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354.378, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"萬\"}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"千\", \"start\": 354.378, \"end\": 355.838, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"萬\"}, {\"word\": \"難\"}, {\"word\": \"怪\", \"start\": 355.838, \"end\": 356.398, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"才\", \"start\": 356.398, \"end\": 356.859, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"榮\"}, {\"word\": \"介\", \"start\": 356.859, \"end\": 357.119, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 357.119, \"end\": 357.339, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 357.339, \"end\": 359.119, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"氣\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 359.119, \"end\": 359.56, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 359.56, \"end\": 360.26, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 360.26, \"end\": 360.36, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"如\", 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{\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 366.342, \"end\": 366.522, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 366.522, \"end\": 366.642, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 366.642, \"end\": 366.762, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 366.762, \"end\": 366.902, \"score\": 0.84}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"王\", \"start\": 366.902, \"end\": 367.162, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"世\", \"start\": 367.162, \"end\": 367.502, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"堅\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 367.502, \"end\": 368.943, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"速\", \"start\": 368.943, \"end\": 369.963, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"布\", \"start\": 369.963, \"end\": 371.824, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 371.824, \"end\": 372.024, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 372.024, \"end\": 372.344, \"score\": 0.814}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"A\", 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\"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 376.926, \"end\": 377.766, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 377.766, \"end\": 377.926, \"score\": 0.757}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 377.926, \"end\": 378.106, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 378.106, \"end\": 378.346, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"效\", \"start\": 378.346, \"end\": 378.686, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 378.686, \"end\": 379.067, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 379.067, \"end\": 379.287, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 379.287, \"end\": 379.507, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"差\", \"start\": 379.507, \"end\": 379.527, \"score\": 0.338}]}, {\"start\": 382.241, \"end\": 401.598, \"text\": \"我們今年建制的費用是不到一千萬那王委員所稱的六千萬是明年的 明年的費用那這些費用並不是只有建制費用因為還有包含一些可能未來還有一些客服可能要委外所以基本上明年六千萬明年變到五千多萬今年一千多萬所以是王委員質詢錯誤啊\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 382.241, \"end\": 382.501, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 382.501, \"end\": 382.641, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 382.641, \"end\": 382.801, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 382.801, \"end\": 382.982, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 382.982, \"end\": 383.082, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 383.082, \"end\": 383.402, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 383.402, \"end\": 383.742, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 383.742, \"end\": 384.303, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 384.303, \"end\": 384.383, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 384.383, \"end\": 384.523, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 384.523, \"end\": 384.623, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"千\", \"start\": 384.623, \"end\": 