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{\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 742.136, \"end\": 742.296, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 742.296, \"end\": 743.056, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"氣\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 743.056, \"end\": 744.097, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"節\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 744.097, \"end\": 744.497, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 744.497, \"end\": 744.897, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"塊\"}, {\"word\": \"增\", \"start\": 744.897, \"end\": 745.138, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 745.138, \"end\": 745.618, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"系\", \"start\": 745.618, \"end\": 745.798, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 745.798, \"end\": 746.238, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"韌\"}, {\"word\": \"性\", \"start\": 746.238, \"end\": 746.819, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 746.819, \"end\": 746.919, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 746.919, \"end\": 747.079, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 747.079, \"end\": 747.099, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 747.099, \"end\": 747.179, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 747.179, \"end\": 747.539, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"容\", \"start\": 747.539, \"end\": 747.759, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 747.759, \"end\": 747.879, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 747.879, \"end\": 748.099, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 748.099, \"end\": 748.239, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 748.239, \"end\": 748.499, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"差\", \"start\": 748.499, \"end\": 748.7, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 748.7, \"end\": 748.86, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 748.86, \"end\": 748.88, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"陳\"}, {\"word\": \"菁\", \"start\": 749.9, \"end\": 750.081, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"徽\", \"start\": 750.081, \"end\": 750.101, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 764.718, \"end\": 764.818, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"指\", \"start\": 764.818, \"end\": 764.858, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 764.858, \"end\": 764.878, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,233 --> 00:00:09,937\n主席謝謝各位官員那就求補償委員好\n\n2\n00:00:19,827 --> 00:00:41,353\n部長昨天我在財政委員會其實下午就發出這篇文章在翠上面的文章說除了勞動部昨天是矚目的焦點以外也有籍管署的同仁上網陳情那當時您說調查報告大概兩個月會出來但昨天晚上行政院院長\n\n3\n00:00:42,233 --> 00:01:02,648\n道歉並且規定大家要一週內完成調查報告的時候呢很晚的時候集管署又重新發了一個新聞稿說一週內會完成那這邊也想在這邊跟部長說其實勞動部最為人詬病的就是第一他的調查小組不夠公正不夠超然裡面很多就自己人\n\n4\n00:01:03,228 --> 00:01:32,020\n所以最後呢很多調查報告不管是在其他的單位或是在勞動部都不了了之變成一個壓力鍋的燜燒導致於有不幸的親身事件所以你有沒有辦法在這邊承諾因為昨天其實不瞞您說下午回去有人就打電話匿名電話進來然後又有寫簡訊的等一下會給你一封信的證本但我們都會一一的經過查證那也希望您可以審慎的處理您可以在這邊承諾\n\n5\n00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:56,401\n不要有這個要不要請外部的人或是公正超人的立場來成立所有衛福部相關的調查小組嗎我想我們一定按照規定來處理那時程因為大家關注所以我們把整個兩個月的時程縮成一個禮拜要來完成那這個裡面是相當的詳細是不是請機關署莊署長來報告一下\n\n6\n00:01:59,083 --> 00:02:22,411\n報告委員因為本來規定是兩個月內因為要做非常多的事情比如說我們要延展外部的委員還有就進行匿名問卷的調查根據調查結果我們要去選取面談的對象進行面談跟寫報告所以我們大概是用比較寬裕的時間希望能夠把它完成但是你沒有選外部的人\n\n7\n00:02:22,571 --> 00:02:22,992\n主席主席\n\n8\n00:02:41,962 --> 00:03:05,950\n這邊是昨天的下午有收到電話電話打進來澄清說請我們本辦公室要相信脆上面的留言因為他就是在機關署其他單位工作的同仁那他是親眼看著這個組長曾經對著同仁罵豬啊等等的那再來呢昨天晚上好晚的時候又接到一封澄清信他是在講說\n\n9\n00:03:07,330 --> 00:03:07,790\n他說不只是這個組長\n\n10\n00:03:25,101 --> 00:03:48,156\n上行下校庫立準備組組長是聯合底下的科長檢記集體的霸凌壓榨同仁逼的大家不得不離職掉職降調退休甚至請育嬰假等等的逃離現場不管是工作負荷量大身兼數職人力嚴重不足流動率過高入罵同仁能力差\n\n11\n00:03:48,776 --> 00:03:48,996\n﹚陳菁徽\n\n12\n00:04:07,913 --> 00:04:17,961\n的主管是如此其他的主事呢其實除了這個比較具體的信等一下我會交給部長來幫他們澄清陸陸續續一直都有email進來啊簡訊進來等等的\n\n13\n00:04:33,306 --> 00:04:34,326\n陳菁徽\n\n14\n00:04:55,111 --> 00:05:22,077\n搞了一個小時嗎考機會搞了一個小時他說他沒有這個權限後來院長出來道歉了以後晚上他又開始召開這個考機會馬上召開了三小時然後說喔好他要宣布他記兩個大過免職這是嚴重的違反行政瑕疵更慘的是最後這位分署長的律師信就出來了他的律師信是告訴大家說根據我們勞動部的調查報告啊他沒有\n\n15\n00:05:22,978 --> 00:05:23,018\n陳菁徽\n\n16\n00:05:53,262 --> 00:05:56,855\n10月28號您應該就會有疾管署的初步報告出來了\n\n17\n00:05:59,715 --> 00:06:24,905\n謝謝委員的指教我非常清楚我再重申我們不容許有任何職場的霸凌所以只要有任何相關的信息我們一定嚴加調查嚴加辦理我想這是那個一定這是最大的原則而且所有相關的部門如果是那個部門像機關署我們要求最快的適度那後續所以你的考機會\n\n18\n00:06:26,246 --> 00:06:26,286\n陳秦涵\n\n19\n00:06:44,915 --> 00:07:13,761\n這是近期內許多人民關心的議題因為石署長因為邱部長曾經在之前新聞的採訪說到兩年是部長建保費要用三支箭拼改革但是石署長在最近又公開的說在研擬補充保費的三項調整與一般保費來做溝通並且說針對六大類比如說許許多多很辛苦在爭取獎金的這些壽星階級他要分別制定\n\n20\n00:07:14,221 --> 00:07:14,321\n陳菁徽\n\n21\n00:07:38,138 --> 00:08:03,297\n建保經費提到三成八等等還有許多公務預算都應該由建保支付的項目盡快處理可以給大家一個進程嗎?為什麼會有這樣子不同調的出現?我想沒有不同調所謂的不轉保惠就是我們那個惠利一般保惠啦一般保惠因為這個比較影響層面比較大那至於調整\n\n22\n00:08:04,498 --> 00:08:22,576\n補充保費這件事情一直都是我們的策略之一那現在健保署提出一個很可是調整補充保費您要修健保法所以您是意思是說你要左手開始修健保法嗎我們現在都演你我是不是請署署長報告一下\n\n23\n00:08:22,976 --> 00:08:38,745\n跟委員報告因為目前健保法的規定那麼補充保費的調漲是跟隨一般保費的費率調動的他是連動而且在補充保費裡面有6項的補充保費費率一樣那這個確實你要把它6項分不同的費率\n\n24\n00:08:38,885 --> 00:08:40,785\n您是預計什麼時候要開始著手修這個健保法?\n\n25\n00:09:04,051 --> 00:09:19,405\n目前內部都已經在研議這個修法的方向那到一個階段會再跟外界做溝通之後再進入到修法的所以你的意思是說等你們調整完以後大概也就是部長講的兩年內啦所以大概是兩年後啊也需要一點時間\n\n26\n00:09:20,646 --> 00:09:37,399\n那我們會再繼續跟你一起研擬這件事情那最後一題最後一題是想問說邱部長今天你有列在公務預算中用醫政業務這個執行的韌性國家醫療整備計畫看起來是114年編列了17.52\n\n27\n00:09:39,821 --> 00:10:08,500\n總數其實是4年啊他是從113年連續4年總數是76.6億那我們不管是透過電話詢問或是詢問主計總處等等的都說是不能公開的一個機密那如果是機密的話我也想請您稍微講一下是你們採購合約的機密還是機密的預算還是涉及機密的事項因為我們對於你這個任性國家醫療準備計畫是一無所知\n\n28\n00:10:14,964 --> 00:10:37,439\n這個任性醫療國家的計畫其實是主要是針對大型或特殊災難事件的時候我們重新檢視過我們自己的應變的量能從921之後其實剛開始是天然災害可是隨著極端氣候然後甚至是說我們看到的那個天然災害也變得嚴峻加劇了所以在這個地方上面做一個\n\n29\n00:10:38,359 --> 00:10:53,828\n您說天然災害但是你很快的113就開始招標你在招標的上面是寫因應複合式災難還有全球軌跡多變的局勢未來台海衝突事件以及不可預期的災難災害必須加強戰場的災難醫療整備這個是你們招標的對於這個計畫講的\n\n30\n00:11:02,653 --> 00:11:23,228\n對因為就是說所有的應變裡面其實這幾個都是我們過去比較沒有經驗的所以您的意思是說在113114之前您覺得我們國家醫療韌性對於戰爭的支撐比較短那經過這個計畫你們想要再把它拉長讓我們韌性再更久一點\n\n31\n00:11:24,008 --> 00:11:35,282\n不是是我們所有對創傷這一塊的處理的量能然後跟經驗其實相對上面都需要做提升所以才會是說這個我們寫的是一個最嚴重的可能會是戰爭可是對於就是說我們看到了極端氣候產生的包括了\n\n32\n00:11:43,491 --> 00:11:43,651\n陳菁徽\n\n33\n00:12:13,711 --> 00:12:28,880\n他們還是把它一項一項的寫出來了對所以環境部那邊的話其實是透過最近其實像COP29就在講的是氣候調節的這一塊增加體系的韌性不是不是他們內容其實也跟你們差不多\n\n34\n00:12:29,900 --> 00:12:30,101\n陳菁徽\n\n35\n00:12:44,718 --> 00:12:44,878\n委員指教\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7233\t9937\t主席謝謝各位官員那就求補償委員好\n19827\t41353\t部長昨天我在財政委員會其實下午就發出這篇文章在翠上面的文章說除了勞動部昨天是矚目的焦點以外也有籍管署的同仁上網陳情那當時您說調查報告大概兩個月會出來但昨天晚上行政院院長\n42233\t62648\t道歉並且規定大家要一週內完成調查報告的時候呢很晚的時候集管署又重新發了一個新聞稿說一週內會完成那這邊也想在這邊跟部長說其實勞動部最為人詬病的就是第一他的調查小組不夠公正不夠超然裡面很多就自己人\n63228\t92020\t所以最後呢很多調查報告不管是在其他的單位或是在勞動部都不了了之變成一個壓力鍋的燜燒導致於有不幸的親身事件所以你有沒有辦法在這邊承諾因為昨天其實不瞞您說下午回去有人就打電話匿名電話進來然後又有寫簡訊的等一下會給你一封信的證本但我們都會一一的經過查證那也希望您可以審慎的處理您可以在這邊承諾\n93160\t116401\t不要有這個要不要請外部的人或是公正超人的立場來成立所有衛福部相關的調查小組嗎我想我們一定按照規定來處理那時程因為大家關注所以我們把整個兩個月的時程縮成一個禮拜要來完成那這個裡面是相當的詳細是不是請機關署莊署長來報告一下\n119083\t142411\t報告委員 因為本來規定是兩個月內 因為要做非常多的事情 比如說我們要延展外部的委員還有就進行匿名問卷的調查 根據調查結果 我們要去選取面談的對象 進行面談跟寫報告所以我們大概是用比較寬裕的時間 希望能夠把它完成但是你沒有選外部的人\n142571\t142992\t主席主席\n161962\t185950\t這邊是昨天的下午有收到電話電話打進來澄清說請我們本辦公室要相信脆上面的留言因為他就是在機關署其他單位工作的同仁那他是親眼看著這個組長曾經對著同仁罵豬啊等等的那再來呢昨天晚上好晚的時候又接到一封澄清信他是在講說\n187330\t187790\t他說不只是這個組長\n205101\t228156\t上行下校庫立準備組組長是聯合底下的科長檢記集體的霸凌壓榨同仁逼的大家不得不離職掉職降調退休甚至請育嬰假等等的逃離現場不管是工作負荷量大身兼數職人力嚴重不足流動率過高入罵同仁能力差\n228776\t228996\t﹚陳菁徽\n247913\t257961\t的主管是如此其他的主事呢其實除了這個比較具體的信等一下我會交給部長來幫他們澄清陸陸續續一直都有email進來啊簡訊進來等等的\n273306\t274326\t陳菁徽\n295111\t322077\t搞了一個小時嗎考機會搞了一個小時他說他沒有這個權限後來院長出來道歉了以後晚上他又開始召開這個考機會馬上召開了三小時然後說喔好他要宣布他記兩個大過免職這是嚴重的違反行政瑕疵更慘的是最後這位分署長的律師信就出來了他的律師信是告訴大家說根據我們勞動部的調查報告啊他沒有\n322978\t323018\t陳菁徽\n353262\t356855\t10月28號您應該就會有疾管署的初步報告出來了\n359715\t384905\t謝謝委員的指教我非常清楚我再重申我們不容許有任何職場的霸凌所以只要有任何相關的信息我們一定嚴加調查嚴加辦理我想這是那個一定這是最大的原則而且所有相關的部門如果是那個部門像機關署我們要求最快的適度那後續所以你的考機會\n386246\t386286\t陳秦涵\n404915\t433761\t這是近期內許多人民關心的議題因為石署長因為邱部長曾經在之前新聞的採訪說到兩年是部長建保費要用三支箭拼改革但是石署長在最近又公開的說在研擬補充保費的三項調整與一般保費來做溝通並且說針對六大類比如說許許多多很辛苦在爭取獎金的這些壽星階級他要分別制定\n434221\t434321\t陳菁徽\n458138\t483297\t建保經費提到三成八等等還有許多公務預算都應該由建保支付的項目盡快處理可以給大家一個進程嗎?為什麼會有這樣子不同調的出現?我想沒有不同調所謂的不轉保惠就是我們那個惠利一般保惠啦一般保惠因為這個比較影響層面比較大那至於調整\n484498\t502576\t補充保費這件事情一直都是我們的策略之一那現在健保署提出一個很可是調整補充保費您要修健保法所以您是意思是說你要左手開始修健保法嗎我們現在都演你我是不是請署署長報告一下\n502976\t518745\t跟委員報告因為目前健保法的規定那麼補充保費的調漲是跟隨一般保費的費率調動的他是連動而且在補充保費裡面有6項的補充保費費率一樣那這個確實你要把它6項分不同的費率\n518885\t520785\t您是預計什麼時候要開始著手修這個健保法?\n544051\t559405\t目前內部都已經在研議這個修法的方向那到一個階段會再跟外界做溝通之後再進入到修法的所以你的意思是說等你們調整完以後大概也就是部長講的兩年內啦所以大概是兩年後啊也需要一點時間\n560646\t577399\t那我們會再繼續跟你一起研擬這件事情那最後一題最後一題是想問說邱部長今天你有列在公務預算中用醫政業務這個執行的韌性國家醫療整備計畫看起來是114年編列了17.52\n579821\t608500\t總數其實是4年啊他是從113年連續4年總數是76.6億那我們不管是透過電話詢問或是詢問主計總處等等的都說是不能公開的一個機密那如果是機密的話我也想請您稍微講一下是你們採購合約的機密還是機密的預算還是涉及機密的事項因為我們對於你這個任性國家醫療準備計畫是一無所知\n614964\t637439\t這個任性醫療國家的計畫其實是主要是針對大型或特殊災難事件的時候我們重新檢視過我們自己的應變的量能從921之後其實剛開始是天然災害可是隨著極端氣候然後甚至是說我們看到的那個天然災害也變得嚴峻加劇了所以在這個地方上面做一個\n638359\t653828\t您說天然災害但是你很快的113就開始招標你在招標的上面是寫因應複合式災難還有全球軌跡多變的局勢未來台海衝突事件以及不可預期的災難災害必須加強戰場的災難醫療整備這個是你們招標的對於這個計畫講的\n662653\t683228\t對 