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924.8, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 924.8, \"end\": 924.82, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 926.267, \"end\": 926.287, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 926.287, \"end\": 926.307, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:10,359 --> 00:00:11,240\n李永部長、胡文輝董事長\n\n2\n00:00:21,221 --> 00:00:39,327\n來部長,台灣Plus品質比較高,你剛親口講的是不是?沒有,我是說公共電視整個集團,他們在每個項目包括戲劇,包括綜藝,包括新聞,他品質真的是很高。那台灣Plus勒?剛剛倩琦委員問的是台灣Plus吧?\n\n3\n00:00:40,117 --> 00:00:42,499\n三年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。\n\n4\n00:01:01,338 --> 00:01:24,980\n還要鼓勵多久?我想我們人民的納稅前,立法院其實都對於行政部門想要讓世界聽到台灣的聲音,我們都很鼓勵。但重點是三年了投了58億了,結果世界有聽到台灣的聲音嗎?如果世界沒有聽到台灣的聲音,甚至聽到台灣可能表達錯誤的聲音或是偏薄的聲音,我們覺得更捏一把冷汗。\n\n5\n00:01:26,770 --> 00:01:44,268\n十號您怎麼講川普是被定罪的重刑犯這一則新聞文化部長認為事情嚴重討論後下講。十五號說要在公視董事會提出檢討報告請教檢討報告文化部長看過了嗎?\n\n6\n00:01:45,650 --> 00:01:51,974\n15號開完會說要提檢討報告21號今天要來審文化部的預算部長難道不認為說我們委員會針對這件事情關心嗎到現在還沒有看到檢討報告來董事長為什麼會發生這樣的錯誤會讓文化部長認為說這事情事情嚴重\n\n7\n00:02:12,297 --> 00:02:31,819\n我想這個事情當然是有它不獨當的地方不過我們還是要強調這個所謂的用語convictedfelon這個字事實上全世界的公共不是你要跟你的文化部長你的長官強調你不用跟我強調今天是文化部長認為事情嚴重啊所以你們是不是把這個新聞下架了\n\n8\n00:02:32,740 --> 00:03:00,896\n我們在8號的時候我們就已經做了適當的處置是適當處理就是已經修改下架嘛那15號的時候你們做檢討報告嘛那檢討報告為什麼會出現這樣的問題現在國人是問的是說要讓世界聽到台灣的聲音但沒想到不只沒有聽到台灣我們2350萬人主流民意反而會讓大家覺得是說我們是不是認為就是這個就是我們官方的意見官方的表示\n\n9\n00:03:02,383 --> 00:03:23,238\n我想我們第一個是獨立經營那並不是一個官方的媒體第二個部分就是說我們在處理上的確是當時的記者在處理過程中他以歷史的事實來做這樣的一個說明那我們認為他是個事實但是這樣的一個敘述脈絡並不妥當所以我們就做了一個暫行下架\n\n10\n00:03:24,118 --> 00:03:41,246\n閱讀報告在15號的董事會都經過討論之後我們也正式把這個部分都已經完成那這個部分我們也會依照公文程序那送給文化部那在這之前我們也已經把相關的決議也提送給文化部所以檢討到最後檢討是檢討了誰?\n\n11\n00:03:43,427 --> 00:03:44,068\n有沒有懲戒?\n\n12\n00:04:03,743 --> 00:04:29,609\n有沒有相關的人員懲處?有,我們在執行長的部分,因為並和其他的管理疏失,我們做了記過的處分。就是執行長?替力將來,對。好,來,再回來。另外我還組成一個專案的小組,那這個小組我們會去檢視到底在整個核稿的流程,或者是相關的這個組織體制的運作上面,是不是有什麼不合乎我們公共媒體需求的地方。\n\n13\n00:04:29,889 --> 00:04:30,069\n閱讀委員會立即開始運作\n\n14\n00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:45,340\n來,部長。\n\n15\n00:05:13,561 --> 00:05:36,395\n我不知道說您有沒有看過台灣Plus從三年前到現在它的維基百科本席特別幫你整理了一下它維基百科裡面都是爭議事件好像沒有什麼讓我們很興奮的事件有包括有通共的爭議有收視率的低迷說當初夸口說要百萬人次下載現在只有15萬、16萬人次下載\n\n16\n00:05:38,877 --> 00:06:03,313\nadequatestolessthan20%ofthebudget.還有電視台成率沒有法源依據以及不當稱呼美國總統候選人等等的爭議。還有電視台成率沒有法源依據以及不當稱呼美國總統候選人等等的爭議。TOMPASS過去三年多我們真的不知道說它存在的能夠發生的基礎在哪裡。還有一直講說我的播放率或是點閱率我就請教我們審計部的資料以及立法院預算中心的資料都講是說有67%其實是亞洲人下載。\n\n17\n00:06:07,455 --> 00:06:15,842\n沒有細算是哪一個國家啦,但我真的很懷疑亞洲人下載到底除了我們台灣跟中華民國以外還有誰下載了?部長,你認為我們要繼續投入現在審預明年預算還有十幾億的預算,因為它是一個延續計畫,還要持續投入嗎?\n\n18\n00:06:31,806 --> 00:06:31,986\n議員主席議員\n\n19\n00:06:51,084 --> 00:07:14,402\nbicyclopin等等正正用在這個台本身差不多每年就是8億那您剛剛問到說我要不要把它就在就此停的話我覺得當然要做的這個目的哪怕是不太理想可是我覺得我們不會親眼把它停掉可能我們要加強改進剛剛講了很多問題我想我是寧願我們來努力改進而且剛剛講到流量大概有2億其實有2億的流量100萬個粉粉絲的訂戶\n\n20\n00:07:20,066 --> 00:07:36,547\n一百萬個粉絲我都不好意思吐槽到底多少是殭屍粉絲你有沒有看到現在他一折貼文你講是FB嘛對不對FB一折貼文有幾個讚包括Youtube跟其他的那個我都不好意思吐槽不是部長\n\n21\n00:07:40,042 --> 00:08:04,918\n講28億好像28億不是錢欸28億你是文化人過去還沒有擔任部長的時候文化人聽到不要說28億啊280萬中央願意補助的時候我們可能都感謝了一個劇場一個繪本一個作家一個表演有個200萬300萬可能他就是半年的一個收入跟半年的一個支持\n\n22\n00:08:06,133 --> 00:08:25,697\n結果我們過去三年多四年不管是58億不管是40億不管是28億計算基礎不同有些是直接投資有些是人事費用有些是紀錄片但不管怎麼樣這一個計畫已經花了五六十一是不爭的事實那結果現在成效真的不髒啊我們所有文化部的同仁\n\n23\n00:08:31,179 --> 00:08:48,144\n誰手機裡面現在有app是台灣plus過去一個禮拜裡面有開過一次的有的請舉手一下好嗎一位部長啞口無言\n\n24\n00:09:07,824 --> 00:09:08,004\n閱讀委員會主席\n\n25\n00:09:29,707 --> 00:09:51,100\n那這個部分我們先是另外議題不過現在被我們委員踢爆是說要公視跟華視合資3000萬投資一個新創AI的活動公司那現在董事長華視公視董事長剛好又是同一位就你身邊後面這一位那所以變成是公視要49%華視要51%那還不是都是一樣那我們想問文化部\n\n26\n00:09:56,189 --> 00:10:13,425\n投資AI新創公司很好啊AI新創公司本席支持啊但有需要文化部來做嗎有需要公司來做有需要華視來做嗎那到底這家公司是要做什麼活動執行還是要安排位置部長你現在知道嗎\n\n27\n00:10:15,276 --> 00:10:16,557\n議長,您認為合適嗎?