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\"end\": 484.657, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 484.657, \"end\": 484.677, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"張\"}, {\"word\": \"綺\"}, {\"word\": \"楷\", \"start\": 485.592, \"end\": 485.692, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 485.692, \"end\": 485.712, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,568 --> 00:00:10,988\n謝謝主席,我想請一下經濟部長賜還有我們台電董事長我們的長賜還有鄭文森董事長\n\n2\n00:00:14,633 --> 00:00:33,768\n市長好因為今天我們財政跟經濟聯席當中的時候主要是針對113年度中央政府總預算追加案那追加案當中主要就是針對台電這一千億的部分那我想說因為坦白說剛剛你在回答嚴寬委員的時候你提到說那個有兩千億還沒有撥補\n\n3\n00:00:36,850 --> 00:00:51,215\n我比較好奇狀態是說如果今天我們追加這一千億的預算沒有過的時候臺電怎麼辦?如果追加預算一千億沒有過臺電怎麼辦?次長回答還是臺電回答都可以\n\n4\n00:00:54,496 --> 00:01:14,501\n跟委員報告,就是說這兩千億基本上如果沒有過在我們的財務預估上面對台電來說我們這兩千億我們需要的營業用等等跟投資用的基金我們就必須去舉債所以會擴大台電的舉債餘額也會增加我們的負債比例\n\n5\n00:01:15,661 --> 00:01:40,265\n所以基本上來講就是說只是增加負債比例嗎?我們現在的負債比例已經9乘5了其實是蠻高的那我們現在公司的淨值如果讓我們持續累積虧損事實上我們是一個依照公司法有公開發行雖然沒有上市一個有公開發行的公司如果我們的資產跟負債資產不抵負債那對於\n\n6\n00:01:43,746 --> 00:01:46,948\n所以說整個資產淨值當中大概只剩2000多億我看到數字大概是這樣子\n\n7\n00:02:02,415 --> 00:02:02,915\n臺電的萬里水利發電計畫目前進行怎麼樣?\n\n8\n00:02:28,696 --> 00:02:50,151\n這個部分事實上在環平還有也遇到了那個地方的一些爭議那包括在地的不同的部落不同的部落對於這個開發的計畫有不同的意見所以還需要溝通建為支柱啦就說因為台電萬里計畫坦白說不是一個很大的計畫可是已經5年了5年了之後還在做地方的一個溝通\n\n9\n00:02:51,292 --> 00:03:16,333\n地方溝通當中的時候我們看到了就是說在萬農村這個部分的時候最主要要建設在這個地方可是這地方不溝通你們去外面找了其他的三個村莊的時候然後變成3比1的狀態的時候就覺得好像可以過可是萬農村沒有買這個單所以你們現在開始進行很多的一個訴訟嘛對不對現在訴訟還在進行不是嗎\n\n10\n00:03:17,875 --> 00:03:41,974\n董事長請做說明跟委員報告其實地方溝通常常都會有這樣子的狀況就是它如果有牽涉到幾個不同的部落它就會有不同的意見在那我覺得訴訟這個部分我要講的是其實應該要嚴格來講是對於一些進行過程取得的同意是不是有完整的程序大部分都是這種類型的問題但站在台電的立場\n\n11\n00:03:45,197 --> 00:03:46,658\n臺電在整個經營管理當中是有一些疏失,必須要更積極。\n\n12\n00:04:05,427 --> 00:04:07,088\n我們很體諒所以說我們覺得說整個大家都需要用電\n\n13\n00:04:26,556 --> 00:04:50,290\n所以我們一定希望臺電的體質能夠好、經營績效能夠好、政策能夠正確現在就是因為有很多的經營績效沒有辦法好的部分最主要是因為他要跟錯誤的政策去買這個單那我再問到一個部分就針對臺電目前閒置的資產有多少?