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\"右\", \"start\": 335.688, \"end\": 335.828, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 335.828, \"end\": 335.968, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"言\", \"start\": 335.968, \"end\": 336.148, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 336.148, \"end\": 336.168, \"score\": 0.718}, {\"word\": \"王\", \"start\": 336.943, \"end\": 336.963, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"鴻\"}, {\"word\": \"薇\", \"start\": 336.963, \"end\": 336.983, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 336.983, \"end\": 337.003, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,009 --> 00:00:01,029\n部長請部長我覺得剛才黃仁委員他質疑的確實很有道理如果今天我們購買武器那麼美方他的發價書是55億但是我們卻要編115億是不是代表我們的這些國防的採購\n\n2\n00:00:27,274 --> 00:00:42,672\n是要五毛給一塊呢所以這些相關的就是我們的預算的編列不是讓立法院給空白授權書啊那不然的話剛才講的就是說要看那個大院同不同意\n\n3\n00:00:43,453 --> 00:01:07,507\n那你總是要有個理由而不是要有空白授權書我覺得這點非常重要我們都知道我們建制國防加強防衛的重要性但是要五毛給一塊的事情我們不要做這個冤大頭好不好另外請教部長對不起時間暫停一下我再請我們的海軍海軍司令部參謀長\n\n4\n00:01:10,964 --> 00:01:34,374\n所以公委員報告這剛剛講的就是說當然因為是預算編制期整的關係他所以我們編那現在事實上只要55億所以對那你編了150億那60億怎麼辦要不要再動60億這個就是大院可以決定如果大院不同那你們也要可以提出來啊是不是預算就應該保留才對預算是不是該保留人家要55億我們編115億這60億欸60億是很大的錢欸\n\n5\n00:01:38,255 --> 00:01:54,827\n對,大院如果不同意的話,那大院就會把它刪減,那就結繳國庫,那大院如果同意我們增購的話,那我們就再增購。你們是不是也應該辦保留預算啊?好,另外請教一下,我們在...報告委員,現在委員釐清,這個預算還沒有編,所以沒有保留的問題。你們不是編在114年度嗎?\n\n6\n00:02:02,366 --> 00:02:11,651\n包委員我們預算是每年會編一次那目前我們編列的是114年的預算所以你們建議直接砍掉就是了所以現在您看到了60億你要買什麼啊你到底要買什麼人家說55億賣給你你要編115億欸天底下有這麼冤大頭的事情嗎大院如果同意的話我們會把預算額度以外的錢購買反裝甲型然後你們再來增加對不對\n\n7\n00:02:29,529 --> 00:02:35,951\n這預算可以這樣子編法嗎?我時間有限,我要問一下就是有關於我們潛艦國造原型艦的問題那麼在預算書上,本來我們有關於第二艦代原型艦的籌建預算,114年度是編列25億\n\n8\n00:02:46,155 --> 00:02:53,042\n但是明年度的預算把這25億又把它拆成12345114到118年度請問一下為什麼114年度的預算又要把它分拆到118年度請問我們的原型艦出現什麼樣的問題我們的預算為什麼要做這樣的更動\n\n9\n00:03:07,321 --> 00:03:16,577\n主要就是因為那個魚雷Mark48的那個重型的魚雷的交互的這個期程而延後的關係而不是我們建造的關係\n\n10\n00:03:17,523 --> 00:03:44,534\n所以是魚雷這一部分25億都是魚雷的部分嗎是的都是嗎5億是屬於船廠那其他的21屬於魚雷的那因為魚雷要分批的這個所以這樣可以這樣解讀嗎原來是應該114年度執行完畢的那現在因為魚雷交貨的延宕所以要延到118年度是這樣嗎是的他魚雷因為他因為\n\n11\n00:03:45,854 --> 00:03:47,314\n郭喜說海昆號的星降有一樣設備製造商不賣了\n\n12\n00:04:10,999 --> 00:04:22,790\n他直接說是德國,其實過去都沒有講是德國嘛,他這個有泄密之嫌。