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550.029, \"end\": 578.18, \"text\": \"好再來目前我們看到整備組的異動37%是確實是偏高的但是也高於機關署的13%所以幾個調查重點要特別提醒一下我們的部長第一個這個委員會的組成要合理該避免的人士就要迴避外部委員的人數也比例也應該要提高相關人士的邀約談還有包含主管基層\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 550.029, \"end\": 550.269, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 550.269, \"end\": 553.71, \"score\": 0.584}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 553.71, \"end\": 553.85, \"score\": 0.752}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 553.85, \"end\": 554.011, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 554.011, \"end\": 554.131, \"score\": 0.694}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 554.131, \"end\": 554.291, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 554.291, \"end\": 554.631, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 554.631, \"end\": 555.231, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"備\"}, {\"word\": \"組\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 555.231, \"end\": 556.592, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"異\"}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"7\"}, {\"word\": 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728.684, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 728.684, \"end\": 728.824, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"反\", \"start\": 728.824, \"end\": 728.964, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 728.964, \"end\": 728.984, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"放\", \"start\": 728.984, \"end\": 729.045, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"款\", \"start\": 729.045, \"end\": 729.125, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 729.125, \"end\": 729.145, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"守\", \"start\": 729.145, \"end\": 729.165, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"護\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 729.165, \"end\": 729.185, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 729.185, \"end\": 729.205, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 729.205, \"end\": 729.245, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"食\", \"start\": 729.245, \"end\": 729.365, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"品\", \"start\": 729.365, \"end\": 729.385, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 729.385, \"end\": 729.405, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 729.405, \"end\": 729.425, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 729.425, \"end\": 729.525, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 729.525, \"end\": 729.605, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 729.605, \"end\": 729.625, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 729.625, \"end\": 729.685, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"廖\", \"start\": 729.685, \"end\": 729.805, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 729.805, \"end\": 729.825, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 729.825, \"end\": 729.885, \"score\": 0.664}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 729.885, \"end\": 730.046, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 730.046, \"end\": 730.066, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"守\", \"start\": 730.066, \"end\": 730.086, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"護\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,708 --> 00:00:08,729\n謝謝主席有請邱部長\n\n2\n00:00:13,942 --> 00:00:32,518\n委員好部長你好部長有關新冠跟流感混打的事宜根據美國醫學會的雜誌刊登的文獻研究發現同時接種COVID-19疫苗跟流感疫苗後中風的風險會增加\n\n3\n00:00:34,652 --> 00:00:59,288\n那美國食品藥物管理局的專家分析了醫療保險索賠的數據也得出相同的結論那同時CNN在去年的10月26日也報導混打會提高中風的風險那請問部長現在這些研究有出來對於風險的部分是持相反的意見那會不會考慮停止左流右行的這個這項做法\n\n4\n00:01:01,149 --> 00:01:16,571\n好薛委員的指教齁那我想我們所有的疫苗怎麼打要打什麼都是由ACIP齁或者是相關的一個專家齁經過很嚴謹的考的一個當然他們每一個都是應該都是這一方面的專家對我相信是專家\n\n5\n00:01:17,612 --> 00:01:39,820\n所以應該會這樣的打法那個應該是專家所但部長我去查了一下因為左流右心的這個施打方法是在依據111年的2月25日傳染病防治諮詢會的流感防治組預防接種組的聯席會議訂定的所以是在111年的2月25號可是\n\n6\n00:01:43,281 --> 00:02:05,308\n這些是後來美國學界在去年做出病打會增加風險的研究所以我要跟你講的你懂我的意思嗎瞭解在這部分疾管署跟ACIP的會議是不是要重新檢討雖然說有很多的這種醫學的研究或許都有正反兩面的意見但是是不是應該要重新檢討而且要把這種各種風險明確的告訴我們的國人是\n\n7\n00:02:09,304 --> 00:02:34,579\n是的那是不是我請署長莊署長報告委員那有關這個報導的部分那容我們再去看因為每一個研究它有不同的一個證據等級那這個部分我們也會收集這些研究然後再去跟我們的ACIP的委員會來做這方面的一個對因為當初你們設定的時間點跟後來出來的研究是有落差的不過應該是說\n\n8\n00:02:36,760 --> 00:03:00,176\n當初是這樣但是我們陸續也有看到其他是正面的一些結果你說左流右心對所以我們也會好那我就接下來就繼續講了國外目前主要討論就是有關混打兩種疫苗後老人心血管啊腦中風的病患機率提高的問題那所以日前在基隆也出現左流右心一次接種之後就有民眾不幸死亡的案例\n\n9\n00:03:01,616 --> 00:03:16,545\n上個月在臺東也有接種5天後身亡的案例那對此疾管署你們的回應是什麼回應是說通常都是接種一小時後發生的副作用那一般就不會被認定跟疫苗相關的副作用\n\n10\n00:03:17,594 --> 00:03:44,623\n是有關係但這樣的風險是不是存在民眾如果知道有這樣的風險而且接種後的副作用的保固卻只有一個小時部長你認為民眾對於這樣左流右行同時混打的接受度會提高還是會降低我想如果媒體這樣的消息當然會影響到接種率的意願所以以臺大意願而言在\n\n11\n00:03:46,603 --> 00:04:14,562\n11月現在是11月11月還打得不錯11月好像就稍微降下來了所以的確我們要好好的來來瞭解來跟民眾再度你們要應該要再一次的深入去瞭解重新召開然後因為他有風險應該是要讓民眾可以明確明白自己有風險之後再自行評估他要不要參與施打\n\n12\n00:04:16,584 --> 00:04:27,098\n我之前也幫很多疫苗受害家屬開過記者會討空到因為你們發生這件事情之後你們後續就在自己審議委員會裡面每一個案例只花了80秒的時間\n\n13\n00:04:29,167 --> 00:04:51,140\n而且深入分析之後統整大概衛福部就是用兩大招數在迴避自己的責任一個是以特定醫學文獻指稱患者狀況與疫苗無關第二個則是扣上患者可能有潛在慢性疾病的帽子那現在這樣子的做法如果沒有審慎去面對你就可能會創造更多新冠疫苗的這種受害者然後到時候再來揮\n\n14\n00:04:52,792 --> 00:05:03,536\n報告委員那像這一例他會做這個解剖啦所以會做進一步的查證那這個之前開會記者會很多細節就是你們就是不夠嚴謹那另外這個剛剛說這個開會80秒那個我想有些誤會因為其實我們每一個案\n\n15\n00:05:09,898 --> 00:05:11,980\n若沒有的話可不可以請部長在這裡澄清跟保證\n\n16\n00:05:39,739 --> 00:05:44,106\n我們冒著風險要去推這個左流右行並不是為了要為未來雙效疫苗在進行真實世界的人體試驗\n\n17\n00:05:48,663 --> 00:06:16,119\n我相信所有的專家疫苗專家我不曉得是誰但是一定都是各全國各地的醫療相關的精英你從我擔任在醫界這麼多年我相信沒有一個醫療的專家會站在任何所以部長你保證就不會是嗎我只是要你曾經保證一下嘛保證不會因為這種原因來做這種事情好所以我還是要強調一下我是希望提高接種率我還是要強調一下我並沒有反對疫苗施打的推行\n\n18\n00:06:16,559 --> 00:06:44,840\n但是你們應該要誠實而且非常公開透明的讓小心的告訴我們的民眾這應該是衛福部的責任而不是只是負責花錢去為了提升疫苗的打氣然後後續發生了又不管什麼副作用然後你們的整個整個審理這些疫苗受害的過程非常的狹隘讓這些人為了公衛去願意打這個疫苗可是發生問題之後卻得不到賠償\n\n19\n00:06:46,428 --> 00:07:06,355\n另外部長這個有關衛福部的這個霸凌的事情公務體系今天也很多人都有問但是昨天賴總統終於在事發17天後在臉書上檢討這件事情他強調每一位每一名員工都是政府機關重要的議員都是人才要加強對於他們關懷跟保護\n\n20\n00:07:08,576 --> 00:07:26,283\n那但是昨天勞動部和部長對於這個霸凌的調查報告說他有他的惡可是這樣的惡是不是普遍存在官僚體制中就像是德國哲學家漢納厄蘭所說的平庸的邪惡請問部長你認同這個這句話嗎平庸的邪惡\n\n21\n00:07:30,523 --> 00:07:31,584\n我是很認同何部長引述漢娜二蘭所說邪惡的平庸\n\n22\n00:07:45,416 --> 00:08:05,334\n因為那是在批判那些在納粹希特勒威權領導下社會集體的思考無能所以他是不是在影射這幾年的民進黨政府的執政我想這就用大家去解讀我就不評判了但是我要強調即使他說這個平庸的邪惡但絕對沒有目的良善的霸凌所以我想問一下上週這個\n\n23\n00:08:10,205 --> 00:08:39,523\n部長啊上週在社群媒體的這個有關爆料機關署整備組組長也有這方面的問題請教部長啊罵人是豬啊是求好行妾目的良善情緒失控公然侮辱還是平庸的邪惡哪一種啊罵人只要是在職場上有罵人都是不對的啦不管你用什麼言辭這樣子好所以這件事情啊霸凌的事件你們是不是也認知到這件事情不能再拖有我們一個禮拜之內會你是因為行政院\n\n24\n00:08:40,003 --> 00:09:07,251\n被行政院長罵了才趕快改還是行政院長道歉了因為你們本來說兩個月現在變一個禮拜院長是指示指示大家任何這有寫嘛以便媒體最後或者討論的是案件全部要在一周內完成調查追責責任這一件事情啊能夠帶來讓相關霸凌事件的重視跟加速的調查我想是我們在不幸中的這個事件要學到的其中一個教訓會很謹慎\n\n25\n00:09:10,029 --> 00:09:38,180\n好再來目前我們看到整備組的異動37%是確實是偏高的但是也高於機關署的13%所以幾個調查重點要特別提醒一下我們的部長第一個這個委員會的組成要合理該避免的人士就要迴避外部委員的人數也比例也應該要提高相關人士的邀約談還有包含主管基層\n\n26\n00:09:39,076 --> 00:09:41,809\n然後也要確保中間到底有沒有人吃案、押案\n\n27\n00:09:42,990 --> 