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{\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 412.111, \"end\": 412.131, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 412.131, \"end\": 412.151, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,192 --> 00:00:15,756\n領導好謝謝主席有請法務部部長還有司法院少士廳法官謝謝少士廳副法官謝謝\n\n2\n00:00:23,527 --> 00:00:45,667\n好兩位早安午安我們來看下一頁我想要直接跟部長討論我當然知道在青少年作為詐騙集團的犯罪工具這件事情法務部跟上市廳其實都有非常多的作為可是我想要跟部長也跟上市廳法官分享另外一個觀點在今年9月公共電視的公視主題秀裡面這個人我們都叫他果果\n\n3\n00:00:46,508 --> 00:01:07,037\n果果是一個教育工作者也是一個社工他最近又創了一個很棒的社工支持計畫他在節目上談到一個很重要的觀點其實也是我們長時間在教育第一線現場我們所看到的困境他說所有幸福家庭的元素幫派裡面都有老大對你有期待兄弟對你有義氣如果你以為爸爸媽媽會給你經濟資產或者是獎勵那幫派裡面更多\n\n4\n00:01:12,299 --> 00:01:27,137\n我們很難期待這些有可能進入幫派的家庭真的能夠接觸每一個犯罪的青少年也就是說我相信法務部一定知道其實有很多走上犯罪之路的孩子他們的原生家庭出現了困難而且\n\n5\n00:01:27,597 --> 00:01:46,698\n原生家庭出現困難的孩子過往我們可能以為都是中下經濟階層的但近年來有非常多中產階級的孩子也走入這個困境我認為我們在做所有防範工作都必須要回到青少年角度來看這件事情來檢視我們的政策是不是可以真的幫助小孩讓孩子不要走上這一條路\n\n6\n00:01:47,879 --> 00:02:16,460\n除了這個果果社工師之外有另外一個觀點也想要跟部長分享來下一頁我們認識一個團體叫逆風劇團他們常年在陪伴很多邊緣的孩子用戲劇展演自己的故事說出自己心裡面的苦他可能是機構的孩子可能是街頭的孩子也可能是學校的孩子那常年以來他們告訴我們很多我們聽了都很心酸的故事例如說很多孩子告訴他們他們其實身不由己因為家裡要養\n\n7\n00:02:17,481 --> 00:02:34,506\n那個身不由己他們認為往往是因為來不及來不及什麼呢來不及好好生活來不及好好念書來不及讓自己改善所以走不出來幫派一離開只能去做初工、做工地就算現在去做別的工作也很難接受一個月只有三、四萬塊\n\n8\n00:02:35,626 --> 00:03:04,645\n孩子們問說我去做詐騙集團的工作不也是一種脫貧嗎為什麼這種脫貧是不可以的呢我們當然知道這樣的認知有問題這樣的認知也不符合社會主流的規範但我們要問的是孩子們的困境從剛剛那個社工師到這個逆風劇團因為時間有限我都不再舉例我想要講的是如果我們這些大人從所謂的教育機構或是從法務機構我們想要協助這些孩子一、不要走上\n\n9\n00:03:05,766 --> 00:03:20,375\n不好的路,或從不好的路走回來,我們到底做了哪些事情?」在法務部這裡我們看到你們在宣導面你們各地檢署都積極提供師資還有資源協力提升青少年的法律資能,我不會說這是錯的\n\n10\n00:03:21,716 --> 00:03:40,463\n可是我要問,難道孩子們不知道這些行為是犯法的嗎?我想在場都沒有人不會不知道,其實孩子們也都知道但如同我說的,為什麼他們會走入這個部分?會不會所有快速的賺錢方法都寫在六法全書裡面?甚至有孩子告訴我們,幫派裡面有法律顧問在協助他們理解自己的處境跟可能會遇到的狀況\n\n11\n00:03:41,403 --> 00:04:07,377\n在防治面我們知道你們跟各部會積極推動預防少年兒童犯罪方案那在院長上任之後還宣示114到117要投入87億我非常好奇目前你們的進度走到哪裡接下來查緝面行事跟行政結合希望共同研範青少年涉入詐欺犯罪可是我們到底有沒有用不同的角度來理解為什麼孩子會走到這裡還有你們查緝完之後就把孩子丟進矯正學校\n\n12\n00:04:08,598 --> 00:04:26,059\n孩子們在矯正學校三個月到三年不等的時間出來之後整個社會你們跟教育部有相關的機制接觸這些小孩嗎?