --> 07:39.254\n我想我們會來協助新南海基我還是希望你如果要我們放這樣的一個預算進去請你拿出你們可以解決的方法包括現在的問題、未來的問題還有我剛所點出了從8到9的Megawatts你們都目前為止可以未來已經到14到15了歐洲的部分我們還有辦法拿到離岸封停的訂單嗎?現在沒有當初你們告訴我陪日本土化你們可以拿到這些訂單我們非常好\n\n07:40.774 --> 07:58.432\n希望大家能夠透過國外的藝術精進可以讓我們國內可以發展顯然廠商都撤離了還沒有達到這個一張一張訂單都沒有這個部分姿勢體大次長你務必給我們一個交代這才是我們今天審慎前瞻最主要的監督的目的謝謝好謝謝委員謝謝謝謝柯志恩委員接著請王煌威委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.581,"end":1.901,"text":"經濟部核次長"},{"start":15.131,"end":41.668,"text":"市長好我想我們經濟部的能源署在我們高雄的興達廠設立的高雄海洋科技產業創新區專區我們就稱為海創區好了那我想請問一下這項計畫總積分是42.63億後來因為展延現在增加到51.49億那第二期又多了一個深水池興建的工程又多了3.78億你覺得成效如何"},{"start":46.605,"end":50.669,"text":"市長你回答,你覺得成效如何?因為我們今天時間非常有限"},{"start":53.385,"end":57.928,"text":"我們成效是有達到當初我們設計的有嗎?有成效?不然我們來看一下有沒有達到這個部分這個審計部的決算報告告訴我們因為你們的界面整合很複雜建制技術很高所以工程一切的展現重要的是當初我們說好要做到這離岸風電廠的這個有關於實驗場域的期程"},{"start":75.578,"end":75.598,"text":"次長。"},{"start":96.509,"end":98.591,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":114.469,"end":115.03,"text":"二、審查行政院函請審查行政院函請審查"},{"start":130.339,"end":153.35,"text":"中鋼投資的興達海基這是我們國內唯二水下基礎工藝商6年虧了64億而且最重要是完全沒有風電的業務我們當時希望是能夠有風電的這樣子一個生產培植我們的本土的人員培植我們本土的技術然後你旗下20餘家的協力廠商員工報了離職潮次長你有掌握嗎"},{"start":155.647,"end":167.9,"text":"六年64億然後你是學氣管的好不好然後我們接下來再來看一下我再告訴你一個選項我們有為二的一個興達海基是我們中鋼的子公司六年課的64億另外一個世紀鋼在我們台北港"},{"start":170.362,"end":171.883,"text":"中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案 ：一、審查行政院函請審議"},{"start":189.637,"end":203.074,"text":"前瞻這兩個為二的地方為什麼差這麼多然後呢我們興達海基除了中東的子公司之外我們的國發的基金也有投資請問學氣管的次長你要不要對這兩個公司的命運稍微解釋一下"},{"start":204.438,"end":222.271,"text":"我講因為我們在發展這個離岸風電我們都需要有這些海下基礎工程的這些業者來協助那當然企業的經營有他的好啊那我們海上我們都需要只要能夠為我們本土的這個產業能夠發展我們都樂觀其成但是你看看當初你們宣稱可以產生1.2兆的產值2萬個工作機會但是我都拿審計部的報告來喔"},{"start":233.439,"end":250.223,"text":"第二個階段當中你們10個風場去年有9座是落後的而且呢海峽一期的風場本土化目標只有2成我們再往下來看你們當初告訴我們你們編列了2億8千萬左右然後你們給我們的升級輔導計畫裡面怎麼講你告訴我市場需求需要337座然後呢你們一連串的做下來不管累積的339座新達跟世紀總共要108座結果呢