董事長\n\n14\n00:04:51,681 --> 00:04:52,902\n臺電目前閒置資產有多少?臺電公司114年度預算當中的資產負債表表示\n\n15\n00:05:17,056 --> 00:05:18,578\n臺電是大幅改善這些土地閒置讓它活化利用\n\n16\n00:05:38,098 --> 00:05:39,119\n臺電公司沒有按照原定用途使用的土地面積\n\n17\n00:06:02,992 --> 00:06:06,914\n且預原定最後使用期限20年以上的土地面積占比超過15%\n\n18\n00:06:28,144 --> 00:06:54,370\n新竹市這邊有一個很重要的便電所我到時候會找台電這邊特別來做一個溝通在園區那邊的便電所的部分居住那旁邊那一個是是是那他到時候要怎麼樣去做一個後續的開發這邊的時候我再請董事長到本辦公室來做一個溝通我最後這個部分我想特別問一個狀態因為最近霸凌的事情太多了齁台電這邊的時候簡單隨便一找就有大概好幾個案子\n\n19\n00:06:54,830 --> 00:07:01,115\n在北區這邊臺電職場霸凌針對聖經理這部分,董事長知道這個案子嗎?2019年的事,就5年前的事最近還有一個狀態,就是臺電女課長拿鐮刀砍\n\n20\n00:07:23,854 --> 00:07:50,976\n一個離職一個調職員工的一個桌椅你知道這案子嗎?被罰5000塊拿鐮刀砍喔!跟委員報告那個那個其實是損害財務啦那個我們會來做相關的調查您提到這一個案子我們也會依照程序來辦因為狀況是這樣就我們台電公司有3萬個員工我們最重要就是要讓這樣子的文化不存在我們也希望有一定程度合理的申訴管道那以台電來講\n\n21\n00:07:51,997 --> 00:08:04,677\n我們如果遇到真的有這種主管跟員工之間有摩擦等等如果可以合理調整工作單位我們也會來加速進行那至於員工是不是真的受到霸凌我們會交給委員會來辦這也不是董事長的決定\n\n22\n00:08:05,592 --> 00:08:05,712\n張綺楷委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1568\t10988\t謝謝主席,我想請一下經濟部長賜還有我們台電董事長我們的長賜還有鄭文森董事長\n14633\t33768\t市長好因為今天我們財政跟經濟聯席當中的時候主要是針對113年度中央政府總預算追加案那追加案當中主要就是針對台電這一千億的部分那我想說因為坦白說剛剛你在回答嚴寬委員的時候你提到說那個有兩千億還沒有撥補\n36850\t51215\t我比較好奇狀態是說如果今天我們追加這一千億的預算沒有過的時候臺電怎麼辦?如果追加預算一千億沒有過臺電怎麼辦?次長回答還是臺電回答都可以\n54496\t74501\t跟委員報告,就是說這兩千億基本上如果沒有過在我們的財務預估上面對台電來說我們這兩千億我們需要的營業用等等跟投資用的基金我們就必須去舉債所以會擴大台電的舉債餘額也會增加我們的負債比例\n75661\t100265\t所以基本上來講就是說只是增加負債比例嗎?我們現在的負債比例已經9乘5了其實是蠻高的那我們現在公司的淨值如果讓我們持續累積虧損事實上我們是一個依照公司法有公開發行雖然沒有上市一個有公開發行的公司如果我們的資產跟負債資產不抵負債那對於\n103746\t106948\t所以說整個資產淨值當中大概只剩2000多億我看到數字大概是這樣子\n122415\t122915\t臺電的萬里水利發電計畫目前進行怎麼樣?