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\",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 848.106, \"end\": 848.206, \"score\": 0.783}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 848.206, \"end\": 849.547, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 849.547, \"end\": 850.468, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"陳\"}, {\"word\": \"培\", \"start\": 850.468, \"end\": 850.588, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"宇\", \"start\": 850.588, \"end\": 850.728, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 850.728, \"end\": 851.768, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 851.768, \"end\": 851.908, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 851.908, \"end\": 852.229, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 852.229, \"end\": 852.449, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 852.449, \"end\": 852.929, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"林\", \"start\": 852.929, \"end\": 853.089, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 853.089, \"end\": 853.509, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"錦\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 853.509, \"end\": 853.529, \"score\": 0.081}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,456 --> 00:00:05,878\n好,謝謝主席,有請部長,謝謝。好,我們有請李部長。參議員你好。好,部長早安,我們來談一下關於AI這個議題,那在國科會他們已經提出AI相關辦法的草案,但是我想要跟部長說,在我們相關法規範出爐之前,其實在業界已經產生了很多問題,如同剛剛葛如君委員說的,所有的文化工作者,\n\n2\n00:00:31,434 --> 00:00:58,053\n他們的主管機關如果是文化部我想文化部應該要更有角度來看這個事情我們來看一下一些案例已經發生在日本的狀況第一個日本有名的聲優他們組成了一個團隊NoMore三字生成AI因為他們的聲音被放入語言模型當中訓練然後用這個聲音再產出新的內容對於這些聲優的粉絲們來說可能沒有辦法第一時間搞清楚到底這個聲音是真的聲優所發出來的還是透過AI合成\n\n3\n00:01:01,415 --> 00:01:13,507\n厲幽們說聲音就是我們的維生工具也是深幽的人生寫照認為日本的政府必須有相關的態度相關的科技業者也必須要有態度我們來看下一個在動畫裡面呢一樣九萬張當中AI所產生的圖\n\n4\n00:01:20,114 --> 00:01:45,442\n他們仔細的比對發現2500張有侵權而這只是比較可以明顯指出還有一些沒有辦法明確指出所以剛剛有聲音現在有圖畫我們來看還有沒有別的呢在文本當中在Amazon的相關的文章當中已經發現有一些作家發現他被出版的新書也就是說部長寧肯的某一天就會在博客來上看到\n\n5\n00:01:45,802 --> 00:01:57,215\n您被出版了一本新書但還可能是AI寫成的這個現象已經在美國發生了有些作家也開始表示他們不想他們的作品被拿來訓用AI來下一個\n\n6\n00:01:58,638 --> 00:02:20,894\n相關的新聞一樣有類似的問題有AI侵權的訴訟WSJ母公司跟紐約時報紐約郵報作者一個訴訟那他們是說AI模型用了他們的新聞去回答用戶所提出來的問題再產生出新的內容但是他們在用這些新聞其實是受到版權保護的但是AI產業依然沒有回應好下一張\n\n7\n00:02:22,379 --> 00:02:41,479\n我想問部長,部長我剛舉了這麼多的例子,你自己怎麼看待這件事情?因為我們現在是AI創新內閣,但我認為文化部在這件事情上目前為止從剛剛業務報告裡面我整本都看完了,我其實也沒有看到文化部在這件事情上看起來有做任何的動作或是有任何的研究機制。我想問部長你這邊怎麼看?\n\n8\n00:02:44,042 --> 00:03:08,333\n其實我們有在做我們最近收集那個歐盟、美國、日本、韓國法令在今年9月已經完成一個那個完成一個指引然後在12月會辦市場閉門式的焦點座談向文化業者學者跟他們以他們的意見來修正預定在2025年的4月完成指引修正稿\n\n9\n00:03:09,053 --> 00:03:21,230\nproportingtotheimplementationoftheimplementationoftheimplementationoftheimplementationofthe\n\n10\n00:03:25,336 --> 00:03:38,222\nproportingtothenextquestion,ifwenowstarttorefertotheEuropeanUnion,theUnitedStates,andJapan,basicallythesethree\n\n11\n00:04:10,553 --> 00:04:36,568\n我們非常期待看到後續的會議所以我這邊的協助我這邊的建議就是相關的AI內容我認為文化部必須要積極的協助相關文化產業業者所有的工作那當然對於有侵權的可能性我認為你們還必須要跟跨部會那因為剛剛部長已經說要召開會議了所以我們非常期待看到後續的發展好我們來看下一個關於小公事的部分這邊是不是可以請公共電視胡董事長謝謝\n\n12\n00:04:38,029 --> 00:04:38,049\n請互動。\n\n13\n00:04:44,738 --> 00:05:11,479\n董事長早安委員好好老師早去年使部長要說成立小公視我們非常期待我們希望看到小公視我們可以讓台灣自己的兒少節目支持率提高那在提高節目的同時也增加節目的品質同時讓產業真的有人才培育可以因此而產生所以大家非常期待立法院在預算上也相當的支持可是董事長我想跟你討論我們看到的一些問題因為在你們的新聞稿說\n\n14\n00:05:12,620 --> 00:05:41,257\n您從分主任他說希望藉由這一次增加預算跟成立小公司的機會把過去幾年沒有做到的事情一起做好包含我剛剛說的資金的部分然後製作水準的部分還有人才培育的部分如果這是大家共同的期待我們來看一下目前呢小公司所開出來這個標案的規格裡面一檔節目他們所拿到的成本小公司的要求是相關的團隊除了製作節目之外有人事費用這些我已經列出來了\n\n15\n00:05:41,817 --> 00:06:07,585\n他們還要自己做粉絲專業的行銷,IG、TREI、FB,更不要講可能還有YouTube短影音。還有相關的製作費會有不僅場地主題曲版權的問題,甚至節目的IP會被公視拿走。但是我知道有個團隊因為自己反映過後還是留在自己團隊,但是沒有反映的團隊IP就被拿走了。我講了這麼多,要做這麼多事情花這麼多錢,可是我們來看小公視給製作單位多少錢。\n\n16\n00:06:29,662 --> 00:06:37,287\nJudge1科普兒少節目30分鐘一集要做90集,總共2520萬,所以一集是28萬。Judge2新創知識節目26集1040萬,所以一集是40萬。我想要問董事長不管是28萬、40萬還是60萬,你覺得回到我剛剛前面那兩頁,來麻煩幫我回到前面那兩頁。\n\n17\n00:06:50,336 --> 00:06:50,476\n閱讀片段\n\n18\n00:07:05,939 --> 00:07:08,021\nadequatebudgetforthenewprogram.