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\"end\": 365.855, \"text\": \"以後我們應該也會希望他在智慧國會的金額的這一塊能夠做一個精進,不然的話這個確實會引起一些質疑,我想我們會再跟美方就這個智慧國會的金額這個部分應該要在智慧國會之前就應該要做一個相當的一個精算這樣子\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 339.891, \"end\": 340.031, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 340.031, \"end\": 340.192, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 340.192, \"end\": 341.132, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 341.132, \"end\": 342.093, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 342.093, \"end\": 342.253, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 342.253, \"end\": 342.414, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 342.414, \"end\": 342.554, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 342.554, \"end\": 342.754, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"智\", \"start\": 342.754, \"end\": 342.894, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"慧\", \"start\": 342.894, \"end\": 343.314, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": 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0.963}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 365.835, \"end\": 365.855, \"score\": 0.041}]}, {\"start\": 366.595, \"end\": 392.208, \"text\": \"另外就是我們希望站位式跟國防採購式在這個回路的環節過程中間要協助軍種那麼尤其是配合美國的駐美軍事代表團的軍售小組在這個裡面過程中間如果有任何的這個產生的數量上或是價錢上的誤差及時回饋讓我們這邊有一個育嬰的時間師長您這邊是不是可以做一個普通說明\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"另\", \"start\": 366.595, \"end\": 366.735, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 366.735, \"end\": 366.895, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 366.895, \"end\": 367.015, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 367.015, \"end\": 367.155, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 367.155, \"end\": 367.376, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 367.376, \"end\": 