"},{"start":261.386,"end":263.227,"text":"二、審查行政院函請審查行政院函請審查行政院函請審查行政院"},{"start":277.791,"end":279.754,"text":"我們不斷的編預算我一直強調扶持本土工業沒有問題我們也很希望當初我在第9任立委的時候我就正於經濟部要培植國產的這個風電產業我已經提出了非常多質疑你們信誓旦旦數據會說謊"},{"start":293.433,"end":321.13,"text":"告訴我們跟我們要錢的時候告訴我們是339座你們做得到現在只有53座然後國內的供應鏈一年都可以慘賠到64億一年虧10億然後你現在為止因為WTO的問題現在已經想要拿掉國產化和政策的保護沒有國產化和政策保護你覺得這些供應鏈還有什麼辦法存活還有什麼辦法存活這些都是我們在之前已經提出來過了所以我真的還需要問的它的未來在哪裡"},{"start":321.81,"end":340.197,"text":"新島海基目前為止連一張離岸風電的訂單都沒有繼續燒錢海創中心本來說是一個非常棒的訓練中心現在變成出海前的人員訓練中心而且台灣目前為止你不知道風電的技術多麼多麼的先進目前為止我們是9.5、8到9.5的MW但是你不要忘記未來是14到15的MW我們完全沒有這個辦法"},{"start":348.88,"end":374.196,"text":"所以你告訴我們到底是怎麼一回事我們這個前瞻的錢還要繼續投資下去嗎目前的數據完全告訴你的落差這麼大還要再投資下去嗎你若要我們投資下去你是不是可以給我們一個理由給我們一個分析的理由而且我覺得台北港的世紀港訂單接不完而我們高雄的這個地方就連連虧損我真的覺得民進黨政府真的是重北輕難啦重北輕難啦 對不對"},{"start":376.557,"end":396.874,"text":"市長 那我們高雄的這個部分就要到我們這樣子虧這麼多 台北的都可以賺這麼多我跟委員報告一下 其實我們也在協助這個星達海基那是不是也可以有一些這個離岸風電的這些商機也能夠來給這個我當然也希望啊 能夠本土 但是你的數據我剛才還是強調數據會算因為數據差距這麼多 數據差這麼多技術這麼樣不讓你前進 你是要檢討你的政策"},{"start":405.06,"end":433.046,"text":"提供這個新打廠能夠讓我們這個部分符合你們當初所承諾的沒有問題但是經過這麼多年來我們以前提出這個問題沒有部分來解決而且更何況我們拿掉了國產的保護化測試之後你看這些該怎麼辦中央可以把很多錢給予中央的福利可是配合政府的政策還要國發基金進來結果竟然虧損連連你讓中央員工的很多福利因此受到損害我當然為高雄的中央講一句話難道不是嗎"},{"start":434.868,"end":459.254,"text":"我想我們會來協助新南海基我還是希望你如果要我們放這樣的一個預算進去請你拿出你們可以解決的方法包括現在的問題、未來的問題還有我剛所點出了從8到9的Megawatts你們都目前為止可以未來已經到14到15了歐洲的部分我們還有辦法拿到離岸封停的訂單嗎?現在沒有當初你們告訴我陪日本土化你們可以拿到這些訂單我們非常好"},{"start":460.774,"end":478.432,"text":"希望大家能夠透過國外的藝術精進可以讓我們國內可以發展顯然廠商都撤離了還沒有達到這個一張一張訂單都沒有這個部分姿勢體大次長你務必給我們一個交代這才是我們今天審慎前瞻最主要的監督的目的謝謝好謝謝委員謝謝謝謝柯志恩委員接著請王煌威委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1986,"blocks":[["柯委員志恩：（12時55分）謝謝召委，請經濟部何次長。"],["主席：何次長。"],["何次長晉滄：委員好。"],["柯委員志恩：次長好。經濟部能源署在高雄的興達港設立的「高雄海洋科技產業創新專區」，我們就稱為海創區好了，我想請問，這項計畫總經費是42.63億元，後來因為展延，現在增加到51.49億元，第二期又多了一個深水池，興建的工程又多了3.78億元，你覺得成效如何？"],["何次長晉滄：是不是我請我們……"],["柯委員志恩：沒有，次長你回答。