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00:00:47,423\n這個親身跟他無關感覺你沒有辦法是明確再去講這一塊但是我們覺得你很矛盾但是現在不只針對個案我們要求的要求的你要如何處理這個受害者如何處理對他比較公平還有我們對我們的家屬要如何交代還有我們全國的勞工\n\n4\n00:01:07,909 --> 00:01:16,214\n多在權力都在你的手上所以現在我們不是針對個案對面所有的同仁\n\n5\n00:01:17,250 --> 00:01:43,095\n都心驚驚心慌慌對不對因為你現在這樣的署長你部長你都一直在回答都沒有明確也沒有解決的方案所以我們希望你要表態你如何加嚴管理你有什麼策略或者未來你怎麼樣去加嚴才不會大家問你有沒有要負責下台\n\n6\n00:01:43,775 --> 00:01:54,218\n你要一從發生到現在你一定要有一個作為吧對不對才讓我們全國的大眾認同說你真的去處理有嗎我會做\n\n7\n00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:28,917\n你會做,你會做不是用講的啊用講的講,講成一句等等啊,講很等的啊用做得快,就一定要有規劃吧整個部會呢,整個部會是勞動部整個部會啊要求全國的人,我們的部會是帶頭為法這樣子的話,我們希望你要有書面、有規劃、有計劃怎麼去做對我們內部的管理,大家才能去遵守\n\n8\n00:02:29,797 --> 00:02:54,505\n這個部分要求還有第二個我們分署內的工作量就是超過大家的負荷所以大家就是很多人的離職剛才有都問了這個部分我們就不多來去講但是臺電經理推打小職員還有女警留場等的連接發生這些也是跟勞動部有關是不是\n\n9\n00:02:57,407 --> 00:03:18,869\n這樣子的話是否說我們在反映就是勞動部缺雜有效的防範機制也是為了掩蓋這個真相所以我們覺得你用設立一個匿名的調查但是報偵說裡面還要用私人的信箱這樣子叫匿名嗎?\n\n10\n00:03:20,512 --> 00:03:41,439\n所以變成是你要做人看的嘛對不對你要跟大家說要有調查所以大家有沒有被霸凌或有其他的調查你要去解決這個問題你要調查但叫大家匿名又叫大家寫私人的信箱這樣叫做匿名問卷嗎這樣子你覺得是說誰敢去寫這樣子的一個問卷\n\n11\n00:03:48,854 --> 00:03:51,696\n所以這個部分我們希望我們要部長要做就要做實的啦不要被人騙這樣啦對大家就不好啦因為大家你要對內對外都要去真正的要有實作才對我們才覺得我們勞動部是真的是我們勞工的信任還有把關\n\n12\n00:04:14,293 --> 00:04:33,923\n還有第二個給我一分鐘的時間因為我想要問部長我們目前的移工在臺灣除了解決切工以外因為現在我們移工來臺灣他們解決的什麼行業的切工最多什麼行業移工來臺灣製造業還有呢\n\n13\n00:04:47,114 --> 00:04:54,016\n所以說為什麼說解決台灣的缺工?還為什麼我們台灣還有那麼多人失業呢?對不對?如果你台灣有那麼多人失業你為什麼還要引進那麼多移工呢?所以移工進來是害了台灣還是幫助了台灣?\n\n14\n00:05:07,585 --> 00:05:11,768\n委員,移工進來當然是對台灣有幫助的對啊,所以說我要跟,讓你說跟全國說移工進來是對台灣有幫助的但是呢,你覺得他對台灣有幫助但是你覺得他的生活還有他的工作環境還有居住環境你覺得合理嗎?合法嗎?