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00:00:22,837\n謝謝主席以及各位先進有請經濟部的郭部長請郭部長\n\n2\n00:00:31,192 --> 00:00:43,261\n委員好博長你好你對於你來這個立法你來公佈已經一段時間了啦你原來是大老闆出身的你對立法院的態度怎麼樣我不知道不太明白委員的垂詢是什麼意思我的意思就是說立法院的決議你又不要遵守因為我們代表人民\n\n3\n00:01:01,297 --> 00:01:18,262\n立法院的決議你要不要遵守立法院的決議我要不要遵守對就法令規定我要遵守我就會遵守法令規定當然要遵守啊怎麼不要遵守不然我們做一大堆決議做假的啊那我現在告訴你一件事情\n\n4\n00:01:20,322 --> 00:01:31,385\n立法院在4月30號通過一個要求章兵工業區停建金鼎焚化爐的決議案這個你知道吧?我知道結果你們在10月\n\n5\n00:01:45,441 --> 00:01:50,608\n你們在10月25號居然發文給那些廠商說了簡單來講就是你們不甩這個決議你們要廠商提出一個\n\n6\n00:02:01,345 --> 00:02:23,528\n要繼續蓋然後文送彰化縣政府文送環境部也就是說你們卸責因為立法院這裡你們不願意跟立法院對撞你們就說可以繼續走我們已經三讀通過立法院主決議在院會三讀通過我相信那天你可能也在\n\n7\n00:02:24,636 --> 00:02:34,687\n通過了結果你們居然發文你們的產發局的科學園區管理局發文給廠商百萬文獎我都在這裡\n\n8\n00:02:41,411 --> 00:02:56,759\n拜訪文講就是說不要理立法院你們就繼續蓋你們繼續蓋申請但是不要跟我申請你甩鍋給環境部所以你們這裡有環境部跟彰化縣政府環境部你看右邊這個文環境部說了\n\n9\n00:03:00,101 --> 00:03:10,823\n上蘭用新建文化爐申請使用特種建築作業要點你們甩給黃金部甩給黃金部不接說你的事丟臉丟手啦部長這個你可能都不知道你們產發署長這個產發署長啊這個要換人了產發署長要不要講一講你怎麼發這個文你怎麼發這個文這個文就擺明了跟立法院的決議對幹勒\n\n10\n00:03:30,382 --> 00:03:36,450\n現在立法院跟行政委員會已經夠緊張了結果你經濟部帶頭起來我們10月30號做了一個決議這個是聯合報昨天出來的很大篇的消息而且把彰化都弄出來了我們再看第二頁彰化已經久坐的焚化爐\n\n11\n00:03:51,067 --> 00:04:09,762\n林佳龍承諾不會再興建鄭文燦也承諾不會再興建那時候的林佳龍是總統文秘書長那時候的鄭文燦是行政院的副院長兩大長官都承諾在彰化不要再蓋文化爐結果你們在回去的第1頁\n\n12\n00:04:11,378 --> 00:04:22,158\n結果你們的一個文出來了這是經濟部產業發展署然後科學園區管理局所發出來的\n\n13\n00:04:23,797 --> 00:04:31,083\n你看這裡面喔底下喔並未載明有本局審查顯然解讀有異簡單來講就是立法院的決議啊像passair一樣沒個慘很可惡啊這個部長你才知道這個文你知道嗎我請他跟你報告一下我先請教你這個文你知不知道文我不知道是的嘛你可能被底下人給你闖空你闖不會啦不會這樣子我請他跟你報告一下這個署長你這是怎麼樣你是拿人家好處是不是\n\n14\n00:04:54,382 --> 00:05:16,842\n應該給他蓋還怎麼樣來來書長講不是委員你可能誤會我請他直接跟你報告好來來來講講你講向委員報告第一個是他來申請特種建築物的部分是那特種建築物的部分審查不在我們局裡面所以我們才會行務我們立法院已經要求你會停了你還在審查什麼因為立法院已經決議停了四月就決議了十月份你還要給他\n\n15\n00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:31,508\n那第二個委員有提到的就是說立法院決議的部分我們也是朝著解約要把...