他說呢,我們找,買不到心臟,所以現在有人來問我說,啊是不是呢,前件的這個心臟沒有了,我們換卡車的心臟,我說不會這麼離譜嘛。所以請問一下部長,請問郭喜,他所講的到底是假消息還是他泄密了?\n\n13\n00:04:34,921 --> 00:04:48,949\n這很重要喔!最近大家都在傳說我們那個心臟買不到喔!然後要換變成是卡車的心臟喔!請再要回答我想第一個說明我想郭喜的這個部分並非屬實喔!那第二個呢我們有關所有有關潛艦的裝備使用都採護士商員的評選所以來降低風險那關鍵的裝備商都是屬於受保護而不以對外公開的\n\n14\n00:05:00,236 --> 00:05:16,079\n你講的德國製造商是不是事實?他有沒有洩密?我只能解藥回答他講的並不是事實。他如果有洩密的話要去辦他,對不對?你們去洩密,立法委員你們都去辦立法委員,都去告立法委員,如果郭喜有洩密的話為什麼不去告郭喜呢?部長,如果有洩密要不要告郭喜?\n\n15\n00:05:25,359 --> 00:05:36,168\n因為他講的這個內容在我看起來他沒有講得非常的清楚到底是講哪些什麼哪些的項目是什麼你這樣子是有顧左右而言他\n\n16\n00:05:36,943 --> 00:05:37,003\n王鴻薇委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9\t1029\t部長請部長我覺得剛才黃仁委員他質疑的確實很有道理如果今天我們購買武器那麼美方他的發價書是55億但是我們卻要編115億是不是代表我們的這些國防的採購\n27274\t42672\t是要五毛給一塊呢所以這些相關的就是我們的預算的編列不是讓立法院給空白授權書啊那不然的話剛才講的就是說要看那個大院同不同意\n43453\t67507\t那你總是要有個理由而不是要有空白授權書我覺得這點非常重要我們都知道我們建制國防加強防衛的重要性但是要五毛給一塊的事情我們不要做這個冤大頭好不好另外請教部長對不起時間暫停一下我再請我們的海軍海軍司令部參謀長\n70964\t94374\t所以公委員報告這剛剛講的就是說當然因為是預算編制期整的關係他所以我們編那現在事實上只要55億所以對那你編了150億那60億怎麼辦要不要再動60億這個就是大院可以決定如果大院不同那你們也要可以提出來啊是不是預算就應該保留才對預算是不是該保留人家要55億我們編115億這60億欸60億是很大的錢欸\n98255\t114827\t對,大院如果不同意的話,那大院就會把它刪減,那就結繳國庫,那大院如果同意我們增購的話,那我們就再增購。你們是不是也應該辦保留預算啊?好,另外請教一下,我們在...報告委員,現在委員釐清,這個預算還沒有編,所以沒有保留的問題。你們不是編在114年度嗎?\n122366\t131651\t包委員我們預算是每年會編一次那目前我們編列的是114年的預算所以你們建議直接砍掉就是了所以現在您看到了60億你要買什麼啊你到底要買什麼人家說55億賣給你你要編115億欸天底下有這麼冤大頭的事情嗎大院如果同意的話我們會把預算額度以外的錢購買反裝甲型然後你們再來增加對不對\n149529\t155951\t這預算可以這樣子編法嗎?我時間有限,我要問一下就是有關於我們潛艦國造原型艦的問題那麼在預算書上,本來我們有關於第二艦代原型艦的籌建預算,114年度是編列25億\n166155\t173042\t但是明年度的預算把這25億又把它拆成12345114到118年度請問一下為什麼114年度的預算又要把它分拆到118年度請問我們的原型艦出現什麼樣的問題我們的預算為什麼要做這樣的更動\n187321\t196577\t主要就是因為那個魚雷Mark48的那個重型的魚雷的交互的這個期程而延後的關係而不是我們建造的關係\n197523\t224534\t所以是魚雷這一部分25億都是魚雷的部分嗎是的都是嗎5億是屬於船廠那其他的21屬於魚雷的那因為魚雷要分批的這個所以這樣可以這樣解讀嗎原來是應該114年度執行完畢的那現在因為魚雷交貨的延宕所以要延到118年度是這樣嗎是的他魚雷因為他因為\n225854\t227314\t郭喜說海昆號的星降有一樣設備製造商不賣了\n250999\t262790\t他直接說是德國,其實過去都沒有講是德國嘛,他這個有泄密之嫌。