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{\"word\": \"別\", \"start\": 389.201, \"end\": 389.561, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 389.561, \"end\": 390.202, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 390.202, \"end\": 390.222, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}]}, {\"start\": 394.187, \"end\": 412.236, \"text\": \"這個計畫預算是跟著計畫走的那現在已經有採購的計畫了嗎?還有想買多少量需要提需求書提了嗎?每方提供的發價書有了嗎?所以這個就是你為什麼編115億的狀況\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"畫\"}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 394.187, \"end\": 394.487, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 394.487, \"end\": 394.747, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 394.747, \"end\": 395.988, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"著\", \"start\": 395.988, \"end\": 396.348, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"畫\"}, {\"word\": \"走\", \"start\": 396.348, \"end\": 396.548, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 396.548, \"end\": 397.108, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": 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{\"word\": \"億\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 439.867, \"end\": 439.887, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 439.887, \"end\": 440.027, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 440.027, \"end\": 440.167, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 440.167, \"end\": 440.187, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 440.187, \"end\": 440.287, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"答\", \"start\": 440.287, \"end\": 440.307, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 445.322, \"end\": 472.561, \"text\": \"委員好 我是主席局局長就委員所提到第一個問題預算編列的一個程序是否符合相關的法規就預算法的規範我們國防部編列所有軍事投資建案不管是55億的需求115億需求我們都完成相關的建案程序也因為它超過10億元以上非積極密的案子我們都報奉行政院核令之後奉行政院分配預算來編列相關的預算書表送進大院來審查就預算的編列程序是沒有問題以上跟委員報告\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 445.322, \"end\": 445.482, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 445.482, \"end\": 445.642, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 445.642, \"end\": 445.802, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 445.802, 