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\"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"喔\", \"start\": 512.338, \"end\": 512.659, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 512.659, \"end\": 512.679, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 512.679, \"end\": 512.719, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 512.719, \"end\": 512.739, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,829 --> 00:00:24,535\n請謝鳳委員謝謝主席我想請我們劉主委請國會劉主委劉主委有驚到嗎?參譜上台你有驚到嗎?\n\n2\n00:00:27,355 --> 00:00:32,161\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分關於行政院基金、離島建設基金、花東地區永續發展\n\n3\n00:00:46,417 --> 00:01:09,845\n在這次選戰所主張的經濟民主主義還要提高關稅對其他地區是10%對中國大陸是60%那對於我剛才看了相關的數字相關的模型的眼裡那當然對於中國的經濟會重創但是你必須要思考有非常多的\n\n4\n00:01:10,811 --> 00:01:11,993\n委員會及所屬單位預算部分\n\n5\n00:01:21,986 --> 00:01:42,733\n三十%的這個出口是對大陸那對大陸以後有可能他們又怎麼樣子又銷售往美國那所以會嚴重的重創臺灣的經濟你講的也許會加速他們回流那但是真的會回流到臺灣嗎\n\n6\n00:01:45,302 --> 00:01:59,987\n所有的台商除了台灣以外在上一次上一次同樣情況川普當選的時候對於香港對於新加坡的經濟是重創比台灣更嚴重的情況\n\n7\n00:02:01,247 --> 00:02:19,793\n那這一次人家會不會已經做好準備了?新加坡會不會已經做好準備了?臺商一定會移往、移回臺灣嗎?他不會移往臺灣以外的東南亞的第三季例如馬來西亞會不會?\n\n8\n00:02:22,408 --> 00:02:49,706\n台商會多元的發展它的新供應鏈那目前來講它會是在目前看起來東南亞是越南跟泰國為主那另外在北美的部分是以這個墨西哥與德州為主那現在也有部分開始移往東歐所以看起來全球化的佈局會更因應這個保守主義的興起會更積極的全球化在台商的運作裡面當然也有部分會到台灣來\n\n9\n00:02:51,570 --> 00:03:16,969\n對還有現在美國他所要做的就是提高他核能提高他核能增加兩倍200預計要增加200GW在這樣子的情況下未來美國還是AI的研發重鎮那台灣呢\n\n10\n00:03:39,585 --> 00:04:05,505\n他們注重的是經濟民主主義會不會退出WTO他會不會如果這樣子臺灣依賴出口ICT半導體所依據的WTO裡面的ITA的相關的協定的租稅免稅協定到時候會不會變成另外一個關稅的障礙會不會\n\n11\n00:04:08,860 --> 00:04:29,942\n如果美國退出的話?如果美國退出當然要看川普的政策但是臺灣的產品多數是零件跟替美國公司組裝再回到美國啦那最大的影響的廠商以目前來看還是以美國廠商受傷會比較重所以我想川普也會深思這個部分\n\n12\n00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:54,726\n因為他在2016年那次他在調整關稅的時候他其實有一個公開閱覽讓民眾來提出來哪些會已經造成通膨影響內部民生所以那些當時是有拿掉所以當時他快速的提高這個稅制的時候並沒有造成民生物資的大幅的改變所以我們也在觀察這一次是不是他也會很理性的處理這件事情\n\n13\n00:04:55,126 --> 00:05:20,419\n所以你認為他退出的就是說退出WTO就是我們還的那個可能性是很低的是不是不能說低啦但是大家會面臨的狀況會一樣但是他如果退出想要再提高稅制他會有內部的一個充分的討論那你是說以上次來看所以還是有這樣子相關的風險性存在是不是是存在的\n\n14\n00:05:21,544 --> 00:05:48,793\n那對於臺灣呢你知道就是說目前臺灣的產業已經面臨了就是K型的高科技的發展的越好傳產的就越來越差在這一次提高關稅美國提高關稅其實有很大的會影響到的就是傳產那對於我們的精密機械我們工具機的影響呢\n\n15\n00:05:50,517 --> 00:06:18,155\n要分開來看如果我們最大競爭對手在對岸的話那對岸會是60%的關稅提升我們是10%那10%因為它是對於中國以外的國家所以是一個齊頭式的拉動所以在比較利益上我們還是有反而相較於中國拉動60%的關稅來看如果我們的競爭對手是對岸的像工具機或者是螺絲扣件業那多少會有比較好的對工具機\n\n16\n00:06:19,861 --> 00:06:31,225\n就是說那怎麼樣子再加大這個力道呢?再加大讓我們就是說因應這個關稅的變化讓我們的傳產能夠在這個期間內能夠急速的上升呢?我有找郭部長討論我們希望開始跟傳產進行座談那我們會加快這個座談跟討論那怎麼樣進行?\n\n17\n00:06:47,237 --> 00:07:13,081\n原則上我們會請工業領袖或是企業領袖大家一起坐下來討論對,因為你沒有創造環境啊你沒有創造這樣子的經濟發展的環境啊我看到了相關的週刊的報導你說你要做的是一個大國發會但是我看到啦過去國發會大國發會是媒體下的標題不是我個人的意見這個我還是要澄清一下\n\n18\n00:07:14,321 --> 00:07:38,508\n不是你個人意見是不是因為我看到的是現在行政院裡面有三個就是經濟發展委員會下面有三個有創新經濟、有均衡台灣、有包容成長結果就把你原本國發會的怎樣一分為三是不是你只是三分之一而已還有其他兩個\n\n19\n00:07:39,548 --> 00:07:39,788\n國發會的功能性已經不如過去?\n\n20\n00:08:00,133 --> 00:08:28,032\n過去在永續會對於淨零碳排現在移到總統府去了對不對那國發會呢國發會現在進行的就是你們相關的基礎建設嗎我們的工作內容還是沒有變因為執行還是要到部會所以我們還在部會上面那上面只是從政策的引導給我們一些指導我們但是在整個執行面還是在部會之間所以我們原來的功能並沒有消失\n\n21\n00:08:29,314 --> 00:08:32,739\n好還是在執行中嘿好謝謝喔好謝謝謝謝委員好\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n829\t24535\t請謝鳳委員謝謝主席我想請我們劉主委請國會劉主委劉主委有驚到嗎?參譜上台你有驚到嗎?\n27355\t32161\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分關於行政院基金、離島建設基金、花東地區永續發展\n46417\t69845\t在這次選戰所主張的經濟民主主義還要提高關稅對其他地區是10%對中國大陸是60%那對於我剛才看了相關的數字相關的模型的眼裡那當然對於中國的經濟會重創但是你必須要思考有非常多的\n70811\t71993\t委員會及所屬單位預算部分\n81986\t102733\t三十%的這個出口是對大陸那對大陸以後有可能他們又怎麼樣子又銷售往美國那所以會嚴重的重創臺灣的經濟你講的也許會加速他們回流那但是真的會回流到臺灣嗎\n105302\t119987\t所有的台商除了台灣以外在上一次上一次同樣情況川普當選的時候對於香港對於新加坡的經濟是重創比台灣更嚴重的情況\n121247\t139793\t那這一次人家會不會已經做好準備了?新加坡會不會已經做好準備了?臺商一定會移往、移回臺灣嗎?他不會移往臺灣以外的東南亞的第三季例如馬來西亞會不會?\n142408\t169706\t台商會多元的發展它的新供應鏈那目前來講它會是在目前看起來東南亞是越南跟泰國為主那另外在北美的部分是以這個墨西哥與德州為主那現在也有部分開始移往東歐所以看起來全球化的佈局會更因應這個保守主義的興起會更積極的全球化在台商的運作裡面當然也有部分會到台灣來\n171570\t196969\t對還有現在美國他所要做的就是提高他核能提高他核能增加兩倍200預計要增加200GW在這樣子的情況下未來美國還是AI的研發重鎮那台灣呢\n198302\t218814\t議員議員議員議員議員\n219585\t245505\t他們注重的是經濟民主主義會不會退出WTO他會不會如果這樣子臺灣依賴出口ICT半導體所依據的WTO裡面的ITA的相關的協定的租稅免稅協定到時候會不會變成另外一個關稅的障礙會不會\n248860\t269942\t如果美國退出的話?