他說呢,我們找,買不到心臟,所以現在有人來問我說,啊是不是呢,前件的這個心臟沒有了,我們換卡車的心臟,我說不會這麼離譜嘛。所以請問一下部長,請問郭喜,他所講的到底是假消息還是他泄密了?\n274921\t288949\t這很重要喔!最近大家都在傳說我們那個心臟買不到喔!然後要換變成是卡車的心臟喔!請再要回答我想第一個說明我想郭喜的這個部分並非屬實喔!那第二個呢我們有關所有有關潛艦的裝備使用都採護士商員的評選所以來降低風險那關鍵的裝備商都是屬於受保護而不以對外公開的\n300236\t316079\t你講的德國製造商是不是事實?他有沒有洩密?我只能解藥回答他講的並不是事實。他如果有洩密的話要去辦他,對不對?你們去洩密,立法委員你們都去辦立法委員,都去告立法委員,如果郭喜有洩密的話為什麼不去告郭喜呢?部長,如果有洩密要不要告郭喜?\n325359\t336168\t因為他講的這個內容在我看起來他沒有講得非常的清楚到底是講哪些什麼哪些的項目是什麼你這樣子是有顧左右而言他\n336943\t337003\t王鴻薇委員\n","txt":"部長請部長我覺得剛才黃仁委員他質疑的確實很有道理如果今天我們購買武器那麼美方他的發價書是55億但是我們卻要編115億是不是代表我們的這些國防的採購\n是要五毛給一塊呢所以這些相關的就是我們的預算的編列不是讓立法院給空白授權書啊那不然的話剛才講的就是說要看那個大院同不同意\n那你總是要有個理由而不是要有空白授權書我覺得這點非常重要我們都知道我們建制國防加強防衛的重要性但是要五毛給一塊的事情我們不要做這個冤大頭好不好另外請教部長對不起時間暫停一下我再請我們的海軍海軍司令部參謀長\n所以公委員報告這剛剛講的就是說當然因為是預算編制期整的關係他所以我們編那現在事實上只要55億所以對那你編了150億那60億怎麼辦要不要再動60億這個就是大院可以決定如果大院不同那你們也要可以提出來啊是不是預算就應該保留才對預算是不是該保留人家要55億我們編115億這60億欸60億是很大的錢欸\n對,大院如果不同意的話,那大院就會把它刪減,那就結繳國庫,那大院如果同意我們增購的話,那我們就再增購。你們是不是也應該辦保留預算啊?好,另外請教一下,我們在...報告委員,現在委員釐清,這個預算還沒有編,所以沒有保留的問題。你們不是編在114年度嗎?\n包委員我們預算是每年會編一次那目前我們編列的是114年的預算所以你們建議直接砍掉就是了所以現在您看到了60億你要買什麼啊你到底要買什麼人家說55億賣給你你要編115億欸天底下有這麼冤大頭的事情嗎大院如果同意的話我們會把預算額度以外的錢購買反裝甲型然後你們再來增加對不對\n這預算可以這樣子編法嗎?我時間有限,我要問一下就是有關於我們潛艦國造原型艦的問題那麼在預算書上,本來我們有關於第二艦代原型艦的籌建預算,114年度是編列25億\n但是明年度的預算把這25億又把它拆成12345114到118年度請問一下為什麼114年度的預算又要把它分拆到118年度請問我們的原型艦出現什麼樣的問題我們的預算為什麼要做這樣的更動\n主要就是因為那個魚雷Mark48的那個重型的魚雷的交互的這個期程而延後的關係而不是我們建造的關係\n所以是魚雷這一部分25億都是魚雷的部分嗎是的都是嗎5億是屬於船廠那其他的21屬於魚雷的那因為魚雷要分批的這個所以這樣可以這樣解讀嗎原來是應該114年度執行完畢的那現在因為魚雷交貨的延宕所以要延到118年度是這樣嗎是的他魚雷因為他因為\n郭喜說海昆號的星降有一樣設備製造商不賣了\n他直接說是德國,其實過去都沒有講是德國嘛,他這個有泄密之嫌。他說呢,我們找,買不到心臟,所以現在有人來問我說,啊是不是呢,前件的這個心臟沒有了,我們換卡車的心臟,我說不會這麼離譜嘛。所以請問一下部長,請問郭喜,他所講的到底是假消息還是他泄密了?\n這很重要喔!最近大家都在傳說我們那個心臟買不到喔!然後要換變成是卡車的心臟喔!請再要回答我想第一個說明我想郭喜的這個部分並非屬實喔!那第二個呢我們有關所有有關潛艦的裝備使用都採護士商員的評選所以來降低風險那關鍵的裝備商都是屬於受保護而不以對外公開的\n你講的德國製造商是不是事實?