\n148696\t170151\t這個部分事實上在環平還有也遇到了那個地方的一些爭議那包括在地的不同的部落不同的部落對於這個開發的計畫有不同的意見所以還需要溝通建為支柱啦就說因為台電萬里計畫坦白說不是一個很大的計畫可是已經5年了5年了之後還在做地方的一個溝通\n171292\t196333\t地方溝通當中的時候我們看到了就是說在萬農村這個部分的時候最主要要建設在這個地方可是這地方不溝通你們去外面找了其他的三個村莊的時候然後變成3比1的狀態的時候就覺得好像可以過可是萬農村沒有買這個單所以你們現在開始進行很多的一個訴訟嘛對不對現在訴訟還在進行不是嗎\n197875\t221974\t董事長請做說明跟委員報告其實地方溝通常常都會有這樣子的狀況就是它如果有牽涉到幾個不同的部落它就會有不同的意見在那我覺得訴訟這個部分我要講的是其實應該要嚴格來講是對於一些進行過程取得的同意是不是有完整的程序大部分都是這種類型的問題但站在台電的立場\n225197\t226658\t臺電在整個經營管理當中是有一些疏失,必須要更積極。\n245427\t247088\t我們很體諒所以說我們覺得說整個大家都需要用電\n266556\t290290\t所以我們一定希望臺電的體質能夠好、經營績效能夠好、政策能夠正確現在就是因為有很多的經營績效沒有辦法好的部分最主要是因為他要跟錯誤的政策去買這個單那我再問到一個部分就針對臺電目前閒置的資產有多少?董事長\n291681\t292902\t臺電目前閒置資產有多少?臺電公司114年度預算當中的資產負債表表示\n317056\t318578\t臺電是大幅改善這些土地閒置讓它活化利用\n338098\t339119\t臺電公司沒有按照原定用途使用的土地面積\n362992\t366914\t且預原定最後使用期限20年以上的土地面積占比超過15%\n388144\t414370\t新竹市這邊有一個很重要的便電所我到時候會找台電這邊特別來做一個溝通在園區那邊的便電所的部分居住那旁邊那一個是是是那他到時候要怎麼樣去做一個後續的開發這邊的時候我再請董事長到本辦公室來做一個溝通我最後這個部分我想特別問一個狀態因為最近霸凌的事情太多了齁台電這邊的時候簡單隨便一找就有大概好幾個案子\n414830\t421115\t在北區這邊臺電職場霸凌針對聖經理這部分,董事長知道這個案子嗎?2019年的事,就5年前的事最近還有一個狀態,就是臺電女課長拿鐮刀砍\n443854\t470976\t一個離職一個調職員工的一個桌椅你知道這案子嗎?被罰5000塊拿鐮刀砍喔!跟委員報告那個那個其實是損害財務啦那個我們會來做相關的調查您提到這一個案子我們也會依照程序來辦因為狀況是這樣就我們台電公司有3萬個員工我們最重要就是要讓這樣子的文化不存在我們也希望有一定程度合理的申訴管道那以台電來講\n471997\t484677\t我們如果遇到真的有這種主管跟員工之間有摩擦等等如果可以合理調整工作單位我們也會來加速進行那至於員工是不是真的受到霸凌我們會交給委員會來辦這也不是董事長的決定\n485592\t485712\t張綺楷委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席,我想請一下經濟部長賜還有我們台電董事長我們的長賜還有鄭文森董事長\n市長好因為今天我們財政跟經濟聯席當中的時候主要是針對113年度中央政府總預算追加案那追加案當中主要就是針對台電這一千億的部分那我想說因為坦白說剛剛你在回答嚴寬委員的時候你提到說那個有兩千億還沒有撥補\n我比較好奇狀態是說如果今天我們追加這一千億的預算沒有過的時候臺電怎麼辦?如果追加預算一千億沒有過臺電怎麼辦?次長回答還是臺電回答都可以\n跟委員報告,就是說這兩千億基本上如果沒有過在我們的財務預估上面對台電來說我們這兩千億我們需要的營業用等等跟投資用的基金我們就必須去舉債所以會擴大台電的舉債餘額也會增加我們的負債比例\n所以基本上來講就是說只是增加負債比例嗎?我們現在的負債比例已經9乘5了其實是蠻高的那我們現在公司的淨值如果讓我們持續累積虧損事實上我們是一個依照公司法有公開發行雖然沒有上市一個有公開發行的公司如果我們的資產跟負債資產不抵負債那對於\n所以說整個資產淨值當中大概只剩2000多億我看到數字大概是這樣子\n臺電的萬里水利發電計畫目前進行怎麼樣?