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811.383, \"score\": 0.425}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 811.383, \"end\": 811.403, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 811.403, \"end\": 811.543, \"score\": 0.655}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 811.543, \"end\": 811.563, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 811.563, \"end\": 811.684, \"score\": 0.602}, {\"word\": \"設\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 811.684, \"end\": 811.704, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 811.704, \"end\": 811.724, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"低\", \"start\": 811.724, \"end\": 811.764, \"score\": 0.487}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 811.764, \"end\": 811.784, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"8\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 811.784, \"end\": 811.804, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 811.804, \"end\": 811.824, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 811.824, \"end\": 811.924, \"score\": 0.391}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 811.924, \"end\": 811.944, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 811.944, \"end\": 811.964, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 811.964, \"end\": 812.064, \"score\": 0.645}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"p\", \"start\": 812.064, \"end\": 812.084, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"l\", \"start\": 812.084, \"end\": 812.164, \"score\": 0.503}, {\"word\": \"u\", \"start\": 812.164, \"end\": 812.204, \"score\": 0.496}, {\"word\": \"s\", \"start\": 812.204, \"end\": 812.224, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 812.224, \"end\": 812.244, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 812.244, \"end\": 812.344, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 812.344, \"end\": 812.364, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 812.364, \"end\": 812.404, \"score\": 0.074}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 812.404, \"end\": 812.424, \"score\": 0.091}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"疑\", \"start\": 812.424, \"end\": 812.464, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"8\"}, {\"word\": \"億\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 812.464, \"end\": 812.484, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 812.484, \"end\": 812.504, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 812.504, \"end\": 812.524, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 812.524, \"end\": 812.544, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 812.544, \"end\": 812.625, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"花\", \"start\": 812.625, \"end\": 812.645, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 812.645, \"end\": 812.665, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"幾\"}, {\"word\": \"億\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"科\", \"start\": 821.894, \"end\": 822.014, \"score\": 0.678}, {\"word\": \"智\", \"start\": 822.014, \"end\": 822.034, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"恩\", \"start\": 822.034, \"end\": 822.054, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 822.054, \"end\": 822.074, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,485 --> 00:00:06,986\n李卜長、胡董事長\n\n2\n00:00:19,413 --> 00:00:42,420\n謝謝我今天看到李遠部長跟我們的胡董事長站在一起我真是不禁的非常的感慨過去呢一位就是我們的實務的工作者一位是我們美改的學者今天兩位都握有我們所謂的這個最大的一個權利我們就來看看到底過去你們的理論有沒有辦法化為實務然後成效到底是如何首先我先延續一下我想請問部長\n\n3\n00:00:43,961 --> 00:00:48,829\n黨政軍退出媒體,目前為止你認為這還是美改團體的普世價值嗎?\n\n4\n00:00:49,998 --> 00:01:14,940\n當然是當年我們在2006年黨政軍特殊媒體兩家公媒用標說的方式出去...