在公事華事的本職本業\n\n28\n00:10:35,146 --> 00:10:47,192\n愧損持續連連的情況突然間還要再拿3000萬再去投資一家新創公司跟本業沒有那麼直接關係而且這個新創公司聽起來是要執行活動他還不是要做內容影視產業\n\n29\n00:10:49,465 --> 00:10:50,645\n您覺得合適嗎?我們沒有辦法內造化。\n\n30\n00:11:12,052 --> 00:11:24,287\n我們公廣集團華氏集團有那麼多優秀同仁沒有辦法來做數位轉型我們還要再去投資另外一家公司盈虧自負找董事長找總經理找經營團隊我要喝一瓶鮮奶我要養一頭牛啊\n\n31\n00:11:28,993 --> 00:11:48,135\n不是啊你看起來就是這樣子啊我們過去到現在你說要數位轉型本席沒有反對喔本席甚至還看了董事長最近還有到政大還是哪裡也有做相關的演講AI是浪潮本席同意但是重點在於是說你為什麼現在在也許明年你的任期到期\n\n32\n00:11:49,178 --> 00:12:10,209\n在這個時候突然間通過而且15號的董事會除了討論所謂的檢討報告還通過公式投資管理辦法找案幫非公式營業項目的財務性投資開綠燈有沒有這回事?有不過您短化了這個情況因為第一個我們實際上只有融資管理辦法可是另外我們還有關係法人的辦法而且事實上還有基金管理辦法\n\n33\n00:12:15,112 --> 00:12:26,616\n數位轉型本行沒有反對但是你喝一個鮮奶你要養一頭牛那這樣子文化部我們要不要改成農業部啊我們下面都是養牛就好啦來部長部長可以接受嗎\n\n34\n00:12:30,297 --> 00:12:49,318\n一個公司因為他的虧損所以他就不希望他要繼續往前走我從來沒有反對請聽好董事長公視也好華視也好我是在野黨委員但我從來沒有希望華視公視持續虧損我從來沒有希望他停滯不前\n\n35\n00:12:49,898 --> 00:12:49,918\n閱讀委員會\n\n36\n00:13:08,624 --> 00:13:30,551\n除非你已經有商機了否則以現在又百業缺工的情況下你突然間要傳立一家公司然後跟我們講是說這家公司未來盈虧要致富因為要幫我們公司做內部的數位轉型不覺得很奇怪嗎?來董事長我時間有限啦因為下面還有委員要質詢一樣的議題我最後一個問題請教部長就好好不好來部長最後\n\n37\n00:13:37,401 --> 00:14:04,995\n一分鐘現在有這個前委員啊也是歌壇大佬跳出來爆料講說當初有被承諾說要公視董事長華視董事長然後到最後又沒有那本席不禁想到因為剛剛發言的這位胡董事長他任期到明年啊現在11月突然間這個大佬跳出來講這個話是不是有暗示可能希望有爭取這個位置\n\n38\n00:14:06,004 --> 00:14:09,927\n您認為公視董事長或華視董事長可以拿來做人事酬庸使用嗎?\n\n39\n00:14:57,866 --> 00:15:24,820\n對文化部來講這一點都沒辦法干預這個這我現在講的是實話喔因為我自己曾經做過華視我是自己考試進去的九個人考試我的經驗中我不覺得是外面想像中說我要給誰就給誰我謝謝你問這問題但是本期只一句話啦部長如果說你這樣講的話你就代表是說我們這個前委員他的爆料是無敵放矢他的爆料不是事實\n\n40\n00:15:26,267 --> 00:15:26,307\n議員主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n10359\t11240\t李永部長、胡文輝董事長\n21221\t39327\t來部長,台灣Plus品質比較高,你剛親口講的是不是?沒有,我是說公共電視整個集團,他們在每個項目包括戲劇,包括綜藝,包括新聞,他品質真的是很高。那台灣Plus勒?剛剛倩琦委員問的是台灣Plus吧?\n40117\t42499\t三年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。\n61338\t84980\t還要鼓勵多久?我想我們人民的納稅前,立法院其實都對於行政部門想要讓世界聽到台灣的聲音,我們都很鼓勵。但重點是三年了投了58億了,結果世界有聽到台灣的聲音嗎?如果世界沒有聽到台灣的聲音,甚至聽到台灣可能表達錯誤的聲音或是偏薄的聲音,我們覺得更捏一把冷汗。\n86770\t104268\t十號您怎麼講川普是被定罪的重刑犯這一則新聞文化部長認為事情嚴重討論後下講。十五號說要在公視董事會提出檢討報告請教檢討報告文化部長看過了嗎?\n105650\t111974\t15號開完會說要提檢討報告21號今天要來審文化部的預算部長難道不認為說我們委員會針對這件事情關心嗎到現在還沒有看到檢討報告來 董事長為什麼會發生這樣的錯誤會讓文化部長認為說這事情事情嚴重\n132297\t151819\t我想這個事情當然是有它不獨當的地方不過我們還是要強調這個所謂的用語convicted felon這個字事實上全世界的公共不是你要跟你的文化部長你的長官強調你不用跟我強調今天是文化部長認為事情嚴重啊所以你們是不是把這個新聞下架了\n152740\t180896\t我們在8號的時候我們就已經做了適當的處置是適當處理就是已經修改下架嘛那15號的時候你們做檢討報告嘛那檢討報告為什麼會出現這樣的問題現在國人是問的是說要讓世界聽到台灣的聲音但沒想到不只沒有聽到台灣我們2350萬人主流民意反而會讓大家覺得是說我們是不是認為就是這個就是我們官方的意見官方的表示\n182383\t203238\t我想我們第一個是獨立經營那並不是一個官方的媒體第二個部分就是說我們在處理上的確是當時的記者在處理過程中他以歷史的事實來做這樣的一個說明那我們認為他是個事實但是這樣的一個敘述脈絡並不妥當所以我們就做了一個暫行下架\n204118\t221246\t閱讀報告在15號的董事會都經過討論之後我們也正式把這個部分都已經完成那這個部分我們也會依照公文程序那送給文化部那在這之前我們也已經把相關的決議也提送給文化部所以檢討到最後檢討是檢討了誰?\n223427\t224068\t有沒有懲戒?\n243743\t269609\t有沒有相關的人員懲處?有,我們在執行長的部分,因為並和其他的管理疏失,我們做了記過的處分。就是執行長?替力將來,對。好,來,再回來。另外我還組成一個專案的小組,那這個小組我們會去檢視到底在整個核稿的流程,或者是相關的這個組織體制的運作上面,是不是有什麼不合乎我們公共媒體需求的地方。\n269889\t270069\t閱讀委員會立即開始運作\n285320\t285340\t來,部長。\n313561\t336395\t我不知道說您有沒有看過台灣Plus從三年前到現在它的維基百科本席特別幫你整理了一下它維基百科裡面都是爭議事件好像沒有什麼讓我們很興奮的事件有包括有通共的爭議有收視率的低迷說當初夸口說要百萬人次下載現在只有15萬、16萬人次下載\n338877\t363313\tadequates to less than 20% of the budget.還有電視台成率沒有法源依據以及不當稱呼美國總統候選人等等的爭議。還有電視台成率沒有法源依據以及不當稱呼美國總統候選人等等的爭議。TOMPASS過去三年多我們真的不知道說它存在的能夠發生的基礎在哪裡。還有一直講說我的播放率或是點閱率我就請教我們審計部的資料以及立法院預算中心的資料都講是說有67%其實是亞洲人下載。\n367455\t375842\t沒有細算是哪一個國家啦,但我真的很懷疑亞洲人下載到底除了我們台灣跟中華民國以外還有誰下載了?部長,你認為我們要繼續投入現在審預明年預算還有十幾億的預算,因為它是一個延續計畫,還要持續投入嗎?