\n這個部分事實上在環平還有也遇到了那個地方的一些爭議那包括在地的不同的部落不同的部落對於這個開發的計畫有不同的意見所以還需要溝通建為支柱啦就說因為台電萬里計畫坦白說不是一個很大的計畫可是已經5年了5年了之後還在做地方的一個溝通\n地方溝通當中的時候我們看到了就是說在萬農村這個部分的時候最主要要建設在這個地方可是這地方不溝通你們去外面找了其他的三個村莊的時候然後變成3比1的狀態的時候就覺得好像可以過可是萬農村沒有買這個單所以你們現在開始進行很多的一個訴訟嘛對不對現在訴訟還在進行不是嗎\n董事長請做說明跟委員報告其實地方溝通常常都會有這樣子的狀況就是它如果有牽涉到幾個不同的部落它就會有不同的意見在那我覺得訴訟這個部分我要講的是其實應該要嚴格來講是對於一些進行過程取得的同意是不是有完整的程序大部分都是這種類型的問題但站在台電的立場\n臺電在整個經營管理當中是有一些疏失,必須要更積極。\n我們很體諒所以說我們覺得說整個大家都需要用電\n所以我們一定希望臺電的體質能夠好、經營績效能夠好、政策能夠正確現在就是因為有很多的經營績效沒有辦法好的部分最主要是因為他要跟錯誤的政策去買這個單那我再問到一個部分就針對臺電目前閒置的資產有多少?董事長\n臺電目前閒置資產有多少?臺電公司114年度預算當中的資產負債表表示\n臺電是大幅改善這些土地閒置讓它活化利用\n臺電公司沒有按照原定用途使用的土地面積\n且預原定最後使用期限20年以上的土地面積占比超過15%\n新竹市這邊有一個很重要的便電所我到時候會找台電這邊特別來做一個溝通在園區那邊的便電所的部分居住那旁邊那一個是是是那他到時候要怎麼樣去做一個後續的開發這邊的時候我再請董事長到本辦公室來做一個溝通我最後這個部分我想特別問一個狀態因為最近霸凌的事情太多了齁台電這邊的時候簡單隨便一找就有大概好幾個案子\n在北區這邊臺電職場霸凌針對聖經理這部分,董事長知道這個案子嗎?2019年的事,就5年前的事最近還有一個狀態,就是臺電女課長拿鐮刀砍\n一個離職一個調職員工的一個桌椅你知道這案子嗎?被罰5000塊拿鐮刀砍喔!跟委員報告那個那個其實是損害財務啦那個我們會來做相關的調查您提到這一個案子我們也會依照程序來辦因為狀況是這樣就我們台電公司有3萬個員工我們最重要就是要讓這樣子的文化不存在我們也希望有一定程度合理的申訴管道那以台電來講\n我們如果遇到真的有這種主管跟員工之間有摩擦等等如果可以合理調整工作單位我們也會來加速進行那至於員工是不是真的受到霸凌我們會交給委員會來辦這也不是董事長的決定\n張綺楷委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.568 --> 00:10.988\n謝謝主席,我想請一下經濟部長賜還有我們台電董事長我們的長賜還有鄭文森董事長\n\n00:14.633 --> 00:33.768\n市長好因為今天我們財政跟經濟聯席當中的時候主要是針對113年度中央政府總預算追加案那追加案當中主要就是針對台電這一千億的部分那我想說因為坦白說剛剛你在回答嚴寬委員的時候你提到說那個有兩千億還沒有撥補\n\n00:36.850 --> 00:51.215\n我比較好奇狀態是說如果今天我們追加這一千億的預算沒有過的時候臺電怎麼辦?如果追加預算一千億沒有過臺電怎麼辦?次長回答還是臺電回答都可以\n\n00:54.496 --> 01:14.501\n跟委員報告,就是說這兩千億基本上如果沒有過在我們的財務預估上面對台電來說我們這兩千億我們需要的營業用等等跟投資用的基金我們就必須去舉債所以會擴大台電的舉債餘額也會增加我們的負債比例\n\n01:15.661 --> 01:40.265\n所以基本上來講就是說只是增加負債比例嗎?我們現在的負債比例已經9乘5了其實是蠻高的那我們現在公司的淨值如果讓我們持續累積虧損事實上我們是一個依照公司法有公開發行雖然沒有上市一個有公開發行的公司如果我們的資產跟負債資產不抵負債那對於\n\n01:43.746 --> 01:46.948\n所以說整個資產淨值當中大概只剩2000多億我看到數字大概是這樣子\n\n02:02.415 --> 02:02.915\n臺電的萬里水利發電計畫目前進行怎麼樣?