所以你認為現在這個價值還是存在你也遵守這樣的一個價值但是我們先來看看那剛剛孟愷委員也特別提到了這當然是因為余天我就直接講了嘛因為他說民進黨本來要給我公視但是華視但是呢他說連公視大家都會拿來酬庸\n\n5\n00:01:15,580 --> 00:01:15,680\n閱讀者們的意見\n\n6\n00:01:33,112 --> 00:01:35,214\nadequatetothecurrentpoliticaldebate.\n\n7\n00:01:54,991 --> 00:01:57,273\nadequatetothepublicandprivatesector.\n\n8\n00:02:25,091 --> 00:02:25,191\n議員主席\n\n9\n00:02:37,355 --> 00:02:37,375\n閱讀者﹗\n\n10\n00:02:57,634 --> 00:03:04,416\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。\n\n11\n00:03:26,964 --> 00:03:51,627\n11月15日公式開董事會這件事情你知道嗎?我不知道,我完全不會插手他們的董事會。因為有關投資這個部分,譬如說資產活化,或者投資新公司,它倒備給文化部,文化部有責任要去看。所以他們所做的決定你文化部要不要背書?\n\n12\n00:03:52,688 --> 00:03:57,691\n你要嚴審啊?你要背書吧?如果經過我們審查後當然就背書啊。好,那我看你有沒有審查嘛,我們來看看吧。我就很奇怪,這公館什麼時候變成一個秘密組織的?11月4號還召開所謂的創新創意的會議,而且當初所有的資料都變為機密,開完全部回收。11月10號的時候我有揭露,10月15號又開董事會,不僅很快速的通過投資管理辦法,\n\n13\n00:04:17,242 --> 00:04:20,225\n那有董監事呢他認為看到這項辦法他覺得需要花多一點時間來瞭解但是不被接受最後呢在沒有投票表決的狀況之下立刻通過而且被要求要簽下保密協議董監事也不跟對外發言有沒有這種事什麼時候搞得這麼黑箱了\n\n14\n00:04:34,759 --> 00:04:35,759\n是不是可以請董事長親自回答一下。\n\n15\n00:04:54,212 --> 00:04:54,712\n其實長期因為華視的虧損,你覺得這合情合理合法嗎?\n\n16\n00:05:11,206 --> 00:05:12,947\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。\n\n17\n00:06:10,649 --> 00:06:11,950\n閱讀資料,列為機密,三分之二條款全部鬆綁。\n\n18\n00:06:33,286 --> 00:06:39,290\n然後呢這裡面為什麼我們大家對華視這麼樣子的覺得他是一個非常重要的議案因為土地開發我沒有說任何事情因為我只說他是何其敏感要活化要創新沒有問題但是我們還是要去問往下來看一下因為時間非常的有限公視創立了非常重要的把關的機制你要做任何的投資你必須要佔投資單位的三分之二的限制你在11月15號你把它解除\n\n19\n00:07:02,066 --> 00:07:04,130\n所以說呢你對這樣的所謂的3000萬你要投資這個AI的這個這樣一個層面如果未來為什麼要做這樣的一個條款就是未來萬一倒閉虧損\n\n20\n00:07:13,018 --> 00:07:17,342\n你到底是誰要來負責?所以我說你要設立你要轉型你要做任何的事情我只問部長你認為不認為需要有一個救責條款?否則這都是我們人民的錢啊!都是我們人民的錢啊!而且你放手一搏我只問一個公共服務的價值的設立的宗旨在哪裡?然後呢你剛講了一堆你剛回到紅木改問題回答到一半\n\n21\n00:07:35,060 --> 00:07:38,662\n我們也問啊,成立一個新的公司供廣集團目前有1200個員工,1200個員工找不到任何人可以來做你創新創業的這樣子的一個所謂的活動的執行,你需要額外再成立額外的公司來做這樣的事情嗎?這樣合理嗎?而且你告訴我們你三年之內可以這個損益虧損平衡,你相信嗎?\n\n22\n00:08:19,181 --> 00:08:31,171\n閱讀﹚一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。閱讀﹚一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。閱讀﹚一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。閱讀﹚一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。閱讀﹚一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬\n\n23\n00:08:45,823 --> 00:08:54,746\n所以你要一個這樣子的營運的部分裡面你要來成立一個新的3000萬的公司你說你可以說服我們嗎本業沒有辦法做好你覺得這可以說服我們嗎好吧那請胡董事長你可以一併來做說明\n\n24\n00:09:01,716 --> 00:09:04,620\n我們很快因為從納入公廣集團以來我們的平均虧損是2.5億這幾年您列的虧損都是在虧損平均虧損值以下但是我們的營運成本不斷增加以去年來講\n\n25\n00:09:18,197 --> 00:09:22,098\n我們去年比前年的利息支出就增加了兩千多萬,兩千六百多萬。對,我們已經在縮短。對,所以我們要負責任地做這件事情。對。\n\n26\n00:09:47,725 --> 00:09:58,549\n况且在整個的過程當中到底我剛剛所提到的有需要這麼樣秘密有需要這麼黑箱有需要這麼樣的保密不准外洩嗎?我們所有的董事都開過專案會議而且各項的會議包括我們施董董事的董董事的董董事都說當仁不讓這件事情當仁不讓我們一定要積極\n\n27\n00:10:08,232 --> 00:10:15,919\n對不起喔,你要積極的推動的話,你也要說服我們立法院給你要不要給你證字。你要不要給我們這筆3000萬,因為到目前為止我還看不到出一個端倪。因為剛剛我所提出的問題你們還沒有辦法給我解決。最後我利用最短的時間來問一下文化部。那個我們小野部長,你知道台灣plus在第幾個頻道嗎?\n\n28\n00:10:31,013 --> 00:10:33,214\n五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。\n\n29\n00:10:51,676 --> 00:10:56,217\n大概200多吧?100多200多頂多一個台中的台中的給你個80幾的那這個部分是所有的委員都會看到的我還是特別強調你看公司的基金的預的收入那個短處從110年到現在不斷的短處是這麼樣的多往下還有最重要的是我還是回應一下真的你們所給我們的這個資訊當中然後呢告訴我們說臺灣這個東西跟臺灣的主流媒體我們的臺灣plus\n\n30\n00:11:21,144 --> 00:11:39,777\nJudge1、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。JUDGE1、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。JUDGE2、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。JUDGE1、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。JUDGE2、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。JUDGE2、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有\n\n31\n00:11:46,860 --> 00:11:57,803\nadequa公共全世界最著名的電視台同一個OTD平台我們的收視率是第三名你收視率第三名部長你要不要去看看真實的收視率一下好不好你不要每次都看到這個資訊你光是看到這個部分裡面你看它每一次的不管在YouTube在任何地方你的按讚數各方面你真的還是要看看事實雖然你都比較看文字的但是這個媒體的部分\n\n32\n00:12:15,367 --> 00:12:25,171\n而且這裡面你告訴我用英文但是你看這個比率出來嘛很清楚嘛亞洲的比率最高嘛收看的比率最高嘛他的這個收看率其實沒有你想像中那麼多你真的應該看看是事實而且亞洲特別是印度好不好台灣群眾看得最多我們往下來看\n\n33\n00:12:31,474 --> 00:12:31,494\n閱讀中﹗\n\n34\n00:13:03,650 --> 00:13:03,670\n閱讀委員會議\n\n35\n00:13:19,471 --> 00:13:32,665\n你看,你們委託第三公司來辦理的這樣子的一個滿意度,連台籍的人士滿意度都不到80,你們設定80,但是呢你看,在台的外籍人士是我們最大的target,他就認為對於節目的滿意度都還不到你們所設定很低的80。