事實上是沒有的甚至我們聽到矯正老師告訴我們在割喉案之後孩子們會被快速地審理完相關的案件丟進矯正學校所以矯正學校也快要崩潰了\n\n13\n00:04:26,940 --> 00:04:46,210\n而這都是法務部必須要去面對當你們今天提出這些業務報告的時候你們其實沒有真的可以實質面對這些問題不管是教校內的孩子或是教校外還在社會上遊蕩的孩子我當然知道教育的業務有國教署跟教育部但是我也想要拜託法務部我們可以怎麼樣積極的協助這些孩子\n\n14\n00:04:47,785 --> 00:05:05,703\n所以最後我想要說我們看到今天的業務報告面對青少年的問題司法院沒有任何的想像你們就只有給我們看到這兩頁我們非常好奇在未來我們打算用114到117那個龐大的經費來做怎麼樣協助孩子的工作這個部分可不可以請部長快速回應一下\n\n15\n00:05:08,868 --> 00:05:30,697\n這個少年事件的處理這個在檢察院是沒有角色的這全部都是少年法庭少年因為他有先例權他有少年事件處理法那我們真的有除了起訴有些起訴的那個案件才會到檢察官這樣來所以我們全部都給少年法庭來處理那另外剛才那個我有提到那個矯正署這部分其實只有四間矯正學校\n\n16\n00:05:31,897 --> 00:05:54,250\n我當然知道可是我要講的是你們在防詐工作裡面你們也做了很多事情對於孩子們可是我剛剛提醒法務部我想這個防詐這部分因為這個少年有時候在學校在社會上這個我想這個不是法務部能夠主管的那當然我們也會跟各部會來到學校或到社區去我們去做一個宣導那我想\n\n17\n00:05:55,291 --> 00:06:18,586\n少年最主要的不是他不知道法律會處罰但是他沒有正常的法治觀念那我想這個是要做一個宣導就跟他做一個矯正回來你可以做很多這不是去加入詐團或加入犯罪群是你唯一的選擇你的選擇是很多的那我想這個我們可以努力再去做然後針對這些委員會關心的少年這部分把他拉回來我們不但不漏氣我們把他拉回來\n\n18\n00:06:19,926 --> 00:06:42,658\n我認為孩子們真的不是不知道其實孩子們都知道可是我要講的是剛剛部長你說了有些業務其實不歸你們主管可是我光是以矯正學校為例其實你們在跟教育部的銜接都出現了很多問題可是因為我的時間有限我想要尊重主席跟後續的委員是不是我們辦公室後續可以積極跟法務部還有相關單位討論我們如何協助這些孩子不管是已經進入體制內或是還在體制外在犯罪的路上的孩子\n\n19\n00:06:43,118 --> 00:06:52,151\n我們那個救血救衛這部我們在那個輔導還有114到117年那個計畫我們也想要看到你們目前規劃進度我們再來努力好我們再來一起討論我們辦公室再找你們開會謝謝主席謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6192\t15756\t領導好謝謝主席有請法務部部長還有司法院少士廳法官謝謝少士廳副法官謝謝\n23527\t45667\t好 兩位早安 午安 我們來看下一頁我想要直接跟部長討論我當然知道在青少年作為詐騙集團的犯罪工具這件事情法務部跟上市廳其實都有非常多的作為可是我想要跟部長也跟上市廳法官分享另外一個觀點在今年9月公共電視的公視主題秀裡面這個人我們都叫他果果\n46508\t67037\t果果是一個教育工作者也是一個社工他最近又創了一個很棒的社工支持計畫他在節目上談到一個很重要的觀點其實也是我們長時間在教育第一線現場我們所看到的困境他說所有幸福家庭的元素幫派裡面都有老大對你有期待兄弟對你有義氣如果你以為爸爸媽媽會給你經濟資產或者是獎勵那幫派裡面更多\n72299\t87137\t我們很難期待這些有可能進入幫派的家庭真的能夠接觸每一個犯罪的青少年也就是說我相信法務部一定知道其實有很多走上犯罪之路的孩子他們的原生家庭出現了困難而且\n87597\t106698\t原生家庭出現困難的孩子過往我們可能以為都是中下經濟階層的但近年來有非常多中產階級的孩子也走入這個困境我認為我們在做所有防範工作都必須要回到青少年角度來看這件事情來檢視我們的政策是不是可以真的幫助小孩讓孩子不要走上這一條路\n107879\t136460\t除了這個果果社工師之外有另外一個觀點也想要跟部長分享來下一頁我們認識一個團體叫逆風劇團他們常年在陪伴很多邊緣的孩子用戲劇展演自己的故事說出自己心裡面的苦他可能是機構的孩子可能是街頭的孩子也可能是學校的孩子那常年以來他們告訴我們很多我們聽了都很心酸的故事例如說很多孩子告訴他們他們其實身不由己因為家裡要養\n137481\t154506\t那個身不由己他們認為往往是因為來不及來不及什麼呢來不及好好生活來不及好好念書來不及讓自己改善所以走不出來幫派一離開只能去做初工、做工地就算現在去做別的工作也很難接受一個月只有三、四萬塊\n155626\t184645\t孩子們問說我去做詐騙集團的工作不也是一種脫貧嗎為什麼這種脫貧是不可以的呢我們當然知道這樣的認知有問題這樣的認知也不符合社會主流的規範但我們要問的是孩子們的困境從剛剛那個社工師到這個逆風劇團因為時間有限我都不再舉例我想要講的是如果我們這些大人從所謂的教育機構或是從法務機構我們想要協助這些孩子一、不要走上\n185766\t200375\t不好的路,或從不好的路走回來,我們到底做了哪些事情?」