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\"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"演\", \"start\": 101.193, \"end\": 101.473, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"唱\", \"start\": 101.473, \"end\": 101.973, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"日\", \"start\": 101.973, \"end\": 102.233, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 102.233, \"end\": 102.473, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 102.473, \"end\": 102.753, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"海\", \"start\": 102.753, \"end\": 103.033, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 103.033, \"end\": 103.854, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"海\", \"start\": 103.854, \"end\": 104.074, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 104.074, \"end\": 104.294, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 104.294, \"end\": 104.494, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 104.494, \"end\": 104.594, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"衛\"}, {\"word\": \"隊\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 104.594, \"end\": 104.634, \"score\": 0.497}, {\"word\": \"軍\"}, {\"word\": \"歌\", 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\"end\": 134.876, \"score\": 0.996}]}, {\"start\": 135.436, \"end\": 160.901, \"text\": \"因為他們過去有一些老兵他們也是跟日本人正面做過戰的或者是他們的遺卷那這些空軍就會覺得在空軍的紀念日814裡面去演奏了這個軍艦也就是日本海上自衛隊的軍歌是非常不妥適的一件行為那這個部分是退將的意見我想我有必要轉達給我們的主委知道\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 135.436, \"end\": 135.636, \"score\": 0.721}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 135.636, \"end\": 136.236, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 136.236, \"end\": 136.476, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 136.476, \"end\": 136.656, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 136.656, \"end\": 136.776, \"score\": 0.689}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 136.776, \"end\": 137.016, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"老\", \"start\": 137.016, \"end\": 137.236, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"兵\", \"start\": 137.236, \"end\": 137.456, \"score\": 0.788}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 137.456, \"end\": 137.736, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 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503.503, \"end\": 504.363, \"score\": 0.764}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"絕\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 504.363, \"end\": 504.924, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"係\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 504.924, \"end\": 