因為就是說所有的應變裡面其實這幾個都是我們過去比較沒有經驗的所以您的意思是說在113 114之前您覺得我們國家醫療韌性對於戰爭的支撐比較短那經過這個計畫你們想要再把它拉長讓我們韌性再更久一點\n684008\t695282\t不是是我們所有對創傷這一塊的處理的量能然後跟經驗其實相對上面都需要做提升所以才會是說這個我們寫的是一個最嚴重的可能會是戰爭可是對於就是說我們看到了極端氣候產生的包括了\n703491\t703651\t陳菁徽\n733711\t748880\t他們還是把它一項一項的寫出來了對 所以環境部那邊的話其實是透過最近其實像COP29就在講的是氣候調節的這一塊增加體系的韌性不是不是 他們內容其實也跟你們差不多\n749900\t750101\t陳菁徽\n764718\t764878\t委員指教\n","txt":"主席謝謝各位官員那就求補償委員好\n部長昨天我在財政委員會其實下午就發出這篇文章在翠上面的文章說除了勞動部昨天是矚目的焦點以外也有籍管署的同仁上網陳情那當時您說調查報告大概兩個月會出來但昨天晚上行政院院長\n道歉並且規定大家要一週內完成調查報告的時候呢很晚的時候集管署又重新發了一個新聞稿說一週內會完成那這邊也想在這邊跟部長說其實勞動部最為人詬病的就是第一他的調查小組不夠公正不夠超然裡面很多就自己人\n所以最後呢很多調查報告不管是在其他的單位或是在勞動部都不了了之變成一個壓力鍋的燜燒導致於有不幸的親身事件所以你有沒有辦法在這邊承諾因為昨天其實不瞞您說下午回去有人就打電話匿名電話進來然後又有寫簡訊的等一下會給你一封信的證本但我們都會一一的經過查證那也希望您可以審慎的處理您可以在這邊承諾\n不要有這個要不要請外部的人或是公正超人的立場來成立所有衛福部相關的調查小組嗎我想我們一定按照規定來處理那時程因為大家關注所以我們把整個兩個月的時程縮成一個禮拜要來完成那這個裡面是相當的詳細是不是請機關署莊署長來報告一下\n報告委員 因為本來規定是兩個月內 因為要做非常多的事情 比如說我們要延展外部的委員還有就進行匿名問卷的調查 根據調查結果 我們要去選取面談的對象 進行面談跟寫報告所以我們大概是用比較寬裕的時間 希望能夠把它完成但是你沒有選外部的人\n主席主席\n這邊是昨天的下午有收到電話電話打進來澄清說請我們本辦公室要相信脆上面的留言因為他就是在機關署其他單位工作的同仁那他是親眼看著這個組長曾經對著同仁罵豬啊等等的那再來呢昨天晚上好晚的時候又接到一封澄清信他是在講說\n他說不只是這個組長\n上行下校庫立準備組組長是聯合底下的科長檢記集體的霸凌壓榨同仁逼的大家不得不離職掉職降調退休甚至請育嬰假等等的逃離現場不管是工作負荷量大身兼數職人力嚴重不足流動率過高入罵同仁能力差\n﹚陳菁徽\n的主管是如此其他的主事呢其實除了這個比較具體的信等一下我會交給部長來幫他們澄清陸陸續續一直都有email進來啊簡訊進來等等的\n陳菁徽\n搞了一個小時嗎考機會搞了一個小時他說他沒有這個權限後來院長出來道歉了以後晚上他又開始召開這個考機會馬上召開了三小時然後說喔好他要宣布他記兩個大過免職這是嚴重的違反行政瑕疵更慘的是最後這位分署長的律師信就出來了他的律師信是告訴大家說根據我們勞動部的調查報告啊他沒有\n陳菁徽\n10月28號您應該就會有疾管署的初步報告出來了\n謝謝委員的指教我非常清楚我再重申我們不容許有任何職場的霸凌所以只要有任何相關的信息我們一定嚴加調查嚴加辦理我想這是那個一定這是最大的原則而且所有相關的部門如果是那個部門像機關署我們要求最快的適度那後續所以你的考機會\n陳秦涵\n這是近期內許多人民關心的議題因為石署長因為邱部長曾經在之前新聞的採訪說到兩年是部長建保費要用三支箭拼改革但是石署長在最近又公開的說在研擬補充保費的三項調整與一般保費來做溝通並且說針對六大類比如說許許多多很辛苦在爭取獎金的這些壽星階級他要分別制定\n陳菁徽\n建保經費提到三成八等等還有許多公務預算都應該由建保支付的項目盡快處理可以給大家一個進程嗎?為什麼會有這樣子不同調的出現?我想沒有不同調所謂的不轉保惠就是我們那個惠利一般保惠啦一般保惠因為這個比較影響層面比較大那至於調整\n補充保費這件事情一直都是我們的策略之一那現在健保署提出一個很可是調整補充保費您要修健保法所以您是意思是說你要左手開始修健保法嗎我們現在都演你我是不是請署署長報告一下\n跟委員報告因為目前健保法的規定那麼補充保費的調漲是跟隨一般保費的費率調動的他是連動而且在補充保費裡面有6項的補充保費費率一樣那這個確實你要把它6項分不同的費率\n您是預計什麼時候要開始著手修這個健保法?\n目前內部都已經在研議這個修法的方向那到一個階段會再跟外界做溝通之後再進入到修法的所以你的意思是說等你們調整完以後大概也就是部長講的兩年內啦所以大概是兩年後啊也需要一點時間\n那我們會再繼續跟你一起研擬這件事情那最後一題最後一題是想問說邱部長今天你有列在公務預算中用醫政業務這個執行的韌性國家醫療整備計畫看起來是114年編列了17.52\n總數其實是4年啊他是從113年連續4年總數是76.6億那我們不管是透過電話詢問或是詢問主計總處等等的都說是不能公開的一個機密那如果是機密的話我也想請您稍微講一下是你們採購合約的機密還是機密的預算還是涉及機密的事項因為我們對於你這個任性國家醫療準備計畫是一無所知\n這個任性醫療國家的計畫其實是主要是針對大型或特殊災難事件的時候我們重新檢視過我們自己的應變的量能從921之後其實剛開始是天然災害可是隨著極端氣候然後甚至是說我們看到的那個天然災害也變得嚴峻加劇了所以在這個地方上面做一個\n您說天然災害但是你很快的113就開始招標你在招標的上面是寫因應複合式災難還有全球軌跡多變的局勢未來台海衝突事件以及不可預期的災難災害必須加強戰場的災難醫療整備這個是你們招標的對於這個計畫講的\n對 因為就是說所有的應變裡面其實這幾個都是我們過去比較沒有經驗的所以您的意思是說在113 114之前您覺得我們國家醫療韌性對於戰爭的支撐比較短那經過這個計畫你們想要再把它拉長讓我們韌性再更久一點\n不是是我們所有對創傷這一塊的處理的量能然後跟經驗其實相對上面都需要做提升所以才會是說這個我們寫的是一個最嚴重的可能會是戰爭可是對於就是說我們看到了極端氣候產生的包括了\n陳菁徽\n他們還是把它一項一項的寫出來了對 所以環境部那邊的話其實是透過最近其實像COP29就在講的是氣候調節的這一塊增加體系的韌性不是不是 他們內容其實也跟你們差不多\n陳菁徽\n委員指教\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.233 --> 00:09.937\n主席謝謝各位官員那就求補償委員好\n\n00:19.827 --> 00:41.353\n部長昨天我在財政委員會其實下午就發出這篇文章在翠上面的文章說除了勞動部昨天是矚目的焦點以外也有籍管署的同仁上網陳情那當時您說調查報告大概兩個月會出來但昨天晚上行政院院長\n\n00:42.233 --> 01:02.648\n道歉並且規定大家要一週內完成調查報告的時候呢很晚的時候集管署又重新發了一個新聞稿說一週內會完成那這邊也想在這邊跟部長說其實勞動部最為人詬病的就是第一他的調查小組不夠公正不夠超然裡面很多就自己人\n\n01:03.228 --> 01:32.020\n所以最後呢很多調查報告不管是在其他的單位或是在勞動部都不了了之變成一個壓力鍋的燜燒導致於有不幸的親身事件所以你有沒有辦法在這邊承諾因為昨天其實不瞞您說下午回去有人就打電話匿名電話進來然後又有寫簡訊的等一下會給你一封信的證本但我們都會一一的經過查證那也希望您可以審慎的處理您可以在這邊承諾\n\n01:33.160 --> 01:56.401\n不要有這個要不要請外部的人或是公正超人的立場來成立所有衛福部相關的調查小組嗎我想我們一定按照規定來處理那時程因為大家關注所以我們把整個兩個月的時程縮成一個禮拜要來完成那這個裡面是相當的詳細是不是請機關署莊署長來報告一下\n\n01:59.083 --> 02:22.411\n報告委員因為本來規定是兩個月內因為要做非常多的事情比如說我們要延展外部的委員還有就進行匿名問卷的調查根據調查結果我們要去選取面談的對象進行面談跟寫報告所以我們大概是用比較寬裕的時間希望能夠把它完成但是你沒有選外部的人\n\n02:22.571 --> 02:22.992\n主席主席\n\n02:41.962 --> 03:05.950\n這邊是昨天的下午有收到電話電話打進來澄清說請我們本辦公室要相信脆上面的留言因為他就是在機關署其他單位工作的同仁那他是親眼看著這個組長曾經對著同仁罵豬啊等等的那再來呢昨天晚上好晚的時候又接到一封澄清信他是在講說\n\n03:07.330 --> 03:07.790\n他說不只是這個組長\n\n03:25.101 --> 03:48.156\n上行下校庫立準備組組長是聯合底下的科長檢記集體的霸凌壓榨同仁逼的大家不得不離職掉職降調退休甚至請育嬰假等等的逃離現場不管是工作負荷量大身兼數職人力嚴重不足流動率過高入罵同仁能力差\n\n03:48.776 --> 03:48.996\n﹚陳菁徽\n\n04:07.913 --> 04:17.961\n的主管是如此其他的主事呢其實除了這個比較具體的信等一下我會交給部長來幫他們澄清陸陸續續一直都有email進來啊簡訊進來等等的\n\n04:33.306 --> 04:34.326\n陳菁徽\n\n04:55.111 --> 05:22.077\n搞了一個小時嗎考機會搞了一個小時他說他沒有這個權限後來院長出來道歉了以後晚上他又開始召開這個考機會馬上召開了三小時然後說喔好他要宣布他記兩個大過免職這是嚴重的違反行政瑕疵更慘的是最後這位分署長的律師信就出來了他的律師信是告訴大家說根據我們勞動部的調查報告啊他沒有\n\n05:22.978 --> 05:23.018\n陳菁徽\n\n05:53.262 --> 05:56.855\n10月28號您應該就會有疾管署的初步報告出來了\n\n05:59.715 --> 06:24.905\n謝謝委員的指教我非常清楚我再重申我們不容許有任何職場的霸凌所以只要有任何相關的信息我們一定嚴加調查嚴加辦理我想這是那個一定這是最大的原則而且所有相關的部門如果是那個部門像機關署我們要求最快的適度那後續所以你的考機會\n\n06:26.246 --> 06:26.286\n陳秦涵\n\n06:44.915 --> 07:13.761\n這是近期內許多人民關心的議題因為石署長因為邱部長曾經在之前新聞的採訪說到兩年是部長建保費要用三支箭拼改革但是石署長在最近又公開的說在研擬補充保費的三項調整與一般保費來做溝通並且說針對六大類比如說許許多多很辛苦在爭取獎金的這些壽星階級他要分別制定\n\n07:14.221 --> 07:14.321\n陳菁徽\n\n07:38.138 --> 08:03.297\n建保經費提到三成八等等還有許多公務預算都應該由建保支付的項目盡快處理可以給大家一個進程嗎?為什麼會有這樣子不同調的出現?我想沒有不同調所謂的不轉保惠就是我們那個惠利一般保惠啦一般保惠因為這個比較影響層面比較大那至於調整\n\n08:04.498 --> 08:22.576\n補充保費這件事情一直都是我們的策略之一那現在健保署提出一個很可是調整補充保費您要修健保法所以您是意思是說你要左手開始修健保法嗎我們現在都演你我是不是請署署長報告一下\n\n08:22.976 --> 08:38.745\n跟委員報告因為目前健保法的規定那麼補充保費的調漲是跟隨一般保費的費率調動的他是連動而且在補充保費裡面有6項的補充保費費率一樣那這個確實你要把它6項分不同的費率\n\n08:38.885 --> 08:40.785\n您是預計什麼時候要開始著手修這個健保法?\n\n09:04.051 --> 09:19.405\n目前內部都已經在研議這個修法的方向那到一個階段會再跟外界做溝通之後再進入到修法的所以你的意思是說等你們調整完以後大概也就是部長講的兩年內啦所以大概是兩年後啊也需要一點時間\n\n09:20.646 --> 09:37.399\n那我們會再繼續跟你一起研擬這件事情那最後一題最後一題是想問說邱部長今天你有列在公務預算中用醫政業務這個執行的韌性國家醫療整備計畫看起來是114年編列了17.52\n\n09:39.821 --> 10:08.500\n總數其實是4年啊他是從113年連續4年總數是76.6億那我們不管是透過電話詢問或是詢問主計總處等等的都說是不能公開的一個機密那如果是機密的話我也想請您稍微講一下是你們採購合約的機密還是機密的預算還是涉及機密的事項因為我們對於你這個任性國家醫療準備計畫是一無所知\n\n10:14.964 --> 10:37.439\n這個任性醫療國家的計畫其實是主要是針對大型或特殊災難事件的時候我們重新檢視過我們自己的應變的量能從921之後其實剛開始是天然災害可是隨著極端氣候然後甚至是說我們看到的那個天然災害也變得嚴峻加劇了所以在這個地方上面做一個\n\n10:38.359 --> 10:53.828\n您說天然災害但是你很快的113就開始招標你在招標的上面是寫因應複合式災難還有全球軌跡多變的局勢未來台海衝突事件以及不可預期的災難災害必須加強戰場的災難醫療整備這個是你們招標的對於這個計畫講的\n\n11:02.653 --> 11:23.228\n對因為就是說所有的應變裡面其實這幾個都是我們過去比較沒有經驗的所以您的意思是說在113114之前您覺得我們國家醫療韌性對於戰爭的支撐比較短那經過這個計畫你們想要再把它拉長讓我們韌性再更久一點\n\n11:24.008 --> 11:35.282\n不是是我們所有對創傷這一塊的處理的量能然後跟經驗其實相對上面都需要做提升所以才會是說這個我們寫的是一個最嚴重的可能會是戰爭可是對於就是說我們看到了極端氣候產生的包括了\n\n11:43.491 --> 11:43.651\n陳菁徽\n\n12:13.711 --> 12:28.880\n他們還是把它一項一項的寫出來了對所以環境部那邊的話其實是透過最近其實像COP29就在講的是氣候調節的這一塊增加體系的韌性不是不是他們內容其實也跟你們差不多\n\n12:29.900 --> 12:30.101\n陳菁徽\n\n12:44.718 --> 12:44.878\n委員指教\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.233,"end":9.937,"text":"主席謝謝各位官員那就求補償委員好"},{"start":19.827,"end":41.353,"text":"部長昨天我在財政委員會其實下午就發出這篇文章在翠上面的文章說除了勞動部昨天是矚目的焦點以外也有籍管署的同仁上網陳情那當時您說調查報告大概兩個月會出來但昨天晚上行政院院長"},{"start":42.233,"end":62.648,"text":"道歉並且規定大家要一週內完成調查報告的時候呢很晚的時候集管署又重新發了一個新聞稿說一週內會完成那這邊也想在這邊跟部長說其實勞動部最為人詬病的就是第一他的調查小組不夠公正不夠超然裡面很多就自己人"},{"start":63.228,"end":92.02,"text":"所以最後呢很多調查報告不管是在其他的單位或是在勞動部都不了了之變成一個壓力鍋的燜燒導致於有不幸的親身事件所以你有沒有辦法在這邊承諾因為昨天其實不瞞您說下午回去有人就打電話匿名電話進來然後又有寫簡訊的等一下會給你一封信的證本但我們都會一一的經過查證那也希望您可以審慎的處理您可以在這邊承諾"},{"start":93.16,"end":116.401,"text":"不要有這個要不要請外部的人或是公正超人的立場來成立所有衛福部相關的調查小組嗎我想我們一定按照規定來處理那時程因為大家關注所以我們把整個兩個月的時程縮成一個禮拜要來完成那這個裡面是相當的詳細是不是請機關署莊署長來報告一下"},{"start":119.083,"end":142.411,"text":"報告委員 因為本來規定是兩個月內 因為要做非常多的事情 比如說我們要延展外部的委員還有就進行匿名問卷的調查 根據調查結果 我們要去選取面談的對象 進行面談跟寫報告所以我們大概是用比較寬裕的時間 希望能夠把它完成但是你沒有選外部的人"},{"start":142.571,"end":142.992,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":161.962,"end":185.95,"text":"這邊是昨天的下午有收到電話電話打進來澄清說請我們本辦公室要相信脆上面的留言因為他就是在機關署其他單位工作的同仁那他是親眼看著這個組長曾經對著同仁罵豬啊等等的那再來呢昨天晚上好晚的時候又接到一封澄清信他是在講說"},{"start":187.33,"end":187.79,"text":"他說不只是這個組長"},{"start":205.101,"end":228.156,"text":"上行下校庫立準備組組長是聯合底下的科長檢記集體的霸凌壓榨同仁逼的大家不得不離職掉職降調退休甚至請育嬰假等等的逃離現場不管是工作負荷量大身兼數職人力嚴重不足流動率過高入罵同仁能力差"},{"start":228.776,"end":228.996,"text":"﹚陳菁徽"},{"start":247.913,"end":257.961,"text":"的主管是如此其他的主事呢其實除了這個比較具體的信等一下我會交給部長來幫他們澄清陸陸續續一直都有email進來啊簡訊進來等等的"},{"start":273.306,"end":274.326,"text":"陳菁徽"},{"start":295.111,"end":322.077,"text":"搞了一個小時嗎考機會搞了一個小時他說他沒有這個權限後來院長出來道歉了以後晚上他又開始召開這個考機會馬上召開了三小時然後說喔好他要宣布他記兩個大過免職這是嚴重的違反行政瑕疵更慘的是最後這位分署長的律師信就出來了他的律師信是告訴大家說根據我們勞動部的調查報告啊他沒有"},{"start":322.978,"end":323.018,"text":"陳菁徽"},{"start":353.262,"end":356.855,"text":"10月28號您應該就會有疾管署的初步報告出來了"},{"start":359.715,"end":384.905,"text":"謝謝委員的指教我非常清楚我再重申我們不容許有任何職場的霸凌所以只要有任何相關的信息我們一定嚴加調查嚴加辦理我想這是那個一定這是最大的原則而且所有相關的部門如果是那個部門像機關署我們要求最快的適度那後續所以你的考機會"},{"start":386.246,"end":386.286,"text":"陳秦涵"},{"start":404.915,"end":433.761,"text":"這是近期內許多人民關心的議題因為石署長因為邱部長曾經在之前新聞的採訪說到兩年是部長建保費要用三支箭拼改革但是石署長在最近又公開的說在研擬補充保費的三項調整與一般保費來做溝通並且說針對六大類比如說許許多多很辛苦在爭取獎金的這些壽星階級他要分別制定"},{"start":434.221,"end":434.321,"text":"陳菁徽"},{"start":458.138,"end":483.297,"text":"建保經費提到三成八等等還有許多公務預算都應該由建保支付的項目盡快處理可以給大家一個進程嗎?為什麼會有這樣子不同調的出現?我想沒有不同調所謂的不轉保惠就是我們那個惠利一般保惠啦一般保惠因為這個比較影響層面比較大那至於調整"},{"start":484.498,"end":502.576,"text":"補充保費這件事情一直都是我們的策略之一那現在健保署提出一個很可是調整補充保費您要修健保法所以您是意思是說你要左手開始修健保法嗎我們現在都演你我是不是請署署長報告一下"},{"start":502.976,"end":518.745,"text":"跟委員報告因為目前健保法的規定那麼補充保費的調漲是跟隨一般保費的費率調動的他是連動而且在補充保費裡面有6項的補充保費費率一樣那這個確實你要把它6項分不同的費率"},{"start":518.885,"end":520.785,"text":"您是預計什麼時候要開始著手修這個健保法?"