\n\n19\n00:07:27,795 --> 00:07:28,395\n為什麼我這麼說?來看一下下一頁\n\n20\n00:07:55,638 --> 00:08:16,825\nbicy在2017就意識到需要更多的經費在製作英國本地的小孩要看的節目那他們的預算我們當然沒有辦法比可是我要問的是當時立法院支持小公視的預算並不是要給小公視做更多的promote或是增加更多的人力或者是我們擔心過往公視人力的問題再次在小公視產生所以我們大力支持\n\n21\n00:08:17,205 --> 00:08:34,796\n但是我現在光是從節目製作預算我就看到很多的問題我認為對於台灣的本土產業人才培育非常不利我覺得我們在用30年前的預算但是想像這一群人要為整個國家整個小公司賣命做出BBC等級的節目這樣合理嗎董事長\n\n22\n00:08:36,882 --> 00:08:55,380\n謝謝委員的關心因為細節當然我不是很了解不過就我原則性的政策可以跟委員做個說明基本上我們好像在整個兒少節目的預算分配上有的節目預算分配的比較高有的節目預算分配的比較一般那主要的考慮是希望發展不同類型的\n\n23\n00:08:55,720 --> 00:09:00,343\n這個我完全認同所以我剛剛舉了四檔不同的節目我並不想把所有節目列出來做比較因為每一個製作單位都有各自其專長跟熱情但我們不希望連這些要幫我們台灣的小孩做節目的人還要賣肝賣熱情賣愛但是是國家對不起他們甚至他們也不想再投入相關產業或者是這樣的預算可能只能拐騙到某一些自己以為可以做兒少節目的人然後拿著兒少兩個字就來騙這個預算\n\n24\n00:09:23,195 --> 00:09:45,158\n我不希望下一次立法院在談小公司的預算的時候我們看到的是那樣的節目所以我要拜託董事長我們當然沒有辦法針對每一檔節目但是我認為我們應該要積極盤點因為已經做這麼多節目出來在年度預算我們也都看見了我們真的看到小公司很努力但是會不會連小公司裡面自己的行政人力資源其實也不足\n\n25\n00:09:46,161 --> 00:09:46,181\n閱讀委員\n\n26\n00:10:01,101 --> 00:10:04,423\nadequatetopublictelevisionandpublictelevision.\n\n27\n00:10:17,470 --> 00:10:37,332\n閱讀者、專家、學者給予更多的建議或是請聽來自產業的聲音知道到底現在發生了什麼事情我認為你們就應該要更積極召開會議協助有熱情有愛想要投入節目的製作單位同時也協助小公視裡面所有的行政人員大家可以坐下來好好一起完成這個節目好嗎\n\n28\n00:10:38,914 --> 00:10:48,514\n跟委員報告,我們今天下午其實就是廣開一個諮詢會議,會邀請各界的人士,我相信這些問題我們都會願意好好來討論。那這個相關的會議紀錄可以再提供給我們辦公室嗎?\n\n29\n00:10:49,634 --> 00:11:11,822\n我想我們這些會議就都會公開的,沒問題。好,謝謝。那我們到時候再請提供給我們辦公室喔。好,最後一題,謝謝。要請部長,那董事長,謝謝。部長,我想要跟你們說一下,在文化部的所有業務裡面都會針對兒少設計很多政策跟資源喔。我們來看一下,從管所的使用開始,從閱讀的推廣到文化幣,到劇場,我知道\n\n30\n00:11:12,202 --> 00:11:15,083\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化機構作業基金附屬單位預算案。\n\n31\n00:11:35,252 --> 00:11:56,681\n當時就有人問文化部說故宮在2019年徵選過青年代表文化部有沒有考慮同樣在美術館博物館等機關有類似的模式。當時還有人說環保署成立青年跟諮詢小組文化部要不要來跟進。當時的文化部次長蕭忠煌也就是現在故宮的院長他說可以來思考這是2021年。\n\n32\n00:11:58,081 --> 00:12:17,910\n那直到現在2024年我們來看一下其實行政院早就頒布中央主管機關推動而少參與國家法治跟決策過程建議做法所以文化部你們其實是有相關指引可以做的那我不知道為什麼遲遲到現在我們都看不到文化部有更積極在這件事情上推進可是如果文化部狹下有這麼多的業務包含我們剛談的小公視、文化幣、閱讀推廣還有文策院想要投資的節目\n\n33\n00:12:23,232 --> 00:12:51,198\n每一個部門的業務都有兒少的角色在裡面為什麼我們可以沒有兒少諮詢代表?好謝謝委員問的問題我們在2024年有一個文化平權推動會報裡面透過衛福部的邀請有兩位兒少代表這個這個會報推動完之後我想我們下一步就開始會朝著您剛才講這個事實上我們雖然沒有這樣一個諮詢機制但是我們做的每件事情都會透過兒少\n\n34\n00:12:52,578 --> 00:13:14,801\nadequate跟兒童面對面,譬如說國家...部長,我們要說實話,所有,包含您要推動的繪本獎勵1800萬這件事情,我都很好奇,我知道你們有召開宣刊專家會議,我就以我最熟悉的繪本來說,如果我們有兒少機制,兒少諮詢委員會,你去問問現在的小孩想看的書跟大人想買的書根本就是兩件事情,所有博客來上暢銷排行榜\n\n35\n00:13:15,782 --> 00:13:16,463\nadequateto60分。\n\n36\n00:13:45,894 --> 00:14:13,529\n如果我們所有的部會都必須要面對兒少,我認為文化部應該要更積極地組成兒少相關代表會議。那你們絕對有機制可以做,我這邊已經提供給你們了。請告訴我你們多久以內可以完成相關的規劃報告?三個月。好,三個月。那我們就期待看到更積極的做法,不要再只是透過衛福部、兒少資料庫,好嗎?好,謝謝部長,謝謝主席。好,謝謝陳培宇委員。接下來我們有請林一錦委員質詢。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3456\t5878\t好,謝謝主席,有請部長,謝謝。好,我們有請李部長。參議員你好。好,部長早安,我們來談一下關於AI這個議題,那在國科會他們已經提出AI相關辦法的草案,但是我想要跟部長說,在我們相關法規範出爐之前,其實在業界已經產生了很多問題,如同剛剛葛如君委員說的,所有的文化工作者,\n31434\t58053\t他們的主管機關如果是文化部我想文化部應該要更有角度來看這個事情我們來看一下一些案例已經發生在日本的狀況第一個日本有名的聲優他們組成了一個團隊NoMore三字生成AI因為他們的聲音被放入語言模型當中訓練然後用這個聲音再產出新的內容對於這些聲優的粉絲們來說可能沒有辦法第一時間搞清楚到底這個聲音是真的聲優所發出來的還是透過AI合成\n61415\t73507\t厲幽們說聲音就是我們的維生工具也是深幽的人生寫照認為日本的政府必須有相關的態度相關的科技業者也必須要有態度我們來看下一個在動畫裡面呢一樣九萬張當中AI所產生的圖\n80114\t105442\t他們仔細的比對發現2500張有侵權而這只是比較可以明顯指出還有一些沒有辦法明確指出所以剛剛有聲音現在有圖畫我們來看還有沒有別的呢在文本當中在Amazon的相關的文章當中已經發現有一些作家發現他被出版的新書也就是說部長寧肯的某一天就會在博客來上看到\n105802\t117215\t您被出版了一本新書但還可能是AI寫成的這個現象已經在美國發生了有些作家也開始表示他們不想他們的作品被拿來訓用AI來下一個\n118638\t140894\t相關的新聞一樣有類似的問題有AI侵權的訴訟WSJ母公司跟紐約時報紐約郵報作者一個訴訟那他們是說AI模型用了他們的新聞去回答用戶所提出來的問題再產生出新的內容但是他們在用這些新聞其實是受到版權保護的但是AI產業依然沒有回應好下一張\n142379\t161479\t我想問部長,部長我剛舉了這麼多的例子,你自己怎麼看待這件事情?因為我們現在是AI創新內閣,但我認為文化部在這件事情上目前為止從剛剛業務報告裡面我整本都看完了,我其實也沒有看到文化部在這件事情上看起來有做任何的動作或是有任何的研究機制。我想問部長你這邊怎麼看?\n164042\t188333\t其實我們有在做我們最近收集那個歐盟、美國、日本、韓國法令在今年9月已經完成一個那個完成一個指引然後在12月會辦市場閉門式的焦點座談向文化業者學者跟他們以他們的意見來修正預定在2025年的4月完成指引修正稿\n189053\t201230\tproporting to the implementation of the implementation of the implementation of the implementation of the\n205336\t218222\tproporting to the next question, if we now start to refer to the European Union, the United States, and Japan, basically these three\n223404\t250333\t\n250553\t276568\t我們非常期待看到後續的會議所以我這邊的協助我這邊的建議就是相關的AI內容我認為文化部必須要積極的協助相關文化產業業者所有的工作那當然對於有侵權的可能性我認為你們還必須要跟跨部會那因為剛剛部長已經說要召開會議了所以我們非常期待看到後續的發展好我們來看下一個關於小公事的部分這邊是不是可以請公共電視胡董事長謝謝\n278029\t278049\t請互動。