這些都是我們對於台灣plus非常大的一個質疑。58億,但是你們現在只花了20幾億。\n\n36\n00:13:41,894 --> 00:13:42,074\n謝謝科智恩委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6485\t6986\t李卜長、胡董事長\n19413\t42420\t謝謝我今天看到李遠部長跟我們的胡董事長站在一起我真是不禁的非常的感慨過去呢一位就是我們的實務的工作者一位是我們美改的學者今天兩位都握有我們所謂的這個最大的一個權利我們就來看看到底過去你們的理論有沒有辦法化為實務然後成效到底是如何首先我先延續一下我想請問部長\n43961\t48829\t黨政軍退出媒體,目前為止你認為這還是美改團體的普世價值嗎?\n49998\t74940\t當然是當年我們在2006年黨政軍特殊媒體兩家公媒用標說的方式出去...所以你認為現在這個價值還是存在你也遵守這樣的一個價值但是我們先來看看那剛剛孟愷委員也特別提到了這當然是因為余天我就直接講了嘛因為他說民進黨本來要給我公視但是華視但是呢他說連公視大家都會拿來酬庸\n75580\t75680\t閱讀者們的意見\n93112\t95214\tadequate to the current political debate.\n114991\t117273\tadequate to the public and private sector.\n145091\t145191\t議員主席\n157355\t157375\t閱讀者﹗\n177634\t184416\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。\n206964\t231627\t11月15日公式開董事會這件事情你知道嗎?我不知道,我完全不會插手他們的董事會。因為有關投資這個部分,譬如說資產活化,或者投資新公司,它倒備給文化部,文化部有責任要去看。所以他們所做的決定你文化部要不要背書?\n232688\t237691\t你要嚴審啊?你要背書吧?如果經過我們審查後當然就背書啊。好,那我看你有沒有審查嘛,我們來看看吧。我就很奇怪,這公館什麼時候變成一個秘密組織的?11月4號還召開所謂的創新創意的會議,而且當初所有的資料都變為機密,開完全部回收。11月10號的時候我有揭露,10月15號又開董事會,不僅很快速的通過投資管理辦法,\n257242\t260225\t那有董監事呢他認為看到這項辦法他覺得需要花多一點時間來瞭解但是不被接受最後呢在沒有投票表決的狀況之下立刻通過而且被要求要簽下保密協議董監事也不跟對外發言有沒有這種事什麼時候搞得這麼黑箱了\n274759\t275759\t是不是可以請董事長親自回答一下。\n294212\t294712\t其實長期因為華視的虧損,你覺得這合情合理合法嗎?\n311206\t312947\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。\n340589\t370589\t\n370649\t371950\t閱讀資料,列為機密,三分之二條款全部鬆綁。\n393286\t399290\t然後呢這裡面為什麼我們大家對華視這麼樣子的覺得他是一個非常重要的議案因為土地開發我沒有說任何事情因為我只說他是何其敏感要活化要創新沒有問題但是我們還是要去問往下來看一下因為時間非常的有限公視創立了非常重要的把關的機制你要做任何的投資你必須要佔投資單位的三分之二的限制你在11月15號你把它解除\n422066\t424130\t所以說呢你對這樣的所謂的3000萬你要投資這個AI的這個這樣一個層面如果未來為什麼要做這樣的一個條款就是未來萬一倒閉虧損\n433018\t437342\t你到底是誰要來負責?所以我說你要設立你要轉型你要做任何的事情我只問部長你認為不認為需要有一個救責條款?否則這都是我們人民的錢啊!都是我們人民的錢啊!而且你放手一搏我只問一個公共服務的價值的設立的宗旨在哪裡?然後呢你剛講了一堆你剛回到紅木改問題回答到一半\n455060\t458662\t我們也問啊,成立一個新的公司供廣集團目前有1200個員工,1200個員工找不到任何人可以來做你創新創業的這樣子的一個所謂的活動的執行,你需要額外再成立額外的公司來做這樣的事情嗎?這樣合理嗎?而且你告訴我們你三年之內可以這個損益虧損平衡,你相信嗎?\n480111\t499121\t\n499181\t511171\t閱讀﹚一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。閱讀﹚一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。閱讀﹚一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。閱讀﹚一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。閱讀﹚一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬\n525823\t534746\t所以你要一個這樣子的營運的部分裡面你要來成立一個新的3000萬的公司你說你可以說服我們嗎本業沒有辦法做好你覺得這可以說服我們嗎好吧那請胡董事長你可以一併來做說明\n541716\t544620\t我們很快因為從納入公廣集團以來我們的平均虧損是2.5億這幾年您列的虧損都是在虧損平均虧損值以下但是我們的營運成本不斷增加以去年來講\n558197\t562098\t我們去年比前年的利息支出就增加了兩千多萬,兩千六百多萬。對,我們已經在縮短。對,所以我們要負責任地做這件事情。對。\n587725\t598549\t况且在整個的過程當中到底我剛剛所提到的有需要這麼樣秘密有需要這麼黑箱有需要這麼樣的保密不准外洩嗎?我們所有的董事都開過專案會議而且各項的會議包括我們施董董事的董董事的董董事都說當仁不讓這件事情當仁不讓我們一定要積極\n608232\t615919\t對不起喔,你要積極的推動的話,你也要說服我們立法院給你要不要給你證字。你要不要給我們這筆3000萬,因為到目前為止我還看不到出一個端倪。因為剛剛我所提出的問題你們還沒有辦法給我解決。最後我利用最短的時間來問一下文化部。那個我們小野部長,你知道台灣plus在第幾個頻道嗎?\n631013\t633214\t五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。\n651676\t656217\t大概200多吧?100多200多頂多一個台中的台中的給你個80幾的那這個部分是所有的委員都會看到的我還是特別強調你看公司的基金的預的收入那個短處從110年到現在不斷的短處是這麼樣的多往下還有最重要的是我還是回應一下真的你們所給我們的這個資訊當中然後呢告訴我們說臺灣這個東西跟臺灣的主流媒體我們的臺灣plus\n681144\t699777\tJudge 1、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。 JUDGE 1、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。 JUDGE 2、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。 JUDGE 1、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。 JUDGE 2、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。 