385.023, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"萬\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 385.023, \"end\": 385.664, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"王\", \"start\": 385.664, \"end\": 385.844, 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\"千\", \"start\": 395.913, \"end\": 396.913, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"萬\"}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 396.913, \"end\": 397.014, \"score\": 0.818}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 397.014, \"end\": 397.514, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"變\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 397.514, \"end\": 397.714, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"五\", \"start\": 397.714, \"end\": 397.854, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"千\", \"start\": 397.854, \"end\": 398.034, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 398.034, \"end\": 398.915, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"萬\"}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 398.915, \"end\": 399.115, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 399.115, \"end\": 399.376, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 399.376, \"end\": 399.516, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"千\", \"start\": 399.516, \"end\": 399.756, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 399.756, \"end\": 400.737, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"萬\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 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414.789, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 414.789, \"end\": 415.069, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"才\", \"start\": 415.069, \"end\": 415.29, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 415.29, \"end\": 415.49, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 415.49, \"end\": 415.67, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 415.67, \"end\": 415.951, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 415.951, \"end\": 416.151, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 416.151, \"end\": 416.251, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"六\", \"start\": 416.251, \"end\": 416.452, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"千\", \"start\": 416.452, \"end\": 416.472, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"萬\"}]}, {\"start\": 418.002, \"end\": 441.364, \"text\": \"已經建置好了這個費用是延續性的是 所以你們是花了六千萬嘛是不是 你不要在這邊胡說八道喔到底是六千萬還是一千多萬委員我們重新說一遍就是說因為它今年是先建置然後明年的部分是建置再加上客服的部分因為我們還是要一些服務然後還是 比如說\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 418.002, \"end\": 418.203, \"score\": 0.887}, 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810.109, \"end\": 810.289, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 810.289, \"end\": 810.369, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 810.369, \"end\": 810.389, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,578 --> 00:00:10,611\n好謝謝召委我們請法務部我們鄭部長麻煩部長警政署我們張署長署長\n\n2\n00:00:15,228 --> 00:00:42,422\n是部長還有署長早我想我們國人對於詐騙案件感受很深所以今天招委排這個議題我想讓大家更深層的去探討詐欺案件為什麼我們打詐四法上路之後還是詐騙的金額還是維持在很高的一個金額然後案件量還是持續不斷的去上漲\n\n3\n00:00:43,922 --> 00:01:03,058\n那我想我們明年打算的預算增加大概4.8倍當然政府是希望能以打詐視同作戰的決心除惡勿近但是我們看到就是說似乎也仍然不足以有效嚇阻這些詐欺犯罪\n\n4\n00:01:04,008 --> 00:01:16,192\n那我第一個問題先請教署長署長剛才提到說今年7月我們打詐這個就詐欺的這個被害人的被詐欺金額是110億8月9月10月呢有統計嗎8月137億9月118億10月份120億\n\n5\n00:01:30,255 --> 00:01:56,520\n所以今年度所以七、八月份七、八月份是高峰那九到十月是有稍微有降那委員長提的就是說我們打詐四法是在七月份通過通過之後現在就在做這個相關部委執法的這個修訂所以我會覺得這個今年的年底以前先是一個空空期是\n\n6\n00:01:57,841 --> 00:02:15,635\n所以這個詐欺的這種狀況還是屬於高浩發的一個階段但是我看這案件是有漸漸的往下走因為你現在看有一些網路廣告平台你如果沒有實名制有很多人都沒有辦法配合\n\n7\n00:02:16,195 --> 00:02:22,701\n從11月開始還沒統計統計到10月份就已經高達了10月還有120億是個高峰期所以11月截至目前為止你沒有做過統計因為今天已經11月21號了\n\n8\n00:02:39,517 --> 00:02:56,305\n十一月會下降嗎?趨勢會下降嗎?我現在看因為我們每天都會公佈疫苗盤大概在1億到5億左右這張我剛才有講過就是說在7到8月份大概在4億多9到10月份大概3億9差不多2000多萬一天所以說這個數字看起來是\n\n9\n00:03:03,088 --> 00:03:26,655\n緩步的再往下走那種趨勢你10月還在還比那個9月還多啊你說我看到就沒有了但你10月份大概到80倍了那我希望你講的是那個能夠是真實反應真實面11月我們希望看到你11月統計數字確實有呈現下降的一個趨勢我相信這個每天的儀表版我每天都跟他公佈而且是真實的數據\n\n10\n00:03:29,996 --> 00:03:52,822\n現在打詐四法通過打詐的政策推行後我們現在目前看到的趨勢就是案件數及受害者的財損金額一直增加部長你認為為什麼一直增加這個趨勢的原因是什麼為什麼工具給了法案也都已經上路了\n\n11\n00:03:54,090 --> 00:04:14,524\n那是什麼原因?