\n\n15\n00:05:30,427 --> 00:05:41,796\n這是應該要確實移工的生活環境本來就是我們一直致力在改善的致力改善要有確定的改善我們移工每個要進來中介費還有每個服務費他們都在繳我們中小企業每一個月都要繳給我們勞動部的就業安定基金所以呢他們雙方都有繳服務費跟保護費啦但是我們勞動部給他們這樣子的工作環境\n\n16\n00:06:00,269 --> 00:06:08,535\n所以他們要不要逃跑要不要離開這個工作崗位如果是你留在這邊工作你要離開嗎所以這個就是我們勞動部不只沒辦法解決我們在地我們的國民的勞工還沒辦法解決外籍勞工所以兩個勞工的在我們台灣都需要你多多關心多多去協助不是用說改善或者是討論\n\n17\n00:06:29,149 --> 00:06:41,177\n這個原因對我們來說都是敷衍而已啦希望你要提出真正的規劃讓我們看到你的誠意也真的解決問題所以我們希望是你要解決問題用靠的解決不了啦但是我們要用真正的處理方式因為現在已經發生還沒有發生還沒有新聞知道\n\n18\n00:06:53,904 --> 00:06:54,104\n謝謝麥委員謝謝部長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1725\t3087\t謝謝主席 有請部長部長好\n13953\t38540\t辛苦了哈對但是我們還是一樣就是繼續來去問你因為我們看到報告就是剛才我們許委員有問報告裡面說無法證明同人是親身與霸凌相關所以我們真的是這個剛才你也沒有明確的說他你一直在說他是有霸凌的行為但是\n40060\t47423\t這個親身跟他無關感覺你沒有辦法是明確再去講這一塊但是我們覺得你很矛盾但是現在不只針對個案我們要求的要求的你要如何處理這個受害者如何處理對他比較公平還有我們對我們的家屬要如何交代還有我們全國的勞工\n67909\t76214\t多在權力都在你的手上所以現在我們不是針對個案對面所有的同仁\n77250\t103095\t都心驚驚心慌慌對不對因為你現在這樣的署長你部長你都一直在回答都沒有明確也沒有解決的方案所以我們希望你要表態你如何加嚴管理你有什麼策略或者未來你怎麼樣去加嚴才不會大家問你有沒有要負責下台\n103775\t114218\t你要一從發生到現在你一定要有一個作為吧對不對才讓我們全國的大眾認同說你真的去處理有嗎我會做\n120560\t148917\t你會做,你會做不是用講的啊用講的講,講成一句等等啊,講很等的啊用做得快,就一定要有規劃吧整個部會呢,整個部會是勞動部整個部會啊要求全國的人,我們的部會是帶頭為法這樣子的話,我們希望你要有書面、有規劃、有計劃怎麼去做對我們內部的管理,大家才能去遵守\n149797\t174505\t這個部分要求還有第二個我們分署內的工作量就是超過大家的負荷所以大家就是很多人的離職剛才有都問了這個部分我們就不多來去講但是臺電經理推打小職員還有女警留場等的連接發生這些也是跟勞動部有關是不是\n177407\t198869\t這樣子的話是否說我們在反映就是勞動部缺雜有效的防範機制也是為了掩蓋這個真相所以我們覺得你用設立一個匿名的調查但是報偵說裡面還要用私人的信箱這樣子叫匿名嗎?\n200512\t221439\t所以變成是你要做人看的嘛對不對你要跟大家說要有調查所以大家有沒有被霸凌或有其他的調查你要去解決這個問題你要調查但叫大家匿名又叫大家寫私人的信箱這樣叫做匿名問卷嗎這樣子你覺得是說誰敢去寫這樣子的一個問卷\n228854\t231696\t所以這個部分我們希望我們要部長要做就要做實的啦不要被人騙這樣啦對大家就不好啦因為大家你要對內對外都要去真正的要有實作才對我們才覺得我們勞動部是真的是我們勞工的信任還有把關\n254293\t273923\t還有第二個給我一分鐘的時間因為我想要問部長我們目前的移工在臺灣除了解決切工以外因為現在我們移工來臺灣他們解決的什麼行業的切工最多什麼行業移工來臺灣製造業還有呢\n287114\t294016\t所以說為什麼說解決台灣的缺工?還為什麼我們台灣還有那麼多人失業呢?對不對?如果你台灣有那麼多人失業你為什麼還要引進那麼多移工呢?所以移工進來是害了台灣還是幫助了台灣?\n307585\t311768\t委員,移工進來當然是對台灣有幫助的對啊,所以說我要跟,讓你說跟全國說移工進來是對台灣有幫助的但是呢,你覺得他對台灣有幫助但是你覺得他的生活還有他的工作環境還有居住環境你覺得合理嗎?合法嗎?