如果美國退出當然要看川普的政策但是臺灣的產品多數是零件跟替美國公司組裝再回到美國啦那最大的影響的廠商以目前來看還是以美國廠商受傷會比較重所以我想川普也會深思這個部分\n270720\t294726\t因為他在2016年那次他在調整關稅的時候他其實有一個公開閱覽讓民眾來提出來哪些會已經造成通膨影響內部民生所以那些當時是有拿掉所以當時他快速的提高這個稅制的時候並沒有造成民生物資的大幅的改變所以我們也在觀察這一次是不是他也會很理性的處理這件事情\n295126\t320419\t所以你認為他退出的就是說退出WTO就是我們還的那個可能性是很低的是不是不能說低啦但是大家會面臨的狀況會一樣但是他如果退出想要再提高稅制他會有內部的一個充分的討論那你是說以上次來看所以還是有這樣子相關的風險性存在是不是是存在的\n321544\t348793\t那對於臺灣呢你知道就是說目前臺灣的產業已經面臨了就是K型的高科技的發展的越好傳產的就越來越差在這一次提高關稅美國提高關稅其實有很大的會影響到的就是傳產那對於我們的精密機械我們工具機的影響呢\n350517\t378155\t要分開來看如果我們最大競爭對手在對岸的話那對岸會是60%的關稅提升我們是10%那10%因為它是對於中國以外的國家所以是一個齊頭式的拉動所以在比較利益上我們還是有反而相較於中國拉動60%的關稅來看如果我們的競爭對手是對岸的像工具機或者是螺絲扣件業那多少會有比較好的對工具機\n379861\t391225\t就是說那怎麼樣子再加大這個力道呢?再加大讓我們就是說因應這個關稅的變化讓我們的傳產能夠在這個期間內能夠急速的上升呢?我有找郭部長討論我們希望開始跟傳產進行座談那我們會加快這個座談跟討論那怎麼樣進行?\n407237\t433081\t原則上我們會請工業領袖或是企業領袖大家一起坐下來討論對,因為你沒有創造環境啊你沒有創造這樣子的經濟發展的環境啊我看到了相關的週刊的報導你說你要做的是一個大國發會但是我看到啦過去國發會大國發會是媒體下的標題不是我個人的意見這個我還是要澄清一下\n434321\t458508\t不是你個人意見是不是因為我看到的是現在行政院裡面有三個就是經濟發展委員會下面有三個有創新經濟、有均衡台灣、有包容成長結果就把你原本國發會的怎樣一分為三是不是你只是三分之一而已還有其他兩個\n459548\t459788\t國發會的功能性已經不如過去?\n480133\t508032\t過去在永續會對於淨零碳排現在移到總統府去了對不對那國發會呢國發會現在進行的就是你們相關的基礎建設嗎我們的工作內容還是沒有變因為執行還是要到部會所以我們還在部會上面那上面只是從政策的引導給我們一些指導我們但是在整個執行面還是在部會之間所以我們原來的功能並沒有消失\n509314\t512739\t好還是在執行中嘿好謝謝喔好謝謝謝謝委員好\n","txt":"請謝鳳委員謝謝主席我想請我們劉主委請國會劉主委劉主委有驚到嗎?參譜上台你有驚到嗎?\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分關於行政院基金、離島建設基金、花東地區永續發展\n在這次選戰所主張的經濟民主主義還要提高關稅對其他地區是10%對中國大陸是60%那對於我剛才看了相關的數字相關的模型的眼裡那當然對於中國的經濟會重創但是你必須要思考有非常多的\n委員會及所屬單位預算部分\n三十%的這個出口是對大陸那對大陸以後有可能他們又怎麼樣子又銷售往美國那所以會嚴重的重創臺灣的經濟你講的也許會加速他們回流那但是真的會回流到臺灣嗎\n所有的台商除了台灣以外在上一次上一次同樣情況川普當選的時候對於香港對於新加坡的經濟是重創比台灣更嚴重的情況\n那這一次人家會不會已經做好準備了?新加坡會不會已經做好準備了?臺商一定會移往、移回臺灣嗎?他不會移往臺灣以外的東南亞的第三季例如馬來西亞會不會?\n台商會多元的發展它的新供應鏈那目前來講它會是在目前看起來東南亞是越南跟泰國為主那另外在北美的部分是以這個墨西哥與德州為主那現在也有部分開始移往東歐所以看起來全球化的佈局會更因應這個保守主義的興起會更積極的全球化在台商的運作裡面當然也有部分會到台灣來\n對還有現在美國他所要做的就是提高他核能提高他核能增加兩倍200預計要增加200GW在這樣子的情況下未來美國還是AI的研發重鎮那台灣呢\n議員議員議員議員議員\n他們注重的是經濟民主主義會不會退出WTO他會不會如果這樣子臺灣依賴出口ICT半導體所依據的WTO裡面的ITA的相關的協定的租稅免稅協定到時候會不會變成另外一個關稅的障礙會不會\n如果美國退出的話?