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00:00:37,745\n你好那這個剛才也有委員提到了這個這個中華隊選手回台灣之後的階級維安問題那本席在這邊呢也有非常多的疑問想要跟這個維安的部分去做討論賴清德總統呢在11月24號也就是中華隊奪冠的那一天呢他下令什麼最高規格的階級維安局有收到這樣子的一個下令嗎\n\n3\n00:00:39,332 --> 00:01:07,973\n國安局有抽到這樣一下嗎?就賴總統說的最高規格階級,你們知道這件事嗎?欸,你不回答是什麼意思啊?那個,這個部分我們特勤中心沒有收到這樣的訊息。所以你們也不看新聞的是嗎?你們就把它當成一般的階級。我們很重視。你們很重視,但是你們沒有聽到我們的我國元首說,這一次的階級要用最高規格。不知道,你們不知道這件事。\n\n4\n00:01:09,727 --> 00:01:18,697\n我看你那麼久都沒有回答我我已經心裡有數了你也不用再硬想你剛剛說你不知道嘛對吧\n\n5\n00:01:22,984 --> 00:01:24,305\n我可以這麼說嗎?我這樣的陳述是事實吧?\n\n6\n00:01:42,054 --> 00:01:57,266\n是,那個委員,因為這個部分是我們特定中心在負責,我是不是請我們副指揮官來回答?當然可以,可是我要問的就是說,你是副局長啊,因為今天局長不在,不然我想問局長啊,但是因為我先第一個問題是強調賴總統他說的最高規格,\n\n7\n00:02:01,189 --> 00:02:25,679\n那到底國安局我們在特勤上面有沒有接到指示是說這是要用最高規格我想總統說的最高規格是一個歡迎的規格但我們維安有維安的一個規格他是說階級要最高規格那當然跟維安有實際的連結跟關係啊那否則民眾當然自己會去那請問那最高規格是要怎麼樣\n\n8\n00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:40,887\n最高規格在國安局我就單講你們國安局的維安特勤好了什麼叫最高規格以你們國安跟特勤單位的最高規格來講的話你們可以做到什麼程度就是當天那樣的程度叫做最高規格嗎\n\n9\n00:02:44,974 --> 00:02:50,855\n總統應該不是指維安的規格他說階級他說整個階級的規格都要最高那你們是不是屬於階級裡面其中一環那你們是不是也等同於你們要用最高規格來做維安跟特勤還是你覺得說要總統講最高規格那不然他講的是誰嘛那當然特勤人員是一個副總統都要去了那你維安你還不用高規格的去那不是很離譜跟荒謬嗎\n\n10\n00:03:13,939 --> 00:03:28,514\n跟委員報告我們特請會看現地的情況現地的情況你現地的情況你就讓我看到了我們蕭美琴副總統後面衝出一群黃衣服的史稱黃金之亂這就是你們的最高規格嗎那委員我們是請可以請說\n\n11\n00:03:34,827 --> 00:03:57,306\n委員好,你剛羅委員也提過那我前面三段我就不講那我講兩個重點的部分第一個當天到現場現刊之後我們協同六個單位去做整個動線的會刊跟列寧場所的會刊那剛也解釋過外面就是管制區外他比較有安全顧慮我們放在管制區內這個都是經過安檢進到管制區內的包含下機的人都是經過安檢進到\n\n12\n00:03:59,768 --> 00:04:19,082\n對跟你講第二個部分就是我們一般合影的儀節分成兩個部分一個是計劃性一個是非計劃性那非計劃性就像總統到很多開放的場域很多熱情的民眾去要求那主辦單位跟辦公室的主任或者是秘書協調可能會因為很熱情的邀約\n\n13\n00:04:20,143 --> 00:04:21,384\n是得到這個許可的嗎?我們特警都會在這邊\n\n14\n00:04:49,715 --> 00:05:14,500\n這個是剛剛跟您報告的分成計劃性跟非計劃性對我知道我在後面那一段嘛但不是啊因為你就算非計劃性你也不可能讓所有人擠進來這仍然有危安問題啊您如果您看到那個片子前面那一段的話他們進去拉那個布條的時候我們的危安人員是在旁邊做戒護讓他安全的拉完布條之後同意他們進到裡面去跟他們合影但是\n\n15\n00:05:16,901 --> 00:05:32,372\n主辦單位跟總統辦公室都同意讓這群黃衣服的人在旁邊一起拍照,是這樣嗎?同意他們進來拍照,但是我們可以從影片看到,他們是從後面一直串到前面那在這個時候,特勤人員為什麼沒有動作?\n\n16\n00:05:33,298 --> 00:05:41,882\n我們的人那個都是管制區經過認證的管制區但是人家往前衝的時候那你們動作在哪裡我們從影片上面看到的是黃衣服的人甚至轉頭過來吼我們的維安人員叫你們退後欸那難道我們的維安人員就是特勤人員說一個大媽叫你退後你就退後了嗎那這樣的話不是很荒唐嗎我們從影片看到都是這樣欸你有看到那個影片嗎\n\n17\n00:06:01,131 --> 00:06:05,414\n所以你看你們根本這件事情從25號到現在已經要幾號了現在已經時間過了不知道幾號現在已經這麼多天大家都在討論了你連當天的影片你們都沒有重新檢討重新看過你們連你們的特勤人員被黃衣大媽吼了你們都不知道\n\n18\n00:06:22,472 --> 00:06:28,741\n這怎麼可以呢?那又又肩負著我們中華隊的球員的安全還肩負著我們蔡英文呃對不起喔蕭美琴副總統的安全那你們在旁邊你們只會在那邊看然後結果人家在那邊推擠在那邊撞那萬一跌倒了怎麼辦?