00:10:11,021\n那也沒有要查核然後現在時代也不是只是用公文在下命令所以這些媒介都應該要去掌握那另外我是希望這個調查請部長我也有看到你有保證應該要公正超然不要有行政瑕疵不然我們一定會追究到底對我想這個該辦就要辦公務體系不應該成為這個官場現行記的舞台應該是穩定國家發展的基石主席不好意思我還有還是有一點點問題要問\n\n28\n00:10:13,919 --> 00:10:34,110\n好我直接跳下一題好了有關於日前食藥署發布公告將這個藥放寬六項標準標準放寬從一倍到三倍都有事實上減少農藥等化學物質在蔬果上提倡無農藥的種植都是趨勢我想問一下\n\n29\n00:10:35,413 --> 00:10:47,646\n為什麼現在會反其道而行放寬標準你看這裡面阿福平調高2.5倍其他3倍2.8倍這些都有高於歐盟3倍高於歐盟5倍都有我想要請問一下\n\n30\n00:10:48,969 --> 00:11:14,700\n為什麼會有這樣的原因是其他他國要求嗎還是是有其他的原因呢是不是是那個裝死請裝死跟委員報告一下因為這些農藥的放寬的標準主要的原因是我們那時候是依據農業部的要求有的是因為他在在各個地的依據農業部的要求啊那農業部為什麼要要求這件事情犧牲國人的食品安全健康\n\n31\n00:11:17,074 --> 00:11:31,025\n過去就已經討論過草莓農要標準放寬經過激烈的討論之後並沒有通過為什麼現在又要放寬呢是因為要因應日本的要求嗎還是有誰在下指導旗要犧牲國人的健康\n\n32\n00:11:32,625 --> 00:11:38,968\n以前就已經討論過為什麼現在要突然放寬明明就是往沒有農藥的方向去走就是趨勢那你現在放寬的背後的邏輯到底是什麼而且這也有寫日本草莓今年又新增開放了使用七種農藥\n\n33\n00:11:59,315 --> 00:12:10,086\n我要提醒你們不應該把人民的健康把人民的食安放在風險之中所以我反對把這個放款為了守護人民的食品安全好謝謝主席好謝謝廖委員謝謝我們一定會守護\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7708\t8729\t謝謝主席 有請邱部長\n13942\t32518\t委員好部長你好部長有關新冠跟流感混打的事宜根據美國醫學會的雜誌刊登的文獻研究發現同時接種COVID-19疫苗跟流感疫苗後中風的風險會增加\n34652\t59288\t那美國食品藥物管理局的專家分析了醫療保險索賠的數據也得出相同的結論那同時CNN在去年的10月26日也報導混打會提高中風的風險那請問部長現在這些研究有出來對於風險的部分是持相反的意見那會不會考慮停止左流右行的這個這項做法\n61149\t76571\t好 薛委員的指教齁 那我想我們所有的疫苗怎麼打 要打什麼 都是由ACIP齁 或者是相關的一個專家齁 經過很嚴謹的考的一個 當然他們每一個都是 應該都是這一方面的專家對 我相信是專家\n77612\t99820\t所以應該會這樣的打法那個應該是專家所但部長我去查了一下因為左流右心的這個施打方法是在依據111年的2月25日傳染病防治諮詢會的流感防治組預防接種組的聯席會議訂定的所以是在111年的2月25號可是\n103281\t125308\t這些是後來美國學界在去年做出病打會增加風險的研究所以我要跟你講的你懂我的意思嗎瞭解在這部分疾管署跟ACIP的會議是不是要重新檢討雖然說有很多的這種醫學的研究或許都有正反兩面的意見但是是不是應該要重新檢討而且要把這種各種風險明確的告訴我們的國人是\n129304\t154579\t是的那是不是我請署長莊署長報告委員那有關這個報導的部分那容我們再去看因為每一個研究它有不同的一個證據等級那這個部分我們也會收集這些研究然後再去跟我們的ACIP的委員會來做這方面的一個對因為當初你們設定的時間點跟後來出來的研究是有落差的不過應該是說\n156760\t180176\t當初是這樣但是我們陸續也有看到其他是正面的一些結果你說左流右心對所以我們也會好那我就接下來就繼續講了國外目前主要討論就是有關混打兩種疫苗後老人心血管啊腦中風的病患機率提高的問題那所以日前在基隆也出現左流右心一次接種之後就有民眾不幸死亡的案例\n181616\t196545\t上個月在臺東也有接種5天後身亡的案例那對此 疾管署你們的回應是什麼回應是說通常都是接種一小時後發生的副作用那一般就不會被認定跟疫苗相關的副作用\n197594\t224623\t是有關係但這樣的風險是不是存在民眾如果知道有這樣的風險而且接種後的副作用的保固卻只有一個小時部長你認為民眾對於這樣左流右行同時混打的接受度會提高還是會降低我想如果媒體這樣的消息當然會影響到接種率的意願所以以臺大意願而言在\n226603\t254562\t11月現在是11月11月還打得不錯11月好像就稍微降下來了所以的確我們要好好的來來瞭解來跟民眾再度你們要應該要再一次的深入去瞭解重新召開然後因為他有風險應該是要讓民眾可以明確明白自己有風險之後再自行評估他要不要參與施打\n256584\t267098\t我之前也幫很多疫苗受害家屬開過記者會討空到因為你們發生這件事情之後你們後續就在自己審議委員會裡面每一個案例只花了80秒的時間\n269167\t291140\t而且深入分析之後統整大概衛福部就是用兩大招數在迴避自己的責任一個是以特定醫學文獻指稱患者狀況與疫苗無關第二個則是扣上患者可能有潛在慢性疾病的帽子那現在這樣子的做法如果沒有審慎去面對你就可能會創造更多新冠疫苗的這種受害者然後到時候再來揮\n292792\t303536\t報告委員那像這一例他會做這個解剖啦所以會做進一步的查證那這個之前開會記者會很多細節就是你們就是不夠嚴謹那另外這個剛剛說這個開會80秒那個我想有些誤會因為其實我們每一個案\n309898\t311980\t若沒有的話可不可以請部長在這裡澄清跟保證\n339739\t344106\t我們冒著風險要去推這個左流右行並不是為了要為未來雙效疫苗在進行真實世界的人體試驗\n348663\t376119\t我相信所有的專家疫苗專家我不曉得是誰但是一定都是各全國各地的醫療相關的精英你從我擔任在醫界這麼多年我相信沒有一個醫療的專家會站在任何所以部長你保證就不會是嗎我只是要你曾經保證一下嘛保證不會因為這種原因來做這種事情好所以我還是要強調一下我是希望提高接種率我還是要強調一下我並沒有反對疫苗施打的推行\n376559\t404840\t但是你們應該要誠實而且非常公開透明的讓小心的告訴我們的民眾這應該是衛福部的責任而不是只是負責花錢去為了提升疫苗的打氣然後後續發生了又不管什麼副作用然後你們的整個整個審理這些疫苗受害的過程非常的狹隘讓這些人為了公衛去願意打這個疫苗可是發生問題之後卻得不到賠償\n406428\t426355\t另外部長這個有關衛福部的這個霸凌的事情公務體系今天也很多人都有問但是昨天賴總統終於在事發17天後在臉書上檢討這件事情他強調每一位每一名員工都是政府機關重要的議員都是人才要加強對於他們關懷跟保護\n428576\t446283\t那但是昨天勞動部和部長對於這個霸凌的調查報告說他有他的惡可是這樣的惡是不是普遍存在官僚體制中就像是德國哲學家漢納厄蘭所說的平庸的邪惡請問部長你認同這個這句話嗎平庸的邪惡\n450523\t451584\t我是很認同何部長引述漢娜二蘭所說邪惡的平庸\n465416\t485334\t因為那是在批判那些在納粹希特勒威權領導下社會集體的思考無能所以他是不是在影射這幾年的民進黨政府的執政我想這就用大家去解讀我就不評判了但是我要強調即使他說這個平庸的邪惡但絕對沒有目的良善的霸凌所以我想問一下上週這個\n490205\t519523\t部長啊上週在社群媒體的這個有關爆料機關署整備組組長也有這方面的問題請教部長啊罵人是豬啊是求好行妾目的良善情緒失控公然侮辱還是平庸的邪惡哪一種啊罵人只要是在職場上有罵人都是不對的啦不管你用什麼言辭這樣子好所以這件事情啊霸凌的事件你們是不是也認知到這件事情不能再拖有我們一個禮拜之內會你是因為行政院\n520003\t547251\t被行政院長罵了才趕快改還是行政院長道歉了因為你們本來說兩個月現在變一個禮拜院長是指示指示大家任何這有寫嘛以便媒體最後或者討論的是案件全部要在一周內完成調查追責責任這一件事情啊