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\"start\": 674.228, \"end\": 674.388, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 674.388, \"end\": 674.468, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 674.468, \"end\": 674.729, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"影\", \"start\": 674.729, \"end\": 674.749, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"響\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,009 --> 00:00:05,932\n目前我們對於勞動部發生霸凌事件看到很多的面向就是對於公務人員的保障\n\n2\n00:00:25,930 --> 00:00:27,550\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部\n\n3\n00:00:52,642 --> 00:01:13,531\n各位報導,其實當認真檢查起來,所以保障法是比較原則性的規定,如果從寬解釋也是有HANA這樣的一個概念。不過目前是有以人種有一個指引,作為大家處理個案的機制。當然這個部分牽涉到的相關法規,我是不是請蔡主委來做訪問。\n\n4\n00:01:16,141 --> 00:01:16,961\n公務員報告公務員報告\n\n5\n00:01:40,126 --> 00:01:41,046\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部\n\n6\n00:02:02,374 --> 00:02:09,280\n收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分\n\n7\n00:02:28,757 --> 00:02:30,438\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n\n8\n00:02:57,930 --> 00:03:21,583\n我們還是因為發生這件事情的時候大家才驚覺到說其實我們的公務人員的保障對於他在職場公務人員在他的這個工作環境裡面受到霸凌不管他是什麼樣的類型但他受到霸凌那我們如何來保障他就是說他如果受到霸凌那麼他如何的來去保障他受到霸凌之後要如何的保障他\n\n9\n00:03:21,983 --> 00:03:24,424\n收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管\n\n10\n00:03:52,284 --> 00:04:11,362\n就是它是依照就依照國家賠償法裡面有一些要件是啊,所以變成你是依照國家賠償法相關的規定嘛那我現在是說如果說因為公務員不法執行職務去霸凌人家這個是不是屬於不法執行職務啊這可能就是會有一些爭議嘛\n\n11\n00:04:12,603 --> 00:04:35,064\n但我的意思是如果你在公務人員保障法裡面或者相關的考機法裡面有相關的一些懲處的規定公務人員去涉及霸凌的行為那已經這個可能我們就會做相關的一個懲處的話我們可能國家賠償法裡面的相關規定就是因為這個公務人員涉及不法的行為就可以申請國賠他的依據就會非常的明顯\n\n12\n00:04:36,710 --> 00:04:56,039\n所以我的意思說可不可以未來我們對於這個霸凌事件或什麼供應涉及吸毒或有其他相關的一些賭博不法的行徑我們在這個相關的法規裡面去做出相關的規定要這個依照考試法或者依照什麼樣的法令可以做出懲處\n\n13\n00:04:58,580 --> 00:05:25,130\n我們會把這個剛剛委員所提的這些意見呢納入我們這個安慰辦法跟保障法的修法的裡面讓它可以更明確那另外有關於考積法的部分請事部長確實我們也有擬議我們本來考積法有一個修正的擬議就是把性騷啦或者是霸凌啦或者是包括酒駕這一類呢我想我們政府宣誓不容忍的一個行為會列本來就要列入考試法的那個專案考試\n\n14\n00:05:25,350 --> 00:05:26,691\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n\n15\n00:06:16,221 --> 00:06:42,501\n外界還有不同的想法所以還要繼續討論之後所以剛剛我想因為這一次我們也想在思考說是單獨先抽離呢是這個部分單獨先抽出來單獨送法先抽出來單獨送法先包含了這個性騷、霸凌、吸毒、酒駕就不要跟行為面的管理啦我們行為面的管理這部分先送到立法院來審議啦我覺得這幾個沒有處理的話不行啦另外我想再請教就是說我們\n\n16\n00:06:43,582 --> 00:07:09,942\n賴清哲總統他在擔任行政院長的時候在2019年的6月5號他在台大有一場演講他有一場演講他當行政院長的時候他有一場演講不是做總統的時候當行政院長的時候他說年金改革不能不可能回復到從前但如果有受到衝擊的話有受到衝擊的問題的時候必要的時候就應該做些調整\n\n17\n00:07:11,223 --> 00:07:18,909\n檢查院提出調查報告要求內政部、警政署、人事總署徹底檢討並謀求散策。