\n\n19\n00:06:38,254 --> 00:06:52,226\n人家這個我們陳捷憲他本來小朋友的他找不到他的太太跟他的小孩子那這個這麼混亂的一個狀況我們的特勤人員就只在旁邊看沒有其他任何可以協助的地方我也是跟過馬前總統的\n\n20\n00:06:56,045 --> 00:07:06,729\n沒有看過這樣的維安情況啊都是事前當天會隔開人當有一些人他要就算他是要跟馬天宗握手或什麼這種情況的時候我國的元首的維安是他都會去幫忙擋的耶那今天那一群黃衣服的衝到前面衝到蕭美琴副總統旁邊衝到球員旁邊的時候你們為什麼沒有去幫忙擋\n\n21\n00:07:18,494 --> 00:07:32,828\n雖然是屬於非計劃性的但他的管道不對他沒有有秩序的排列他沒有按照依序走進來的這個情況他是從後面一窩蜂的人突然衝到前面去你們沒有要求他們先往後你們沒有說你們先往後一個一個來\n\n22\n00:07:34,409 --> 00:07:40,150\n特勤人員是這麼好講話的嗎我過去見過都不是這樣欸我見過的特勤人太多了從總統選舉、副總統選舉、馬前總統我從來沒有看過特勤人員這樣子欸用這麼鬆散的態度面對這件事情欸可以給我們的針對執行技巧的部分我們會再要求加強可能真的要很加強欸不然真的你就直接讓一群人就他們也是他們今天如果是壯漢說你們守不住就算了他們有一群就是\n\n23\n00:08:04,551 --> 00:08:14,714\n大媽啊你們特勤人員對他們毫無辦法我真的不解所以我覺得國安局在特勤人員這塊回去真的要鄭重檢討因為我們的國人看了之後都覺得非常傻眼怎麼會有大媽轉過頭來吼特勤人員然後特勤人員就哎呦後退了的情況你們這種情形怎麼讓大家能夠全民能夠相信你們可以保衛中華民國的總統副總統呢所以拜託拜託你回去把整個影片重看\n\n24\n00:08:34,642 --> 00:08:37,526\n從看過之後依序檢討我今天在這裡問有沒有被吼有沒有發生什麼事你們竟然回答不出來所有網友看影片都比你們看得還細代表你們沒有好好檢討今天來就知道應該會被問這個問題所以拜託一下好不好\n\n25\n00:08:51,024 --> 00:08:51,184\n謝謝徐委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n86\t667\t國安局副局長\n10665\t37745\t你好那這個剛才也有委員提到了這個這個中華隊選手回台灣之後的階級維安問題那本席在這邊呢也有非常多的疑問想要跟這個維安的部分去做討論賴清德總統呢在11月24號也就是中華隊奪冠的那一天呢他下令什麼最高規格的階級維安局有收到這樣子的一個下令嗎\n39332\t67973\t國安局有抽到這樣一下嗎?就賴總統說的最高規格階級,你們知道這件事嗎?欸,你不回答是什麼意思啊?那個,這個部分我們特勤中心沒有收到這樣的訊息。所以你們也不看新聞的是嗎?你們就把它當成一般的階級。我們很重視。你們很重視,但是你們沒有聽到我們的我國元首說,這一次的階級要用最高規格。不知道,你們不知道這件事。\n69727\t78697\t我看你那麼久都沒有回答我我已經心裡有數了你也不用再硬想你剛剛說你不知道嘛對吧\n82984\t84305\t我可以這麼說嗎?我這樣的陳述是事實吧?\n102054\t117266\t是,那個委員,因為這個部分是我們特定中心在負責,我是不是請我們副指揮官來回答?當然可以,可是我要問的就是說,你是副局長啊,因為今天局長不在,不然我想問局長啊,但是因為我先第一個問題是強調賴總統他說的最高規格,\n121189\t145679\t那到底國安局我們在特勤上面有沒有接到指示是說這是要用最高規格我想總統說的最高規格是一個歡迎的規格但我們維安有維安的一個規格他是說階級要最高規格那當然跟維安有實際的連結跟關係啊那否則民眾當然自己會去那請問那最高規格是要怎麼樣\n146639\t160887\t最高規格在國安局我就單講你們國安局的維安特勤好了什麼叫最高規格以你們國安跟特勤單位的最高規格來講的話你們可以做到什麼程度就是當天那樣的程度叫做最高規格嗎\n164974\t170855\t總統應該不是指維安的規格他說階級他說整個階級的規格都要最高那你們是不是屬於階級裡面其中一環那你們是不是也等同於你們要用最高規格來做維安跟特勤還是你覺得說要總統講最高規格那不然他講的是誰嘛那當然特勤人員是一個副總統都要去了那你維安你還不用高規格的去那不是很離譜跟荒謬嗎\n193939\t208514\t跟委員報告我們特請會看現地的情況現地的情況你現地的情況你就讓我看到了我們蕭美琴副總統後面衝出一群黃衣服的史稱黃金之亂這就是你們的最高規格嗎那委員我們是請可以請說\n214827\t237306\t委員好,你剛羅委員也提過那我前面三段我就不講那我講兩個重點的部分第一個當天到現場現刊之後我們協同六個單位去做整個動線的會刊跟列寧場所的會刊那剛也解釋過外面就是管制區外他比較有安全顧慮我們放在管制區內這個都是經過安檢進到管制區內的包含下機的人都是經過安檢進到\n239768\t259082\t對跟你講第二個部分就是我們一般合影的儀節分成兩個部分一個是計劃性一個是非計劃性那非計劃性就像總統到很多開放的場域很多熱情的民眾去要求那主辦單位跟辦公室的主任或者是秘書協調可能會因為很熱情的邀約\n260143\t261384\t是得到這個許可的嗎?我們特警都會在這邊\n289715\t314500\t這個是剛剛跟您報告的分成計劃性跟非計劃性對我知道我在後面那一段嘛但不是啊因為你就算非計劃性你也不可能讓所有人擠進來這仍然有危安問題啊您如果您看到那個片子前面那一段的話他們進去拉那個布條的時候我們的危安人員是在旁邊做戒護讓他安全的拉完布條之後同意他們進到裡面去跟他們合影但是\n316901\t332372\t主辦單位跟總統辦公室都同意讓這群黃衣服的人在旁邊一起拍照,是這樣嗎?