在法務部這裡我們看到你們在宣導面你們各地檢署都積極提供師資還有資源協力提升青少年的法律資能,我不會說這是錯的\n201716\t220463\t可是我要問,難道孩子們不知道這些行為是犯法的嗎?我想在場都沒有人不會不知道,其實孩子們也都知道但如同我說的,為什麼他們會走入這個部分?會不會所有快速的賺錢方法都寫在六法全書裡面?甚至有孩子告訴我們,幫派裡面有法律顧問在協助他們理解自己的處境跟可能會遇到的狀況\n221403\t247377\t在防治面我們知道你們跟各部會積極推動預防少年兒童犯罪方案那在院長上任之後還宣示114到117要投入87億我非常好奇目前你們的進度走到哪裡接下來查緝面行事跟行政結合希望共同研範青少年涉入詐欺犯罪可是我們到底有沒有用不同的角度來理解為什麼孩子會走到這裡還有你們查緝完之後就把孩子丟進矯正學校\n248598\t266059\t孩子們在矯正學校三個月到三年不等的時間出來之後整個社會你們跟教育部有相關的機制接觸這些小孩嗎?事實上是沒有的甚至我們聽到矯正老師告訴我們在割喉案之後孩子們會被快速地審理完相關的案件丟進矯正學校所以矯正學校也快要崩潰了\n266940\t286210\t而這都是法務部必須要去面對當你們今天提出這些業務報告的時候你們其實沒有真的可以實質面對這些問題不管是教校內的孩子或是教校外還在社會上遊蕩的孩子我當然知道教育的業務有國教署跟教育部但是我也想要拜託法務部我們可以怎麼樣積極的協助這些孩子\n287785\t305703\t所以最後我想要說我們看到今天的業務報告面對青少年的問題司法院沒有任何的想像你們就只有給我們看到這兩頁我們非常好奇在未來我們打算用114到117那個龐大的經費來做怎麼樣協助孩子的工作這個部分可不可以請部長快速回應一下\n308868\t330697\t這個少年事件的處理這個在檢察院是沒有角色的這全部都是少年法庭少年因為他有先例權他有少年事件處理法那我們真的有除了起訴有些起訴的那個案件才會到檢察官這樣來所以我們全部都給少年法庭來處理那另外剛才那個我有提到那個矯正署這部分其實只有四間矯正學校\n331897\t354250\t我當然知道可是我要講的是你們在防詐工作裡面你們也做了很多事情對於孩子們可是我剛剛提醒法務部我想這個防詐這部分因為這個少年有時候在學校在社會上這個我想這個不是法務部能夠主管的那當然我們也會跟各部會來到學校或到社區去我們去做一個宣導那我想\n355291\t378586\t少年最主要的不是他不知道法律會處罰但是他沒有正常的法治觀念那我想這個是要做一個宣導就跟他做一個矯正回來你可以做很多這不是去加入詐團或加入犯罪群是你唯一的選擇你的選擇是很多的那我想這個我們可以努力再去做然後針對這些委員會關心的少年這部分把他拉回來我們不但不漏氣我們把他拉回來\n379926\t402658\t我認為孩子們真的不是不知道其實孩子們都知道可是我要講的是剛剛部長你說了有些業務其實不歸你們主管可是我光是以矯正學校為例其實你們在跟教育部的銜接都出現了很多問題可是因為我的時間有限我想要尊重主席跟後續的委員是不是我們辦公室後續可以積極跟法務部還有相關單位討論我們如何協助這些孩子不管是已經進入體制內或是還在體制外在犯罪的路上的孩子\n403118\t412151\t我們那個救血救衛這部我們在那個輔導還有114到117年那個計畫我們也想要看到你們目前規劃進度我們再來努力好我們再來一起討論我們辦公室再找你們開會謝謝主席謝謝\n","txt":"領導好謝謝主席有請法務部部長還有司法院少士廳法官謝謝少士廳副法官謝謝\n好 兩位早安 午安 我們來看下一頁我想要直接跟部長討論我當然知道在青少年作為詐騙集團的犯罪工具這件事情法務部跟上市廳其實都有非常多的作為可是我想要跟部長也跟上市廳法官分享另外一個觀點在今年9月公共電視的公視主題秀裡面這個人我們都叫他果果\n果果是一個教育工作者也是一個社工他最近又創了一個很棒的社工支持計畫他在節目上談到一個很重要的觀點其實也是我們長時間在教育第一線現場我們所看到的困境他說所有幸福家庭的元素幫派裡面都有老大對你有期待兄弟對你有義氣如果你以為爸爸媽媽會給你經濟資產或者是獎勵那幫派裡面更多\n我們很難期待這些有可能進入幫派的家庭真的能夠接觸每一個犯罪的青少年也就是說我相信法務部一定知道其實有很多走上犯罪之路的孩子他們的原生家庭出現了困難而且\n原生家庭出現困難的孩子過往我們可能以為都是中下經濟階層的但近年來有非常多中產階級的孩子也走入這個困境我認為我們在做所有防範工作都必須要回到青少年角度來看這件事情來檢視我們的政策是不是可以真的幫助小孩讓孩子不要走上這一條路\n除了這個果果社工師之外有另外一個觀點也想要跟部長分享來下一頁我們認識一個團體叫逆風劇團他們常年在陪伴很多邊緣的孩子用戲劇展演自己的故事說出自己心裡面的苦他可能是機構的孩子可能是街頭的孩子也可能是學校的孩子那常年以來他們告訴我們很多我們聽了都很心酸的故事例如說很多孩子告訴他們他們其實身不由己因為家裡要養\n那個身不由己他們認為往往是因為來不及來不及什麼呢來不及好好生活來不及好好念書來不及讓自己改善所以走不出來幫派一離開只能去做初工、做工地就算現在去做別的工作也很難接受一個月只有三、四萬塊\n孩子們問說我去做詐騙集團的工作不也是一種脫貧嗎為什麼這種脫貧是不可以的呢我們當然知道這樣的認知有問題這樣的認知也不符合社會主流的規範但我們要問的是孩子們的困境從剛剛那個社工師到這個逆風劇團因為時間有限我都不再舉例我想要講的是如果我們這些大人從所謂的教育機構或是從法務機構我們想要協助這些孩子一、不要走上\n不好的路,或從不好的路走回來,我們到底做了哪些事情?」