\n284738\t311479\t董事長早安委員好好 老師早去年使部長要說成立小公視我們非常期待我們希望看到小公視我們可以讓台灣自己的兒少節目支持率提高那在提高節目的同時也增加節目的品質同時讓產業真的有人才培育可以因此而產生所以大家非常期待立法院在預算上也相當的支持可是董事長我想跟你討論我們看到的一些問題因為在你們的新聞稿說\n312620\t341257\t您從分主任他說希望藉由這一次增加預算跟成立小公司的機會把過去幾年沒有做到的事情一起做好包含我剛剛說的資金的部分然後製作水準的部分還有人才培育的部分如果這是大家共同的期待我們來看一下目前呢小公司所開出來這個標案的規格裡面一檔節目他們所拿到的成本小公司的要求是相關的團隊除了製作節目之外有人事費用這些我已經列出來了\n341817\t367585\t他們還要自己做粉絲專業的行銷,IG、TREI、FB,更不要講可能還有YouTube短影音。還有相關的製作費會有不僅場地主題曲版權的問題,甚至節目的IP會被公視拿走。但是我知道有個團隊因為自己反映過後還是留在自己團隊,但是沒有反映的團隊IP就被拿走了。我講了這麼多,要做這麼多事情花這麼多錢,可是我們來看小公視給製作單位多少錢。\n369275\t388916\t議員議員議員議員\n389662\t397287\tJudge 1 科普兒少節目30分鐘一集要做90集,總共2520萬,所以一集是28萬。Judge 2 新創知識節目26集1040萬,所以一集是40萬。我想要問董事長不管是28萬、40萬還是60萬,你覺得回到我剛剛前面那兩頁,來麻煩幫我回到前面那兩頁。\n410336\t410476\t閱讀片段\n425939\t428021\tadequate budget for the new program.\n447795\t448395\t為什麼我這麼說?來看一下下一頁\n475638\t496825\tbicy在2017就意識到需要更多的經費在製作英國本地的小孩要看的節目那他們的預算我們當然沒有辦法比可是我要問的是當時立法院支持小公視的預算並不是要給小公視做更多的promote或是增加更多的人力或者是我們擔心過往公視人力的問題再次在小公視產生所以我們大力支持\n497205\t514796\t但是我現在光是從節目製作預算我就看到很多的問題我認為對於台灣的本土產業人才培育非常不利我覺得我們在用30年前的預算但是想像這一群人要為整個國家整個小公司賣命做出BBC等級的節目這樣合理嗎董事長\n516882\t535380\t謝謝委員的關心因為細節當然我不是很了解不過就我原則性的政策可以跟委員做個說明基本上我們好像在整個兒少節目的預算分配上有的節目預算分配的比較高有的節目預算分配的比較一般那主要的考慮是希望發展不同類型的\n535720\t540343\t這個我完全認同所以我剛剛舉了四檔不同的節目我並不想把所有節目列出來做比較因為每一個製作單位都有各自其專長跟熱情但我們不希望連這些要幫我們台灣的小孩做節目的人還要賣肝賣熱情賣愛但是是國家對不起他們甚至他們也不想再投入相關產業或者是這樣的預算可能只能拐騙到某一些自己以為可以做兒少節目的人然後拿著兒少兩個字就來騙這個預算\n563195\t585158\t我不希望下一次立法院在談小公司的預算的時候我們看到的是那樣的節目所以我要拜託董事長我們當然沒有辦法針對每一檔節目但是我認為我們應該要積極盤點因為已經做這麼多節目出來在年度預算我們也都看見了我們真的看到小公司很努力但是會不會連小公司裡面自己的行政人力資源其實也不足\n586161\t586181\t閱讀委員\n601101\t604423\tadequate to public television and public television.\n617470\t637332\t閱讀者、專家、學者給予更多的建議或是請聽來自產業的聲音知道到底現在發生了什麼事情我認為你們就應該要更積極召開會議協助有熱情有愛想要投入節目的製作單位同時也協助小公視裡面所有的行政人員大家可以坐下來好好一起完成這個節目好嗎\n638914\t648514\t跟委員報告,我們今天下午其實就是廣開一個諮詢會議,會邀請各界的人士,我相信這些問題我們都會願意好好來討論。那這個相關的會議紀錄可以再提供給我們辦公室嗎?\n649634\t671822\t我想我們這些會議就都會公開的,沒問題。好,謝謝。那我們到時候再請提供給我們辦公室喔。好,最後一題,謝謝。要請部長,那董事長,謝謝。部長,我想要跟你們說一下,在文化部的所有業務裡面都會針對兒少設計很多政策跟資源喔。我們來看一下,從管所的使用開始,從閱讀的推廣到文化幣,到劇場,我知道\n672202\t675083\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化機構作業基金附屬單位預算案。\n695252\t716681\t當時就有人問文化部說故宮在2019年徵選過青年代表文化部有沒有考慮同樣在美術館博物館等機關有類似的模式。當時還有人說環保署成立青年跟諮詢小組文化部要不要來跟進。當時的文化部次長蕭忠煌也就是現在故宮的院長他說可以來思考這是2021年。\n718081\t737910\t那直到現在2024年我們來看一下其實行政院早就頒布中央主管機關推動而少參與國家法治跟決策過程建議做法所以文化部你們其實是有相關指引可以做的那我不知道為什麼遲遲到現在我們都看不到文化部有更積極在這件事情上推進可是如果文化部狹下有這麼多的業務包含我們剛談的小公視、文化幣、閱讀推廣還有文策院想要投資的節目\n743232\t771198\t每一個部門的業務都有兒少的角色在裡面為什麼我們可以沒有兒少諮詢代表?好 謝謝委員問的問題我們在2024年有一個文化平權推動會報裡面透過衛福部的邀請有兩位兒少代表這個這個會報推動完之後我想我們下一步就開始會朝著您剛才講這個事實上我們雖然沒有這樣一個諮詢機制但是我們做的每件事情都會透過兒少\n772578\t794801\tadequate跟兒童面對面,譬如說國家...部長,我們要說實話,所有,包含您要推動的繪本獎勵1800萬這件事情,我都很好奇,我知道你們有召開宣刊專家會議,我就以我最熟悉的繪本來說,如果我們有兒少機制,兒少諮詢委員會,你去問問現在的小孩想看的書跟大人想買的書根本就是兩件事情,所有博客來上暢銷排行榜\n795782\t796463\tadequate to 60分。\n825894\t853529\t如果我們所有的部會都必須要面對兒少,我認為文化部應該要更積極地組成兒少相關代表會議。那你們絕對有機制可以做,我這邊已經提供給你們了。請告訴我你們多久以內可以完成相關的規劃報告?三個月。好,三個月。那我們就期待看到更積極的做法,不要再只是透過衛福部、兒少資料庫,好嗎?好,謝謝部長,謝謝主席。好,謝謝陳培宇委員。接下來我們有請林一錦委員質詢。\n","txt":"好,謝謝主席,有請部長,謝謝。好,我們有請李部長。參議員你好。好,部長早安,我們來談一下關於AI這個議題,那在國科會他們已經提出AI相關辦法的草案,但是我想要跟部長說,在我們相關法規範出爐之前,其實在業界已經產生了很多問題,如同剛剛葛如君委員說的,所有的文化工作者,\n他們的主管機關如果是文化部我想文化部應該要更有角度來看這個事情我們來看一下一些案例已經發生在日本的狀況第一個日本有名的聲優他們組成了一個團隊NoMore三字生成AI因為他們的聲音被放入語言模型當中訓練然後用這個聲音再產出新的內容對於這些聲優的粉絲們來說可能沒有辦法第一時間搞清楚到底這個聲音是真的聲優所發出來的還是透過AI合成\n厲幽們說聲音就是我們的維生工具也是深幽的人生寫照認為日本的政府必須有相關的態度相關的科技業者也必須要有態度我們來看下一個在動畫裡面呢一樣九萬張當中AI所產生的圖\n他們仔細的比對發現2500張有侵權而這只是比較可以明顯指出還有一些沒有辦法明確指出所以剛剛有聲音現在有圖畫我們來看還有沒有別的呢在文本當中在Amazon的相關的文章當中已經發現有一些作家發現他被出版的新書也就是說部長寧肯的某一天就會在博客來上看到\n您被出版了一本新書但還可能是AI寫成的這個現象已經在美國發生了有些作家也開始表示他們不想他們的作品被拿來訓用AI來下一個\n相關的新聞一樣有類似的問題有AI侵權的訴訟WSJ母公司跟紐約時報紐約郵報作者一個訴訟那他們是說AI模型用了他們的新聞去回答用戶所提出來的問題再產生出新的內容但是他們在用這些新聞其實是受到版權保護的但是AI產業依然沒有回應好下一張\n我想問部長,部長我剛舉了這麼多的例子,你自己怎麼看待這件事情?