同意他們進來拍照,但是我們可以從影片看到,他們是從後面一直串到前面那在這個時候,特勤人員為什麼沒有動作?\n333298\t341882\t我們的人那個都是管制區經過認證的管制區但是人家往前衝的時候那你們動作在哪裡我們從影片上面看到的是黃衣服的人甚至轉頭過來吼我們的維安人員叫你們退後欸那難道我們的維安人員就是特勤人員說一個大媽叫你退後你就退後了嗎那這樣的話不是很荒唐嗎我們從影片看到都是這樣欸你有看到那個影片嗎\n361131\t365414\t所以你看你們根本這件事情從25號到現在已經要幾號了現在已經時間過了不知道幾號現在已經這麼多天大家都在討論了你連當天的影片你們都沒有重新檢討重新看過你們連你們的特勤人員被黃衣大媽吼了你們都不知道\n382472\t388741\t這怎麼可以呢?那又 又肩負著我們中華隊的球員的安全還肩負著我們蔡英文 呃 對不起喔 蕭美琴副總統的安全那 你們在旁邊 你們只會在那邊看然後結果人家在那邊推擠 在那邊撞 那萬一跌倒了怎麼辦?\n398254\t412226\t人家這個我們陳捷憲他本來小朋友的他找不到他的太太跟他的小孩子那這個這麼混亂的一個狀況我們的特勤人員就只在旁邊看沒有其他任何可以協助的地方我也是跟過馬前總統的\n416045\t426729\t沒有看過這樣的維安情況啊都是事前當天會隔開人當有一些人他要就算他是要跟馬天宗握手或什麼這種情況的時候我國的元首的維安是他都會去幫忙擋的耶那今天那一群黃衣服的衝到前面衝到蕭美琴副總統旁邊衝到球員旁邊的時候你們為什麼沒有去幫忙擋\n438494\t452828\t雖然是屬於非計劃性的但他的管道不對他沒有有秩序的排列他沒有按照依序走進來的這個情況他是從後面一窩蜂的人突然衝到前面去你們沒有要求他們先往後你們沒有說你們先往後一個一個來\n454409\t460150\t特勤人員是這麼好講話的嗎我過去見過都不是這樣欸我見過的特勤人太多了從總統選舉、副總統選舉、馬前總統我從來沒有看過特勤人員這樣子欸用這麼鬆散的態度面對這件事情欸可以給我們的針對執行技巧的部分我們會再要求加強可能真的要很加強欸不然真的你就直接讓一群人就他們也是他們今天如果是壯漢說你們守不住就算了他們有一群就是\n484551\t494714\t大媽啊你們特勤人員對他們毫無辦法我真的不解所以我覺得國安局在特勤人員這塊回去真的要鄭重檢討因為我們的國人看了之後都覺得非常傻眼怎麼會有大媽轉過頭來吼特勤人員然後特勤人員就哎呦後退了的情況你們這種情形怎麼讓大家能夠全民能夠相信你們可以保衛中華民國的總統副總統呢所以拜託拜託你回去把整個影片重看\n514642\t517526\t從看過之後依序檢討我今天在這裡問有沒有被吼有沒有發生什麼事你們竟然回答不出來所有網友看影片都比你們看得還細代表你們沒有好好檢討今天來就知道應該會被問這個問題所以拜託一下好不好\n531024\t531184\t謝謝徐委員\n","txt":"國安局副局長\n你好那這個剛才也有委員提到了這個這個中華隊選手回台灣之後的階級維安問題那本席在這邊呢也有非常多的疑問想要跟這個維安的部分去做討論賴清德總統呢在11月24號也就是中華隊奪冠的那一天呢他下令什麼最高規格的階級維安局有收到這樣子的一個下令嗎\n國安局有抽到這樣一下嗎?就賴總統說的最高規格階級,你們知道這件事嗎?欸,你不回答是什麼意思啊?那個,這個部分我們特勤中心沒有收到這樣的訊息。所以你們也不看新聞的是嗎?你們就把它當成一般的階級。我們很重視。你們很重視,但是你們沒有聽到我們的我國元首說,這一次的階級要用最高規格。不知道,你們不知道這件事。\n我看你那麼久都沒有回答我我已經心裡有數了你也不用再硬想你剛剛說你不知道嘛對吧\n我可以這麼說嗎?我這樣的陳述是事實吧?\n是,那個委員,因為這個部分是我們特定中心在負責,我是不是請我們副指揮官來回答?當然可以,可是我要問的就是說,你是副局長啊,因為今天局長不在,不然我想問局長啊,但是因為我先第一個問題是強調賴總統他說的最高規格,\n那到底國安局我們在特勤上面有沒有接到指示是說這是要用最高規格我想總統說的最高規格是一個歡迎的規格但我們維安有維安的一個規格他是說階級要最高規格那當然跟維安有實際的連結跟關係啊那否則民眾當然自己會去那請問那最高規格是要怎麼樣\n最高規格在國安局我就單講你們國安局的維安特勤好了什麼叫最高規格以你們國安跟特勤單位的最高規格來講的話你們可以做到什麼程度就是當天那樣的程度叫做最高規格嗎\n總統應該不是指維安的規格他說階級他說整個階級的規格都要最高那你們是不是屬於階級裡面其中一環那你們是不是也等同於你們要用最高規格來做維安跟特勤還是你覺得說要總統講最高規格那不然他講的是誰嘛那當然特勤人員是一個副總統都要去了那你維安你還不用高規格的去那不是很離譜跟荒謬嗎\n跟委員報告我們特請會看現地的情況現地的情況你現地的情況你就讓我看到了我們蕭美琴副總統後面衝出一群黃衣服的史稱黃金之亂這就是你們的最高規格嗎那委員我們是請可以請說\n委員好,你剛羅委員也提過那我前面三段我就不講那我講兩個重點的部分第一個當天到現場現刊之後我們協同六個單位去做整個動線的會刊跟列寧場所的會刊那剛也解釋過外面就是管制區外他比較有安全顧慮我們放在管制區內這個都是經過安檢進到管制區內的包含下機的人都是經過安檢進到\n對跟你講第二個部分就是我們一般合影的儀節分成兩個部分一個是計劃性一個是非計劃性那非計劃性就像總統到很多開放的場域很多熱情的民眾去要求那主辦單位跟辦公室的主任或者是秘書協調可能會因為很熱情的邀約\n是得到這個許可的嗎?