505.244, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 505.244, \"end\": 505.425, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"必\", \"start\": 505.425, \"end\": 505.665, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"須\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 505.665, \"end\": 505.885, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 505.885, \"end\": 505.985, \"score\": 0.551}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 505.985, \"end\": 506.145, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 506.145, \"end\": 506.426, \"score\": 0.739}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"源\", \"start\": 506.426, \"end\": 506.746, \"score\": 0.816}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"論\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 506.746, \"end\": 507.307, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 507.307, \"end\": 508.528, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 508.528, \"end\": 508.628, \"score\": 0.805}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 508.628, \"end\": 508.708, \"score\": 0.746}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 508.708, \"end\": 508.888, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 508.888, \"end\": 509.028, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 509.028, \"end\": 509.369, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"未\", \"start\": 509.369, \"end\": 509.709, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 509.709, \"end\": 509.829, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 509.829, \"end\": 510.049, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"持\", \"start\": 510.049, \"end\": 510.55, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"續\"}, {\"word\": \"幫\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 510.55, \"end\": 510.65, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 510.65, \"end\": 511.11, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"爭\"}, {\"word\": \"取\", \"start\": 511.11, \"end\": 512.292, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"漲\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 512.292, \"end\": 512.432, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 512.432, \"end\": 512.632, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 512.632, \"end\": 512.792, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 512.792, \"end\": 512.812, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 512.812, \"end\": 512.832, \"score\": 0.018}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,109 --> 00:00:01,753\n主席我們請嚴主委請嚴主委\n\n2\n00:00:09,594 --> 00:00:31,527\n主委好首先要跟您討論前一陣子大概在8月左右的時候我們接到了非常多退將的抗議那就是在今年8月我們的嘉義空軍基地開放結果三軍一隊他們演奏的是日本自衛隊的進行曲軍艦請問我們這個嚴主委知道這件事情嗎\n\n3\n00:00:34,909 --> 00:00:36,830\n那您覺得這樣子的一個過程是妥適的嗎那您知道軍艦這首歌的來源是什麼樣的嗎\n\n4\n00:01:00,655 --> 00:01:18,445\n他是日本上海自衛隊的軍歌那外界會有這麼大的反應在於呢嘉義基地開放是為了慶祝八一四的空軍節這我想你應該很清楚而這個節日呢就是紀念空軍第四驅逐機大隊大隊長高志航\n\n5\n00:01:19,045 --> 00:01:44,854\n他在1937年的8月14號的松戶會戰裡面擊落日本海軍航空隊的96式的陸攻轟炸機目前駐守在嘉義基地的空軍四聯隊正好就是高智航當年所待的單位結果我們在紀念這個先賢先烈的日子在他的駐守地演唱日本上海的海上的自衛隊的軍歌您覺得這樣合適嗎\n\n6\n00:01:47,515 --> 00:02:14,876\n那我覺得如果有這個由來演奏這個軍曲是不適合的是不適合的所以大家都會覺得說那我們的這個退伍的軍人比方他去參加大陸的這個陸珠海航展那要被人家提議要砍越退縫可是我們台灣呢在自己的基地裡面去播放自衛隊的歌又該當何罪所以要跟您反映有非常多的退將為此感到非常憤怒\n\n7\n00:02:15,436 --> 00:02:40,901\n因為他們過去有一些老兵他們也是跟日本人正面做過戰的或者是他們的遺卷那這些空軍就會覺得在空軍的紀念日814裡面去演奏了這個軍艦也就是日本海上自衛隊的軍歌是非常不妥適的一件行為那這個部分是退將的意見我想我有必要轉達給我們的主委知道\n\n8\n00:02:42,662 --> 00:02:51,872\n第2個問題有關於勞動部的標準請問您知道多少錢月薪算是所謂的低薪嗎?\n\n9\n00:02:58,564 --> 00:03:22,283\n沒關係我直接告訴您這個勞動部長何佩珊他先前有說勞動部根據這個OECD的定義呢三萬一千元以下就算是低薪可是呢主委我們看一下在親近農場徵才的薪資範圍有好幾個值缺他的月薪範圍有包含到低薪的部分\n\n10\n00:03:23,044 --> 00:03:48,734\n比方說觀光行政組的行政助理他就寫到兩萬九到四萬一千八百八十五那他呢其實如果你的起薪是給到兩萬九的話是符合所謂的低薪西餐的三廚也是一樣最低薪資兩萬九櫃台的服務員最低薪資兩萬八千五百九十中餐廳的餐廚最低薪是兩萬九千元\n\n11\n00:03:49,514 --> 00:04:15,915\n所以這個就是有低心話的問題另外除了清靜農場以外還有這個福壽山的農場也一樣喔防務員的薪水甚至只寫了28280以上餐廳服務員28280以上可是您知道嗎卓榮泰院長在10月底的時候拍板說中央的約聘僱的月薪要是31449起跳\n\n12\n00:04:18,257 --> 00:04:31,707\n所以他講中央政府約聘僱及勞務承攬基層員工月薪應該要高達最低工資的1.1倍也就是31449元請問包含清淨農場跟這個福壽山農場的這一些月薪底薪開到28000或29000的部分請問退府會要如何進行檢討請說\n\n13\n00:04:47,398 --> 00:05:13,715\n委員好我是事業處處長楊長正跟委員報告我們當然是這樣子公告是他的所謂所謂的基本薪資但是因為我們山高山我們所有農場他服務性質不一樣他裡面的包含了很多績效獎金盈餘獎金我沒有把它算在裡面去最主要原因在這事實上我們經過統計我們平地農場的薪資水準已經達到四萬三千元了我們山高山農場\n\n14\n00:05:15,417 --> 00:05:36,056\n所以你聘他兩萬八然後你最後的薪水給他四萬那你為什麼要用獎金的制度而不是直接在他的薪水裡面給予呢因為這會牽涉到很多他後續的保障的問題獎金這個事情呢當然就你發了獎金可是我們希望是在他的薪水裡面有實質的保障\n\n15\n00:05:36,696 --> 00:05:55,689\n因為很多的勞工也都碰到一樣的問題在公司裡面哎呀說他整個月薪水零了五萬但實際上他的真正的薪水只有兩萬多那這樣的話包含很多包含勞健保勞退等等的這個都會有一些沒有辦法彌補的情況就都會比較少\n\n16\n00:05:56,149 --> 00:06:12,801\n所以我要問的問題是既然卓院長已經講了中央約聘僱的薪資最起碼要31449起跳我們退輔會是不是也應該要配合卓院長的政策在最低薪資的部分要寫到31449\n\n17\n00:06:14,582 --> 00:06:26,909\n那你獎金或許發少一點最後的結果是一樣的但是要根據中央的政策來約聘僱的月薪最起碼要是31449我不曉得主委您怎麼看\n\n18\n00:06:27,911 --> 00:06:50,062\n包括我們明年114年會全面做檢討我認為是非常需要做檢討的最後我要講一下這個有關於我們退府會照顧很多這個長照的公共化資源的計畫裡面的質詢率過低的情形那包含我現在所列出的質詢率很多都不到一半而已\n\n19\n00:06:50,522 --> 00:07:02,977\n但我今天要特別談的主要是在這些榮院的部分有很多的分院有短處的情形那包含是我們的埔里分院跟屏東榮總這幾年的營運狀況並不是很好\n\n20\n00:07:06,201 --> 00:07:27,556\n那我今天呢因為時間有限要特別請教的是在這種營運短促的情況之下那今年本來要說要漲14%的電價後來醫療院所是動漲那可是明年又不一定如果接下來漲了電費的話這些分院的營運會不會出現更嚴峻的狀況請說\n\n21\n00:07:32,430 --> 00:07:53,864\n委員好我是救疫處處長劉俊正跟委員報告目前我們的那個用電度在今年比去年只增加了3%左右那事實上是因為我們的門診跟住院的人次都增加了3.9%增加很正常增加很正常但我問的問題不是這個我問題的是今年是醫療院所動長14%的電費\n\n22\n00:07:55,905 --> 00:08:17,541\n那如果你們以現在目前的營運績效明年不見得動長那加了14%的電費之後那你們整體的營運會不會受到影響目前我們算出來整個那個電費的佔率是1.45%那符合這個衛福部他所提到的要在2-3%左右的成本所以目前是在衛福部的規範之內是符合他的比例\n\n23\n00:08:18,297 --> 00:08:32,832\n所以你們認為說就算是現在要貼14%的電價也沒有關係是嗎?絕對有關係我們還是必須要去做一個開源結論的動作所以我希望未來我們也持續幫大家爭取說電費動漲的部分好嗎?