367.456, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 367.456, \"end\": 367.676, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"站\", \"start\": 367.676, \"end\": 367.836, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 367.836, \"end\": 368.016, \"score\": 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\"部\", \"start\": 462.049, \"end\": 462.069, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 462.069, \"end\": 462.089, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,549 --> 00:00:03,810\n主席有請部長是陳委員部長是不是也同時請這個站櫃司長跟陸軍參謀長因為軍售案對我們國家來講是非常重要的一個作業流程也代表\n\n2\n00:00:26,158 --> 00:00:44,113\n美國對我們的防衛能力的支持但是在這個作業的過程中間我相信台美雙方這個作業流程的協調是非常重要的我特別這邊給大家報告一個真正的作業流程我們的報價包括初估報價就是ROM價錢\n\n3\n00:00:45,174 --> 00:00:46,054\n陳永康發言委員\n\n4\n00:01:12,868 --> 00:01:20,677\n軍售價格的結構包括各種行政作業費、行政管理費、契約管理費、包裝處理費、運輸費用\n\n5\n00:01:23,447 --> 00:01:23,587\n陳永康議員\n\n6\n00:01:51,226 --> 00:02:20,434\n通知國會的價錢提高了但是又回到DSEA那又再經過軍種再回到我們這邊來談的時候價錢就降低了我認為這個一方面美方的內部要做檢討那另外就是在開這個PMR專案管理會議的時候我們可以跟美國的DSEA提出這個東西請他要改進我們相信美方的作業流程但中間有的時候還會一些犯錯就是說疏忽了\n\n7\n00:02:20,894 --> 00:02:23,537\n價錢落差,從前面拿到LOR到簽署發價書,雖然經過一個大loop回到DSEA以後價錢又減下來了。\n\n8\n00:02:36,809 --> 00:02:54,664\n但我們編列獵鴞理論上我們支持防衛作戰要善用這個經費那在檢討過程中間我們提出下面的建議你看看這個過程美方公告是115這是通知國會但是從國會同意了又回到DSEA就剩55了\n\n9\n00:02:56,478 --> 00:03:23,076\n我們現在目前是建議維持編列115但是彈簧刀剛剛講了原先的300型的那個現在用比較新的形式了那價錢跟原先有落差那現在新增600了那麼這個數量的價錢我認為是在這個專案裡面是可以做討論溝通所以你採購的數量並不是等於差價除以它的單價因為它的整個管理經費跟作業流又不一樣了\n\n10\n00:03:23,536 --> 00:03:46,415\n所以發價書是要修正的,預算我們在角度上是支持,但最後還考慮一個,我們現在看到的這個結果是因為報給國會的價錢過高,但是同意以後DSA到軍種再回過來的差,那現在有一點點好像是倒果為因,我們未來看看作虛文件要有備案。\n\n11\n00:03:47,588 --> 00:03:47,628\n主席\n\n12\n00:04:05,221 --> 00:04:30,677\n彈簧刀300會不會變成消失性商源希望美方要釐定確保我們買的這個第二型的300型能夠有效使用軍購報價完成精算後再正式編列我們這一次我們是支持這個錢有效的運用但是我們希望在後續專案裡面的管理上面尤其是跟DSEA的確認因為剛才那個流程\n\n13\n00:04:31,357 --> 00:04:32,477\n部長您有什麼回答?