我們特警都會在這邊\n這個是剛剛跟您報告的分成計劃性跟非計劃性對我知道我在後面那一段嘛但不是啊因為你就算非計劃性你也不可能讓所有人擠進來這仍然有危安問題啊您如果您看到那個片子前面那一段的話他們進去拉那個布條的時候我們的危安人員是在旁邊做戒護讓他安全的拉完布條之後同意他們進到裡面去跟他們合影但是\n主辦單位跟總統辦公室都同意讓這群黃衣服的人在旁邊一起拍照,是這樣嗎?同意他們進來拍照,但是我們可以從影片看到,他們是從後面一直串到前面那在這個時候,特勤人員為什麼沒有動作?\n我們的人那個都是管制區經過認證的管制區但是人家往前衝的時候那你們動作在哪裡我們從影片上面看到的是黃衣服的人甚至轉頭過來吼我們的維安人員叫你們退後欸那難道我們的維安人員就是特勤人員說一個大媽叫你退後你就退後了嗎那這樣的話不是很荒唐嗎我們從影片看到都是這樣欸你有看到那個影片嗎\n所以你看你們根本這件事情從25號到現在已經要幾號了現在已經時間過了不知道幾號現在已經這麼多天大家都在討論了你連當天的影片你們都沒有重新檢討重新看過你們連你們的特勤人員被黃衣大媽吼了你們都不知道\n這怎麼可以呢?那又 又肩負著我們中華隊的球員的安全還肩負著我們蔡英文 呃 對不起喔 蕭美琴副總統的安全那 你們在旁邊 你們只會在那邊看然後結果人家在那邊推擠 在那邊撞 那萬一跌倒了怎麼辦?\n人家這個我們陳捷憲他本來小朋友的他找不到他的太太跟他的小孩子那這個這麼混亂的一個狀況我們的特勤人員就只在旁邊看沒有其他任何可以協助的地方我也是跟過馬前總統的\n沒有看過這樣的維安情況啊都是事前當天會隔開人當有一些人他要就算他是要跟馬天宗握手或什麼這種情況的時候我國的元首的維安是他都會去幫忙擋的耶那今天那一群黃衣服的衝到前面衝到蕭美琴副總統旁邊衝到球員旁邊的時候你們為什麼沒有去幫忙擋\n雖然是屬於非計劃性的但他的管道不對他沒有有秩序的排列他沒有按照依序走進來的這個情況他是從後面一窩蜂的人突然衝到前面去你們沒有要求他們先往後你們沒有說你們先往後一個一個來\n特勤人員是這麼好講話的嗎我過去見過都不是這樣欸我見過的特勤人太多了從總統選舉、副總統選舉、馬前總統我從來沒有看過特勤人員這樣子欸用這麼鬆散的態度面對這件事情欸可以給我們的針對執行技巧的部分我們會再要求加強可能真的要很加強欸不然真的你就直接讓一群人就他們也是他們今天如果是壯漢說你們守不住就算了他們有一群就是\n大媽啊你們特勤人員對他們毫無辦法我真的不解所以我覺得國安局在特勤人員這塊回去真的要鄭重檢討因為我們的國人看了之後都覺得非常傻眼怎麼會有大媽轉過頭來吼特勤人員然後特勤人員就哎呦後退了的情況你們這種情形怎麼讓大家能夠全民能夠相信你們可以保衛中華民國的總統副總統呢所以拜託拜託你回去把整個影片重看\n從看過之後依序檢討我今天在這裡問有沒有被吼有沒有發生什麼事你們竟然回答不出來所有網友看影片都比你們看得還細代表你們沒有好好檢討今天來就知道應該會被問這個問題所以拜託一下好不好\n謝謝徐委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.086 --> 00:00.667\n國安局副局長\n\n00:10.665 --> 00:37.745\n你好那這個剛才也有委員提到了這個這個中華隊選手回台灣之後的階級維安問題那本席在這邊呢也有非常多的疑問想要跟這個維安的部分去做討論賴清德總統呢在11月24號也就是中華隊奪冠的那一天呢他下令什麼最高規格的階級維安局有收到這樣子的一個下令嗎\n\n00:39.332 --> 01:07.973\n國安局有抽到這樣一下嗎?就賴總統說的最高規格階級,你們知道這件事嗎?欸,你不回答是什麼意思啊?那個,這個部分我們特勤中心沒有收到這樣的訊息。所以你們也不看新聞的是嗎?你們就把它當成一般的階級。我們很重視。你們很重視,但是你們沒有聽到我們的我國元首說,這一次的階級要用最高規格。不知道,你們不知道這件事。\n\n01:09.727 --> 01:18.697\n我看你那麼久都沒有回答我我已經心裡有數了你也不用再硬想你剛剛說你不知道嘛對吧\n\n01:22.984 --> 01:24.305\n我可以這麼說嗎?我這樣的陳述是事實吧?\n\n01:42.054 --> 01:57.266\n是,那個委員,因為這個部分是我們特定中心在負責,我是不是請我們副指揮官來回答?當然可以,可是我要問的就是說,你是副局長啊,因為今天局長不在,不然我想問局長啊,但是因為我先第一個問題是強調賴總統他說的最高規格,\n\n02:01.189 --> 02:25.679\n那到底國安局我們在特勤上面有沒有接到指示是說這是要用最高規格我想總統說的最高規格是一個歡迎的規格但我們維安有維安的一個規格他是說階級要最高規格那當然跟維安有實際的連結跟關係啊那否則民眾當然自己會去那請問那最高規格是要怎麼樣\n\n02:26.639 --> 02:40.887\n最高規格在國安局我就單講你們國安局的維安特勤好了什麼叫最高規格以你們國安跟特勤單位的最高規格來講的話你們可以做到什麼程度就是當天那樣的程度叫做最高規格嗎\n\n02:44.974 --> 02:50.855\n總統應該不是指維安的規格他說階級他說整個階級的規格都要最高那你們是不是屬於階級裡面其中一環那你們是不是也等同於你們要用最高規格來做維安跟特勤還是你覺得說要總統講最高規格那不然他講的是誰嘛那當然特勤人員是一個副總統都要去了那你維安你還不用高規格的去那不是很離譜跟荒謬嗎\n\n03:13.939 --> 03:28.514\n跟委員報告我們特請會看現地的情況現地的情況你現地的情況你就讓我看到了我們蕭美琴副總統後面衝出一群黃衣服的史稱黃金之亂這就是你們的最高規格嗎那委員我們是請可以請說\n\n03:34.827 --> 03:57.306\n委員好,你剛羅委員也提過那我前面三段我就不講那我講兩個重點的部分第一個當天到現場現刊之後我們協同六個單位去做整個動線的會刊跟列寧場所的會刊那剛也解釋過外面就是管制區外他比較有安全顧慮我們放在管制區內這個都是經過安檢進到管制區內的包含下機的人都是經過安檢進到\n\n03:59.768 --> 04:19.082\n對跟你講第二個部分就是我們一般合影的儀節分成兩個部分一個是計劃性一個是非計劃性那非計劃性就像總統到很多開放的場域很多熱情的民眾去要求那主辦單位跟辦公室的主任或者是秘書協調可能會因為很熱情的邀約\n\n04:20.143 --> 04:21.384\n是得到這個許可的嗎?我們特警都會在這邊\n\n04:49.715 --> 05:14.500\n這個是剛剛跟您報告的分成計劃性跟非計劃性對我知道我在後面那一段嘛但不是啊因為你就算非計劃性你也不可能讓所有人擠進來這仍然有危安問題啊您如果您看到那個片子前面那一段的話他們進去拉那個布條的時候我們的危安人員是在旁邊做戒護讓他安全的拉完布條之後同意他們進到裡面去跟他們合影但是\n\n05:16.901 --> 05:32.372\n主辦單位跟總統辦公室都同意讓這群黃衣服的人在旁邊一起拍照,是這樣嗎?同意他們進來拍照,但是我們可以從影片看到,他們是從後面一直串到前面那在這個時候,特勤人員為什麼沒有動作?\n\n05:33.298 --> 05:41.882\n我們的人那個都是管制區經過認證的管制區但是人家往前衝的時候那你們動作在哪裡我們從影片上面看到的是黃衣服的人甚至轉頭過來吼我們的維安人員叫你們退後欸那難道我們的維安人員就是特勤人員說一個大媽叫你退後你就退後了嗎那這樣的話不是很荒唐嗎我們從影片看到都是這樣欸你有看到那個影片嗎\n\n06:01.131 --> 06:05.414\n所以你看你們根本這件事情從25號到現在已經要幾號了現在已經時間過了不知道幾號現在已經這麼多天大家都在討論了你連當天的影片你們都沒有重新檢討重新看過你們連你們的特勤人員被黃衣大媽吼了你們都不知道\n\n06:22.472 --> 06:28.741\n這怎麼可以呢?那又又肩負著我們中華隊的球員的安全還肩負著我們蔡英文呃對不起喔蕭美琴副總統的安全那你們在旁邊你們只會在那邊看然後結果人家在那邊推擠在那邊撞那萬一跌倒了怎麼辦?\n\n06:38.254 --> 06:52.226\n人家這個我們陳捷憲他本來小朋友的他找不到他的太太跟他的小孩子那這個這麼混亂的一個狀況我們的特勤人員就只在旁邊看沒有其他任何可以協助的地方我也是跟過馬前總統的\n\n06:56.045 --> 07:06.729\n沒有看過這樣的維安情況啊都是事前當天會隔開人當有一些人他要就算他是要跟馬天宗握手或什麼這種情況的時候我國的元首的維安是他都會去幫忙擋的耶那今天那一群黃衣服的衝到前面衝到蕭美琴副總統旁邊衝到球員旁邊的時候你們為什麼沒有去幫忙擋\n\n07:18.494 --> 07:32.828\n雖然是屬於非計劃性的但他的管道不對他沒有有秩序的排列他沒有按照依序走進來的這個情況他是從後面一窩蜂的人突然衝到前面去你們沒有要求他們先往後你們沒有說你們先往後一個一個來\n\n07:34.409 --> 07:40.150\n特勤人員是這麼好講話的嗎我過去見過都不是這樣欸我見過的特勤人太多了從總統選舉、副總統選舉、馬前總統我從來沒有看過特勤人員這樣子欸用這麼鬆散的態度面對這件事情欸可以給我們的針對執行技巧的部分我們會再要求加強可能真的要很加強欸不然真的你就直接讓一群人就他們也是他們今天如果是壯漢說你們守不住就算了他們有一群就是\n\n08:04.551 --> 08:14.714\n大媽啊你們特勤人員對他們毫無辦法我真的不解所以我覺得國安局在特勤人員這塊回去真的要鄭重檢討因為我們的國人看了之後都覺得非常傻眼怎麼會有大媽轉過頭來吼特勤人員然後特勤人員就哎呦後退了的情況你們這種情形怎麼讓大家能夠全民能夠相信你們可以保衛中華民國的總統副總統呢所以拜託拜託你回去把整個影片重看\n\n08:34.642 --> 08:37.526\n從看過之後依序檢討我今天在這裡問有沒有被吼有沒有發生什麼事你們竟然回答不出來所有網友看影片都比你們看得還細代表你們沒有好好檢討今天來就知道應該會被問這個問題所以拜託一下好不好\n\n08:51.024 --> 08:51.184\n謝謝徐委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.086,"end":0.667,"text":"國安局副局長"},{"start":10.665,"end":37.745,"text":"你好那這個剛才也有委員提到了這個這個中華隊選手回台灣之後的階級維安問題那本席在這邊呢也有非常多的疑問想要跟這個維安的部分去做討論賴清德總統呢在11月24號也就是中華隊奪冠的那一天呢他下令什麼最高規格的階級維安局有收到這樣子的一個下令嗎"},{"start":39.332,"end":67.973,"text":"國安局有抽到這樣一下嗎?就賴總統說的最高規格階級,你們知道這件事嗎?欸,你不回答是什麼意思啊?那個,這個部分我們特勤中心沒有收到這樣的訊息。所以你們也不看新聞的是嗎?你們就把它當成一般的階級。