行政院提出調查報告要求內政部、警政署、人事總署徹底檢討並謀求散策。行政院提出調查報告\n\n18\n00:07:39,926 --> 00:07:51,271\n今年3月20日也發函立法院檢証警察人員年金制度檢討的續處情形以及軍公教人員年金制度檢討資訊公開的事宜。\n\n19\n00:07:58,954 --> 00:08:09,902\n所以你是否贊成說警察人員以及消防人員以及為勞職務的人員能夠另外特別訂定退休的所得替代率?\n\n20\n00:08:13,023 --> 00:08:30,995\n這個議題的確需要比較謹慎,因為所有公務員都用同樣的費率跟同樣的所得替代率。如果有一部分人用同樣的費率但是用更高的所得替代率的話,那我們要考慮的比較是其他人員的公平性的問題。\n\n21\n00:08:32,056 --> 00:08:33,657\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n\n22\n00:08:47,907 --> 00:09:03,645\n因為他的值等值級的制度跟一般公務員又有所不同,所以他的本縫會比較高,他會反映在他的退休金當中。\n\n23\n00:09:20,221 --> 00:09:24,923\n收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管\n\n24\n00:09:46,989 --> 00:09:48,511\n總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於考試院考選部主管\n\n25\n00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:22,381\n難道他們不應該得到他們退休後應該有的生活保障嗎?或者我們的老師回答委員剛剛講到調整那個部分所以在上一次年金改革修法的時候其實立法院當然各種意見那雖然所得替代率逐年調降10年\n\n26\n00:10:23,582 --> 00:10:43,211\n但是也因此有一些配套機制就包含年金的這個給付每至少4年要做一次檢討或者是將消費者物價指數超過5%的時候要做相對應的處理所以因此年改上路雖然才幾年但是有調整了兩次一次是2%一次是今年4%所以就是說根據物價指數的這個上漲\n\n27\n00:10:45,472 --> 00:10:49,433\n稅務基金收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分\n\n28\n00:11:08,340 --> 00:11:14,749\n我希望這個政府還是要去多多考量他們的年金改革之後造成他們的巨大的一個影響\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9\t5932\t目前我們對於勞動部發生霸凌事件看到很多的面向就是對於公務人員的保障\n25930\t27550\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部\n52642\t73531\t各位報導,其實當認真檢查起來,所以保障法是比較原則性的規定,如果從寬解釋也是有HANA這樣的一個概念。不過目前是有以人種有一個指引,作為大家處理個案的機制。當然這個部分牽涉到的相關法規,我是不是請蔡主委來做訪問。\n76141\t76961\t公務員報告公務員報告\n100126\t101046\t三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部\n122374\t129280\t收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分\n148757\t150438\t三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n177930\t201583\t我們還是因為發生這件事情的時候大家才驚覺到說其實我們的公務人員的保障對於他在職場公務人員在他的這個工作環境裡面受到霸凌不管他是什麼樣的類型但他受到霸凌那我們如何來保障他就是說他如果受到霸凌那麼他如何的來去保障他受到霸凌之後要如何的保障他\n201983\t204424\t收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管\n232284\t251362\t就是它是依照就依照國家賠償法裡面有一些要件是啊,所以變成你是依照國家賠償法相關的規定嘛那我現在是說如果說因為公務員不法執行職務去霸凌人家這個是不是屬於不法執行職務啊這可能就是會有一些爭議嘛\n252603\t275064\t但我的意思是如果你在公務人員保障法裡面或者相關的考機法裡面有相關的一些懲處的規定公務人員去涉及霸凌的行為那已經這個可能我們就會做相關的一個懲處的話我們可能國家賠償法裡面的相關規定就是因為這個公務人員涉及不法的行為就可以申請國賠他的依據就會非常的明顯\n276710\t296039\t所以我的意思說可不可以未來我們對於這個霸凌事件或什麼供應涉及吸毒或有其他相關的一些賭博不法的行徑我們在這個相關的法規裡面去做出相關的規定要這個依照考試法或者依照什麼樣的法令可以做出懲處\n298580\t325130\t我們會把這個剛剛委員所提的這些意見呢納入我們這個安慰辦法跟保障法的修法的裡面讓它可以更明確那另外有關於考積法的部分請事部長