他有沒有洩密?我只能解藥回答他講的並不是事實。他如果有洩密的話要去辦他,對不對?你們去洩密,立法委員你們都去辦立法委員,都去告立法委員,如果郭喜有洩密的話為什麼不去告郭喜呢?部長,如果有洩密要不要告郭喜?\n因為他講的這個內容在我看起來他沒有講得非常的清楚到底是講哪些什麼哪些的項目是什麼你這樣子是有顧左右而言他\n王鴻薇委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.009 --> 00:01.029\n部長請部長我覺得剛才黃仁委員他質疑的確實很有道理如果今天我們購買武器那麼美方他的發價書是55億但是我們卻要編115億是不是代表我們的這些國防的採購\n\n00:27.274 --> 00:42.672\n是要五毛給一塊呢所以這些相關的就是我們的預算的編列不是讓立法院給空白授權書啊那不然的話剛才講的就是說要看那個大院同不同意\n\n00:43.453 --> 01:07.507\n那你總是要有個理由而不是要有空白授權書我覺得這點非常重要我們都知道我們建制國防加強防衛的重要性但是要五毛給一塊的事情我們不要做這個冤大頭好不好另外請教部長對不起時間暫停一下我再請我們的海軍海軍司令部參謀長\n\n01:10.964 --> 01:34.374\n所以公委員報告這剛剛講的就是說當然因為是預算編制期整的關係他所以我們編那現在事實上只要55億所以對那你編了150億那60億怎麼辦要不要再動60億這個就是大院可以決定如果大院不同那你們也要可以提出來啊是不是預算就應該保留才對預算是不是該保留人家要55億我們編115億這60億欸60億是很大的錢欸\n\n01:38.255 --> 01:54.827\n對,大院如果不同意的話,那大院就會把它刪減,那就結繳國庫,那大院如果同意我們增購的話,那我們就再增購。你們是不是也應該辦保留預算啊?好,另外請教一下,我們在...報告委員,現在委員釐清,這個預算還沒有編,所以沒有保留的問題。你們不是編在114年度嗎?\n\n02:02.366 --> 02:11.651\n包委員我們預算是每年會編一次那目前我們編列的是114年的預算所以你們建議直接砍掉就是了所以現在您看到了60億你要買什麼啊你到底要買什麼人家說55億賣給你你要編115億欸天底下有這麼冤大頭的事情嗎大院如果同意的話我們會把預算額度以外的錢購買反裝甲型然後你們再來增加對不對\n\n02:29.529 --> 02:35.951\n這預算可以這樣子編法嗎?我時間有限,我要問一下就是有關於我們潛艦國造原型艦的問題那麼在預算書上,本來我們有關於第二艦代原型艦的籌建預算,114年度是編列25億\n\n02:46.155 --> 02:53.042\n但是明年度的預算把這25億又把它拆成12345114到118年度請問一下為什麼114年度的預算又要把它分拆到118年度請問我們的原型艦出現什麼樣的問題我們的預算為什麼要做這樣的更動\n\n03:07.321 --> 03:16.577\n主要就是因為那個魚雷Mark48的那個重型的魚雷的交互的這個期程而延後的關係而不是我們建造的關係\n\n03:17.523 --> 03:44.534\n所以是魚雷這一部分25億都是魚雷的部分嗎是的都是嗎5億是屬於船廠那其他的21屬於魚雷的那因為魚雷要分批的這個所以這樣可以這樣解讀嗎原來是應該114年度執行完畢的那現在因為魚雷交貨的延宕所以要延到118年度是這樣嗎是的他魚雷因為他因為\n\n03:45.854 --> 03:47.314\n郭喜說海昆號的星降有一樣設備製造商不賣了\n\n04:10.999 --> 04:22.790\n他直接說是德國,其實過去都沒有講是德國嘛,他這個有泄密之嫌。他說呢,我們找,買不到心臟,所以現在有人來問我說,啊是不是呢,前件的這個心臟沒有了,我們換卡車的心臟,我說不會這麼離譜嘛。所以請問一下部長,請問郭喜,他所講的到底是假消息還是他泄密了?\n\n04:34.921 --> 04:48.949\n這很重要喔!最近大家都在傳說我們那個心臟買不到喔!然後要換變成是卡車的心臟喔!請再要回答我想第一個說明我想郭喜的這個部分並非屬實喔!那第二個呢我們有關所有有關潛艦的裝備使用都採護士商員的評選所以來降低風險那關鍵的裝備商都是屬於受保護而不以對外公開的\n\n05:00.236 --> 05:16.079\n你講的德國製造商是不是事實?他有沒有洩密?我只能解藥回答他講的並不是事實。