我們很重視。你們很重視,但是你們沒有聽到我們的我國元首說,這一次的階級要用最高規格。不知道,你們不知道這件事。"},{"start":69.727,"end":78.697,"text":"我看你那麼久都沒有回答我我已經心裡有數了你也不用再硬想你剛剛說你不知道嘛對吧"},{"start":82.984,"end":84.305,"text":"我可以這麼說嗎?我這樣的陳述是事實吧?"},{"start":102.054,"end":117.266,"text":"是,那個委員,因為這個部分是我們特定中心在負責,我是不是請我們副指揮官來回答?當然可以,可是我要問的就是說,你是副局長啊,因為今天局長不在,不然我想問局長啊,但是因為我先第一個問題是強調賴總統他說的最高規格,"},{"start":121.189,"end":145.679,"text":"那到底國安局我們在特勤上面有沒有接到指示是說這是要用最高規格我想總統說的最高規格是一個歡迎的規格但我們維安有維安的一個規格他是說階級要最高規格那當然跟維安有實際的連結跟關係啊那否則民眾當然自己會去那請問那最高規格是要怎麼樣"},{"start":146.639,"end":160.887,"text":"最高規格在國安局我就單講你們國安局的維安特勤好了什麼叫最高規格以你們國安跟特勤單位的最高規格來講的話你們可以做到什麼程度就是當天那樣的程度叫做最高規格嗎"},{"start":164.974,"end":170.855,"text":"總統應該不是指維安的規格他說階級他說整個階級的規格都要最高那你們是不是屬於階級裡面其中一環那你們是不是也等同於你們要用最高規格來做維安跟特勤還是你覺得說要總統講最高規格那不然他講的是誰嘛那當然特勤人員是一個副總統都要去了那你維安你還不用高規格的去那不是很離譜跟荒謬嗎"},{"start":193.939,"end":208.514,"text":"跟委員報告我們特請會看現地的情況現地的情況你現地的情況你就讓我看到了我們蕭美琴副總統後面衝出一群黃衣服的史稱黃金之亂這就是你們的最高規格嗎那委員我們是請可以請說"},{"start":214.827,"end":237.306,"text":"委員好,你剛羅委員也提過那我前面三段我就不講那我講兩個重點的部分第一個當天到現場現刊之後我們協同六個單位去做整個動線的會刊跟列寧場所的會刊那剛也解釋過外面就是管制區外他比較有安全顧慮我們放在管制區內這個都是經過安檢進到管制區內的包含下機的人都是經過安檢進到"},{"start":239.768,"end":259.082,"text":"對跟你講第二個部分就是我們一般合影的儀節分成兩個部分一個是計劃性一個是非計劃性那非計劃性就像總統到很多開放的場域很多熱情的民眾去要求那主辦單位跟辦公室的主任或者是秘書協調可能會因為很熱情的邀約"},{"start":260.143,"end":261.384,"text":"是得到這個許可的嗎?我們特警都會在這邊"},{"start":289.715,"end":314.5,"text":"這個是剛剛跟您報告的分成計劃性跟非計劃性對我知道我在後面那一段嘛但不是啊因為你就算非計劃性你也不可能讓所有人擠進來這仍然有危安問題啊您如果您看到那個片子前面那一段的話他們進去拉那個布條的時候我們的危安人員是在旁邊做戒護讓他安全的拉完布條之後同意他們進到裡面去跟他們合影但是"},{"start":316.901,"end":332.372,"text":"主辦單位跟總統辦公室都同意讓這群黃衣服的人在旁邊一起拍照,是這樣嗎?同意他們進來拍照,但是我們可以從影片看到,他們是從後面一直串到前面那在這個時候,特勤人員為什麼沒有動作?"},{"start":333.298,"end":341.882,"text":"我們的人那個都是管制區經過認證的管制區但是人家往前衝的時候那你們動作在哪裡我們從影片上面看到的是黃衣服的人甚至轉頭過來吼我們的維安人員叫你們退後欸那難道我們的維安人員就是特勤人員說一個大媽叫你退後你就退後了嗎那這樣的話不是很荒唐嗎我們從影片看到都是這樣欸你有看到那個影片嗎"},{"start":361.131,"end":365.414,"text":"所以你看你們根本這件事情從25號到現在已經要幾號了現在已經時間過了不知道幾號現在已經這麼多天大家都在討論了你連當天的影片你們都沒有重新檢討重新看過你們連你們的特勤人員被黃衣大媽吼了你們都不知道"},{"start":382.472,"end":388.741,"text":"這怎麼可以呢?那又 又肩負著我們中華隊的球員的安全還肩負著我們蔡英文 呃 對不起喔 蕭美琴副總統的安全那 你們在旁邊 你們只會在那邊看然後結果人家在那邊推擠 在那邊撞 那萬一跌倒了怎麼辦?"