你就告訴我你覺得成效如何嘛，因為我們今天時間非常有限。"],["何次長晉滄：我們成效是有達到當初我們設計的……"],["柯委員志恩：有嗎？有成效？不然我們來看一下有沒有達到這個部分。審計部的決算報告告訴我們，因為你們的介面整合很複雜、建置技術難度很高，所以工程一再的展延，重要的是當初說好要做的離岸風電廠商海上訓練及實驗場域的期程，現在很多廠商已經進駐了九成，但是你們的收入完全不敷營運的支出，而且虧損不斷的擴大，對於你們所要培訓的人次也沒有達到標準，然後都有呈現收入衰退的狀況。所以你如何告訴我，跟你們當初的預估的目標是一致的？次長。"],["何次長晉滄：跟委員報告，因為當初這個計畫我們是初期的投資，投資的金額比較高一點，我們後續在整個維運的時候，我們會慢慢……"],["柯委員志恩：是啊！是投資金額高一點，那你們還要更高吔！你們目前還要再投資7.83億元，而且要求中鋼投資68.42億元成立了一個子公司叫做興達海基，還要成立3個中心。我們往下看，結果你看看，中鋼投資的興達海基，這是國內唯二水下基礎供應商，6年虧了64億元，而且最重要的是完全沒有風電的業務。我們當初希望是能夠有風電的一個實驗場，培植我們本土的人員、培植我們本土的技術，然後你旗下20餘家的協力廠商員工爆了離職潮，次長，你有掌握嗎？6年64億元，然後你是學企管的。"],["何次長晉滄：是。"],["柯委員志恩：然後我們接下來再來看一下，我再告訴你一個，水下有唯二的，一個興達海基是我們中鋼的子公司，6年虧了64億；另外一個世紀鋼在臺北港，賺得非常的多，當然是董事長很認真，當然他也是我們蔡英文總統競選時，所謂離岸風電後援會的會長，對於他們的成就我們當然給予肯定，但是他們5年的市值成長20倍，股價從不到10塊，現在是205塊哦！是怎樣，這兩個唯二的地方為什麼差這麼多？然後興達海基除了中鋼的子公司之外，我們的國發基金也有投資。請問學企管的次長，你要不要對這兩個公司的命運稍微解釋一下？"],["何次長晉滄：因為我們在發展離岸風電都需要這些海下基礎工程業者來協助，當然企業的經營有它的……"],["柯委員志恩：好啊，那海上……我們都需要，只要能夠讓本土的產業能夠發展，我們都樂觀其成。但是你看看，當初你們宣稱可以產生1.2兆元的產值，2萬個工作機會，我就拿審計部的報告來，第二個階段當中，你們10個風場去年有9座是落後的，而且海峽一期的風場本土化目標只有兩成。我們再往下來看，你們當初告訴我們，你們編列了2億8,000萬元左右，然後你們給的升級輔導計畫裡面怎麼講？你告訴我市場需求需要337座，然後你們一連串的做下來，不管累計339座、興達海基跟世紀鋼總共108座，結果呢？","我們要培植我們的產業，非常好啊！結果是怎麼樣？次長，你看一下，到目前為止，到6月底為止供應的部分，你們告訴我們是339座，現在只有53座，怎麼會落差這麼大？前瞻到底在幹嘛？我們不斷的編預算，我一直強調扶持本土工業沒有問題，我們也很希望，當初我在第9屆立委的時候，就對於經濟部要培植國產的風電產業，我已經提出了非常多質疑，你們信誓旦旦，數據會說話，跟我們要錢的時候告訴我們339座你們做得到，現在只有53座，然後國內的供應鏈6年你都可以慘賠到64億，一年虧10億。到現在為止，因為WTO的問題，現在已經想要拿掉國產化政策的保護，沒有國產化的政策保護，你覺得這些供應鏈還有什麼辦法存活？還有什麼辦法存活？這些都是我們在之前已經提出來過，所以我真的還是要問，它的未來在哪裡？","興達海基目前為止，連一張離岸風電的訂單都沒有，繼續燒錢。海創中心本來說是一個非常棒的訓練中心，現在變成出海前的人員訓練中心，而且臺灣目前為止，你不知道風電的技術多麼多麼的先進，目前為止我們是8到9.5MW，但是你不要忘記，未來是14到15MW，我們完全沒有辦法，所以你告訴我們到底是怎麼一回事？前瞻的錢還要繼續投資下去嗎？目前的數據完全告訴你落差這麼大，還要再投資下去嗎？你如果要我們投資下去，是不是可以給我們一個理由？要給我們一個分析的理由，而且我覺得臺北港的世紀鋼訂單接不完，我們高雄這個地方就連連虧損，我覺得民進黨政府真的是重北輕南啊！重北輕南啊！對不對？為什麼高雄這個部分就要讓我們虧這麼多，臺北的都可以賺這麼多？"],["何次長晉滄：我跟委員報告一下，其實我們也在協助興達海基，是不是可以有一些離岸風電的商機能夠給興達海基……"],["柯委員志恩：我當然很希望啊！