\n\n14\n00:05:00,862 --> 00:05:14,052\n是,我想就這個部分當然因為他自衛國會的金額跟原來發家書後面的這個金額確實差距過大那所以我想在當時我們就\n\n15\n00:05:14,738 --> 00:05:37,730\n已經這個要求美方要說明這個價差的這個原因那所以剛剛委員也指導了應該我們要分項分項去要求做一個詳細的說明那我想這個部分最後當然有大幅的一個降低那顯示這個當時美國在這個做智慧國會的這個金額的時候\n\n16\n00:05:39,891 --> 00:06:05,855\n以後我們應該也會希望他在智慧國會的金額的這一塊能夠做一個精進,不然的話這個確實會引起一些質疑,我想我們會再跟美方就這個智慧國會的金額這個部分應該要在智慧國會之前就應該要做一個相當的一個精算這樣子\n\n17\n00:06:06,595 --> 00:06:32,208\n另外就是我們希望站位式跟國防採購式在這個回路的環節過程中間要協助軍種那麼尤其是配合美國的駐美軍事代表團的軍售小組在這個裡面過程中間如果有任何的這個產生的數量上或是價錢上的誤差及時回饋讓我們這邊有一個育嬰的時間師長您這邊是不是可以做一個普通說明\n\n18\n00:06:32,828 --> 00:06:53,380\n報告委員,陳如委員剛所指導,事實上這個案子從一開始執行一直到智慧國會發電價差過大,站規師都是全程參與,同時也協助軍種。那後續我們還是會繼續協助軍種在接裝以及後續的申購規劃上面去做一個最完善的安排。\n\n19\n00:06:54,734 --> 00:07:16,235\n另外就是這個在採購這個裝備另外就是包括人員訓練這個再次在細項裡面的準則叫飯我們希望料配件能夠先獲得準則叫飯能夠提早中文化合格的訓練人員及早回來這樣子裝備到的時候就是戰力可以發揮參謀長您這邊做一下說明\n\n20\n00:07:20,598 --> 00:07:42,089\n報告委員：如您的指導：有關於不管是赴美訓練：或是在台協訓：還有相關的這個準則紀念的獲得：在這個：也就是現在在跟：美方簽約的時候：這都是我們在依據：原例以往軍售案：軍購案裡面的這個經驗：我們正在管辦的：那也謝謝委員的指教好謝謝謝謝各位部長謝謝你\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n549\t3810\t主席有請部長是陳委員部長是不是也同時請這個站櫃司長跟陸軍參謀長因為軍售案對我們國家來講是非常重要的一個作業流程也代表\n26158\t44113\t美國對我們的防衛能力的支持但是在這個作業的過程中間我相信台美雙方這個作業流程的協調是非常重要的我特別這邊給大家報告一個真正的作業流程我們的報價包括初估報價就是ROM價錢\n45174\t46054\t陳永康 發言委員\n72868\t80677\t軍售價格的結構包括各種行政作業費、行政管理費、契約管理費、包裝處理費、運輸費用\n83447\t83587\t陳永康議員\n111226\t140434\t通知國會的價錢提高了但是又回到DSEA那又再經過軍種再回到我們這邊來談的時候價錢就降低了我認為這個一方面美方的內部要做檢討那另外就是在開這個PMR專案管理會議的時候我們可以跟美國的DSEA提出這個東西請他要改進我們相信美方的作業流程但中間有的時候還會一些犯錯就是說疏忽了\n140894\t143537\t價錢落差,從前面拿到LOR到簽署發價書,雖然經過一個大loop回到DSEA以後價錢又減下來了。\n156809\t174664\t但我們編列獵鴞理論上我們支持防衛作戰要善用這個經費那在檢討過程中間我們提出下面的建議你看看這個過程美方公告是115這是通知國會但是從國會同意了又回到DSEA就剩55了\n176478\t203076\t我們現在目前是建議維持編列115但是彈簧刀剛剛講了原先的300型的那個現在用比較新的形式了那價錢跟原先有落差那現在新增600了那麼這個數量的價錢我認為是在這個專案裡面是可以做討論溝通所以你採購的數量並不是等於差價除以它的單價因為它的整個管理經費跟作業流又不一樣了\n203536\t226415\t所以發價書是要修正的,預算我們在角度上是支持,但最後還考慮一個,我們現在看到的這個結果是因為報給國會的價錢過高,但是同意以後DSA到軍種再回過來的差,那現在有一點點好像是倒果為因,我們未來看看作虛文件要有備案。\n227588\t227628\t主席\n245221\t270677\t彈簧刀300會不會變成消失性商源希望美方要釐定確保我們買的這個第二型的300型能夠有效使用軍購報價完成精算後再正式編列我們這一次我們是支持這個錢有效的運用但是我們希望在後續專案裡面的管理上面尤其是跟DSEA的確認因為剛才那個流程\n271357\t272477\t部長您有什麼回答?