他如果有洩密的話要去辦他,對不對?你們去洩密,立法委員你們都去辦立法委員,都去告立法委員,如果郭喜有洩密的話為什麼不去告郭喜呢?部長,如果有洩密要不要告郭喜?\n\n05:25.359 --> 05:36.168\n因為他講的這個內容在我看起來他沒有講得非常的清楚到底是講哪些什麼哪些的項目是什麼你這樣子是有顧左右而言他\n\n05:36.943 --> 05:37.003\n王鴻薇委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.009,"end":1.029,"text":"部長請部長我覺得剛才黃仁委員他質疑的確實很有道理如果今天我們購買武器那麼美方他的發價書是55億但是我們卻要編115億是不是代表我們的這些國防的採購"},{"start":27.274,"end":42.672,"text":"是要五毛給一塊呢所以這些相關的就是我們的預算的編列不是讓立法院給空白授權書啊那不然的話剛才講的就是說要看那個大院同不同意"},{"start":43.453,"end":67.507,"text":"那你總是要有個理由而不是要有空白授權書我覺得這點非常重要我們都知道我們建制國防加強防衛的重要性但是要五毛給一塊的事情我們不要做這個冤大頭好不好另外請教部長對不起時間暫停一下我再請我們的海軍海軍司令部參謀長"},{"start":70.964,"end":94.374,"text":"所以公委員報告這剛剛講的就是說當然因為是預算編制期整的關係他所以我們編那現在事實上只要55億所以對那你編了150億那60億怎麼辦要不要再動60億這個就是大院可以決定如果大院不同那你們也要可以提出來啊是不是預算就應該保留才對預算是不是該保留人家要55億我們編115億這60億欸60億是很大的錢欸"},{"start":98.255,"end":114.827,"text":"對,大院如果不同意的話,那大院就會把它刪減,那就結繳國庫,那大院如果同意我們增購的話,那我們就再增購。你們是不是也應該辦保留預算啊?好,另外請教一下,我們在...報告委員,現在委員釐清,這個預算還沒有編,所以沒有保留的問題。你們不是編在114年度嗎?"},{"start":122.366,"end":131.651,"text":"包委員我們預算是每年會編一次那目前我們編列的是114年的預算所以你們建議直接砍掉就是了所以現在您看到了60億你要買什麼啊你到底要買什麼人家說55億賣給你你要編115億欸天底下有這麼冤大頭的事情嗎大院如果同意的話我們會把預算額度以外的錢購買反裝甲型然後你們再來增加對不對"},{"start":149.529,"end":155.951,"text":"這預算可以這樣子編法嗎?我時間有限,我要問一下就是有關於我們潛艦國造原型艦的問題那麼在預算書上,本來我們有關於第二艦代原型艦的籌建預算,114年度是編列25億"},{"start":166.155,"end":173.042,"text":"但是明年度的預算把這25億又把它拆成12345114到118年度請問一下為什麼114年度的預算又要把它分拆到118年度請問我們的原型艦出現什麼樣的問題我們的預算為什麼要做這樣的更動"},{"start":187.321,"end":196.577,"text":"主要就是因為那個魚雷Mark48的那個重型的魚雷的交互的這個期程而延後的關係而不是我們建造的關係"},{"start":197.523,"end":224.534,"text":"所以是魚雷這一部分25億都是魚雷的部分嗎是的都是嗎5億是屬於船廠那其他的21屬於魚雷的那因為魚雷要分批的這個所以這樣可以這樣解讀嗎原來是應該114年度執行完畢的那現在因為魚雷交貨的延宕所以要延到118年度是這樣嗎是的他魚雷因為他因為"},{"start":225.854,"end":227.314,"text":"郭喜說海昆號的星降有一樣設備製造商不賣了"},{"start":250.999,"end":262.79,"text":"他直接說是德國,其實過去都沒有講是德國嘛,他這個有泄密之嫌。他說呢,我們找,買不到心臟,所以現在有人來問我說,啊是不是呢,前件的這個心臟沒有了,我們換卡車的心臟,我說不會這麼離譜嘛。所以請問一下部長,請問郭喜,他所講的到底是假消息還是他泄密了?"},{"start":274.921,"end":288.949,"text":"這很重要喔!最近大家都在傳說我們那個心臟買不到喔!