解約啦你就是停你們該講的是根據壞人給立法院做根據立法院的決議你們已經停了沒有這個東西而且合約也到齊對不對合約到齊了到齊了人家另外一個以前的委員陳嘉華都說合約已經到齊啦\n\n16\n00:05:50,846 --> 00:05:54,474\n那個合約要到明年才會到期明年才會到期\n\n17\n00:05:55,117 --> 00:05:55,757\n報告委員這個違約的話經濟部要賠償這個錢\n\n18\n00:06:24,997 --> 00:06:45,363\n陪葬陪葬這些你推給立法院的陪葬什麼錢推給立法院呢是是謝謝委員知道不是如果我們做了你們不執行那立法院幹什麼立法院可以關掉了立法院可以關掉了你這個引起憲政上的危機喔你等於替卓榮泰又來一個\n\n19\n00:06:46,769 --> 00:06:48,389\n媒體聯合報這麼大篇你準備怎麼做告訴我\n\n20\n00:07:13,362 --> 00:07:40,063\n什麼?依照合約處理啦我們立法院不要管喔我們會依照立法院的決議然後依照合約的程序來處理聽不懂啦立法院決議叫你停啦立法院決議叫你停啦合約有合約處理的一個步驟啦我們要依照合約的步驟來處理合約比較重要還是立法院決議比較重要?決議我們就是遵照立法院的決議然後再來處理合約的部分\n\n21\n00:07:41,125 --> 00:07:58,732\n河岳怎麼處理你問我你告訴我河岳他有一個處理的程序阿現在我們還在走這個程序但是我們就是遵照立法院的決議我現在拿到的文這是聯合報那邊給我的他是說\n\n22\n00:08:00,052 --> 00:08:27,369\n你們就是叫他要蓋然後向中央政府申請向這個環境部申請結果都被打回去了報告委員我想很多的事情是不是我們直接跟你報告因為透過媒體也許這裡面有失分的部分啦一個禮拜你來給我報告好不好第二件等一下等一下那我把這個問題講完喔剛才我在財務會那邊審查你的追加一千億台電的預算不長啊\n\n23\n00:08:28,806 --> 00:08:35,879\n我原來阿老實講我是中間偏支持阿可是上一次問你那句話我就不支持了\n\n24\n00:08:36,516 --> 00:09:03,996\n你居然跟我說我問你說如果一千億沒有給你呢增資你說就舉債喔多大聲的舉債你說很有錢的舉債就好結果我還要查了一下你們的台電的負債1.6兆喔這個要付利息的喔另外利息不算的2.5兆總共4點多兆的負債資本額五千多億累計虧損四千多億每年獲得利息是兩百多億\n\n25\n00:09:05,217 --> 00:09:24,551\n你再借一千億我問過財政部你們借一千億董事長可以講一千億利息多少你告訴我利息多少你知道嗎補償你才知道一千億的利息多少看我的利率多少台電嘛台電也可以從利率上面去寫幾%嘛你跟我講幾%差不多二三十億塊\n\n26\n00:09:29,242 --> 00:09:43,175\n財政部長跟我講啦平均1.5%你們大概1.4%所以只有14億你想喔大家各位各位偉大的台灣人民聽喔財政台電要1000億私塾無名他沒有窮盡一切茫茫之力\n\n27\n00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:49,080\n發言委員：賴士葆\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n18536\t22837\t謝謝主席以及各位先進有請經濟部的郭部長請郭部長\n31192\t43261\t委員好博長你好你對於你來這個立法你來公佈已經一段時間了啦你原來是大老闆出身的你對立法院的態度怎麼樣我不知道不太明白委員的垂詢是什麼意思我的意思就是說立法院的決議你又不要遵守因為我們代表人民\n61297\t78262\t立法院的決議你要不要遵守立法院的決議我要不要遵守對就法令規定我要遵守我就會遵守法令規定當然要遵守啊怎麼不要遵守不然我們做一大堆決議做假的啊那我現在告訴你一件事情\n80322\t91385\t立法院在4月30號通過一個要求章兵工業區停建金鼎焚化爐的決議案這個你知道吧?