\n330427\t341796\t這是應該要確實移工的生活環境本來就是我們一直致力在改善的致力改善要有確定的改善我們移工每個要進來中介費還有每個服務費他們都在繳我們中小企業每一個月都要繳給我們勞動部的就業安定基金所以呢他們雙方都有繳服務費跟保護費啦但是我們勞動部給他們這樣子的工作環境\n360269\t368535\t所以他們要不要逃跑要不要離開這個工作崗位如果是你留在這邊工作你要離開嗎所以這個就是我們勞動部不只沒辦法解決我們在地我們的國民的勞工還沒辦法解決外籍勞工所以兩個勞工的在我們台灣都需要你多多關心多多去協助不是用說改善或者是討論\n389149\t401177\t這個原因對我們來說都是敷衍而已啦希望你要提出真正的規劃讓我們看到你的誠意也真的解決問題所以我們希望是你要解決問題用靠的解決不了啦但是我們要用真正的處理方式因為現在已經發生還沒有發生還沒有新聞知道\n413904\t414104\t謝謝麥委員 謝謝部長\n","txt":"謝謝主席 有請部長部長好\n辛苦了哈對但是我們還是一樣就是繼續來去問你因為我們看到報告就是剛才我們許委員有問報告裡面說無法證明同人是親身與霸凌相關所以我們真的是這個剛才你也沒有明確的說他你一直在說他是有霸凌的行為但是\n這個親身跟他無關感覺你沒有辦法是明確再去講這一塊但是我們覺得你很矛盾但是現在不只針對個案我們要求的要求的你要如何處理這個受害者如何處理對他比較公平還有我們對我們的家屬要如何交代還有我們全國的勞工\n多在權力都在你的手上所以現在我們不是針對個案對面所有的同仁\n都心驚驚心慌慌對不對因為你現在這樣的署長你部長你都一直在回答都沒有明確也沒有解決的方案所以我們希望你要表態你如何加嚴管理你有什麼策略或者未來你怎麼樣去加嚴才不會大家問你有沒有要負責下台\n你要一從發生到現在你一定要有一個作為吧對不對才讓我們全國的大眾認同說你真的去處理有嗎我會做\n你會做,你會做不是用講的啊用講的講,講成一句等等啊,講很等的啊用做得快,就一定要有規劃吧整個部會呢,整個部會是勞動部整個部會啊要求全國的人,我們的部會是帶頭為法這樣子的話,我們希望你要有書面、有規劃、有計劃怎麼去做對我們內部的管理,大家才能去遵守\n這個部分要求還有第二個我們分署內的工作量就是超過大家的負荷所以大家就是很多人的離職剛才有都問了這個部分我們就不多來去講但是臺電經理推打小職員還有女警留場等的連接發生這些也是跟勞動部有關是不是\n這樣子的話是否說我們在反映就是勞動部缺雜有效的防範機制也是為了掩蓋這個真相所以我們覺得你用設立一個匿名的調查但是報偵說裡面還要用私人的信箱這樣子叫匿名嗎?\n所以變成是你要做人看的嘛對不對你要跟大家說要有調查所以大家有沒有被霸凌或有其他的調查你要去解決這個問題你要調查但叫大家匿名又叫大家寫私人的信箱這樣叫做匿名問卷嗎這樣子你覺得是說誰敢去寫這樣子的一個問卷\n所以這個部分我們希望我們要部長要做就要做實的啦不要被人騙這樣啦對大家就不好啦因為大家你要對內對外都要去真正的要有實作才對我們才覺得我們勞動部是真的是我們勞工的信任還有把關\n還有第二個給我一分鐘的時間因為我想要問部長我們目前的移工在臺灣除了解決切工以外因為現在我們移工來臺灣他們解決的什麼行業的切工最多什麼行業移工來臺灣製造業還有呢\n所以說為什麼說解決台灣的缺工?還為什麼我們台灣還有那麼多人失業呢?對不對?如果你台灣有那麼多人失業你為什麼還要引進那麼多移工呢?所以移工進來是害了台灣還是幫助了台灣?\n委員,移工進來當然是對台灣有幫助的對啊,所以說我要跟,讓你說跟全國說移工進來是對台灣有幫助的但是呢,你覺得他對台灣有幫助但是你覺得他的生活還有他的工作環境還有居住環境你覺得合理嗎?合法嗎?\n這是應該要確實移工的生活環境本來就是我們一直致力在改善的致力改善要有確定的改善我們移工每個要進來中介費還有每個服務費他們都在繳我們中小企業每一個月都要繳給我們勞動部的就業安定基金所以呢他們雙方都有繳服務費跟保護費啦但是我們勞動部給他們這樣子的工作環境\n所以他們要不要逃跑要不要離開這個工作崗位如果是你留在這邊工作你要離開嗎所以這個就是我們勞動部不只沒辦法解決我們在地我們的國民的勞工還沒辦法解決外籍勞工所以兩個勞工的在我們台灣都需要你多多關心多多去協助不是用說改善或者是討論\n這個原因對我們來說都是敷衍而已啦希望你要提出真正的規劃讓我們看到你的誠意也真的解決問題所以我們希望是你要解決問題用靠的解決不了啦但是我們要用真正的處理方式因為現在已經發生還沒有發生還沒有新聞知道\n謝謝麥委員 