好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n109\t1753\t主席我們請嚴主委請嚴主委\n9594\t31527\t主委好首先要跟您討論前一陣子大概在8月左右的時候我們接到了非常多退將的抗議那就是在今年8月我們的嘉義空軍基地開放結果三軍一隊他們演奏的是日本自衛隊的進行曲軍艦請問我們這個嚴主委知道這件事情嗎\n34909\t36830\t那您覺得這樣子的一個過程是妥適的嗎那您知道軍艦這首歌的來源是什麼樣的嗎\n60655\t78445\t他是日本上海自衛隊的軍歌那外界會有這麼大的反應在於呢嘉義基地開放是為了慶祝八一四的空軍節這我想你應該很清楚而這個節日呢就是紀念空軍第四驅逐機大隊大隊長高志航\n79045\t104854\t他在1937年的8月14號的松戶會戰裡面擊落日本海軍航空隊的96式的陸攻轟炸機目前駐守在嘉義基地的空軍四聯隊正好就是高智航當年所待的單位結果我們在紀念這個先賢先烈的日子在他的駐守地演唱日本上海的海上的自衛隊的軍歌您覺得這樣合適嗎\n107515\t134876\t那我覺得如果有這個由來演奏這個軍曲是不適合的是不適合的所以大家都會覺得說那我們的這個退伍的軍人比方他去參加大陸的這個陸珠海航展那要被人家提議要砍越退縫可是我們台灣呢在自己的基地裡面去播放自衛隊的歌又該當何罪所以要跟您反映有非常多的退將為此感到非常憤怒\n135436\t160901\t因為他們過去有一些老兵他們也是跟日本人正面做過戰的或者是他們的遺卷那這些空軍就會覺得在空軍的紀念日814裡面去演奏了這個軍艦也就是日本海上自衛隊的軍歌是非常不妥適的一件行為那這個部分是退將的意見我想我有必要轉達給我們的主委知道\n162662\t171872\t第2個問題有關於勞動部的標準請問您知道多少錢月薪算是所謂的低薪嗎?\n178564\t202283\t沒關係我直接告訴您這個勞動部長何佩珊他先前有說勞動部根據這個OECD的定義呢三萬一千元以下就算是低薪可是呢主委我們看一下在親近農場徵才的薪資範圍有好幾個值缺他的月薪範圍有包含到低薪的部分\n203044\t228734\t比方說觀光行政組的行政助理他就寫到兩萬九到四萬一千八百八十五那他呢其實如果你的起薪是給到兩萬九的話是符合所謂的低薪西餐的三廚也是一樣最低薪資兩萬九櫃台的服務員最低薪資兩萬八千五百九十中餐廳的餐廚最低薪是兩萬九千元\n229514\t255915\t所以這個就是有低心話的問題另外除了清靜農場以外還有這個福壽山的農場也一樣喔防務員的薪水甚至只寫了28280以上餐廳服務員28280以上可是您知道嗎卓榮泰院長在10月底的時候拍板說中央的約聘僱的月薪要是31449起跳\n258257\t271707\t所以他講中央政府約聘僱及勞務承攬基層員工月薪應該要高達最低工資的1.1倍也就是31449元請問包含清淨農場跟這個福壽山農場的這一些月薪底薪開到28000或29000的部分請問退府會要如何進行檢討請說\n287398\t313715\t委員好我是事業處處長楊長正跟委員報告我們當然是這樣子公告是他的所謂所謂的基本薪資但是因為我們山高山我們所有農場他服務性質不一樣他裡面的包含了很多績效獎金盈餘獎金我沒有把它算在裡面去最主要原因在這事實上我們經過統計我們平地農場的薪資水準已經達到四萬三千元了我們山高山農場\n315417\t336056\t所以你聘他兩萬八然後你最後的薪水給他四萬那你為什麼要用獎金的制度而不是直接在他的薪水裡面給予呢因為這會牽涉到很多他後續的保障的問題獎金這個事情呢當然就你發了獎金可是我們希望是在他的薪水裡面有實質的保障\n336696\t355689\t因為很多的勞工也都碰到一樣的問題在公司裡面 哎呀說他整個月薪水零了五萬但實際上他的真正的薪水只有兩萬多那這樣的話包含很多包含勞健保勞退等等的這個都會有一些沒有辦法彌補的情況就都會比較少\n356149\t372801\t所以我要問的問題是既然卓院長已經講了中央約聘僱的薪資最起碼要31449起跳我們退輔會是不是也應該要配合卓院長的政策在最低薪資的部分要寫到31449\n374582\t386909\t那你獎金或許發少一點最後的結果是一樣的但是要根據中央的政策來約聘僱的月薪最起碼要是31449我不曉得主委您怎麼看\n387911\t410062\t包括我們明年114年會全面做檢討我認為是非常需要做檢討的最後我要講一下這個有關於我們退府會照顧很多這個長照的公共化資源的計畫裡面的質詢率過低的情形那包含我現在所列出的質詢率很多都不到一半而已\n410522\t422977\t但我今天要特別談的主要是在這些榮院的部分有很多的分院有短處的情形那包含是我們的埔里分院跟屏東榮總這幾年的營運狀況並不是很好\n426201\t447556\t那我今天呢因為時間有限要特別請教的是在這種營運短促的情況之下那今年本來要說要漲14%的電價後來醫療院所是動漲那可是明年又不一定如果接下來漲了電費的話這些分院的營運會不會出現更嚴峻的狀況請說\n452430\t473864\t委員好我是救疫處處長劉俊正跟委員報告目前我們的那個用電度在今年比去年只增加了3%左右那事實上是因為我們的門診跟住院的人次都增加了3.9%增加很正常增加很正常但我問的問題不是這個我問題的是今年是醫療院所動長14%的電費\n475905\t497541\t那如果你們以現在目前的營運績效明年不見得動長那加了14%的電費之後那你們整體的營運會不會受到影響目前我們算出來整個那個電費的佔率是1.45%那符合這個衛福部他所提到的要在2-3%左右的成本所以目前是在衛福部的規範之內是符合他的比例\n498297\t512832\t所以你們認為說就算是現在要貼14%的電價也沒有關係是嗎?絕對有關係我們還是必須要去做一個開源結論的動作所以我希望未來我們也持續幫大家爭取說電費動漲的部分好嗎?