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525.563, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 530.458, \"end\": 531.242, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"黃\"}, {\"word\": \"仁\", \"start\": 531.242, \"end\": 531.342, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 531.342, \"end\": 531.704, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 531.704, \"end\": 531.825, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 531.825, \"end\": 532.186, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 532.186, \"end\": 532.206, \"score\": 0.341}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,489 --> 00:00:14,519\n謝謝主席,在詢問顧部長之前,我對主席剛剛所發言的部分,針對口頭宣告的今天獵鴞專案經國防部報告之後,即認可專案,\n\n2\n00:00:18,261 --> 00:00:19,262\n關於我們的這個獵鴞專案\n\n3\n00:00:46,775 --> 00:01:14,391\n我們有兩種無人機的飛彈系統分別為人員殺傷型彈簧刀以及仿專甲ADIS600那經過很多的測試在烏克蘭在烏克蘭認為這個彈簧刀它的效能沒有那麼好所以會影響到我們行\n\n4\n00:01:16,267 --> 00:01:16,287\n情誼這個\n\n5\n00:01:20,337 --> 00:01:41,241\n行飛彈的一型跟二型未來的一個發展所以這個部分來講話你說有沒有必要來採購這個彈簧刀300型的還有另外就是這個ADIS的600型的這個部分有沒有必要採購因為經過烏克蘭的實戰的經驗裡面來講話品價並不好\n\n6\n00:01:48,883 --> 00:02:08,641\n所以如果嚴格來講我們的這個巡飛彈一型比彈簧刀還來得好而且價格上都差不多所以部長有沒有思考這個部分有沒有必要大量的採購這些這兩型的系統\n\n7\n00:02:10,587 --> 00:02:26,248\n我想就中科院所研製的巡迴彈一型的這個部分它是比較跟這個美資的300的性能比較相近那我們現在當然採購的是人員殺人性能度是台灣刀300的\n\n8\n00:02:27,469 --> 00:02:55,914\n這個最新型的部分就是兩棟的部分那另外我們主要要徵購的部分是這一個ARTIS600這個人員不是反裝甲型的這個無人攻擊機那所以我想就這個部分在我們這個島嶼防衛作戰上面來看的話我們認為ARTIS600的這個部分在我們的這個防衛作戰構想上面是可以發揮相當大的作用\n\n9\n00:02:57,674 --> 00:03:25,348\n因為我為什麼提這個我們行飛彈一行雖然沒有實戰的經驗實戰但是他的在是在本土研發生產的他的測試在我們的戰場環境就整個我們本土的國家的這個地形地物所做出來的這樣的一個這樣的一個行飛彈一行所以實際上可能\n\n10\n00:03:26,195 --> 00:03:48,879\n更符合我們作戰的需求啊所以在採購的來講的話行飛彈一行這個平均的價格大概300萬那實際上跟彈滑刀的無人機裡面價格都差不多所以是不是可以考慮行飛彈一行的這個部分來講是不是可以針對這個來做進行採購跟研發\n\n11\n00:03:53,420 --> 00:04:01,263\n我們都是雙軌並行的,也就是說外購的部分我們需要,那剛剛已經講過了,我們現在要徵購的並不是這個人員殺傷型的這一個300,我們要徵購的是那個Artist600,\n\n12\n00:04:08,285 --> 00:04:09,827\n中科院的這個300的部分如果通過作案測評之後我們當然也可以再進行量產這樣子\n\n13\n00:04:27,045 --> 00:04:40,380\n好,在6月26號的時候就關心過美國出售彈簧刀300型,阿迪斯的650無人機你當時也回答說我們雙管並用,同步採購,那這個\n\n14\n00:04:45,677 --> 00:05:11,490\n本席看了陸軍隊已經採過的300架的中科型飛彈一型外﹖國軍沒有再採過任何一架型飛彈一型﹖結果陸軍一口氣就向美國採購大量的100枚無人機飛彈﹖還多編了60億準備後續採購﹖這就是看出當時本席擔心完全正確﹖而且你當時有講說是同步進行的來採購﹖\n\n15\n00:05:12,651 --> 00:05:35,859\n所以這個就是問題出在這個地方啊在6月28號的時候6月26號的時候我在這個地方特別質詢你所以你當時回答我是同步進行採購但是今天出了這個問題剛剛我所報告的部長所以你要重新的調整思考一下好不好那針對我們今天的\n\n16\n00:05:39,226 --> 00:05:43,750\n多編了55億多編了115億這個問題從哪裡來而且他的這個發價發價書裡面就已經美國的發價書裡面已經很明確的是55億針對685架的人員殺傷型291架的\n\n17\n00:06:01,745 --> 00:06:30,222\n防專家型的這個狀況很清楚的是55億為什麼編了115億那另外我特別要講的是第一個我們有沒有在計畫裡面有預算的精神法是預算法的精神在計畫的時候一定有預算的精神那是不是有違反了預算書的精神另外就是我特別講的我們\n\n18\n00:06:34,187 --> 00:06:52,236\n這個計畫預算是跟著計畫走的那現在已經有採購的計畫了嗎?