確實我們也有擬議我們本來考積法有一個修正的擬議就是把性騷啦或者是霸凌啦或者是包括酒駕這一類呢我想我們政府宣誓不容忍的一個行為會列本來就要列入考試法的那個專案考試\n325350\t326691\t三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n354445\t376101\t議員議員議員\n376221\t402501\t外界還有不同的想法所以還要繼續討論之後所以剛剛我想因為這一次我們也想在思考說是單獨先抽離呢是這個部分單獨先抽出來單獨送法先抽出來單獨送法先包含了這個性騷、霸凌、吸毒、酒駕就不要跟行為面的管理啦我們行為面的管理這部分先送到立法院來審議啦我覺得這幾個沒有處理的話不行啦另外我想再請教就是說我們\n403582\t429942\t賴清哲總統他在擔任行政院長的時候在2019年的6月5號他在台大有一場演講他有一場演講他當行政院長的時候他有一場演講不是做總統的時候當行政院長的時候他說年金改革不能不可能回復到從前但如果有受到衝擊的話有受到衝擊的問題的時候必要的時候就應該做些調整\n431223\t438909\t檢查院提出調查報告要求內政部、警政署、人事總署徹底檢討並謀求散策。行政院提出調查報告要求內政部、警政署、人事總署徹底檢討並謀求散策。行政院提出調查報告\n459926\t471271\t今年3月20日也發函立法院檢証警察人員年金制度檢討的續處情形以及軍公教人員年金制度檢討資訊公開的事宜。\n478954\t489902\t所以你是否贊成說警察人員以及消防人員以及為勞職務的人員能夠另外特別訂定退休的所得替代率?\n493023\t510995\t這個議題的確需要比較謹慎,因為所有公務員都用同樣的費率跟同樣的所得替代率。如果有一部分人用同樣的費率但是用更高的所得替代率的話,那我們要考慮的比較是其他人員的公平性的問題。\n512056\t513657\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n527907\t543645\t因為他的值等值級的制度跟一般公務員又有所不同,所以他的本縫會比較高,他會反映在他的退休金當中。\n543865\t559326\t獎項\n560221\t564923\t收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管\n586989\t588511\t總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於考試院考選部主管\n607000\t622381\t難道他們不應該得到他們退休後應該有的生活保障嗎?或者我們的老師回答委員剛剛講到調整那個部分所以在上一次年金改革修法的時候其實立法院當然各種意見那雖然所得替代率逐年調降10年\n623582\t643211\t但是也因此有一些配套機制就包含年金的這個給付每至少4年要做一次檢討或者是將消費者物價指數超過5%的時候要做相對應的處理所以因此年改上路雖然才幾年但是有調整了兩次一次是2%一次是今年4%所以就是說根據物價指數的這個上漲\n645472\t649433\t稅務基金收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分\n668340\t674749\t我希望這個政府還是要去多多考量他們的年金改革之後造成他們的巨大的一個影響\n","txt":"目前我們對於勞動部發生霸凌事件看到很多的面向就是對於公務人員的保障\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部\n各位報導,其實當認真檢查起來,所以保障法是比較原則性的規定,如果從寬解釋也是有HANA這樣的一個概念。不過目前是有以人種有一個指引,作為大家處理個案的機制。當然這個部分牽涉到的相關法規,我是不是請蔡主委來做訪問。\n公務員報告公務員報告\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部\n收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n我們還是因為發生這件事情的時候大家才驚覺到說其實我們的公務人員的保障對於他在職場公務人員在他的這個工作環境裡面受到霸凌不管他是什麼樣的類型但他受到霸凌那我們如何來保障他就是說他如果受到霸凌那麼他如何的來去保障他受到霸凌之後要如何的保障他\n收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管\n就是它是依照就依照國家賠償法裡面有一些要件是啊,所以變成你是依照國家賠償法相關的規定嘛那我現在是說如果說因為公務員不法執行職務去霸凌人家這個是不是屬於不法執行職務啊這可能就是會有一些爭議嘛\n但我的意思是如果你在公務人員保障法裡面或者相關的考機法裡面有相關的一些懲處的規定公務人員去涉及霸凌的行為那已經這個可能我們就會做相關的一個懲處的話我們可能國家賠償法裡面的相關規定就是因為這個公務人員涉及不法的行為就可以申請國賠他的依據就會非常的明顯\n所以我的意思說可不可以未來我們對於這個霸凌事件或什麼供應涉及吸毒或有其他相關的一些賭博不法的行徑我們在這個相關的法規裡面去做出相關的規定要這個依照考試法或者依照什麼樣的法令可以做出懲處\n我們會把這個剛剛委員所提的這些意見呢納入我們這個安慰辦法跟保障法的修法的裡面讓它可以更明確那另外有關於考積法的部分請事部長確實我們也有擬議我們本來考積法有一個修正的擬議就是把性騷啦或者是霸凌啦或者是包括酒駕