我知道結果你們在10月\n105441\t110608\t你們在10月25號居然發文給那些廠商說了簡單來講就是你們不甩這個決議你們要廠商提出一個\n121345\t143528\t要繼續蓋然後文送彰化縣政府文送環境部也就是說你們卸責因為立法院這裡你們不願意跟立法院對撞你們就說可以繼續走我們已經三讀通過立法院主決議在院會三讀通過我相信那天你可能也在\n144636\t154687\t通過了結果你們居然發文你們的產發局的科學園區管理局發文給廠商百萬文獎我都在這裡\n161411\t176759\t拜訪文講就是說不要理立法院你們就繼續蓋你們繼續蓋申請但是不要跟我申請你甩鍋給環境部所以你們這裡有環境部跟彰化縣政府環境部你看右邊這個文環境部說了\n180101\t190823\t上蘭用新建文化爐申請使用特種建築作業要點你們甩給黃金部 甩給黃金部不接說你的事丟臉丟手啦部長這個你可能都不知道你們產發署長這個產發署長啊這個要換人了 產發署長要不要講一講你怎麼發這個文你怎麼發這個文這個文就擺明了跟立法院的決議對幹勒\n210382\t216450\t現在立法院跟行政委員會已經夠緊張了結果你經濟部帶頭起來我們10月30號做了一個決議這個是聯合報昨天出來的很大篇的消息而且把彰化都弄出來了我們再看第二頁彰化已經久坐的焚化爐\n231067\t249762\t林佳龍承諾不會再興建鄭文燦也承諾不會再興建那時候的林佳龍是總統文秘書長那時候的鄭文燦是行政院的副院長兩大長官都承諾在彰化不要再蓋文化爐結果你們在回去的第1頁\n251378\t262158\t結果你們的一個文出來了這是經濟部產業發展署然後科學園區管理局所發出來的\n263797\t271083\t你看 這裡面喔 底下喔並未載明有本局審查 顯然解讀有異簡單來講就是 立法院的決議啊 像pass air一樣沒個慘很可惡啊 這個部長你才知道這個文你知道嗎我請他跟你報告一下我先請教你 這個文你知不知道文我不知道 是的嘛你可能被底下人給你闖空你闖 不會啦 不會這樣子我請他跟你報告一下這個署長 你這是怎麼樣 你是拿人家好處是不是\n294382\t316842\t應該給他蓋還怎麼樣來來書長講不是委員你可能誤會我請他直接跟你報告好來來來講講你講向委員報告第一個是他來申請特種建築物的部分是那特種建築物的部分審查不在我們局裡面所以我們才會行務我們立法院已經要求你會停了你還在審查什麼因為立法院已經決議停了四月就決議了十月份你還要給他\n319520\t331508\t那第二個委員有提到的就是說 立法院決議的部分我們也是朝著解約 要把...解約啦 你就是停 你們該講的是根據 壞人給立法院做根據立法院的決議 你們已經停了 沒有這個東西而且合約也到齊對不對 合約到齊了 到齊了人家另外一個以前的委員陳嘉華都說合約已經到齊啦\n350846\t354474\t那個合約要到明年才會到期明年才會到期\n355117\t355757\t報告委員 這個違約的話經濟部要賠償這個錢\n384997\t405363\t陪葬陪葬這些你推給立法院的陪葬什麼錢推給立法院呢是是謝謝委員知道不是如果我們做了你們不執行那立法院幹什麼立法院可以關掉了立法院可以關掉了你這個引起憲政上的危機喔你等於替卓榮泰又來一個\n406769\t408389\t媒體聯合報這麼大篇你準備怎麼做告訴我\n433362\t460063\t什麼?依照合約處理啦我們立法院不要管喔我們會依照立法院的決議然後依照合約的程序來處理聽不懂啦立法院決議叫你停啦立法院決議叫你停啦合約有合約處理的一個步驟啦我們要依照合約的步驟來處理合約比較重要還是立法院決議比較重要?