還有想買多少量需要提需求書提了嗎?每方提供的發價書有了嗎?所以這個就是你為什麼編115億的狀況\n\n19\n00:06:55,478 --> 00:07:20,307\n而且今天美國發價書裡面就55億而已為什麼你就用這個來後續來編這個115億今天我講的是第一個採購計畫有了嗎第二想買多少數量有了嗎還有需求需求需求書提了嗎那這個就是你們今天的美方有沒有提出發價書115億的預算你要回答\n\n20\n00:07:25,322 --> 00:07:52,561\n委員好我是主席局局長就委員所提到第一個問題預算編列的一個程序是否符合相關的法規就預算法的規範我們國防部編列所有軍事投資建案不管是55億的需求115億需求我們都完成相關的建案程序也因為它超過10億元以上非積極密的案子我們都報奉行政院核令之後奉行政院分配預算來編列相關的預算書表送進大院來審查就預算的編列程序是沒有問題以上跟委員報告\n\n21\n00:07:54,828 --> 00:07:59,611\n剛剛所有的議員都已經提出對115億的疑問,你算還是合法的嗎?剛剛我先講出來了嗎?請問一下,你現在回答我請問一下,你有沒有採購的計畫?第二個,需要買多少量?第三,需求提出\n\n22\n00:08:17,867 --> 00:08:45,563\n西球書提了嗎?這個就是一個問題所在嘛!你們還提了嗎?理由一大堆!報告委員,我們沒有提理由,我們在這邊跟委員...你們重新檢討啦!我們這60億元都必須經過大院的同意才可以動之。那如果大院不同意的話,當然我們只能按照原本的預算狂烈來執行。對嘛!這樣回答不就是一個問題...給本席一個答案了嗎?你還講什麼理由?\n\n23\n00:08:50,458 --> 00:08:52,206\n好謝謝黃仁委員各位請回\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n489\t14519\t謝謝主席,在詢問顧部長之前,我對主席剛剛所發言的部分,針對口頭宣告的今天獵鴞專案經國防部報告之後,即認可專案,\n18261\t19262\t關於我們的這個獵鴞專案\n46775\t74391\t我們有兩種無人機的飛彈系統分別為人員殺傷型彈簧刀以及仿專甲ADIS 600那經過很多的測試在烏克蘭在烏克蘭認為這個彈簧刀它的效能沒有那麼好所以會影響到我們行\n76267\t76287\t情誼 這個\n80337\t101241\t行飛彈的一型跟二型未來的一個發展所以這個部分來講話你說有沒有必要來採購這個彈簧刀300型的還有另外就是這個ADIS的600型的這個部分有沒有必要採購因為經過烏克蘭的實戰的經驗裡面來講話品價並不好\n108883\t128641\t所以如果嚴格來講我們的這個巡飛彈一型比彈簧刀還來得好而且價格上都差不多所以部長有沒有思考這個部分有沒有必要大量的採購這些這兩型的系統\n130587\t146248\t我想就中科院所研製的巡迴彈一型的這個部分它是比較跟這個美資的300的性能比較相近那我們現在當然採購的是人員殺人性能度是台灣刀300的\n147469\t175914\t這個最新型的部分就是兩棟的部分那另外我們主要要徵購的部分是這一個ARTIS 600這個人員不是反裝甲型的這個無人攻擊機那所以我想就這個部分在我們這個島嶼防衛作戰上面來看的話我們認為ARTIS 600的這個部分在我們的這個防衛作戰構想上面是可以發揮相當大的作用\n177674\t205348\t因為我為什麼提這個我們行飛彈一行雖然沒有實戰的經驗實戰但是他的在是在本土研發生產的他的測試在我們的戰場環境就整個我們本土的國家的這個地形地物所做出來的這樣的一個這樣的一個行飛彈一行所以實際上可能\n206195\t228879\t更符合我們作戰的需求啊所以在採購的來講的話行飛彈一行這個平均的價格大概300萬那實際上跟彈滑刀的無人機裡面價格都差不多所以是不是可以考慮行飛彈一行的這個部分來講是不是可以針對這個來做進行採購跟研發\n233420\t241263\t我們都是雙軌並行的,也就是說外購的部分我們需要,那剛剛已經講過了,我們現在要徵購的並不是這個人員殺傷型的這一個300,我們要徵購的是那個Artist 