這一類呢我想我們政府宣誓不容忍的一個行為會列本來就要列入考試法的那個專案考試\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n議員議員議員\n外界還有不同的想法所以還要繼續討論之後所以剛剛我想因為這一次我們也想在思考說是單獨先抽離呢是這個部分單獨先抽出來單獨送法先抽出來單獨送法先包含了這個性騷、霸凌、吸毒、酒駕就不要跟行為面的管理啦我們行為面的管理這部分先送到立法院來審議啦我覺得這幾個沒有處理的話不行啦另外我想再請教就是說我們\n賴清哲總統他在擔任行政院長的時候在2019年的6月5號他在台大有一場演講他有一場演講他當行政院長的時候他有一場演講不是做總統的時候當行政院長的時候他說年金改革不能不可能回復到從前但如果有受到衝擊的話有受到衝擊的問題的時候必要的時候就應該做些調整\n檢查院提出調查報告要求內政部、警政署、人事總署徹底檢討並謀求散策。行政院提出調查報告要求內政部、警政署、人事總署徹底檢討並謀求散策。行政院提出調查報告\n今年3月20日也發函立法院檢証警察人員年金制度檢討的續處情形以及軍公教人員年金制度檢討資訊公開的事宜。\n所以你是否贊成說警察人員以及消防人員以及為勞職務的人員能夠另外特別訂定退休的所得替代率?\n這個議題的確需要比較謹慎,因為所有公務員都用同樣的費率跟同樣的所得替代率。如果有一部分人用同樣的費率但是用更高的所得替代率的話,那我們要考慮的比較是其他人員的公平性的問題。\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n因為他的值等值級的制度跟一般公務員又有所不同,所以他的本縫會比較高,他會反映在他的退休金當中。\n獎項\n收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管\n總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於考試院考選部主管\n難道他們不應該得到他們退休後應該有的生活保障嗎?或者我們的老師回答委員剛剛講到調整那個部分所以在上一次年金改革修法的時候其實立法院當然各種意見那雖然所得替代率逐年調降10年\n但是也因此有一些配套機制就包含年金的這個給付每至少4年要做一次檢討或者是將消費者物價指數超過5%的時候要做相對應的處理所以因此年改上路雖然才幾年但是有調整了兩次一次是2%一次是今年4%所以就是說根據物價指數的這個上漲\n稅務基金收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分\n我希望這個政府還是要去多多考量他們的年金改革之後造成他們的巨大的一個影響\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.009 --> 00:05.932\n目前我們對於勞動部發生霸凌事件看到很多的面向就是對於公務人員的保障\n\n00:25.930 --> 00:27.550\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部\n\n00:52.642 --> 01:13.531\n各位報導,其實當認真檢查起來,所以保障法是比較原則性的規定,如果從寬解釋也是有HANA這樣的一個概念。不過目前是有以人種有一個指引,作為大家處理個案的機制。當然這個部分牽涉到的相關法規,我是不是請蔡主委來做訪問。\n\n01:16.141 --> 01:16.961\n公務員報告公務員報告\n\n01:40.126 --> 01:41.046\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部\n\n02:02.374 --> 02:09.280\n收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分\n\n02:28.757 --> 02:30.438\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n\n02:57.930 --> 03:21.583\n我們還是因為發生這件事情的時候大家才驚覺到說其實我們的公務人員的保障對於他在職場公務人員在他的這個工作環境裡面受到霸凌不管他是什麼樣的類型但他受到霸凌那我們如何來保障他就是說他如果受到霸凌那麼他如何的來去保障他受到霸凌之後要如何的保障他\n\n03:21.983 --> 03:24.424\n收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管\n\n03:52.284 --> 04:11.362\n就是它是依照就依照國家賠償法裡面有一些要件是啊,所以變成你是依照國家賠償法相關的規定嘛那我現在是說如果說因為公務員不法執行職務去霸凌人家這個是不是屬於不法執行職務啊這可能就是會有一些爭議嘛\n\n04:12.603 --> 04:35.064\n但我的意思是如果你在公務人員保障法裡面或者相關的考機法裡面有相關的一些懲處的規定公務人員去涉及霸凌的行為那已經這個可能我們就會做相關的一個懲處的話我們可能國家賠償法裡面的相關規定就是因為這個公務人員涉及不法的行為就可以申請國賠他的依據就會非常的明顯\n\n04:36.710 --> 04:56.039\n所以我的意思說可不可以未來我們對於這個霸凌事件或什麼供應涉及吸毒或有其他相關的一些賭博不法的行徑我們在這個相關的法規裡面去做出相關的規定要這個依照考試法或者依照什麼樣的法令可以做出懲處\n\n04:58.580 --> 05:25.130\n我們會把這個剛剛委員所提的這些意見呢納入我們這個安慰辦法跟保障法的修法的裡面讓它可以更明確那另外有關於考積法的部分請事部長確實我們也有擬議我們本來考積法有一個修正的擬議就是把性騷啦或者是霸凌啦或者是包括酒駕這一類呢我想我們政府宣誓不容忍的一個行為會列本來就要列入考試法的那個專案考試\n\n05:25.350 --> 05:26.691\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n\n06:16.221 --> 06:42.501\n外界還有不同的想法所以還要繼續討論之後所以剛剛我想因為這一次我們也想在思考說是單獨先抽離呢是這個部分單獨先抽出來單獨送法先抽出來單獨送法先包含了這個性騷、霸凌、吸毒、酒駕就不要跟行為面的管理啦我們行為面的管理這部分先送到立法院來審議啦我覺得這幾個沒有處理的話不行啦另外我想再請教就是說我們\n\n06:43.582 --> 07:09.942\n賴清哲總統他在擔任行政院長的時候在2019年的6月5號他在台大有一場演講他有一場演講他當行政院長的時候他有一場演講不是做總統的時候當行政院長的時候他說年金改革不能不可能回復到從前但如果有受到衝擊的話有受到衝擊的問題的時候必要的時候就應該做些調整\n\n07:11.223 --> 07:18.909\n檢查院提出調查報告要求內政部、警政署、人事總署徹底檢討並謀求散策。行政院提出調查報告要求內政部、警政署、人事總署徹底檢討並謀求散策。行政院提出調查報告\n\n07:39.926 --> 07:51.271\n今年3月20日也發函立法院檢証警察人員年金制度檢討的續處情形以及軍公教人員年金制度檢討資訊公開的事宜。\n\n07:58.954 --> 08:09.902\n所以你是否贊成說警察人員以及消防人員以及為勞職務的人員能夠另外特別訂定退休的所得替代率?\n\n08:13.023 --> 08:30.995\n這個議題的確需要比較謹慎,因為所有公務員都用同樣的費率跟同樣的所得替代率。如果有一部分人用同樣的費率但是用更高的所得替代率的話,那我們要考慮的比較是其他人員的公平性的問題。\n\n08:32.056 --> 08:33.657\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n\n08:47.907 --> 09:03.645\n因為他的值等值級的制度跟一般公務員又有所不同,所以他的本縫會比較高,他會反映在他的退休金當中。\n\n09:20.221 --> 09:24.923\n收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管\n\n09:46.989 --> 09:48.511\n總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於考試院考選部主管\n\n10:07.000 --> 10:22.381\n難道他們不應該得到他們退休後應該有的生活保障嗎?或者我們的老師回答委員剛剛講到調整那個部分所以在上一次年金改革修法的時候其實立法院當然各種意見那雖然所得替代率逐年調降10年\n\n10:23.582 --> 10:43.211\n但是也因此有一些配套機制就包含年金的這個給付每至少4年要做一次檢討或者是將消費者物價指數超過5%的時候要做相對應的處理所以因此年改上路雖然才幾年但是有調整了兩次一次是2%一次是今年4%所以就是說根據物價指數的這個上漲\n\n10:45.472 --> 10:49.433\n稅務基金收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分\n\n11:08.340 --> 11:14.749\n我希望這個政府還是要去多多考量他們的年金改革之後造成他們的巨大的一個影響\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.009,"end":5.932,"text":"目前我們對於勞動部發生霸凌事件看到很多的面向就是對於公務人員的保障"},{"start":25.93,"end":27.55,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部"},{"start":52.642,"end":73.531,"text":"各位報導,其實當認真檢查起來,所以保障法是比較原則性的規定,如果從寬解釋也是有HANA這樣的一個概念。不過目前是有以人種有一個指引,作為大家處理個案的機制。當然這個部分牽涉到的相關法規,我是不是請蔡主委來做訪問。"},{"start":76.141,"end":76.961,"text":"公務員報告公務員報告"},{"start":100.126,"end":101.046,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部"},{"start":122.374,"end":129.28,"text":"收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分"},{"start":148.757,"end":150.438,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":177.93,"end":201.583,"text":"我們還是因為發生這件事情的時候大家才驚覺到說其實我們的公