好謝謝\n","txt":"主席我們請嚴主委請嚴主委\n主委好首先要跟您討論前一陣子大概在8月左右的時候我們接到了非常多退將的抗議那就是在今年8月我們的嘉義空軍基地開放結果三軍一隊他們演奏的是日本自衛隊的進行曲軍艦請問我們這個嚴主委知道這件事情嗎\n那您覺得這樣子的一個過程是妥適的嗎那您知道軍艦這首歌的來源是什麼樣的嗎\n他是日本上海自衛隊的軍歌那外界會有這麼大的反應在於呢嘉義基地開放是為了慶祝八一四的空軍節這我想你應該很清楚而這個節日呢就是紀念空軍第四驅逐機大隊大隊長高志航\n他在1937年的8月14號的松戶會戰裡面擊落日本海軍航空隊的96式的陸攻轟炸機目前駐守在嘉義基地的空軍四聯隊正好就是高智航當年所待的單位結果我們在紀念這個先賢先烈的日子在他的駐守地演唱日本上海的海上的自衛隊的軍歌您覺得這樣合適嗎\n那我覺得如果有這個由來演奏這個軍曲是不適合的是不適合的所以大家都會覺得說那我們的這個退伍的軍人比方他去參加大陸的這個陸珠海航展那要被人家提議要砍越退縫可是我們台灣呢在自己的基地裡面去播放自衛隊的歌又該當何罪所以要跟您反映有非常多的退將為此感到非常憤怒\n因為他們過去有一些老兵他們也是跟日本人正面做過戰的或者是他們的遺卷那這些空軍就會覺得在空軍的紀念日814裡面去演奏了這個軍艦也就是日本海上自衛隊的軍歌是非常不妥適的一件行為那這個部分是退將的意見我想我有必要轉達給我們的主委知道\n第2個問題有關於勞動部的標準請問您知道多少錢月薪算是所謂的低薪嗎?\n沒關係我直接告訴您這個勞動部長何佩珊他先前有說勞動部根據這個OECD的定義呢三萬一千元以下就算是低薪可是呢主委我們看一下在親近農場徵才的薪資範圍有好幾個值缺他的月薪範圍有包含到低薪的部分\n比方說觀光行政組的行政助理他就寫到兩萬九到四萬一千八百八十五那他呢其實如果你的起薪是給到兩萬九的話是符合所謂的低薪西餐的三廚也是一樣最低薪資兩萬九櫃台的服務員最低薪資兩萬八千五百九十中餐廳的餐廚最低薪是兩萬九千元\n所以這個就是有低心話的問題另外除了清靜農場以外還有這個福壽山的農場也一樣喔防務員的薪水甚至只寫了28280以上餐廳服務員28280以上可是您知道嗎卓榮泰院長在10月底的時候拍板說中央的約聘僱的月薪要是31449起跳\n所以他講中央政府約聘僱及勞務承攬基層員工月薪應該要高達最低工資的1.1倍也就是31449元請問包含清淨農場跟這個福壽山農場的這一些月薪底薪開到28000或29000的部分請問退府會要如何進行檢討請說\n委員好我是事業處處長楊長正跟委員報告我們當然是這樣子公告是他的所謂所謂的基本薪資但是因為我們山高山我們所有農場他服務性質不一樣他裡面的包含了很多績效獎金盈餘獎金我沒有把它算在裡面去最主要原因在這事實上我們經過統計我們平地農場的薪資水準已經達到四萬三千元了我們山高山農場\n所以你聘他兩萬八然後你最後的薪水給他四萬那你為什麼要用獎金的制度而不是直接在他的薪水裡面給予呢因為這會牽涉到很多他後續的保障的問題獎金這個事情呢當然就你發了獎金可是我們希望是在他的薪水裡面有實質的保障\n因為很多的勞工也都碰到一樣的問題在公司裡面 哎呀說他整個月薪水零了五萬但實際上他的真正的薪水只有兩萬多那這樣的話包含很多包含勞健保勞退等等的這個都會有一些沒有辦法彌補的情況就都會比較少\n所以我要問的問題是既然卓院長已經講了中央約聘僱的薪資最起碼要31449起跳我們退輔會是不是也應該要配合卓院長的政策在最低薪資的部分要寫到31449\n那你獎金或許發少一點最後的結果是一樣的但是要根據中央的政策來約聘僱的月薪最起碼要是31449我不曉得主委您怎麼看\n包括我們明年114年會全面做檢討我認為是非常需要做檢討的最後我要講一下這個有關於我們退府會照顧很多這個長照的公共化資源的計畫裡面的質詢率過低的情形那包含我現在所列出的質詢率很多都不到一半而已\n但我今天要特別談的主要是在這些榮院的部分有很多的分院有短處的情形那包含是我們的埔里分院跟屏東榮總這幾年的營運狀況並不是很好\n那我今天呢因為時間有限要特別請教的是在這種營運短促的情況之下那今年本來要說要漲14%的電價後來醫療院所是動漲那可是明年又不一定如果接下來漲了電費的話這些分院的營運會不會出現更嚴峻的狀況請說\n委員好我是救疫處處長劉俊正跟委員報告目前我們的那個用電度在今年比去年只增加了3%左右那事實上是因為我們的門診跟住院的人次都增加了3.9%增加很正常增加很正常但我問的問題不是這個我問題的是今年是醫療院所動長14%的電費\n那如果你們以現在目前的營運績效明年不見得動長那加了14%的電費之後那你們整體的營運會不會受到影響目前我們算出來整個那個電費的佔率是1.45%那符合這個衛福部他所提到的要在2-3%左右的成本所以目前是在衛福部的規範之內是符合他的比例\n所以你們認為說就算是現在要貼14%的電價也沒有關係是嗎?絕對有關係我們還是必須要去做一個開源結論的動作所以我希望未來我們也持續幫大家爭取說電費動漲的部分好嗎?好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.109 --> 00:01.753\n主席我們請嚴主委請嚴主委\n\n00:09.594 --> 00:31.527\n主委好首先要跟您討論前一陣子大概在8月左右的時候我們接到了非常多退將的抗議那就是在今年8月我們的嘉義空軍基地開放結果三軍一隊他們演奏的是日本自衛隊的進行曲軍艦請問我們這個嚴主委知道這件事情嗎\n\n00:34.909 --> 00:36.830\n那您覺得這樣子的一個過程是妥適的嗎那您知道軍艦這首歌的來源是什麼樣的嗎\n\n01:00.655 --> 01:18.445\n他是日本上海自衛隊的軍歌那外界會有這麼大的反應在於呢嘉義基地開放是為了慶祝八一四的空軍節這我想你應該很清楚而這個節日呢就是紀念空軍第四驅逐機大隊大隊長高志航\n\n01:19.045 --> 01:44.854\n他在1937年的8月14號的松戶會戰裡面擊落日本海軍航空隊的96式的陸攻轟炸機目前駐守在嘉義基地的空軍四聯隊正好就是高智航當年所待的單位結果我們在紀念這個先賢先烈的日子在他的駐守地演唱日本上海的海上的自衛隊的軍歌您覺得這樣合適嗎\n\n01:47.515 --> 02:14.876\n那我覺得如果有這個由來演奏這個軍曲是不適合的是不適合的所以大家都會覺得說那我們的這個退伍的軍人比方他去參加大陸的這個陸珠海航展那要被人家提議要砍越退縫可是我們台灣呢在自己的基地裡面去播放自衛隊的歌又該當何罪所以要跟您反映有非常多的退將為此感到非常憤怒\n\n02:15.436 --> 02:40.901\n因為他們過去有一些老兵他們也是跟日本人正面做過戰的或者是他們的遺卷那這些空軍就會覺得在空軍的紀念日814裡面去演奏了這個軍艦也就是日本海上自衛隊的軍歌是非常不妥適的一件行為那這個部分是退將的意見我想我有必要轉達給我們的主委知道\n\n02:42.662 --> 02:51.872\n第2個問題有關於勞動部的標準請問您知道多少錢月薪算是所謂的低薪嗎?