600,\n248285\t249827\t中科院的這個300的部分如果通過作案測評之後我們當然也可以再進行量產這樣子\n267045\t280380\t好,在6月26號的時候就關心過美國出售彈簧刀300型,阿迪斯的650無人機你當時也回答說我們雙管並用,同步採購,那這個\n285677\t311490\t本席看了陸軍隊已經採過的300架的中科型飛彈一型外﹖國軍沒有再採過任何一架型飛彈一型﹖結果陸軍一口氣就向美國採購大量的100枚無人機飛彈﹖還多編了60億準備後續採購﹖這就是看出當時本席擔心完全正確﹖而且你當時有講說是同步進行的來採購﹖\n312651\t335859\t所以這個就是問題出在這個地方啊在6月28號的時候6月26號的時候我在這個地方特別質詢你所以你當時回答我是同步進行採購但是今天出了這個問題剛剛我所報告的部長所以你要重新的調整思考一下好不好那針對我們今天的\n339226\t343750\t多編了55億多編了115億這個問題從哪裡來而且他的這個發價發價書裡面就已經美國的發價書裡面已經很明確的是55億針對685架的人員殺傷型291架的\n361745\t390222\t防專家型的這個狀況很清楚的是55億為什麼編了115億那另外我特別要講的是第一個我們有沒有在計畫裡面有預算的精神法是預算法的精神在計畫的時候一定有預算的精神那是不是有違反了預算書的精神另外就是我特別講的我們\n394187\t412236\t這個計畫預算是跟著計畫走的那現在已經有採購的計畫了嗎?還有想買多少量需要提需求書提了嗎?每方提供的發價書有了嗎?所以這個就是你為什麼編115億的狀況\n415478\t440307\t而且今天美國發價書裡面就55億而已為什麼你就用這個來後續來編這個115億今天我講的是第一個採購計畫有了嗎第二想買多少數量有了嗎還有需求需求需求書提了嗎那這個就是你們今天的美方有沒有提出發價書115億的預算你要回答\n445322\t472561\t委員好 我是主席局局長就委員所提到第一個問題預算編列的一個程序是否符合相關的法規就預算法的規範我們國防部編列所有軍事投資建案不管是55億的需求115億需求我們都完成相關的建案程序也因為它超過10億元以上非積極密的案子我們都報奉行政院核令之後奉行政院分配預算來編列相關的預算書表送進大院來審查就預算的編列程序是沒有問題以上跟委員報告\n474828\t479611\t剛剛所有的議員都已經提出對115億的疑問,你算還是合法的嗎?剛剛我先講出來了嗎?請問一下,你現在回答我請問一下,你有沒有採購的計畫?第二個,需要買多少量?第三,需求提出\n497867\t525563\t西球書提了嗎?這個就是一個問題所在嘛!你們還提了嗎?理由一大堆!報告委員,我們沒有提理由,我們在這邊跟委員...你們重新檢討啦!我們這60億元都必須經過大院的同意才可以動之。那如果大院不同意的話,當然我們只能按照原本的預算狂烈來執行。對嘛!這樣回答不就是一個問題...給本席一個答案了嗎?你還講什麼理由?\n530458\t532206\t好謝謝黃仁委員各位請回\n","txt":"謝謝主席,在詢問顧部長之前,我對主席剛剛所發言的部分,針對口頭宣告的今天獵鴞專案經國防部報告之後,即認可專案,\n關於我們的這個獵鴞專案\n我們有兩種無人機的飛彈系統分別為人員殺傷型彈簧刀以及仿專甲ADIS 600那經過很多的測試在烏克蘭在烏克蘭認為這個彈簧刀它的效能沒有那麼好所以會影響到我們行\n情誼 這個\n行飛彈的一型跟二型未來的一個發展所以這個部分來講話你說有沒有必要來採購這個彈簧刀300型的還有另外就是這個ADIS的600型的這個部分有沒有必要採購因為經過烏克蘭的實戰的經驗裡面來講話品價並不好\n所以如果嚴格來講我們的這個巡飛彈一型比彈簧刀還來得好而且價格上都差不多所以部長有沒有思考這個部分有沒有必要大量的採購這些這兩型的系統\n我想就中科院所研製的巡迴彈一型的這個部分它是比較跟這個美資的300的性能比較相近那我們現在當然採購的是人員殺人性能度是台灣刀300的\n這個最新型的部分就是兩棟的部分那另外我們主要要徵購的部分是這一個ARTIS 600這個人員不是反裝甲型的這個無人攻擊機那所以我想就這個部分在我們這個島嶼防衛作戰上面來看的話我們認為ARTIS 600的這個部分在我們的這個防衛作戰構想上面是可以發揮相當大的作用\n因為我為什麼提這個我們行飛彈一行雖然沒有實戰的經驗實戰但是他的在是在本土研發生產的他的測試在我們的戰場環境就整個我們本土的國家的這個地形地物所做出來的這樣的一個這樣的一個行飛彈一行所以實際上可能\n更符合我們作戰的需求啊所以在採購的來講的話行飛彈一行這個平均的價格大概300萬那實際上跟彈滑刀的無人機裡面價格都差不多所以是不是可以考慮行飛彈一行的這個部分來講是不是可以針對這個來做進行採購跟研發\n我們都是雙軌並行的,也就是說外購的部分我們需要,那剛剛已經講過了,我們現在要徵購的並不是這個人員殺傷型的這一個300,我們要徵購的是那個Artist 600,\n中科院的這個300的部分如果通過作案測評之後我們當然也可以再進行量產這樣子\n好,在6月26號的時候就關心過美國出售彈簧刀300型,阿迪斯的650無人機你當時也回答說我們雙管並用,同步採購,那這個\n本席看了陸軍隊已經採過的300架的中科型飛彈一型外﹖國軍沒有再採過任何一架型飛彈一型﹖結果陸軍一口氣就向美國採購大量的100枚無人機飛彈﹖還多編了60億準備後續採購﹖這就是看出當時本席擔心完全正確﹖而且你當時有講說是同步進行的來採購﹖\n所以這個就是問題出在這個地方啊在6月28號的時候6月26號的時候我在這個地方特別質詢你所以你當時回答我是同步進行採購但是今天出了這個問題剛剛我所報告的部長所以你要重新的調整思考一下好不好那針對我們今天的\n多編了55億多編了115億這個問題從哪裡來而且他的這個發價發價書裡面就已經美國的發價書裡面已經很明確的是55億針對685架的人員殺傷型291架的\n防專家型的這個狀況很清楚的是55億為什麼編了115億那另外我特別要講的是第一個我們有沒有在計畫裡面有預算的精神法是預算法的精神在計畫的時候一定有預算的精神那是不是有違反了預算書的精神另外就是我特別講的我們\n這個計畫預算是跟著計畫走的那現在已經有採購的計畫了嗎?