如果美國退出當然要看川普的政策但是臺灣的產品多數是零件跟替美國公司組裝再回到美國啦那最大的影響的廠商以目前來看還是以美國廠商受傷會比較重所以我想川普也會深思這個部分\n因為他在2016年那次他在調整關稅的時候他其實有一個公開閱覽讓民眾來提出來哪些會已經造成通膨影響內部民生所以那些當時是有拿掉所以當時他快速的提高這個稅制的時候並沒有造成民生物資的大幅的改變所以我們也在觀察這一次是不是他也會很理性的處理這件事情\n所以你認為他退出的就是說退出WTO就是我們還的那個可能性是很低的是不是不能說低啦但是大家會面臨的狀況會一樣但是他如果退出想要再提高稅制他會有內部的一個充分的討論那你是說以上次來看所以還是有這樣子相關的風險性存在是不是是存在的\n那對於臺灣呢你知道就是說目前臺灣的產業已經面臨了就是K型的高科技的發展的越好傳產的就越來越差在這一次提高關稅美國提高關稅其實有很大的會影響到的就是傳產那對於我們的精密機械我們工具機的影響呢\n要分開來看如果我們最大競爭對手在對岸的話那對岸會是60%的關稅提升我們是10%那10%因為它是對於中國以外的國家所以是一個齊頭式的拉動所以在比較利益上我們還是有反而相較於中國拉動60%的關稅來看如果我們的競爭對手是對岸的像工具機或者是螺絲扣件業那多少會有比較好的對工具機\n就是說那怎麼樣子再加大這個力道呢?再加大讓我們就是說因應這個關稅的變化讓我們的傳產能夠在這個期間內能夠急速的上升呢?我有找郭部長討論我們希望開始跟傳產進行座談那我們會加快這個座談跟討論那怎麼樣進行?\n原則上我們會請工業領袖或是企業領袖大家一起坐下來討論對,因為你沒有創造環境啊你沒有創造這樣子的經濟發展的環境啊我看到了相關的週刊的報導你說你要做的是一個大國發會但是我看到啦過去國發會大國發會是媒體下的標題不是我個人的意見這個我還是要澄清一下\n不是你個人意見是不是因為我看到的是現在行政院裡面有三個就是經濟發展委員會下面有三個有創新經濟、有均衡台灣、有包容成長結果就把你原本國發會的怎樣一分為三是不是你只是三分之一而已還有其他兩個\n國發會的功能性已經不如過去?\n過去在永續會對於淨零碳排現在移到總統府去了對不對那國發會呢國發會現在進行的就是你們相關的基礎建設嗎我們的工作內容還是沒有變因為執行還是要到部會所以我們還在部會上面那上面只是從政策的引導給我們一些指導我們但是在整個執行面還是在部會之間所以我們原來的功能並沒有消失\n好還是在執行中嘿好謝謝喔好謝謝謝謝委員好\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.829 --> 00:24.535\n請謝鳳委員謝謝主席我想請我們劉主委請國會劉主委劉主委有驚到嗎?參譜上台你有驚到嗎?\n\n00:27.355 --> 00:32.161\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分關於行政院基金、離島建設基金、花東地區永續發展\n\n00:46.417 --> 01:09.845\n在這次選戰所主張的經濟民主主義還要提高關稅對其他地區是10%對中國大陸是60%那對於我剛才看了相關的數字相關的模型的眼裡那當然對於中國的經濟會重創但是你必須要思考有非常多的\n\n01:10.811 --> 01:11.993\n委員會及所屬單位預算部分\n\n01:21.986 --> 01:42.733\n三十%的這個出口是對大陸那對大陸以後有可能他們又怎麼樣子又銷售往美國那所以會嚴重的重創臺灣的經濟你講的也許會加速他們回流那但是真的會回流到臺灣嗎\n\n01:45.302 --> 01:59.987\n所有的台商除了台灣以外在上一次上一次同樣情況川普當選的時候對於香港對於新加坡的經濟是重創比台灣更嚴重的情況\n\n02:01.247 --> 02:19.793\n那這一次人家會不會已經做好準備了?新加坡會不會已經做好準備了?臺商一定會移往、移回臺灣嗎?他不會移往臺灣以外的東南亞的第三季例如馬來西亞會不會?\n\n02:22.408 --> 02:49.706\n台商會多元的發展它的新供應鏈那目前來講它會是在目前看起來東南亞是越南跟泰國為主那另外在北美的部分是以這個墨西哥與德州為主那現在也有部分開始移往東歐所以看起來全球化的佈局會更因應這個保守主義的興起會更積極的全球化在台商的運作裡面當然也有部分會到台灣來\n\n02:51.570 --> 03:16.969\n對還有現在美國他所要做的就是提高他核能提高他核能增加兩倍200預計要增加200GW在這樣子的情況下未來美國還是AI的研發重鎮那台灣呢\n\n03:39.585 --> 04:05.505\n他們注重的是經濟民主主義會不會退出WTO他會不會如果這樣子臺灣依賴出口ICT半導體所依據的WTO裡面的ITA的相關的協定的租稅免稅協定到時候會不會變成另外一個關稅的障礙會不會\n\n04:08.860 --> 04:29.942\n如果美國退出的話?