能夠帶來讓相關霸凌事件的重視跟加速的調查我想是我們在不幸中的這個事件要學到的其中一個教訓會很謹慎\n550029\t578180\t好再來目前我們看到整備組的異動37%是確實是偏高的但是也高於機關署的13%所以幾個調查重點要特別提醒一下我們的部長第一個這個委員會的組成要合理該避免的人士就要迴避外部委員的人數也比例也應該要提高相關人士的邀約談還有包含主管基層\n579076\t581809\t然後也要確保中間到底有沒有人吃案、押案\n582990\t611021\t那也沒有要查核然後現在時代也不是只是用公文在下命令所以這些媒介都應該要去掌握那另外我是希望這個調查請部長我也有看到你有保證應該要公正超然不要有行政瑕疵不然我們一定會追究到底對我想這個該辦就要辦公務體系不應該成為這個官場現行記的舞台應該是穩定國家發展的基石主席不好意思我還有還是有一點點問題要問\n613919\t634110\t好我直接跳下一題好了有關於日前食藥署發布公告將這個藥放寬六項標準標準放寬從一倍到三倍都有事實上減少農藥等化學物質在蔬果上提倡無農藥的種植都是趨勢我想問一下\n635413\t647646\t為什麼現在會反其道而行放寬標準你看這裡面阿福平調高2.5倍其他3倍2.8倍這些都有高於歐盟3倍高於歐盟5倍都有我想要請問一下\n648969\t674700\t為什麼會有這樣的原因是其他他國要求嗎還是是有其他的原因呢是不是是那個裝死請裝死跟委員報告一下因為這些農藥的放寬的標準主要的原因是我們那時候是依據農業部的要求有的是因為他在在各個地的依據農業部的要求啊那農業部為什麼要要求這件事情犧牲國人的食品安全健康\n677074\t691025\t過去就已經討論過草莓農要標準放寬經過激烈的討論之後並沒有通過為什麼現在又要放寬呢是因為要因應日本的要求嗎還是有誰在下指導旗要犧牲國人的健康\n692625\t698968\t以前就已經討論過為什麼現在要突然放寬明明就是往沒有農藥的方向去走就是趨勢那你現在放寬的背後的邏輯到底是什麼而且這也有寫日本草莓今年又新增開放了使用七種農藥\n719315\t730086\t我要提醒你們不應該把人民的健康把人民的食安放在風險之中所以我反對把這個放款為了守護人民的食品安全好謝謝主席好謝謝廖委員謝謝我們一定會守護\n","txt":"謝謝主席 有請邱部長\n委員好部長你好部長有關新冠跟流感混打的事宜根據美國醫學會的雜誌刊登的文獻研究發現同時接種COVID-19疫苗跟流感疫苗後中風的風險會增加\n那美國食品藥物管理局的專家分析了醫療保險索賠的數據也得出相同的結論那同時CNN在去年的10月26日也報導混打會提高中風的風險那請問部長現在這些研究有出來對於風險的部分是持相反的意見那會不會考慮停止左流右行的這個這項做法\n好 薛委員的指教齁 那我想我們所有的疫苗怎麼打 要打什麼 都是由ACIP齁 或者是相關的一個專家齁 經過很嚴謹的考的一個 當然他們每一個都是 應該都是這一方面的專家對 我相信是專家\n所以應該會這樣的打法那個應該是專家所但部長我去查了一下因為左流右心的這個施打方法是在依據111年的2月25日傳染病防治諮詢會的流感防治組預防接種組的聯席會議訂定的所以是在111年的2月25號可是\n這些是後來美國學界在去年做出病打會增加風險的研究所以我要跟你講的你懂我的意思嗎瞭解在這部分疾管署跟ACIP的會議是不是要重新檢討雖然說有很多的這種醫學的研究或許都有正反兩面的意見但是是不是應該要重新檢討而且要把這種各種風險明確的告訴我們的國人是\n是的那是不是我請署長莊署長報告委員那有關這個報導的部分那容我們再去看因為每一個研究它有不同的一個證據等級那這個部分我們也會收集這些研究然後再去跟我們的ACIP的委員會來做這方面的一個對因為當初你們設定的時間點跟後來出來的研究是有落差的不過應該是說\n當初是這樣但是我們陸續也有看到其他是正面的一些結果你說左流右心對所以我們也會好那我就接下來就繼續講了國外目前主要討論就是有關混打兩種疫苗後老人心血管啊腦中風的病患機率提高的問題那所以日前在基隆也出現左流右心一次接種之後就有民眾不幸死亡的案例\n上個月在臺東也有接種5天後身亡的案例那對此 疾管署你們的回應是什麼回應是說通常都是接種一小時後發生的副作用那一般就不會被認定跟疫苗相關的副作用\n是有關係但這樣的風險是不是存在民眾如果知道有這樣的風險而且接種後的副作用的保固卻只有一個小時部長你認為民眾對於這樣左流右行同時混打的接受度會提高還是會降低我想如果媒體這樣的消息當然會影響到接種率的意願所以以臺大意願而言在\n11月現在是11月11月還打得不錯11月好像就稍微降下來了所以的確我們要好好的來來瞭解來跟民眾再度你們要應該要再一次的深入去瞭解重新召開然後因為他有風險應該是要讓民眾可以明確明白自己有風險之後再自行評估他要不要參與施打\n我之前也幫很多疫苗受害家屬開過記者會討空到因為你們發生這件事情之後你們後續就在自己審議委員會裡面每一個案例只花了80秒的時間\n而且深入分析之後統整大概衛福部就是用兩大招數在迴避自己的責任一個是以特定醫學文獻指稱患者狀況與疫苗無關第二個則是扣上患者可能有潛在慢性疾病的帽子那現在這樣子的做法如果沒有審慎去面對你就可能會創造更多新冠疫苗的這種受害者然後到時候再來揮\n報告委員那像這一例他會做這個解剖啦所以會做進一步的查證那這個之前開會記者會很多細節就是你們就是不夠嚴謹那另外這個剛剛說這個開會80秒那個我想有些誤會因為其實我們每一個案\n若沒有的話可不可以請部長在這裡澄清跟保證\n我們冒著風險要去推這個左流右行並不是為了要為未來雙效疫苗在進行真實世界的人體試驗\n我相信所有的專家疫苗專家我不曉得是誰但是一定都是各全國各地的醫療相關的精英你從我擔任在醫界這麼多年我相信沒有一個醫療的專家會站在任何所以部長你保證就不會是嗎我只是要你曾經保證一下嘛保證不會因為這種原因來做這種事情好所以我還是要強調一下我是希望提高接種率我還是要強調一下我並沒有反對疫苗施打的推行\n但是你們應該要誠實而且非常公開透明的讓小心的告訴我們的民眾這應該是衛福部的責任而不是只是負責花錢去為了提升疫苗的打氣然後後續發生了又不管什麼副作用然後你們的整個整個審理這些疫苗受害的過程非常的狹隘讓這些人為了公衛去願意打這個疫苗可是發生問題之後卻得不到賠償\n另外部長這個有關衛福部的這個霸凌的事情公務體系今天也很多人都有問但是昨天賴總統終於在事發17天後在臉書上檢討這件事情他強調每一位每一名員工都是政府機關重要的議員都是人才要加強對於他們關懷跟保護\n那但是昨天勞動部和部長對於這個霸凌的調查報告說他有他的惡可是這樣的惡是不是普遍存在官僚體制中就像是德國哲學家漢納厄蘭所說的平庸的邪惡請問部長你認同這個這句話嗎平庸的邪惡\n我是很認同何部長引述漢娜二蘭所說邪惡的平庸\n因為那是在批判那些在納粹希特勒威權領導下社會集體的思考無能所以他是不是在影射這幾年的民進黨政府的執政我想這就用大家去解讀我就不評判了但是我要強調即使他說這個平庸的邪惡但絕對沒有目的良善的霸凌所以我想問一下上週這個\n部長啊上週在社群媒體的這個有關爆料機關署整備組組長也有這方面的問題請教部長啊罵人是豬啊是求好行妾目的良善情緒失控公然侮辱還是平庸的邪惡哪一種啊罵人只要是在職場上有罵人都是不對的啦不管你用什麼言辭這樣子好所以這件事情啊霸凌的事件你們是不是也認知到這件事情不能再拖有我們一個禮拜之內會你是因為行政院\n被行政院長罵了才趕快改還是行政院長道歉了因為你們本來說兩個月現在變一個禮拜院長是指示指示大家任何這有寫嘛以便媒體最後或者討論的是案件全部要在一周內完成調查追責責任這一件事情啊能夠帶來讓相關霸凌事件的重視跟加速的調查我想是我們在不幸中的這個事件要學到的其中一個教訓會很謹慎\n好再來目前我們看到整備組的異動37%是確實是偏高的但是也高於機關署的13%所以幾個調查重點要特別提醒一下我們的部長第一個這個委員會的組成要合理該避免的人士就要迴避外部委員的人數也比例也應該要提高相關人士的邀約談還有包含主管基層\n然後也要確保中間到底有沒有人吃案、押案\n那也沒有要查核然後現在時代也不是只是用公文在下命令所以這些媒介都應該要去掌握那另外我是希望這個調查請部長我也有看到你有保證應該要公正超然