還有想買多少量需要提需求書提了嗎?每方提供的發價書有了嗎?所以這個就是你為什麼編115億的狀況\n而且今天美國發價書裡面就55億而已為什麼你就用這個來後續來編這個115億今天我講的是第一個採購計畫有了嗎第二想買多少數量有了嗎還有需求需求需求書提了嗎那這個就是你們今天的美方有沒有提出發價書115億的預算你要回答\n委員好 我是主席局局長就委員所提到第一個問題預算編列的一個程序是否符合相關的法規就預算法的規範我們國防部編列所有軍事投資建案不管是55億的需求115億需求我們都完成相關的建案程序也因為它超過10億元以上非積極密的案子我們都報奉行政院核令之後奉行政院分配預算來編列相關的預算書表送進大院來審查就預算的編列程序是沒有問題以上跟委員報告\n剛剛所有的議員都已經提出對115億的疑問,你算還是合法的嗎?剛剛我先講出來了嗎?請問一下,你現在回答我請問一下,你有沒有採購的計畫?第二個,需要買多少量?第三,需求提出\n西球書提了嗎?這個就是一個問題所在嘛!你們還提了嗎?理由一大堆!報告委員,我們沒有提理由,我們在這邊跟委員...你們重新檢討啦!我們這60億元都必須經過大院的同意才可以動之。那如果大院不同意的話,當然我們只能按照原本的預算狂烈來執行。對嘛!這樣回答不就是一個問題...給本席一個答案了嗎?你還講什麼理由?\n好謝謝黃仁委員各位請回\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.489 --> 00:14.519\n謝謝主席,在詢問顧部長之前,我對主席剛剛所發言的部分,針對口頭宣告的今天獵鴞專案經國防部報告之後,即認可專案,\n\n00:18.261 --> 00:19.262\n關於我們的這個獵鴞專案\n\n00:46.775 --> 01:14.391\n我們有兩種無人機的飛彈系統分別為人員殺傷型彈簧刀以及仿專甲ADIS600那經過很多的測試在烏克蘭在烏克蘭認為這個彈簧刀它的效能沒有那麼好所以會影響到我們行\n\n01:16.267 --> 01:16.287\n情誼這個\n\n01:20.337 --> 01:41.241\n行飛彈的一型跟二型未來的一個發展所以這個部分來講話你說有沒有必要來採購這個彈簧刀300型的還有另外就是這個ADIS的600型的這個部分有沒有必要採購因為經過烏克蘭的實戰的經驗裡面來講話品價並不好\n\n01:48.883 --> 02:08.641\n所以如果嚴格來講我們的這個巡飛彈一型比彈簧刀還來得好而且價格上都差不多所以部長有沒有思考這個部分有沒有必要大量的採購這些這兩型的系統\n\n02:10.587 --> 02:26.248\n我想就中科院所研製的巡迴彈一型的這個部分它是比較跟這個美資的300的性能比較相近那我們現在當然採購的是人員殺人性能度是台灣刀300的\n\n02:27.469 --> 02:55.914\n這個最新型的部分就是兩棟的部分那另外我們主要要徵購的部分是這一個ARTIS600這個人員不是反裝甲型的這個無人攻擊機那所以我想就這個部分在我們這個島嶼防衛作戰上面來看的話我們認為ARTIS600的這個部分在我們的這個防衛作戰構想上面是可以發揮相當大的作用\n\n02:57.674 --> 03:25.348\n因為我為什麼提這個我們行飛彈一行雖然沒有實戰的經驗實戰但是他的在是在本土研發生產的他的測試在我們的戰場環境就整個我們本土的國家的這個地形地物所做出來的這樣的一個這樣的一個行飛彈一行所以實際上可能\n\n03:26.195 --> 03:48.879\n更符合我們作戰的需求啊所以在採購的來講的話行飛彈一行這個平均的價格大概300萬那實際上跟彈滑刀的無人機裡面價格都差不多所以是不是可以考慮行飛彈一行的這個部分來講是不是可以針對這個來做進行採購跟研發\n\n03:53.420 --> 04:01.263\n我們都是雙軌並行的,也就是說外購的部分我們需要,那剛剛已經講過了,我們現在要徵購的並不是這個人員殺傷型的這一個300,我們要徵購的是那個Artist600,\n\n04:08.285 --> 04:09.827\n中科院的這個300的部分如果通過作案測評之後我們當然也可以再進行量產這樣子\n\n04:27.045 --> 04:40.380\n好,在6月26號的時候就關心過美國出售彈簧刀300型,阿迪斯的650無人機你當時也回答說我們雙管並用,同步採購,那這個\n\n04:45.677 --> 05:11.490\n本席看了陸軍隊已經採過的300架的中科型飛彈一型外﹖國軍沒有再採過任何一架型飛彈一型﹖結果陸軍一口氣就向美國採購大量的100枚無人機飛彈﹖還多編了60億準備後續採購﹖這就是看出當時本席擔心完全正確﹖而且你當時有講說是同步進行的來採購﹖\n\n05:12.651 --> 