\n391806\t391986\t議員主席議員\n411084\t434402\tbicyclopin 等等正正用在這個台本身差不多每年就是8億那您剛剛問到說我要不要把它就在就此停的話我覺得當然要做的這個目的哪怕是不太理想可是我覺得我們不會親眼把它停掉可能我們要加強改進剛剛講了很多問題我想我是寧願我們來努力改進而且剛剛講到流量大概有2億其實有2億的流量100萬個粉粉絲的訂戶\n440066\t456547\t一百萬個粉絲我都不好意思吐槽到底多少是殭屍粉絲你有沒有看到現在他一折貼文你講是FB嘛對不對FB一折貼文有幾個讚包括Youtube跟其他的那個我都不好意思吐槽不是部長\n460042\t484918\t講28億好像28億不是錢欸28億你是文化人過去還沒有擔任部長的時候文化人聽到不要說28億啊280萬中央願意補助的時候我們可能都感謝了一個劇場一個繪本一個作家一個表演有個200萬300萬可能他就是半年的一個收入跟半年的一個支持\n486133\t505697\t結果我們過去三年多四年不管是58億不管是40億不管是28億計算基礎不同有些是直接投資有些是人事費用有些是紀錄片但不管怎麼樣這一個計畫已經花了五六十一是不爭的事實那結果現在成效真的不髒啊我們所有文化部的同仁\n511179\t528144\t誰手機裡面現在有app是台灣plus過去一個禮拜裡面有開過一次的有的請舉手一下好嗎一位部長啞口無言\n533131\t547568\t議員議員\n547824\t548004\t閱讀委員會主席\n569707\t591100\t那這個部分我們先是另外議題不過現在被我們委員踢爆是說要公視跟華視合資3000萬投資一個新創AI的活動公司那現在董事長華視公視董事長剛好又是同一位就你身邊後面這一位那所以變成是公視要49%華視要51%那還不是都是一樣那我們想問文化部\n596189\t613425\t投資AI新創公司很好啊AI新創公司本席支持啊但有需要文化部來做嗎有需要公司來做有需要華視來做嗎那到底這家公司是要做什麼活動執行還是要安排位置部長你現在知道嗎\n615276\t616557\t議長,您認為合適嗎?在公事華事的本職本業\n635146\t647192\t愧損持續連連的情況突然間還要再拿3000萬再去投資一家新創公司跟本業沒有那麼直接關係而且這個新創公司聽起來是要執行活動他還不是要做內容影視產業\n649465\t650645\t您覺得合適嗎?我們沒有辦法內造化。\n672052\t684287\t我們公廣集團華氏集團有那麼多優秀同仁沒有辦法來做數位轉型我們還要再去投資另外一家公司盈虧自負找董事長找總經理找經營團隊我要喝一瓶鮮奶我要養一頭牛啊\n688993\t708135\t不是啊 你看起來就是這樣子啊我們過去到現在你說要數位轉型本席沒有反對喔本席甚至還看了董事長最近還有到政大還是哪裡也有做相關的演講AI是浪潮本席同意但是重點在於是說你為什麼現在在也許明年你的任期到期\n709178\t730209\t在這個時候突然間通過而且15號的董事會除了討論所謂的檢討報告還通過公式投資管理辦法找案幫非公式營業項目的財務性投資開綠燈有沒有這回事?有不過您短化了這個情況因為第一個我們實際上只有融資管理辦法可是另外我們還有關係法人的辦法而且事實上還有基金管理辦法\n735112\t746616\t數位轉型本行沒有反對但是你喝一個鮮奶你要養一頭牛那這樣子文化部我們要不要改成農業部啊我們下面都是養牛就好啦來部長部長可以接受嗎\n750297\t769318\t一個公司因為他的虧損所以他就不希望他要繼續往前走我從來沒有反對請聽好董事長公視也好華視也好我是在野黨委員但我從來沒有希望華視公視持續虧損我從來沒有希望他停滯不前\n769898\t769918\t閱讀委員會\n788624\t810551\t除非你已經有商機了否則以現在又百業缺工的情況下你突然間要傳立一家公司然後跟我們講是說這家公司未來盈虧要致富因為要幫我們公司做內部的數位轉型不覺得很奇怪嗎?來董事長我時間有限啦因為下面還有委員要質詢一樣的議題我最後一個問題請教部長就好好不好來部長最後\n817401\t844995\t一分鐘現在有這個前委員啊也是歌壇大佬跳出來爆料講說當初有被承諾說要公視董事長華視董事長然後到最後又沒有那本席不禁想到因為剛剛發言的這位胡董事長他任期到明年啊現在11月突然間這個大佬跳出來講這個話是不是有暗示可能希望有爭取這個位置\n846004\t849927\t您認為公視董事長或華視董事長可以拿來做人事酬庸使用嗎?\n875964\t897346\t議員議員議員\n897866\t924820\t對文化部來講這一點都沒辦法干預這個這我現在講的是實話喔因為我自己曾經做過華視我是自己考試進去的九個人考試我的經驗中我不覺得是外面想像中說我要給誰就給誰我謝謝你問這問題但是本期只一句話啦部長如果說你這樣講的話你就代表是說我們這個前委員他的爆料是無敵放矢他的爆料不是事實\n926267\t926307\t議員主席\n","txt":"李永部長、胡文輝董事長\n來部長,台灣Plus品質比較高,你剛親口講的是不是?沒有,我是說公共電視整個集團,他們在每個項目包括戲劇,包括綜藝,包括新聞,他品質真的是很高。那台灣Plus勒?剛剛倩琦委員問的是台灣Plus吧?\n三年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。\n還要鼓勵多久?我想我們人民的納稅前,立法院其實都對於行政部門想要讓世界聽到台灣的聲音,我們都很鼓勵。但重點是三年了投了58億了,結果世界有聽到台灣的聲音嗎?如果世界沒有聽到台灣的聲音,甚至聽到台灣可能表達錯誤的聲音或是偏薄的聲音,我們覺得更捏一把冷汗。\n十號您怎麼講川普是被定罪的重刑犯這一則新聞文化部長認為事情嚴重討論後下講。十五號說要在公視董事會提出檢討報告請教檢討報告文化部長看過了嗎?\n15號開完會說要提檢討報告21號今天要來審文化部的預算部長難道不認為說我們委員會針對這件事情關心嗎到現在還沒有看到檢討報告來 董事長為什麼會發生這樣的錯誤會讓文化部長認為說這事情事情嚴重\n我想這個事情當然是有它不獨當的地方不過我們還是要強調這個所謂的用語convicted felon這個字事實上全世界的公共不是你要跟你的文化部長你的長官強調你不用跟我強調今天是文化部長認為事情嚴重啊所以你們是不是把這個新聞下架了\n我們在8號的時候我們就已經做了適當的處置是適當處理就是已經修改下架嘛那15號的時候你們做檢討報告嘛那檢討報告為什麼會出現這樣的問題現在國人是問的是說要讓世界聽到台灣的聲音但沒想到不只沒有聽到台灣我們2350萬人主流民意反而會讓大家覺得是說我們是不是認為就是這個就是我們官方的意見官方的表示\n我想我們第一個是獨立經營那並不是一個官方的媒體第二個部分就是說我們在處理上的確是當時的記者在處理過程中他以歷史的事實來做這樣的一個說明那我們認為他是個事實但是這樣的一個敘述脈絡並不妥當所以我們就做了一個暫行下架\n閱讀報告在15號的董事會都經過討論之後我們也正式把這個部分都已經完成那這個部分我們也會依照公文程序那送給文化部那在這之前我們也已經把相關的決議也提送給文化部所以檢討到最後檢討是檢討了誰?\n有沒有懲戒?\n有沒有相關的人員懲處?有,我們在執行長的部分,因為並和其他的管理疏失,我們做了記過的處分。就是執行長?替力將來,對。好,來,再回來。另外我還組成一個專案的小組,那這個小組我們會去檢視到底在整個核稿的流程,或者是相關的這個組織體制的運作上面,是不是有什麼不合乎我們公共媒體需求的地方。\n閱讀委員會立即開始運作\n來,部長。\n我不知道說您有沒有看過台灣Plus從三年前到現在它的維基百科本席特別幫你整理了一下它維基百科裡面都是爭議事件好像沒有什麼讓我們很興奮的事件有包括有通共的爭議有收視率的低迷說當初夸口說要百萬人次下載現在只有15萬、16萬人次下載\nadequates to less than 20% of the budget.還有電視台成率沒有法源依據以及不當稱呼美國總統候選人等等的爭議。還有電視台成率沒有法源依據以及不當稱呼美國總統候選人等等的爭議。TOMPASS過去三年多我們真的不知道說它存在的能夠發生的基礎在哪裡。還有一直講說我的播放率或是點閱率我就請教我們審計部的資料以及立法院預算中心的資料都講是說有67%其實是亞洲人下載。\n沒有細算是哪一個國家啦,但我真的很懷疑亞洲人下載到底除了我們台灣跟中華民國以外還有誰下載了?部長,你認為我們要繼續投入現在審預明年預算還有十幾億的預算,因為它是一個延續計畫,還要持續投入嗎?