},{"start":398.254,"end":412.226,"text":"人家這個我們陳捷憲他本來小朋友的他找不到他的太太跟他的小孩子那這個這麼混亂的一個狀況我們的特勤人員就只在旁邊看沒有其他任何可以協助的地方我也是跟過馬前總統的"},{"start":416.045,"end":426.729,"text":"沒有看過這樣的維安情況啊都是事前當天會隔開人當有一些人他要就算他是要跟馬天宗握手或什麼這種情況的時候我國的元首的維安是他都會去幫忙擋的耶那今天那一群黃衣服的衝到前面衝到蕭美琴副總統旁邊衝到球員旁邊的時候你們為什麼沒有去幫忙擋"},{"start":438.494,"end":452.828,"text":"雖然是屬於非計劃性的但他的管道不對他沒有有秩序的排列他沒有按照依序走進來的這個情況他是從後面一窩蜂的人突然衝到前面去你們沒有要求他們先往後你們沒有說你們先往後一個一個來"},{"start":454.409,"end":460.15,"text":"特勤人員是這麼好講話的嗎我過去見過都不是這樣欸我見過的特勤人太多了從總統選舉、副總統選舉、馬前總統我從來沒有看過特勤人員這樣子欸用這麼鬆散的態度面對這件事情欸可以給我們的針對執行技巧的部分我們會再要求加強可能真的要很加強欸不然真的你就直接讓一群人就他們也是他們今天如果是壯漢說你們守不住就算了他們有一群就是"},{"start":484.551,"end":494.714,"text":"大媽啊你們特勤人員對他們毫無辦法我真的不解所以我覺得國安局在特勤人員這塊回去真的要鄭重檢討因為我們的國人看了之後都覺得非常傻眼怎麼會有大媽轉過頭來吼特勤人員然後特勤人員就哎呦後退了的情況你們這種情形怎麼讓大家能夠全民能夠相信你們可以保衛中華民國的總統副總統呢所以拜託拜託你回去把整個影片重看"},{"start":514.642,"end":517.526,"text":"從看過之後依序檢討我今天在這裡問有沒有被吼有沒有發生什麼事你們竟然回答不出來所有網友看影片都比你們看得還細代表你們沒有好好檢討今天來就知道應該會被問這個問題所以拜託一下好不好"},{"start":531.024,"end":531.184,"text":"謝謝徐委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":254,"blocks":[["徐委員巧芯：（10時9分）謝謝主席，我想先請國安局副局長。"],["主席（王委員定宇）：副局長請。"],["張副局長元斌：委員好。"],["徐委員巧芯：你好。剛才也有委員提到了中華隊選手回臺灣之後的接機維安問題，本席在這邊也有非常多的疑問想就維安的部分去做討論。賴清德總統在11月24號，也就是中華隊奪冠的那一天，他下令什麼？最高規格的接機。國安局有收到這樣子的下令嗎？就賴總統說的最高規格接機，你們知道這件事嗎？你不回答是什麼意思？"],["張副局長元斌：這部分我們特勤中心沒有收到這樣的訊息。"],["徐委員巧芯：所以你們也不看新聞的是嗎？你們就把它當成一般的接機？"],["張副局長元斌：我們很重視。"],["徐委員巧芯：你們很重視，但是卻沒有聽到我國元首說，這次的接機要用最高規格？你們不知道這件事，對不對？我看你那麼久都沒有回答我，我已經心裡有數了，你也不用再硬想。你剛剛說你不知道嘛，對吧？"],["張副局長元斌：委員，我是說，我們正式的指令是沒有接到，但是我們很重視這次的行動。"],["徐委員巧芯：你們主動很重視，但是你們並不知道我國元首要求這場接機要用最高規格接待，我可以這麼說嗎？我這樣的陳述是事實吧？"],["張副局長元斌：委員，因為這個部分是我們特勤中心在負責的，我是不是請負責的指揮官來回答委員？"],["徐委員巧芯：當然可以，但我要問的是副局長你，因為今天局長不在，不然我想問的是局長。我第一個問題要強調的是，賴總統他說的「最高規格」，國安局在特勤上面到底有沒有接到指示這次要用「最高規格」啦？"],["張副局長元斌：總統說的「最高規格」是指歡迎的規格，但維安有維安的規格……"],["徐委員巧芯：他是說接機要最高規格耶！這當然與維安有實際的連結跟關係啊！"],["張副局長元斌：是，但我們維安有維安的特勤條例……"],["徐委員巧芯：否則民眾當然自己會去，請問最高規格是要怎樣？最高規格在國安局……我就單講你們國安局的維安特勤好了，什麼叫做最高規格？以你們國安跟特勤單位的最高規格來講的話，你們可以做到什麼程度？就是當天那樣的程度就叫做最高規格了嗎？"],["張副局長元斌：總統應該不是指維安的規格啦！"],["徐委員巧芯：他說「接機」，他說的是整個接機的規格都要最高，你們是不是屬於接機裡面的其中一環？你們是不是也等同於要用最高規格來做維安跟特勤？"],["張副局長元斌：是，我們會用我們的……"],["徐委員巧芯：還是你覺得總統講的最高規格是誰？當然，特勤人員也是一個……副總統都要去了，那你維安還不用高規格去，那不是很離譜跟荒謬嗎？"],["張副局長元斌：跟委員報告，我們特勤會看現地的情況。"],["徐委員巧芯：現地的情況？現地的情況讓我看到的是，我們蕭美琴副總統後面衝出一群黃衣服的，史稱「黃巾之亂」，這就是你們的最高規格嗎？"],["張副局長元斌：委員，我們是不是請副指揮官對當天的情況估說明？"],["徐委員巧芯：請說、請說。"],["李副指揮官：委員好，剛剛羅委員也提過，所以前面三段我就不講了，我就講兩個重點的部分。第一個，當天到場現勘之後，我們協同6個單位去做整個動線的會勘跟蒞臨場所的會勘。剛剛也解釋過，外面就是指管制區外，它比較有安全顧慮，我們放在管制區內，這個都是經過安檢進到管制區內的，包括下機的人都是經過安檢進到……"],["徐委員巧芯：那一群采盟的人呢？"],["李副指揮官：對。要跟你講的第二個部分是，我們一般合影的儀節分成兩個部分，一個是計畫性的，一個是非計畫性的。非計畫性的就像總統到很多開放的場域，很多熱情的民眾要求，主辦單位跟辦公室的主任或秘書協調，可能會因為很熱情的邀約，會同意他們進入，但是這個……"],["徐委員巧芯：所以是誰同意的？那個黃衣之亂是誰同意讓他們到前面去的？就你們瞭解，主辦單位是誰？