05:35.859\n所以這個就是問題出在這個地方啊在6月28號的時候6月26號的時候我在這個地方特別質詢你所以你當時回答我是同步進行採購但是今天出了這個問題剛剛我所報告的部長所以你要重新的調整思考一下好不好那針對我們今天的\n\n05:39.226 --> 05:43.750\n多編了55億多編了115億這個問題從哪裡來而且他的這個發價發價書裡面就已經美國的發價書裡面已經很明確的是55億針對685架的人員殺傷型291架的\n\n06:01.745 --> 06:30.222\n防專家型的這個狀況很清楚的是55億為什麼編了115億那另外我特別要講的是第一個我們有沒有在計畫裡面有預算的精神法是預算法的精神在計畫的時候一定有預算的精神那是不是有違反了預算書的精神另外就是我特別講的我們\n\n06:34.187 --> 06:52.236\n這個計畫預算是跟著計畫走的那現在已經有採購的計畫了嗎?還有想買多少量需要提需求書提了嗎?每方提供的發價書有了嗎?所以這個就是你為什麼編115億的狀況\n\n06:55.478 --> 07:20.307\n而且今天美國發價書裡面就55億而已為什麼你就用這個來後續來編這個115億今天我講的是第一個採購計畫有了嗎第二想買多少數量有了嗎還有需求需求需求書提了嗎那這個就是你們今天的美方有沒有提出發價書115億的預算你要回答\n\n07:25.322 --> 07:52.561\n委員好我是主席局局長就委員所提到第一個問題預算編列的一個程序是否符合相關的法規就預算法的規範我們國防部編列所有軍事投資建案不管是55億的需求115億需求我們都完成相關的建案程序也因為它超過10億元以上非積極密的案子我們都報奉行政院核令之後奉行政院分配預算來編列相關的預算書表送進大院來審查就預算的編列程序是沒有問題以上跟委員報告\n\n07:54.828 --> 07:59.611\n剛剛所有的議員都已經提出對115億的疑問,你算還是合法的嗎?剛剛我先講出來了嗎?請問一下,你現在回答我請問一下,你有沒有採購的計畫?第二個,需要買多少量?第三,需求提出\n\n08:17.867 --> 08:45.563\n西球書提了嗎?這個就是一個問題所在嘛!你們還提了嗎?理由一大堆!報告委員,我們沒有提理由,我們在這邊跟委員...你們重新檢討啦!我們這60億元都必須經過大院的同意才可以動之。那如果大院不同意的話,當然我們只能按照原本的預算狂烈來執行。對嘛!這樣回答不就是一個問題...給本席一個答案了嗎?你還講什麼理由?\n\n08:50.458 --> 08:52.206\n好謝謝黃仁委員各位請回\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.489,"end":14.519,"text":"謝謝主席,在詢問顧部長之前,我對主席剛剛所發言的部分,針對口頭宣告的今天獵鴞專案經國防部報告之後,即認可專案,"},{"start":18.261,"end":19.262,"text":"關於我們的這個獵鴞專案"},{"start":46.775,"end":74.391,"text":"我們有兩種無人機的飛彈系統分別為人員殺傷型彈簧刀以及仿專甲ADIS 600那經過很多的測試在烏克蘭在烏克蘭認為這個彈簧刀它的效能沒有那麼好所以會影響到我們行"},{"start":76.267,"end":76.287,"text":"情誼 這個"},{"start":80.337,"end":101.241,"text":"行飛彈的一型跟二型未來的一個發展所以這個部分來講話你說有沒有必要來採購這個彈簧刀300型的還有另外就是這個ADIS的600型的這個部分有沒有必要採購因為經過烏克蘭的實戰的經驗裡面來講話品價並不好"},{"start":108.883,"end":128.641,"text":"所以如果嚴格來講我們的這個巡飛彈一型比彈簧刀還來得好而且價格上都差不多所以部長有沒有思考這個部分有沒有必要大量的採購這些這兩型的系統"},{"start":130.587,"end":146.248,"text":"我想就中科院所研製的巡迴彈一型的這個部分它是比較跟這個美資的300的性能比較相近那我們現在當然採購的是人員殺人性能度是台灣刀300的"},{"start":147.469,"end":175.914,"text":"這個最新型的部分就是兩棟的部分那另外我們主要要徵購的部分是這一個ARTIS 600這個人員不是反裝甲型的這個無人攻擊機那所以我想就這個部分在我們這個島嶼防衛作戰上面來看的話我們認為ARTIS 600的這個部分在我們的這個防衛作戰構想上面是可以發揮相當大的作用"},{"start":177.674,"end":205.348,"text":"因為我為什麼提這個我們行飛彈一行雖然沒有實戰的經驗實戰但是他的在是在本土研發生產的他的測試在我們的戰場環境就整個我們本土的國家的這個地形地物所做出來的這樣的一個這樣的一個行飛彈一行所以實際上可能"},{"start":206.195,"end":228.879,"text":"更符合我們作戰的需求啊所以在採購的來講的話行飛彈一行這個平均的價格大概300萬那實際上跟彈滑刀的無人機裡面價格都差不多所以是不是可以考慮行飛彈一行的這個部分來講是不是可以針對這個來做進行採購跟研發"},{"start":233.42,"end":241.263,"text":"我們都是雙軌並行的,也就是說外購的部分我們需要,那剛剛已經講過了,我們現在要徵購的並不是這個人員殺傷型的這一個300,我們要徵購的是那個Artist 