在法務部這裡我們看到你們在宣導面你們各地檢署都積極提供師資還有資源協力提升青少年的法律資能,我不會說這是錯的\n可是我要問,難道孩子們不知道這些行為是犯法的嗎?我想在場都沒有人不會不知道,其實孩子們也都知道但如同我說的,為什麼他們會走入這個部分?會不會所有快速的賺錢方法都寫在六法全書裡面?甚至有孩子告訴我們,幫派裡面有法律顧問在協助他們理解自己的處境跟可能會遇到的狀況\n在防治面我們知道你們跟各部會積極推動預防少年兒童犯罪方案那在院長上任之後還宣示114到117要投入87億我非常好奇目前你們的進度走到哪裡接下來查緝面行事跟行政結合希望共同研範青少年涉入詐欺犯罪可是我們到底有沒有用不同的角度來理解為什麼孩子會走到這裡還有你們查緝完之後就把孩子丟進矯正學校\n孩子們在矯正學校三個月到三年不等的時間出來之後整個社會你們跟教育部有相關的機制接觸這些小孩嗎?事實上是沒有的甚至我們聽到矯正老師告訴我們在割喉案之後孩子們會被快速地審理完相關的案件丟進矯正學校所以矯正學校也快要崩潰了\n而這都是法務部必須要去面對當你們今天提出這些業務報告的時候你們其實沒有真的可以實質面對這些問題不管是教校內的孩子或是教校外還在社會上遊蕩的孩子我當然知道教育的業務有國教署跟教育部但是我也想要拜託法務部我們可以怎麼樣積極的協助這些孩子\n所以最後我想要說我們看到今天的業務報告面對青少年的問題司法院沒有任何的想像你們就只有給我們看到這兩頁我們非常好奇在未來我們打算用114到117那個龐大的經費來做怎麼樣協助孩子的工作這個部分可不可以請部長快速回應一下\n這個少年事件的處理這個在檢察院是沒有角色的這全部都是少年法庭少年因為他有先例權他有少年事件處理法那我們真的有除了起訴有些起訴的那個案件才會到檢察官這樣來所以我們全部都給少年法庭來處理那另外剛才那個我有提到那個矯正署這部分其實只有四間矯正學校\n我當然知道可是我要講的是你們在防詐工作裡面你們也做了很多事情對於孩子們可是我剛剛提醒法務部我想這個防詐這部分因為這個少年有時候在學校在社會上這個我想這個不是法務部能夠主管的那當然我們也會跟各部會來到學校或到社區去我們去做一個宣導那我想\n少年最主要的不是他不知道法律會處罰但是他沒有正常的法治觀念那我想這個是要做一個宣導就跟他做一個矯正回來你可以做很多這不是去加入詐團或加入犯罪群是你唯一的選擇你的選擇是很多的那我想這個我們可以努力再去做然後針對這些委員會關心的少年這部分把他拉回來我們不但不漏氣我們把他拉回來\n我認為孩子們真的不是不知道其實孩子們都知道可是我要講的是剛剛部長你說了有些業務其實不歸你們主管可是我光是以矯正學校為例其實你們在跟教育部的銜接都出現了很多問題可是因為我的時間有限我想要尊重主席跟後續的委員是不是我們辦公室後續可以積極跟法務部還有相關單位討論我們如何協助這些孩子不管是已經進入體制內或是還在體制外在犯罪的路上的孩子\n我們那個救血救衛這部我們在那個輔導還有114到117年那個計畫我們也想要看到你們目前規劃進度我們再來努力好我們再來一起討論我們辦公室再找你們開會謝謝主席謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.192 --> 00:15.756\n領導好謝謝主席有請法務部部長還有司法院少士廳法官謝謝少士廳副法官謝謝\n\n00:23.527 --> 00:45.667\n好兩位早安午安我們來看下一頁我想要直接跟部長討論我當然知道在青少年作為詐騙集團的犯罪工具這件事情法務部跟上市廳其實都有非常多的作為可是我想要跟部長也跟上市廳法官分享另外一個觀點在今年9月公共電視的公視主題秀裡面這個人我們都叫他果果\n\n00:46.508 --> 01:07.037\n果果是一個教育工作者也是一個社工他最近又創了一個很棒的社工支持計畫他在節目上談到一個很重要的觀點其實也是我們長時間在教育第一線現場我們所看到的困境他說所有幸福家庭的元素幫派裡面都有老大對你有期待兄弟對你有義氣如果你以為爸爸媽媽會給你經濟資產或者是獎勵那幫派裡面更多\n\n01:12.299 --> 01:27.137\n我們很難期待這些有可能進入幫派的家庭真的能夠接觸每一個犯罪的青少年也就是說我相信法務部一定知道其實有很多走上犯罪之路的孩子他們的原生家庭出現了困難而且\n\n01:27.597 --> 