謝謝部長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.725 --> 00:03.087\n謝謝主席有請部長部長好\n\n00:13.953 --> 00:38.540\n辛苦了哈對但是我們還是一樣就是繼續來去問你因為我們看到報告就是剛才我們許委員有問報告裡面說無法證明同人是親身與霸凌相關所以我們真的是這個剛才你也沒有明確的說他你一直在說他是有霸凌的行為但是\n\n00:40.060 --> 00:47.423\n這個親身跟他無關感覺你沒有辦法是明確再去講這一塊但是我們覺得你很矛盾但是現在不只針對個案我們要求的要求的你要如何處理這個受害者如何處理對他比較公平還有我們對我們的家屬要如何交代還有我們全國的勞工\n\n01:07.909 --> 01:16.214\n多在權力都在你的手上所以現在我們不是針對個案對面所有的同仁\n\n01:17.250 --> 01:43.095\n都心驚驚心慌慌對不對因為你現在這樣的署長你部長你都一直在回答都沒有明確也沒有解決的方案所以我們希望你要表態你如何加嚴管理你有什麼策略或者未來你怎麼樣去加嚴才不會大家問你有沒有要負責下台\n\n01:43.775 --> 01:54.218\n你要一從發生到現在你一定要有一個作為吧對不對才讓我們全國的大眾認同說你真的去處理有嗎我會做\n\n02:00.560 --> 02:28.917\n你會做,你會做不是用講的啊用講的講,講成一句等等啊,講很等的啊用做得快,就一定要有規劃吧整個部會呢,整個部會是勞動部整個部會啊要求全國的人,我們的部會是帶頭為法這樣子的話,我們希望你要有書面、有規劃、有計劃怎麼去做對我們內部的管理,大家才能去遵守\n\n02:29.797 --> 02:54.505\n這個部分要求還有第二個我們分署內的工作量就是超過大家的負荷所以大家就是很多人的離職剛才有都問了這個部分我們就不多來去講但是臺電經理推打小職員還有女警留場等的連接發生這些也是跟勞動部有關是不是\n\n02:57.407 --> 03:18.869\n這樣子的話是否說我們在反映就是勞動部缺雜有效的防範機制也是為了掩蓋這個真相所以我們覺得你用設立一個匿名的調查但是報偵說裡面還要用私人的信箱這樣子叫匿名嗎?\n\n03:20.512 --> 03:41.439\n所以變成是你要做人看的嘛對不對你要跟大家說要有調查所以大家有沒有被霸凌或有其他的調查你要去解決這個問題你要調查但叫大家匿名又叫大家寫私人的信箱這樣叫做匿名問卷嗎這樣子你覺得是說誰敢去寫這樣子的一個問卷\n\n03:48.854 --> 03:51.696\n所以這個部分我們希望我們要部長要做就要做實的啦不要被人騙這樣啦對大家就不好啦因為大家你要對內對外都要去真正的要有實作才對我們才覺得我們勞動部是真的是我們勞工的信任還有把關\n\n04:14.293 --> 04:33.923\n還有第二個給我一分鐘的時間因為我想要問部長我們目前的移工在臺灣除了解決切工以外因為現在我們移工來臺灣他們解決的什麼行業的切工最多什麼行業移工來臺灣製造業還有呢\n\n04:47.114 --> 04:54.016\n所以說為什麼說解決台灣的缺工?還為什麼我們台灣還有那麼多人失業呢?對不對?如果你台灣有那麼多人失業你為什麼還要引進那麼多移工呢?所以移工進來是害了台灣還是幫助了台灣?\n\n05:07.585 --> 05:11.768\n委員,移工進來當然是對台灣有幫助的對啊,所以說我要跟,讓你說跟全國說移工進來是對台灣有幫助的但是呢,你覺得他對台灣有幫助但是你覺得他的生活還有他的工作環境還有居住環境你覺得合理嗎?合法嗎?