不要有行政瑕疵不然我們一定會追究到底對我想這個該辦就要辦公務體系不應該成為這個官場現行記的舞台應該是穩定國家發展的基石主席不好意思我還有還是有一點點問題要問\n好我直接跳下一題好了有關於日前食藥署發布公告將這個藥放寬六項標準標準放寬從一倍到三倍都有事實上減少農藥等化學物質在蔬果上提倡無農藥的種植都是趨勢我想問一下\n為什麼現在會反其道而行放寬標準你看這裡面阿福平調高2.5倍其他3倍2.8倍這些都有高於歐盟3倍高於歐盟5倍都有我想要請問一下\n為什麼會有這樣的原因是其他他國要求嗎還是是有其他的原因呢是不是是那個裝死請裝死跟委員報告一下因為這些農藥的放寬的標準主要的原因是我們那時候是依據農業部的要求有的是因為他在在各個地的依據農業部的要求啊那農業部為什麼要要求這件事情犧牲國人的食品安全健康\n過去就已經討論過草莓農要標準放寬經過激烈的討論之後並沒有通過為什麼現在又要放寬呢是因為要因應日本的要求嗎還是有誰在下指導旗要犧牲國人的健康\n以前就已經討論過為什麼現在要突然放寬明明就是往沒有農藥的方向去走就是趨勢那你現在放寬的背後的邏輯到底是什麼而且這也有寫日本草莓今年又新增開放了使用七種農藥\n我要提醒你們不應該把人民的健康把人民的食安放在風險之中所以我反對把這個放款為了守護人民的食品安全好謝謝主席好謝謝廖委員謝謝我們一定會守護\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.708 --> 00:08.729\n謝謝主席有請邱部長\n\n00:13.942 --> 00:32.518\n委員好部長你好部長有關新冠跟流感混打的事宜根據美國醫學會的雜誌刊登的文獻研究發現同時接種COVID-19疫苗跟流感疫苗後中風的風險會增加\n\n00:34.652 --> 00:59.288\n那美國食品藥物管理局的專家分析了醫療保險索賠的數據也得出相同的結論那同時CNN在去年的10月26日也報導混打會提高中風的風險那請問部長現在這些研究有出來對於風險的部分是持相反的意見那會不會考慮停止左流右行的這個這項做法\n\n01:01.149 --> 01:16.571\n好薛委員的指教齁那我想我們所有的疫苗怎麼打要打什麼都是由ACIP齁或者是相關的一個專家齁經過很嚴謹的考的一個當然他們每一個都是應該都是這一方面的專家對我相信是專家\n\n01:17.612 --> 01:39.820\n所以應該會這樣的打法那個應該是專家所但部長我去查了一下因為左流右心的這個施打方法是在依據111年的2月25日傳染病防治諮詢會的流感防治組預防接種組的聯席會議訂定的所以是在111年的2月25號可是\n\n01:43.281 --> 02:05.308\n這些是後來美國學界在去年做出病打會增加風險的研究所以我要跟你講的你懂我的意思嗎瞭解在這部分疾管署跟ACIP的會議是不是要重新檢討雖然說有很多的這種醫學的研究或許都有正反兩面的意見但是是不是應該要重新檢討而且要把這種各種風險明確的告訴我們的國人是\n\n02:09.304 --> 02:34.579\n是的那是不是我請署長莊署長報告委員那有關這個報導的部分那容我們再去看因為每一個研究它有不同的一個證據等級那這個部分我們也會收集這些研究然後再去跟我們的ACIP的委員會來做這方面的一個對因為當初你們設定的時間點跟後來出來的研究是有落差的不過應該是說\n\n02:36.760 --> 03:00.176\n當初是這樣但是我們陸續也有看到其他是正面的一些結果你說左流右心對所以我們也會好那我就接下來就繼續講了國外目前主要討論就是有關混打兩種疫苗後老人心血管啊腦中風的病患機率提高的問題那所以日前在基隆也出現左流右心一次接種之後就有民眾不幸死亡的案例\n\n03:01.616 --> 03:16.545\n上個月在臺東也有接種5天後身亡的案例那對此疾管署你們的回應是什麼回應是說通常都是接種一小時後發生的副作用那一般就不會被認定跟疫苗相關的副作用\n\n03:17.594 --> 03:44.623\n是有關係但這樣的風險是不是存在民眾如果知道有這樣的風險而且接種後的副作用的保固卻只有一個小時部長你認為民眾對於這樣左流右行同時混打的接受度會提高還是會降低我想如果媒體這樣的消息當然會影響到接種率的意願所以以臺大意願而言在\n\n03:46.603 --> 04:14.562\n11月現在是11月11月還打得不錯11月好像就稍微降下來了所以的確我們要好好的來來瞭解來跟民眾再度你們要應該要再一次的深入去瞭解重新召開然後因為他有風險應該是要讓民眾可以明確明白自己有風險之後再自行評估他要不要參與施打\n\n04:16.584 --> 04:27.098\n我之前也幫很多疫苗受害家屬開過記者會討空到因為你們發生這件事情之後你們後續就在自己審議委員會裡面每一個案例只花了80秒的時間\n\n04:29.167 --> 04:51.140\n而且深入分析之後統整大概衛福部就是用兩大招數在迴避自己的責任一個是以特定醫學文獻指稱患者狀況與疫苗無關第二個則是扣上患者可能有潛在慢性疾病的帽子那現在這樣子的做法如果沒有審慎去面對你就可能會創造更多新冠疫苗的這種受害者然後到時候再來揮\n\n04:52.792 --> 05:03.536\n報告委員那像這一例他會做這個解剖啦所以會做進一步的查證那這個之前開會記者會很多細節就是你們就是不夠嚴謹那另外這個剛剛說這個開會80秒那個我想有些誤會因為其實我們每一個案\n\n05:09.898 --> 05:11.980\n若沒有的話可不可以請部長在這裡澄清跟保證\n\n05:39.739 --> 05:44.106\n我們冒著風險要去推這個左流右行並不是為了要為未來雙效疫苗在進行真實世界的人體試驗\n\n05:48.663 --> 06:16.119\n我相信所有的專家疫苗專家我不曉得是誰但是一定都是各全國各地的醫療相關的精英你從我擔任在醫界這麼多年我相信沒有一個醫療的專家會站在任何所以部長你保證就不會是嗎我只是要你曾經保證一下嘛保證不會因為這種原因來做這種事情好所以我還是要強調一下我是希望提高接種率我還是要強調一下我並沒有反對疫苗施打的推行\n\n06:16.559 --> 06:44.840\n但是你們應該要誠實而且非常公開透明的讓小心的告訴我們的民眾這應該是衛福部的責任而不是只是負責花錢去為了提升疫苗的打氣然後後續發生了又不管什麼副作用然後你們的整個整個審理這些疫苗受害的過程非常的狹隘讓這些人為了公衛去願意打這個疫苗可是發生問題之後卻得不到賠償\n\n06:46.428 --> 07:06.355\n另外部長這個有關衛福部的這個霸凌的事情公務體系今天也很多人都有問但是昨天賴總統終於在事發17天後在臉書上檢討這件事情他強調每一位每一名員工都是政府機關重要的議員都是人才要加強對於他們關懷跟保護\n\n07:08.576 --> 07:26.283\n那但是昨天勞動部和部長對於這個霸凌的調查報告說他有他的惡可是這樣的惡是不是普遍存在官僚體制中就像是德國哲學家漢納厄蘭所說的平庸的邪惡請問部長你認同這個這句話嗎平庸的邪惡\n\n07:30.523 --> 07:31.584\n我是很認同何部長引述漢娜二蘭所說邪惡的平庸\n\n07:45.416 --> 08:05.334\n因為那是在批判那些在納粹希特勒威權領導下社會集體的思考無能所以他是不是在影射這幾年的民進黨政府的執政我想這就用大家去解讀我就不評判了但是我要強調即使他說這個平庸的邪惡但絕對沒有目的良善的霸凌所以我想問一下上週這個\n\n08:10.205 --> 08:39.523\n部長啊上週在社群媒體的這個有關爆料機關署整備組組長也有這方面的問題請教部長啊罵人是豬啊是求好行妾目的良善情緒失控公然侮辱還是平庸的邪惡哪一種啊罵人只要是在職場上有罵人都是不對的啦不管你用什麼言辭這樣子好所以這件事情啊霸凌的事件你們是不是也認知到這件事情不能再拖有我們一個禮拜之內會你是因為行政院\n\n08:40.003 --> 