誰同意讓你們……"],["李副指揮官：跟委員報告，那天是體育署跟……"],["徐委員巧芯：誰？"],["李副指揮官：體育署跟副總統辦公室，因為……"],["徐委員巧芯：體育署跟副總統辦公室認為在這個管制區裡面，采盟的這些黃巾……不要講他們是「黃巾賊」，對不起，應該是黃衣服的人，他們是可以前來拍照的，特勤單位這邊有得到這個許可嗎？"],["李副指揮官：報告委員，這個就是剛剛跟您報告的，分成計畫性跟非計畫性……"],["徐委員巧芯：我知道，但我在後面那一段。"],["李副指揮官：是。"],["徐委員巧芯：不是啊！因為就算是非計畫性的，也不可能讓所有人擠進來，這仍然有維安的問題啊！"],["李副指揮官：如果委員看到那個片子的前面那段，他們進去拉那個布條的時候，我們維安人員是在旁邊戒護，讓他們安全地拉完布條之後，同意他們進到裡面去合影，但是……"],["徐委員巧芯：那是誰同意的？我問的問題是這個。"],["李副指揮官：主辦單位跟副總統辦公室那邊協調的。"],["徐委員巧芯：所以體育署跟副總統辦公室都同意讓這群黃衣服的人在旁邊一起拍照，是這樣嗎？"],["李副指揮官：同意他們進來拍照，但是我們可以從影片看到，他們是從後面一直竄到前面去的，這個……"],["徐委員巧芯：OK，那在這個時候特勤人員為什麼沒有動作？"],["李副指揮官：我們的人……那個都是管制區，經過認證的人……"],["徐委員巧芯：對啊！是管制區，但是人家往前衝的時候，你們的動作在哪裡？"],["李副指揮官：這個我們會去檢討。"],["徐委員巧芯：我們從影片上面看到的是，黃衣服的人甚至轉過頭來吼我們的維安人員，叫你們退後耶！難道我們的維安人員、特勤人員就是一個大媽叫你們退後你們就退後嗎？"],["李副指揮官：這個我們是沒有……"],["徐委員巧芯：這的話不是很荒唐嗎？從影片中看到的都是這樣欸！你有看到那個影片嗎？"],["李副指揮官：您剛剛提的這一段我沒有看到，但是我們維安人員都在旁邊……"],["徐委員巧芯：所以你看！這件事情你們從25號到現在，今天幾號了？都已經過這麼多天，大家都在討論了，你連當天的影片都沒有重新檢討、重新看過，你們連你們的特勤人員被黃衣大媽吼了，你們都不知道？這怎麼可以呢？你們肩負著我們中華隊球員的安全，還肩負著我們蕭美琴副總統的安全，你們在旁邊就只會在那邊看，結果讓人家在那邊推擠、在那邊撞，萬一跌倒了怎麼辦？人家陳傑憲本來是有小朋友的，他找不到他的太太跟他的小孩子，這個這麼混亂的狀況，我們的特勤人員就只是在旁邊看，沒有其他任何可以協助的地方嗎？我也是跟過馬前總統的，沒有看過這樣的維安情況啊！都是事前、當天會隔開人，當有一些人就算要跟馬前總統握手或是有怎樣情況的時候，我國元首的維安是都會去幫忙擋的耶！","今天那群黃衣服的衝到前面、衝到蕭美琴副總統旁邊，衝到球員旁邊的時候，你們為什麼沒有去幫忙擋？雖然這是屬於非計畫性的，但他的管道不對，他沒有有秩序的排列，也沒有依序走進來，而是從後面一窩蜂地衝到前面去，你們沒有要求他們先往後，沒有要他們先往後然後一個一個來，特勤人員是這麼好講話的嗎？我過去見過的都不是這樣欸！我見過的特勤人員太多了，從總統、副總統選舉、馬前總統的維安，我從來沒有看過特勤人員這樣子，用這麼鬆散的態度面對這件事情耶！可以給我們一個……"],["李副指揮官：針對執勤技巧的部分，我們會再要求加強。"],["徐委員巧芯：可能真的要很加強，不然你就是真的讓一群人，如果今天他們是壯漢，你們守不住也就算了，他們只是一群大媽，你們特勤人員卻對他們毫無辦法，我真的不解，所以我覺得國安局在特勤人員這一塊，回去真的要鄭重檢討，因為連我們國人看了之後都覺得非常傻眼，怎麼會有大媽轉過頭來吼特勤人員，然後特勤人員就後退的情況？你們這種情形怎麼讓全民能夠相信你們可以保衛中華民國的總統、副總統呢？所以拜託、拜託，你回去把整個影片重看，重看過之後依序檢討。我今天在這裡問，有沒有被吼、有沒有發生什麼事，你們竟然回答不出來！所有網友看影片都比你們看得還細，代表你們沒有好好檢討。今天來就知道應該會被問這個問題，所以拜託一下好不好？這樣的事真的不能再發生了，大家都覺得非常離譜，所以拜託國安局，你們特勤單位真的……總統都說「最高規格」了，不可以這樣子，謝謝。"],["李副指揮官：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝徐巧芯委員，各位請回。","接下來進行詢答的委員是陳冠廷委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":244,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-18","speakers":["王定宇","沈伯洋","羅美玲","黃仁","徐巧芯","陳冠廷","林憶君","楊瓊瓔","馬文君","林楚茵","羅智強"],"page_start":211,"meetingDate":["2024-11-27"],"gazette_id":"11310501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310501_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第18次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家安全局、文化部、內政部警政署、大陸委員會報告「從『國有器官』在台播映困境看中\n國對台灣的長臂管轄策略，及我國的因應方案」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"11310501_00011"}}}