然後要換變成是卡車的心臟喔!請再要回答我想第一個說明我想郭喜的這個部分並非屬實喔!那第二個呢我們有關所有有關潛艦的裝備使用都採護士商員的評選所以來降低風險那關鍵的裝備商都是屬於受保護而不以對外公開的"},{"start":300.236,"end":316.079,"text":"你講的德國製造商是不是事實?他有沒有洩密?我只能解藥回答他講的並不是事實。他如果有洩密的話要去辦他,對不對?你們去洩密,立法委員你們都去辦立法委員,都去告立法委員,如果郭喜有洩密的話為什麼不去告郭喜呢?部長,如果有洩密要不要告郭喜?"},{"start":325.359,"end":336.168,"text":"因為他講的這個內容在我看起來他沒有講得非常的清楚到底是講哪些什麼哪些的項目是什麼你這樣子是有顧左右而言他"},{"start":336.943,"end":337.003,"text":"王鴻薇委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":325,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（10時22分）謝謝主席，我先請部長。"],["主席：部長請。"],["顧部長立雄：王委員好。"],["王委員鴻薇：部長，我覺得剛才黃仁委員他質疑的確實很有道理，如果今天我們購買武器，美方它的發價書是55億，但是我們卻要編115億，是不是代表我們的這些國防採購是要五毛給一塊呢？所以這些相關的，就是我們的預算編列不是讓立法院給空白授權書啊，不然的話，剛才講說要看本院同不同意，那你總是要有個理由，而不是要一個空白授權書，我覺得這一點非常重要。我們都知道我們建置國防，加強防衛的重要性，但是要五毛給一塊的事情，我們不要做這這個冤大頭好不好？","另外，請教部長，對不起，時間暫停一下，我再請我們的海軍司令部參謀長。"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，剛剛講的就是說，因為預算編製期程的關係，所以我們是這樣編，現在事實上只要55億，所以要不要再……"],["王委員鴻薇：你編了115億，那60億怎麼辦？"],["顧部長立雄：要不要再動支60億，這個就是大院可以決定的，如果大院不同意……"],["王委員鴻薇：那你們也可以提出來啊，是不是這個預算就應該保留才對？"],["顧部長立雄：對、對、對，所以詳細的需求……"],["王委員鴻薇：預算是不是該保留？人家要55億，我們編115億，多了60億，60億是很大的錢耶。"],["顧部長立雄：對，大院如果不同意的話，大院就會把它刪減，那就解繳國庫。大院如果同意我們增購的話，我們就再增購。"],["王委員鴻薇：你們是不是也應該辦保留預算啦。","好，另外請教一下，我們在……"],["黃司長文啓：報告委員，向委員釐清，這個預算還沒有編，所以沒有保留的問題。"],["王委員鴻薇：你們不是編在114年度嗎？"],["黃司長文啓：報告委員，我們預算是每年會編一次，目前我們編列的是114年的預算……"],["王委員鴻薇：所以你們建議直接砍掉就是了？直接砍掉！"],["黃司長文啓：所以現在您看到的……"],["王委員鴻薇：60億你要買什麼啊？你到底要買什麼？人家說55億賣給你，你要編115億！欸，天底下有這麼冤大頭的事情嗎？"],["黃司長文啓：大院如果同意的話，我們會把預算額度以外的錢購買反裝甲型ALTIUS-600……"],["王委員鴻薇：然後你們再來增加對不對？"],["黃司長文啓：這是反裝甲型。"],["王委員鴻薇：預算可以這樣子編法嗎？","好，我時間有限，我要問一下有關於潛艦國造原型艦的問題，在預算書上本來有關第二階段原型艦的籌建預算，114年度是編列25億，但是明年度的預算又把這25億拆成114年度到118年度。請問一下，為什麼114年度的預算又要分拆到118年度？請問我們原型艦出現什麼樣的問題？我們的預算為什麼要做這樣的更動？"],["顧部長立雄：主要就是因為Mk-48重型魚雷交付的期程延後的關係，而不是我們建造的關係。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以是魚雷，這25億都是魚雷的部分嗎？"],["邱參謀長俊榮：是的。"],["王委員鴻薇：都是嗎？"],["邱參謀長俊榮：報告，5億屬於船廠，其他的20億屬於魚雷的，因為魚雷要分批地繳交……"],["王委員鴻薇：所以可以這樣解讀嗎？