09:07.251\n被行政院長罵了才趕快改還是行政院長道歉了因為你們本來說兩個月現在變一個禮拜院長是指示指示大家任何這有寫嘛以便媒體最後或者討論的是案件全部要在一周內完成調查追責責任這一件事情啊能夠帶來讓相關霸凌事件的重視跟加速的調查我想是我們在不幸中的這個事件要學到的其中一個教訓會很謹慎\n\n09:10.029 --> 09:38.180\n好再來目前我們看到整備組的異動37%是確實是偏高的但是也高於機關署的13%所以幾個調查重點要特別提醒一下我們的部長第一個這個委員會的組成要合理該避免的人士就要迴避外部委員的人數也比例也應該要提高相關人士的邀約談還有包含主管基層\n\n09:39.076 --> 09:41.809\n然後也要確保中間到底有沒有人吃案、押案\n\n09:42.990 --> 10:11.021\n那也沒有要查核然後現在時代也不是只是用公文在下命令所以這些媒介都應該要去掌握那另外我是希望這個調查請部長我也有看到你有保證應該要公正超然不要有行政瑕疵不然我們一定會追究到底對我想這個該辦就要辦公務體系不應該成為這個官場現行記的舞台應該是穩定國家發展的基石主席不好意思我還有還是有一點點問題要問\n\n10:13.919 --> 10:34.110\n好我直接跳下一題好了有關於日前食藥署發布公告將這個藥放寬六項標準標準放寬從一倍到三倍都有事實上減少農藥等化學物質在蔬果上提倡無農藥的種植都是趨勢我想問一下\n\n10:35.413 --> 10:47.646\n為什麼現在會反其道而行放寬標準你看這裡面阿福平調高2.5倍其他3倍2.8倍這些都有高於歐盟3倍高於歐盟5倍都有我想要請問一下\n\n10:48.969 --> 11:14.700\n為什麼會有這樣的原因是其他他國要求嗎還是是有其他的原因呢是不是是那個裝死請裝死跟委員報告一下因為這些農藥的放寬的標準主要的原因是我們那時候是依據農業部的要求有的是因為他在在各個地的依據農業部的要求啊那農業部為什麼要要求這件事情犧牲國人的食品安全健康\n\n11:17.074 --> 11:31.025\n過去就已經討論過草莓農要標準放寬經過激烈的討論之後並沒有通過為什麼現在又要放寬呢是因為要因應日本的要求嗎還是有誰在下指導旗要犧牲國人的健康\n\n11:32.625 --> 11:38.968\n以前就已經討論過為什麼現在要突然放寬明明就是往沒有農藥的方向去走就是趨勢那你現在放寬的背後的邏輯到底是什麼而且這也有寫日本草莓今年又新增開放了使用七種農藥\n\n11:59.315 --> 12:10.086\n我要提醒你們不應該把人民的健康把人民的食安放在風險之中所以我反對把這個放款為了守護人民的食品安全好謝謝主席好謝謝廖委員謝謝我們一定會守護\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.708,"end":8.729,"text":"謝謝主席 有請邱部長"},{"start":13.942,"end":32.518,"text":"委員好部長你好部長有關新冠跟流感混打的事宜根據美國醫學會的雜誌刊登的文獻研究發現同時接種COVID-19疫苗跟流感疫苗後中風的風險會增加"},{"start":34.652,"end":59.288,"text":"那美國食品藥物管理局的專家分析了醫療保險索賠的數據也得出相同的結論那同時CNN在去年的10月26日也報導混打會提高中風的風險那請問部長現在這些研究有出來對於風險的部分是持相反的意見那會不會考慮停止左流右行的這個這項做法"},{"start":61.149,"end":76.571,"text":"好 薛委員的指教齁 那我想我們所有的疫苗怎麼打 要打什麼 都是由ACIP齁 或者是相關的一個專家齁 經過很嚴謹的考的一個 當然他們每一個都是 應該都是這一方面的專家對 我相信是專家"},{"start":77.612,"end":99.82,"text":"所以應該會這樣的打法那個應該是專家所但部長我去查了一下因為左流右心的這個施打方法是在依據111年的2月25日傳染病防治諮詢會的流感防治組預防接種組的聯席會議訂定的所以是在111年的2月25號可是"},{"start":103.281,"end":125.308,"text":"這些是後來美國學界在去年做出病打會增加風險的研究所以我要跟你講的你懂我的意思嗎瞭解在這部分疾管署跟ACIP的會議是不是要重新檢討雖然說有很多的這種醫學的研究或許都有正反兩面的意見但是是不是應該要重新檢討而且要把這種各種風險明確的告訴我們的國人是"},{"start":129.304,"end":154.579,"text":"是的那是不是我請署長莊署長報告委員那有關這個報導的部分那容我們再去看因為每一個研究它有不同的一個證據等級那這個部分我們也會收集這些研究然後再去跟我們的ACIP的委員會來做這方面的一個對因為當初你們設定的時間點跟後來出來的研究是有落差的不過應該是說"},{"start":156.76,"end":180.176,"text":"當初是這樣但是我們陸續也有看到其他是正面的一些結果你說左流右心對所以我們也會好那我就接下來就繼續講了國外目前主要討論就是有關混打兩種疫苗後老人心血管啊腦中風的病患機率提高的問題那所以日前在基隆也出現左流右心一次接種之後就有民眾不幸死亡的案例"},{"start":181.616,"end":196.545,"text":"上個月在臺東也有接種5天後身亡的案例那對此 疾管署你們的回應是什麼回應是說通常都是接種一小時後發生的副作用那一般就不會被認定跟疫苗相關的副作用"},{"start":197.594,"end":224.623,"text":"是有關係但這樣的風險是不是存在民眾如果知道有這樣的風險而且接種後的副作用的保固卻只有一個小時部長你認為民眾對於這樣左流右行同時混打的接受度會提高還是會降低我想如果媒體這樣的消息當然會影響到接種率的意願所以以臺大意願而言在"},{"start":226.603,"end":254.562,"text":"11月現在是11月11月還打得不錯11月好像就稍微降下來了所以的確我們要好好的來來瞭解來跟民眾再度你們要應該要再一次的深入去瞭解重新召開然後因為他有風險應該是要讓民眾可以明確明白自己有風險之後再自行評估他要不要參與施打"},{"start":256.584,"end":267.098,"text":"我之前也幫很多疫苗受害家屬開過記者會討空到因為你們發生這件事情之後你們後續就在自己審議委員會裡面每一個案例只花了80秒的時間"},{"start":269.167,"end":291.14,"text":"而且深入分析之後統整大概衛福部就是用兩大招數在迴避自己的責任一個是以特定醫學文獻指稱患者狀況與疫苗無關第二個則是扣上患者可能有潛在慢性疾病的帽子那現在這樣子的做法如果沒有審慎去面對你就可能會創造更多新冠疫苗的這種受害者然後到時候再來揮"},{"start":292.792,"end":303.536,"text":"報告委員那像這一例他會做這個解剖啦所以會做進一步的查證那這個之前開會記者會很多細節就是你們就是不夠嚴謹那另外這個剛剛說這個開會80秒那個我想有些誤會因為其實我們每一個案"},{"start":309.898,"end":311.98,"text":"若沒有的話可不可以請部長在這裡澄清跟保證"},{"start":339.739,"end":344.106,"text":"我們冒著風險要去推這個左流右行並不是為了要為未來雙效疫苗在進行真實世界的人體試驗"},{"start":348.663,"end":376.119,"text":"我相信所有的專家疫苗專家我不曉得是誰但是一定都是各全國各地的醫療相關的精英你從我擔任在醫界這麼多年我相信沒有一個醫療的專家會站在任何所以部長你保證就不會是嗎我只是要你曾經保證一下嘛保證不會因為這種原因來做這種事情好所以我還是要強調一下我是希望提高接種率我還是要強調一下我並沒有反對疫苗施打的推行"},{"start":376.559,"end":404.84,"text":"但是你們應該要誠實而且非常公開透明的讓小心的告訴我們的民眾這應該是衛福部的責任而不是只是負責花錢去為了提升疫苗的打氣然後後續發生了又不管什麼副作用然後你們的整個整個