\n\n02:28.696 --> 02:50.151\n這個部分事實上在環平還有也遇到了那個地方的一些爭議那包括在地的不同的部落不同的部落對於這個開發的計畫有不同的意見所以還需要溝通建為支柱啦就說因為台電萬里計畫坦白說不是一個很大的計畫可是已經5年了5年了之後還在做地方的一個溝通\n\n02:51.292 --> 03:16.333\n地方溝通當中的時候我們看到了就是說在萬農村這個部分的時候最主要要建設在這個地方可是這地方不溝通你們去外面找了其他的三個村莊的時候然後變成3比1的狀態的時候就覺得好像可以過可是萬農村沒有買這個單所以你們現在開始進行很多的一個訴訟嘛對不對現在訴訟還在進行不是嗎\n\n03:17.875 --> 03:41.974\n董事長請做說明跟委員報告其實地方溝通常常都會有這樣子的狀況就是它如果有牽涉到幾個不同的部落它就會有不同的意見在那我覺得訴訟這個部分我要講的是其實應該要嚴格來講是對於一些進行過程取得的同意是不是有完整的程序大部分都是這種類型的問題但站在台電的立場\n\n03:45.197 --> 03:46.658\n臺電在整個經營管理當中是有一些疏失,必須要更積極。\n\n04:05.427 --> 04:07.088\n我們很體諒所以說我們覺得說整個大家都需要用電\n\n04:26.556 --> 04:50.290\n所以我們一定希望臺電的體質能夠好、經營績效能夠好、政策能夠正確現在就是因為有很多的經營績效沒有辦法好的部分最主要是因為他要跟錯誤的政策去買這個單那我再問到一個部分就針對臺電目前閒置的資產有多少?董事長\n\n04:51.681 --> 04:52.902\n臺電目前閒置資產有多少?臺電公司114年度預算當中的資產負債表表示\n\n05:17.056 --> 05:18.578\n臺電是大幅改善這些土地閒置讓它活化利用\n\n05:38.098 --> 05:39.119\n臺電公司沒有按照原定用途使用的土地面積\n\n06:02.992 --> 06:06.914\n且預原定最後使用期限20年以上的土地面積占比超過15%\n\n06:28.144 --> 06:54.370\n新竹市這邊有一個很重要的便電所我到時候會找台電這邊特別來做一個溝通在園區那邊的便電所的部分居住那旁邊那一個是是是那他到時候要怎麼樣去做一個後續的開發這邊的時候我再請董事長到本辦公室來做一個溝通我最後這個部分我想特別問一個狀態因為最近霸凌的事情太多了齁台電這邊的時候簡單隨便一找就有大概好幾個案子\n\n06:54.830 --> 07:01.115\n在北區這邊臺電職場霸凌針對聖經理這部分,董事長知道這個案子嗎?2019年的事,就5年前的事最近還有一個狀態,就是臺電女課長拿鐮刀砍\n\n07:23.854 --> 07:50.976\n一個離職一個調職員工的一個桌椅你知道這案子嗎?被罰5000塊拿鐮刀砍喔!跟委員報告那個那個其實是損害財務啦那個我們會來做相關的調查您提到這一個案子我們也會依照程序來辦因為狀況是這樣就我們台電公司有3萬個員工我們最重要就是要讓這樣子的文化不存在我們也希望有一定程度合理的申訴管道那以台電來講\n\n07:51.997 --> 08:04.677\n我們如果遇到真的有這種主管跟員工之間有摩擦等等如果可以合理調整工作單位我們也會來加速進行那至於員工是不是真的受到霸凌我們會交給委員會來辦這也不是董事長的決定\n\n08:05.592 --> 08:05.712\n張綺楷委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.568,"end":10.988,"text":"謝謝主席,我想請一下經濟部長賜還有我們台電董事長我們的長賜還有鄭文森董事長"},{"start":14.633,"end":33.768,"text":"市長好因為今天我們財政跟經濟聯席當中的時候主要是針對113年度中央政府總預算追加案那追加案當中主要就是針對台電這一千億的部分那我想說因為坦白說剛剛你在回答嚴寬委員的時候你提到說那個有兩千億還沒有撥補"},{"start":36.85,"end":51.215,"text":"我比較好奇狀態是說如果今天我們追加這一千億的預算沒有過的時候臺電怎麼辦?如果追加預算一千億沒有過臺電怎麼辦?次長回答還是臺電回答都可以"},{"start":54.496,"end":74.501,"text":"跟委員報告,就是說這兩千億基本上如果沒有過在我們的財務預估上面對台電來說我們這兩千億我們需要的營業用等等跟投資用的基金我們就必須去舉債所以會擴大台電的舉債餘額也會增加我們的負債比例"},{"start":75.661,"end":100.265,"text":"所以基本上來講就是說只是增加負債比例嗎?