01:46.698\n原生家庭出現困難的孩子過往我們可能以為都是中下經濟階層的但近年來有非常多中產階級的孩子也走入這個困境我認為我們在做所有防範工作都必須要回到青少年角度來看這件事情來檢視我們的政策是不是可以真的幫助小孩讓孩子不要走上這一條路\n\n01:47.879 --> 02:16.460\n除了這個果果社工師之外有另外一個觀點也想要跟部長分享來下一頁我們認識一個團體叫逆風劇團他們常年在陪伴很多邊緣的孩子用戲劇展演自己的故事說出自己心裡面的苦他可能是機構的孩子可能是街頭的孩子也可能是學校的孩子那常年以來他們告訴我們很多我們聽了都很心酸的故事例如說很多孩子告訴他們他們其實身不由己因為家裡要養\n\n02:17.481 --> 02:34.506\n那個身不由己他們認為往往是因為來不及來不及什麼呢來不及好好生活來不及好好念書來不及讓自己改善所以走不出來幫派一離開只能去做初工、做工地就算現在去做別的工作也很難接受一個月只有三、四萬塊\n\n02:35.626 --> 03:04.645\n孩子們問說我去做詐騙集團的工作不也是一種脫貧嗎為什麼這種脫貧是不可以的呢我們當然知道這樣的認知有問題這樣的認知也不符合社會主流的規範但我們要問的是孩子們的困境從剛剛那個社工師到這個逆風劇團因為時間有限我都不再舉例我想要講的是如果我們這些大人從所謂的教育機構或是從法務機構我們想要協助這些孩子一、不要走上\n\n03:05.766 --> 03:20.375\n不好的路,或從不好的路走回來,我們到底做了哪些事情?」在法務部這裡我們看到你們在宣導面你們各地檢署都積極提供師資還有資源協力提升青少年的法律資能,我不會說這是錯的\n\n03:21.716 --> 03:40.463\n可是我要問,難道孩子們不知道這些行為是犯法的嗎?我想在場都沒有人不會不知道,其實孩子們也都知道但如同我說的,為什麼他們會走入這個部分?會不會所有快速的賺錢方法都寫在六法全書裡面?甚至有孩子告訴我們,幫派裡面有法律顧問在協助他們理解自己的處境跟可能會遇到的狀況\n\n03:41.403 --> 04:07.377\n在防治面我們知道你們跟各部會積極推動預防少年兒童犯罪方案那在院長上任之後還宣示114到117要投入87億我非常好奇目前你們的進度走到哪裡接下來查緝面行事跟行政結合希望共同研範青少年涉入詐欺犯罪可是我們到底有沒有用不同的角度來理解為什麼孩子會走到這裡還有你們查緝完之後就把孩子丟進矯正學校\n\n04:08.598 --> 04:26.059\n孩子們在矯正學校三個月到三年不等的時間出來之後整個社會你們跟教育部有相關的機制接觸這些小孩嗎?事實上是沒有的甚至我們聽到矯正老師告訴我們在割喉案之後孩子們會被快速地審理完相關的案件丟進矯正學校所以矯正學校也快要崩潰了\n\n04:26.940 --> 04:46.210\n而這都是法務部必須要去面對當你們今天提出這些業務報告的時候你們其實沒有真的可以實質面對這些問題不管是教校內的孩子或是教校外還在社會上遊蕩的孩子我當然知道教育的業務有國教署跟教育部但是我也想要拜託法務部我們可以怎麼樣積極的協助這些孩子\n\n04:47.785 --> 05:05.703\n所以最後我想要說我們看到今天的業務報告面對青少年的問題司法院沒有任何的想像你們就只有給我們看到這兩頁我們非常好奇在未來我們打算用114到117那個龐大的經費來做怎麼樣協助孩子的工作這個部分可不可以請部長快速回應一下\n\n05:08.868 --> 05:30.697\n這個少年事件的處理這個在檢察院是沒有角色的這全部都是少年法庭少年因為他有先例權他有少年事件處理法那我們真的有除了起訴有些起訴的那個案件才會到檢察官這樣來所以我們全部都給少年法庭來處理那另外剛才那個我有提到那個矯正署這部分其實只有四間矯正學校\n\n05:31.897 --> 05:54.250\n我當然知道可是我要講的是你們在防詐工作裡面你們也做了很多事情對於孩子們可是我剛剛提醒法務部我想這個防詐這部分因為這個少年有時候在學校在社會上這個我想這個不是法務部能夠主管的那當然我們也會跟各部會來到學校或到社區去我們去做一個宣導那我想\n\n05:55.291 --> 06:18.586\n少年最主要的不是他不知道法律會處罰但是他沒有正常的法治觀念那我想這個是要做一個宣導就跟他做一個矯正回來你可以做很多這不是去加入詐團或加入犯罪群是你唯一的選擇你的選擇是很多的那我想這個我們可以努力再去做然後針對這些委員會關心的少年這部分把他拉回來我們不但不漏氣我們把他拉回來\n\n06:19.926 --> 06:42.658\n我認為孩子們真的不是不知道其實孩子們都知道可是我要講的是剛剛部長你說了有些業務其實不歸你們主管可是我光是以矯正學校為例其實你們在跟教育部的銜接都出現了很多問題可是因為我的時間有限我想要尊重主席跟後續的委員是不是我們辦公室後續可以積極跟法務部還有相關單位討論我們如何協助這些孩子不管是已經進入體制內或是還在體制外在犯罪的路上的孩子\n\n06:43.118 --> 