務人員的保障對於他在職場公務人員在他的這個工作環境裡面受到霸凌不管他是什麼樣的類型但他受到霸凌那我們如何來保障他就是說他如果受到霸凌那麼他如何的來去保障他受到霸凌之後要如何的保障他"},{"start":201.983,"end":204.424,"text":"收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管"},{"start":232.284,"end":251.362,"text":"就是它是依照就依照國家賠償法裡面有一些要件是啊,所以變成你是依照國家賠償法相關的規定嘛那我現在是說如果說因為公務員不法執行職務去霸凌人家這個是不是屬於不法執行職務啊這可能就是會有一些爭議嘛"},{"start":252.603,"end":275.064,"text":"但我的意思是如果你在公務人員保障法裡面或者相關的考機法裡面有相關的一些懲處的規定公務人員去涉及霸凌的行為那已經這個可能我們就會做相關的一個懲處的話我們可能國家賠償法裡面的相關規定就是因為這個公務人員涉及不法的行為就可以申請國賠他的依據就會非常的明顯"},{"start":276.71,"end":296.039,"text":"所以我的意思說可不可以未來我們對於這個霸凌事件或什麼供應涉及吸毒或有其他相關的一些賭博不法的行徑我們在這個相關的法規裡面去做出相關的規定要這個依照考試法或者依照什麼樣的法令可以做出懲處"},{"start":298.58,"end":325.13,"text":"我們會把這個剛剛委員所提的這些意見呢納入我們這個安慰辦法跟保障法的修法的裡面讓它可以更明確那另外有關於考積法的部分請事部長確實我們也有擬議我們本來考積法有一個修正的擬議就是把性騷啦或者是霸凌啦或者是包括酒駕這一類呢我想我們政府宣誓不容忍的一個行為會列本來就要列入考試法的那個專案考試"},{"start":325.35,"end":326.691,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":354.445,"end":376.101,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":376.221,"end":402.501,"text":"外界還有不同的想法所以還要繼續討論之後所以剛剛我想因為這一次我們也想在思考說是單獨先抽離呢是這個部分單獨先抽出來單獨送法先抽出來單獨送法先包含了這個性騷、霸凌、吸毒、酒駕就不要跟行為面的管理啦我們行為面的管理這部分先送到立法院來審議啦我覺得這幾個沒有處理的話不行啦另外我想再請教就是說我們"},{"start":403.582,"end":429.942,"text":"賴清哲總統他在擔任行政院長的時候在2019年的6月5號他在台大有一場演講他有一場演講他當行政院長的時候他有一場演講不是做總統的時候當行政院長的時候他說年金改革不能不可能回復到從前但如果有受到衝擊的話有受到衝擊的問題的時候必要的時候就應該做些調整"},{"start":431.223,"end":438.909,"text":"檢查院提出調查報告要求內政部、警政署、人事總署徹底檢討並謀求散策。行政院提出調查報告要求內政部、警政署、人事總署徹底檢討並謀求散策。行政院提出調查報告"},{"start":459.926,"end":471.271,"text":"今年3月20日也發函立法院檢証警察人員年金制度檢討的續處情形以及軍公教人員年金制度檢討資訊公開的事宜。"},{"start":478.954,"end":489.902,"text":"所以你是否贊成說警察人員以及消防人員以及為勞職務的人員能夠另外特別訂定退休的所得替代率?"},{"start":493.023,"end":510.995,"text":"這個議題的確需要比較謹慎,因為所有公務員都用同樣的費率跟同樣的所得替代率。如果有一部分人用同樣的費率但是用更高的所得替代率的話,那我們要考慮的比較是其他人員的公平性的問題。"},{"start":512.056,"end":513.657,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":527.907,"end":543.645,"text":"因為他的值等值級的制度跟一般公務員又有所不同,所以他的本縫會比較高,他會反映在他的退休金當中。"},{"start":543.865,"end":559.326,"text":"獎項"},{"start":560.221,"end":564.923,"text":"收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管"},{"start":586.989,"end":588.511,"text":"總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於考試院考選部主管"},{"start":607,"end":622.381,"text":"難道他們不應該得到他們退休後應該有的生活保障嗎?