\n\n05:30.427 --> 05:41.796\n這是應該要確實移工的生活環境本來就是我們一直致力在改善的致力改善要有確定的改善我們移工每個要進來中介費還有每個服務費他們都在繳我們中小企業每一個月都要繳給我們勞動部的就業安定基金所以呢他們雙方都有繳服務費跟保護費啦但是我們勞動部給他們這樣子的工作環境\n\n06:00.269 --> 06:08.535\n所以他們要不要逃跑要不要離開這個工作崗位如果是你留在這邊工作你要離開嗎所以這個就是我們勞動部不只沒辦法解決我們在地我們的國民的勞工還沒辦法解決外籍勞工所以兩個勞工的在我們台灣都需要你多多關心多多去協助不是用說改善或者是討論\n\n06:29.149 --> 06:41.177\n這個原因對我們來說都是敷衍而已啦希望你要提出真正的規劃讓我們看到你的誠意也真的解決問題所以我們希望是你要解決問題用靠的解決不了啦但是我們要用真正的處理方式因為現在已經發生還沒有發生還沒有新聞知道\n\n06:53.904 --> 06:54.104\n謝謝麥委員謝謝部長\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.725,"end":3.087,"text":"謝謝主席 有請部長部長好"},{"start":13.953,"end":38.54,"text":"辛苦了哈對但是我們還是一樣就是繼續來去問你因為我們看到報告就是剛才我們許委員有問報告裡面說無法證明同人是親身與霸凌相關所以我們真的是這個剛才你也沒有明確的說他你一直在說他是有霸凌的行為但是"},{"start":40.06,"end":47.423,"text":"這個親身跟他無關感覺你沒有辦法是明確再去講這一塊但是我們覺得你很矛盾但是現在不只針對個案我們要求的要求的你要如何處理這個受害者如何處理對他比較公平還有我們對我們的家屬要如何交代還有我們全國的勞工"},{"start":67.909,"end":76.214,"text":"多在權力都在你的手上所以現在我們不是針對個案對面所有的同仁"},{"start":77.25,"end":103.095,"text":"都心驚驚心慌慌對不對因為你現在這樣的署長你部長你都一直在回答都沒有明確也沒有解決的方案所以我們希望你要表態你如何加嚴管理你有什麼策略或者未來你怎麼樣去加嚴才不會大家問你有沒有要負責下台"},{"start":103.775,"end":114.218,"text":"你要一從發生到現在你一定要有一個作為吧對不對才讓我們全國的大眾認同說你真的去處理有嗎我會做"},{"start":120.56,"end":148.917,"text":"你會做,你會做不是用講的啊用講的講,講成一句等等啊,講很等的啊用做得快,就一定要有規劃吧整個部會呢,整個部會是勞動部整個部會啊要求全國的人,我們的部會是帶頭為法這樣子的話,我們希望你要有書面、有規劃、有計劃怎麼去做對我們內部的管理,大家才能去遵守"},{"start":149.797,"end":174.505,"text":"這個部分要求還有第二個我們分署內的工作量就是超過大家的負荷所以大家就是很多人的離職剛才有都問了這個部分我們就不多來去講但是臺電經理推打小職員還有女警留場等的連接發生這些也是跟勞動部有關是不是"},{"start":177.407,"end":198.869,"text":"這樣子的話是否說我們在反映就是勞動部缺雜有效的防範機制也是為了掩蓋這個真相所以我們覺得你用設立一個匿名的調查但是報偵說裡面還要用私人的信箱這樣子叫匿名嗎?"},{"start":200.512,"end":221.439,"text":"所以變成是你要做人看的嘛對不對你要跟大家說要有調查所以大家有沒有被霸凌或有其他的調查你要去解決這個問題你要調查但叫大家匿名又叫大家寫私人的信箱這樣叫做匿名問卷嗎這樣子你覺得是說誰敢去寫這樣子的一個問卷"},{"start":228.854,"end":231.696,"text":"所以這個部分我們希望我們要部長要做就要做實的啦不要被人騙這樣啦對大家就不好啦因為大家你要對內對外都要去真正的要有實作才對我們才覺得我們勞動部是真的是我們勞工的信任還有把關"},{"start":254.293,"end":273.923,"text":"還有第二個給我一分鐘的時間因為我想要問部長我們目前的移工在臺灣除了解決切工以外因為現在我們移工來臺灣他們解決的什麼行業的切工最多什麼行業移工來臺灣製造業還有呢"},{"start":287.114,"end":294.016,"text":"所以說為什麼說解決台灣的缺工?