因為我們現在是AI創新內閣,但我認為文化部在這件事情上目前為止從剛剛業務報告裡面我整本都看完了,我其實也沒有看到文化部在這件事情上看起來有做任何的動作或是有任何的研究機制。我想問部長你這邊怎麼看?\n其實我們有在做我們最近收集那個歐盟、美國、日本、韓國法令在今年9月已經完成一個那個完成一個指引然後在12月會辦市場閉門式的焦點座談向文化業者學者跟他們以他們的意見來修正預定在2025年的4月完成指引修正稿\nproporting to the implementation of the implementation of the implementation of the implementation of the\nproporting to the next question, if we now start to refer to the European Union, the United States, and Japan, basically these three\n\n我們非常期待看到後續的會議所以我這邊的協助我這邊的建議就是相關的AI內容我認為文化部必須要積極的協助相關文化產業業者所有的工作那當然對於有侵權的可能性我認為你們還必須要跟跨部會那因為剛剛部長已經說要召開會議了所以我們非常期待看到後續的發展好我們來看下一個關於小公事的部分這邊是不是可以請公共電視胡董事長謝謝\n請互動。\n董事長早安委員好好 老師早去年使部長要說成立小公視我們非常期待我們希望看到小公視我們可以讓台灣自己的兒少節目支持率提高那在提高節目的同時也增加節目的品質同時讓產業真的有人才培育可以因此而產生所以大家非常期待立法院在預算上也相當的支持可是董事長我想跟你討論我們看到的一些問題因為在你們的新聞稿說\n您從分主任他說希望藉由這一次增加預算跟成立小公司的機會把過去幾年沒有做到的事情一起做好包含我剛剛說的資金的部分然後製作水準的部分還有人才培育的部分如果這是大家共同的期待我們來看一下目前呢小公司所開出來這個標案的規格裡面一檔節目他們所拿到的成本小公司的要求是相關的團隊除了製作節目之外有人事費用這些我已經列出來了\n他們還要自己做粉絲專業的行銷,IG、TREI、FB,更不要講可能還有YouTube短影音。還有相關的製作費會有不僅場地主題曲版權的問題,甚至節目的IP會被公視拿走。但是我知道有個團隊因為自己反映過後還是留在自己團隊,但是沒有反映的團隊IP就被拿走了。我講了這麼多,要做這麼多事情花這麼多錢,可是我們來看小公視給製作單位多少錢。\n議員議員議員議員\nJudge 1 科普兒少節目30分鐘一集要做90集,總共2520萬,所以一集是28萬。Judge 2 新創知識節目26集1040萬,所以一集是40萬。我想要問董事長不管是28萬、40萬還是60萬,你覺得回到我剛剛前面那兩頁,來麻煩幫我回到前面那兩頁。\n閱讀片段\nadequate budget for the new program.\n為什麼我這麼說?來看一下下一頁\nbicy在2017就意識到需要更多的經費在製作英國本地的小孩要看的節目那他們的預算我們當然沒有辦法比可是我要問的是當時立法院支持小公視的預算並不是要給小公視做更多的promote或是增加更多的人力或者是我們擔心過往公視人力的問題再次在小公視產生所以我們大力支持\n但是我現在光是從節目製作預算我就看到很多的問題我認為對於台灣的本土產業人才培育非常不利我覺得我們在用30年前的預算但是想像這一群人要為整個國家整個小公司賣命做出BBC等級的節目這樣合理嗎董事長\n謝謝委員的關心因為細節當然我不是很了解不過就我原則性的政策可以跟委員做個說明基本上我們好像在整個兒少節目的預算分配上有的節目預算分配的比較高有的節目預算分配的比較一般那主要的考慮是希望發展不同類型的\n這個我完全認同所以我剛剛舉了四檔不同的節目我並不想把所有節目列出來做比較因為每一個製作單位都有各自其專長跟熱情但我們不希望連這些要幫我們台灣的小孩做節目的人還要賣肝賣熱情賣愛但是是國家對不起他們甚至他們也不想再投入相關產業或者是這樣的預算可能只能拐騙到某一些自己以為可以做兒少節目的人然後拿著兒少兩個字就來騙這個預算\n我不希望下一次立法院在談小公司的預算的時候我們看到的是那樣的節目所以我要拜託董事長我們當然沒有辦法針對每一檔節目但是我認為我們應該要積極盤點因為已經做這麼多節目出來在年度預算我們也都看見了我們真的看到小公司很努力但是會不會連小公司裡面自己的行政人力資源其實也不足\n閱讀委員\nadequate to public television and public television.\n閱讀者、專家、學者給予更多的建議或是請聽來自產業的聲音知道到底現在發生了什麼事情我認為你們就應該要更積極召開會議協助有熱情有愛想要投入節目的製作單位同時也協助小公視裡面所有的行政人員大家可以坐下來好好一起完成這個節目好嗎\n跟委員報告,我們今天下午其實就是廣開一個諮詢會議,會邀請各界的人士,我相信這些問題我們都會願意好好來討論。那這個相關的會議紀錄可以再提供給我們辦公室嗎?\n我想我們這些會議就都會公開的,沒問題。好,謝謝。那我們到時候再請提供給我們辦公室喔。好,最後一題,謝謝。要請部長,那董事長,謝謝。部長,我想要跟你們說一下,在文化部的所有業務裡面都會針對兒少設計很多政策跟資源喔。我們來看一下,從管所的使用開始,從閱讀的推廣到文化幣,到劇場,我知道\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化機構作業基金附屬單位預算案。\n當時就有人問文化部說故宮在2019年徵選過青年代表文化部有沒有考慮同樣在美術館博物館等機關有類似的模式。當時還有人說環保署成立青年跟諮詢小組文化部要不要來跟進。當時的文化部次長蕭忠煌也就是現在故宮的院長他說可以來思考這是2021年。\n那直到現在2024年我們來看一下其實行政院早就頒布中央主管機關推動而少參與國家法治跟決策過程建議做法所以文化部你們其實是有相關指引可以做的那我不知道為什麼遲遲到現在我們都看不到文化部有更積極在這件事情上推進可是如果文化部狹下有這麼多的業務包含我們剛談的小公視、文化幣、閱讀推廣還有文策院想要投資的節目\n每一個部門的業務都有兒少的角色在裡面為什麼我們可以沒有兒少諮詢代表?好 謝謝委員問的問題我們在2024年有一個文化平權推動會報裡面透過衛福部的邀請有兩位兒少代表這個這個會報推動完之後我想我們下一步就開始會朝著您剛才講這個事實上我們雖然沒有這樣一個諮詢機制但是我們做的每件事情都會透過兒少\nadequate跟兒童面對面,譬如說國家...部長,我們要說實話,所有,包含您要推動的繪本獎勵1800萬這件事情,我都很好奇,我知道你們有召開宣刊專家會議,我就以我最熟悉的繪本來說,如果我們有兒少機制,兒少諮詢委員會,你去問問現在的小孩想看的書跟大人想買的書根本就是兩件事情,所有博客來上暢銷排行榜\nadequate to 60分。\n如果我們所有的部會都必須要面對兒少,我認為文化部應該要更積極地組成兒少相關代表會議。那你們絕對有機制可以做,我這邊已經提供給你們了。請告訴我你們多久以內可以完成相關的規劃報告?三個月。好,三個月。那我們就期待看到更積極的做法,不要再只是透過衛福部、兒少資料庫,好嗎?好,謝謝部長,謝謝主席。好,謝謝陳培宇委員。接下來我們有請林一錦委員質詢。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.456 --> 00:05.878\n好,謝謝主席,有請部長,謝謝。好,我們有請李部長。參議員你好。好,部長早安,我們來談一下關於AI這個議題,那在國科會他們已經提出AI相關辦法的草案,但是我想要跟部長說,在我們相關法規範出爐之前,其實在業界已經產生了很多問題,如同剛剛葛如君委員說的,所有的文化工作者,\n\n00:31.434 --> 00:58.053\n他們的主管機關如果是文化部我想文化部應該要更有角度來看這個事情我們來看一下一些案例已經發生在日本的狀況第一個日本有名的聲優他們組成了一個團隊NoMore三字生成AI因為他們的聲音被放入語言模型當中訓練然後用這個聲音再產出新的內容對於這些聲優的粉絲們來說可能沒有辦法第一時間搞清楚到底這個聲音是真的聲優所發出來的還是透過AI合成\n\n01:01.415 --> 01:13.507\n厲幽們說聲音就是我們的維生工具也是深幽的人生寫照認為日本的政府必須有相關的態度相關的科技業者也必須要有態度我們來看下一個在動畫裡面呢一樣九萬張當中AI所產生的圖\n\n01:20.114 --> 01:45.442\n他們仔細的比對發現2500張有侵權而這只是比較可以明顯指出還有一些沒有辦法明確指出所以剛剛有聲音現在有圖畫我們來看還有沒有別的呢在文本當中在Amazon的相關的文章當中已經發現有一些作家發現他被出版的新書也就是說部長寧肯的某一天就會在博客來上看到\n\n01:45.802 --> 01:57.215\n您被出版了一本新書但還可能是AI寫成的這個現象已經在美國發生了有些作家也開始表示他們不想他們的作品被拿來訓用AI來下一個\n\n01:58.638 --> 02:20.894\n相關的新聞一樣有類似的問題有AI侵權的訴訟WSJ母公司跟紐約時報紐約郵報作者一個訴訟那他們是說AI模型用了他們的新聞去回答用戶所提出來的問題再產生出新的內容但是他們在用這些新聞其實是受到版權保護的但是AI產業依然沒有回應好下一張\n\n02:22.379 --> 02:41.479\n我想問部長,部長我剛舉了這麼多的例子,你自己怎麼看待這件事情?