如果美國退出當然要看川普的政策但是臺灣的產品多數是零件跟替美國公司組裝再回到美國啦那最大的影響的廠商以目前來看還是以美國廠商受傷會比較重所以我想川普也會深思這個部分\n\n04:30.720 --> 04:54.726\n因為他在2016年那次他在調整關稅的時候他其實有一個公開閱覽讓民眾來提出來哪些會已經造成通膨影響內部民生所以那些當時是有拿掉所以當時他快速的提高這個稅制的時候並沒有造成民生物資的大幅的改變所以我們也在觀察這一次是不是他也會很理性的處理這件事情\n\n04:55.126 --> 05:20.419\n所以你認為他退出的就是說退出WTO就是我們還的那個可能性是很低的是不是不能說低啦但是大家會面臨的狀況會一樣但是他如果退出想要再提高稅制他會有內部的一個充分的討論那你是說以上次來看所以還是有這樣子相關的風險性存在是不是是存在的\n\n05:21.544 --> 05:48.793\n那對於臺灣呢你知道就是說目前臺灣的產業已經面臨了就是K型的高科技的發展的越好傳產的就越來越差在這一次提高關稅美國提高關稅其實有很大的會影響到的就是傳產那對於我們的精密機械我們工具機的影響呢\n\n05:50.517 --> 06:18.155\n要分開來看如果我們最大競爭對手在對岸的話那對岸會是60%的關稅提升我們是10%那10%因為它是對於中國以外的國家所以是一個齊頭式的拉動所以在比較利益上我們還是有反而相較於中國拉動60%的關稅來看如果我們的競爭對手是對岸的像工具機或者是螺絲扣件業那多少會有比較好的對工具機\n\n06:19.861 --> 06:31.225\n就是說那怎麼樣子再加大這個力道呢?再加大讓我們就是說因應這個關稅的變化讓我們的傳產能夠在這個期間內能夠急速的上升呢?我有找郭部長討論我們希望開始跟傳產進行座談那我們會加快這個座談跟討論那怎麼樣進行?\n\n06:47.237 --> 07:13.081\n原則上我們會請工業領袖或是企業領袖大家一起坐下來討論對,因為你沒有創造環境啊你沒有創造這樣子的經濟發展的環境啊我看到了相關的週刊的報導你說你要做的是一個大國發會但是我看到啦過去國發會大國發會是媒體下的標題不是我個人的意見這個我還是要澄清一下\n\n07:14.321 --> 07:38.508\n不是你個人意見是不是因為我看到的是現在行政院裡面有三個就是經濟發展委員會下面有三個有創新經濟、有均衡台灣、有包容成長結果就把你原本國發會的怎樣一分為三是不是你只是三分之一而已還有其他兩個\n\n07:39.548 --> 07:39.788\n國發會的功能性已經不如過去?\n\n08:00.133 --> 08:28.032\n過去在永續會對於淨零碳排現在移到總統府去了對不對那國發會呢國發會現在進行的就是你們相關的基礎建設嗎我們的工作內容還是沒有變因為執行還是要到部會所以我們還在部會上面那上面只是從政策的引導給我們一些指導我們但是在整個執行面還是在部會之間所以我們原來的功能並沒有消失\n\n08:29.314 --> 08:32.739\n好還是在執行中嘿好謝謝喔好謝謝謝謝委員好\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.829,"end":24.535,"text":"請謝鳳委員謝謝主席我想請我們劉主委請國會劉主委劉主委有驚到嗎?參譜上台你有驚到嗎?"},{"start":27.355,"end":32.161,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分關於行政院基金、離島建設基金、花東地區永續發展"},{"start":46.417,"end":69.845,"text":"在這次選戰所主張的經濟民主主義還要提高關稅對其他地區是10%對中國大陸是60%那對於我剛才看了相關的數字相關的模型的眼裡那當然對於中國的經濟會重創但是你必須要思考有非常多的"},{"start":70.811,"end":71.993,"text":"委員會及所屬單位預算部分"},{"start":81.986,"end":102.733,"text":"三十%的這個出口是對大陸那對大陸以後有可能他們又怎麼樣子又銷售往美國那所以會嚴重的重創臺灣的經濟你講的也許會加速他們回流那但是真的會回流到臺灣嗎"},{"start":105.302,"end":119.987,"text":"所有的台商除了台灣以外在上一次上一次同樣情況川普當選的時候對於香港對於新加坡的經濟是重創比台灣更嚴重的情況"},{"start":121.247,"end":139.793,"text":"那這一次人家會不會已經做好準備了?