JUDGE 2、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有\n706860\t717803\tadequa公共全世界最著名的電視台同一個OTD平台我們的收視率是第三名你收視率第三名部長你要不要去看看真實的收視率一下好不好你不要每次都看到這個資訊你光是看到這個部分裡面你看它每一次的不管在YouTube在任何地方你的按讚數各方面你真的還是要看看事實雖然你都比較看文字的但是這個媒體的部分\n735367\t745171\t而且這裡面你告訴我用英文但是你看這個比率出來嘛很清楚嘛亞洲的比率最高嘛收看的比率最高嘛他的這個收看率其實沒有你想像中那麼多你真的應該看看是事實而且亞洲特別是印度好不好台灣群眾看得最多我們往下來看\n751474\t751494\t閱讀中﹗\n767363\t783490\t\n783650\t783670\t閱讀委員會議\n799471\t812665\t你看,你們委託第三公司來辦理的這樣子的一個滿意度,連台籍的人士滿意度都不到80,你們設定80,但是呢你看,在台的外籍人士是我們最大的target,他就認為對於節目的滿意度都還不到你們所設定很低的80。這些都是我們對於台灣plus非常大的一個質疑。58億,但是你們現在只花了20幾億。\n821894\t822074\t謝謝科智恩委員\n","txt":"李卜長、胡董事長\n謝謝我今天看到李遠部長跟我們的胡董事長站在一起我真是不禁的非常的感慨過去呢一位就是我們的實務的工作者一位是我們美改的學者今天兩位都握有我們所謂的這個最大的一個權利我們就來看看到底過去你們的理論有沒有辦法化為實務然後成效到底是如何首先我先延續一下我想請問部長\n黨政軍退出媒體,目前為止你認為這還是美改團體的普世價值嗎?\n當然是當年我們在2006年黨政軍特殊媒體兩家公媒用標說的方式出去...所以你認為現在這個價值還是存在你也遵守這樣的一個價值但是我們先來看看那剛剛孟愷委員也特別提到了這當然是因為余天我就直接講了嘛因為他說民進黨本來要給我公視但是華視但是呢他說連公視大家都會拿來酬庸\n閱讀者們的意見\nadequate to the current political debate.\nadequate to the public and private sector.\n議員主席\n閱讀者﹗\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。\n11月15日公式開董事會這件事情你知道嗎?我不知道,我完全不會插手他們的董事會。因為有關投資這個部分,譬如說資產活化,或者投資新公司,它倒備給文化部,文化部有責任要去看。所以他們所做的決定你文化部要不要背書?\n你要嚴審啊?你要背書吧?如果經過我們審查後當然就背書啊。好,那我看你有沒有審查嘛,我們來看看吧。我就很奇怪,這公館什麼時候變成一個秘密組織的?11月4號還召開所謂的創新創意的會議,而且當初所有的資料都變為機密,開完全部回收。11月10號的時候我有揭露,10月15號又開董事會,不僅很快速的通過投資管理辦法,\n那有董監事呢他認為看到這項辦法他覺得需要花多一點時間來瞭解但是不被接受最後呢在沒有投票表決的狀況之下立刻通過而且被要求要簽下保密協議董監事也不跟對外發言有沒有這種事什麼時候搞得這麼黑箱了\n是不是可以請董事長親自回答一下。\n其實長期因為華視的虧損,你覺得這合情合理合法嗎?\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。\n\n閱讀資料,列為機密,三分之二條款全部鬆綁。\n然後呢這裡面為什麼我們大家對華視這麼樣子的覺得他是一個非常重要的議案因為土地開發我沒有說任何事情因為我只說他是何其敏感要活化要創新沒有問題但是我們還是要去問往下來看一下因為時間非常的有限公視創立了非常重要的把關的機制你要做任何的投資你必須要佔投資單位的三分之二的限制你在11月15號你把它解除\n所以說呢你對這樣的所謂的3000萬你要投資這個AI的這個這樣一個層面如果未來為什麼要做這樣的一個條款就是未來萬一倒閉虧損\n你到底是誰要來負責?所以我說你要設立你要轉型你要做任何的事情我只問部長你認為不認為需要有一個救責條款?否則這都是我們人民的錢啊!都是我們人民的錢啊!而且你放手一搏我只問一個公共服務的價值的設立的宗旨在哪裡?然後呢你剛講了一堆你剛回到紅木改問題回答到一半\n我們也問啊,成立一個新的公司供廣集團目前有1200個員工,1200個員工找不到任何人可以來做你創新創業的這樣子的一個所謂的活動的執行,你需要額外再成立額外的公司來做這樣的事情嗎?這樣合理嗎?而且你告訴我們你三年之內可以這個損益虧損平衡,你相信嗎?\n\n閱讀﹚一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。閱讀﹚一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。閱讀﹚一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。閱讀﹚一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。閱讀﹚一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬\n所以你要一個這樣子的營運的部分裡面你要來成立一個新的3000萬的公司你說你可以說服我們嗎本業沒有辦法做好你覺得這可以說服我們嗎好吧那請胡董事長你可以一併來做說明\n我們很快因為從納入公廣集團以來我們的平均虧損是2.5億這幾年您列的虧損都是在虧損平均虧損值以下但是我們的營運成本不斷增加以去年來講\n我們去年比前年的利息支出就增加了兩千多萬,兩千六百多萬。對,我們已經在縮短。對,所以我們要負責任地做這件事情。對。\n况且在整個的過程當中到底我剛剛所提到的有需要這麼樣秘密有需要這麼黑箱有需要這麼樣的保密不准外洩嗎?我們所有的董事都開過專案會議而且各項的會議包括我們施董董事的董董事的董董事都說當仁不讓這件事情當仁不讓我們一定要積極\n對不起喔,你要積極的推動的話,你也要說服我們立法院給你要不要給你證字。你要不要給我們這筆3000萬,因為到目前為止我還看不到出一個端倪。因為剛剛我所提出的問題你們還沒有辦法給我解決。最後我利用最短的時間來問一下文化部。那個我們小野部長,你知道台灣plus在第幾個頻道嗎?\n五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。\n大概200多吧?100多200多頂多一個台中的台中的給你個80幾的那這個部分是所有的委員都會看到的我還是特別強調你看公司的基金的預的收入那個短處從110年到現在不斷的短處是這麼樣的多往下還有最重要的是我還是回應一下真的你們所給我們的這個資訊當中然後呢告訴我們說臺灣這個東西跟臺灣的主流媒體我們的臺灣plus\nJudge 1、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。 JUDGE 1、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。 JUDGE 2、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。 JUDGE 1、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。 JUDGE 2、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。 JUDGE 2、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有\nadequa公共全世界最著名的電視台同一個OTD平台我們的收視率是第三名你收視率第三名部長你要不要去看看真實的收視率一下好不好你不要每次都看到這個資訊你光是看到這個部分裡面你看它每一次的不管在YouTube在任何地方你的按讚數各方面你真的還是要看看事實雖然你都比較看文字的但是這個媒體的部分\n而且這裡面你告訴我用英文但是你看這個比率出來嘛很清楚嘛亞洲的比率最高嘛收看的比率最高嘛他的這個收看率其實沒有你想像中那麼多你真的應該看看是事實而且亞洲特別是印度好不好台灣群眾看得最多我們往下來看\n閱讀中﹗\n\n閱讀委員會議\n你看,你們委託第三公司來辦理的這樣子的一個滿意度,連台籍的人士滿意度都不到80,你們設定80,但是呢你看,在台的外籍人士是我們最大的target,他就認為對於節目的滿意度都還不到你們所設定很低的80。這些都是我們對於台灣plus非常大的一個質疑。58億,但是你們現在只花了20幾億。\n謝謝科智恩委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.485 --> 00:06.986\n李卜長、胡董事長\n\n00:19.413 --> 00:42.420\n謝謝我今天看到李遠部長跟我們的胡董事長站在一起我真是不禁的非常的感慨過去呢一位就是我們的實務的工作者一位是我們美改的學者今天兩位都握有我們所謂的這個最大的一個權利我們就來看看到底過去你們的理論有沒有辦法化為實務然後成效到底是如何首先我先延續一下我想請問部長\n\n00:43.961 --> 00:48.829\n黨政軍退出媒體,目前為止你認為這還是美改團體的普世價值嗎?