或者我們的老師回答委員剛剛講到調整那個部分所以在上一次年金改革修法的時候其實立法院當然各種意見那雖然所得替代率逐年調降10年"},{"start":623.582,"end":643.211,"text":"但是也因此有一些配套機制就包含年金的這個給付每至少4年要做一次檢討或者是將消費者物價指數超過5%的時候要做相對應的處理所以因此年改上路雖然才幾年但是有調整了兩次一次是2%一次是今年4%所以就是說根據物價指數的這個上漲"},{"start":645.472,"end":649.433,"text":"稅務基金收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分"},{"start":668.34,"end":674.749,"text":"我希望這個政府還是要去多多考量他們的年金改革之後造成他們的巨大的一個影響"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1059,"blocks":[["林委員思銘：（10時45分）謝謝主席。主席，請秘書長。"],["主席：好，我們請秘書長。"],["劉秘書長建忻：林委員早。"],["林委員思銘：秘書長早。我接續剛才羅智強委員的質詢，對於勞動部發生的霸凌事件，當然我們看到很多的面向，就是對於公務人員的保障，依照現行的不管是公務人員保障法或者相關考績法的規定，似乎還有很多的缺失。我先就教秘書長，如果這件事情發生，依照目前的公務人員保障法，有什麼樣的規定可以保護我們相關的公務人員以後不再受霸凌？"],["劉秘書長建忻：跟委員報告，其實當認真檢查起來，保障法是比較原則性的規定，如果從寬解釋也是有含納這樣的概念。"],["林委員思銘：是。"],["劉秘書長建忻：不過目前人總是有一個指引，作為大家處理個案的機制。這個部分牽涉到的相關法規，是不是請蔡主委來做說明？"],["林委員思銘：好，來。"],["蔡主任委員秀涓：跟委員報告，目前整個有關於霸凌事件的處理，根據我們的保障法及安衛辦法，因為人總是現場管理的機關，而且能就近馬上發現問題，所以他們有一些指引，一旦有發現霸凌事件發生，當事人向機關申訴的時候，他們就會進行相關的調查，如果機關有做出事實的認定，當事人雙方兩造也都覺得是公平、客觀的調查，機關就會依據調查的結果，對於被申訴人進行他應有的一些懲處，或者是職務上的調查；如果不符的話……"],["林委員思銘：好，OK。主委，現在我的問題點是，剛剛你提了很多，如果發生這種事件如何來申訴的指引，即公務人員怎麼樣向他的上級長官去做申訴，有相關的指引出來嘛，這邊有相關的指引嘛？"],["蔡主任委員秀涓：是，有。"],["林委員思銘：OK。但我的問題是霸凌有沒有入法？在公務人員保障法裡面，對於霸凌這個事情，因為霸凌其實是一個法律概念，它也是一個很不確定的概念，到底什麼樣子叫作霸凌？可能要有很多司法實務的審判才能夠形成它的案例啦！"],["蔡主任委員秀涓：是。"],["林委員思銘：但是基本上，我們認為對於霸凌這個事件，因為發生這件事情之後，大家才驚覺到公務人員的保障不足，對於他在職場、公務人員在他的工作環境裡面受到霸凌，不管是什麼樣的類型，他受到了霸凌，我們如何來保障他，即他如果受到霸凌，在他受到霸凌時要如何保障他未來不再受到這方面的傷害、繼續容任它發生，以及要如何來保護他，例如剛才講到國家賠償的問題，剛才是哪一位？是考選部長嗎？"],["蔡主任委員秀涓：施部長。"],["林委員思銘：可不可以申請國家賠償？如果今天霸凌事件發生，可不可以申請國賠？"],["蔡主任委員秀涓：可以的，但是要由機關幫他提出。"],["林委員思銘：依據什麼？"],["蔡主任委員秀涓：就是他……"],["林委員思銘：是依照……"],["蔡主任委員秀涓：就依照國家賠償法裡面有一些要件。"],["林委員思銘：是啊！所以變成你是依照國家賠償法相關的規定，我現在的意思是公務員不法執行職務，去霸凌人家，這個是不是屬於不法執行職務啊？這可能會有一些爭議，但我的意思是，如果你在公務人員保障法或者考績法裡面有相關的懲處規定，公務人員涉及霸凌的行為，你們就會做相關的懲處，而國家賠償法裡面的相關規定，就是公務人員涉及不法的行為就可以申請國賠，其依據就會非常地明顯。所以我的意思是可不可以未來對於霸凌事件或公務人員涉及吸毒或有其他相關的賭博、不法行徑，在相關的法規裡面訂定相關的規定，依照考績法或者依照什麼樣的法令就可以做出懲處。"],["蔡主任委員秀涓：我們會把剛剛委員所提的這些意見納入安衛辦法和保障法的修法裡面，讓它可以更明確。","另外，有關於考績法的部分，請施部長。"],["林委員思銘：好。"],["施部長能傑：我跟委員報告，確實我們也有擬議，本來考績法有一個修正的擬議，就是把性騷或是霸凌，也包括酒駕這類行為，也就是我們政府宣示不容忍的行為本來就有要列入考績法的專案考績，或者是平時考核可以列丁等，或者一次兩大過免職的一些條件，因為這是國人所重視的，即使現在沒有明文的文字，其他的文字也是可以處理，不過我們認為還是可以把它修得更好。"],["林委員思銘：是，部長，我的意思是說，你要把它入法啦！因為入法才比較有依據。"],["施部長能傑：對。"],["林委員思銘：如果依照相關的指引，真的有這種比如性騷擾、霸凌事件發生，當他要申請國賠才有依據啊！"],["施部長能傑：對，是。"],["林委員思銘：為什麼到現在……因為我看昨天王鴻薇委員質詢院長被提名人，好像考試院2月就已經有相關的提案了。"],["施部長能傑：確實我們有把一個修正草案送到考試院，不過因為那是在考績法，考績法有更複雜的修法條文，有非常非常多，外界還有一些不同的想法，所以還在繼續討論中。因為這一次我們也在思考是不是單獨先抽離，這個部分單獨先抽出來……"],["林委員思銘：對，先把它抽出來嘛！