新加坡會不會已經做好準備了?臺商一定會移往、移回臺灣嗎?他不會移往臺灣以外的東南亞的第三季例如馬來西亞會不會?"},{"start":142.408,"end":169.706,"text":"台商會多元的發展它的新供應鏈那目前來講它會是在目前看起來東南亞是越南跟泰國為主那另外在北美的部分是以這個墨西哥與德州為主那現在也有部分開始移往東歐所以看起來全球化的佈局會更因應這個保守主義的興起會更積極的全球化在台商的運作裡面當然也有部分會到台灣來"},{"start":171.57,"end":196.969,"text":"對還有現在美國他所要做的就是提高他核能提高他核能增加兩倍200預計要增加200GW在這樣子的情況下未來美國還是AI的研發重鎮那台灣呢"},{"start":198.302,"end":218.814,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":219.585,"end":245.505,"text":"他們注重的是經濟民主主義會不會退出WTO他會不會如果這樣子臺灣依賴出口ICT半導體所依據的WTO裡面的ITA的相關的協定的租稅免稅協定到時候會不會變成另外一個關稅的障礙會不會"},{"start":248.86,"end":269.942,"text":"如果美國退出的話?如果美國退出當然要看川普的政策但是臺灣的產品多數是零件跟替美國公司組裝再回到美國啦那最大的影響的廠商以目前來看還是以美國廠商受傷會比較重所以我想川普也會深思這個部分"},{"start":270.72,"end":294.726,"text":"因為他在2016年那次他在調整關稅的時候他其實有一個公開閱覽讓民眾來提出來哪些會已經造成通膨影響內部民生所以那些當時是有拿掉所以當時他快速的提高這個稅制的時候並沒有造成民生物資的大幅的改變所以我們也在觀察這一次是不是他也會很理性的處理這件事情"},{"start":295.126,"end":320.419,"text":"所以你認為他退出的就是說退出WTO就是我們還的那個可能性是很低的是不是不能說低啦但是大家會面臨的狀況會一樣但是他如果退出想要再提高稅制他會有內部的一個充分的討論那你是說以上次來看所以還是有這樣子相關的風險性存在是不是是存在的"},{"start":321.544,"end":348.793,"text":"那對於臺灣呢你知道就是說目前臺灣的產業已經面臨了就是K型的高科技的發展的越好傳產的就越來越差在這一次提高關稅美國提高關稅其實有很大的會影響到的就是傳產那對於我們的精密機械我們工具機的影響呢"},{"start":350.517,"end":378.155,"text":"要分開來看如果我們最大競爭對手在對岸的話那對岸會是60%的關稅提升我們是10%那10%因為它是對於中國以外的國家所以是一個齊頭式的拉動所以在比較利益上我們還是有反而相較於中國拉動60%的關稅來看如果我們的競爭對手是對岸的像工具機或者是螺絲扣件業那多少會有比較好的對工具機"},{"start":379.861,"end":391.225,"text":"就是說那怎麼樣子再加大這個力道呢?再加大讓我們就是說因應這個關稅的變化讓我們的傳產能夠在這個期間內能夠急速的上升呢?我有找郭部長討論我們希望開始跟傳產進行座談那我們會加快這個座談跟討論那怎麼樣進行?"},{"start":407.237,"end":433.081,"text":"原則上我們會請工業領袖或是企業領袖大家一起坐下來討論對,因為你沒有創造環境啊你沒有創造這樣子的經濟發展的環境啊我看到了相關的週刊的報導你說你要做的是一個大國發會但是我看到啦過去國發會大國發會是媒體下的標題不是我個人的意見這個我還是要澄清一下"},{"start":434.321,"end":458.508,"text":"不是你個人意見是不是因為我看到的是現在行政院裡面有三個就是經濟發展委員會下面有三個有創新經濟、有均衡台灣、有包容成長結果就把你原本國發會的怎樣一分為三是不是你只是三分之一而已還有其他兩個"},{"start":459.548,"end":459.788,"text":"國發會的功能性已經不如過去?"