以前那個都是電信詐騙都是我們傳統我們都會接到那個電話那那個是亂槍打鳥式的嘛那現在的那個詐騙的形象因為詐騙也會進化所以他現在最主要的詐騙的類型他現在是比較轉向那個投資型的一個廣告那投資廣告的詐騙金額多\n\n12\n00:04:15,805 --> 00:04:30,831\n那些這個被害人的話他可能對象會資歷會比我們對象先打電話會資歷比較大所以不然你意思說現在就傳統的用打電話來行騙的這個類型已經慢慢減少了現在大宗的就是網路詐欺啦尤其是投資的部分\n\n13\n00:04:34,333 --> 00:04:53,681\n這個投資詐騙的這部分的確是比較因為他有做一些包裝所以這些投資大眾會誤信誤信所以他等到發掘到的時候可能那個錢已經出了好幾筆部長你這樣回答可以那署長你的類型觀察到類型是不是因為網路投資的類型沒有錯現在的詐欺第一名就是\n\n14\n00:04:54,421 --> 00:05:19,788\n這是投資型的網絡投資型的詐欺就是把你這個訊息投放給你就是高暴力高高高手的很快的時間就可以獲利把它點入他的點擊之後然後進入他的那個群組來的一直來養起來這樣好幫你套起來然後就在裡面詐騙話語了解其實是這種投資類型的是大宗大宗大概佔百分之六七十\n\n15\n00:05:20,989 --> 00:05:31,777\n就是你們有一個165的APP打詐的APP嘛對建置這個費用大概多少大概一千多萬一千多萬嘛對速發部勒速發部我們是副署長副署長請問啊那你們的建構的這個打詐APP總共花多少錢\n\n16\n00:05:53,317 --> 00:06:19,527\n6千萬6千萬難怪剛才謝榮介會那麼生氣你們把這個業務不如移轉給我們那個警政署你們花了6千萬我有看到那個王世堅委員講說速發布建制這個APP花了6千萬比警政署多了6倍結果你們的成效非常的差\n\n17\n00:06:22,241 --> 00:06:41,598\n我們今年建制的費用是不到一千萬那王委員所稱的六千萬是明年的明年的費用那這些費用並不是只有建制費用因為還有包含一些可能未來還有一些客服可能要委外所以基本上明年六千萬明年變到五千多萬今年一千多萬所以是王委員質詢錯誤啊\n\n18\n00:06:44,810 --> 00:06:56,472\n因為你們署長還講說你們部長還回答說因為這個還在測試階段啊所以成效不彰啊所以你今天跟我講那是明年才是建制費用是六千萬\n\n19\n00:06:58,002 --> 00:07:21,364\n已經建置好了這個費用是延續性的是所以你們是花了六千萬嘛是不是你不要在這邊胡說八道喔到底是六千萬還是一千多萬委員我們重新說一遍就是說因為它今年是先建置然後明年的部分是建置再加上客服的部分因為我們還是要一些服務然後還是比如說\n\n20\n00:07:22,805 --> 00:07:39,906\n接聽接聽電話跟確認內容然後還有要去這個其實是蠻花人力的然後另外的話可能有比如說各個就是團體跟使用者有很多的需求需要把它修改我告訴你們\n\n21\n00:07:41,468 --> 00:08:08,948\n因為我們看警政署真的很辛苦花了一千多萬建立這個一六的APP反詐APP但是你們明年你說六千多萬嘛要花那麼多的錢但是我們要看到的人民要看到是你們能夠這個把錢花在刀口上你要有積極的成效讓我們看到但是現在抒發部一直為人詬病的對整個打詐的一個功效啊做得非常的差\n\n22\n00:08:10,598 --> 00:08:29,358\n剛才署長他們就是針對我們網路詐欺投資犯罪類型會這個有這麼重大的一個案件書一直在攀升被騙金額也那麼高請問訴法部對於這種網路詐欺的投資犯罪有什麼樣的一個政策工具能夠去遏止\n\n23\n00:08:30,910 --> 00:08:47,262\n委員好謝謝給我們說明就是我們針對打詐四法的部分裡面像比如說詐欺犯罪防治條例以及那個洗房法的部分有授予我們就是要提出四個六個執法\n\n24\n00:08:49,023 --> 00:09:15,690\n那我們六個執法目前也都已經訂定然後我們會依據時間在就是11月30號之前就是會去做一個公佈那之前針對就是網路廣告平台業者還有第三方支付跟電商業以及網路連線遊戲的部分其實我們都非常積極的去做一些行政指導跟行政檢查的部分那這個部分就是\n\n25\n00:09:17,151 --> 00:09:31,723\n陳如我們之前部長有提到的我們非常的期待就是說也有預期我們在明年有關詐欺的部分會因為我們積極的處理然後他會下降我想你剛才給你很多時間去這個去做一個說明\n\n26\n00:09:34,585 --> 00:09:44,228\n根據軍管會的統計顯示,截至今年10月底,僅Google與Meta的投資詐騙廣告量就高達63,191件顯示非實名制的廣告已成為詐騙的重要來源,許多詐騙集團利用境外作為規避執法\n\n27\n00:09:56,371 --> 00:10:16,538\n的一個的一個方式所以請問我們速發部或者是我們法務部金管會金管會上來金管會就是說我們有沒有跨部會的一個聯繫還有我們跟國際的平台這些不管是google還有facebook我們如何建立更緊密的合作關係\n\n28\n00:10:19,541 --> 00:10:39,836\n請司法部先回答這個部分一直是我們部長非常非常積極要求我們要跟他們去做一個比較好的一個聯防跟協作的部分那他們也非常的配合然後也有提到說在今年年底之前他們都會把這個實名制的部分做好FB還有Google\n\n29\n00:10:42,978 --> 00:10:50,983\nGOOGLE、LINE、TITO都一樣只有訴發部還有法務部有沒有共同參與?\n\n30\n00:10:52,593 --> 00:11:16,455\n這個法務部本來在太高監署我們就有一些的跟各部會的做一個聯繫平台所以我們會把檢察官的那些辦案的這些的發現我們可以再加強部我們會回饋給各部會所以各部會就是因為我們這樣大家共襄盛舉大家群聚所以過了很多那個制度大家為有關心的就是其實法務部也跟那個網路社群軟體包括\n\n31\n00:11:17,055 --> 00:11:39,117\nLINE、META、GOOGLE這些有建立的資料調取的一個協議那這部分我想我們這邊都在進行那另外那個涉及詐騙廣告這部分有建立這個剛才有講通報下架機制或透過那個一些的停止的一個網頁的一個解析那這部分就做以上的補充那另外金管會呢\n\n32\n00:11:40,098 --> 00:12:00,174\n監管會我想問你就是說對於這個社群平台採實名制的積極性你們如何的去做一個法規的調整跟委員報告那目前的話剛剛委員其實已經有提到說我們現在的投資詐騙其實已經有發生6萬多件那跟委員報告這個6萬多件的話都是我們在\n\n33\n00:12:01,294 --> 00:12:24,015\n在網路平台上我們主動去收報出來的那發覺說他違反了我們目前我們目前先用的是投進投庫法他用冒名的方式或是匿名的方式去做的這一部分我們在第一時間然後就請親自警察局這邊幫我們去幫他下架那目前的話我們執行的策略就是我們在搶速度我們速度越快能夠讓他下架的話那這\n\n34\n00:12:24,837 --> 00:12:31,818\n被害人就不容易被看到是那個教練我再問你就是目前詐欺犯罪委員會條例授權的執法\n\n35\n00:12:33,203 --> 00:12:56,852\n他的進度如何?我們執法的部分的話我們現在未來會在11月30日之後就會發布那我剛才關心的就是說目前我們金管會要如何確保社群平台啊因為現在我們看到有幾家銀行嘛他們對於這種沒有採私名制的這些網路平台就是不再跟他投廣告嘛\n\n36\n00:12:57,532 --> 00:13:08,209\n那對於這種社群平台採實名制的積極性而非僅停留在現在是由金融業它治癒的層面你們未來要如何的去做規劃\n\n37\n00:13:09,178 --> 00:13:30,389\n跟委員報告那目前金融業這邊他是採取的是一個自動自發的方式他針對這些沒有實名制的他會請他會把他廣告撤下那未來這一個那個打詐四法生效之後的話那在有關的這個速發部這邊只要是指定的這些平台業者他都必須採用實名制如果沒有採用實名制的話後續都會有相關的罰則好謝謝好謝謝那我們現在\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3578\t10611\t好 謝謝召委我們請法務部我們鄭部長麻煩部長警政署我們張署長署長\n15228\t42422\t是部長還有署長早我想我們國人對於詐騙案件感受很深所以今天招委排這個議題我想讓大家更深層的去探討詐欺案件為什麼我們打詐四法上路之後還是詐騙的金額還是維持在很高的一個金額然後案件量還是持續不斷的去上漲\n43922\t63058\t那我想我們明年打算的預算增加大概4.8倍當然政府是希望能以打詐視同作戰的決心除惡勿近但是我們看到就是說似乎也仍然不足以有效嚇阻這些詐欺犯罪\n64008\t76192\t那我第一個問題先請教署長署長剛才提到說今年7月我們打詐這個就詐欺的這個被害人的被詐欺金額是110億8月9月10月呢有統計嗎8月137億9月118億10月份120億\n90255\t116520\t所以今年度所以七、八月份七、八月份是高峰那九到十月是有稍微有降那委員長提的就是說我們打詐四法是在七月份通過通過之後現在就在做這個相關部委執法的這個修訂所以我會覺得這個今年的年底以前先是一個空空期是\n117841\t135635\t所以這個詐欺的這種狀況還是屬於高浩發的一個階段但是我看這案件是有漸漸的往下走因為你現在看有一些網路廣告平台你如果沒有實名制有很多人都沒有辦法配合\n136195\t142701\t從11月開始還沒統計統計到10月份就已經高達了10月還有120億是個高峰期所以11月截至目前為止你沒有做過統計因為今天已經11月21號了\n159517\t176305\t十一月會下降嗎?