06:52.151\n我們那個救血救衛這部我們在那個輔導還有114到117年那個計畫我們也想要看到你們目前規劃進度我們再來努力好我們再來一起討論我們辦公室再找你們開會謝謝主席謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.192,"end":15.756,"text":"領導好謝謝主席有請法務部部長還有司法院少士廳法官謝謝少士廳副法官謝謝"},{"start":23.527,"end":45.667,"text":"好 兩位早安 午安 我們來看下一頁我想要直接跟部長討論我當然知道在青少年作為詐騙集團的犯罪工具這件事情法務部跟上市廳其實都有非常多的作為可是我想要跟部長也跟上市廳法官分享另外一個觀點在今年9月公共電視的公視主題秀裡面這個人我們都叫他果果"},{"start":46.508,"end":67.037,"text":"果果是一個教育工作者也是一個社工他最近又創了一個很棒的社工支持計畫他在節目上談到一個很重要的觀點其實也是我們長時間在教育第一線現場我們所看到的困境他說所有幸福家庭的元素幫派裡面都有老大對你有期待兄弟對你有義氣如果你以為爸爸媽媽會給你經濟資產或者是獎勵那幫派裡面更多"},{"start":72.299,"end":87.137,"text":"我們很難期待這些有可能進入幫派的家庭真的能夠接觸每一個犯罪的青少年也就是說我相信法務部一定知道其實有很多走上犯罪之路的孩子他們的原生家庭出現了困難而且"},{"start":87.597,"end":106.698,"text":"原生家庭出現困難的孩子過往我們可能以為都是中下經濟階層的但近年來有非常多中產階級的孩子也走入這個困境我認為我們在做所有防範工作都必須要回到青少年角度來看這件事情來檢視我們的政策是不是可以真的幫助小孩讓孩子不要走上這一條路"},{"start":107.879,"end":136.46,"text":"除了這個果果社工師之外有另外一個觀點也想要跟部長分享來下一頁我們認識一個團體叫逆風劇團他們常年在陪伴很多邊緣的孩子用戲劇展演自己的故事說出自己心裡面的苦他可能是機構的孩子可能是街頭的孩子也可能是學校的孩子那常年以來他們告訴我們很多我們聽了都很心酸的故事例如說很多孩子告訴他們他們其實身不由己因為家裡要養"},{"start":137.481,"end":154.506,"text":"那個身不由己他們認為往往是因為來不及來不及什麼呢來不及好好生活來不及好好念書來不及讓自己改善所以走不出來幫派一離開只能去做初工、做工地就算現在去做別的工作也很難接受一個月只有三、四萬塊"},{"start":155.626,"end":184.645,"text":"孩子們問說我去做詐騙集團的工作不也是一種脫貧嗎為什麼這種脫貧是不可以的呢我們當然知道這樣的認知有問題這樣的認知也不符合社會主流的規範但我們要問的是孩子們的困境從剛剛那個社工師到這個逆風劇團因為時間有限我都不再舉例我想要講的是如果我們這些大人從所謂的教育機構或是從法務機構我們想要協助這些孩子一、不要走上"},{"start":185.766,"end":200.375,"text":"不好的路,或從不好的路走回來,我們到底做了哪些事情?」在法務部這裡我們看到你們在宣導面你們各地檢署都積極提供師資還有資源協力提升青少年的法律資能,我不會說這是錯的"},{"start":201.716,"end":220.463,"text":"可是我要問,難道孩子們不知道這些行為是犯法的嗎?我想在場都沒有人不會不知道,其實孩子們也都知道但如同我說的,為什麼他們會走入這個部分?會不會所有快速的賺錢方法都寫在六法全書裡面?甚至有孩子告訴我們,幫派裡面有法律顧問在協助他們理解自己的處境跟可能會遇到的狀況"},{"start":221.403,"end":247.377,"text":"在防治面我們知道你們跟各部會積極推動預防少年兒童犯罪方案那在院長上任之後還宣示114到117要投入87億我非常好奇目前你們的進度走到哪裡接下來查緝面行事跟行政結合希望共同研範青少年涉入詐欺犯罪可是我們到底有沒有用不同的角度來理解為什麼孩子會走到這裡還有你們查緝完之後就把孩子丟進矯正學校"},{"start":248.598,"end":266.059,"text":"孩子們在矯正學校三個月到三年不等的時間出來之後整個社會你們跟教育部有相關的機制接觸這些小孩嗎?