\n\n02:58.564 --> 03:22.283\n沒關係我直接告訴您這個勞動部長何佩珊他先前有說勞動部根據這個OECD的定義呢三萬一千元以下就算是低薪可是呢主委我們看一下在親近農場徵才的薪資範圍有好幾個值缺他的月薪範圍有包含到低薪的部分\n\n03:23.044 --> 03:48.734\n比方說觀光行政組的行政助理他就寫到兩萬九到四萬一千八百八十五那他呢其實如果你的起薪是給到兩萬九的話是符合所謂的低薪西餐的三廚也是一樣最低薪資兩萬九櫃台的服務員最低薪資兩萬八千五百九十中餐廳的餐廚最低薪是兩萬九千元\n\n03:49.514 --> 04:15.915\n所以這個就是有低心話的問題另外除了清靜農場以外還有這個福壽山的農場也一樣喔防務員的薪水甚至只寫了28280以上餐廳服務員28280以上可是您知道嗎卓榮泰院長在10月底的時候拍板說中央的約聘僱的月薪要是31449起跳\n\n04:18.257 --> 04:31.707\n所以他講中央政府約聘僱及勞務承攬基層員工月薪應該要高達最低工資的1.1倍也就是31449元請問包含清淨農場跟這個福壽山農場的這一些月薪底薪開到28000或29000的部分請問退府會要如何進行檢討請說\n\n04:47.398 --> 05:13.715\n委員好我是事業處處長楊長正跟委員報告我們當然是這樣子公告是他的所謂所謂的基本薪資但是因為我們山高山我們所有農場他服務性質不一樣他裡面的包含了很多績效獎金盈餘獎金我沒有把它算在裡面去最主要原因在這事實上我們經過統計我們平地農場的薪資水準已經達到四萬三千元了我們山高山農場\n\n05:15.417 --> 05:36.056\n所以你聘他兩萬八然後你最後的薪水給他四萬那你為什麼要用獎金的制度而不是直接在他的薪水裡面給予呢因為這會牽涉到很多他後續的保障的問題獎金這個事情呢當然就你發了獎金可是我們希望是在他的薪水裡面有實質的保障\n\n05:36.696 --> 05:55.689\n因為很多的勞工也都碰到一樣的問題在公司裡面哎呀說他整個月薪水零了五萬但實際上他的真正的薪水只有兩萬多那這樣的話包含很多包含勞健保勞退等等的這個都會有一些沒有辦法彌補的情況就都會比較少\n\n05:56.149 --> 06:12.801\n所以我要問的問題是既然卓院長已經講了中央約聘僱的薪資最起碼要31449起跳我們退輔會是不是也應該要配合卓院長的政策在最低薪資的部分要寫到31449\n\n06:14.582 --> 06:26.909\n那你獎金或許發少一點最後的結果是一樣的但是要根據中央的政策來約聘僱的月薪最起碼要是31449我不曉得主委您怎麼看\n\n06:27.911 --> 06:50.062\n包括我們明年114年會全面做檢討我認為是非常需要做檢討的最後我要講一下這個有關於我們退府會照顧很多這個長照的公共化資源的計畫裡面的質詢率過低的情形那包含我現在所列出的質詢率很多都不到一半而已\n\n06:50.522 --> 07:02.977\n但我今天要特別談的主要是在這些榮院的部分有很多的分院有短處的情形那包含是我們的埔里分院跟屏東榮總這幾年的營運狀況並不是很好\n\n07:06.201 --> 07:27.556\n那我今天呢因為時間有限要特別請教的是在這種營運短促的情況之下那今年本來要說要漲14%的電價後來醫療院所是動漲那可是明年又不一定如果接下來漲了電費的話這些分院的營運會不會出現更嚴峻的狀況請說\n\n07:32.430 --> 07:53.864\n委員好我是救疫處處長劉俊正跟委員報告目前我們的那個用電度在今年比去年只增加了3%左右那事實上是因為我們的門診跟住院的人次都增加了3.9%增加很正常增加很正常但我問的問題不是這個我問題的是今年是醫療院所動長14%的電費\n\n07:55.905 --> 08:17.541\n那如果你們以現在目前的營運績效明年不見得動長那加了14%的電費之後那你們整體的營運會不會受到影響目前我們算出來整個那個電費的佔率是1.45%那符合這個衛福部他所提到的要在2-3%左右的成本所以目前是在衛福部的規範之內是符合他的比例\n\n08:18.297 --> 08:32.832\n所以你們認為說就算是現在要貼14%的電價也沒有關係是嗎?絕對有關係我們還是必須要去做一個開源結論的動作所以我希望未來我們也持續幫大家爭取說電費動漲的部分好嗎?好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.109,"end":1.753,"text":"主席我們請嚴主委請嚴主委"},{"start":9.594,"end":31.527,"text":"主委好首先要跟您討論前一陣子大概在8月左右的時候我們接到了非常多退將的抗議那就是在今年8月我們的嘉義空軍基地開放結果三軍一隊他們演奏的是日本自衛隊的進行曲軍艦請問我們這個嚴主委知道這件事情嗎"},{"start":34.909,"end":36.83,"text":"那您覺得這樣子的一個過程是妥適的嗎那您知道軍艦這首歌的來源是什麼樣的嗎"},{"start":60.655,"end":78.445,"text":"他是日本上海自衛隊的軍歌那外界會有這麼大的反應在於呢嘉義基地開放是為了慶祝八一四的空軍節這我想你應該很清楚而這個節日呢就是紀念空軍第四驅逐機大隊大隊長高志航"},{"start":79.045,"end":104.854,"text":"他在1937年的8月14號的松戶會戰裡面擊落日本海軍航空隊的96式的陸攻轟炸機目前駐守在嘉義基地的空軍四聯隊正好就是高智航當年所待的單位結果我們在紀念這個先賢先烈的日子在他的駐守地演唱日本上海的海上的自衛隊的軍歌您覺得這樣合適嗎"},{"start":107.515,"end":134.876,"text":"那我覺得如果有這個由來演奏這個軍曲是不適合的是不適合的所以大家都會覺得說那我們的這個退伍的軍人比方他去參加大陸的這個陸珠海航展那要被人家提議要砍越退縫可是我們台灣呢在自己的基地裡面去播放自衛隊的歌又該當何罪所以要跟您反映有非常多的退將為此感到非常憤怒"},{"start":135.436,"end":160.901,"text":"因為他們過去有一些老兵他們也是跟日本人正面做過戰的或者是他們的遺卷那這些空軍就會覺得在空軍的紀念日814裡面去演奏了這個軍艦也就是日本海上自衛隊的軍歌是非常不妥適的一件行為那這個部分是退將的意見我想我有必要轉達給我們的主委知道"},{"start":162.662,"end":171.872,"text":"第2個問題有關於勞動部的標準請問您知道多少錢月薪算是所謂的低薪嗎?"