趨勢會下降嗎?我現在看因為我們每天都會公佈疫苗盤大概在1億到5億左右這張我剛才有講過就是說在7到8月份大概在4億多9到10月份大概3億9差不多2000多萬一天所以說這個數字看起來是\n183088\t206655\t緩步的再往下走那種趨勢你10月還在還比那個9月還多啊你說我看到就沒有了但你10月份大概到80倍了那我希望你講的是那個能夠是真實反應真實面11月我們希望看到你11月統計數字確實有呈現下降的一個趨勢我相信這個每天的儀表版我每天都跟他公佈而且是真實的數據\n209996\t232822\t現在打詐四法通過打詐的政策推行後我們現在目前看到的趨勢就是案件數及受害者的財損金額一直增加部長你認為為什麼一直增加這個趨勢的原因是什麼為什麼工具給了法案也都已經上路了\n234090\t254524\t那是什麼原因?以前那個都是電信詐騙都是我們傳統我們都會接到那個電話那那個是亂槍打鳥式的嘛那現在的那個詐騙的形象因為詐騙也會進化所以他現在最主要的詐騙的類型他現在是比較轉向那個投資型的一個廣告那投資廣告的詐騙金額多\n255805\t270831\t那些這個被害人的話他可能對象會資歷會比我們對象先打電話會資歷比較大所以不然你意思說現在就傳統的用打電話來行騙的這個類型已經慢慢減少了現在大宗的就是網路詐欺啦尤其是投資的部分\n274333\t293681\t這個投資詐騙的這部分的確是比較因為他有做一些包裝所以這些投資大眾會誤信誤信所以他等到發掘到的時候可能那個錢已經出了好幾筆部長你這樣回答可以那署長你的類型觀察到類型是不是因為網路投資的類型沒有錯現在的詐欺第一名就是\n294421\t319788\t這是投資型的網絡投資型的詐欺就是把你這個訊息投放給你就是高暴力高高高手的很快的時間就可以獲利把它點入他的點擊之後然後進入他的那個群組來的一直來養起來這樣好幫你套起來然後就在裡面詐騙話語了解其實是這種投資類型的是大宗大宗大概佔百分之六七十\n320989\t331777\t就是你們有一個165的APP打詐的APP嘛對建置這個費用大概多少大概一千多萬一千多萬嘛對速發部勒 速發部我們是副署長副署長請問啊那你們的建構的這個打詐APP總共花多少錢\n353317\t379527\t6千萬6千萬難怪剛才謝榮介會那麼生氣你們把這個業務不如移轉給我們那個警政署你們花了6千萬我有看到那個王世堅委員講說速發布建制這個APP花了6千萬比警政署多了6倍結果你們的成效非常的差\n382241\t401598\t我們今年建制的費用是不到一千萬那王委員所稱的六千萬是明年的 明年的費用那這些費用並不是只有建制費用因為還有包含一些可能未來還有一些客服可能要委外所以基本上明年六千萬明年變到五千多萬今年一千多萬所以是王委員質詢錯誤啊\n404810\t416472\t因為你們署長還講說你們部長還回答說因為這個還在測試階段啊所以成效不彰啊所以你今天跟我講那是明年才是建制費用是六千萬\n418002\t441364\t已經建置好了這個費用是延續性的是 所以你們是花了六千萬嘛是不是 你不要在這邊胡說八道喔到底是六千萬還是一千多萬委員我們重新說一遍就是說因為它今年是先建置然後明年的部分是建置再加上客服的部分因為我們還是要一些服務然後還是 比如說\n442805\t459906\t接聽接聽電話跟確認內容然後還有要去這個其實是蠻花人力的然後另外的話可能有比如說各個就是團體跟使用者有很多的需求需要把它修改我告訴你們\n461468\t488948\t因為我們看警政署真的很辛苦花了一千多萬建立這個一六的APP反詐APP但是你們明年你說六千多萬嘛要花那麼多的錢但是我們要看到的人民要看到是你們能夠這個把錢花在刀口上你要有積極的成效讓我們看到但是現在抒發部一直為人詬病的對整個打詐的一個功效啊做得非常的差\n490598\t509358\t剛才署長他們就是針對我們網路詐欺投資犯罪類型會這個有這麼重大的一個案件書一直在攀升被騙金額也那麼高請問訴法部對於這種網路詐欺的投資犯罪有什麼樣的一個政策工具能夠去遏止\n510910\t527262\t委員好謝謝給我們說明就是我們針對打詐四法的部分裡面像比如說詐欺犯罪防治條例以及那個洗房法的部分有授予我們就是要提出四個六個執法\n529023\t555690\t那我們六個執法目前也都已經訂定然後我們會依據時間在就是11月30號之前就是會去做一個公佈那之前針對就是網路廣告平台業者還有第三方支付跟電商業以及網路連線遊戲的部分其實我們都非常積極的去做一些行政指導跟行政檢查的部分那這個部分就是\n557151\t571723\t陳如我們之前部長有提到的我們非常的期待就是說也有預期我們在明年有關詐欺的部分會因為我們積極的處理然後他會下降我想你剛才給你很多時間去這個去做一個說明\n574585\t584228\t根據軍管會的統計顯示,截至今年10月底,僅Google與Meta的投資詐騙廣告量就高達63,191件顯示非實名制的廣告已成為詐騙的重要來源,許多詐騙集團利用境外作為規避執法\n596371\t616538\t的一個的一個方式所以請問我們速發部或者是我們法務部金管會金管會上來金管會就是說我們有沒有跨部會的一個聯繫還有我們跟國際的平台這些不管是google還有facebook我們如何建立更緊密的合作關係\n619541\t639836\t請司法部先回答這個部分一直是我們部長非常非常積極要求我們要跟他們去做一個比較好的一個聯防跟協作的部分那他們也非常的配合然後也有提到說在今年年底之前他們都會把這個實名制的部分做好FB還有Google\n642978\t650983\tGOOGLE、LINE、TITO都一樣只有訴發部還有法務部有沒有共同參與?\n652593\t676455\t這個法務部本來在太高監署我們就有一些的跟各部會的做一個聯繫平台所以我們會把檢察官的那些辦案的這些的發現我們可以再加強部我們會回饋給各部會所以各部會就是因為我們這樣大家共襄盛舉大家群聚所以過了很多那個制度大家為有關心的就是其實法務部也跟那個網路社群軟體包括\n677055\t699117\tLINE、META、GOOGLE這些有建立的資料調取的一個協議那這部分我想我們這邊都在進行那另外那個涉及詐騙廣告這部分有建立這個剛才有講通報下架機制或透過那個一些的停止的一個網頁的一個解析那這部分就做以上的補充那另外金管會呢\n700098\t720174\t監管會我想問你就是說對於這個社群平台採實名制的積極性你們如何的去做一個法規的調整跟委員報告那目前的話剛剛委員其實已經有提到說我們現在的投資詐騙其實已經有發生6萬多件那跟委員報告這個6萬多件的話都是我們在\n721294\t744015\t在網路平台上我們主動去收報出來的那發覺說他違反了我們目前我們目前先用的是投進投庫法他用冒名的方式或是匿名的方式去做的這一部分我們在第一時間然後就請親自警察局這邊幫我們去幫他下架那目前的話我們執行的策略就是我們在搶速度我們速度越快能夠讓他下架的話那這\n744837\t751818\t被害人就不容易被看到是 那個 教練我再問你就是目前詐欺犯罪委員會條例授權的執法\n753203\t776852\t他的進度如何?我們執法的部分的話我們現在未來會在11月30日之後就會發布那我剛才關心的就是說目前我們金管會要如何確保社群平台啊因為現在我們看到有幾家銀行嘛他們對於這種沒有採私名制的這些網路平台就是不再跟他投廣告嘛\n777532\t788209\t那對於這種社群平台採實名制的積極性而非僅停留在現在是由金融業它治癒的層面你們未來要如何的去做規劃\n789178\t810389\t跟委員報告那目前金融業這邊他是採取的是一個自動自發的方式他針對這些沒有實名制的他會請他會把他廣告撤下那未來這一個那個打詐四法生效之後的話那在有關的這個速發部這邊只要是指定的這些平台業者他都必須採用實名制如果沒有採用實名制的話後續都會有相關的罰則好謝謝好謝謝那我們現在\n","txt":"好 謝謝召委我們請法務部我們鄭部長麻煩部長警政署我們張署長署長\n是部長還有署長早我想我們國人對於詐騙案件感受很深所以今天招委排這個議題我想讓大家更深層的去探討詐欺案件為什麼我們打詐四法上路之後還是詐騙的金額還是維持在很高的一個金額然後案件量還是持續不斷的去上漲\n那我想我們明年打算的預算增加大概4.8倍當然政府是希望能以打詐視同作戰的決心除惡勿近但是我們看到就是說似乎也仍然不足以有效嚇阻這些詐欺犯罪\n那我第一個問題先請教署長署長剛才提到說今年7月我們打詐這個就詐欺的這個被害人的被詐欺金額是110億8月9月10月呢有統計嗎8月137億9月118億10月份120億\n所以今年度所以七、八月份七、八月份是高峰那九到十月是有稍微有降那委員長提的就是說我們打詐四法是在七月份通過通過之後現在就在做這個相關部委執法的這個修訂所以我會覺得這個今年的年底以前先是一個空空期是\n所以這個詐欺的這種狀況還是屬於高浩發的一個階段但是我看這案件是有漸漸的往下走因為你現在看有一些網路廣告平台你如果沒有實名制有很多人都沒有辦法配合\n從11月開始還沒統計統計到10月份就已經高達了10月還有120億是個高峰期所以11月截至目前為止你沒有做過統計因為今天已經11月21號了\n十一月會下降嗎?趨勢會下降嗎?我現在看因為我們每天都會公佈疫苗盤大概在1億到5億左右這張我剛才有講過就是說在7到8月份大概在4億多9到10月份大概3億9差不多2000多萬一天所以說這個數字看起來是\n緩步的再往下走那種趨勢你10月還在還比那個9月還多啊你說我看到就沒有了但你10月份大概到80倍了那我希望你講的是那個能夠是真實反應真實面11月我們希望看到你11月統計數字確實有呈現下降的一個趨勢我相信這個每天的儀表版我每天都跟他公佈而且是真實的數據\n現在打詐四法通過打詐的政策推行後我們現在目前看到的趨勢就是案件數及受害者的財損金額一直增加部長你認為為什麼一直增加這個趨勢的原因是什麼為什麼工具給了法案也都已經上路了\n那是什麼原因?