審理這些疫苗受害的過程非常的狹隘讓這些人為了公衛去願意打這個疫苗可是發生問題之後卻得不到賠償"},{"start":406.428,"end":426.355,"text":"另外部長這個有關衛福部的這個霸凌的事情公務體系今天也很多人都有問但是昨天賴總統終於在事發17天後在臉書上檢討這件事情他強調每一位每一名員工都是政府機關重要的議員都是人才要加強對於他們關懷跟保護"},{"start":428.576,"end":446.283,"text":"那但是昨天勞動部和部長對於這個霸凌的調查報告說他有他的惡可是這樣的惡是不是普遍存在官僚體制中就像是德國哲學家漢納厄蘭所說的平庸的邪惡請問部長你認同這個這句話嗎平庸的邪惡"},{"start":450.523,"end":451.584,"text":"我是很認同何部長引述漢娜二蘭所說邪惡的平庸"},{"start":465.416,"end":485.334,"text":"因為那是在批判那些在納粹希特勒威權領導下社會集體的思考無能所以他是不是在影射這幾年的民進黨政府的執政我想這就用大家去解讀我就不評判了但是我要強調即使他說這個平庸的邪惡但絕對沒有目的良善的霸凌所以我想問一下上週這個"},{"start":490.205,"end":519.523,"text":"部長啊上週在社群媒體的這個有關爆料機關署整備組組長也有這方面的問題請教部長啊罵人是豬啊是求好行妾目的良善情緒失控公然侮辱還是平庸的邪惡哪一種啊罵人只要是在職場上有罵人都是不對的啦不管你用什麼言辭這樣子好所以這件事情啊霸凌的事件你們是不是也認知到這件事情不能再拖有我們一個禮拜之內會你是因為行政院"},{"start":520.003,"end":547.251,"text":"被行政院長罵了才趕快改還是行政院長道歉了因為你們本來說兩個月現在變一個禮拜院長是指示指示大家任何這有寫嘛以便媒體最後或者討論的是案件全部要在一周內完成調查追責責任這一件事情啊能夠帶來讓相關霸凌事件的重視跟加速的調查我想是我們在不幸中的這個事件要學到的其中一個教訓會很謹慎"},{"start":550.029,"end":578.18,"text":"好再來目前我們看到整備組的異動37%是確實是偏高的但是也高於機關署的13%所以幾個調查重點要特別提醒一下我們的部長第一個這個委員會的組成要合理該避免的人士就要迴避外部委員的人數也比例也應該要提高相關人士的邀約談還有包含主管基層"},{"start":579.076,"end":581.809,"text":"然後也要確保中間到底有沒有人吃案、押案"},{"start":582.99,"end":611.021,"text":"那也沒有要查核然後現在時代也不是只是用公文在下命令所以這些媒介都應該要去掌握那另外我是希望這個調查請部長我也有看到你有保證應該要公正超然不要有行政瑕疵不然我們一定會追究到底對我想這個該辦就要辦公務體系不應該成為這個官場現行記的舞台應該是穩定國家發展的基石主席不好意思我還有還是有一點點問題要問"},{"start":613.919,"end":634.11,"text":"好我直接跳下一題好了有關於日前食藥署發布公告將這個藥放寬六項標準標準放寬從一倍到三倍都有事實上減少農藥等化學物質在蔬果上提倡無農藥的種植都是趨勢我想問一下"},{"start":635.413,"end":647.646,"text":"為什麼現在會反其道而行放寬標準你看這裡面阿福平調高2.5倍其他3倍2.8倍這些都有高於歐盟3倍高於歐盟5倍都有我想要請問一下"},{"start":648.969,"end":674.7,"text":"為什麼會有這樣的原因是其他他國要求嗎還是是有其他的原因呢是不是是那個裝死請裝死跟委員報告一下因為這些農藥的放寬的標準主要的原因是我們那時候是依據農業部的要求有的是因為他在在各個地的依據農業部的要求啊那農業部為什麼要要求這件事情犧牲國人的食品安全健康"},{"start":677.074,"end":691.025,"text":"過去就已經討論過草莓農要標準放寬經過激烈的討論之後並沒有通過為什麼現在又要放寬呢是因為要因應日本的要求嗎還是有誰在下指導旗要犧牲國人的健康"},{"start":692.625,"end":698.968,"text":"以前就已經討論過為什麼現在要突然放寬明明就是往沒有農藥的方向去走就是趨勢那你現在放寬的背後的邏輯到底是什麼而且這也有寫日本草莓今年又新增開放了使用七種農藥"},{"start":719.315,"end":730.086,"text":"我要提醒你們不應該把人民的健康把人民的食安放在風險之中所以我反對把這個放款為了守護人民的食品安全好謝謝主席好謝謝廖委員謝謝我們一定會守護"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":657,"blocks":[["廖委員偉翔：（11時36分）謝謝主席，有請邱部長。"],["邱部長泰源：委員好。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，你好。部長，有關新冠跟流感混打的事宜，根據美國醫學會雜誌刊登的文獻研究發現，同時接種COVID-19疫苗跟流感疫苗後，中風的風險會增加；美國食品藥物管理局專家分析了醫療保險索賠數據也得出相同的結論；同時，CNN在去年10月26日也報導混打會提高中風的風險。請問部長，現在這些研究出來，對於風險的部分是持相反的意見，那會不會考慮停止左流右新這項作法？"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝委員的指教，我想我們所有的疫苗怎麼打、要打什麼，都是由ACIP或者是相關專家經過很嚴謹的……當然他們每一個應該都是這一方面的專家。"],["廖委員偉翔：對，我相信是專家。"],["邱部長泰源：這樣的打法應該是專家所……"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，我去查了一下，左流右新這個施打方法是依據111年2月25日傳染病防治諮詢會流感防治組、預防接種組聯席會議訂定的，所以是在111年2月25號！但這些是後來美國學界在去年做出併打會增加風險的研究，所以你懂我的意思嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：了解。"],["廖委員偉翔：這個部分疾管署跟ACIP的會議是不是要重新檢討？雖然很多醫學的研究或許都有正反兩面的意見，但是不是應該要重新檢討？而且要把各種風險明確的告訴我們國人。"],["邱部長泰源：是的，我請莊署長說一下。"],["莊署長人祥：報告委員，有關這個報導的部分，容我們再去看，因為每一個研究有不同的一個證據等級，這個部分我們也會蒐集這些研究，然後再去跟我們ACIP的委員會來做這方面的釐清。"],["廖委員偉翔：因為當初你們設定的時間點跟後來出來的研究有落差。"],["莊署長人祥：應該是說，當初是這樣，但是我們陸續也有看到其他正面的一些結果，也就是左流右新……"],["廖委員偉翔：但是也有負面的嘛，所以我……"],["莊署長人祥：對！所以我們也會蒐集一些文獻……"],["廖委員偉翔：好，那我接下來就繼續講，國外目前主要討論有關混打兩種疫苗後，老人心血管、腦中風病患機率提高的問題；日前在基隆也出現左流右新一次接種之後，就有民眾不幸死亡的案例；上個月在臺東也有接種五天後身亡的案例。對此，疾管署你們的回應是什麼？回應是說，通常都是接種一小時後發生副作用，一般就不會被認定跟疫苗相關的副作用有關係。但這樣的風險是不是存在？民眾如果知道有這樣的風險，而且接種後副作用的保固卻只有一個小時，部長，你認為民眾對於這樣左流右新同時混打的接受度會提高還是會降低？"],["邱部長泰源：我想媒體這樣的消息當然會影響到接種的意願，以臺大醫院而言，10月還打得不錯，11月好像就稍微降下來，所以的確我們要好好的來了解，再度給民眾正確的訊息。"],["廖委員偉翔：你們應該要再一次深入去了解，重新召開，因為他有風險，所以應該要讓民眾可以明確明白自己有風險之後，再自行評估他要不要參與施打。