},{"start":178.564,"end":202.283,"text":"沒關係我直接告訴您這個勞動部長何佩珊他先前有說勞動部根據這個OECD的定義呢三萬一千元以下就算是低薪可是呢主委我們看一下在親近農場徵才的薪資範圍有好幾個值缺他的月薪範圍有包含到低薪的部分"},{"start":203.044,"end":228.734,"text":"比方說觀光行政組的行政助理他就寫到兩萬九到四萬一千八百八十五那他呢其實如果你的起薪是給到兩萬九的話是符合所謂的低薪西餐的三廚也是一樣最低薪資兩萬九櫃台的服務員最低薪資兩萬八千五百九十中餐廳的餐廚最低薪是兩萬九千元"},{"start":229.514,"end":255.915,"text":"所以這個就是有低心話的問題另外除了清靜農場以外還有這個福壽山的農場也一樣喔防務員的薪水甚至只寫了28280以上餐廳服務員28280以上可是您知道嗎卓榮泰院長在10月底的時候拍板說中央的約聘僱的月薪要是31449起跳"},{"start":258.257,"end":271.707,"text":"所以他講中央政府約聘僱及勞務承攬基層員工月薪應該要高達最低工資的1.1倍也就是31449元請問包含清淨農場跟這個福壽山農場的這一些月薪底薪開到28000或29000的部分請問退府會要如何進行檢討請說"},{"start":287.398,"end":313.715,"text":"委員好我是事業處處長楊長正跟委員報告我們當然是這樣子公告是他的所謂所謂的基本薪資但是因為我們山高山我們所有農場他服務性質不一樣他裡面的包含了很多績效獎金盈餘獎金我沒有把它算在裡面去最主要原因在這事實上我們經過統計我們平地農場的薪資水準已經達到四萬三千元了我們山高山農場"},{"start":315.417,"end":336.056,"text":"所以你聘他兩萬八然後你最後的薪水給他四萬那你為什麼要用獎金的制度而不是直接在他的薪水裡面給予呢因為這會牽涉到很多他後續的保障的問題獎金這個事情呢當然就你發了獎金可是我們希望是在他的薪水裡面有實質的保障"},{"start":336.696,"end":355.689,"text":"因為很多的勞工也都碰到一樣的問題在公司裡面 哎呀說他整個月薪水零了五萬但實際上他的真正的薪水只有兩萬多那這樣的話包含很多包含勞健保勞退等等的這個都會有一些沒有辦法彌補的情況就都會比較少"},{"start":356.149,"end":372.801,"text":"所以我要問的問題是既然卓院長已經講了中央約聘僱的薪資最起碼要31449起跳我們退輔會是不是也應該要配合卓院長的政策在最低薪資的部分要寫到31449"},{"start":374.582,"end":386.909,"text":"那你獎金或許發少一點最後的結果是一樣的但是要根據中央的政策來約聘僱的月薪最起碼要是31449我不曉得主委您怎麼看"},{"start":387.911,"end":410.062,"text":"包括我們明年114年會全面做檢討我認為是非常需要做檢討的最後我要講一下這個有關於我們退府會照顧很多這個長照的公共化資源的計畫裡面的質詢率過低的情形那包含我現在所列出的質詢率很多都不到一半而已"},{"start":410.522,"end":422.977,"text":"但我今天要特別談的主要是在這些榮院的部分有很多的分院有短處的情形那包含是我們的埔里分院跟屏東榮總這幾年的營運狀況並不是很好"},{"start":426.201,"end":447.556,"text":"那我今天呢因為時間有限要特別請教的是在這種營運短促的情況之下那今年本來要說要漲14%的電價後來醫療院所是動漲那可是明年又不一定如果接下來漲了電費的話這些分院的營運會不會出現更嚴峻的狀況請說"},{"start":452.43,"end":473.864,"text":"委員好我是救疫處處長劉俊正跟委員報告目前我們的那個用電度在今年比去年只增加了3%左右那事實上是因為我們的門診跟住院的人次都增加了3.9%增加很正常增加很正常但我問的問題不是這個我問題的是今年是醫療院所動長14%的電費"},{"start":475.905,"end":497.541,"text":"那如果你們以現在目前的營運績效明年不見得動長那加了14%的電費之後那你們整體的營運會不會受到影響目前我們算出來整個那個電費的佔率是1.45%那符合這個衛福部他所提到的要在2-3%左右的成本所以目前是在衛福部的規範之內是符合他的比例"},{"start":498.297,"end":512.832,"text":"所以你們認為說就算是現在要貼14%的電價也沒有關係是嗎?絕對有關係我們還是必須要去做一個開源結論的動作所以我希望未來我們也持續幫大家爭取說電費動漲的部分好嗎?好謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":174,"blocks":[["徐委員巧芯：（9時29分）謝謝主席。請嚴主委。"],["主席：請嚴主委。"],["嚴主任委員德發：徐委員好。"],["徐委員巧芯：主委好。首先要跟您討論，前一陣子、大概在8月左右，我們接到非常多退將抗議，因為今年8月嘉義空軍基地開放，結果三軍儀隊表演時，演奏的是日本海上自衛隊進行曲──軍艦，請問嚴主委知道這件事情嗎？"],["嚴主任委員德發：我在媒體上有看到這則新聞。"],["徐委員巧芯：您覺得這樣妥適嗎？"],["嚴主任委員德發：我的感覺是三軍儀隊近年在表演節目上不斷地做調整跟多元化的改變，比方雙十國慶他們在府前廣場的表演都有做一些調整。"],["徐委員巧芯：您知道軍艦這首歌的來源是什麼嗎？"],["嚴主任委員德發：這個我不清楚。"],["徐委員巧芯：這是日本海上自衛隊的軍歌，外界會有這麼大的反應在於，嘉義基地開放是為了慶祝814空軍節，這點主委應該很清楚。這個節日是為了紀念空軍驅逐機第四大隊大隊長高志航，在1937年8月14日淞滬會戰擊落日本海軍航空隊九六式陸攻轟炸機。目前駐守在嘉義基地的空軍四聯隊，正好就是高志航當年所待的單位，結果我們在紀念先賢先烈的日子裡，在其駐守地演奏日本海上自衛隊軍歌，您覺得這樣合適嗎？"],["嚴主任委員德發：如果有這個由來的話，演奏該軍曲是不適合的。"],["徐委員巧芯：是不適合的？