\n議員主席議員\nbicyclopin 等等正正用在這個台本身差不多每年就是8億那您剛剛問到說我要不要把它就在就此停的話我覺得當然要做的這個目的哪怕是不太理想可是我覺得我們不會親眼把它停掉可能我們要加強改進剛剛講了很多問題我想我是寧願我們來努力改進而且剛剛講到流量大概有2億其實有2億的流量100萬個粉粉絲的訂戶\n一百萬個粉絲我都不好意思吐槽到底多少是殭屍粉絲你有沒有看到現在他一折貼文你講是FB嘛對不對FB一折貼文有幾個讚包括Youtube跟其他的那個我都不好意思吐槽不是部長\n講28億好像28億不是錢欸28億你是文化人過去還沒有擔任部長的時候文化人聽到不要說28億啊280萬中央願意補助的時候我們可能都感謝了一個劇場一個繪本一個作家一個表演有個200萬300萬可能他就是半年的一個收入跟半年的一個支持\n結果我們過去三年多四年不管是58億不管是40億不管是28億計算基礎不同有些是直接投資有些是人事費用有些是紀錄片但不管怎麼樣這一個計畫已經花了五六十一是不爭的事實那結果現在成效真的不髒啊我們所有文化部的同仁\n誰手機裡面現在有app是台灣plus過去一個禮拜裡面有開過一次的有的請舉手一下好嗎一位部長啞口無言\n議員議員\n閱讀委員會主席\n那這個部分我們先是另外議題不過現在被我們委員踢爆是說要公視跟華視合資3000萬投資一個新創AI的活動公司那現在董事長華視公視董事長剛好又是同一位就你身邊後面這一位那所以變成是公視要49%華視要51%那還不是都是一樣那我們想問文化部\n投資AI新創公司很好啊AI新創公司本席支持啊但有需要文化部來做嗎有需要公司來做有需要華視來做嗎那到底這家公司是要做什麼活動執行還是要安排位置部長你現在知道嗎\n議長,您認為合適嗎?在公事華事的本職本業\n愧損持續連連的情況突然間還要再拿3000萬再去投資一家新創公司跟本業沒有那麼直接關係而且這個新創公司聽起來是要執行活動他還不是要做內容影視產業\n您覺得合適嗎?我們沒有辦法內造化。\n我們公廣集團華氏集團有那麼多優秀同仁沒有辦法來做數位轉型我們還要再去投資另外一家公司盈虧自負找董事長找總經理找經營團隊我要喝一瓶鮮奶我要養一頭牛啊\n不是啊 你看起來就是這樣子啊我們過去到現在你說要數位轉型本席沒有反對喔本席甚至還看了董事長最近還有到政大還是哪裡也有做相關的演講AI是浪潮本席同意但是重點在於是說你為什麼現在在也許明年你的任期到期\n在這個時候突然間通過而且15號的董事會除了討論所謂的檢討報告還通過公式投資管理辦法找案幫非公式營業項目的財務性投資開綠燈有沒有這回事?有不過您短化了這個情況因為第一個我們實際上只有融資管理辦法可是另外我們還有關係法人的辦法而且事實上還有基金管理辦法\n數位轉型本行沒有反對但是你喝一個鮮奶你要養一頭牛那這樣子文化部我們要不要改成農業部啊我們下面都是養牛就好啦來部長部長可以接受嗎\n一個公司因為他的虧損所以他就不希望他要繼續往前走我從來沒有反對請聽好董事長公視也好華視也好我是在野黨委員但我從來沒有希望華視公視持續虧損我從來沒有希望他停滯不前\n閱讀委員會\n除非你已經有商機了否則以現在又百業缺工的情況下你突然間要傳立一家公司然後跟我們講是說這家公司未來盈虧要致富因為要幫我們公司做內部的數位轉型不覺得很奇怪嗎?來董事長我時間有限啦因為下面還有委員要質詢一樣的議題我最後一個問題請教部長就好好不好來部長最後\n一分鐘現在有這個前委員啊也是歌壇大佬跳出來爆料講說當初有被承諾說要公視董事長華視董事長然後到最後又沒有那本席不禁想到因為剛剛發言的這位胡董事長他任期到明年啊現在11月突然間這個大佬跳出來講這個話是不是有暗示可能希望有爭取這個位置\n您認為公視董事長或華視董事長可以拿來做人事酬庸使用嗎?\n議員議員議員\n對文化部來講這一點都沒辦法干預這個這我現在講的是實話喔因為我自己曾經做過華視我是自己考試進去的九個人考試我的經驗中我不覺得是外面想像中說我要給誰就給誰我謝謝你問這問題但是本期只一句話啦部長如果說你這樣講的話你就代表是說我們這個前委員他的爆料是無敵放矢他的爆料不是事實\n議員主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:10.359 --> 00:11.240\n李永部長、胡文輝董事長\n\n00:21.221 --> 00:39.327\n來部長,台灣Plus品質比較高,你剛親口講的是不是?沒有,我是說公共電視整個集團,他們在每個項目包括戲劇,包括綜藝,包括新聞,他品質真的是很高。那台灣Plus勒?剛剛倩琦委員問的是台灣Plus吧?\n\n00:40.117 --> 00:42.499\n三年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。\n\n01:01.338 --> 01:24.980\n還要鼓勵多久?我想我們人民的納稅前,立法院其實都對於行政部門想要讓世界聽到台灣的聲音,我們都很鼓勵。但重點是三年了投了58億了,結果世界有聽到台灣的聲音嗎?如果世界沒有聽到台灣的聲音,甚至聽到台灣可能表達錯誤的聲音或是偏薄的聲音,我們覺得更捏一把冷汗。\n\n01:26.770 --> 01:44.268\n十號您怎麼講川普是被定罪的重刑犯這一則新聞文化部長認為事情嚴重討論後下講。十五號說要在公視董事會提出檢討報告請教檢討報告文化部長看過了嗎?\n\n01:45.650 --> 01:51.974\n15號開完會說要提檢討報告21號今天要來審文化部的預算部長難道不認為說我們委員會針對這件事情關心嗎到現在還沒有看到檢討報告來董事長為什麼會發生這樣的錯誤會讓文化部長認為說這事情事情嚴重\n\n02:12.297 --> 02:31.819\n我想這個事情當然是有它不獨當的地方不過我們還是要強調這個所謂的用語convictedfelon這個字事實上全世界的公共不是你要跟你的文化部長你的長官強調你不用跟我強調今天是文化部長認為事情嚴重啊所以你們是不是把這個新聞下架了\n\n02:32.740 --> 03:00.896\n我們在8號的時候我們就已經做了適當的處置是適當處理就是已經修改下架嘛那15號的時候你們做檢討報告嘛那檢討報告為什麼會出現這樣的問題現在國人是問的是說要讓世界聽到台灣的聲音但沒想到不只沒有聽到台灣我們2350萬人主流民意反而會讓大家覺得是說我們是不是認為就是這個就是我們官方的意見官方的表示\n\n03:02.383 --> 03:23.238\n我想我們第一個是獨立經營那並不是一個官方的媒體第二個部分就是說我們在處理上的確是當時的記者在處理過程中他以歷史的事實來做這樣的一個說明那我們認為他是個事實但是這樣的一個敘述脈絡並不妥當所以我們就做了一個暫行下架\n\n03:24.118 --> 03:41.246\n閱讀報告在15號的董事會都經過討論之後我們也正式把這個部分都已經完成那這個部分我們也會依照公文程序那送給文化部那在這之前我們也已經把相關的決議也提送給文化部所以檢討到最後檢討是檢討了誰?\n\n03:43.427 --> 03:44.068\n有沒有懲戒?\n\n04:03.743 --> 04:29.609\n有沒有相關的人員懲處?有,我們在執行長的部分,因為並和其他的管理疏失,我們做了記過的處分。就是執行長?替力將來,對。好,來,再回來。另外我還組成一個專案的小組,那這個小組我們會去檢視到底在整個核稿的流程,或者是相關的這個組織體制的運作上面,是不是有什麼不合乎我們公共媒體需求的地方。\n\n04:29.889 --> 04:30.069\n閱讀委員會立即開始運作\n\n04:45.320 --> 04:45.340\n來,部長。\n\n05:13.561 --> 05:36.395\n我不知道說您有沒有看過台灣Plus從三年前到現在它的維基百科本席特別幫你整理了一下它維基百科裡面都是爭議事件好像沒有什麼讓我們很興奮的事件有包括有通共的爭議有收視率的低迷說當初夸口說要百萬人次下載現在只有15萬、16萬人次下載\n\n05:38.877 --> 06:03.313\nadequatestolessthan20%ofthebudget.還有電視台成率沒有法源依據以及不當稱呼美國總統候選人等等的爭議。還有電視台成率沒有法源依據以及不當稱呼美國總統候選人等等的爭議。TOMPASS過去三年多我們真的不知道說它存在的能夠發生的基礎在哪裡。