我之前也幫很多疫苗受害家屬開過記者會討公道，因為你們發生這件事情之後，後續在自己的審議委員會裡面每一個案例只花了80秒的時間，而且深入分析之後統整，大概衛福部就是用兩大招數在迴避自己的責任，一個是以特定醫學文獻指稱患者狀況與疫苗無關；第二個則是扣上患者可能有潛在慢性疾病的帽子，現在這樣子的做法如果沒有審慎去面對，你就可能會創造更多新冠疫苗的這種受害者，然後到時候再來「吵」。"],["莊署長人祥：報告委員，像這一例他會解剖，所以會進一步的查證。"],["廖委員偉翔：這個之前有開過記者會，很多細節你們就是不夠嚴謹。"],["莊署長人祥：另外剛剛你說這個開會80秒，我想有些誤會，因為其實我們每個案子都會有……"],["廖委員偉翔：這沒有誤會。"],["莊署長人祥：有3個委員，他們至少3個委員，他們會先看過……"],["廖委員偉翔：上次都已經講過了，我們在這裡就不繼續贅述，我在這個已經打過很多次了。新冠疫苗國內目前的品牌在這種混打式的就是莫德納，一直傳聞說有要雙打的原因是因為莫德納要推出雙效疫苗，也是同一支疫苗可以達到新冠跟流感的效果，是否真的有這個事情？如果沒有的話，可不可以請部長在這裡澄清跟保證，我們冒著風險要去推這個左流右新，並不是為了未來雙效疫苗進行真實世界的人體試驗？"],["邱部長泰源：我相信所有的疫苗專家，我不曉得是誰，但是一定都是全國各地醫療相關的精英，從我擔任在醫界這麼多年，我相信沒有一個醫療的專家會站在任何……"],["廖委員偉翔：所以部長你保證就不會是嗎？我只是要你澄清、保證一下。"],["邱部長泰源：保證不會因為這種原因來做這種事情。"],["廖委員偉翔：好。所以我還是要強調一下……"],["邱部長泰源：我是希望提高接種率。"],["廖委員偉翔：我還是要強調一下，我並沒有反對疫苗施打的推行，但是你們應該要誠實，而且非常公開透明的、小心的告訴我們的民眾，這應該是衛福部的責任，而不是只是負責花錢提升疫苗的打氣，後續發生的又不管什麼副作用，然後你們整個審理這些疫苗受害的過程非常狹隘，讓這些人為了公衛願意去打這個疫苗，可是發生問題之後卻得不到賠償。","另外，部長，有關衛福部的霸凌事情，公務體系今天也很多人都有問，昨天賴總統終於在事發17天後在臉書上檢討這件事情，他強調每一位、每一名員工都是政府機關重要的一員，都是人才，要加強對他們關懷跟保護，但是昨天勞動部何部長對於這個霸凌的調查報告說：她有她的惡，可是這樣的惡是不是普遍存在官僚體制中，就像是德國哲學家漢娜．鄂蘭所說的，平庸的邪惡。請問部長你認同這句話嗎？平庸的邪惡。"],["邱部長泰源：我沒有哲學家那麼了解，但是我只是堅持著像這樣的職場霸凌的情況我們一定要努力預防，不容許發生。"],["廖委員偉翔：好。部長我告訴你，我是很認同何部長引述漢娜．鄂蘭所說「邪惡的平庸」，因為那是在批判那些在納粹希特勒威權領導下社會集體的思考無能，所以他是不是在影射這幾年民進黨政府的執政，我想這就要大家去解讀，我就不評判了。但是我要強調即使他說這個是平庸的邪惡，但絕對沒有目的良善的霸凌！所以我想問一下部長，上週社群媒體爆料有關疾管署整備組組長也有這方面的問題，請教部長，罵人是豬是求好心切、目的良善、情緒失控、公然侮辱還是平庸的邪惡？是哪一種？"],["邱部長泰源：罵人，只要是在職場上有罵人都是不對的，不管你用什麼言詞。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，所以這件霸凌的事件，你們是不是也認知到這件事情不能再拖？"],["邱部長泰源：有，我們一個禮拜之內會完成完整的報告。"],["廖委員偉翔：你是因為被行政院長罵了才趕快改，還是行政院長道歉了？因為你們本來說兩個月，現在變一個禮拜。"],["邱部長泰源：院長是指示大家，這裡有寫：任何已被媒體揭露或者被討論的案件，全部要在一週內完成調查，追究責任。"],["廖委員偉翔：好我要說這件事情能夠帶來讓相關霸凌事件被重視跟加速調查，我想是我們在這個不幸事件中要學到的其中一個教訓。"],["邱部長泰源：是，我們會很謹慎的。"],["廖委員偉翔：好。再來，目前我們看到整備組的異動37%確實是偏高的，也高於疾管署的13%，所以幾個調查重點要特別提醒一下我們的部長，第一個，這個委員會的組成要合理，該避免的人士就要迴避，外部委員的人數比例也應該要提高。"],["邱部長泰源：是。"],["廖委員偉翔：然後相關人士的約談，還有包含主管啊、基層啊，也要確保中間到底有沒有人吃案、壓案，然後LINE、mail要查核，現在時代也不只是用公文在下命令，所以這些媒介都應該要去掌握。另外我是希望這個調查，我也有看到你有保證，請部長應該要公正超然，不要有行政瑕疵，不然我們一定會追究到底。"],["邱部長泰源：是，當然。"],["廖委員偉翔：我想這個該辦就要辦，公務體系不應該成為官場現形記的舞台，應該是穩定國家發展的基石。","主席，不好意思，我還有一點點問題要問，好，我直接跳下一題好了。有關於日前食藥署發布公告，將農藥放寬6項標準，標準放寬從1倍到3倍都有，事實上減少農藥等化學物質、在蔬果上提倡無農藥的種植都是趨勢，我想要問一下，為什麼現在會反其道而行，放寬標準？你看這裡面：阿扶平調高2.5倍、其他3倍、2.8倍這些都有，高於歐盟3倍、高於歐盟5倍都有，我想要請問一下為什麼會有這樣的原因，是他國要求嗎？還是有其他的原因呢？"],["邱部長泰源：我請莊署長回答。"],["莊署長聲宏：跟委員報告一下，這些農藥放寬的標準，主要的原因是我們那時候是依據農業部的要求，有的是因為它在各地的產業……"],["廖委員偉翔：依據農業部的要求喔？那農業部為什麼要要求這件事情，犧牲國人的食品安全健康？過去就已經討論過草莓農藥標準放寬，經過激烈的討論之後並沒有通過，為什麼現在又要放寬呢？是因為要因應日本的要求嗎？還是有誰在下指導棋，要犧牲國人的健康？"],["莊署長聲宏：報告委員，這件事情絕對沒有，因為我們現在有很多農藥標準有的時候是針對它的產品特性，因為它的施用或者是它的那個……"],["廖委員偉翔：以前就已經討論過，為什麼現在要突然放寬？明明往沒有農藥的方向走就是趨勢，你現在放寬背後的邏輯到底是什麼？而且這邊有寫：日本草莓今年又新增開放了使用7種農藥。我要提醒你們，不應該把人民的健康、把人民的食安放在風險之中，所以我反對把這個放寬，為了守護人民的食品安全。好，謝謝主席。"],["主席：好，謝謝廖委員"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝，我們一定會守護人民的健康，請放心。"],["主席：來。接續請黃國昌委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":140,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-10","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","林月琴","盧縣一","陳菁徽","王育敏","邱鎮軍","林淑芬","黃秀芳","廖偉翔","黃國昌","賴士葆","邱議瑩","洪孟楷","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","涂權吉","吳春城","羅智強","張雅琳","羅廷瑋","楊瓊瓔","楊曜","王正旭","陳培瑜","劉建國","陳瑩"],"page_start":55,"meetingDate":["2024-11-21"],"gazette_id":"11310501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310501_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查中華民國 114 年度中央政府總預算案關於衛生福利部主管預算（公務預算及基金）（僅詢\n答）","agenda_id":"11310501_00008"}}}