\n300862\t314052\t是,我想就這個部分當然因為他自衛國會的金額跟原來發家書後面的這個金額確實差距過大那所以我想在當時我們就\n314738\t337730\t已經這個要求美方要說明這個價差的這個原因那所以剛剛委員也指導了應該我們要分項分項去要求做一個詳細的說明那我想這個部分最後當然有大幅的一個降低那顯示這個當時美國在這個做智慧國會的這個金額的時候\n339891\t365855\t以後我們應該也會希望他在智慧國會的金額的這一塊能夠做一個精進,不然的話這個確實會引起一些質疑,我想我們會再跟美方就這個智慧國會的金額這個部分應該要在智慧國會之前就應該要做一個相當的一個精算這樣子\n366595\t392208\t另外就是我們希望站位式跟國防採購式在這個回路的環節過程中間要協助軍種那麼尤其是配合美國的駐美軍事代表團的軍售小組在這個裡面過程中間如果有任何的這個產生的數量上或是價錢上的誤差及時回饋讓我們這邊有一個育嬰的時間師長您這邊是不是可以做一個普通說明\n392828\t413380\t報告委員,陳如委員剛所指導,事實上這個案子從一開始執行一直到智慧國會發電價差過大,站規師都是全程參與,同時也協助軍種。那後續我們還是會繼續協助軍種在接裝以及後續的申購規劃上面去做一個最完善的安排。\n414734\t436235\t另外就是這個在採購這個裝備另外就是包括人員訓練這個再次在細項裡面的準則叫飯我們希望料配件能夠先獲得準則叫飯能夠提早中文化合格的訓練人員及早回來這樣子裝備到的時候就是戰力可以發揮參謀長您這邊做一下說明\n440598\t462089\t報告委員：如您的指導：有關於不管是赴美訓練：或是在台協訓：還有相關的這個準則紀念的獲得：在這個：也就是現在在跟：美方簽約的時候：這都是我們在依據：原例以往軍售案：軍購案裡面的這個經驗：我們正在管辦的：那也謝謝委員的指教好 謝謝 謝謝各位部長 謝謝你\n","txt":"主席有請部長是陳委員部長是不是也同時請這個站櫃司長跟陸軍參謀長因為軍售案對我們國家來講是非常重要的一個作業流程也代表\n美國對我們的防衛能力的支持但是在這個作業的過程中間我相信台美雙方這個作業流程的協調是非常重要的我特別這邊給大家報告一個真正的作業流程我們的報價包括初估報價就是ROM價錢\n陳永康 發言委員\n軍售價格的結構包括各種行政作業費、行政管理費、契約管理費、包裝處理費、運輸費用\n陳永康議員\n通知國會的價錢提高了但是又回到DSEA那又再經過軍種再回到我們這邊來談的時候價錢就降低了我認為這個一方面美方的內部要做檢討那另外就是在開這個PMR專案管理會議的時候我們可以跟美國的DSEA提出這個東西請他要改進我們相信美方的作業流程但中間有的時候還會一些犯錯就是說疏忽了\n價錢落差,從前面拿到LOR到簽署發價書,雖然經過一個大loop回到DSEA以後價錢又減下來了。\n但我們編列獵鴞理論上我們支持防衛作戰要善用這個經費那在檢討過程中間我們提出下面的建議你看看這個過程美方公告是115這是通知國會但是從國會同意了又回到DSEA就剩55了\n我們現在目前是建議維持編列115但是彈簧刀剛剛講了原先的300型的那個現在用比較新的形式了那價錢跟原先有落差那現在新增600了那麼這個數量的價錢我認為是在這個專案裡面是可以做討論溝通所以你採購的數量並不是等於差價除以它的單價因為它的整個管理經費跟作業流又不一樣了\n所以發價書是要修正的,預算我們在角度上是支持,但最後還考慮一個,我們現在看到的這個結果是因為報給國會的價錢過高,但是同意以後DSA到軍種再回過來的差,那現在有一點點好像是倒果為因,我們未來看看作虛文件要有備案。\n主席\n彈簧刀300會不會變成消失性商源希望美方要釐定確保我們買的這個第二型的300型能夠有效使用軍購報價完成精算後再正式編列我們這一次我們是支持這個錢有效的運用但是我們希望在後續專案裡面的管理上面尤其是跟DSEA的確認因為剛才那個流程\n部長您有什麼回答?\n是,我想就這個部分當然因為他自衛國會的金額跟原來發家書後面的這個金額確實差距過大那所以我想在當時我們就\n已經這個要求美方要說明這個價差的這個原因那所以剛剛委員也指導了應該我們要分項分項去要求做一個詳細的說明那我想這個部分最後當然有大幅的一個降低那顯示這個當時美國在這個做智慧國會的這個金額的時候\n以後我們應該也會希望他在智慧國會的金額的這一塊能夠做一個精進,不然的話這個確實會引起一些質疑,我想我們會再跟美方就這個智慧國會的金額這個部分應該要在智慧國會之前就應該要做一個相當的一個精算這樣子\n另外就是我們希望站位式跟國防採購式在這個回路的環節過程中間要協助軍種那麼尤其是配合美國的駐美軍事代表團的軍售小組在這個裡面過程中間如果有任何的這個產生的數量上或是價錢上的誤差及時回饋讓我們這邊有一個育嬰的時間師長您這邊是不是可以做一個普通說明\n報告委員,陳如委員剛所指導,事實上這個案子從一開始執行一直到智慧國會發電價差過大,站規師都是全程參與,同時也協助軍種。