還有一直講說我的播放率或是點閱率我就請教我們審計部的資料以及立法院預算中心的資料都講是說有67%其實是亞洲人下載。\n\n06:07.455 --> 06:15.842\n沒有細算是哪一個國家啦,但我真的很懷疑亞洲人下載到底除了我們台灣跟中華民國以外還有誰下載了?部長,你認為我們要繼續投入現在審預明年預算還有十幾億的預算,因為它是一個延續計畫,還要持續投入嗎?\n\n06:31.806 --> 06:31.986\n議員主席議員\n\n06:51.084 --> 07:14.402\nbicyclopin等等正正用在這個台本身差不多每年就是8億那您剛剛問到說我要不要把它就在就此停的話我覺得當然要做的這個目的哪怕是不太理想可是我覺得我們不會親眼把它停掉可能我們要加強改進剛剛講了很多問題我想我是寧願我們來努力改進而且剛剛講到流量大概有2億其實有2億的流量100萬個粉粉絲的訂戶\n\n07:20.066 --> 07:36.547\n一百萬個粉絲我都不好意思吐槽到底多少是殭屍粉絲你有沒有看到現在他一折貼文你講是FB嘛對不對FB一折貼文有幾個讚包括Youtube跟其他的那個我都不好意思吐槽不是部長\n\n07:40.042 --> 08:04.918\n講28億好像28億不是錢欸28億你是文化人過去還沒有擔任部長的時候文化人聽到不要說28億啊280萬中央願意補助的時候我們可能都感謝了一個劇場一個繪本一個作家一個表演有個200萬300萬可能他就是半年的一個收入跟半年的一個支持\n\n08:06.133 --> 08:25.697\n結果我們過去三年多四年不管是58億不管是40億不管是28億計算基礎不同有些是直接投資有些是人事費用有些是紀錄片但不管怎麼樣這一個計畫已經花了五六十一是不爭的事實那結果現在成效真的不髒啊我們所有文化部的同仁\n\n08:31.179 --> 08:48.144\n誰手機裡面現在有app是台灣plus過去一個禮拜裡面有開過一次的有的請舉手一下好嗎一位部長啞口無言\n\n09:07.824 --> 09:08.004\n閱讀委員會主席\n\n09:29.707 --> 09:51.100\n那這個部分我們先是另外議題不過現在被我們委員踢爆是說要公視跟華視合資3000萬投資一個新創AI的活動公司那現在董事長華視公視董事長剛好又是同一位就你身邊後面這一位那所以變成是公視要49%華視要51%那還不是都是一樣那我們想問文化部\n\n09:56.189 --> 10:13.425\n投資AI新創公司很好啊AI新創公司本席支持啊但有需要文化部來做嗎有需要公司來做有需要華視來做嗎那到底這家公司是要做什麼活動執行還是要安排位置部長你現在知道嗎\n\n10:15.276 --> 10:16.557\n議長,您認為合適嗎?在公事華事的本職本業\n\n10:35.146 --> 10:47.192\n愧損持續連連的情況突然間還要再拿3000萬再去投資一家新創公司跟本業沒有那麼直接關係而且這個新創公司聽起來是要執行活動他還不是要做內容影視產業\n\n10:49.465 --> 10:50.645\n您覺得合適嗎?我們沒有辦法內造化。\n\n11:12.052 --> 11:24.287\n我們公廣集團華氏集團有那麼多優秀同仁沒有辦法來做數位轉型我們還要再去投資另外一家公司盈虧自負找董事長找總經理找經營團隊我要喝一瓶鮮奶我要養一頭牛啊\n\n11:28.993 --> 11:48.135\n不是啊你看起來就是這樣子啊我們過去到現在你說要數位轉型本席沒有反對喔本席甚至還看了董事長最近還有到政大還是哪裡也有做相關的演講AI是浪潮本席同意但是重點在於是說你為什麼現在在也許明年你的任期到期\n\n11:49.178 --> 12:10.209\n在這個時候突然間通過而且15號的董事會除了討論所謂的檢討報告還通過公式投資管理辦法找案幫非公式營業項目的財務性投資開綠燈有沒有這回事?有不過您短化了這個情況因為第一個我們實際上只有融資管理辦法可是另外我們還有關係法人的辦法而且事實上還有基金管理辦法\n\n12:15.112 --> 12:26.616\n數位轉型本行沒有反對但是你喝一個鮮奶你要養一頭牛那這樣子文化部我們要不要改成農業部啊我們下面都是養牛就好啦來部長部長可以接受嗎\n\n12:30.297 --> 12:49.318\n一個公司因為他的虧損所以他就不希望他要繼續往前走我從來沒有反對請聽好董事長公視也好華視也好我是在野黨委員但我從來沒有希望華視公視持續虧損我從來沒有希望他停滯不前\n\n12:49.898 --> 12:49.918\n閱讀委員會\n\n13:08.624 --> 13:30.551\n除非你已經有商機了否則以現在又百業缺工的情況下你突然間要傳立一家公司然後跟我們講是說這家公司未來盈虧要致富因為要幫我們公司做內部的數位轉型不覺得很奇怪嗎?來董事長我時間有限啦因為下面還有委員要質詢一樣的議題我最後一個問題請教部長就好好不好來部長最後\n\n13:37.401 --> 14:04.995\n一分鐘現在有這個前委員啊也是歌壇大佬跳出來爆料講說當初有被承諾說要公視董事長華視董事長然後到最後又沒有那本席不禁想到因為剛剛發言的這位胡董事長他任期到明年啊現在11月突然間這個大佬跳出來講這個話是不是有暗示可能希望有爭取這個位置\n\n14:06.004 --> 14:09.927\n您認為公視董事長或華視董事長可以拿來做人事酬庸使用嗎?\n\n14:57.866 --> 15:24.820\n對文化部來講這一點都沒辦法干預這個這我現在講的是實話喔因為我自己曾經做過華視我是自己考試進去的九個人考試我的經驗中我不覺得是外面想像中說我要給誰就給誰我謝謝你問這問題但是本期只一句話啦部長如果說你這樣講的話你就代表是說我們這個前委員他的爆料是無敵放矢他的爆料不是事實\n\n15:26.267 --> 15:26.307\n議員主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":10.359,"end":11.24,"text":"李永部長、胡文輝董事長"},{"start":21.221,"end":39.327,"text":"來部長,台灣Plus品質比較高,你剛親口講的是不是?沒有,我是說公共電視整個集團,他們在每個項目包括戲劇,包括綜藝,包括新聞,他品質真的是很高。那台灣Plus勒?剛剛倩琦委員問的是台灣Plus吧?"},{"start":40.117,"end":42.499,"text":"三年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。"},{"start":61.338,"end":84.98,"text":"還要鼓勵多久?我想我們人民的納稅前,立法院其實都對於行政部門想要讓世界聽到台灣的聲音,我們都很鼓勵。但重點是三年了投了58億了,結果世界有聽到台灣的聲音嗎?如果世界沒有聽到台灣的聲音,甚至聽到台灣可能表達錯誤的聲音或是偏薄的聲音,我們覺得更捏一把冷汗。"},{"start":86.77,"end":104.268,"text":"十號您怎麼講川普是被定罪的重刑犯這一則新聞文化部長認為事情嚴重討論後下講。十五號說要在公視董事會提出檢討報告請教檢討報告文化部長看過了嗎?"},{"start":105.65,"end":111.974,"text":"15號開完會說要提檢討報告21號今天要來審文化部的預算部長難道不認為說我們委員會針對這件事情關心嗎到現在還沒有看到檢討報告來 董事長為什麼會發生這樣的錯誤會讓文化部長認為說這事情事情嚴重"},{"start":132.297,"end":151.819,"text":"我想這個事情當然是有它不獨當的地方不過我們還是要強調這個所謂的用語convicted felon這個字事實上全世界的公共不是你要跟你的文化部長你的長官強調你不用跟我強調今天是文化部長認為事情嚴重啊所以你們是不是把這個新聞下架了"},{"start":152.74,"end":180.896,"text":"我們在8號的時候我們就已經做了適當的處置是適當處理就是已經修改下架嘛那15號的時候你們做檢討報告嘛那檢討報告為什麼會出現這樣的問題現在國人是問的是說要讓世界聽到台灣的聲音但沒想到不只沒有聽到台灣我們2350萬人主流民意反而會讓大家覺得是說我們是不是認為就是這個就是我們官方的意見官方的表示"},{"start":182.383,"end":203.238,"text":"我想我們第一個是獨立經營那並不是一個官方的媒體第二個部分就是說我們在處理上的確是當時的記者在處理過程中他以歷史的事實來做這樣的一個說明那我們認為他是個事實但是這樣的一個敘述脈絡並不妥當所以我們就做了一個暫行下架"},{"start":204.118,"end":221.246,"text":"閱讀報告在15號的董事會都經過討論之後我們也正式把這個部分都已經完成那這個部分我們也會依照公文程序那送給文化部那在這之前我們也已經把相關的決議也提送給文化部所以檢討到最後檢討是檢討了誰?"