還為什麼我們台灣還有那麼多人失業呢?對不對?如果你台灣有那麼多人失業你為什麼還要引進那麼多移工呢?所以移工進來是害了台灣還是幫助了台灣?"},{"start":307.585,"end":311.768,"text":"委員,移工進來當然是對台灣有幫助的對啊,所以說我要跟,讓你說跟全國說移工進來是對台灣有幫助的但是呢,你覺得他對台灣有幫助但是你覺得他的生活還有他的工作環境還有居住環境你覺得合理嗎?合法嗎?"},{"start":330.427,"end":341.796,"text":"這是應該要確實移工的生活環境本來就是我們一直致力在改善的致力改善要有確定的改善我們移工每個要進來中介費還有每個服務費他們都在繳我們中小企業每一個月都要繳給我們勞動部的就業安定基金所以呢他們雙方都有繳服務費跟保護費啦但是我們勞動部給他們這樣子的工作環境"},{"start":360.269,"end":368.535,"text":"所以他們要不要逃跑要不要離開這個工作崗位如果是你留在這邊工作你要離開嗎所以這個就是我們勞動部不只沒辦法解決我們在地我們的國民的勞工還沒辦法解決外籍勞工所以兩個勞工的在我們台灣都需要你多多關心多多去協助不是用說改善或者是討論"},{"start":389.149,"end":401.177,"text":"這個原因對我們來說都是敷衍而已啦希望你要提出真正的規劃讓我們看到你的誠意也真的解決問題所以我們希望是你要解決問題用靠的解決不了啦但是我們要用真正的處理方式因為現在已經發生還沒有發生還沒有新聞知道"},{"start":413.904,"end":414.104,"text":"謝謝麥委員 謝謝部長"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1721,"blocks":[["麥委員玉珍：（14時27分）謝謝主席，有請部長。部長好。"],["何部長佩珊：委員好。"],["麥委員玉珍：辛苦了。"],["何部長佩珊：謝謝。"],["麥委員玉珍：我們還是一樣繼續來問你，就像徐委員剛剛問的，我們看到報告裡面說，無法證明同仁的輕生與霸凌相關，剛才你一直在說他有霸凌的行為，但是這個輕生跟他無關，感覺你沒有辦法明確的再去講這一塊，讓人覺得你真的很矛盾。我們現在的要求是，對受害者要如何處理才對他比較公平，還有對家屬要如何交代。全國勞工的權利都在你的手上，所以我們現在不是針對個案，而是內部所有同仁都心驚驚、心慌慌，因為有這樣的署長。部長一直沒有明確的回答，也沒有解決的方案，所以我們希望你要表態：你要如何加嚴管理，你有什麼策略或者未來你怎麼樣去加嚴，大家才不會一直問你有沒有要負責下臺。從發生事情到現在，你一定要有一個作為，才能讓全國民眾認同你真的做了處理，有嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：委員，我會做。"],["麥委員玉珍：你要做，不是用講的，用「講」的──「管，一支長長」啦！用做的比較快，這一定要有規劃嘛！勞動部整個部會原本是來要求全國的人，結果我們的部會帶頭違法！我們希望你要有書面、有規劃、有計畫，怎麼去做內部的管理，這樣大家才能去遵守這個部分的要求。"],["何部長佩珊：謝謝委員。"],["麥委員玉珍：第二個，分署內的工作量超過大家的負荷，所以有很多人離職。剛才很多委員都問了這個部分，我們就不多講。但是台電經理推打小職員，還有女警流產等問題接連發生，這些也都跟勞動部有關，是不是？我們在反映勞動部缺乏有效的防範機制，為了掩蓋真相，你們設立一個匿名的調查，還要用私人的信箱，這樣叫作匿名嗎？所以你們只是要做給人家看而已！你跟大家說要調查有沒有被霸凌，或是有其他的調查，為了解決這個問題，你叫大家用匿名的方式，卻又叫大家用私人的信箱，這樣叫做匿名問卷嗎？你覺得有誰敢去寫這樣的問卷？我們覺得部長如果要做，就要做「實」的，不要騙人！這樣對大家都不好！