因為我們現在是AI創新內閣,但我認為文化部在這件事情上目前為止從剛剛業務報告裡面我整本都看完了,我其實也沒有看到文化部在這件事情上看起來有做任何的動作或是有任何的研究機制。我想問部長你這邊怎麼看?\n\n02:44.042 --> 03:08.333\n其實我們有在做我們最近收集那個歐盟、美國、日本、韓國法令在今年9月已經完成一個那個完成一個指引然後在12月會辦市場閉門式的焦點座談向文化業者學者跟他們以他們的意見來修正預定在2025年的4月完成指引修正稿\n\n03:09.053 --> 03:21.230\nproportingtotheimplementationoftheimplementationoftheimplementationoftheimplementationofthe\n\n03:25.336 --> 03:38.222\nproportingtothenextquestion,ifwenowstarttorefertotheEuropeanUnion,theUnitedStates,andJapan,basicallythesethree\n\n04:10.553 --> 04:36.568\n我們非常期待看到後續的會議所以我這邊的協助我這邊的建議就是相關的AI內容我認為文化部必須要積極的協助相關文化產業業者所有的工作那當然對於有侵權的可能性我認為你們還必須要跟跨部會那因為剛剛部長已經說要召開會議了所以我們非常期待看到後續的發展好我們來看下一個關於小公事的部分這邊是不是可以請公共電視胡董事長謝謝\n\n04:38.029 --> 04:38.049\n請互動。\n\n04:44.738 --> 05:11.479\n董事長早安委員好好老師早去年使部長要說成立小公視我們非常期待我們希望看到小公視我們可以讓台灣自己的兒少節目支持率提高那在提高節目的同時也增加節目的品質同時讓產業真的有人才培育可以因此而產生所以大家非常期待立法院在預算上也相當的支持可是董事長我想跟你討論我們看到的一些問題因為在你們的新聞稿說\n\n05:12.620 --> 05:41.257\n您從分主任他說希望藉由這一次增加預算跟成立小公司的機會把過去幾年沒有做到的事情一起做好包含我剛剛說的資金的部分然後製作水準的部分還有人才培育的部分如果這是大家共同的期待我們來看一下目前呢小公司所開出來這個標案的規格裡面一檔節目他們所拿到的成本小公司的要求是相關的團隊除了製作節目之外有人事費用這些我已經列出來了\n\n05:41.817 --> 06:07.585\n他們還要自己做粉絲專業的行銷,IG、TREI、FB,更不要講可能還有YouTube短影音。還有相關的製作費會有不僅場地主題曲版權的問題,甚至節目的IP會被公視拿走。但是我知道有個團隊因為自己反映過後還是留在自己團隊,但是沒有反映的團隊IP就被拿走了。我講了這麼多,要做這麼多事情花這麼多錢,可是我們來看小公視給製作單位多少錢。\n\n06:29.662 --> 06:37.287\nJudge1科普兒少節目30分鐘一集要做90集,總共2520萬,所以一集是28萬。Judge2新創知識節目26集1040萬,所以一集是40萬。我想要問董事長不管是28萬、40萬還是60萬,你覺得回到我剛剛前面那兩頁,來麻煩幫我回到前面那兩頁。\n\n06:50.336 --> 06:50.476\n閱讀片段\n\n07:05.939 --> 07:08.021\nadequatebudgetforthenewprogram.\n\n07:27.795 --> 07:28.395\n為什麼我這麼說?來看一下下一頁\n\n07:55.638 --> 08:16.825\nbicy在2017就意識到需要更多的經費在製作英國本地的小孩要看的節目那他們的預算我們當然沒有辦法比可是我要問的是當時立法院支持小公視的預算並不是要給小公視做更多的promote或是增加更多的人力或者是我們擔心過往公視人力的問題再次在小公視產生所以我們大力支持\n\n08:17.205 --> 08:34.796\n但是我現在光是從節目製作預算我就看到很多的問題我認為對於台灣的本土產業人才培育非常不利我覺得我們在用30年前的預算但是想像這一群人要為整個國家整個小公司賣命做出BBC等級的節目這樣合理嗎董事長\n\n08:36.882 --> 08:55.380\n謝謝委員的關心因為細節當然我不是很了解不過就我原則性的政策可以跟委員做個說明基本上我們好像在整個兒少節目的預算分配上有的節目預算分配的比較高有的節目預算分配的比較一般那主要的考慮是希望發展不同類型的\n\n08:55.720 --> 09:00.343\n這個我完全認同所以我剛剛舉了四檔不同的節目我並不想把所有節目列出來做比較因為每一個製作單位都有各自其專長跟熱情但我們不希望連這些要幫我們台灣的小孩做節目的人還要賣肝賣熱情賣愛但是是國家對不起他們甚至他們也不想再投入相關產業或者是這樣的預算可能只能拐騙到某一些自己以為可以做兒少節目的人然後拿著兒少兩個字就來騙這個預算\n\n09:23.195 --> 09:45.158\n我不希望下一次立法院在談小公司的預算的時候我們看到的是那樣的節目所以我要拜託董事長我們當然沒有辦法針對每一檔節目但是我認為我們應該要積極盤點因為已經做這麼多節目出來在年度預算我們也都看見了我們真的看到小公司很努力但是會不會連小公司裡面自己的行政人力資源其實也不足\n\n09:46.161 --> 09:46.181\n閱讀委員\n\n10:01.101 --> 10:04.423\nadequatetopublictelevisionandpublictelevision.\n\n10:17.470 --> 10:37.332\n閱讀者、專家、學者給予更多的建議或是請聽來自產業的聲音知道到底現在發生了什麼事情我認為你們就應該要更積極召開會議協助有熱情有愛想要投入節目的製作單位同時也協助小公視裡面所有的行政人員大家可以坐下來好好一起完成這個節目好嗎\n\n10:38.914 --> 10:48.514\n跟委員報告,我們今天下午其實就是廣開一個諮詢會議,會邀請各界的人士,我相信這些問題我們都會願意好好來討論。那這個相關的會議紀錄可以再提供給我們辦公室嗎?\n\n10:49.634 --> 11:11.822\n我想我們這些會議就都會公開的,沒問題。好,謝謝。那我們到時候再請提供給我們辦公室喔。好,最後一題,謝謝。要請部長,那董事長,謝謝。部長,我想要跟你們說一下,在文化部的所有業務裡面都會針對兒少設計很多政策跟資源喔。我們來看一下,從管所的使用開始,從閱讀的推廣到文化幣,到劇場,我知道\n\n11:12.202 --> 11:15.083\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化機構作業基金附屬單位預算案。\n\n11:35.252 --> 11:56.681\n當時就有人問文化部說故宮在2019年徵選過青年代表文化部有沒有考慮同樣在美術館博物館等機關有類似的模式。當時還有人說環保署成立青年跟諮詢小組文化部要不要來跟進。當時的文化部次長蕭忠煌也就是現在故宮的院長他說可以來思考這是2021年。\n\n11:58.081 --> 12:17.910\n那直到現在2024年我們來看一下其實行政院早就頒布中央主管機關推動而少參與國家法治跟決策過程建議做法所以文化部你們其實是有相關指引可以做的那我不知道為什麼遲遲到現在我們都看不到文化部有更積極在這件事情上推進可是如果文化部狹下有這麼多的業務包含我們剛談的小公視、文化幣、閱讀推廣還有文策院想要投資的節目\n\n12:23.232 --> 12:51.198\n每一個部門的業務都有兒少的角色在裡面為什麼我們可以沒有兒少諮詢代表?好謝謝委員問的問題我們在2024年有一個文化平權推動會報裡面透過衛福部的邀請有兩位兒少代表這個這個會報推動完之後我想我們下一步就開始會朝著您剛才講這個事實上我們雖然沒有這樣一個諮詢機制但是我們做的每件事情都會透過兒少\n\n12:52.578 --> 13:14.801\nadequate跟兒童面對面,譬如說國家...部長,我們要說實話,所有,包含您要推動的繪本獎勵1800萬這件事情,我都很好奇,我知道你們有召開宣刊專家會議,我就以我最熟悉的繪本來說,如果我們有兒少機制,兒少諮詢委員會,你去問問現在的小孩想看的書跟大人想買的書根本就是兩件事情,所有博客來上暢銷排行榜\n\n13:15.782 --> 13:16.463\nadequateto60分。