\n\n00:49.998 --> 01:14.940\n當然是當年我們在2006年黨政軍特殊媒體兩家公媒用標說的方式出去...所以你認為現在這個價值還是存在你也遵守這樣的一個價值但是我們先來看看那剛剛孟愷委員也特別提到了這當然是因為余天我就直接講了嘛因為他說民進黨本來要給我公視但是華視但是呢他說連公視大家都會拿來酬庸\n\n01:15.580 --> 01:15.680\n閱讀者們的意見\n\n01:33.112 --> 01:35.214\nadequatetothecurrentpoliticaldebate.\n\n01:54.991 --> 01:57.273\nadequatetothepublicandprivatesector.\n\n02:25.091 --> 02:25.191\n議員主席\n\n02:37.355 --> 02:37.375\n閱讀者﹗\n\n02:57.634 --> 03:04.416\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。\n\n03:26.964 --> 03:51.627\n11月15日公式開董事會這件事情你知道嗎?我不知道,我完全不會插手他們的董事會。因為有關投資這個部分,譬如說資產活化,或者投資新公司,它倒備給文化部,文化部有責任要去看。所以他們所做的決定你文化部要不要背書?\n\n03:52.688 --> 03:57.691\n你要嚴審啊?你要背書吧?如果經過我們審查後當然就背書啊。好,那我看你有沒有審查嘛,我們來看看吧。我就很奇怪,這公館什麼時候變成一個秘密組織的?11月4號還召開所謂的創新創意的會議,而且當初所有的資料都變為機密,開完全部回收。11月10號的時候我有揭露,10月15號又開董事會,不僅很快速的通過投資管理辦法,\n\n04:17.242 --> 04:20.225\n那有董監事呢他認為看到這項辦法他覺得需要花多一點時間來瞭解但是不被接受最後呢在沒有投票表決的狀況之下立刻通過而且被要求要簽下保密協議董監事也不跟對外發言有沒有這種事什麼時候搞得這麼黑箱了\n\n04:34.759 --> 04:35.759\n是不是可以請董事長親自回答一下。\n\n04:54.212 --> 04:54.712\n其實長期因為華視的虧損,你覺得這合情合理合法嗎?\n\n05:11.206 --> 05:12.947\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。\n\n06:10.649 --> 06:11.950\n閱讀資料,列為機密,三分之二條款全部鬆綁。\n\n06:33.286 --> 06:39.290\n然後呢這裡面為什麼我們大家對華視這麼樣子的覺得他是一個非常重要的議案因為土地開發我沒有說任何事情因為我只說他是何其敏感要活化要創新沒有問題但是我們還是要去問往下來看一下因為時間非常的有限公視創立了非常重要的把關的機制你要做任何的投資你必須要佔投資單位的三分之二的限制你在11月15號你把它解除\n\n07:02.066 --> 07:04.130\n所以說呢你對這樣的所謂的3000萬你要投資這個AI的這個這樣一個層面如果未來為什麼要做這樣的一個條款就是未來萬一倒閉虧損\n\n07:13.018 --> 07:17.342\n你到底是誰要來負責?所以我說你要設立你要轉型你要做任何的事情我只問部長你認為不認為需要有一個救責條款?否則這都是我們人民的錢啊!都是我們人民的錢啊!而且你放手一搏我只問一個公共服務的價值的設立的宗旨在哪裡?然後呢你剛講了一堆你剛回到紅木改問題回答到一半\n\n07:35.060 --> 07:38.662\n我們也問啊,成立一個新的公司供廣集團目前有1200個員工,1200個員工找不到任何人可以來做你創新創業的這樣子的一個所謂的活動的執行,你需要額外再成立額外的公司來做這樣的事情嗎?這樣合理嗎?而且你告訴我們你三年之內可以這個損益虧損平衡,你相信嗎?\n\n08:19.181 --> 08:31.171\n閱讀﹚一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。閱讀﹚一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。閱讀﹚一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。閱讀﹚一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。閱讀﹚一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬\n\n08:45.823 --> 08:54.746\n所以你要一個這樣子的營運的部分裡面你要來成立一個新的3000萬的公司你說你可以說服我們嗎本業沒有辦法做好你覺得這可以說服我們嗎好吧那請胡董事長你可以一併來做說明\n\n09:01.716 --> 09:04.620\n我們很快因為從納入公廣集團以來我們的平均虧損是2.5億這幾年您列的虧損都是在虧損平均虧損值以下但是我們的營運成本不斷增加以去年來講\n\n09:18.197 --> 09:22.098\n我們去年比前年的利息支出就增加了兩千多萬,兩千六百多萬。對,我們已經在縮短。對,所以我們要負責任地做這件事情。對。\n\n09:47.725 --> 09:58.549\n况且在整個的過程當中到底我剛剛所提到的有需要這麼樣秘密有需要這麼黑箱有需要這麼樣的保密不准外洩嗎?我們所有的董事都開過專案會議而且各項的會議包括我們施董董事的董董事的董董事都說當仁不讓這件事情當仁不讓我們一定要積極\n\n10:08.232 --> 10:15.919\n對不起喔,你要積極的推動的話,你也要說服我們立法院給你要不要給你證字。你要不要給我們這筆3000萬,因為到目前為止我還看不到出一個端倪。因為剛剛我所提出的問題你們還沒有辦法給我解決。最後我利用最短的時間來問一下文化部。那個我們小野部長,你知道台灣plus在第幾個頻道嗎?\n\n10:31.013 --> 10:33.214\n五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。\n\n10:51.676 --> 10:56.217\n大概200多吧?100多200多頂多一個台中的台中的給你個80幾的那這個部分是所有的委員都會看到的我還是特別強調你看公司的基金的預的收入那個短處從110年到現在不斷的短處是這麼樣的多往下還有最重要的是我還是回應一下真的你們所給我們的這個資訊當中然後呢告訴我們說臺灣這個東西跟臺灣的主流媒體我們的臺灣plus\n\n11:21.144 --> 11:39.777\nJudge1、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。JUDGE1、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。JUDGE2、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。JUDGE1、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。JUDGE2、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。JUDGE2、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有\n\n11:46.860 --> 11:57.803\nadequa公共全世界最著名的電視台同一個OTD平台我們的收視率是第三名你收視率第三名部長你要不要去看看真實的收視率一下好不好你不要每次都看到這個資訊你光是看到這個部分裡面你看它每一次的不管在YouTube在任何地方你的按讚數各方面你真的還是要看看事實雖然你都比較看文字的但是這個媒體的部分\n\n12:15.367 --> 12:25.171\n而且這裡面你告訴我用英文但是你看這個比率出來嘛很清楚嘛亞洲的比率最高嘛收看的比率最高嘛他的這個收看率其實沒有你想像中那麼多你真的應該看看是事實而且亞洲特別是印度好不好台灣群眾看得最多我們往下來看\n\n12:31.474 --> 12:31.494\n閱讀中﹗\n\n13:03.650 --> 13:03.670\n閱讀委員會議\n\n13:19.471 --> 13:32.665\n你看,你們委託第三公司來辦理的這樣子的一個滿意度,連台籍的人士滿意度都不到80,你們設定80,但是呢你看,在台的外籍人士是我們最大的target,他就認為對於節目的滿意度都還不到你們所設定很低的80。