以前那個都是電信詐騙都是我們傳統我們都會接到那個電話那那個是亂槍打鳥式的嘛那現在的那個詐騙的形象因為詐騙也會進化所以他現在最主要的詐騙的類型他現在是比較轉向那個投資型的一個廣告那投資廣告的詐騙金額多\n那些這個被害人的話他可能對象會資歷會比我們對象先打電話會資歷比較大所以不然你意思說現在就傳統的用打電話來行騙的這個類型已經慢慢減少了現在大宗的就是網路詐欺啦尤其是投資的部分\n這個投資詐騙的這部分的確是比較因為他有做一些包裝所以這些投資大眾會誤信誤信所以他等到發掘到的時候可能那個錢已經出了好幾筆部長你這樣回答可以那署長你的類型觀察到類型是不是因為網路投資的類型沒有錯現在的詐欺第一名就是\n這是投資型的網絡投資型的詐欺就是把你這個訊息投放給你就是高暴力高高高手的很快的時間就可以獲利把它點入他的點擊之後然後進入他的那個群組來的一直來養起來這樣好幫你套起來然後就在裡面詐騙話語了解其實是這種投資類型的是大宗大宗大概佔百分之六七十\n就是你們有一個165的APP打詐的APP嘛對建置這個費用大概多少大概一千多萬一千多萬嘛對速發部勒 速發部我們是副署長副署長請問啊那你們的建構的這個打詐APP總共花多少錢\n6千萬6千萬難怪剛才謝榮介會那麼生氣你們把這個業務不如移轉給我們那個警政署你們花了6千萬我有看到那個王世堅委員講說速發布建制這個APP花了6千萬比警政署多了6倍結果你們的成效非常的差\n我們今年建制的費用是不到一千萬那王委員所稱的六千萬是明年的 明年的費用那這些費用並不是只有建制費用因為還有包含一些可能未來還有一些客服可能要委外所以基本上明年六千萬明年變到五千多萬今年一千多萬所以是王委員質詢錯誤啊\n因為你們署長還講說你們部長還回答說因為這個還在測試階段啊所以成效不彰啊所以你今天跟我講那是明年才是建制費用是六千萬\n已經建置好了這個費用是延續性的是 所以你們是花了六千萬嘛是不是 你不要在這邊胡說八道喔到底是六千萬還是一千多萬委員我們重新說一遍就是說因為它今年是先建置然後明年的部分是建置再加上客服的部分因為我們還是要一些服務然後還是 比如說\n接聽接聽電話跟確認內容然後還有要去這個其實是蠻花人力的然後另外的話可能有比如說各個就是團體跟使用者有很多的需求需要把它修改我告訴你們\n因為我們看警政署真的很辛苦花了一千多萬建立這個一六的APP反詐APP但是你們明年你說六千多萬嘛要花那麼多的錢但是我們要看到的人民要看到是你們能夠這個把錢花在刀口上你要有積極的成效讓我們看到但是現在抒發部一直為人詬病的對整個打詐的一個功效啊做得非常的差\n剛才署長他們就是針對我們網路詐欺投資犯罪類型會這個有這麼重大的一個案件書一直在攀升被騙金額也那麼高請問訴法部對於這種網路詐欺的投資犯罪有什麼樣的一個政策工具能夠去遏止\n委員好謝謝給我們說明就是我們針對打詐四法的部分裡面像比如說詐欺犯罪防治條例以及那個洗房法的部分有授予我們就是要提出四個六個執法\n那我們六個執法目前也都已經訂定然後我們會依據時間在就是11月30號之前就是會去做一個公佈那之前針對就是網路廣告平台業者還有第三方支付跟電商業以及網路連線遊戲的部分其實我們都非常積極的去做一些行政指導跟行政檢查的部分那這個部分就是\n陳如我們之前部長有提到的我們非常的期待就是說也有預期我們在明年有關詐欺的部分會因為我們積極的處理然後他會下降我想你剛才給你很多時間去這個去做一個說明\n根據軍管會的統計顯示,截至今年10月底,僅Google與Meta的投資詐騙廣告量就高達63,191件顯示非實名制的廣告已成為詐騙的重要來源,許多詐騙集團利用境外作為規避執法\n的一個的一個方式所以請問我們速發部或者是我們法務部金管會金管會上來金管會就是說我們有沒有跨部會的一個聯繫還有我們跟國際的平台這些不管是google還有facebook我們如何建立更緊密的合作關係\n請司法部先回答這個部分一直是我們部長非常非常積極要求我們要跟他們去做一個比較好的一個聯防跟協作的部分那他們也非常的配合然後也有提到說在今年年底之前他們都會把這個實名制的部分做好FB還有Google\nGOOGLE、LINE、TITO都一樣只有訴發部還有法務部有沒有共同參與?\n這個法務部本來在太高監署我們就有一些的跟各部會的做一個聯繫平台所以我們會把檢察官的那些辦案的這些的發現我們可以再加強部我們會回饋給各部會所以各部會就是因為我們這樣大家共襄盛舉大家群聚所以過了很多那個制度大家為有關心的就是其實法務部也跟那個網路社群軟體包括\nLINE、META、GOOGLE這些有建立的資料調取的一個協議那這部分我想我們這邊都在進行那另外那個涉及詐騙廣告這部分有建立這個剛才有講通報下架機制或透過那個一些的停止的一個網頁的一個解析那這部分就做以上的補充那另外金管會呢\n監管會我想問你就是說對於這個社群平台採實名制的積極性你們如何的去做一個法規的調整跟委員報告那目前的話剛剛委員其實已經有提到說我們現在的投資詐騙其實已經有發生6萬多件那跟委員報告這個6萬多件的話都是我們在\n在網路平台上我們主動去收報出來的那發覺說他違反了我們目前我們目前先用的是投進投庫法他用冒名的方式或是匿名的方式去做的這一部分我們在第一時間然後就請親自警察局這邊幫我們去幫他下架那目前的話我們執行的策略就是我們在搶速度我們速度越快能夠讓他下架的話那這\n被害人就不容易被看到是 那個 教練我再問你就是目前詐欺犯罪委員會條例授權的執法\n他的進度如何?我們執法的部分的話我們現在未來會在11月30日之後就會發布那我剛才關心的就是說目前我們金管會要如何確保社群平台啊因為現在我們看到有幾家銀行嘛他們對於這種沒有採私名制的這些網路平台就是不再跟他投廣告嘛\n那對於這種社群平台採實名制的積極性而非僅停留在現在是由金融業它治癒的層面你們未來要如何的去做規劃\n跟委員報告那目前金融業這邊他是採取的是一個自動自發的方式他針對這些沒有實名制的他會請他會把他廣告撤下那未來這一個那個打詐四法生效之後的話那在有關的這個速發部這邊只要是指定的這些平台業者他都必須採用實名制如果沒有採用實名制的話後續都會有相關的罰則好謝謝好謝謝那我們現在\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.578 --> 00:10.611\n好謝謝召委我們請法務部我們鄭部長麻煩部長警政署我們張署長署長\n\n00:15.228 --> 00:42.422\n是部長還有署長早我想我們國人對於詐騙案件感受很深所以今天招委排這個議題我想讓大家更深層的去探討詐欺案件為什麼我們打詐四法上路之後還是詐騙的金額還是維持在很高的一個金額然後案件量還是持續不斷的去上漲\n\n00:43.922 --> 01:03.058\n那我想我們明年打算的預算增加大概4.8倍當然政府是希望能以打詐視同作戰的決心除惡勿近但是我們看到就是說似乎也仍然不足以有效嚇阻這些詐欺犯罪\n\n01:04.008 --> 01:16.192\n那我第一個問題先請教署長署長剛才提到說今年7月我們打詐這個就詐欺的這個被害人的被詐欺金額是110億8月9月10月呢有統計嗎8月137億9月118億10月份120億\n\n01:30.255 --> 01:56.520\n所以今年度所以七、八月份七、八月份是高峰那九到十月是有稍微有降那委員長提的就是說我們打詐四法是在七月份通過通過之後現在就在做這個相關部委執法的這個修訂所以我會覺得這個今年的年底以前先是一個空空期是\n\n01:57.841 --> 02:15.635\n所以這個詐欺的這種狀況還是屬於高浩發的一個階段但是我看這案件是有漸漸的往下走因為你現在看有一些網路廣告平台你如果沒有實名制有很多人都沒有辦法配合\n\n02:16.195 --> 02:22.701\n從11月開始還沒統計統計到10月份就已經高達了10月還有120億是個高峰期所以11月截至目前為止你沒有做過統計因為今天已經11月21號了\n\n02:39.517 --> 02:56.305\n十一月會下降嗎?趨勢會下降嗎?我現在看因為我們每天都會公佈疫苗盤大概在1億到5億左右這張我剛才有講過就是說在7到8月份大概在4億多9到10月份大概3億9差不多2000多萬一天所以說這個數字看起來是\n\n03:03.088 --> 03:26.655\n緩步的再往下走那種趨勢你10月還在還比那個9月還多啊你說我看到就沒有了但你10月份大概到80倍了那我希望你講的是那個能夠是真實反應真實面11月我們希望看到你11月統計數字確實有呈現下降的一個趨勢我相信這個每天的儀表版我每天都跟他公佈而且是真實的數據\n\n03:29.996 --> 03:52.822\n現在打詐四法通過打詐的政策推行後我們現在目前看到的趨勢就是案件數及受害者的財損金額一直增加部長你認為為什麼一直增加這個趨勢的原因是什麼為什麼工具給了法案也都已經上路了\n\n03:54.090 --> 04:14.524\n那是什麼原因?