},{"start":223.427,"end":224.068,"text":"有沒有懲戒?"},{"start":243.743,"end":269.609,"text":"有沒有相關的人員懲處?有,我們在執行長的部分,因為並和其他的管理疏失,我們做了記過的處分。就是執行長?替力將來,對。好,來,再回來。另外我還組成一個專案的小組,那這個小組我們會去檢視到底在整個核稿的流程,或者是相關的這個組織體制的運作上面,是不是有什麼不合乎我們公共媒體需求的地方。"},{"start":269.889,"end":270.069,"text":"閱讀委員會立即開始運作"},{"start":285.32,"end":285.34,"text":"來,部長。"},{"start":313.561,"end":336.395,"text":"我不知道說您有沒有看過台灣Plus從三年前到現在它的維基百科本席特別幫你整理了一下它維基百科裡面都是爭議事件好像沒有什麼讓我們很興奮的事件有包括有通共的爭議有收視率的低迷說當初夸口說要百萬人次下載現在只有15萬、16萬人次下載"},{"start":338.877,"end":363.313,"text":"adequates to less than 20% of the budget.還有電視台成率沒有法源依據以及不當稱呼美國總統候選人等等的爭議。還有電視台成率沒有法源依據以及不當稱呼美國總統候選人等等的爭議。TOMPASS過去三年多我們真的不知道說它存在的能夠發生的基礎在哪裡。還有一直講說我的播放率或是點閱率我就請教我們審計部的資料以及立法院預算中心的資料都講是說有67%其實是亞洲人下載。"},{"start":367.455,"end":375.842,"text":"沒有細算是哪一個國家啦,但我真的很懷疑亞洲人下載到底除了我們台灣跟中華民國以外還有誰下載了?部長,你認為我們要繼續投入現在審預明年預算還有十幾億的預算,因為它是一個延續計畫,還要持續投入嗎?"},{"start":391.806,"end":391.986,"text":"議員主席議員"},{"start":411.084,"end":434.402,"text":" bicyclopin 等等正正用在這個台本身差不多每年就是8億那您剛剛問到說我要不要把它就在就此停的話我覺得當然要做的這個目的哪怕是不太理想可是我覺得我們不會親眼把它停掉可能我們要加強改進剛剛講了很多問題我想我是寧願我們來努力改進而且剛剛講到流量大概有2億其實有2億的流量100萬個粉粉絲的訂戶"},{"start":440.066,"end":456.547,"text":"一百萬個粉絲我都不好意思吐槽到底多少是殭屍粉絲你有沒有看到現在他一折貼文你講是FB嘛對不對FB一折貼文有幾個讚包括Youtube跟其他的那個我都不好意思吐槽不是部長"},{"start":460.042,"end":484.918,"text":"講28億好像28億不是錢欸28億你是文化人過去還沒有擔任部長的時候文化人聽到不要說28億啊280萬中央願意補助的時候我們可能都感謝了一個劇場一個繪本一個作家一個表演有個200萬300萬可能他就是半年的一個收入跟半年的一個支持"},{"start":486.133,"end":505.697,"text":"結果我們過去三年多四年不管是58億不管是40億不管是28億計算基礎不同有些是直接投資有些是人事費用有些是紀錄片但不管怎麼樣這一個計畫已經花了五六十一是不爭的事實那結果現在成效真的不髒啊我們所有文化部的同仁"},{"start":511.179,"end":528.144,"text":"誰手機裡面現在有app是台灣plus過去一個禮拜裡面有開過一次的有的請舉手一下好嗎一位部長啞口無言"},{"start":533.131,"end":547.568,"text":"議員議員"},{"start":547.824,"end":548.004,"text":"閱讀委員會主席"},{"start":569.707,"end":591.1,"text":"那這個部分我們先是另外議題不過現在被我們委員踢爆是說要公視跟華視合資3000萬投資一個新創AI的活動公司那現在董事長華視公視董事長剛好又是同一位就你身邊後面這一位那所以變成是公視要49%華視要51%那還不是都是一樣那我們想問文化部"},{"start":596.189,"end":613.425,"text":"投資AI新創公司很好啊AI新創公司本席支持啊但有需要文化部來做嗎有需要公司來做有需要華視來做嗎那到底這家公司是要做什麼活動執行還是要安排位置部長你現在知道嗎"},{"start":615.276,"end":616.557,"text":"議長,您認為合適嗎?在公事華事的本職本業"},{"start":635.146,"end":647.192,"text":"愧損持續連連的情況突然間還要再拿3000萬再去投資一家新創公司跟本業沒有那麼直接關係而且這個新創公司聽起來是要執行活動他還不是要做內容影視產業"},{"start":649.465,"end":650.645,"text":"您覺得合適嗎?我們沒有辦法內造化。"},{"start":672.052,"end":684.287,"text":"我們公廣集團華氏集團有那麼多優秀同仁沒有辦法來做數位轉型我們還要再去投資另外一家公司盈虧自負找董事長找總經理找經營團隊我要喝一瓶鮮奶我要養一頭牛啊"},{"start":688.993,"end":708.135,"text":"不是啊 你看起來就是這樣子啊我們過去到現在你說要數位轉型本席沒有反對喔本席甚至還看了董事長最近還有到政大還是哪裡也有做相關的演講AI是浪潮本席同意但是重點在於是說你為什麼現在在也許明年你的任期到期"},{"start":709.178,"end":730.209,"text":"在這個時候突然間通過而且15號的董事會除了討論所謂的檢討報告還通過公式投資管理辦法找案幫非公式營業項目的財務性投資開綠燈有沒有這回事?有不過您短化了這個情況因為第一個我們實際上只有融資管理辦法可是另外我們還有關係法人的辦法而且事實上還有基金管理辦法"},{"start":735.112,"end":746.616,"text":"數位轉型本行沒有反對但是你喝一個鮮奶你要養一頭牛那這樣子文化部我們要不要改成農業部啊我們下面都是養牛就好啦來部長部長可以接受嗎"},{"start":750.297,"end":769.318,"text":"一個公司因為他的虧損所以他就不希望他要繼續往前走我從來沒有反對請聽好董事長公視也好華視也好我是在野黨委員但我從來沒有希望華視公視持續虧損我從來沒有希望他停滯不前"},{"start":769.898,"end":769.918,"text":"閱讀委員會"},{"start":788.624,"end":810.551,"text":"除非你已經有商機了否則以現在又百業缺工的情況下你突然間要傳立一家公司然後跟我們講是說這家公司未來盈虧要致富因為要幫我們公司做內部的數位轉型不覺得很奇怪嗎?