這些都是我們對於台灣plus非常大的一個質疑。58億,但是你們現在只花了20幾億。\n\n13:41.894 --> 13:42.074\n謝謝科智恩委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.485,"end":6.986,"text":"李卜長、胡董事長"},{"start":19.413,"end":42.42,"text":"謝謝我今天看到李遠部長跟我們的胡董事長站在一起我真是不禁的非常的感慨過去呢一位就是我們的實務的工作者一位是我們美改的學者今天兩位都握有我們所謂的這個最大的一個權利我們就來看看到底過去你們的理論有沒有辦法化為實務然後成效到底是如何首先我先延續一下我想請問部長"},{"start":43.961,"end":48.829,"text":"黨政軍退出媒體,目前為止你認為這還是美改團體的普世價值嗎?"},{"start":49.998,"end":74.94,"text":"當然是當年我們在2006年黨政軍特殊媒體兩家公媒用標說的方式出去...所以你認為現在這個價值還是存在你也遵守這樣的一個價值但是我們先來看看那剛剛孟愷委員也特別提到了這當然是因為余天我就直接講了嘛因為他說民進黨本來要給我公視但是華視但是呢他說連公視大家都會拿來酬庸"},{"start":75.58,"end":75.68,"text":"閱讀者們的意見"},{"start":93.112,"end":95.214,"text":"adequate to the current political debate."},{"start":114.991,"end":117.273,"text":"adequate to the public and private sector."},{"start":145.091,"end":145.191,"text":"議員主席"},{"start":157.355,"end":157.375,"text":"閱讀者﹗"},{"start":177.634,"end":184.416,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。"},{"start":206.964,"end":231.627,"text":"11月15日公式開董事會這件事情你知道嗎?我不知道,我完全不會插手他們的董事會。因為有關投資這個部分,譬如說資產活化,或者投資新公司,它倒備給文化部,文化部有責任要去看。所以他們所做的決定你文化部要不要背書?"},{"start":232.688,"end":237.691,"text":"你要嚴審啊?你要背書吧?如果經過我們審查後當然就背書啊。好,那我看你有沒有審查嘛,我們來看看吧。我就很奇怪,這公館什麼時候變成一個秘密組織的?11月4號還召開所謂的創新創意的會議,而且當初所有的資料都變為機密,開完全部回收。11月10號的時候我有揭露,10月15號又開董事會,不僅很快速的通過投資管理辦法,"},{"start":257.242,"end":260.225,"text":"那有董監事呢他認為看到這項辦法他覺得需要花多一點時間來瞭解但是不被接受最後呢在沒有投票表決的狀況之下立刻通過而且被要求要簽下保密協議董監事也不跟對外發言有沒有這種事什麼時候搞得這麼黑箱了"},{"start":274.759,"end":275.759,"text":"是不是可以請董事長親自回答一下。"},{"start":294.212,"end":294.712,"text":"其實長期因為華視的虧損,你覺得這合情合理合法嗎?"},{"start":311.206,"end":312.947,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。"},{"start":340.589,"end":370.589,"text":""},{"start":370.649,"end":371.95,"text":"閱讀資料,列為機密,三分之二條款全部鬆綁。"},{"start":393.286,"end":399.29,"text":"然後呢這裡面為什麼我們大家對華視這麼樣子的覺得他是一個非常重要的議案因為土地開發我沒有說任何事情因為我只說他是何其敏感要活化要創新沒有問題但是我們還是要去問往下來看一下因為時間非常的有限公視創立了非常重要的把關的機制你要做任何的投資你必須要佔投資單位的三分之二的限制你在11月15號你把它解除"},{"start":422.066,"end":424.13,"text":"所以說呢你對這樣的所謂的3000萬你要投資這個AI的這個這樣一個層面如果未來為什麼要做這樣的一個條款就是未來萬一倒閉虧損"},{"start":433.018,"end":437.342,"text":"你到底是誰要來負責?所以我說你要設立你要轉型你要做任何的事情我只問部長你認為不認為需要有一個救責條款?否則這都是我們人民的錢啊!都是我們人民的錢啊!而且你放手一搏我只問一個公共服務的價值的設立的宗旨在哪裡?然後呢你剛講了一堆你剛回到紅木改問題回答到一半"},{"start":455.06,"end":458.662,"text":"我們也問啊,成立一個新的公司供廣集團目前有1200個員工,1200個員工找不到任何人可以來做你創新創業的這樣子的一個所謂的活動的執行,你需要額外再成立額外的公司來做這樣的事情嗎?這樣合理嗎?而且你告訴我們你三年之內可以這個損益虧損平衡,你相信嗎?"},{"start":480.111,"end":499.121,"text":""},{"start":499.181,"end":511.171,"text":"閱讀﹚一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。閱讀﹚一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。閱讀﹚一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。閱讀﹚一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。閱讀﹚一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬"},{"start":525.823,"end":534.746,"text":"所以你要一個這樣子的營運的部分裡面你要來成立一個新的3000萬的公司你說你可以說服我們嗎本業沒有辦法做好你覺得這可以說服我們嗎好吧那請胡董事長你可以一併來做說明"},{"start":541.716,"end":544.62,"text":"我們很快因為從納入公廣集團以來我們的平均虧損是2.5億這幾年您列的虧損都是在虧損平均虧損值以下但是我們的營運成本不斷增加以去年來講"},{"start":558.197,"end":562.098,"text":"我們去年比前年的利息支出就增加了兩千多萬,兩千六百多萬。對,我們已經在縮短。對,所以我們要負責任地做這件事情。對。"},{"start":587.725,"end":598.549,"text":"况且在整個的過程當中到底我剛剛所提到的有需要這麼樣秘密有需要這麼黑箱有需要這麼樣的保密不准外洩嗎?我們所有的董事都開過專案會議而且各項的會議包括我們施董董事的董董事的董董事都說當仁不讓這件事情當仁不讓我們一定要積極"},{"start":608.232,"end":615.919,"text":"對不起喔,你要積極的推動的話,你也要說服我們立法院給你要不要給你證字。你要不要給我們這筆3000萬,因為到目前為止我還看不到出一個端倪。因為剛剛我所提出的問題你們還沒有辦法給我解決。最後我利用最短的時間來問一下文化部。那個我們小野部長,你知道台灣plus在第幾個頻道嗎?"},{"start":631.013,"end":633.214,"text":"五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。"