那後續我們還是會繼續協助軍種在接裝以及後續的申購規劃上面去做一個最完善的安排。\n另外就是這個在採購這個裝備另外就是包括人員訓練這個再次在細項裡面的準則叫飯我們希望料配件能夠先獲得準則叫飯能夠提早中文化合格的訓練人員及早回來這樣子裝備到的時候就是戰力可以發揮參謀長您這邊做一下說明\n報告委員：如您的指導：有關於不管是赴美訓練：或是在台協訓：還有相關的這個準則紀念的獲得：在這個：也就是現在在跟：美方簽約的時候：這都是我們在依據：原例以往軍售案：軍購案裡面的這個經驗：我們正在管辦的：那也謝謝委員的指教好 謝謝 謝謝各位部長 謝謝你\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.549 --> 00:03.810\n主席有請部長是陳委員部長是不是也同時請這個站櫃司長跟陸軍參謀長因為軍售案對我們國家來講是非常重要的一個作業流程也代表\n\n00:26.158 --> 00:44.113\n美國對我們的防衛能力的支持但是在這個作業的過程中間我相信台美雙方這個作業流程的協調是非常重要的我特別這邊給大家報告一個真正的作業流程我們的報價包括初估報價就是ROM價錢\n\n00:45.174 --> 00:46.054\n陳永康發言委員\n\n01:12.868 --> 01:20.677\n軍售價格的結構包括各種行政作業費、行政管理費、契約管理費、包裝處理費、運輸費用\n\n01:23.447 --> 01:23.587\n陳永康議員\n\n01:51.226 --> 02:20.434\n通知國會的價錢提高了但是又回到DSEA那又再經過軍種再回到我們這邊來談的時候價錢就降低了我認為這個一方面美方的內部要做檢討那另外就是在開這個PMR專案管理會議的時候我們可以跟美國的DSEA提出這個東西請他要改進我們相信美方的作業流程但中間有的時候還會一些犯錯就是說疏忽了\n\n02:20.894 --> 02:23.537\n價錢落差,從前面拿到LOR到簽署發價書,雖然經過一個大loop回到DSEA以後價錢又減下來了。\n\n02:36.809 --> 02:54.664\n但我們編列獵鴞理論上我們支持防衛作戰要善用這個經費那在檢討過程中間我們提出下面的建議你看看這個過程美方公告是115這是通知國會但是從國會同意了又回到DSEA就剩55了\n\n02:56.478 --> 03:23.076\n我們現在目前是建議維持編列115但是彈簧刀剛剛講了原先的300型的那個現在用比較新的形式了那價錢跟原先有落差那現在新增600了那麼這個數量的價錢我認為是在這個專案裡面是可以做討論溝通所以你採購的數量並不是等於差價除以它的單價因為它的整個管理經費跟作業流又不一樣了\n\n03:23.536 --> 03:46.415\n所以發價書是要修正的,預算我們在角度上是支持,但最後還考慮一個,我們現在看到的這個結果是因為報給國會的價錢過高,但是同意以後DSA到軍種再回過來的差,那現在有一點點好像是倒果為因,我們未來看看作虛文件要有備案。\n\n03:47.588 --> 03:47.628\n主席\n\n04:05.221 --> 04:30.677\n彈簧刀300會不會變成消失性商源希望美方要釐定確保我們買的這個第二型的300型能夠有效使用軍購報價完成精算後再正式編列我們這一次我們是支持這個錢有效的運用但是我們希望在後續專案裡面的管理上面尤其是跟DSEA的確認因為剛才那個流程\n\n04:31.357 --> 04:32.477\n部長您有什麼回答?