我們現在的負債比例已經9乘5了其實是蠻高的那我們現在公司的淨值如果讓我們持續累積虧損事實上我們是一個依照公司法有公開發行雖然沒有上市一個有公開發行的公司如果我們的資產跟負債資產不抵負債那對於"},{"start":103.746,"end":106.948,"text":"所以說整個資產淨值當中大概只剩2000多億我看到數字大概是這樣子"},{"start":122.415,"end":122.915,"text":"臺電的萬里水利發電計畫目前進行怎麼樣?"},{"start":148.696,"end":170.151,"text":"這個部分事實上在環平還有也遇到了那個地方的一些爭議那包括在地的不同的部落不同的部落對於這個開發的計畫有不同的意見所以還需要溝通建為支柱啦就說因為台電萬里計畫坦白說不是一個很大的計畫可是已經5年了5年了之後還在做地方的一個溝通"},{"start":171.292,"end":196.333,"text":"地方溝通當中的時候我們看到了就是說在萬農村這個部分的時候最主要要建設在這個地方可是這地方不溝通你們去外面找了其他的三個村莊的時候然後變成3比1的狀態的時候就覺得好像可以過可是萬農村沒有買這個單所以你們現在開始進行很多的一個訴訟嘛對不對現在訴訟還在進行不是嗎"},{"start":197.875,"end":221.974,"text":"董事長請做說明跟委員報告其實地方溝通常常都會有這樣子的狀況就是它如果有牽涉到幾個不同的部落它就會有不同的意見在那我覺得訴訟這個部分我要講的是其實應該要嚴格來講是對於一些進行過程取得的同意是不是有完整的程序大部分都是這種類型的問題但站在台電的立場"},{"start":225.197,"end":226.658,"text":"臺電在整個經營管理當中是有一些疏失,必須要更積極。"},{"start":245.427,"end":247.088,"text":"我們很體諒所以說我們覺得說整個大家都需要用電"},{"start":266.556,"end":290.29,"text":"所以我們一定希望臺電的體質能夠好、經營績效能夠好、政策能夠正確現在就是因為有很多的經營績效沒有辦法好的部分最主要是因為他要跟錯誤的政策去買這個單那我再問到一個部分就針對臺電目前閒置的資產有多少?董事長"},{"start":291.681,"end":292.902,"text":"臺電目前閒置資產有多少?臺電公司114年度預算當中的資產負債表表示"},{"start":317.056,"end":318.578,"text":"臺電是大幅改善這些土地閒置讓它活化利用"},{"start":338.098,"end":339.119,"text":"臺電公司沒有按照原定用途使用的土地面積"},{"start":362.992,"end":366.914,"text":"且預原定最後使用期限20年以上的土地面積占比超過15%"},{"start":388.144,"end":414.37,"text":"新竹市這邊有一個很重要的便電所我到時候會找台電這邊特別來做一個溝通在園區那邊的便電所的部分居住那旁邊那一個是是是那他到時候要怎麼樣去做一個後續的開發這邊的時候我再請董事長到本辦公室來做一個溝通我最後這個部分我想特別問一個狀態因為最近霸凌的事情太多了齁台電這邊的時候簡單隨便一找就有大概好幾個案子"},{"start":414.83,"end":421.115,"text":"在北區這邊臺電職場霸凌針對聖經理這部分,董事長知道這個案子嗎?2019年的事,就5年前的事最近還有一個狀態,就是臺電女課長拿鐮刀砍"},{"start":443.854,"end":470.976,"text":"一個離職一個調職員工的一個桌椅你知道這案子嗎?被罰5000塊拿鐮刀砍喔!