},{"start":651.676,"end":656.217,"text":"大概200多吧?100多200多頂多一個台中的台中的給你個80幾的那這個部分是所有的委員都會看到的我還是特別強調你看公司的基金的預的收入那個短處從110年到現在不斷的短處是這麼樣的多往下還有最重要的是我還是回應一下真的你們所給我們的這個資訊當中然後呢告訴我們說臺灣這個東西跟臺灣的主流媒體我們的臺灣plus"},{"start":681.144,"end":699.777,"text":"Judge 1、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。 JUDGE 1、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。 JUDGE 2、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。 JUDGE 1、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。 JUDGE 2、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化基金附屬單位預算案。 JUDGE 2、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有"},{"start":706.86,"end":717.803,"text":"adequa公共全世界最著名的電視台同一個OTD平台我們的收視率是第三名你收視率第三名部長你要不要去看看真實的收視率一下好不好你不要每次都看到這個資訊你光是看到這個部分裡面你看它每一次的不管在YouTube在任何地方你的按讚數各方面你真的還是要看看事實雖然你都比較看文字的但是這個媒體的部分"},{"start":735.367,"end":745.171,"text":"而且這裡面你告訴我用英文但是你看這個比率出來嘛很清楚嘛亞洲的比率最高嘛收看的比率最高嘛他的這個收看率其實沒有你想像中那麼多你真的應該看看是事實而且亞洲特別是印度好不好台灣群眾看得最多我們往下來看"},{"start":751.474,"end":751.494,"text":"閱讀中﹗"},{"start":767.363,"end":783.49,"text":""},{"start":783.65,"end":783.67,"text":"閱讀委員會議"},{"start":799.471,"end":812.665,"text":"你看,你們委託第三公司來辦理的這樣子的一個滿意度,連台籍的人士滿意度都不到80,你們設定80,但是呢你看,在台的外籍人士是我們最大的target,他就認為對於節目的滿意度都還不到你們所設定很低的80。這些都是我們對於台灣plus非常大的一個質疑。58億,但是你們現在只花了20幾億。"},{"start":821.894,"end":822.074,"text":"謝謝科智恩委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":170,"blocks":[["柯委員志恩：（9時40分）謝謝召委。我們是不是請部長跟公視胡董事長？"],["主席：好，李部長跟胡董事長。"],["柯委員志恩：謝謝。我今天看到李遠部長跟胡董事長站在一起，不禁非常感慨。過去一位是實務工作者，一位是媒改的學者，今天兩位都握有所謂最大的權力，我們就來看看：到底你們過去的理論有沒有辦法化為實務，成效到底如何？","首先我先延續一下，我想請問部長，黨政軍退出媒體，目前為止你認為這還是媒改團體的普世價值嗎？"],["李部長遠：是，當年我們在……2006年，黨政軍退出媒體，兩家公媒用標售的方式……"],["柯委員志恩：你認為現在這個價值還是存在……"],["李部長遠：當然存在。"],["柯委員志恩：你也遵守這樣一個價值？"],["李部長遠：對、對、對。"],["柯委員志恩：但是我們先來看看，剛剛孟楷委員也特別提到，這當然是因為余天，我就直接講了嘛，因為他說民進黨本來要給他公視、華視。連公視大家都會拿來酬庸！但是部長剛剛不認同這樣的說法，你認為立法院還是有一個監督的機制，那麼我們就來看看，到底為什麼這位大老會有這樣的說法。因為明年之後可能就會有一個比較明確的結果，如果是這樣子的話，這位民進黨的大老對於他的言詞可能要好好地……還是民進黨高層曾經promise他什麼東西，以致他講話這麼直接。但我還是要提醒，在7月31日兩位NCC卸任委員就砲轟，說我們臺灣已經走向政媒集團化，這是臺灣民主非常大的危機。其實你也可以看出目前的政論節目完全反映這樣一個事實，早上執政黨在說些什麼，晚上……或者是他們要把一個人設摧毀或是做什麼事情，可以兩、三個月連續不斷用一條龍的方法去做到，這是商業媒體。但是我們來問公視。我想請問一下，小野部長，你剛說了，你當初在2006年當了9個月的華視總經理，然後你憤而辭職是因為你受不了公視對華視的干預，把華視搞得四不像。現在過了18年，你和董事長再次重逢，一個是董事長，一個是文化部長，公廣集團的資源還是這麼樣大！我想請問部長，你覺得你對公視有多大的影響力？對於公視所謂的獨立自主，你覺得你管得到嗎？"],["李部長遠：我完全沒有影響力，為什麼？因為當初成立公廣集團的目的就是脫離政府的控制，所以大家一直誤會，要求我怎麼對公共電視……"],["柯委員志恩：好，那下次審查文化部預算，公廣集團就應該離開，不要每次審預算都跟文化部綁標綁在一起，我們問公視的事情，都要問到文化部長，如果是這樣子的話……"],["李部長遠：因為它是一個行政法人，我們負責編預算，但是我們不能干預它。"],["柯委員志恩：喔，你負責編預算，所以某種程度你還是有些影響力……"],["李部長遠：它是一個財團法人。"],["柯委員志恩：好，財團法人。我們今天當然還是把帳算在你們文化部的頭上，你看，11月4日突然通過3,000萬投資一個新創的AI跟活動執行，我在11月10日就揭發這件事情，部長看完之後說你一定要嚴審，但是我想請問部長，11月15日公視開董事會，這件事情你知道嗎？"],["李部長遠：我剛剛有講過……"],["柯委員志恩：你都不知道？"],["李部長遠：我不知道，我完全不會去……"],["柯委員志恩：那你事後知道嗎？"],["李部長遠：我完全不會插手他們的董事會。"],["柯委員志恩：那你告訴我，你要怎麼嚴審？我講完之後，你不是告訴我說你要嚴審嗎？"],["李部長遠：有關投資這個部分，譬如說資產活化或者投資新公司，他們報備給文化部的時候，文化部有責任要去看看為什麼……"],["柯委員志恩：好，他們所做的決定，你們文化部要不要背書？你要嚴審啊！你要背書吧？"],["李部長遠：如果經過我們審查後，當然就背書啊！"],["柯委員志恩：那我看你有沒有審查。我們來看看嘛！我覺得很奇怪，公廣集團什麼時候變成一個秘密組織了？11月4日才說要開所謂「創新創業」的會議，而且當天所有的資料都列為機密，開完全部回收，11月10日我有揭露，11月15日又開董事會，不僅很快速地通過投資管理辦法，有董監事認為這項辦法需要花多一點時間來瞭解，但是不被接受，最後還是在沒有投票表決的狀況之下立刻通過，而且被要求簽下保密協議，董監事也不敢對外發言。有沒有這種事？什麼時候搞得這麼黑箱了？"],["李部長遠：是不是可以請董事長……"],["柯委員志恩：等一下，我先把它講完。你們號稱是全國民眾的公共電視，對於這樣的議案卻是強行通過耶！我先請問一下部長，對於公視投資管理辦法這樣整個作法，你覺得合宜、合法、合理嗎？你先說說你的看法。"],["李部長遠：其實長期因為華視的虧損……"],["柯委員志恩：沒有，你先看看嘛！我現在只問這件事情，3,000萬的投資嘛！"],["李部長遠：你說這件事啊？"],["柯委員志恩：當然啊！以這種方法來通過這樣的投資管理辦法，把三分之二的門檻拿掉，你覺得這樣合情、合理、合法嗎？"],["李部長遠：三分之二的門檻拿掉？"],["柯委員志恩：是，顯然你真的不太管公視，看得出來。"],["李部長遠：我管不了公視啊！"],["柯委員志恩：但是你不能不管到公視啊！你當初在華視的時候也是因為受不了公視而離開！我只是問你，剛剛我所報告的這件事情、這麼秘密的狀況，你覺得合情、合理、合法嗎？我請問你的觀點嘛！"],["李部長遠：我的觀點啊？我現在不太敢講觀點耶，我會被人家扭曲。"],["柯委員志恩：不會啊！我們這裡都有錄影啊！對於剛剛我講的過程，你覺得可以嗎？"],["李部長遠：這不是事實啊！你要不要聽聽我們董事長的回答？因為我們時常看到片面的說法，那不是事實。"],["柯委員志恩：我們還是往下看。你看，這總要有一個議程嘛！11月14日，華視董事會通過幾個重要的議程，目前預編了明年2.3億的虧損，這是預編的，所以好像還沒有開始就預編明年會虧損2.3億，而且向銀行增借了3億的額度，所以目前為止，整個華視的借款額度將達到44億，然後明年再借1億的現金流量。