},{"start":480.133,"end":508.032,"text":"過去在永續會對於淨零碳排現在移到總統府去了對不對那國發會呢國發會現在進行的就是你們相關的基礎建設嗎我們的工作內容還是沒有變因為執行還是要到部會所以我們還在部會上面那上面只是從政策的引導給我們一些指導我們但是在整個執行面還是在部會之間所以我們原來的功能並沒有消失"},{"start":509.314,"end":512.739,"text":"好還是在執行中嘿好謝謝喔好謝謝謝謝委員好"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":598,"blocks":[["謝委員衣鳯：（11時22分）謝謝主席。我想要請劉主委。"],["主席：請國發會劉主委。"],["謝委員衣鳯：劉主委有沒有被嚇到？川普上台，你有沒有被嚇到？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：沒有啦！反正他是第二次上任了，所以還好。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我看到國發會所有的相關資料，你們都認為會跟他第一次上任一樣，對臺灣有好處。可是我必須要講，他在這次選戰中所主張的經濟民族主義說要提高關稅，對其他地區是10%，對中國大陸是60%。我剛剛看了相關模型的研擬，當然對中國的經濟會重創，但是你必須思考，有非常多的臺灣傳產以及高科技產業目前都在中國大陸發展。我們臺灣有30%的出口是對大陸，到大陸以後有可能又銷往美國，所以會嚴重地重創臺灣的經濟。你講的，也許會加速他們回流，但是真的會回流到臺灣嗎？所有的臺商，除了臺灣以外，在上次同樣情況、川普當選的時候，對於香港、新加坡的經濟是重創，而且情況比臺灣更嚴重，那麼這次人家會不會已經做好準備了？新加坡會不會已經做好準備了？臺商一定要移回臺灣嗎？它會不會移往臺灣以外的東南亞第三地，例如馬來西亞，會不會？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：臺商會多元地發展它的新供應鏈，目前看起來，東南亞是以越南和泰國為主，另外在北美的部分是以墨西哥與德州為主，現在也有部分開始移往東歐，所以看起來，在臺商的運作裡面，全球化的布局會因應這個保守主義的興起而更積極的全球化，當然也有一部分會回到臺灣來。"],["謝委員衣鳯：對。還有，現在美國所要做的就是提高它的核能發電，預計要增加2倍（200GW），在這樣子的情況下，未來美國還是AI的研發重鎮，那臺灣呢？我們還是在硬體設備嗎？我們的能源政策有沒有辦法因應這一波整體的半導體轉型？還有，剛才說了，川普他們注重的是經濟民族主義，那麼他們會不會退出WTO？如果這樣的話，臺灣倚賴出口的ICT、半導體所依據的WTO架構下ITA的相關租稅免稅協定，到時候會不會變成另外一個關稅障礙？會不會？如果美國退出的話。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：如果美國退出？當然要看川普的政策。但是臺灣的產品多數是零件跟替美國公司組裝後再回到美國，影響最大的廠商目前來看還是以美國廠商受傷會比較重，所以我想川普也會深思這一部分。因為他在2016年那次調整關稅的時候，其實有一個公開閱覽的程序，讓民眾提出哪些會造成通膨、影響內部民生，所以那些當時是有拿掉，因此當時他快速提高稅制的時候，並沒有造成民生物資的大幅改變，所以我們也在觀察這次他是不是也會很理性地處理這件事情。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以你認為他退出WTO的可能性是很低的，是不是？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：不能說低啦，但是大家面臨的狀況會一樣，而且他如果退出，想要再提高稅制，他會有內部一個充分的討論；以上次來看。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以還是有相關的風險性存在，是不是？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：是存在的。"],["謝委員衣鳯：那麼對於臺灣呢？你知道目前臺灣的產業已經面臨了K型，高科技的發展得越好，傳產的就越來越差，而這次美國提高關稅，會受到很大影響的就是傳產，請問對於我們的精密機械和工具機的影響呢？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：這要分開來看，如果我們最大競爭對手在對岸的話，對岸會是60%的關稅提升，我們是10%，10%因為它是對於中國以外的國家，是一個齊頭式的拉動，所以在比較利益上，相較於中國拉動60%的關稅來看，如果我們的競爭對手是對岸，像工具機或者是螺絲扣件業，反而多少會有比較好的……"],["謝委員衣鳯：對工具機？