儘速地把這部分先……"],["施部長能傑：單獨送法這樣子。"],["林委員思銘：包含性騷、霸凌、吸毒、酒駕這幾個部分，好不好？"],["施部長能傑：就比較行為面的管理，行為面的管理這部分。"],["林委員思銘：先送到立法院來審議啦！"],["施部長能傑：好，我們會努力來做這件事。"],["林委員思銘：否則我覺得這幾個部分沒有處理的話不行啦！"],["施部長能傑：好。"],["林委員思銘：另外，我想再請教，賴清德總統在擔任行政院長的時候，2019年6月5日他在臺大有一場演講，他當行政院長的時候有一場演講，不是做總統的時候，是當行政院長的時候，他說年金改革不可能回復到從前，但如果有受到衝擊，必要的時候就應該做些調整。但是我們現在看到一個問題點，就是警消現在發生緩退，新陳代謝很緩慢，基層員警出現警消老化、警力斷層這個問題點，監察院在108年就提出調查報告，要求內政部、警政署、人事總處澈底檢討，並謀求善策。行政院在今年的3月20日也發函立法院，檢送警察人員年金制度檢討續處情形及軍公教人員年金制度檢討資訊公開事宜，所以我在這邊要請問秘書長，你是否贊成警察人員、消防人員以及危勞職務人員能夠另外特別訂定退休的所得替代率？"],["劉秘書長建忻：其實這個議題的確需要比較謹慎，因為所有公務員都用同樣的費率和同樣的所得替代率，如果有一部分人用同樣的費率，但是用更高的所得替代率的話，我們要考慮的比較是其他人員的公平性問題。","第二個，我想大家都很關心警消在在職跟退休之後的經濟所得，以實際領取的數字來看，警消同仁在職的薪資其實高於一般公務員，因為他的薪資計算，他的職等、職級的制度與一般公務員又有所不同，所以他的本俸會比較高，這會反映在他的退休金當中。"],["林委員思銘：秘書長，其實現在大家對於年金改革，認為所有的公務人員不管是警消、軍公教的年金改革替代率，因為隨著近年來物價一直上漲，你把他年金砍了之後，他們未來晚年的生活會滿悽慘的，所以一直希望能砍到一定的程度，不要一直砍、一直砍，因此我們才會立法，修訂從113年，對於相關的公教人員也好、警消人員也好，不要再去砍他的所得替代率了，目前這個法案當然還沒有通過。只是我的意思是說，既然過去政府、現在的賴總統有這樣的表示，對於有必要的時候，應該予以適度地調整……"],["劉秘書長建忻：對，這個就……"],["林委員思銘：所以我才要請教秘書長，如果一直從這種角度去看所有的公務人員會一體適用，那對於我們一直強調的這種從事危險工作的警察也好，消防人員也好，難道他們不應該得到他們退休後應有的生活保障嗎？或者我們的老師。"],["劉秘書長建忻：回答委員剛剛講到調整的部分，在上一次年金改革修法的時候，其實立法院當然有各種意見，雖然所得替代率逐年調降10年，可是也因此有一些配套機制，包含年金給付至少每4年要做一次檢討，或者是當消費者物價指數超過5%的時候要做相對應的處理，所以年改上路雖然才幾年，但是有調整了兩次，一次是2%，一次是今年的4%，也就是說，根據物價指數的上漲，年改會有相對應的給付金額的調整，這個也是當時在機制當中大家很智慧地把它放進去的一個部分。"],["林委員思銘：是，秘書長，我想時間也差不多，但是我還是衷心的建議，對於這些警消還有公教人員，他們現在退休後的生活保障真的是不足啦！我希望政府還是要多多考量年金改革之後對他們造成的巨大影響，以上，謝謝。"],["劉秘書長建忻：瞭解，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝林思銘委員的質詢，秘書長、部長請回。","我們休息5分鐘。","休息（10時56分）","繼續開會（11時1分）"],["主席：請同仁及備詢的首長就座，現在繼續開會。","接續邀請鄭天財委員進行質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":476,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-36-16","speakers":["鍾佳濱","黃國昌","陳俊宇","吳思瑤","沈發惠","翁曉玲","羅智強","林思銘","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","徐欣瑩","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳宗憲","莊瑞雄","王鴻薇","謝龍介"],"page_start":359,"meetingDate":["2024-11-27"],"gazette_id":"11310702","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310702_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第16次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於考試院及所屬主管收支部分；二、審查114年度中央政府\n總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於考試院考選部主管「考選業務基金」收支部分；三、審查\n114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於考試院銓敘部主管「公務人員退休撫卹\n基金」收支部分；四、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於考試院銓敘\n部主管「公教人員個人專戶制退撫儲金基金」收支部分；五、審查及處理113年度中央政府總預\n算關於考試院主管預算凍結項目共4案【第一案至第四案僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"11310702_00003"}}}