決議我們就是遵照立法院的決議然後再來處理合約的部分\n461125\t478732\t河岳怎麼處理你問我你告訴我河岳他有一個處理的程序阿現在我們還在走這個程序但是我們就是遵照立法院的決議我現在拿到的文這是聯合報那邊給我的他是說\n480052\t507369\t你們就是叫他要蓋然後向中央政府申請向這個環境部申請結果都被打回去了報告委員我想很多的事情是不是我們直接跟你報告因為透過媒體也許這裡面有失分的部分啦一個禮拜你來給我報告好不好第二件等一下等一下那我把這個問題講完喔剛才我在財務會那邊審查你的追加一千億台電的預算不長啊\n508806\t515879\t我原來阿老實講我是中間偏支持阿可是上一次問你那句話我就不支持了\n516516\t543996\t你居然跟我說 我問你說 如果一千億沒有給你呢 增資 你說就舉債 喔 多大聲的舉債 你說很有錢的舉債就好結果我還要查了一下 你們的台電的負債1.6兆喔 這個要付利息的喔另外 利息不算的2.5兆 總共4點多兆的負債資本額五千多億 累計虧損四千多億 每年獲得利息是兩百多億\n545217\t564551\t你再借一千億 我問過財政部 你們借一千億 董事長可以講一千億利息多少 你告訴我 利息多少 你知道嗎 補償你才知道一千億的利息多少 看我的利率多少 台電嘛台電也可以從利率上面去寫幾%嘛 你跟我講幾% 差不多二三十億塊\n569242\t583175\t財政部長跟我講啦 平均1.5% 你們大概1.4% 所以只有14億你想喔 大家各位 各位偉大的台灣人民聽喔財政 台電要1000億 私塾無名 他沒有窮盡一切茫茫之力\n588880\t589080\t發言委員：賴士葆\n","txt":"謝謝主席以及各位先進有請經濟部的郭部長請郭部長\n委員好博長你好你對於你來這個立法你來公佈已經一段時間了啦你原來是大老闆出身的你對立法院的態度怎麼樣我不知道不太明白委員的垂詢是什麼意思我的意思就是說立法院的決議你又不要遵守因為我們代表人民\n立法院的決議你要不要遵守立法院的決議我要不要遵守對就法令規定我要遵守我就會遵守法令規定當然要遵守啊怎麼不要遵守不然我們做一大堆決議做假的啊那我現在告訴你一件事情\n立法院在4月30號通過一個要求章兵工業區停建金鼎焚化爐的決議案這個你知道吧?我知道結果你們在10月\n你們在10月25號居然發文給那些廠商說了簡單來講就是你們不甩這個決議你們要廠商提出一個\n要繼續蓋然後文送彰化縣政府文送環境部也就是說你們卸責因為立法院這裡你們不願意跟立法院對撞你們就說可以繼續走我們已經三讀通過立法院主決議在院會三讀通過我相信那天你可能也在\n通過了結果你們居然發文你們的產發局的科學園區管理局發文給廠商百萬文獎我都在這裡\n拜訪文講就是說不要理立法院你們就繼續蓋你們繼續蓋申請但是不要跟我申請你甩鍋給環境部所以你們這裡有環境部跟彰化縣政府環境部你看右邊這個文環境部說了\n上蘭用新建文化爐申請使用特種建築作業要點你們甩給黃金部 甩給黃金部不接說你的事丟臉丟手啦部長這個你可能都不知道你們產發署長這個產發署長啊這個要換人了 產發署長要不要講一講你怎麼發這個文你怎麼發這個文這個文就擺明了跟立法院的決議對幹勒\n現在立法院跟行政委員會已經夠緊張了結果你經濟部帶頭起來我們10月30號做了一個決議這個是聯合報昨天出來的很大篇的消息而且把彰化都弄出來了我們再看第二頁彰化已經久坐的焚化爐\n林佳龍承諾不會再興建鄭文燦也承諾不會再興建那時候的林佳龍是總統文秘書長那時候的鄭文燦是行政院的副院長兩大長官都承諾在彰化不要再蓋文化爐結果你們在回去的第1頁\n結果你們的一個文出來了這是經濟部產業發展署然後科學園區管理局所發出來的\n你看 這裡面喔 底下喔並未載明有本局審查 顯然解讀有異簡單來講就是 立法院的決議啊 像pass air一樣沒個慘很可惡啊 這個部長你才知道這個文你知道嗎我請他跟你報告一下我先請教你 這個文你知不知道文我不知道 是的嘛你可能被底下人給你闖空你闖 不會啦 不會這樣子我請他跟你報告一下這個署長 你這是怎麼樣 你是拿人家好處是不是\n應該給他蓋還怎麼樣來來書長講不是委員你可能誤會我請他直接跟你報告好來來來講講你講向委員報告第一個是他來申請特種建築物的部分是那特種建築物的部分審查不在我們局裡面所以我們才會行務我們立法院已經要求你會停了你還在審查什麼因為立法院已經決議停了四月就決議了十月份你還要給他\n那第二個委員有提到的就是說 立法院決議的部分我們也是朝著解約 要把...