事實上是沒有的甚至我們聽到矯正老師告訴我們在割喉案之後孩子們會被快速地審理完相關的案件丟進矯正學校所以矯正學校也快要崩潰了"},{"start":266.94,"end":286.21,"text":"而這都是法務部必須要去面對當你們今天提出這些業務報告的時候你們其實沒有真的可以實質面對這些問題不管是教校內的孩子或是教校外還在社會上遊蕩的孩子我當然知道教育的業務有國教署跟教育部但是我也想要拜託法務部我們可以怎麼樣積極的協助這些孩子"},{"start":287.785,"end":305.703,"text":"所以最後我想要說我們看到今天的業務報告面對青少年的問題司法院沒有任何的想像你們就只有給我們看到這兩頁我們非常好奇在未來我們打算用114到117那個龐大的經費來做怎麼樣協助孩子的工作這個部分可不可以請部長快速回應一下"},{"start":308.868,"end":330.697,"text":"這個少年事件的處理這個在檢察院是沒有角色的這全部都是少年法庭少年因為他有先例權他有少年事件處理法那我們真的有除了起訴有些起訴的那個案件才會到檢察官這樣來所以我們全部都給少年法庭來處理那另外剛才那個我有提到那個矯正署這部分其實只有四間矯正學校"},{"start":331.897,"end":354.25,"text":"我當然知道可是我要講的是你們在防詐工作裡面你們也做了很多事情對於孩子們可是我剛剛提醒法務部我想這個防詐這部分因為這個少年有時候在學校在社會上這個我想這個不是法務部能夠主管的那當然我們也會跟各部會來到學校或到社區去我們去做一個宣導那我想"},{"start":355.291,"end":378.586,"text":"少年最主要的不是他不知道法律會處罰但是他沒有正常的法治觀念那我想這個是要做一個宣導就跟他做一個矯正回來你可以做很多這不是去加入詐團或加入犯罪群是你唯一的選擇你的選擇是很多的那我想這個我們可以努力再去做然後針對這些委員會關心的少年這部分把他拉回來我們不但不漏氣我們把他拉回來"},{"start":379.926,"end":402.658,"text":"我認為孩子們真的不是不知道其實孩子們都知道可是我要講的是剛剛部長你說了有些業務其實不歸你們主管可是我光是以矯正學校為例其實你們在跟教育部的銜接都出現了很多問題可是因為我的時間有限我想要尊重主席跟後續的委員是不是我們辦公室後續可以積極跟法務部還有相關單位討論我們如何協助這些孩子不管是已經進入體制內或是還在體制外在犯罪的路上的孩子"},{"start":403.118,"end":412.151,"text":"我們那個救血救衛這部我們在那個輔導還有114到117年那個計畫我們也想要看到你們目前規劃進度我們再來努力好我們再來一起討論我們辦公室再找你們開會謝謝主席謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1207,"blocks":[["陳委員培瑜：（11時59分）謝謝主席，有請法務部部長，還有司法院少事廳法官，謝謝。","兩位午安，我們來看下一頁。我想要直接跟部長討論，我當然知道在青少年作為詐騙集團的犯罪工具這件事情，法務部跟少事廳其實都有非常多的作為，可是我想要跟部長也跟少事廳法官分享另外一個觀點。在今年9月公共電視的公視主題秀裡面，這個人我們都叫他「國國」，國國是一個教育工作者，也是一個社工，他最近又創了一個很棒的社工支持計畫。他在節目上談到一個很重要的觀點，其實也是我們長時間在教育第一線現場所看到的困境。他說所有幸福家庭的元素，幫派裡面都有，老大對你有期待，兄弟對你有義氣，如果你以為爸爸媽媽會給你經濟資產或者是獎勵，那幫派裡面更多，我們很難期待這些有可能進入幫派的家庭真的能夠接住每一個犯罪的青少年。也就是說，我相信法務部一定知道，其實有很多走上犯罪之路的孩子，他們的原生家庭出現了困難，而且原生家庭出現困難的孩子，過往我們可能以為都是中下經濟階層的，但近年來有非常多中產階級的孩子也走入這個困境，我認為我們在做所有防範工作都必須要回到青少年角度來看這件事情，來檢視我們的政策，是不是可以真的幫助小孩讓孩子不要走上這條路。","除了上述這個「國國」社工師之外，有另外一個觀點也想要跟部長分享。我們看下一頁。我們認識一個團體叫「逆風劇團」，他們長年在陪伴很多邊緣的孩子，用戲劇展演自己的故事，說出自己心裡面的苦，他可能是機構的孩子，可能是街頭的孩子，也可能是學校的孩子。長年以來他們告訴我們很多，我們聽了都很心酸的故事，例如很多孩子告訴他們，他們其實身不由己，因為說有家裡要養。那個「身不由己」，他們認為往往是因為來不及，來不及什麼呢？來不及好好生活，來不及好好念書，來不及讓自己改善，所以走不出來幫派，一離開只能去做粗工，做工地，就算現在去做別的工作，也很難接受一個月只有三、四萬塊。孩子們問說：我去做詐騙集團的工作不也是一種脫貧嗎？為什麼這種脫貧是不可以的呢？我們當然知道這樣的認知有問題，這樣的認知也不符合社會主流的規範，但我們要問的是孩子們的困境，從剛剛那個社工師到這個逆風劇團，因為時間有限，我就不再舉例。","我想要講的是，如果我們這些大人從所謂的教育機構或是從法務機構，我們想要協助這些孩子第一不要走上不好的路，第二或者要從不好的路要走回來。我們到底做了哪些事情？我們看法務部的宣導面，你們各地檢署都積極提供師資還有資源，協力提升青少年的法律知能，我不會說這是錯的。可是我要問，難道孩子們不知道這些行為是犯法的嗎？我想在場都沒有人不會不知道，其實孩子們也都知道，但如同我說的，為什麼他們會走入這個部分？會不會所有快速的賺錢方法都寫在六法全書裡面？