600,"},{"start":248.285,"end":249.827,"text":"中科院的這個300的部分如果通過作案測評之後我們當然也可以再進行量產這樣子"},{"start":267.045,"end":280.38,"text":"好,在6月26號的時候就關心過美國出售彈簧刀300型,阿迪斯的650無人機你當時也回答說我們雙管並用,同步採購,那這個"},{"start":285.677,"end":311.49,"text":"本席看了陸軍隊已經採過的300架的中科型飛彈一型外﹖國軍沒有再採過任何一架型飛彈一型﹖結果陸軍一口氣就向美國採購大量的100枚無人機飛彈﹖還多編了60億準備後續採購﹖這就是看出當時本席擔心完全正確﹖而且你當時有講說是同步進行的來採購﹖"},{"start":312.651,"end":335.859,"text":"所以這個就是問題出在這個地方啊在6月28號的時候6月26號的時候我在這個地方特別質詢你所以你當時回答我是同步進行採購但是今天出了這個問題剛剛我所報告的部長所以你要重新的調整思考一下好不好那針對我們今天的"},{"start":339.226,"end":343.75,"text":"多編了55億多編了115億這個問題從哪裡來而且他的這個發價發價書裡面就已經美國的發價書裡面已經很明確的是55億針對685架的人員殺傷型291架的"},{"start":361.745,"end":390.222,"text":"防專家型的這個狀況很清楚的是55億為什麼編了115億那另外我特別要講的是第一個我們有沒有在計畫裡面有預算的精神法是預算法的精神在計畫的時候一定有預算的精神那是不是有違反了預算書的精神另外就是我特別講的我們"},{"start":394.187,"end":412.236,"text":"這個計畫預算是跟著計畫走的那現在已經有採購的計畫了嗎?還有想買多少量需要提需求書提了嗎?每方提供的發價書有了嗎?所以這個就是你為什麼編115億的狀況"},{"start":415.478,"end":440.307,"text":"而且今天美國發價書裡面就55億而已為什麼你就用這個來後續來編這個115億今天我講的是第一個採購計畫有了嗎第二想買多少數量有了嗎還有需求需求需求書提了嗎那這個就是你們今天的美方有沒有提出發價書115億的預算你要回答"},{"start":445.322,"end":472.561,"text":"委員好 我是主席局局長就委員所提到第一個問題預算編列的一個程序是否符合相關的法規就預算法的規範我們國防部編列所有軍事投資建案不管是55億的需求115億需求我們都完成相關的建案程序也因為它超過10億元以上非積極密的案子我們都報奉行政院核令之後奉行政院分配預算來編列相關的預算書表送進大院來審查就預算的編列程序是沒有問題以上跟委員報告"},{"start":474.828,"end":479.611,"text":"剛剛所有的議員都已經提出對115億的疑問,你算還是合法的嗎?剛剛我先講出來了嗎?請問一下,你現在回答我請問一下,你有沒有採購的計畫?第二個,需要買多少量?第三,需求提出"},{"start":497.867,"end":525.563,"text":"西球書提了嗎?這個就是一個問題所在嘛!你們還提了嗎?理由一大堆!報告委員,我們沒有提理由,我們在這邊跟委員...你們重新檢討啦!我們這60億元都必須經過大院的同意才可以動之。那如果大院不同意的話,當然我們只能按照原本的預算狂烈來執行。對嘛!這樣回答不就是一個問題...給本席一個答案了嗎?你還講什麼理由?"},{"start":530.458,"end":532.206,"text":"好謝謝黃仁委員各位請回"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":302,"blocks":[["黃委員仁：（10時13分）謝謝主席。在詢問顧部長之前，我對主席剛剛所做的口頭宣告，也就是今天獵鴞專案經國防部報告之後的可行性預算……這我對主席有點……"],["主席：沒有，我剛剛有再宣告，你可能沒聽到……"],["黃委員仁：我知道、我知道。"],["主席：今天只處理報告案，預算部分請他們跟各委員充分溝通說明後再行處理，好不好？"],["黃委員仁：好。我們請部長。"],["主席：部長請。"],["顧部長立雄：黃委員好。"],["黃委員仁：部長好。關於獵鴞專案，目前有兩種無人機飛彈系統，分別為人員殺傷型的彈簧刀以及反裝甲ALTIUS-600，均經過很多測試，像烏克蘭就認為彈簧刀的效能沒有那麼好，會影響我們巡飛彈1型跟2型未來的發展。就這部分來講，你們認為有沒有必要採購彈簧刀300型及ALTIUS-600型？有沒有必要採購？因為經過烏克蘭的實戰經驗，評價並不好。所以嚴格來講，我們的巡飛彈一型比彈簧刀還來得好，而且價格上都差不多，所以部長，你有沒有思考過這個部分，有沒有必要大量採購這兩型的系統？"],["顧部長立雄：我想中科院所研製的巡飛彈1型的這個部分，它是跟美製的300性能比較相近，我們現在採購的人員殺傷型是彈簧刀300最新型的部分，就是20的部分。