\n\n13:45.894 --> 14:13.529\n如果我們所有的部會都必須要面對兒少,我認為文化部應該要更積極地組成兒少相關代表會議。那你們絕對有機制可以做,我這邊已經提供給你們了。請告訴我你們多久以內可以完成相關的規劃報告?三個月。好,三個月。那我們就期待看到更積極的做法,不要再只是透過衛福部、兒少資料庫,好嗎?好,謝謝部長,謝謝主席。好,謝謝陳培宇委員。接下來我們有請林一錦委員質詢。\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.456,"end":5.878,"text":"好,謝謝主席,有請部長,謝謝。好,我們有請李部長。參議員你好。好,部長早安,我們來談一下關於AI這個議題,那在國科會他們已經提出AI相關辦法的草案,但是我想要跟部長說,在我們相關法規範出爐之前,其實在業界已經產生了很多問題,如同剛剛葛如君委員說的,所有的文化工作者,"},{"start":31.434,"end":58.053,"text":"他們的主管機關如果是文化部我想文化部應該要更有角度來看這個事情我們來看一下一些案例已經發生在日本的狀況第一個日本有名的聲優他們組成了一個團隊NoMore三字生成AI因為他們的聲音被放入語言模型當中訓練然後用這個聲音再產出新的內容對於這些聲優的粉絲們來說可能沒有辦法第一時間搞清楚到底這個聲音是真的聲優所發出來的還是透過AI合成"},{"start":61.415,"end":73.507,"text":"厲幽們說聲音就是我們的維生工具也是深幽的人生寫照認為日本的政府必須有相關的態度相關的科技業者也必須要有態度我們來看下一個在動畫裡面呢一樣九萬張當中AI所產生的圖"},{"start":80.114,"end":105.442,"text":"他們仔細的比對發現2500張有侵權而這只是比較可以明顯指出還有一些沒有辦法明確指出所以剛剛有聲音現在有圖畫我們來看還有沒有別的呢在文本當中在Amazon的相關的文章當中已經發現有一些作家發現他被出版的新書也就是說部長寧肯的某一天就會在博客來上看到"},{"start":105.802,"end":117.215,"text":"您被出版了一本新書但還可能是AI寫成的這個現象已經在美國發生了有些作家也開始表示他們不想他們的作品被拿來訓用AI來下一個"},{"start":118.638,"end":140.894,"text":"相關的新聞一樣有類似的問題有AI侵權的訴訟WSJ母公司跟紐約時報紐約郵報作者一個訴訟那他們是說AI模型用了他們的新聞去回答用戶所提出來的問題再產生出新的內容但是他們在用這些新聞其實是受到版權保護的但是AI產業依然沒有回應好下一張"},{"start":142.379,"end":161.479,"text":"我想問部長,部長我剛舉了這麼多的例子,你自己怎麼看待這件事情?因為我們現在是AI創新內閣,但我認為文化部在這件事情上目前為止從剛剛業務報告裡面我整本都看完了,我其實也沒有看到文化部在這件事情上看起來有做任何的動作或是有任何的研究機制。我想問部長你這邊怎麼看?"},{"start":164.042,"end":188.333,"text":"其實我們有在做我們最近收集那個歐盟、美國、日本、韓國法令在今年9月已經完成一個那個完成一個指引然後在12月會辦市場閉門式的焦點座談向文化業者學者跟他們以他們的意見來修正預定在2025年的4月完成指引修正稿"},{"start":189.053,"end":201.23,"text":" proporting to the implementation of the implementation of the implementation of the implementation of the"},{"start":205.336,"end":218.222,"text":" proporting to the next question, if we now start to refer to the European Union, the United States, and Japan, basically these three"},{"start":223.404,"end":250.333,"text":""},{"start":250.553,"end":276.568,"text":"我們非常期待看到後續的會議所以我這邊的協助我這邊的建議就是相關的AI內容我認為文化部必須要積極的協助相關文化產業業者所有的工作那當然對於有侵權的可能性我認為你們還必須要跟跨部會那因為剛剛部長已經說要召開會議了所以我們非常期待看到後續的發展好我們來看下一個關於小公事的部分這邊是不是可以請公共電視胡董事長謝謝"},{"start":278.029,"end":278.049,"text":"請互動。"},{"start":284.738,"end":311.479,"text":"董事長早安委員好好 老師早去年使部長要說成立小公視我們非常期待我們希望看到小公視我們可以讓台灣自己的兒少節目支持率提高那在提高節目的同時也增加節目的品質同時讓產業真的有人才培育可以因此而產生所以大家非常期待立法院在預算上也相當的支持可是董事長我想跟你討論我們看到的一些問題因為在你們的新聞稿說"},{"start":312.62,"end":341.257,"text":"您從分主任他說希望藉由這一次增加預算跟成立小公司的機會把過去幾年沒有做到的事情一起做好包含我剛剛說的資金的部分然後製作水準的部分還有人才培育的部分如果這是大家共同的期待我們來看一下目前呢小公司所開出來這個標案的規格裡面一檔節目他們所拿到的成本小公司的要求是相關的團隊除了製作節目之外有人事費用這些我已經列出來了"},{"start":341.817,"end":367.585,"text":"他們還要自己做粉絲專業的行銷,IG、TREI、FB,更不要講可能還有YouTube短影音。還有相關的製作費會有不僅場地主題曲版權的問題,甚至節目的IP會被公視拿走。但是我知道有個團隊因為自己反映過後還是留在自己團隊,但是沒有反映的團隊IP就被拿走了。我講了這麼多,要做這麼多事情花這麼多錢,可是我們來看小公視給製作單位多少錢。"},{"start":369.275,"end":388.916,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":389.662,"end":397.287,"text":"Judge 1 科普兒少節目30分鐘一集要做90集,總共2520萬,所以一集是28萬。Judge 2 新創知識節目26集1040萬,所以一集是40萬。我想要問董事長不管是28萬、40萬還是60萬,你覺得回到我剛剛前面那兩頁,來麻煩幫我回到前面那兩頁。"},{"start":410.336,"end":410.476,"text":"閱讀片段"},{"start":425.939,"end":428.021,"text":"adequate budget for the new program."},{"start":447.795,"end":448.395,"text":"為什麼我這麼說?來看一下下一頁"},{"start":475.638,"end":496.825,"text":" bicy在2017就意識到需要更多的經費在製作英國本地的小孩要看的節目那他們的預算我們當然沒有辦法比可是我要問的是當時立法院支持小公視的預算並不是要給小公視做更多的promote或是增加更多的人力或者是我們擔心過往公視人力的問題再次在小公視產生所以我們大力支持"},{"start":497.205,"end":514.796,"text":"但是我現在光是從節目製作預算我就看到很多的問題我認為對於台灣的本土產業人才培育非常不利我覺得我們在用30年前的預算但是想像這一群人要為整個國家整個小公司賣命做出BBC等級的節目這樣合理嗎董事長"},{"start":516.882,"end":535.38,"text":"謝謝委員的關心因為細節當然我不是很了解不過就我原則性的政策可以跟委員做個說明基本上我們好像在整個兒少節目的預算分配上有的節目預算分配的比較高有的節目預算分配的比較一般那主要的考慮是希望發展不同類型的"},{"start":535.72,"end":540.343,"text":"這個我完全認同所以我剛剛舉了四檔不同的節目我並不想把所有節目列出來做比較因為每一個製作單位都有各自其專長跟熱情但我們不希望連這些要幫我們台灣的小孩做節目的人還要賣肝賣熱情賣愛但是是國家對不起他們甚至他們也不想再投入相關產業或者是這樣的預算可能只能拐騙到某一些自己以為可以做兒少節目的人然後拿著兒少兩個字就來騙這個預算"},{"start":563.195,"end":585.158,"text":"我不希望下一次立法院在談小公司的預算的時候我們看到的是那樣的節目所以我要拜託董事長我們當然沒有辦法針對每一檔節目但是我認為我們應該要積極盤點因為已經做這麼多節目出來在年度預算我們也都看見了我們真的看到小公司很努力但是會不會連小公司裡面自己的行政人力資源其實也不足"},{"start":586.161,"end":586.181,"text":"閱讀委員"},{"start":601.101,"end":604.423,"text":"adequate to public television and public television."