甚至有孩子告訴我們幫派裡面有法律顧問在協助他們理解自己的處境跟可能會遇到的狀況。","在防治面，我們知道你們跟各部會積極推動預防少年兒童犯罪方案，在院長上任之後還宣示114年到117年要投入87億，我非常好奇目前你們的進度走到哪裡。接下來談及查緝面，刑事跟行政結合，希望共同防範青少年涉入詐欺犯罪，可是我們到底有沒有用不同的角度來理解為什麼孩子會走到這裡？還有你們查緝完之後，就把孩子丟進矯正學校，孩子們在矯正學校三個月到三年不等的時間，他們出來之後，整個社會你們跟教育部有相關的機制接住這些小孩嗎？事實上是沒有的，甚至我們聽到矯正老師告訴我們，在割喉案之後，孩子們會被快速的審理完相關的案件，丟進矯正學校，所以矯正學校也快要崩潰了，而這都是法務部必須要去面對。當你們今天提出這些業務報告的時候，你們其實沒有真的可以實質面對這些問題，不管是矯校內的孩子或是矯校外，或是還在社會上遊蕩的孩子。我當然知道教育的業務有國教署跟教育部，但是我也想要拜託法務部，我們可以怎麼樣積極的協助這些孩子？","最後我想要說，我們看到今天的業務報告面對青少年的問題，司法院沒有任何的想像，你們就只有給我們看到這兩頁，我們非常好奇在未來我們打算用114年到117年那個龐大的經費來做怎麼樣協助孩子的工作，這個部分可不可以請部長快速回應一下？"],["鄭部長銘謙：有關少年事件的處理，這在檢察署是沒有角色的，這全部都是少年法庭，因為他有先議權，有少年事件處理法，我們真的除了起訴，有些起訴的案件才會到檢察官這裡來，所以我們全部都給少年法庭來處理。","另外剛才委員有提到矯正署這部分，只有四間矯正學校。"],["陳委員培瑜：我知道，我當然知道，可是我要講的是你們在防詐工作裡面，你們對於孩子們做了很多事情，可是我剛剛提醒法務部……"],["鄭部長銘謙：防詐這部分，因為少年有時候在學校或是在社會上，我想這個不是法務部能夠主管的，當然我們也會跟各部會到學校或到社區去做宣導，我想少年不是他不知道法律會處罰，但是他沒有正常的法治觀念，我想這個是要做宣導，就跟他矯正回來，你可以做很多，這不是去加入詐團或加入犯罪，不是你唯一的選擇，你的選擇是很多的。這個我們可以努力再去做，針對這些委員關心的少年，我們把他拉回來，我們不但不漏接，我們把他拉回來。"],["陳委員培瑜：我認為孩子們真的不是不知道，其實孩子們都知道，可是我要講的是，剛剛部長你說了有些業務其實不歸你們主管，可是我光是以矯正學校為例，其實你們在跟教育部的銜接都出現了很多問題，因為我的時間有限，我想要尊重主席跟後續的委員，是不是我們辦公室後續可以積極的跟法務部還有相關單位討論，我們如何協助這些孩子，不管是已經進入體制內或是還在體制外這些在犯罪路上的孩子，好不好？"],["鄭部長銘謙：實際上，我們對就學就業這部分的輔導，還有家庭的部分……"],["陳委員培瑜：還有114到117年那個計畫，我們也想要看到你們目前規劃的進度。"],["鄭部長銘謙：我們再來努力。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，我們再來一起討論，我們辦公室會再找你們開會，謝謝主席，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝陳委員，我很喜歡你那一句，就是賺錢的方式都寫在六法全書裡面，所以維護社會治安非常重要。謝謝。","下一位請林淑芬委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":312,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-36-15","speakers":["吳宗憲","黃國昌","謝龍介","林思銘","莊瑞雄","陳俊宇","鍾佳濱","吳思瑤","徐巧芯","羅智強","陳培瑜","林淑芬","翁曉玲","洪孟楷","麥玉珍","楊瓊瓔","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","李坤城","沈發惠","傅崐萁"],"page_start":215,"meetingDate":["2024-11-21"],"gazette_id":"11310401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310401_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請司法院、法務部部長、內政部部長、內政部警政署署長、內政部移民署署長、勞動部、數位\n發展部、國家通訊傳播委員會、行政院打擊詐欺指揮中心、金融監督管理委員會率所屬相關單位\n列席就「如何遏止移工及青少年淪為詐騙集團工具，及打詐四法施行後相關子法及配套措施進度\n與具體成效之檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"11310401_00004"}}}