對內、對外，都要真正去做，要實做，大家才會覺得勞動部真的值得我們勞工的信任，真的能夠去把關。","還有第二個問題，請主席給我一分鐘的時間，因為我想要問部長。目前移工來到臺灣，除了解決缺工問題以外，請問臺灣現在什麼行業缺工最多？"],["何部長佩珊：製造業。"],["麥委員玉珍：還有呢？"],["蔡署長孟良：第二個大概是家庭看護。"],["麥委員玉珍：都說是解決臺灣的缺工，為什麼我們臺灣還有那麼多人失業？如果臺灣有那麼多人失業，我們為什麼還要引進那麼多移工？移工進來是害了臺灣，還是幫助臺灣？"],["何部長佩珊：委員，移工進來當然是對臺灣有幫助。"],["麥委員玉珍：對啊！所以，我要讓你跟全國國人說移工進來是對臺灣有幫助的！"],["何部長佩珊：是的，我們非常感謝。"],["麥委員玉珍：你覺得他對臺灣有幫助，但你認為他的生活，包括他的工作環境，還有居住環境合理嗎？合法嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：確實移工的生活環境，本來就是我們一直致力在改善的。"],["麥委員玉珍：致力改善，要有確定的改善，每個移工進來臺灣，他們都要繳仲介費，還有服務費；我們的中小企業每個月都要繳就業安定基金給勞動部，他們雙方都有繳服務費跟保護費，但是勞動部給他們這樣子的工作環境，所以他們要不要逃跑，要不要離開這個工作崗位？如果是你在這邊工作，你要離開嗎？勞動部不只沒辦法解決我們在地的本國勞工，也沒辦法解決外籍勞工，這兩種勞工在我們臺灣都需要你多多關心，多多去協助，不是用嘴巴說改善或者討論，這樣的言語對我們來說都是敷衍而已！希望你要提出真正的規劃，讓我們看到你的誠意，也才真的能解決問題，希望你用真正的處理方式解決問題，用哭的解決不了。現在事情都已經發生，新聞沒有出來，大家不知道發生，但是你早就知道發生了，所以針對問題解決，你應該早就要有策略了，而不是到我們委員會問你的時候，還一問三不知，沒有任何的作業，沒有任何的規劃，那我們看到的就是對你的失望。希望你對這兩個部分要提出具體的規劃給我們。謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝麥委員，謝謝部長。接續請伍麗華委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":360,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-9","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","林淑芬","王育敏","劉建國","黃秀芳","王正旭","林月琴","邱鎮軍","王育敏","陳瑩","楊曜","涂權吉","盧縣一","廖偉翔","郭國文","楊瓊瓔","黃健豪","徐巧芯","麥玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","洪孟楷","李彥秀","黃國昌","葉元之","邱若華","洪申翰","牛煦庭","羅智強","鄭正鈐","林倩綺","羅廷瑋","張雅琳","林國成","張嘉郡","柯志恩","萬美玲"],"page_start":231,"meetingDate":["2024-11-20"],"gazette_id":"11310201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310201_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請勞動部部長、銓敘部、國防部、內政部警政署、內政部消防署、行政院人事行政總處、考試\n院、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會、教育部及國家科學及技術委員會就「職場霸凌防治與處理作\n業」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"11310201_00012"}}}