解約啦 你就是停 你們該講的是根據 壞人給立法院做根據立法院的決議 你們已經停了 沒有這個東西而且合約也到齊對不對 合約到齊了 到齊了人家另外一個以前的委員陳嘉華都說合約已經到齊啦\n那個合約要到明年才會到期明年才會到期\n報告委員 這個違約的話經濟部要賠償這個錢\n陪葬陪葬這些你推給立法院的陪葬什麼錢推給立法院呢是是謝謝委員知道不是如果我們做了你們不執行那立法院幹什麼立法院可以關掉了立法院可以關掉了你這個引起憲政上的危機喔你等於替卓榮泰又來一個\n媒體聯合報這麼大篇你準備怎麼做告訴我\n什麼?依照合約處理啦我們立法院不要管喔我們會依照立法院的決議然後依照合約的程序來處理聽不懂啦立法院決議叫你停啦立法院決議叫你停啦合約有合約處理的一個步驟啦我們要依照合約的步驟來處理合約比較重要還是立法院決議比較重要?決議我們就是遵照立法院的決議然後再來處理合約的部分\n河岳怎麼處理你問我你告訴我河岳他有一個處理的程序阿現在我們還在走這個程序但是我們就是遵照立法院的決議我現在拿到的文這是聯合報那邊給我的他是說\n你們就是叫他要蓋然後向中央政府申請向這個環境部申請結果都被打回去了報告委員我想很多的事情是不是我們直接跟你報告因為透過媒體也許這裡面有失分的部分啦一個禮拜你來給我報告好不好第二件等一下等一下那我把這個問題講完喔剛才我在財務會那邊審查你的追加一千億台電的預算不長啊\n我原來阿老實講我是中間偏支持阿可是上一次問你那句話我就不支持了\n你居然跟我說 我問你說 如果一千億沒有給你呢 增資 你說就舉債 喔 多大聲的舉債 你說很有錢的舉債就好結果我還要查了一下 你們的台電的負債1.6兆喔 這個要付利息的喔另外 利息不算的2.5兆 總共4點多兆的負債資本額五千多億 累計虧損四千多億 每年獲得利息是兩百多億\n你再借一千億 我問過財政部 你們借一千億 董事長可以講一千億利息多少 你告訴我 利息多少 你知道嗎 補償你才知道一千億的利息多少 看我的利率多少 台電嘛台電也可以從利率上面去寫幾%嘛 你跟我講幾% 差不多二三十億塊\n財政部長跟我講啦 平均1.5% 你們大概1.4% 所以只有14億你想喔 大家各位 各位偉大的台灣人民聽喔財政 台電要1000億 私塾無名 他沒有窮盡一切茫茫之力\n發言委員：賴士葆\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:18.536 --> 00:22.837\n謝謝主席以及各位先進有請經濟部的郭部長請郭部長\n\n00:31.192 --> 00:43.261\n委員好博長你好你對於你來這個立法你來公佈已經一段時間了啦你原來是大老闆出身的你對立法院的態度怎麼樣我不知道不太明白委員的垂詢是什麼意思我的意思就是說立法院的決議你又不要遵守因為我們代表人民\n\n01:01.297 --> 01:18.262\n立法院的決議你要不要遵守立法院的決議我要不要遵守對就法令規定我要遵守我就會遵守法令規定當然要遵守啊怎麼不要遵守不然我們做一大堆決議做假的啊那我現在告訴你一件事情\n\n01:20.322 --> 01:31.385\n立法院在4月30號通過一個要求章兵工業區停建金鼎焚化爐的決議案這個你知道吧?