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：好處會多一點。"],["謝委員衣鳯：那怎麼樣再加大這個力道呢？就是因應這個關稅的變化，如何讓我們的傳產能夠在這個期間內急速上升呢？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我有找郭部長討論，我們希望開始跟傳產進行座談，我們會加快這個座談和討論。"],["謝委員衣鳯：要怎麼樣進行？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：原則上我們會請工業領袖或者企業領袖，大家一起坐下來討論……"],["謝委員衣鳯：因為你沒有創造環境啊！你沒有創造這樣子的經濟發展的環境啊！我看到相關週刊的報導，你說你要做的是一個「大國發會」，但是我看到了啊，過去國發會……"],["劉主任委員鏡清：「大國發會」是媒體下的標題，不是我個人的意見，這個我還是要澄清一下。"],["謝委員衣鳯：不是你個人的意見？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：不是，那是媒體下標。"],["謝委員衣鳯：因為我看到的是，現在行政院經濟發展委員會下面有3個：創新經濟、均衡臺灣、包容成長，把原本的國發會一分為三耶！是不是？你只是三分之一而已耶！還有其他兩個耶！對不對？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我們現在是以互補的方式在進行，還是可以有很多不同的意見，讓我們來做更好的改善，實際執行還是在國發會。"],["謝委員衣鳯：認真看起來，我認為國發會的功能性已經不如過去了嘛！是不是？過去永續會的淨零碳排現在已經移到總統府去了啊，對不對？那國發會呢？國發會現在進行的就是相關的基礎建設嘛！"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我們的工作內容還是沒有變，因為執行還是要到部會，所以我們還是在部會上面。上面只是從政策的引導給我們一些指導，但是整個執行面還是在部會之間，所以我們原來的功能並沒有消失，還是在執行中。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好，謝謝。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：謝謝委員。"],["主席：非常謝謝謝衣鳯委員，時間掌握得分秒不差。"],["謝委員衣鳯：希望你不要生氣。"],["主席：我也沒生氣，我只是……"],["張委員嘉郡：我們都是為了你。"],["主席：萬萬不要這麼說，是為了國家。","下一位質詢請陳超明委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":214,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-16","speakers":["邱志偉","林岱樺","邱議瑩","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","陳亭妃","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","賴瑞隆","楊瓊瓔","謝衣鳯","張嘉郡","陳超明","呂玉玲","葉元之","蔡易餘"],"page_start":169,"meetingDate":["2024-11-21"],"gazette_id":"11310401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310401_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第16次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於行政院歲入預算第5款第1項第2目暨國家發展委員會及所\n屬單位預算部分；二、審查 114 年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於行政院主\n管：行政院國家發展基金、離島建設基金、花東地區永續發展基金及促進轉型正義基金（詢答）","agenda_id":"11310401_00003"}}}