退伍軍人去參加大陸珠海航展，結果被人家提議砍月退俸；可是在我們臺灣，在自己的基地播放自衛隊軍歌又該當何罪？所以我要跟您反映，有非常多退將或遺眷為此感到非常憤怒！因為他們過去跟一些老兵與日本人正面作戰過的，所以他們覺得在空軍814紀念日這天演奏日本海上自衛隊軍歌─軍艦，是非常不妥適的行為。這部分是退將的意見，我想我有必要轉達給主委知道。"],["嚴主任委員德發：謝謝委員。"],["徐委員巧芯：接下來第二個問題我要問的是有關於勞動部的標準，請問您知道月薪多少算是低薪嗎？"],["嚴主任委員德發：事業處……"],["徐委員巧芯：沒關係，我直接告訴您，勞動部長何佩珊先前說，根據OECD定義，3萬1,000元以下就算低薪。可是我們看清境農場徵才的薪資範圍發現，裡面有好幾個職缺的月薪就是屬於低薪，比方觀光行政組的行政助理2萬9,000元到4萬1,885元，如果起薪只給2萬9,000元的話，是符合所謂的低薪；西餐的三廚也是一樣，最低薪資2萬9,000元；櫃檯服務員最低薪資2萬8,590元；中餐廳三廚最低薪是2萬9,000元，所以就是有低薪化的問題。除了清境農場以外，福壽山農場也一樣，房務員薪水甚至只寫了28,280元以上；餐廳服務員28,280元以上。","可是您知道嗎？卓榮泰院長在10月底拍板說，中央約聘僱的月薪要31,449元起跳，他說中央政府約聘僱及勞務承攬基層員工月薪應該要達最低工資的1.1倍，也就是3萬1,449元。對於清境農場跟福壽山農場月薪、底薪開2萬8,000元或2萬9,000元，請問退輔會要如何進行檢討？"],["嚴主任委員德發：報告委員，我請事業處處長跟您說明。"],["徐委員巧芯：請說。"],["楊處長長政：委員好，我是事業處處長楊長政。跟委員報告，我們公告的是所謂的基本薪資，但是我們三個高山所有農場的服務性質不一樣，它裡面包含了很多績效獎金、盈餘獎金，我們沒有把它算在裡面去，最主要原因在這邊。事實上我們經過統計，我們平地農場的薪資水準已經達到4萬3,000元了，我們三個高山農場平均的……"],["徐委員巧芯：所以你聘他2萬8，然後你最後的薪資給他4萬？"],["楊處長長政：因為有獎金，他們有很多很多獎金可以領。"],["徐委員巧芯：那你為什麼要用獎金的制度，而不是直接在他的薪水裡面給予呢？因為這會牽涉到很多他後續保障的問題，獎金這個事情當然就是你發了獎金，可是我們希望是在他的薪水裡面有實質的保障，因為很多的勞工也都碰到一樣的問題，公司裡面說他整個月薪水領了5萬，但實際上他真正的薪水只有兩萬多，那這樣的話，包含很多勞健保、勞退等等都會有一些沒有辦法彌補的情況，就是都會比較少，所以我要問的問題是，既然卓院長已經講了，中央約聘僱的薪資最起碼要3,1449起跳，我們退輔會是不是也應該要配合卓院長的政策，在最低薪資的部分要寫到3,1449？那你獎金或許發少一點，最後的結果是一樣的，但是要根據中央的政策，約聘僱的月薪最起碼要是3,1449，我不曉得主委您怎麼看？"],["嚴主任委員德發：報告委員，我們明年114年會全面做檢討、做調整。"],["徐委員巧芯：好，全面做檢討，我認為是非常需要做檢討的。","最後我要講一下，有關於我們退輔會照顧很多長照的公共化資源計畫裡面的執行率過低的情形，包含我現在所列出的，執行率很多都不到一半而已，但我今天要特別談的主要是在這些榮院的部分，有很多的分院有短絀的情形，包含我們的埔里分院跟屏東榮總，這幾年的營運狀況並不是很好，我今天因為時間有限，要特別請教的是在這種營運短絀的情況之下，今年本來說要漲14%的電價，後來醫療院所是凍漲，可是明年又不一定，如果接下來漲了電費的話，這些分院的營運會不會出現更嚴峻的狀況？"],["嚴主任委員德發：報告委員，我請我們就醫處處長跟你報告。"],["徐委員巧芯：請說。"],["劉處長峻正：委員好，我是就醫處處長劉峻正。跟委員報告，目前我們的用電度，在今年比去年只增加了3%左右，事實上是因為我們的門診跟住院的人次都增加了3.9%，所以這個比例……"],["徐委員巧芯：增加很正常、增加很正常，但我問的問題不是這個，我問的問題是，今年是醫療院所凍漲14%的電費，如果你們以目前的營運績效，明年不見得凍漲，那加了14%的電費之後，你們整體的營運會不會受到影響？"],["劉處長峻正：目前我們算出來整個電費的占率是1.45%，符合衛福部所提到的要在2%到3%左右的成本，所以目前是在衛福部的規範之內，是符合它的比例。"],["徐委員巧芯：所以你們認為說，就算是現在要貼14%的電價也沒有關係，是嗎？"],["劉處長峻正：絕對有關係，我們還是必須要去做開源節流的動作。"],["徐委員巧芯：所以我希望未來我們也持續幫大家爭取電費凍漲的部分，好嗎？謝謝。"],["劉處長峻正：是，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝徐巧芯委員，嚴主委請回。","接下來我們請沈伯洋委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":168,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-16","speakers":["林憶君","羅美玲","徐巧芯","沈伯洋","陳冠廷","林楚茵","馬文君","黃仁","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","賴士葆","葉元之","洪申翰","楊瓊瓔","王定宇"],"page_start":129,"meetingDate":["2024-11-21"],"gazette_id":"11310401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310401_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第16次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國軍退除役官兵輔導委員會主管收支部分（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"11310401_00002"}}}