我知道結果你們在10月\n\n01:45.441 --> 01:50.608\n你們在10月25號居然發文給那些廠商說了簡單來講就是你們不甩這個決議你們要廠商提出一個\n\n02:01.345 --> 02:23.528\n要繼續蓋然後文送彰化縣政府文送環境部也就是說你們卸責因為立法院這裡你們不願意跟立法院對撞你們就說可以繼續走我們已經三讀通過立法院主決議在院會三讀通過我相信那天你可能也在\n\n02:24.636 --> 02:34.687\n通過了結果你們居然發文你們的產發局的科學園區管理局發文給廠商百萬文獎我都在這裡\n\n02:41.411 --> 02:56.759\n拜訪文講就是說不要理立法院你們就繼續蓋你們繼續蓋申請但是不要跟我申請你甩鍋給環境部所以你們這裡有環境部跟彰化縣政府環境部你看右邊這個文環境部說了\n\n03:00.101 --> 03:10.823\n上蘭用新建文化爐申請使用特種建築作業要點你們甩給黃金部甩給黃金部不接說你的事丟臉丟手啦部長這個你可能都不知道你們產發署長這個產發署長啊這個要換人了產發署長要不要講一講你怎麼發這個文你怎麼發這個文這個文就擺明了跟立法院的決議對幹勒\n\n03:30.382 --> 03:36.450\n現在立法院跟行政委員會已經夠緊張了結果你經濟部帶頭起來我們10月30號做了一個決議這個是聯合報昨天出來的很大篇的消息而且把彰化都弄出來了我們再看第二頁彰化已經久坐的焚化爐\n\n03:51.067 --> 04:09.762\n林佳龍承諾不會再興建鄭文燦也承諾不會再興建那時候的林佳龍是總統文秘書長那時候的鄭文燦是行政院的副院長兩大長官都承諾在彰化不要再蓋文化爐結果你們在回去的第1頁\n\n04:11.378 --> 04:22.158\n結果你們的一個文出來了這是經濟部產業發展署然後科學園區管理局所發出來的\n\n04:23.797 --> 04:31.083\n你看這裡面喔底下喔並未載明有本局審查顯然解讀有異簡單來講就是立法院的決議啊像passair一樣沒個慘很可惡啊這個部長你才知道這個文你知道嗎我請他跟你報告一下我先請教你這個文你知不知道文我不知道是的嘛你可能被底下人給你闖空你闖不會啦不會這樣子我請他跟你報告一下這個署長你這是怎麼樣你是拿人家好處是不是\n\n04:54.382 --> 05:16.842\n應該給他蓋還怎麼樣來來書長講不是委員你可能誤會我請他直接跟你報告好來來來講講你講向委員報告第一個是他來申請特種建築物的部分是那特種建築物的部分審查不在我們局裡面所以我們才會行務我們立法院已經要求你會停了你還在審查什麼因為立法院已經決議停了四月就決議了十月份你還要給他\n\n05:19.520 --> 05:31.508\n那第二個委員有提到的就是說立法院決議的部分我們也是朝著解約要把...解約啦你就是停你們該講的是根據壞人給立法院做根據立法院的決議你們已經停了沒有這個東西而且合約也到齊對不對合約到齊了到齊了人家另外一個以前的委員陳嘉華都說合約已經到齊啦\n\n05:50.846 --> 05:54.474\n那個合約要到明年才會到期明年才會到期\n\n05:55.117 --> 05:55.757\n報告委員這個違約的話經濟部要賠償這個錢\n\n06:24.997 --> 06:45.363\n陪葬陪葬這些你推給立法院的陪葬什麼錢推給立法院呢是是謝謝委員知道不是如果我們做了你們不執行那立法院幹什麼立法院可以關掉了立法院可以關掉了你這個引起憲政上的危機喔你等於替卓榮泰又來一個\n\n06:46.769 --> 06:48.389\n媒體聯合報這麼大篇你準備怎麼做告訴我\n\n07:13.362 --> 07:40.063\n什麼?依照合約處理啦我們立法院不要管喔我們會依照立法院的決議然後依照合約的程序來處理聽不懂啦立法院決議叫你停啦立法院決議叫你停啦合約有合約處理的一個步驟啦我們要依照合約的步驟來處理合約比較重要還是立法院決議比較重要?