},{"start":544.051,"end":559.405,"text":"目前內部都已經在研議這個修法的方向那到一個階段會再跟外界做溝通之後再進入到修法的所以你的意思是說等你們調整完以後大概也就是部長講的兩年內啦所以大概是兩年後啊也需要一點時間"},{"start":560.646,"end":577.399,"text":"那我們會再繼續跟你一起研擬這件事情那最後一題最後一題是想問說邱部長今天你有列在公務預算中用醫政業務這個執行的韌性國家醫療整備計畫看起來是114年編列了17.52"},{"start":579.821,"end":608.5,"text":"總數其實是4年啊他是從113年連續4年總數是76.6億那我們不管是透過電話詢問或是詢問主計總處等等的都說是不能公開的一個機密那如果是機密的話我也想請您稍微講一下是你們採購合約的機密還是機密的預算還是涉及機密的事項因為我們對於你這個任性國家醫療準備計畫是一無所知"},{"start":614.964,"end":637.439,"text":"這個任性醫療國家的計畫其實是主要是針對大型或特殊災難事件的時候我們重新檢視過我們自己的應變的量能從921之後其實剛開始是天然災害可是隨著極端氣候然後甚至是說我們看到的那個天然災害也變得嚴峻加劇了所以在這個地方上面做一個"},{"start":638.359,"end":653.828,"text":"您說天然災害但是你很快的113就開始招標你在招標的上面是寫因應複合式災難還有全球軌跡多變的局勢未來台海衝突事件以及不可預期的災難災害必須加強戰場的災難醫療整備這個是你們招標的對於這個計畫講的"},{"start":662.653,"end":683.228,"text":"對 因為就是說所有的應變裡面其實這幾個都是我們過去比較沒有經驗的所以您的意思是說在113 114之前您覺得我們國家醫療韌性對於戰爭的支撐比較短那經過這個計畫你們想要再把它拉長讓我們韌性再更久一點"},{"start":684.008,"end":695.282,"text":"不是是我們所有對創傷這一塊的處理的量能然後跟經驗其實相對上面都需要做提升所以才會是說這個我們寫的是一個最嚴重的可能會是戰爭可是對於就是說我們看到了極端氣候產生的包括了"},{"start":703.491,"end":703.651,"text":"陳菁徽"},{"start":733.711,"end":748.88,"text":"他們還是把它一項一項的寫出來了對 所以環境部那邊的話其實是透過最近其實像COP29就在講的是氣候調節的這一塊增加體系的韌性不是不是 他們內容其實也跟你們差不多"},{"start":749.9,"end":750.101,"text":"陳菁徽"},{"start":764.718,"end":764.878,"text":"委員指教"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":308,"blocks":[["陳委員菁徽：（9時52分）主席、各位官員，請邱部長。"],["邱部長泰源：委員好。"],["陳委員菁徽：部長，昨天我在財政委員會，其實下午在Threads上面就發出這篇文章，說除了勞動部昨天是矚目的焦點以外，也有疾管署的同仁上網陳情，當時您說調查報告大概兩個月會出來，但昨天晚上行政院院長道歉，並且規定大家要一週內完成調查報告之後，在很晚的時候疾管署又重新發了一個新聞稿，說一週內會完成。","在這邊也想跟部長說，其實勞動部最為人詬病的就是，第一，它的調查小組不夠公正、不夠超然，裡面很多是自己人，所以最後很多調查報告不管是在其他的單位或是在勞動部都不了了之，變成一個悶燒的壓力鍋，導致於有不幸的輕生事件。所以你有沒有辦法在這邊承諾，因為不瞞您說，昨天下午回去，有人就打匿名電話進來，又有寫簡訊的，等一下會給你一封信的正本，我們都會一一查證，也希望您可以審慎地處理，你可以在這邊承諾，要不要請外部的人或是以公正超然的立場來成立所有衛福部相關的調查小組？"],["邱部長泰源：好，我想我們一定按照規定來處理，因為大家關注，所以我們把兩個月的時程縮成一個禮拜要來完成，這裡面相當的詳細，是不是請疾管署莊署長來報告一下？"],["莊署長人祥：報告委員，本來規定是兩個月內，因為要做非常多的事情，比如說我們要延攬外部的委員，還有進行匿名的問卷調查，根據調查結果我們還要去選取面談的對象進行面談跟寫報告，所以我們是用比較寬裕的時間，希望能夠把它完成，因為……"],["陳委員菁徽：你們有選外部的人來嗎？"],["莊署長人祥：有，已經有兩位，一位是法律，一位是心理諮商。"],["陳委員菁徽：你們還有選疾管署內部的人嗎？"],["莊署長人祥：內部的人我們也都儘量選原來業務跟那個組長比較不熟的人。"],["陳委員菁徽：我接下來就要告訴您第二件事情，昨天下午我們有接到電話打進來陳情說，請我們辦公室要相信Threads上面的留言，因為他就是在疾管署其他單位工作的同仁，他是親眼看著這個組長曾經對著同仁罵豬啊等等的。再來，昨天晚上好晚的時候又接到一封陳情信，它是在說，疾管署所有同仁挺過新冠的疫情，守護國人的生命，但誰來守護我們的生命，是不是要在林森南路辦公室那一棟大樓發現有人吊死，才能引起政府重視公務職場的霸凌？他說，不只是這個組長，上行下效酷吏整備組組長是聯合底下的科長、簡技集體霸凌壓榨同仁，比如逼得大家不得不離職、調職、降調、退休，甚至請育嬰假等等來逃離現場，不管是工作負荷量大、身兼數職、人力嚴重不足、流動率過高、辱罵同仁能力差、逼迫同仁的產能，但是主管，就這三個人是集體網購、打屁、聊是非、爽休假出國、下班時間一到就走人，可是同仁工作多卻不能報加班，案子無解，業務永遠做不完，難休假，身心俱疲，整備組的主管是如此，其他的組室呢？除了這個比較具體的信，等一下我會交給部長來幫他們陳情，其實陸陸續續一直有email進來、簡訊進來等等的。"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝委員的關……"],["陳委員菁徽：剛剛提到調查小組一定要公開透明。再來，昨天其實勞動部違反了一個很大的行政瑕疵，中午的時候在這邊告訴我們說，他要把分署長免職。後來想一想又說，可是他沒有這個權限，必須要先召開懲戒委員會、要召開考績會，他才有辦法。結果搞了一個小時才說，他沒有這個權限。後來院長出來道歉了以後，晚上他又開始召開考績會，馬上召開了3小時，然後說：好，他要宣布他記兩個大過，免職。這嚴重地違反行政瑕疵，更慘的是，最後這位分署長的律師信就出來了，他的律師信告訴大家，根據勞動部的調查報告，他沒有直接霸凌的事實，但他有霸凌這位不幸往生者的主管，然後最後他的律師居然是用勞動部的報告來幫他辯護耶！所以這一點我也希望你之後在處理衛福部的時候可以借鏡勞動部，千萬要公正超然。第二，不能有任何的行政瑕疵，好嗎？你有沒有什麼方向可以告訴我們說，一週的調查報告出來以後，你大概多久會召開考績會？因為算一算，11月28日應該疾管署的初步報告就會出來了。"