\n\n05:00.862 --> 05:14.052\n是,我想就這個部分當然因為他自衛國會的金額跟原來發家書後面的這個金額確實差距過大那所以我想在當時我們就\n\n05:14.738 --> 05:37.730\n已經這個要求美方要說明這個價差的這個原因那所以剛剛委員也指導了應該我們要分項分項去要求做一個詳細的說明那我想這個部分最後當然有大幅的一個降低那顯示這個當時美國在這個做智慧國會的這個金額的時候\n\n05:39.891 --> 06:05.855\n以後我們應該也會希望他在智慧國會的金額的這一塊能夠做一個精進,不然的話這個確實會引起一些質疑,我想我們會再跟美方就這個智慧國會的金額這個部分應該要在智慧國會之前就應該要做一個相當的一個精算這樣子\n\n06:06.595 --> 06:32.208\n另外就是我們希望站位式跟國防採購式在這個回路的環節過程中間要協助軍種那麼尤其是配合美國的駐美軍事代表團的軍售小組在這個裡面過程中間如果有任何的這個產生的數量上或是價錢上的誤差及時回饋讓我們這邊有一個育嬰的時間師長您這邊是不是可以做一個普通說明\n\n06:32.828 --> 06:53.380\n報告委員,陳如委員剛所指導,事實上這個案子從一開始執行一直到智慧國會發電價差過大,站規師都是全程參與,同時也協助軍種。那後續我們還是會繼續協助軍種在接裝以及後續的申購規劃上面去做一個最完善的安排。\n\n06:54.734 --> 07:16.235\n另外就是這個在採購這個裝備另外就是包括人員訓練這個再次在細項裡面的準則叫飯我們希望料配件能夠先獲得準則叫飯能夠提早中文化合格的訓練人員及早回來這樣子裝備到的時候就是戰力可以發揮參謀長您這邊做一下說明\n\n07:20.598 --> 07:42.089\n報告委員：如您的指導：有關於不管是赴美訓練：或是在台協訓：還有相關的這個準則紀念的獲得：在這個：也就是現在在跟：美方簽約的時候：這都是我們在依據：原例以往軍售案：軍購案裡面的這個經驗：我們正在管辦的：那也謝謝委員的指教好謝謝謝謝各位部長謝謝你\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.549,"end":3.81,"text":"主席有請部長是陳委員部長是不是也同時請這個站櫃司長跟陸軍參謀長因為軍售案對我們國家來講是非常重要的一個作業流程也代表"},{"start":26.158,"end":44.113,"text":"美國對我們的防衛能力的支持但是在這個作業的過程中間我相信台美雙方這個作業流程的協調是非常重要的我特別這邊給大家報告一個真正的作業流程我們的報價包括初估報價就是ROM價錢"},{"start":45.174,"end":46.054,"text":"陳永康 發言委員"},{"start":72.868,"end":80.677,"text":"軍售價格的結構包括各種行政作業費、行政管理費、契約管理費、包裝處理費、運輸費用"},{"start":83.447,"end":83.587,"text":"陳永康議員"},{"start":111.226,"end":140.434,"text":"通知國會的價錢提高了但是又回到DSEA那又再經過軍種再回到我們這邊來談的時候價錢就降低了我認為這個一方面美方的內部要做檢討那另外就是在開這個PMR專案管理會議的時候我們可以跟美國的DSEA提出這個東西請他要改進我們相信美方的作業流程但中間有的時候還會一些犯錯就是說疏忽了"},{"start":140.894,"end":143.537,"text":"價錢落差,從前面拿到LOR到簽署發價書,雖然經過一個大loop回到DSEA以後價錢又減下來了。"},{"start":156.809,"end":174.664,"text":"但我們編列獵鴞理論上我們支持防衛作戰要善用這個經費那在檢討過程中間我們提出下面的建議你看看這個過程美方公告是115這是通知國會但是從國會同意了又回到DSEA就剩55了"},{"start":176.478,"end":203.076,"text":"我們現在目前是建議維持編列115但是彈簧刀剛剛講了原先的300型的那個現在用比較新的形式了那價錢跟原先有落差那現在新增600了那麼這個數量的價錢我認為是在這個專案裡面是可以做討論溝通所以你採購的數量並不是等於差價除以它的單價因為它的整個管理經費跟作業流又不一樣了"},{"start":203.536,"end":226.415,"text":"所以發價書是要修正的,預算我們在角度上是支持,但最後還考慮一個,我們現在看到的這個結果是因為報給國會的價錢過高,但是同意以後DSA到軍種再回過來的差,那現在有一點點好像是倒果為因,我們未來看看作虛文件要有備案。"