以前那個都是電信詐騙都是我們傳統我們都會接到那個電話那那個是亂槍打鳥式的嘛那現在的那個詐騙的形象因為詐騙也會進化所以他現在最主要的詐騙的類型他現在是比較轉向那個投資型的一個廣告那投資廣告的詐騙金額多\n\n04:15.805 --> 04:30.831\n那些這個被害人的話他可能對象會資歷會比我們對象先打電話會資歷比較大所以不然你意思說現在就傳統的用打電話來行騙的這個類型已經慢慢減少了現在大宗的就是網路詐欺啦尤其是投資的部分\n\n04:34.333 --> 04:53.681\n這個投資詐騙的這部分的確是比較因為他有做一些包裝所以這些投資大眾會誤信誤信所以他等到發掘到的時候可能那個錢已經出了好幾筆部長你這樣回答可以那署長你的類型觀察到類型是不是因為網路投資的類型沒有錯現在的詐欺第一名就是\n\n04:54.421 --> 05:19.788\n這是投資型的網絡投資型的詐欺就是把你這個訊息投放給你就是高暴力高高高手的很快的時間就可以獲利把它點入他的點擊之後然後進入他的那個群組來的一直來養起來這樣好幫你套起來然後就在裡面詐騙話語了解其實是這種投資類型的是大宗大宗大概佔百分之六七十\n\n05:20.989 --> 05:31.777\n就是你們有一個165的APP打詐的APP嘛對建置這個費用大概多少大概一千多萬一千多萬嘛對速發部勒速發部我們是副署長副署長請問啊那你們的建構的這個打詐APP總共花多少錢\n\n05:53.317 --> 06:19.527\n6千萬6千萬難怪剛才謝榮介會那麼生氣你們把這個業務不如移轉給我們那個警政署你們花了6千萬我有看到那個王世堅委員講說速發布建制這個APP花了6千萬比警政署多了6倍結果你們的成效非常的差\n\n06:22.241 --> 06:41.598\n我們今年建制的費用是不到一千萬那王委員所稱的六千萬是明年的明年的費用那這些費用並不是只有建制費用因為還有包含一些可能未來還有一些客服可能要委外所以基本上明年六千萬明年變到五千多萬今年一千多萬所以是王委員質詢錯誤啊\n\n06:44.810 --> 06:56.472\n因為你們署長還講說你們部長還回答說因為這個還在測試階段啊所以成效不彰啊所以你今天跟我講那是明年才是建制費用是六千萬\n\n06:58.002 --> 07:21.364\n已經建置好了這個費用是延續性的是所以你們是花了六千萬嘛是不是你不要在這邊胡說八道喔到底是六千萬還是一千多萬委員我們重新說一遍就是說因為它今年是先建置然後明年的部分是建置再加上客服的部分因為我們還是要一些服務然後還是比如說\n\n07:22.805 --> 07:39.906\n接聽接聽電話跟確認內容然後還有要去這個其實是蠻花人力的然後另外的話可能有比如說各個就是團體跟使用者有很多的需求需要把它修改我告訴你們\n\n07:41.468 --> 08:08.948\n因為我們看警政署真的很辛苦花了一千多萬建立這個一六的APP反詐APP但是你們明年你說六千多萬嘛要花那麼多的錢但是我們要看到的人民要看到是你們能夠這個把錢花在刀口上你要有積極的成效讓我們看到但是現在抒發部一直為人詬病的對整個打詐的一個功效啊做得非常的差\n\n08:10.598 --> 08:29.358\n剛才署長他們就是針對我們網路詐欺投資犯罪類型會這個有這麼重大的一個案件書一直在攀升被騙金額也那麼高請問訴法部對於這種網路詐欺的投資犯罪有什麼樣的一個政策工具能夠去遏止\n\n08:30.910 --> 08:47.262\n委員好謝謝給我們說明就是我們針對打詐四法的部分裡面像比如說詐欺犯罪防治條例以及那個洗房法的部分有授予我們就是要提出四個六個執法\n\n08:49.023 --> 09:15.690\n那我們六個執法目前也都已經訂定然後我們會依據時間在就是11月30號之前就是會去做一個公佈那之前針對就是網路廣告平台業者還有第三方支付跟電商業以及網路連線遊戲的部分其實我們都非常積極的去做一些行政指導跟行政檢查的部分那這個部分就是\n\n09:17.151 --> 09:31.723\n陳如我們之前部長有提到的我們非常的期待就是說也有預期我們在明年有關詐欺的部分會因為我們積極的處理然後他會下降我想你剛才給你很多時間去這個去做一個說明\n\n09:34.585 --> 09:44.228\n根據軍管會的統計顯示,截至今年10月底,僅Google與Meta的投資詐騙廣告量就高達63,191件顯示非實名制的廣告已成為詐騙的重要來源,許多詐騙集團利用境外作為規避執法\n\n09:56.371 --> 10:16.538\n的一個的一個方式所以請問我們速發部或者是我們法務部金管會金管會上來金管會就是說我們有沒有跨部會的一個聯繫還有我們跟國際的平台這些不管是google還有facebook我們如何建立更緊密的合作關係\n\n10:19.541 --> 10:39.836\n請司法部先回答這個部分一直是我們部長非常非常積極要求我們要跟他們去做一個比較好的一個聯防跟協作的部分那他們也非常的配合然後也有提到說在今年年底之前他們都會把這個實名制的部分做好FB還有Google\n\n10:42.978 --> 10:50.983\nGOOGLE、LINE、TITO都一樣只有訴發部還有法務部有沒有共同參與?\n\n10:52.593 --> 11:16.455\n這個法務部本來在太高監署我們就有一些的跟各部會的做一個聯繫平台所以我們會把檢察官的那些辦案的這些的發現我們可以再加強部我們會回饋給各部會所以各部會就是因為我們這樣大家共襄盛舉大家群聚所以過了很多那個制度大家為有關心的就是其實法務部也跟那個網路社群軟體包括\n\n11:17.055 --> 11:39.117\nLINE、META、GOOGLE這些有建立的資料調取的一個協議那這部分我想我們這邊都在進行那另外那個涉及詐騙廣告這部分有建立這個剛才有講通報下架機制或透過那個一些的停止的一個網頁的一個解析那這部分就做以上的補充那另外金管會呢\n\n11:40.098 --> 12:00.174\n監管會我想問你就是說對於這個社群平台採實名制的積極性你們如何的去做一個法規的調整跟委員報告那目前的話剛剛委員其實已經有提到說我們現在的投資詐騙其實已經有發生6萬多件那跟委員報告這個6萬多件的話都是我們在\n\n12:01.294 --> 12:24.015\n在網路平台上我們主動去收報出來的那發覺說他違反了我們目前我們目前先用的是投進投庫法他用冒名的方式或是匿名的方式去做的這一部分我們在第一時間然後就請親自警察局這邊幫我們去幫他下架那目前的話我們執行的策略就是我們在搶速度我們速度越快能夠讓他下架的話那這\n\n12:24.837 --> 12:31.818\n被害人就不容易被看到是那個教練我再問你就是目前詐欺犯罪委員會條例授權的執法\n\n12:33.203 --> 12:56.852\n他的進度如何?我們執法的部分的話我們現在未來會在11月30日之後就會發布那我剛才關心的就是說目前我們金管會要如何確保社群平台啊因為現在我們看到有幾家銀行嘛他們對於這種沒有採私名制的這些網路平台就是不再跟他投廣告嘛\n\n12:57.532 --> 13:08.209\n那對於這種社群平台採實名制的積極性而非僅停留在現在是由金融業它治癒的層面你們未來要如何的去做規劃\n\n13:09.178 --> 13:30.389\n跟委員報告那目前金融業這邊他是採取的是一個自動自發的方式他針對這些沒有實名制的他會請他會把他廣告撤下那未來這一個那個打詐四法生效之後的話那在有關的這個速發部這邊只要是指定的這些平台業者他都必須採用實名制如果沒有採用實名制的話後續都會有相關的罰則好謝謝好謝謝那我們現在\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.578,"end":10.611,"text":"好 謝謝召委我們請法務部我們鄭部長麻煩部長警政署我們張署長署長"},{"start":15.228,"end":42.422,"text":"是部長還有署長早我想我們國人對於詐騙案件感受很深所以今天招委排這個議題我想讓大家更深層的去探討詐欺案件為什麼我們打詐四法上路之後還是詐騙的金額還是維持在很高的一個金額然後案件量還是持續不斷的去上漲"},{"start":43.922,"end":63.058,"text":"那我想我們明年打算的預算增加大概4.8倍當然政府是希望能以打詐視同作戰的決心除惡勿近但是我們看到就是說似乎也仍然不足以有效嚇阻這些詐欺犯罪"},{"start":64.008,"end":76.192,"text":"那我第一個問題先請教署長署長剛才提到說今年7月我們打詐這個就詐欺的這個被害人的被詐欺金額是110億8月9月10月呢有統計嗎8月137億9月118億10月份120億"},{"start":90.255,"end":116.52,"text":"所以今年度所以七、八月份七、八月份是高峰那九到十月是有稍微有降那委員長提的就是說我們打詐四法是在七月份通過通過之後現在就在做這個相關部委執法的這個修訂所以我會覺得這個今年的年底以前先是一個空空期是"},{"start":117.841,"end":135.635,"text":"所以這個詐欺的這種狀況還是屬於高浩發的一個階段但是我看這案件是有漸漸的往下走因為你現在看有一些網路廣告平台你如果沒有實名制有很多人都沒有辦法配合"},{"start":136.195,"end":142.701,"text":"從11月開始還沒統計統計到10月份就已經高達了10月還有120億是個高峰期所以11月截至目前為止你沒有做過統計因為今天已經11月21號了"},{"start":159.517,"end":176.305,"text":"十一月會下降嗎?趨勢會下降嗎?我現在看因為我們每天都會公佈疫苗盤大概在1億到5億左右這張我剛才有講過就是說在7到8月份大概在4億多9到10月份大概3億9差不多2000多萬一天所以說這個數字看起來是"},{"start":183.088,"end":206.655,"text":"緩步的再往下走那種趨勢你10月還在還比那個9月還多啊你說我看到就沒有了但你10月份大概到80倍了那我希望你講的是那個能夠是真實反應真實面11月我們希望看到你11月統計數字確實有呈現下降的一個趨勢我相信這個每天的儀表版我每天都跟他公佈而且是真實的數據"},{"start":209.996,"end":232.822,"text":"現在打詐四法通過打詐的政策推行後我們現在目前看到的趨勢就是案件數及受害者的財損金額一直增加部長你認為為什麼一直增加這個趨勢的原因是什麼為什麼工具給了法案也都已經上路了"},{"start":234.09,"end":254.524,"text":"那是什麼原因?