跟委員報告那個那個其實是損害財務啦那個我們會來做相關的調查您提到這一個案子我們也會依照程序來辦因為狀況是這樣就我們台電公司有3萬個員工我們最重要就是要讓這樣子的文化不存在我們也希望有一定程度合理的申訴管道那以台電來講"},{"start":471.997,"end":484.677,"text":"我們如果遇到真的有這種主管跟員工之間有摩擦等等如果可以合理調整工作單位我們也會來加速進行那至於員工是不是真的受到霸凌我們會交給委員會來辦這也不是董事長的決定"},{"start":485.592,"end":485.712,"text":"張綺楷委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":341,"blocks":[["鄭委員正鈐：（10時16分）謝謝主席，我想請一下經濟部常次，還有台電董事長。"],["主席：好，常次還有曾文生董事長。"],["連次長錦漳：鄭委員好。"],["鄭委員正鈐：次長好，因為今天我們財政跟經濟聯席會議主要是針對113年度中央政府總預算追加案，追加案當中主要是針對台電的1,000億，我想坦白說，剛剛你在回答顏寬恒委員的時候，你提到有2,000億還沒有撥補，所以現在也在爭取，那我比較好奇的狀態是，如果今天我們追加這1,000億預算沒有過，台電怎麼辦？次長還是台電回答都可以。"],["曾董事長文生：跟委員報告，基本上這2,000億如果沒有過，在我們的財務預估上面，以台電來說，對於這2,000億，我們所需的營業用跟投資用的基金就必須去舉債，所以會擴大台電的舉債餘額，也會增加我們的負債比例，另外……"],["鄭委員正鈐：所以基本上來講只是增加負債比例，台電還是繼續經營下去嘛。"],["曾董事長文生：我們現在的負債比例已經九成五了，其實是滿高的，而我們現在公司的淨值，如果讓我們持續累積虧損，事實上我們是一個依照公司法公開發行，雖然沒有上市，但是一個有公開發行的公司，如果我們的資產跟負債，資產不敵負債，依照法令的規範，會面臨解散問題。"],["鄭委員正鈐：是，目前資產多少，負債多少？"],["曾董事長文生：我們現在資產淨值大概2,000億上下，不到2,000億。"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK，所以整個資產淨值大概只剩兩千多億，我看到的數字大概是這樣子，所以如果這一次的追加預算沒有過、撥補沒有過，台電還是要繼續往下走嘛，可是你們要怎麼樣提高你們的經營績效，其實我們也非常好奇，我這邊提幾個部分給你們參考一下，台電的萬里水力發電計畫，董事長知道這個案子吧？"],["曾董事長文生：是。"],["鄭委員正鈐：目前進行怎麼樣？"],["曾董事長文生：這個部分事實上在環評也遇到了一些地方的爭議，包括在地的不同部落，他們對於開發計畫有不同意見，所以我們還需要溝通。"],["鄭委員正鈐：這見微知著啦，因為台電萬里計畫坦白說不是一個很大的計畫，可是已經5年了，5年之後還在做地方的溝通，在地方溝通當中我們也看到了，在萬榮村這個部分，最主要的建設在這個地方，可是這個地方不溝通，你們去外面找了其他三個村莊，變成三比一的狀態就覺得好像可以過，可是萬榮村沒有買這個單，所以你們現在開始進行很多的訴訟，對不對？現在訴訟還在進行不是嗎？董事長請做說明。"],["曾董事長文生：跟委員報告，其實地方溝通常常都會有這樣子的狀況，如果有牽涉到幾個不同的部落就會有不同的意見，我覺得訴訟這個部分，我要講的是，嚴格來講這是對於一些進行過程取得同意是不是有完整的程序，大部分都是這種類型的問題，但站在台電的立場充分溝通，這個已經是台電，以及不管哪一類型的電源開發都在進行的工作，那委員提到的萬里，我們會去討論……"],["鄭委員正鈐：是，說這樣說，可是這5年還在這個進度，我覺得台電顯然在整個經營管理當中有一些疏失，必須要更積極。"],["曾董事長文生：報告委員，像協和已經環評經過了非常多年，我們就是努力在跟社會溝通，所以請委員體諒，台電有非常多電力開發的計畫其實不是那麼容易，也不是台電說要做就可以做。"],["鄭委員正鈐：我很體諒，我覺得大家都需要用電，我們一定希望台電的體質能夠好，經營績效能夠好，政策能夠正確，現在就是因為有很多的經營績效沒有辦法好，最主要是因為它要跟錯誤的政策去買單。","我再問一個部分，針對台電目前閒置的資產有多少？