},{"start":227.588,"end":227.628,"text":"主席"},{"start":245.221,"end":270.677,"text":"彈簧刀300會不會變成消失性商源希望美方要釐定確保我們買的這個第二型的300型能夠有效使用軍購報價完成精算後再正式編列我們這一次我們是支持這個錢有效的運用但是我們希望在後續專案裡面的管理上面尤其是跟DSEA的確認因為剛才那個流程"},{"start":271.357,"end":272.477,"text":"部長您有什麼回答?"},{"start":300.862,"end":314.052,"text":"是,我想就這個部分當然因為他自衛國會的金額跟原來發家書後面的這個金額確實差距過大那所以我想在當時我們就"},{"start":314.738,"end":337.73,"text":"已經這個要求美方要說明這個價差的這個原因那所以剛剛委員也指導了應該我們要分項分項去要求做一個詳細的說明那我想這個部分最後當然有大幅的一個降低那顯示這個當時美國在這個做智慧國會的這個金額的時候"},{"start":339.891,"end":365.855,"text":"以後我們應該也會希望他在智慧國會的金額的這一塊能夠做一個精進,不然的話這個確實會引起一些質疑,我想我們會再跟美方就這個智慧國會的金額這個部分應該要在智慧國會之前就應該要做一個相當的一個精算這樣子"},{"start":366.595,"end":392.208,"text":"另外就是我們希望站位式跟國防採購式在這個回路的環節過程中間要協助軍種那麼尤其是配合美國的駐美軍事代表團的軍售小組在這個裡面過程中間如果有任何的這個產生的數量上或是價錢上的誤差及時回饋讓我們這邊有一個育嬰的時間師長您這邊是不是可以做一個普通說明"},{"start":392.828,"end":413.38,"text":"報告委員,陳如委員剛所指導,事實上這個案子從一開始執行一直到智慧國會發電價差過大,站規師都是全程參與,同時也協助軍種。那後續我們還是會繼續協助軍種在接裝以及後續的申購規劃上面去做一個最完善的安排。"},{"start":414.734,"end":436.235,"text":"另外就是這個在採購這個裝備另外就是包括人員訓練這個再次在細項裡面的準則叫飯我們希望料配件能夠先獲得準則叫飯能夠提早中文化合格的訓練人員及早回來這樣子裝備到的時候就是戰力可以發揮參謀長您這邊做一下說明"},{"start":440.598,"end":462.089,"text":"報告委員：如您的指導：有關於不管是赴美訓練：或是在台協訓：還有相關的這個準則紀念的獲得：在這個：也就是現在在跟：美方簽約的時候：這都是我們在依據：原例以往軍售案：軍購案裡面的這個經驗：我們正在管辦的：那也謝謝委員的指教好 謝謝 謝謝各位部長 謝謝你"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":110,"blocks":[["陳委員永康：（9時22分）主席，有請部長。"],["主席：部長請。"],["顧部長立雄：陳委員好。"],["陳委員永康：部長好。是不是也同時請戰規司跟陸軍參謀長？軍售案對我們國家來講是非常重要的作業流程，也代表美國對我們防衛能力的支持。在作業過程中間，我相信臺美雙方對作業流程的協調是非常重要的，因此我特別在這邊向大家報告一個真正的作業流程。","我們的報價包括初估報價，就是ROM價錢，廠商提供包括原廠、再加上美國作業流程，這裡面就是知會國會的金額，也就是為什麼這次會產生的差額，最後是發價書，簽LOA時又掉了60億下來。所以這個案子的最後，包括實際執行金額、修正發價書，中間都可以做有條件的調節，就看我們對案子的深入了解為何。軍售價格的結構包括各種行政管理費、契約管理費、包裝處理費、運輸費用、研發補償費，這就是剛才部長講的，如果一個新的案子出來了，參與國家Non-Recurring的錢就會降低。過去曾經有案子美國就是重複把沉入成本、研發費加在裡面，其實攤過幾次，就是在為可以談的時候做準備。看這次的流程，最主要就是通知國會的價錢提高了，但是回到DSCA，又再經過軍種，再回到我們這邊來談時，價錢就降低了。這點，我認為一方面美方內部要做檢討，另外就是在開PMR（專案管理會議）時，我們可以跟美國的DSCA提出，請他改進。我們相信美方的作業流程，但中間有時候還是會犯一些錯，也就是疏忽了，所以價錢有落差。