以前那個都是電信詐騙都是我們傳統我們都會接到那個電話那那個是亂槍打鳥式的嘛那現在的那個詐騙的形象因為詐騙也會進化所以他現在最主要的詐騙的類型他現在是比較轉向那個投資型的一個廣告那投資廣告的詐騙金額多"},{"start":255.805,"end":270.831,"text":"那些這個被害人的話他可能對象會資歷會比我們對象先打電話會資歷比較大所以不然你意思說現在就傳統的用打電話來行騙的這個類型已經慢慢減少了現在大宗的就是網路詐欺啦尤其是投資的部分"},{"start":274.333,"end":293.681,"text":"這個投資詐騙的這部分的確是比較因為他有做一些包裝所以這些投資大眾會誤信誤信所以他等到發掘到的時候可能那個錢已經出了好幾筆部長你這樣回答可以那署長你的類型觀察到類型是不是因為網路投資的類型沒有錯現在的詐欺第一名就是"},{"start":294.421,"end":319.788,"text":"這是投資型的網絡投資型的詐欺就是把你這個訊息投放給你就是高暴力高高高手的很快的時間就可以獲利把它點入他的點擊之後然後進入他的那個群組來的一直來養起來這樣好幫你套起來然後就在裡面詐騙話語了解其實是這種投資類型的是大宗大宗大概佔百分之六七十"},{"start":320.989,"end":331.777,"text":"就是你們有一個165的APP打詐的APP嘛對建置這個費用大概多少大概一千多萬一千多萬嘛對速發部勒 速發部我們是副署長副署長請問啊那你們的建構的這個打詐APP總共花多少錢"},{"start":353.317,"end":379.527,"text":"6千萬6千萬難怪剛才謝榮介會那麼生氣你們把這個業務不如移轉給我們那個警政署你們花了6千萬我有看到那個王世堅委員講說速發布建制這個APP花了6千萬比警政署多了6倍結果你們的成效非常的差"},{"start":382.241,"end":401.598,"text":"我們今年建制的費用是不到一千萬那王委員所稱的六千萬是明年的 明年的費用那這些費用並不是只有建制費用因為還有包含一些可能未來還有一些客服可能要委外所以基本上明年六千萬明年變到五千多萬今年一千多萬所以是王委員質詢錯誤啊"},{"start":404.81,"end":416.472,"text":"因為你們署長還講說你們部長還回答說因為這個還在測試階段啊所以成效不彰啊所以你今天跟我講那是明年才是建制費用是六千萬"},{"start":418.002,"end":441.364,"text":"已經建置好了這個費用是延續性的是 所以你們是花了六千萬嘛是不是 你不要在這邊胡說八道喔到底是六千萬還是一千多萬委員我們重新說一遍就是說因為它今年是先建置然後明年的部分是建置再加上客服的部分因為我們還是要一些服務然後還是 比如說"},{"start":442.805,"end":459.906,"text":"接聽接聽電話跟確認內容然後還有要去這個其實是蠻花人力的然後另外的話可能有比如說各個就是團體跟使用者有很多的需求需要把它修改我告訴你們"},{"start":461.468,"end":488.948,"text":"因為我們看警政署真的很辛苦花了一千多萬建立這個一六的APP反詐APP但是你們明年你說六千多萬嘛要花那麼多的錢但是我們要看到的人民要看到是你們能夠這個把錢花在刀口上你要有積極的成效讓我們看到但是現在抒發部一直為人詬病的對整個打詐的一個功效啊做得非常的差"},{"start":490.598,"end":509.358,"text":"剛才署長他們就是針對我們網路詐欺投資犯罪類型會這個有這麼重大的一個案件書一直在攀升被騙金額也那麼高請問訴法部對於這種網路詐欺的投資犯罪有什麼樣的一個政策工具能夠去遏止"},{"start":510.91,"end":527.262,"text":"委員好謝謝給我們說明就是我們針對打詐四法的部分裡面像比如說詐欺犯罪防治條例以及那個洗房法的部分有授予我們就是要提出四個六個執法"},{"start":529.023,"end":555.69,"text":"那我們六個執法目前也都已經訂定然後我們會依據時間在就是11月30號之前就是會去做一個公佈那之前針對就是網路廣告平台業者還有第三方支付跟電商業以及網路連線遊戲的部分其實我們都非常積極的去做一些行政指導跟行政檢查的部分那這個部分就是"},{"start":557.151,"end":571.723,"text":"陳如我們之前部長有提到的我們非常的期待就是說也有預期我們在明年有關詐欺的部分會因為我們積極的處理然後他會下降我想你剛才給你很多時間去這個去做一個說明"},{"start":574.585,"end":584.228,"text":"根據軍管會的統計顯示,截至今年10月底,僅Google與Meta的投資詐騙廣告量就高達63,191件顯示非實名制的廣告已成為詐騙的重要來源,許多詐騙集團利用境外作為規避執法"},{"start":596.371,"end":616.538,"text":"的一個的一個方式所以請問我們速發部或者是我們法務部金管會金管會上來金管會就是說我們有沒有跨部會的一個聯繫還有我們跟國際的平台這些不管是google還有facebook我們如何建立更緊密的合作關係"},{"start":619.541,"end":639.836,"text":"請司法部先回答這個部分一直是我們部長非常非常積極要求我們要跟他們去做一個比較好的一個聯防跟協作的部分那他們也非常的配合然後也有提到說在今年年底之前他們都會把這個實名制的部分做好FB還有Google"},{"start":642.978,"end":650.983,"text":"GOOGLE、LINE、TITO都一樣只有訴發部還有法務部有沒有共同參與?"},{"start":652.593,"end":676.455,"text":"這個法務部本來在太高監署我們就有一些的跟各部會的做一個聯繫平台所以我們會把檢察官的那些辦案的這些的發現我們可以再加強部我們會回饋給各部會所以各部會就是因為我們這樣大家共襄盛舉大家群聚所以過了很多那個制度大家為有關心的就是其實法務部也跟那個網路社群軟體包括"},{"start":677.055,"end":699.117,"text":"LINE、META、GOOGLE這些有建立的資料調取的一個協議那這部分我想我們這邊都在進行那另外那個涉及詐騙廣告這部分有建立這個剛才有講通報下架機制或透過那個一些的停止的一個網頁的一個解析那這部分就做以上的補充那另外金管會呢"},{"start":700.098,"end":720.174,"text":"監管會我想問你就是說對於這個社群平台採實名制的積極性你們如何的去做一個法規的調整跟委員報告那目前的話剛剛委員其實已經有提到說我們現在的投資詐騙其實已經有發生6萬多件那跟委員報告這個6萬多件的話都是我們在"},{"start":721.294,"end":744.015,"text":"在網路平台上我們主動去收報出來的那發覺說他違反了我們目前我們目前先用的是投進投庫法他用冒名的方式或是匿名的方式去做的這一部分我們在第一時間然後就請親自警察局這邊幫我們去幫他下架那目前的話我們執行的策略就是我們在搶速度我們速度越快能夠讓他下架的話那這"},{"start":744.837,"end":751.818,"text":"被害人就不容易被看到是 那個 教練我再問你就是目前詐欺犯罪委員會條例授權的執法"},{"start":753.203,"end":776.852,"text":"他的進度如何?我們執法的部分的話我們現在未來會在11月30日之後就會發布那我剛才關心的就是說目前我們金管會要如何確保社群平台啊因為現在我們看到有幾家銀行嘛他們對於這種沒有採私名制的這些網路平台就是不再跟他投廣告嘛"},{"start":777.532,"end":788.209,"text":"那對於這種社群平台採實名制的積極性而非僅停留在現在是由金融業它治癒的層面你們未來要如何的去做規劃"},{"start":789.178,"end":810.389,"text":"跟委員報告那目前金融業這邊他是採取的是一個自動自發的方式他針對這些沒有實名制的他會請他會把他廣告撤下那未來這一個那個打詐四法生效之後的話那在有關的這個速發部這邊只要是指定的這些平台業者他都必須採用實名制如果沒有採用實名制的話後續都會有相關的罰則好謝謝好謝謝那我們現在"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":704,"blocks":[["林委員思銘：（9時49分）謝謝召委，請法務部鄭部長及警政署張署長。"],["主席：麻煩部長、署長。"],["鄭部長銘謙：委員早。"],["林委員思銘：部長還有署長早。我想我們國人對詐騙案件感受很深啦！所以今天召委排這個議題，我想讓大家更深層的去探討詐欺案件，為什麼我們打詐四法上路之後，詐騙的金額還是維持在很高的一個金額，然後案件量還是持續不斷的上漲。我們明年的預算增加大概4.8倍，當然政府是希望能以打詐視同作戰的決心除惡務盡，但是我們看到似乎仍然不足以有效嚇阻這些詐欺犯罪。我第一個問題先請教署長，署長你剛才提到說，今年7月詐欺被害人的被詐欺金額是111億……"],["張署長榮興：110億。"],["林委員思銘：8月、9月、10月有統計嗎？"],["張署長榮興：8月137億，9月118億，10月份120億，所以今年度7、8月份是高峰，9到10月稍微有降了。委員剛才提的就是說我們打詐四法是在7月份通過，通過之後現在是在做相關部會子法的修訂，所以我的感覺在今年的年底以前是一個空窗期，所以詐欺的這種狀況還是屬於高好發的一個階段，但是我看這個案件是有漸漸在往下走，因為你現在看一些網路廣告平臺，如果沒有實名制的話，很多銀行都沒有要跟它配合了。"],["林委員思銘：這是你的看法，你是說從11月開始，因為11月你還沒統計。"],["張署長榮興：還沒，只統計到10月份。"],["林委員思銘：統計到10月份就已經高達了……10月還有120億啊！