來董事長我時間有限啦因為下面還有委員要質詢一樣的議題我最後一個問題請教部長就好好不好來部長最後"},{"start":817.401,"end":844.995,"text":"一分鐘現在有這個前委員啊也是歌壇大佬跳出來爆料講說當初有被承諾說要公視董事長華視董事長然後到最後又沒有那本席不禁想到因為剛剛發言的這位胡董事長他任期到明年啊現在11月突然間這個大佬跳出來講這個話是不是有暗示可能希望有爭取這個位置"},{"start":846.004,"end":849.927,"text":"您認為公視董事長或華視董事長可以拿來做人事酬庸使用嗎?"},{"start":875.964,"end":897.346,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":897.866,"end":924.82,"text":"對文化部來講這一點都沒辦法干預這個這我現在講的是實話喔因為我自己曾經做過華視我是自己考試進去的九個人考試我的經驗中我不覺得是外面想像中說我要給誰就給誰我謝謝你問這問題但是本期只一句話啦部長如果說你這樣講的話你就代表是說我們這個前委員他的爆料是無敵放矢他的爆料不是事實"},{"start":926.267,"end":926.307,"text":"議員主席"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":93,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（9時24分）主席謝謝。麻煩請李遠部長，還有胡元輝董事長。"],["主席：李部長跟胡董事長。"],["李部長遠：委員好。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，TaiwanPlus品質比較高，你剛剛親口講的，是不是？"],["李部長遠：不。我是說公共電視整個集團在每個項目，包括戲劇、綜藝、新聞，品質真的是維持……"],["洪委員孟楷：那TaiwanPlus呢？剛剛倩綺委員問的是TaiwanPlus吧？"],["李部長遠：TaiwanPlus當年決定要做全英語頻道，我們也鼓勵它用國際的視野來做所有的新聞，甚至於鼓勵他們做紀錄片。我說它品質高，看是擺在哪一個層級來比，但是我們真的只有第3年，希望大家鼓勵我們。"],["洪委員孟楷：3年了，還要鼓勵多久？這是人民的納稅錢。立法院對於行政部門想要讓世界聽到臺灣的聲音，我們都很鼓勵，但重點是3年了、投了58億，結果世界有聽到臺灣的聲音嗎？如果世界沒有聽到臺灣的聲音，甚至聽到臺灣可能表達錯誤的聲音或是偏頗的聲音，我們會覺得更捏一把冷汗。10號你怎麼講？川普是被定罪的重刑犯，這一則新聞讓文化部長認為事情嚴重，討論後下架。15號說要在公視董事會提出檢討報告，請教文化部長看過檢討報告了嗎？"],["李部長遠：還沒有送上來吧？已經開過會，我是不是請胡董事長回答比較詳細？"],["洪委員孟楷：15號開完會說要提檢討報告，21號、今天要來審文化部的預算，部長難道不認為委員會針對這件事情關心嗎？到現在還沒有看到檢討報告。董事長，為什麼會發生這樣的錯誤，讓文化部長認為這件事情嚴重？"],["胡董事長元輝：這個事情當然有它不妥當的地方，不過我們還是要強調，所謂的用語「a convicted felon」這個字，事實上，全世界的公共媒體，包括英國BBC……"],["洪委員孟楷：不是！你要跟你的長官文化部長強調，你不用跟我強調。今天是文化部長認為事情嚴重，所以你們是不是把這則新聞下架了？"],["胡董事長元輝：我們在8號就已經做適當的處置，包括已經下架。"],["洪委員孟楷：適當的處理就是已經修改、下架嘛？"],["胡董事長元輝：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：15號你們做了檢討報告，檢討為什麼會出現這樣的問題。現在國人問的是，要讓世界聽到臺灣的聲音，但沒想到不只沒有聽到臺灣2,350萬人的主流民意，反而讓大家認為這個就是我們官方的意見、官方的表示。"],["胡董事長元輝：第一個，我們是獨立經營，並不是一個官方的媒體。第二個部分就是我們在處理上，的確當時記者在處理過程中，以歷史的事實來做這樣的說明。我們認為它是個事實，但是這樣的敘述脈絡並不妥當，所以我們就暫行下架。檢討報告在15號的董事會經過討論之後，我們正式把這個部分都已經完成，也會依照公文程序送給文化部，在此之前，我們也已經把相關決議提送給文化部。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以檢討到最後是檢討了誰？"],["胡董事長元輝：我們在處理上一共有6個決議，裡面當然包括委員可能比較關心的，我們在整個作業上，新聞報導對於公共價值的體認夠不夠，這一塊我們決定要加強教育訓練，還有相關準則的訂定。第二個部分，您提到有關……"],["洪委員孟楷：有沒有懲戒？有沒有懲處相關人員？"],["胡董事長元輝：有，因為併合其他的管理疏失，我們對執行長做了記過的處分……"],["洪委員孟楷：就是執行長？"],["胡董事長元輝：對，我們希望他惕勵將來。另外，我們還組成一個專案的小組，這個小組會檢視到底在整個核稿的流程，或者是相關組織體制的運作上，是不是有什麼不合乎公共媒體需求的地方，這個專案小組也會儘快開始運作。"],["洪委員孟楷：3年了，現在才要有檢視流程、審稿的部分。董事長，我說實在，這一些媒體朋友聽到耳裡會笑死。"],["胡董事長元輝：我們都有檢討。"],["洪委員孟楷：TaiwanPlus身為中華民國政府出資的媒體，結果3年了，發生這樣的新聞，現在才說你們會檢視流程以及審稿的過程，這不是最基本的新聞ABC嗎？這不是一開始在開臺的時候就應該有的嗎？這不是過去3年，每一條新聞都應該要處理的嗎？怎麼會到現在才說我們來補破網？部長，我不知道您有沒有看過TaiwanPlus從3年前到現在的維基百科，本席特別幫你整理了一下，維基百科裡面都是爭議事件，好像沒有什麼讓我們很興奮的事件，包括有通共的爭議、收視率低迷、當初誇口說要百萬人次下載，現在只有15萬、16萬人次下載，達成率不到兩成，還有電視臺成立沒有法源依據，以及不當稱呼美國總統候選人等等爭議。TaiwanPlus過去三年多，我們真的不知道它的存在能夠發聲的基礎在哪裡，還有一直講說：哇！我的播放率或是點閱率……我就請教，審計部的資料以及立法院預算中心的資料都說有67%其實是亞洲人下載，沒有細算是哪一個國家，但我真的很懷疑，除了我們臺灣跟中華民國以外，到底還有誰下載？部長，你認為我們現在審議明年預算，因為它是一個延續計畫，還有十幾億的預算，還要持續投入嗎？"],["李部長遠：其實它的預算大概每年8億左右，所以剛剛一直強調58億，其實跟實際上……"],["洪委員孟楷：它是連續三年、四年，從一開始開臺比較多，然後一直降下來，總共58億，但現在是延續型計畫，從113年到117年總共編列40億，不是嗎？"],["李部長遠：28億左右，有些費用是編在那個紀錄片等等，真正用在這個臺本身每年差不多就是8億，您剛剛問到我要不要把它就此停住，我覺得當年要做的目的哪怕是不太理想，可是我們不會親眼把它停掉，可能要加強改進，剛剛講了很多問題，我寧願我們來努力改進，而且剛剛講到流量大概有兩億，其實是有兩億的流量，100萬個粉絲的訂戶……"],["洪委員孟楷：100萬個粉絲，我都不好意思吐槽，到底多少是僵屍粉絲？你有沒有看到它現在一則貼文，你講的是FB，對不對？FB一則貼文有幾個讚？"],["李部長遠：包括YouTube，跟其他的……"],["洪委員孟楷：我都不好意思「吐槽」，不是！部長講28億，好像28億不是錢，28億！你是文化人，過去還沒有擔任部長的時候，文化人聽到不要說28億、甚至280萬，中央願意補助的時候，我們可能都感謝了。一個劇場、一個繪本、一個作家、一個表演有個200萬、300萬，可能就是半年的收入和半年的支持，結果過去三年多、四年，不管是58億、不管是40億、不管是28億，計算基礎不同，有些是直接投資、有些是人事費用、有些是紀錄片，但不管怎麼樣，這個計畫已經花了五、六十億是不爭的事實，結果現在成效真的不彰。","我們所有文化部的同仁，誰手機裡面現在有TaiwanPlus app，過去一個禮拜裡面有開過一次的？有的請舉手一下好嗎？1位。