你看這次的過程中間，我們的價錢從前面拿到LOR開始，ROM價錢，到簽署發價書，雖然經過了一個大loop，回到DSCA以後，價錢又減下來了，但我們編列的預算，理論上我們支持防衛作戰，要善用這個經費。","在檢討過程中間，我們提出下面的建議，你看看這個過程，美方公告金額是115億，這是通知國會，但是從國會同意又回到DSCA就剩55億了，我們目前是建議維持原編列金額115億。但是彈簧刀剛剛講了原先的300型，現在用比較新的形式了，價錢跟原先有落差，現在新增ALTIUS-600，這個數量的價錢我認為在這個專案裡面是可以做討論、溝通的。所以你採購的數量並不是等於差價除以它的單價，因為它整個管理經費跟作業流程又不一樣，所以發價書是要修正的。預算我們在角度上是支持，但最後還要考慮一個，我們現在看到的這個結果是因為報給國會的價錢過高，同意後，DSCA到軍種再回過來的差，現在有一點點好像是倒果為因，所以我們未來作需文件要有備案，不是只有一種構想，這個是我們作戰需求上戰略選項的彈性，如果你綁死了一個item一個發價書，那在這個package裡面，如果照我們的作業流程，你就沒有條件去選第二項了。另外一個就是300型的彈簧刀未來會不會變成消失性商源，希望美方要釐定，確保我們買的第二型（300型）能夠有效使用。","軍購報價完成精算後，再正式編列。我們這一次是支持這個錢有效的運用，但是我們希望在後續的專案管理上面，尤其是跟DSCA的確認，因為剛才那個流程，DSCA完了還要再會軍種再審查，最後到國會，國會又回到DSCA，再回到軍種，這個專案因為是美國海軍陸戰隊，所以回到海軍，再回到我們這邊，在這個作業的loop裡面，我希望我們的同仁，不只是採購室、戰規司，包括軍種使用（end user）這個最重要的部分，我提醒部長，這個部分我們大家要精進、要努力。請部長回答。"],["顧部長立雄：是，就這個部分，因為它知會國會的金額跟原來發價書後面的金額確實差距過大，所以在當時我們就已經要求美方要說明這個價差的原因，剛剛委員也指導了，我們應該要要求分項做詳細的說明，這個部分最後當然有大幅的降低，顯示當時美國在做知會國會的這個金額的時候……以後我們應該也會希望他在知會國會金額的這一塊能夠做一個精進，不然確實會引起一些質疑，我想我們會再跟美方就知會國會的金額這個部分，應該要在知會國會之前就應該要做一個相當的精算。"],["陳委員永康：另外，我們希望戰規司跟國防採購室在這個迴路的環節過程中間要協助軍種，尤其是配合美國的駐美軍事代表團的軍售小組，在這個過程中間如果有產生任何數量上或是價錢上的誤差要即時回饋，讓我們這邊有預應的時間。司長，您這邊是不是可以做一個補充說明？"],["黃司長文啓：報告委員，誠如委員剛剛所指導，事實上這個案子從一開始執行，一直到知會國會發現價差過大，戰規司都是全程參與，同時也協助軍種，後續我們還是會繼續協助軍種，在接裝以及後續的申購規劃上面去做一個最完善的安排。"],["陳委員永康：在採購裝備上，另外包括人員訓練、在細項裡面的準則教範，我們希望料配件能夠先獲得，準則教範能夠提早中文化，合格的訓練人員及早回來，這樣子裝備到的時候，戰力可以發揮。參謀長，您這邊做一下說明。"],["陳參謀長建義：報告委員，如您的指導，有關於不管是赴美訓練或是在臺協訓還有相關準則的獲得，也就是現在在跟美方簽約的時候，我們是援例依據以往軍購案的經驗，我們正在管辦，也謝謝委員的指教。"],["陳委員永康：好，謝謝各位，部長，謝謝你。"],["顧部長立雄：謝謝。"],["主席（羅委員美玲代）：謝謝陳永康委員。有請王定宇召委。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":166,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-17","speakers":["王定宇","羅美玲","陳永康","徐巧芯","馬文君","陳冠廷","黃仁","王鴻薇","林憶君","沈伯洋","林楚茵","蘇清泉"],"page_start":141,"meetingDate":["2024-11-25"],"gazette_id":"11310501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310501_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部報告「獵鴞專案執行規劃」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"11310501_00009"}}}