原來應該是114年度執行完畢的，現在因為魚雷交貨的延宕，所以要延到118年度，是這樣嗎？"],["邱參謀長俊榮：是的，因為魚雷的生產線還有國際戰爭的影響，必須要分批供貨，我們交艦是明年11月，沒有問題，但是魚雷的部分必須分批交，到118年結案。"],["王委員鴻薇：不要延長。另外，因為我時間有限，我想請問一下，本來我要問你們有關於海測的問題，但是我請教一下，郭璽說海鯤號的「心臟」有一樣設備製造商不賣了，他直接說是德國，其實過去都沒有講是德國，他這個有洩密之嫌。他說我們買不到「心臟」，所以現在有人來問我「是不是潛艦的「心臟」沒有了，我們換卡車的「心臟」？」我說不會這麼離譜。所以請問一下部長，郭璽所講的到底是假消息，還是他洩密了？這很重要喔！最近大家都在傳我們「心臟」買不到，然後要換成是卡車的「心臟」。"],["主席：請摘要回答。"],["顧部長立雄：第一個說明是，我想郭璽這個部分並非屬實。第二個……"],["王委員鴻薇：所以它是假消息？"],["顧部長立雄：有關潛艦的裝備，我們都採複式商源的評選來降低風險，關鍵的裝備商都是屬於受保護而不宜對外公開的，我只能夠……"],["王委員鴻薇：所以他講的德國製造商是不是事實？他有沒有洩密啊？"],["顧部長立雄：我只能夠簡要地回答，他講的並不是事實。"],["王委員鴻薇：他如果有洩密的話，要去辦他啊！對不對？你們都去辦立法委員、都去告立法委員，如果郭璽有洩密的話，為什麼不去告郭璽呢？"],["顧部長立雄：我想我們會……"],["王委員鴻薇：部長，如果有洩密，要不要告郭璽？"],["顧部長立雄：因為他講的內容，在我看起來，他沒有講得非常清楚，到底是講哪些的項目是什麼……"],["王委員鴻薇：你這樣子是顧左右而言他。"],["顧部長立雄：我沒有顧左右而言他。"],["王委員鴻薇：我的要求就是，第一……"],["顧部長立雄：當然，我們會來審查他相關的……"],["王委員鴻薇：因為有關郭璽的指稱，看不到你們國防部對外的說法，但是這一點很重要。第二個，如果郭璽有洩密，你們就應該去辦洩密，好不好？"],["主席：謝謝王鴻薇委員。"],["顧部長立雄：好，我們會來檢討、研議。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，謝謝。"],["主席：本席也提醒國防部，在機密的項目上去承認或否認，其實都是不能做的事情。潛艦在外交及國防委員會都是機密審查，不管否認或承認，因為全世界會造潛艦的就那幾家，如果否認了，用消去法，等於方便人家去掌握。"],["王委員鴻薇：這個都已經見諸媒體了，都在報導了，對不對？"],["主席：媒體講的跟軍方講的是兩件事情。","接下來進行詢答的委員蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員，蘇清泉委員不在。","洪孟楷委員、洪孟楷委員，洪孟楷委員不在。","翁曉玲委員、翁曉玲委員，翁曉玲委員不在。","羅明才委員，羅明才委員不在。","今日已登記質詢的委員除不在場者外，均已發言完畢，報告及詢答結束。本日會議有林憶君委員、沈伯洋委員、林楚茵委員、蘇清泉委員提出書面質詢，請列入紀錄，並刊登公報，請相關機關以書面於兩週內答復。委員口頭質詢未及答復部分或要求補充資料者，亦請相關單位以書面於兩週內提供，委員另約定期限者從其所定。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":166,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-17","speakers":["王定宇","羅美玲","陳永康","徐巧芯","馬文君","陳冠廷","黃仁","王鴻薇","林憶君","沈伯洋","林楚茵","蘇清泉"],"page_start":141,"meetingDate":["2024-11-25"],"gazette_id":"11310501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310501_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部報告「獵鴞專案執行規劃」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"11310501_00009"}}}