部長，啞口無言，我本來都還幫你開脫，我想說TaiwanPlus的受眾不是我們這些臺灣人，是外國人，連這個開脫，你都沒辦法。","再來，部長，公廣集團的經營真的不是那麼的良善，華視18年來也虧損了40億，甚至我知道華視有一些員工都還持續在陳情有關當初認股的部分，既然華視一直在虧損，所以說他們有一些相關的員工股份沒有辦法分紅，希望政府是不是乾脆編列預算把它收購回去？這個部分是另外一題，不過現在又被我們委員踢爆，說公視跟華視合資3,000萬投資一個新創AI的活動公司，現在華視、公視的董事長剛好又是同一位，就是你身邊後面這一位，所以變成是公視要49%，華視要51%，那還不都是一樣？我們想問，文化部投資AI新創公司很好啊！AI新創公司，本席支持，但有需要文化部來做嗎？有需要公視來做、有需要華視來做嗎？到底這家公司是要做什麼？活動執行還是要安排位置？部長，你現在知道嗎？"],["李部長遠：其實，我們文化部跟公廣集團的關係，它是一個獨立運作的，包括董事的產生、董事長的產生，過程我們都不會干預，最後它的經營方式……"],["洪委員孟楷：我只請教部長，您認為合適嗎？在公視、華視的本職、本業虧損持續連連的情況，突然間還要拿3,000萬再去投資一家新創公司，跟本業沒有那麼直接的關係，而且這個新創公司聽起來是要執行活動，還不是要做內容影視產業，您覺得合適嗎？"],["李部長遠：我想請董事長回答好嗎？因為大家都很關心這個事情。"],["洪委員孟楷：董事長簡短回答。"],["胡董事長元輝：謝謝委員的關心，不過，我要說明一下，我們主要是希望能夠推動公廣集團的數位轉型，所以透過一個在資料行銷、社群行銷、資料分析以及AI應用上面這樣一個創新公司……"],["洪委員孟楷：我們沒有辦法內造化，我們公廣集團、華視集團有那麼多優秀同仁，沒有辦法來做數位轉型？"],["胡董事長元輝：對，因為在創新科技的部分，我們沒有這樣的人才……"],["洪委員孟楷：我們還要再去投資另外一家公司盈虧自負，找董事長、找總經理、找經營團隊……"],["胡董事長元輝：而且我們在制度上也比較不清楚……"],["洪委員孟楷：我要喝一瓶鮮奶，我要養一頭牛？"],["胡董事長元輝：那倒不是這樣的比喻。"],["洪委員孟楷：不是？你看起來就是這樣子。"],["胡董事長元輝：不會，因為事實上我們有很多方面需要這樣做……"],["洪委員孟楷：因為我們過去到現在，你說要數位轉型，本席沒有反對。"],["胡董事長元輝：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：本席甚至還看了董事長最近還有到政大還是哪裡也有做相關的演講。"],["胡董事長元輝：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：AI是浪潮，本席同意，但是重點在於說你為什麼現在在這個時候突然間通過？也許明年你的任期到期，而且15號的董事會除了討論所謂的檢討報告，還通過公視投資管理辦法草案，幫非公視營業項目的財務性投資開綠燈，有沒有這回事？"],["胡董事長元輝：有，不過您簡化了這個情況，因為第一個，我們實際上叫做投資管理辦法，另外我們還有關係法人辦法，事實上還有基金管理辦法……"],["洪委員孟楷：所以變成是本來還有限制，結果你現在再通過一個辦法，通過了之後，你就可以養牛了。數位轉型，本席沒有反對。"],["胡董事長元輝：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：但是你喝一個鮮奶，你要養一頭牛，這樣子文化部要不要改成農業部？我們下面都是養牛就好啦，來，部長。"],["胡董事長元輝：我想這個比喻恐怕不太妥當，跟委員說明一下。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長可以接受嗎？董事長？"],["胡董事長元輝：一個公司因為它的虧損就不希望它要繼續往前走，那這裡面……"],["洪委員孟楷：我從來沒有反對，請聽好，董事長，公視也好、華視也好，我是在野黨委員，但我從來沒有希望華視、公視持續虧損，我從來沒有希望它停滯不前。"],["胡董事長元輝：這我們瞭解。"],["洪委員孟楷：相反的，我監督力道越強，越希望鞭策你們持續往前，但現在重點在於是外界看到這個事情覺得很離譜、覺得很莫名，你想要做的及跟你真的實際做出來的狀況可能會背道而馳、可能反而會更加虧損，除非你已經有商業、已經有商機了，否則以現在又是百業缺工的情況下，突然間你要成立一家公司，然後跟我們講說這家公司未來盈虧要自負，因為要幫公司內部做數位轉型，不覺得很奇怪嗎？"],["胡董事長元輝：這個細節我們可以跟您說明，實際上，我們這整個過程也諮詢過外部的創業……而且所有的董事都是一致支持的。"],["洪委員孟楷：董事長，我時間有限，因為下面還有委員要質詢一樣的議題。我最後一個問題請教部長，好不好？","部長，最後1分鐘，現在有前委員，也是歌壇大老跳出來爆料說當初有被承諾說要公視董事長、華視董事長，然後到最後又沒有。本席不禁想到，因為剛剛發言的這位胡董事長的任期到明年，現在是11月，突然間這位大老跳出來講這個話是不是有暗示可能希望爭取這個位置？您認為公視董事長或華視董事長可以拿來做人事酬庸使用嗎？"],["李部長遠：我謝謝你問這個問題，其實大家都沒有太了解，公共電視董事成立的選用是由立法院先成立一個選拔委員會，然後按政黨比例……"],["洪委員孟楷：我只請教你，你認不認為這個位置可以拿來做酬庸使用？"],["李部長遠：我不認為這麼簡單，因為這個董事的成立是由行政院報到立法院，立法院成立一個審查委員會，以前是要四分之三通過，最近改成三分之二，因為如果用四分之三，我們曾經延宕過500天，500天沒有產生新的董事，請問500天產生不了董事，怎麼會那麼容易產生董事長？我們董事成立之後，再選董事長的時候，在我的經驗中，有跳出好多人來搶這個位置，大家投票的，對文化部來講，一點都沒辦法干預這個，所以我現在講的是實話，因為我自己曾經待過華視，我是自己考試進去的，9個人考試，我的經驗中，我不覺得是外面想像中說我要給誰就給誰，我謝謝你問這個問題……"],["主席：部長是不是會後再把詳細的資料提供給洪委員？"],["洪委員孟楷：好，但是本席只有一句話啦，部長，如果你這樣講的話，就代表這個前委員的爆料是無的放矢，他的爆料不是事實？"],["李部長遠：這點我真的沒辦法……"],["洪委員孟楷：他可以講這一些講得鉅細靡遺、講得那麼清楚，本席只強調，我們任何一個位置都不是酬庸的位置……"],["主席：這部分會後好不好？"],["洪委員孟楷：所以我要求未來如果真的任期到了之後，我們一定會嚴審，專業審查、嚴格把關。"],["李部長遠：會，我們會按照程序。"],["主席：謝謝洪孟楷委員，我們有請李遠部長先回座休息，謝謝。","接下來我們有請柯志恩委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":428,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-9","speakers":["萬美玲","林倩綺","洪孟楷","柯志恩","葉元之","陳秀寳","葛如鈞","陳培瑜","林宜瑾","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","吳春城","范雲","張雅琳","黃國昌","羅智強","羅廷瑋","翁曉玲","吳思瑤","賴惠員","王美惠"],"page_start":359,"meetingDate":["2024-11-21"],"gazette_id":"11310401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310401_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部及所屬單位預算案；二、審查114年度中央政府總\n預算案有關文化部主管國立文化機構作業基金附屬單位預算案；三、審查114年度中央政府總預\n算案有關文化部主管文化發展基金附屬單位預算案；四、審查114年度行政法人國家表演藝術中\n心、文化內容策進院、國家電影及視聽文化中心預算案（僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11310401_00006"}}}