決議我們就是遵照立法院的決議然後再來處理合約的部分\n\n07:41.125 --> 07:58.732\n河岳怎麼處理你問我你告訴我河岳他有一個處理的程序阿現在我們還在走這個程序但是我們就是遵照立法院的決議我現在拿到的文這是聯合報那邊給我的他是說\n\n08:00.052 --> 08:27.369\n你們就是叫他要蓋然後向中央政府申請向這個環境部申請結果都被打回去了報告委員我想很多的事情是不是我們直接跟你報告因為透過媒體也許這裡面有失分的部分啦一個禮拜你來給我報告好不好第二件等一下等一下那我把這個問題講完喔剛才我在財務會那邊審查你的追加一千億台電的預算不長啊\n\n08:28.806 --> 08:35.879\n我原來阿老實講我是中間偏支持阿可是上一次問你那句話我就不支持了\n\n08:36.516 --> 09:03.996\n你居然跟我說我問你說如果一千億沒有給你呢增資你說就舉債喔多大聲的舉債你說很有錢的舉債就好結果我還要查了一下你們的台電的負債1.6兆喔這個要付利息的喔另外利息不算的2.5兆總共4點多兆的負債資本額五千多億累計虧損四千多億每年獲得利息是兩百多億\n\n09:05.217 --> 09:24.551\n你再借一千億我問過財政部你們借一千億董事長可以講一千億利息多少你告訴我利息多少你知道嗎補償你才知道一千億的利息多少看我的利率多少台電嘛台電也可以從利率上面去寫幾%嘛你跟我講幾%差不多二三十億塊\n\n09:29.242 --> 09:43.175\n財政部長跟我講啦平均1.5%你們大概1.4%所以只有14億你想喔大家各位各位偉大的台灣人民聽喔財政台電要1000億私塾無名他沒有窮盡一切茫茫之力\n\n09:48.880 --> 09:49.080\n發言委員：賴士葆\n\n","segments":[{"start":18.536,"end":22.837,"text":"謝謝主席以及各位先進有請經濟部的郭部長請郭部長"},{"start":31.192,"end":43.261,"text":"委員好博長你好你對於你來這個立法你來公佈已經一段時間了啦你原來是大老闆出身的你對立法院的態度怎麼樣我不知道不太明白委員的垂詢是什麼意思我的意思就是說立法院的決議你又不要遵守因為我們代表人民"},{"start":61.297,"end":78.262,"text":"立法院的決議你要不要遵守立法院的決議我要不要遵守對就法令規定我要遵守我就會遵守法令規定當然要遵守啊怎麼不要遵守不然我們做一大堆決議做假的啊那我現在告訴你一件事情"},{"start":80.322,"end":91.385,"text":"立法院在4月30號通過一個要求章兵工業區停建金鼎焚化爐的決議案這個你知道吧?我知道結果你們在10月"},{"start":105.441,"end":110.608,"text":"你們在10月25號居然發文給那些廠商說了簡單來講就是你們不甩這個決議你們要廠商提出一個"},{"start":121.345,"end":143.528,"text":"要繼續蓋然後文送彰化縣政府文送環境部也就是說你們卸責因為立法院這裡你們不願意跟立法院對撞你們就說可以繼續走我們已經三讀通過立法院主決議在院會三讀通過我相信那天你可能也在"},{"start":144.636,"end":154.687,"text":"通過了結果你們居然發文你們的產發局的科學園區管理局發文給廠商百萬文獎我都在這裡"},{"start":161.411,"end":176.759,"text":"拜訪文講就是說不要理立法院你們就繼續蓋你們繼續蓋申請但是不要跟我申請你甩鍋給環境部所以你們這裡有環境部跟彰化縣政府環境部你看右邊這個文環境部說了"},{"start":180.101,"end":190.823,"text":"上蘭用新建文化爐申請使用特種建築作業要點你們甩給黃金部 甩給黃金部不接說你的事丟臉丟手啦部長這個你可能都不知道你們產發署長這個產發署長啊這個要換人了 