},{"start":617.47,"end":637.332,"text":"閱讀者、專家、學者給予更多的建議或是請聽來自產業的聲音知道到底現在發生了什麼事情我認為你們就應該要更積極召開會議協助有熱情有愛想要投入節目的製作單位同時也協助小公視裡面所有的行政人員大家可以坐下來好好一起完成這個節目好嗎"},{"start":638.914,"end":648.514,"text":"跟委員報告,我們今天下午其實就是廣開一個諮詢會議,會邀請各界的人士,我相信這些問題我們都會願意好好來討論。那這個相關的會議紀錄可以再提供給我們辦公室嗎?"},{"start":649.634,"end":671.822,"text":"我想我們這些會議就都會公開的,沒問題。好,謝謝。那我們到時候再請提供給我們辦公室喔。好,最後一題,謝謝。要請部長,那董事長,謝謝。部長,我想要跟你們說一下,在文化部的所有業務裡面都會針對兒少設計很多政策跟資源喔。我們來看一下,從管所的使用開始,從閱讀的推廣到文化幣,到劇場,我知道"},{"start":672.202,"end":675.083,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化機構作業基金附屬單位預算案。"},{"start":695.252,"end":716.681,"text":"當時就有人問文化部說故宮在2019年徵選過青年代表文化部有沒有考慮同樣在美術館博物館等機關有類似的模式。當時還有人說環保署成立青年跟諮詢小組文化部要不要來跟進。當時的文化部次長蕭忠煌也就是現在故宮的院長他說可以來思考這是2021年。"},{"start":718.081,"end":737.91,"text":"那直到現在2024年我們來看一下其實行政院早就頒布中央主管機關推動而少參與國家法治跟決策過程建議做法所以文化部你們其實是有相關指引可以做的那我不知道為什麼遲遲到現在我們都看不到文化部有更積極在這件事情上推進可是如果文化部狹下有這麼多的業務包含我們剛談的小公視、文化幣、閱讀推廣還有文策院想要投資的節目"},{"start":743.232,"end":771.198,"text":"每一個部門的業務都有兒少的角色在裡面為什麼我們可以沒有兒少諮詢代表?好 謝謝委員問的問題我們在2024年有一個文化平權推動會報裡面透過衛福部的邀請有兩位兒少代表這個這個會報推動完之後我想我們下一步就開始會朝著您剛才講這個事實上我們雖然沒有這樣一個諮詢機制但是我們做的每件事情都會透過兒少"},{"start":772.578,"end":794.801,"text":"adequate跟兒童面對面,譬如說國家...部長,我們要說實話,所有,包含您要推動的繪本獎勵1800萬這件事情,我都很好奇,我知道你們有召開宣刊專家會議,我就以我最熟悉的繪本來說,如果我們有兒少機制,兒少諮詢委員會,你去問問現在的小孩想看的書跟大人想買的書根本就是兩件事情,所有博客來上暢銷排行榜"},{"start":795.782,"end":796.463,"text":"adequate to 60分。"},{"start":825.894,"end":853.529,"text":"如果我們所有的部會都必須要面對兒少,我認為文化部應該要更積極地組成兒少相關代表會議。那你們絕對有機制可以做,我這邊已經提供給你們了。請告訴我你們多久以內可以完成相關的規劃報告?三個月。好,三個月。那我們就期待看到更積極的做法,不要再只是透過衛福部、兒少資料庫,好嗎?好,謝謝部長,謝謝主席。好,謝謝陳培宇委員。接下來我們有請林一錦委員質詢。"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":544,"blocks":[["陳委員培瑜：（10時48分）謝謝主席，有請部長，謝謝。"],["主席：有請李部長。"],["李部長遠：陳委員，你好。"],["陳委員培瑜：部長早安。我們來談一下關於AI這個議題，國科會他們已經提出AI相關辦法的草案，但是我想要跟部長說，在相關法規範出爐之前，其實在業界已經產生了很多問題，如同剛剛葛如鈞委員說的，所有文化工作者的主管機關如果是文化部，我想文化部應該更有角度來看這個事情。","我們來看一下一些案例，這是已經發生在日本的狀況。第一個是日本有名的聲優組成了一個團隊「NOMORE擅自生成AI」，因為他們的聲音被放入語言模型當中訓練，然後用這個聲音再產出新的內容，對於這些聲優的粉絲們來說，可能沒有辦法第一時間搞清楚到底這個聲音是真的聲優所發出來的，還是透過AI合成，聲優們說：聲音就是我們的維生工具，也是聲優們的人生寫照，認為日本政府必須要有相關的態度，相關的科技業者也必須要有態度。","在動畫的部分也一樣，在9萬張圖片當中由AI所產生的圖，他們仔細的比對後發現2,500張有侵權，而這只是比較可以明顯指出的，還有一些沒有辦法明確指出。","剛剛有聲音，現在有圖畫，我們來看還有沒有別的呢？在文本當中，在Amazon的相關文章當中，已經有一些作家發現他被出版了新書，也就是說，部長，您可能某一天就會在博客來上看到您被出版了一本新書，但可能是AI寫成的，這個現象已經在美國發生了，有些作家也開始表示他們不想自己的作品被拿來訓練AI。","相關的新聞一樣有類似的問題，AI侵權的訴訟，WSJ母公司跟紐約郵報有一個訴訟，他們是說AI模型用了他們的新聞去回答用戶所提出來的問題，再產生出新的內容，但是他們在用的這些新聞其實是受到版權保護的，但是AI產業依然沒有回應。","部長，我剛剛舉了這麼多的例子，你自己怎麼看待這件事情？因為我們現在是AI創新內閣，但我認為文化部在這件事情上，目前為止，剛剛的業務報告我整本都看完了，我其實也沒有看到文化部在這件事情上有做任何的動作或是有任何的研究機制，我想問部長，你這邊怎麼看？"],["李部長遠：其實我們有在做，我們最近蒐集歐盟、美國、日本、韓國的法令，在今年9月已經完成一個指引，然後在12月會辦4場閉門式的焦點座談，向文化業者、學者請益，以他們的意見來修正，預定在2025年4月完成指引修正稿，我們也正在研擬一個文化藝術應用生成式AI的規範指引，然後在這個研擬的過程中，跟表演藝術、視覺藝術、編劇、影音、圖文等傳達這些可能的風險。其實，我們本身最近在做一個繪本的徵件，來了900件，我們就開始想到如何去辨識這900件裡面有多少是AI的作品，這個我們自己非常警覺，謝謝委員的提醒。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，部長，根據您剛剛說的，我們現在開始參考歐盟、美國跟日本，但基本上這三個所採用的方向都非常不一致，日本是大開放主義，但是歐盟比較多站在保護跟保守的立場，如果文化部都有作為參考，那我非常期待後續4場閉門座談後相關的指引修正出爐，因為我認為這對臺灣所有的藝文創作者都是一個非常重要的保障，所以我也非常期待你們的4場閉門座談，不要真的是閉門，而是以開放式的心態去邀請產學界，好嗎？好，我們非常期待看到後續的會議。","所以我這邊的建議就是，相關的AI內容，我認為文化部必須要積極地協助相關文化產業業者所有的工作，當然，對於有侵權的可能性，我認為你們還必須要跨部會，因為剛剛部長已經說要召開會議了，所以我們非常期待看到後續的發展。","下一個議題是關於小公視的部分，是不是可以請公共電視胡董事長，謝謝。"],["主席：請胡董。"],["陳委員培瑜：部長，您可以先休息一下，我要請問公共電視的胡董。","董事長，早安。"],["胡董事長元輝：委員好。"],["陳委員培瑜：老師早。去年史部長說要成立小公視，我們非常期待，我們希望看到小公視可以讓臺灣自己的兒少節目自製率提高，在提高節目的同時，也增加節目的品質，同時讓產業真的有人才培育可以因此而產生，所以大家非常期待，立法院在預算上也相當地支持。可是董事長，我想跟你討論我們看到的一些問題，因為在你們的新聞稿看到，林瓊芬主任說，希望藉由這次增加預算跟成立小公視的機會，把過去幾年沒有做到的事情一起做好，包含我剛剛說的資金的部分、製作水準的部分，還有人才培育的部分，如果這是大家共同的期待。","我們來看一下，目前小公視所開出來的標案規格裡一檔節目所拿到的成本，小公視的要求是相關團隊除了製作節目之外，有人事費用等等這些我已經列出來了，他們還要自己做粉絲專業的行銷，IG、Threads、FB，更不要講可能還有YouTube短影音。