能夠本土，但是你的數據，我剛剛還是強調，數據會說話……"],["何次長晉滄：是，我們會來協助。"],["柯委員志恩：那個數據差距這麼多，數據差這麼多，技術不斷地前進，你是不是要檢討你的政策？提供興達廠，能夠讓這個部分符合你們當初所承諾的沒有問題，但是經過這麼多年來，我們以前提出這個問題沒有部分來解決，更何況我們拿掉了國產化保護撤資之後，你看這些該怎麼辦？中鋼可以把他們很多錢給予中鋼的福利，可是配合政府的政策，還有國發基金進來，結果竟然虧損連連，你讓中鋼員工的很多福利因此受到損害欸！我當然要為高雄的中鋼講一句話，難道不是嗎？"],["何次長晉滄：是，我想我們會來協助興達海基，因為它來……"],["柯委員志恩：我還是希望，你如果要我們放這樣的預算進去，請你拿出可以解決的方法，包括現在的問題、未來的問題，還有我剛剛所點出的，從8到9MW你們目前為止可以，未來人家已經到14到15MW了，歐洲的部分，我們還有辦法拿到離岸風電的訂單嗎？現在沒有！當初你們告訴我培植本土化可以拿到這些訂單，我們覺得非常好，希望大家能夠透過國外的技術引進，讓我們國內也可以發展，顯然廠商都撤離了還沒有達到這個目標，一張訂單都沒有，這個部分茲事體大，次長，你務必給我們一個交代，這才是我們今天審前瞻最主要監督的目的，謝謝。"],["何次長晉滄：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝柯志恩委員。","接著請王鴻薇委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":312,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-2-20,15,19,22,23,26-1","speakers":["陳玉珍","林德福","吳秉叡","李坤城","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","林宜瑾","郭國文","賴惠員","賴士葆","洪孟楷","顏寬恒","萬美玲","王世堅","蘇巧慧","王美惠","張雅琳","柯志恩","王鴻薇","陳超明","陳菁徽","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","李昆澤","黃秀芳","吳沛憶","林月琴","郭昱晴","陳秀寳","陳培瑜","李柏毅","張智倫","李彥秀","黃健豪","徐富癸","張宏陸","謝衣鳯","楊瓊瓔","劉建國","范雲","游顥","林倩綺","王正旭","何欣純","羅明才","鄭正鈐","王育敏","葛如鈞","邱志偉","羅廷瑋","盧縣一","吳春城","黃珊珊","林俊憲","黃國昌","蘇清泉","陳昭姿","蔡其昌","張嘉郡","陳素月","邱議瑩","葉元之","邱鎮軍","蔡易餘"],"page_start":67,"meetingDate":["2024-11-20"],"gazette_id":"11310301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310301_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政、內政、經濟、教育及文化、交通、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請相關部會首長就「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第4期特別預算執行情形及成效」進行專\n題報告，並備質詢；二、審查行政院函請審議「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第 5 期特別預算案\n（114年度）」（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"11310301_00002"}}}