我們先往後看，把這整個過程看完。然後你又提出華視的變革，要來處理土地、辦理優退還有新創公司，所以從11月4日、11月14日到11月15日，快速通過、要求保密、回收資料、列為機密、三分之二條款全部鬆綁。再往下看，然後呢？為什麼我們大家對華視這麼樣子的、覺得它是一個非常重要的議案？因為土地開發。我沒有說任何事情，我只說它是何其敏感。要活化、要創新，沒有問題，但我們還是要問。","再往下看一下，因為時間非常有限。公視創立以來非常重要的把關機制是，要做任何投資必須占投資單位三分之二股份，但是這個限制在11月15日被解除。所以說呢？你對於這樣所謂的3,000萬要投資AI的這個層面……為什麼要有這樣的條款？就是未來萬一倒閉、虧損，到底是誰要來負責？所以我說，你要設立、你要轉型、你要做任何的事情，我只問部長，你認不認為需要有一個究責條款？否則這是我們人民的錢啊！這是我們人民的錢啊！而且你放手一搏！我只問，以公共服務價值為設立宗旨的公視到底在哪裡？你剛剛講了一堆，你剛剛回答洪孟楷的問題回答到一半，我們也問啊！成立一個新的公司，公廣集團目前有1,200個員工，找不到任何人可以來執行創新創業活動，而需要成立額外的公司來做這樣的事情嗎？這樣合理嗎？而且告訴我們3年之內可以損益平衡，你相信嗎？AI大家都想用，經濟部、國科會比公視更專業，而且他們的經費動輒上億，公視有需要做這個來湊熱鬧嗎？","我還是要問，事實擺在這個地方，112年虧損2.4億，113年虧損2.3億，114年預計要虧2.3億，這樣加起來，整個虧損就高達7億，而且我還要強調，所有的無線電視台，臺視、中視、民視都是有盈餘的，財報清清楚楚，華視位於蛋黃區中的蛋黃區，而且還有其他3台所沒有的租賃收入，如果沒有這些租金的話，這3年華視的虧損將超過16億，這是事實嘛！所以在營運部分，你們要以3,000萬來成立一個新的公司，可以說服我們嗎？本業沒有辦法做好，你覺得這可以說服我們嗎？好吧！請胡董事長一併說明。簡短說明，我們等一下還有其他的問題。"],["胡董事長元輝：謝謝委員，我很快地說明。第一個，我們納入公廣集團以來，平均虧損是2.5億，這幾年明列的虧損都在平均虧損值以下，但是我們的營運成本不斷增加，以去年來講，我們去年比前年的利息支出增加兩千六百多萬……"],["柯委員志恩：董事長，你講這個東西……"],["胡董事長元輝：我只是想做一個……"],["柯委員志恩：我希望你給我一個完整的項目……"],["胡董事長元輝：沒問題！"],["柯委員志恩：你沒有辦法像其他的無線電視台有盈餘，起碼可以減少虧損……"],["胡董事長元輝：我們已經在……"],["柯委員志恩：你要減少虧損……"],["胡董事長元輝：所以我們負責任地做這件事。"],["柯委員志恩：可是你現在告訴我們，你們有1,200個、這麼多的員工，還要再額外成立一個新的公司，你覺得要如何說服我們？我覺得這才是最大的點。而且這整個過程當中，就像我剛剛所提到的，有需要這麼秘密、有需要這麼黑箱、有需要這麼保密、不准外洩嗎？"],["胡董事長元輝：我們所有的董事都開過專案會議，而且各項的會議，包括我們施振榮董事長都當仁不讓……"],["柯委員志恩：給我看一下你們所有的會議紀錄，你們給我們看一下所有的會議紀錄。"],["胡董事長元輝：這件事情當仁不讓，我們一定要積極推動，是所有董事一致同意……"],["柯委員志恩：對不起，你要積極推動的話，你也要說服我們立法院要不要給你這筆3,000萬，因為到目前為止，我還看不出一個端倪，因為剛剛我所提出的問題，你們還沒有辦法給我解決。","最後我利用最短的時間來問一下文化部，小野部長，你知道我們TaiwanPlus在第幾個頻道嗎？"],["李部長遠：我不知道。"],["柯委員志恩：你怎麼會不知道？你是文化部。"],["李部長遠：我剛才講過公共電視獨立營運，我不會去看它那個……"],["柯委員志恩：天啊！我覺得目前為止，我們公共電視真的是……","主席，我們要排一個專案來報告，文化部長完全不曉得公共電視，只是因為它非常獨立，所以你也不知道它的頻道在哪裡？"],["李部長遠：它每個地方的頻道都不同。"],["柯委員志恩：對啊！大概都在什麼頻道？"],["李部長遠：應該兩百多吧！"],["柯委員志恩：一百多、兩百多，頂多一個臺中，臺中的給你一個八十幾頻道，這個部分是所有委員都會看到的，我還是特別強調，你看！公視基金的收入短絀，從110年到現在，不斷的短絀，是這麼樣的多。還有最重要的是，我還是回應一下，真的！你們所給我們的資訊當中，告訴我們臺灣這個東西跟臺灣的主流媒體，我們的TaiwanPlus跟主流的國際媒體CNN、BBC、彭博、半島電視臺等並列。我光看到這個陳述，部長，你是媒體人，你相信嗎？你覺得我們可以跟BBC這樣的東西並列嗎？你相信嗎？你覺得可能嗎？跟這些媒體並列？這是你們講的，你覺得這樣的措辭會不會有點太誇大？"],["李部長遠：我們現在是跟這幾個全世界最著名的電視臺放在同一個OTT平臺，我們的收視率是第三名。"],["柯委員志恩：收視率第三名？部長，你要不要去看看真實的收視率一下，好不好？你不要每次都看到這個資訊，你光是看到這個部分，你看它每一次，不管在YouTube或在任何地方的按讚數等各方面，你真的還是要看看事實，雖然你都比較看文字的，但是在媒體的部分……而且這裡面你告訴我用英文，但是你看這個比例出來，很清楚！亞洲的比例最高，收看的比例最高，它的整個收看率其實沒有你想像中那麼多，你真的應該看看事實，而且亞洲，特別是印度，好不好？臺灣群眾看得最多。你看你砸了一億多，觀看次數的比例還是以亞洲為主，我們都以英文發音來看的話，其實美洲只占17.7%，更不要說是歐洲，歐洲還有很多法語語系，他們根本不太看，我只是呈現一個事實給你看。而且審計部還告訴你，這是審計部講的，不是柯志恩所講的啊！審計部告訴你完全集中在亞洲，還有很多部分績效未達標，而且你們當初所設定的，不管是結案核銷、辦理時間等等之類，他們都認為有非常大的問題。最後，你看花了七點多億，宣傳費花了一億多，然後你看新聞節目製作買賣、一般節目製作等等，這全部都呈現出來。你當過媒體，你當過製作人，你覺得這樣的東西CP值到底高不高嘛？部長可以看得出來到底高不高嘛！最後，你看你們委託第三公司來辦理的這樣子一個滿意度，連臺籍的人士，滿意度都不到80%，你們設定80%，但是你看，在臺的外籍人士是我們最大的target，他對於節目的滿意度都還不到你們所設定很低的80%，這些都是我們對於TaiwanPlus非常大的質疑，58億，但是你們現在只花了二十幾億，表示還有很多的績效是完全沒有辦法呈現出來的，這個部分勢必在我們所有的預算審查當中，一定會嚴格審查的部分。然後我還要請公視對於3,000萬要投資的這一塊，請你給本席一份非常詳細的資料，還包括你們從10日到14日、15日所有的會議紀錄，請你一併交給本席來看一下，可以嗎？文化部長可以嗎？"],["李部長遠：可以。"],["柯委員志恩：好，謝謝。"],["李部長遠：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝柯志恩委員，部長跟董事長請回。"],["主席（林委員倩綺代）：我們接下來請萬美玲委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":428,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-9","speakers":["萬美玲","林倩綺","洪孟楷","柯志恩","葉元之","陳秀寳","葛如鈞","陳培瑜","林宜瑾","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","吳春城","范雲","張雅琳","黃國昌","羅智強","羅廷瑋","翁曉玲","吳思瑤","賴惠員","王美惠"],"page_start":359,"meetingDate":["2024-11-21"],"gazette_id":"11310401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310401_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部及所屬單位預算案；二、審查114年度中央政府總\n預算案有關文化部主管國立文化機構作業基金附屬單位預算案；三、審查114年度中央政府總預\n算案有關文化部主管文化發展基金附屬單位預算案；四、審查114年度行政法人國家表演藝術中\n心、文化內容策進院、國家電影及視聽文化中心預算案（僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11310401_00006"}}}