還是一個高峰期啊！"],["張署長榮興：對。"],["林委員思銘：所以11月……如果截至目前為止，你有沒有做過統計？"],["張署長榮興：11月份的總total？"],["林委員思銘：因為今天已經11月21號了，會下降嗎？趨勢會下降嗎？"],["張署長榮興：因為我們每天都會公布儀表板，大概是1億到5億左右，在這中間，我剛才有說過了，7到8月份大概在四億多，9到10月大概是3億9,000，一天差了兩千多萬，所以這個數字看起來是緩步的往下走那種趨勢。"],["林委員思銘：沒有，你10月還比9月多啊！我看到的趨勢就不是這樣啊！"],["張署長榮興：但是10月又降回118億。"],["林委員思銘：我希望你講的能夠真實反映真實面，我們希望看到你11月的統計數字確實有呈現下降的趨勢。"],["張署長榮興：是，每天的儀表板我們都有公布，而且是真實的數據。"],["林委員思銘：OK。接下來請教部長，現在我們打詐四法通過，打詐的政策推行後，目前我們看到的趨勢就是案件數以及受害者的財損金額一直增加，部長，你認為為什麼會一直增加？這個趨勢的原因是什麼？為什麼工具給了，法案也都已經上路了，是什麼原因？"],["鄭部長銘謙：以前的電信詐騙我們會接到電話，那個是亂槍打鳥式的，那現在的詐騙行銷，因為詐團也會進化，所以他現在最主要的詐騙類型是比較轉向投資型的廣告，那投資型廣告因為詐騙金額多，那些被害人的損失會比亂槍打鳥大。"],["林委員思銘：所以部長你的意思是說，傳統用打電話來行騙的類型已經慢慢減少了，現在大宗的就是網路詐欺，尤其是投資的部分。"],["鄭部長銘謙：對，投資詐騙的這部分的確是比較……因為他有做一些包裝，所以這些投資大眾會誤信，等到他發覺到的時候，可能錢已經出了好幾筆。"],["林委員思銘：好，部長，你這樣的回答可以。署長，那你觀察到的類型是不是網路投資……"],["張署長榮興：沒有錯，現在的詐欺第一名就是網路投資型的詐欺，就是把高暴利的訊息透露給你，很快的時間就可以獲利，點入它的點擊之後，進入他的群組裡面，他就把你養起來、把你套起來，然後就在裡面詐騙。"],["林委員思銘：了解，既然這種投資類型的是大宗……"],["張署長榮興：大宗，大概占百分之六、七十。"],["林委員思銘：那我現在要問你，你們有一個165的app，打詐的app，建置的費用大概是多少？"],["張署長榮興：大概一千多萬。"],["林委員思銘：那數發部呢？副署長，請問你們建構的打詐app總共花了多少錢？"],["陳副署長慧敏：6,000萬。"],["林委員思銘：6,000萬？難怪剛才謝龍介會那麼生氣，你們這個業務不如移轉給警政署，你們花了6,000萬，我有看到王世堅委員講說數發部建置這個app花了6,000萬，比警政署多了6倍，結果你們的成效非常地差。"],["黃簡任視察國源：抱歉，報告委員，更正一下，我們今年建置的費用不到1,000萬，那王委員所稱的6,000萬是明年的費用，這些費用並不是只有建置費用，因為還有包括未來的一些客服可能要委外，所以基本上……"],["林委員思銘：明年6,000萬？"],["黃簡任視察國源：明年編到五千多萬。"],["林委員思銘：今年一千多萬？所以是王委員質詢錯誤？"],["黃簡任視察國源：不是，因為當時的數字……"],["林委員思銘：你們部長還回答說，因為這個還在測試階段，所以成效不彰，所以你今天跟我講明年的建置費用才是6,000萬？"],["黃簡任視察國源：已經建置好了，這個費用是延續性的。"],["林委員思銘：是，所以你們花了6,000萬嘛！是不是？你不要在這邊胡說八道，到底是6,000萬還是一千多萬？"],["陳副署長慧敏：委員，我們重新說一遍，因為它今年是先建置，然後明年的部分是建置再加上客服的部分，因為我們還是要一些服務，比如說接聽電話跟確認內容，然後還有要去……這個其實是滿花人力的，然後另外的話，可能有比如說各個團體跟使用者有很多的需求需要把它修改。"],["林委員思銘：這樣啦！數發部。"],["陳副署長慧敏：是。"],["林委員思銘：我告訴你們，因為我們看警政署真的很辛苦，花了一千多萬建立這個165的反詐app，但是明年你說六千多萬，要花那麼多的錢，我們要看到的、人民要看到的是你們能夠把錢花在刀口上，你要有積極的成效讓我們看到。但是現在數發部一直為人詬病的，對於整個打詐的功效做得非常地差，剛才署長他們說網路詐欺投資犯罪類型的案件數一直在攀升，被騙金額也那麼高，請問數發部，對於這種網路詐欺的投資犯罪，有什麼樣的政策工具能夠去遏止？"],["陳副署長慧敏：謝謝給我們說明，我們針對打詐四法的部分，比如說詐欺犯罪防治條例以及洗防法的部分，有授予我們要提出6個子法，那我們的6個子法目前也都已經訂定，然後我們會依據時間，在11月30號之前公布，之前針對網路廣告平臺業者，還有第三方支付跟電商業以及網路連線遊戲的部分，其實我們都非常積極地去做一些行政指導跟行政檢查的部分，這個部分就是誠如我們部長之前有提到的，我們非常的期待，也預期明年有關詐欺的部分，會因為我們積極地處理而下降。"],["林委員思銘：剛剛我給你很多時間去做一個說明，我們根據金管會的統計顯示，截至今年10月底，僅Google與Meta的投資詐騙廣告量就高達6萬3,191件，顯示非實名制的廣告已成為詐騙的重要來源，許多的詐騙集團利用境外作為規避執法的方式，所以請問數發部、法務部或金管會，我們有沒有跨部會的聯繫，我們跟國際平台，不管是Google還是Facebook如何建立更緊密的合作關係？請數發部先回答。"],["陳副署長慧敏：這個部分一直是我們部長非常積極要求我們要跟他們去做一個比較好的聯防跟協作，他們也非常配合，也有提到在今年年底之前都會把實名制的部分做好。"],["林委員思銘：是跟誰配合？是跟FB還有Google嗎？"],["陳副署長慧敏：Google、LINE，還有TikTok都一樣。"],["林委員思銘：是只有數發部嗎？法務部有沒有共同參與？"],["鄭部長銘謙：法務部本來在臺高檢署就有跟各部會做聯繫平台，我們會把檢察官辦案的發現，把可加強的部分回饋給各部會，各部會就是因為我們這樣做，所以大家能共襄盛舉地過了很多制度。另外剛剛委員關心的，其實法務部也跟網路社群軟體，包括LINE、Meta、Google這些平台有建立資料調取的協議，這部分我們這邊都有在進行。另外涉及詐騙廣告的部分，我們有建立剛才我講到的通報下架機制，或是透過一些停止網頁的解析，這部分就作以上的補充。"],["林委員思銘：好，那金管會呢？我想問金管會，對於社群平台採實名制的積極性，會如何做一個法規的調整？"],["黃副局長厚銘：跟委員報告，目前的話剛剛委員其實已經提到，我們現在的投資詐騙已發生了六萬多件，而這六萬多件都是我們在網路平台上主動去蒐報出來的，發覺它違反了……我們目前用的是投信投顧法，它用冒名的方式或是匿名的方式去做的這部分，我們在第一時間拿回來的就會請刑事警察局幫我們把它下架，目前我們執行的策略是，我們在搶速度，能以愈快的速度讓它下架的話，被害人就不容易被看到。"],["林委員思銘：我再問你，目前詐欺犯罪危害防制條例授權子法的進度如何？"],["黃副局長厚銘：子法的部分，我們未來會在11月30號發布，到時候就會按照……"],["林委員思銘：我剛剛關心的是，目前金管會要如何確保社群平台……因為現在我們有看到幾家銀行，他們對於這種沒有採實名制的這些網路平台，就是不再向它投放廣告嘛！對於這種社群平台採實名制的積極性，而非僅停留在現在是由金融業自律的層面，你們未來要如何去規劃？"],["黃副局長厚銘：跟委員報告，目前金融業這邊採取的是自動自發的方式……"],["林委員思銘：自律的嘛！"],["黃副局長厚銘：對，針對這些沒有實名制的，他們會把它的廣告撤下來。未來這個打詐子法生效之後，有關的數發部這邊，只要是指定的這些平台業者，都必須採用實名制，如果沒有採用實名制的話，後續都有相關的罰責。"],["林委員思銘：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","下一位我們請莊瑞雄委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":312,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-36-15","speakers":["吳宗憲","黃國昌","謝龍介","林思銘","莊瑞雄","陳俊宇","鍾佳濱","吳思瑤","徐巧芯","羅智強","陳培瑜","林淑芬","翁曉玲","洪孟楷","麥玉珍","楊瓊瓔","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","李坤城","沈發惠","傅崐萁"],"page_start":215,"meetingDate":["2024-11-21"],"gazette_id":"11310401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310401_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請司法院、法務部部長、內政部部長、內政部警政署署長、內政部移民署署長、勞動部、數位\n發展部、國家通訊傳播委員會、行政院打擊詐欺指揮中心、金融監督管理委員會率所屬相關單位\n列席就「如何遏止移工及青少年淪為詐騙集團工具，及打詐四法施行後相關子法及配套措施進度\n與具體成效之檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"11310401_00004"}}}