另外，我們主要要增購的部分是ALTIUS-600，這是反裝甲型的無人攻擊機，就這個部分在我們島嶼防衛作戰上面來看的話，我認為ALTIUS-600的部分，在我們的防衛作戰構想上面，是可以發揮相當大的作用。"],["黃委員仁：我為什麼提這個？我們的巡飛彈1型雖然沒有實戰的經驗，但是它是在本土研發生產的，它的測試是在我們的戰場環境，就是針對我們整個本土的國家的地形、地物，所做出來的這樣一個巡飛彈1型，所以實際上可能更符合我們作戰的需求。在採購上來講的話，巡飛彈1型平均的價格大概300萬，實際上跟彈簧刀的無人機，價格都差不多，所以是不是可以考慮巡飛彈1型，針對這個來進行採購跟研發？"],["顧部長立雄：我們都是雙軌並行的，也就是說，外購的部分，我們需要，剛剛已經講過了，我們現在要增購的並不是人員殺傷型的300，我們要增購的是ALTIUS-600，它是反裝甲型的。中科院現在做的是比較接近300的部分，所以就這個部分，我們沒有要再增加採購，中科院300的部分，如果通過作戰測評之後，我們當然也可以再進行量產，這樣子。"],["黃委員仁：在6月26號的時候，我就關心過美國出售彈簧刀300及ALTIUS-600無人機，你當時也回答說我們會雙管其下、同步採購，但本席發現除了陸軍已經採購300架中科院的巡飛彈1型外，國軍沒有再採購任何一架巡飛彈1型，結果陸軍一口氣就向美國採購大量的100枚無人機飛彈，還多編了60億，準備後續採購，這就看出當時本席的擔心完全正確，而且你當時有講說是同步進行的來採購，所以問題就是出在這個地方，是不是？6月26號的時候，我在這個地方特別質詢你，你當時回答我是同步進行採購，但是今天就出了這個問題，剛剛我所報告的。部長，所以你要重新的調整思考一下，好不好？針對我們今天編了115億，這個問題從哪裡來？而且美國的發價書裡面已經很明確的是55億，針對685架的人員殺傷型，以及291架的反裝甲型，這個狀況很清楚是55億，我們為什麼編了115億？","另外，我特別要講的是，第一個，我們有沒有在計畫裡面依照預算法的精神，在計畫的時候，一定要符合預算的精神，那是不是有違反了預算書的精神？另外，就是我特別講的，預算是跟著計畫走的，我們現在已經有後續的採購計畫了嗎？還有想買多少量，需求書提了嗎？美方提供的發價書有了嗎？所以這個就是你為什麼編115億的狀況，而且今天美國發價書裡面才55億而已，為什麼你就用這個後續來編115億？今天我講的是，第一個，採購計畫有了嗎？第二，想買多少數量，有了嗎？還有需求書提了嗎？這個就是你們今天的，美方有沒有提出發價書115億的預算？你來回答。"],["謝局長其賢：委員好，我是主計局局長，就委員所提到第一個問題，預算編列的程序是否符合相關的法規，就預算法的規範，我們國防部編列的所有軍事投資建案，不管是55億的需求，或是115億的需求，我們都完成相關的建案程序，也因為它超過10億元以上，非極機密的案子，我們都報奉行政院核定之後，奉行政院分配預算來編列，並將相關的預算書表送請大院來審查，就預算的編列程序是沒有問題的。以上跟委員報告。"],["黃委員仁：剛剛所有的委員都已經提出對115億的疑問，你居然還說這樣是合法的！剛剛我已經講出來了嘛……"],["謝局長其賢：從55億到115億……"],["黃委員仁：請問一下，你現在回答我！請問一下，你有沒有採購的計畫？第二個，需要買多少量？第三，需求書提了嗎？這個就是一個問題所在嘛，你們還提了理由一大堆！"],["黃司長文啓：報告委員，我們沒有提理由，我們在這邊跟委員……"],["黃委員仁：你們重新檢討了嗎？"],["黃司長文啓：我們這60億元都必須經過大院的同意才可以動支，如果大院不同意的話，當然我們只能按照原本的預算匡列來執行。"],["黃委員仁：對嘛！這樣的回答不就是給本席一個答案了嗎？你還找什麼理由！"],["主席：好，謝謝黃仁委員，各位請回。","接下來進行詢答的委員，鄭天財委員、鄭天財委員，鄭天財委員不在。","鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員，鄭正鈐委員不在。","接下來請王鴻薇委員進行詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":166,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-17","speakers":["王定宇","羅美玲","陳永康","徐巧芯","馬文君","陳冠廷","黃仁","王鴻薇","林憶君","沈伯洋","林楚茵","蘇清泉"],"page_start":141,"meetingDate":["2024-11-25"],"gazette_id":"11310501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310501_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部報告「獵鴞專案執行規劃」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"11310501_00009"}}}