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝委員的指教，我非常清楚，我再重申，我們不容許有任何職場的霸凌，所以只要有任何相關的訊息，我們一定會調查、嚴加辦理，我想這是最大的原則，而且所有相關的部門，像疾管署，我們要求最快的速度，後續……"],["陳委員菁徽：所以你的考績會……"],["莊署長人祥：我們預定下個禮拜四會有報告，我們會儘量在當天看可不可以就開考績會。"],["陳委員菁徽：好，今天也請您參考一下這個陳情函，因為不只是組長一個人。","下一個想要請石署長，這是近期內許多人民關心的議題，因為邱部長之前曾經在新聞的採訪說到，兩年不漲健保費，要用三支箭拚改革。但是石署長在最近又公開地說，在研擬補充保費的三項調整，與一般保費脫鉤，並且說針對六大類，比如說，許許多多很辛苦在爭取獎金的受薪階級，他要分別制定不同的費率計算方案。我想要知道說，是不是兩位有一點不同調？因為很多人民開始擔心，本來部長說兩年不調漲健保費率，不會漲保費，但現在署長出來卻說，可能會往這個方面去研擬。你之前的三支箭說要增加政府的預算，把三成六的健保經費提到三成八等等，還有許多公務預算都應該由健保支付的項目儘快處理。可以給大家一個進程嗎？為什麼會有這樣子不同調的情況出現？"],["邱部長泰源：報告委員，沒有不同調，我所謂的不漲保費就是指一般保費，因為這個影響層面比較大。至於調整補充保費這件事情，一直都是我們的策略之一，現在健保署提出一個……"],["陳委員菁徽：可是調整補充保費，你就要修健保法，所以你的意思是，你要著手開始修健保法嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：我們現在都研擬……我是不是請石署長報告一下？"],["石署長崇良：跟委員報告，因為目前健保法的規定，補充保費的調漲是跟隨一般保費的費率調動，它是連動的，而且在補充保費裡面有六項補充保費的費率一樣，這個確實……"],["陳委員菁徽：你要把它六項分不同的費率調整？"],["石署長崇良：對，所以我們現在在研議是不是應該要脫鉤處理，因為這六項補充保費的本質還是有差異，有些是比較偏向資本利得，有些是勞務所得，目前是都綁在一起的，同時它的調動也要跟著一般保費費率調整的時候才能夠調整，所以這個我們是希望……"],["陳委員菁徽：所以你是預計什麼時候要開始著手修健保法？"],["石署長崇良：目前內部都已經在研議修法的方向，到一個階段跟外界溝通之後，會再進到修法的程序。"],["陳委員菁徽：所以你的意思是，等你們調整完以後，大概也就是部長講的兩年內，所以大概是兩年後，是嗎？"],["石署長崇良：也需要一點時間。"],["陳委員菁徽：我們會再繼續跟你一起研擬這件事情。"],["邱部長泰源：好，謝謝。"],["陳委員菁徽：最後一題想問邱部長，今天你有列在公務預算中，用醫政業務這個執行的韌性國家醫療整備計畫，看起來114年是編列了17.52，但總數其實是4年，它是從113年連續4年總數是76.6億。我們不管是透過電話詢問或是詢問主計總處等等的，都說這是不能公開的機密，如果是機密的話，我也想請您稍微講一下，這是你們採購合約的機密，還是機密的預算，還是涉及機密的事項？因為我們對於你這個韌性國家醫療整備計畫是一無所知。"],["邱部長泰源：好，謝謝，我是不是先請醫事司回答一下？"],["劉司長越萍：這個韌性國家醫療計畫其實主要是針對大型或特殊災難事件的時候，我們重新也檢視過我們自己的應變量能，從九二一之後，其實剛開始也是天然災害，可是隨著極端氣候，甚至是我們看到天然災害也變得更加嚴峻、加劇了，所以在這個地方上面做一個強化……"],["陳委員菁徽：沒關係，你說天然災害，但是你很快地113年就開始招標，你在招標的上面是寫，為因應複合式災難及全球詭譎多變的局勢，面對未來臺海衝突事件以及不可預期的災難災害，必須加強戰傷災難醫療整備。這個是你們招標上對於這個計畫所講的。"],["劉司長越萍：對，因為所有的應變裡面，其實這幾個都是我們過去比較沒有經驗的。"],["陳委員菁徽：所以你的意思是，在113年、114年之前，你覺得我們國家醫療韌性對於戰爭的支撐比較短，經過這個計畫，你們想要再把它拉長，讓我們韌性再更久一點。"],["劉司長越萍：不是，是我們所有對於創傷這一塊的處理量能跟經驗，其實相對上面都需要提升，所以我們寫的是一個spectrum，最嚴重的可能會是戰爭，可是對於我們看到極端氣候產生的，包括地震也是有加劇的狀況，這個都是我們創傷部分需要去強化的。然後列為機密的部分，其實是有些訓練，像是戰傷的部分一定就是有一些軍人背景的老師或是退休的老師來協助我們，因為有這一段的部分，所以才會列為機密。"],["陳委員菁徽：因為環境部也有類似的韌性計畫，內容跟你現在講的有點類似，但他們並沒有列成機密，他們還是把它一項一項地寫出來了。"],["劉司長越萍：對，所以環境部那邊的話，其實是透過……最近像COP29講的是氣候調節的這一塊，增加體系的韌性。"],["陳委員菁徽：不是，他們的內容其實也跟你們的差不多。"],["劉司長越萍：差很多，我要講的是，醫療這一邊會產生的是後面我們這邊講的人命救治的問題，而我們跟環境部合作的部分它在講的是，透過像是設備、人員教育訓練的調整之後，對這邊是有認知的，我們所有就是產生創傷後面接的這個部分……"],["陳委員菁徽：之後我們還會再詢問其他委員會他們對於機密的預算，或者是這一筆預算列為機密的必要條件是什麼，然後我們可以再繼續討論，謝謝。"],["劉司長越萍：謝謝委員指教。"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝陳委員，謝謝部長。","接續請王育敏委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":140,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-10","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","林月琴","盧縣一","陳菁徽","王育敏","邱鎮軍","林淑芬","黃秀芳","廖偉翔","黃國昌","賴士葆","邱議瑩","洪孟楷","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","涂權吉","吳春城","羅智強","張雅琳","羅廷瑋","楊瓊瓔","楊曜","王正旭","陳培瑜","劉建國","陳瑩"],"page_start":55,"meetingDate":["2024-11-21"],"gazette_id":"11310501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310501_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查中華民國 114 年度中央政府總預算案關於衛生福利部主管預算（公務預算及基金）（僅詢\n答）","agenda_id":"11310501_00008"}}}