還有相關的製作費，會有布景、場地、主題曲、版權的問題，甚至節目IP會被公視拿走，但是我知道有個團隊在反映過後還是留在自己團隊，但是沒有反映的團隊的IP就被拿走了。我講了這麼多，要做這麼多事情、花這麼多錢，可是我們來看小公視給製作單位多少錢。","董事長，你看一下，兒童外景節目一集30分鐘，13集780萬，所以一集是60萬；公視兒少IP延續節目，就是古典魔力客，古典魔力客一樣是30分鐘60萬，我先不講這60萬好不好用，我請董事長你自己想一想；科普兒少節目30分鐘一集，要做90集，總共2,520萬，所以一集是28萬；新創知識節目26集1,040萬，所以一集是40萬。我想要問董事長，不管是28萬、40萬還是60萬，你覺得以我剛剛前面那二頁所顯示的費用，這樣真的合理嗎？","我們看整個小公視的預算是6億，6億裡面大概有一半是拿來製作節目，當然你們開出了非常多的節目，有的是延續公共電視過往的節目，包含連我的小孩都很熟悉的冰淇淋，或者是新的節目，你們也開啟了相關的預算，但是我要問，我們問了非常多製作團隊，其實這個預算非常非常的不合理，甚至大家都要動用到自己的人脈資源，大家像是做半志工一樣在貢獻自己的熱情跟專長。","我以古典魔力客來說，那個配音員他叫做焦元溥，他出去外面一場演講是好幾萬塊，他除了要當這個節目的顧問之外，他還要幫那隻貓咪配音，是沒有收錢的，還有各種古典節目知識裡面的know-how，他也都提供了他的熱情，為的就是推廣他們喜愛的古典音樂給這個世代的孩子。但我要問，這樣的節目製作預算真的沒有問題嗎？小公視真的可以用這樣的概念想要做出BBC等級的節目嗎？為什麼我這麼說？請看一下，BBC在2017就意識到需要更多的經費去製作英國本地的小孩要看的節目，他們的預算我們當然沒有辦法比，可是我要問的是，當時立法院支持小公視的預算，並不是要給小公視做更多的promote或是增加更多的人力，或者是我們擔心過往公視人力的問題再次在小公視產生，所以我們大力支持，但是我現在光是從節目製作預算就看到很多的問題，我認為對於臺灣的本土產業人才培育非常不利。我覺得我們在用30年前的預算，但是想像這一群人要為整個國家、整個小公視賣命，做出BBC等級的節目，這樣合理嗎？董事長。"],["胡董事長元輝：謝謝委員的關心，因為細節我不是很了解，不過我就原則性的政策可以跟委員做個說明。基本上，我們好像在整個兒少節目的預算分配上，有的節目預算分配的比較高，有的節目預算分配的比較一般，主要的考慮是希望發展不同類型的節目……"],["陳委員培瑜：這個我完全認同，所以我剛剛舉了四檔不同的節目，我並不想把所有節目列出來做比較，因為每一個製作單位都有各自的專長跟熱情，但我們不希望連這些要幫我們臺灣的小孩做節目的人，還要賣肝、賣熱情、賣愛，這是國家對不起他們，甚至他們也不想再投入相關產業。或者是這樣的預算，可能只能拐騙到某一些自己以為可以做兒少節目的人，然後拿著兒少兩個字就來騙這個預算，我不希望下一次立法院在談小公視預算的時候，我們看到的是那樣的節目。所以我要拜託董事長，我們當然沒有辦法針對每一檔節目，但是我認為我們應該要積極盤點，因為已經做這麼多節目出來，在年度預算我們也都看見了，我們真的看到小公視很努力，但是會不會連小公視裡面自己的行政、人力、資源其實也不足，所以他們在跟外面團隊合作的時候，其實可能也搞不清楚外面團隊現在到底狀況是什麼，也就是說，如果兩端資源都不足，那我們要不要重新來盤點這個預算使用的問題，好嗎？"],["胡董事長元輝：好，謝謝委員。"],["陳委員培瑜：那我就積極的要求，製作兒少節目，我認為文化部跟公共電視都必須要給予更多的支持，所以未來在徵案的時候，開案所編列的預算我認為應該要相對應，可是如果公共電視或小公視自己沒有辦法解決這個問題，必須要透過董事長這樣的專家學者給予更多的建議，或是傾聽來自產業的聲音，知道到底現在發生了什麼事情，我認為你們就應該要更積極召開會議，協助有熱情、有愛，想要投入節目的製作單位，同時也協助小公視裡面所有的行政人員，大家可以坐下來好好一起完成這個節目，好嗎？"],["胡董事長元輝：好，跟委員報告，我們今天下午其實就是廣開一個諮詢會議，會邀請各界人士，我相信這些問題我們都願意好好來討論。"],["陳委員培瑜：這個相關的會議紀錄可以再提供給我們辦公室嗎？"],["胡董事長元輝：我想我們這個會議紀錄都會公開的，沒有問題。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，謝謝，到時候再請提供給我們辦公室。","最後一題要請部長，董事長謝謝。部長，我想要跟你們說一下，在文化部的所有業務裡面，都會針對兒少設計很多政策跟資源，從館所的使用開始、從閱讀的推廣到文化幣、到劇場，我知道部長上任之後，你非常關心兒少，我也非常感謝部長。可是我想要跟部長說，在文化部有這麼多場館，還有這麼多藝文活動的情況下，竟然到現在都沒有兒少諮詢代表的機制？我認為這對文化部來說是相當的諷刺跟荒謬。在2021年全國文化會議的時候，當時就有人問文化部，故宮在2019年徵選過青年代表，文化部有沒有考慮同樣在美術館、博物館等機關有類似的模式？當時還有人說環保署成立青年參與諮詢小組，文化部要不要來跟進？當時的文化部次長蕭宗煌，也就是現在故宮的院長，他說可以來思考，這是2021年。直到現在2024年，其實行政院早就頒布中央主管機關推動兒少參與國家法制跟決策過程建議作法，所以文化部你們其實是有相關指引可以做的，我不知道為什麼遲遲到現在，我們都看不到文化部有更積極在這件事情上推進？可是如果文化部轄下有這麼多的業務，包含我們剛談的小公視、文化幣、閱讀推廣，還有文策院想要投資的節目，每一個部門的業務都有兒少的角色在裡面，為什麼我們可以沒有兒少諮詢代表？"],["李部長遠：謝謝委員問的問題。我們在2024年有一個文化平權推動會報，透過衛福部的邀請，有兩位兒少代表；這個會報推動完之後，我想我們下一步就會開始朝著您剛才講這個方向推進。事實上，我們雖然沒有這樣一個諮詢機制，但是我們做的每件事情都會透過兒少，直接跟兒童面對面，譬如……"],["陳委員培瑜：部長，我們要說實話，所有包含您要推動的繪本獎勵1,800萬這件事情，我都很好奇，我知道你們有召開相關專家會議，我就以我最熟悉的繪本來說，如果我們有兒少機制、兒少諮詢委員會，你去問問現在的小孩想看的書跟大人想買的書，根本就是兩件事情！所有博客來上暢銷排行榜，都是大人想要塞給小孩看的書，出版社也都知道要這樣出，但是小孩想看什麼樣的書？大人不真的清楚！所以我認為每一個部會都不可以這麼有自信，連我長期跟兒童工作，我到此刻為止，我都不敢說我百分之百做的事、說的話，都能夠接近兒少此時此刻的需求，更不要講現在是數位原生時代的小孩。所以我認為你們說你們在2024文化平權會議，透過衛福部邀請兩位兒少代表，我覺得這個作法只有60分！如果所有的部會都必須要面對兒少，我認為文化部應該要更積極地組成兒少相關代表會議，你們絕對有機制可以做，我這邊已經提供給你們了，請告訴我，你們多久以內可以完成相關的規劃報告？"],["李部長遠：三個月。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，三個月。那我們就期待看到更積極的作法，不要再只是透過衛福部兒少資料庫好嗎？"],["李部長遠：好。"],["陳委員培瑜：謝謝部長、謝謝主席。"],["李部長遠：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝陳培瑜委員。","接下來我們有請林宜瑾委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":428,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-9","speakers":["萬美玲","林倩綺","洪孟楷","柯志恩","葉元之","陳秀寳","葛如鈞","陳培瑜","林宜瑾","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","吳春城","范雲","張雅琳","黃國昌","羅智強","羅廷瑋","翁曉玲","吳思瑤","賴惠員","王美惠"],"page_start":359,"meetingDate":["2024-11-21"],"gazette_id":"11310401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310401_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部及所屬單位預算案；二、審查114年度中央政府總\n預算案有關文化部主管國立文化機構作業基金附屬單位預算案；三、審查114年度中央政府總預\n算案有關文化部主管文化發展基金附屬單位預算案；四、審查114年度行政法人國家表演藝術中\n心、文化內容策進院、國家電影及視聽文化中心預算案（僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11310401_00006"}}}