董事長，台電目前閒置的資產有多少？"],["曾董事長文生：報告委員，假設你說我們台電公司的發電如果不夠，我們稼動率一定都非常高，其實就不會有閒置資產。"],["鄭委員正鈐：可是目前看到立法院預算中心提到的，台電公司114年度預算當中的資產負債表表示，你們的土地閒置資產其實是很高的。"],["曾董事長文生：跟委員報告，關於預算中心的這個報告，我上次在經濟委員會有稍微回答了一下，我們是從127公頃降到現在剩下27公頃，其實這幾年來台電大幅改善土地閒置，讓它活化利用，有一些變電站經過我們的溝通，地方政府也支持，讓我們可以開始興建，也有電廠用地可以開始興建，就會讓這個閒置減少，我們是從127公頃……"],["鄭委員正鈐：理解，不過因為我看到的是台電公司沒有使用，或者沒有按照原訂用途使用的土地面積，且逾原訂最後使用期限20年以上的土地面積占比超過15%。"],["曾董事長文生：跟委員報告，這裡面有15%擺了20年，大部分都是變電所，變電所要在地方蓋就會遇到很多問題，最近我們的變電所也因應地方政府的需要把它變成了住宅用地，我們也遇到這樣子的問題……"],["鄭委員正鈐：這個部分我要帶出來的就是，新竹市這邊有一個很重要的變電所，我到時會找台電特別來做溝通，在園區那邊的變電所。"],["曾董事長文生：區處旁邊那一個。"],["鄭委員正鈐：是、是，它到時候要怎麼做後續的開發，我再請董事長到本辦公室來做溝通。","最後我想特別問一個狀態，因為最近霸凌的事情太多了，台電簡單隨便一找就大概有好幾個案子，其中一個就是北區台電的職場霸凌，針對盛經理的部分，董事長知道這個案子嗎？"],["曾董事長文生：這是2019年的事，也就是5年前的事。"],["鄭委員正鈐：現在都還是在持續。最近還有一個狀態，就是台電女課長拿鐮刀砍一個將調職員工的桌椅，你知道這案子嗎？後來他被罰5,000塊，然後他是拿鐮刀砍喔！"],["曾董事長文生：跟委員報告，那個行為其實是損害財物，我們會來做相關的調查，您提到的這個案子，我們也會依照程序來辦，因為狀況是這樣的，台電公司有3萬個員工，我們最重要就是要讓這樣子的文化不存在，我們也希望有一定程度合理的申訴管道。以台電來講，如果真的遇到主管跟員工之間有摩擦等等的事件，如果可以合理調整工作單位，我們也會加速來進行；至於員工是不是真的受到霸凌，我們會交給委員會來辦，這也不是董事長能決定的。"],["鄭委員正鈐：關於職場霸凌，我們希望台電這邊能夠好好管，因為台電對於整個民生來說是重要的，所以針對整個撥補預算，我覺得可能還需要做更多的溝通跟討論。"],["曾董事長文生：要請委員多多支持，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。接著請張啓楷委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":96,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-2-20,19-1","speakers":["賴惠員","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","賴瑞隆","顏寬恒","鄭正鈐","張啓楷","陳玉珍","陳亭妃","黃珊珊","李坤城","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","王鴻薇","蔡易餘","楊瓊瓔","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","羅明才","邱志偉","葉元之","牛煦庭","洪孟楷","黃國昌","邱議瑩","王世堅","陳超明"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-27"],"gazette_id":"11310701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310701_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政、經濟委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算追加預算案","agenda_id":"11310701_00001"}}}