產發署長要不要講一講你怎麼發這個文你怎麼發這個文這個文就擺明了跟立法院的決議對幹勒"},{"start":210.382,"end":216.45,"text":"現在立法院跟行政委員會已經夠緊張了結果你經濟部帶頭起來我們10月30號做了一個決議這個是聯合報昨天出來的很大篇的消息而且把彰化都弄出來了我們再看第二頁彰化已經久坐的焚化爐"},{"start":231.067,"end":249.762,"text":"林佳龍承諾不會再興建鄭文燦也承諾不會再興建那時候的林佳龍是總統文秘書長那時候的鄭文燦是行政院的副院長兩大長官都承諾在彰化不要再蓋文化爐結果你們在回去的第1頁"},{"start":251.378,"end":262.158,"text":"結果你們的一個文出來了這是經濟部產業發展署然後科學園區管理局所發出來的"},{"start":263.797,"end":271.083,"text":"你看 這裡面喔 底下喔並未載明有本局審查 顯然解讀有異簡單來講就是 立法院的決議啊 像pass air一樣沒個慘很可惡啊 這個部長你才知道這個文你知道嗎我請他跟你報告一下我先請教你 這個文你知不知道文我不知道 是的嘛你可能被底下人給你闖空你闖 不會啦 不會這樣子我請他跟你報告一下這個署長 你這是怎麼樣 你是拿人家好處是不是"},{"start":294.382,"end":316.842,"text":"應該給他蓋還怎麼樣來來書長講不是委員你可能誤會我請他直接跟你報告好來來來講講你講向委員報告第一個是他來申請特種建築物的部分是那特種建築物的部分審查不在我們局裡面所以我們才會行務我們立法院已經要求你會停了你還在審查什麼因為立法院已經決議停了四月就決議了十月份你還要給他"},{"start":319.52,"end":331.508,"text":"那第二個委員有提到的就是說 立法院決議的部分我們也是朝著解約 要把...解約啦 你就是停 你們該講的是根據 壞人給立法院做根據立法院的決議 你們已經停了 沒有這個東西而且合約也到齊對不對 合約到齊了 到齊了人家另外一個以前的委員陳嘉華都說合約已經到齊啦"},{"start":350.846,"end":354.474,"text":"那個合約要到明年才會到期明年才會到期"},{"start":355.117,"end":355.757,"text":"報告委員 這個違約的話經濟部要賠償這個錢"},{"start":384.997,"end":405.363,"text":"陪葬陪葬這些你推給立法院的陪葬什麼錢推給立法院呢是是謝謝委員知道不是如果我們做了你們不執行那立法院幹什麼立法院可以關掉了立法院可以關掉了你這個引起憲政上的危機喔你等於替卓榮泰又來一個"},{"start":406.769,"end":408.389,"text":"媒體聯合報這麼大篇你準備怎麼做告訴我"},{"start":433.362,"end":460.063,"text":"什麼?依照合約處理啦我們立法院不要管喔我們會依照立法院的決議然後依照合約的程序來處理聽不懂啦立法院決議叫你停啦立法院決議叫你停啦合約有合約處理的一個步驟啦我們要依照合約的步驟來處理合約比較重要還是立法院決議比較重要?決議我們就是遵照立法院的決議然後再來處理合約的部分"},{"start":461.125,"end":478.732,"text":"河岳怎麼處理你問我你告訴我河岳他有一個處理的程序阿現在我們還在走這個程序但是我們就是遵照立法院的決議我現在拿到的文這是聯合報那邊給我的他是說"},{"start":480.052,"end":507.369,"text":"你們就是叫他要蓋然後向中央政府申請向這個環境部申請結果都被打回去了報告委員我想很多的事情是不是我們直接跟你報告因為透過媒體也許這裡面有失分的部分啦一個禮拜你來給我報告好不好第二件等一下等一下那我把這個問題講完喔剛才我在財務會那邊審查你的追加一千億台電的預算不長啊"},{"start":508.806,"end":515.879,"text":"我原來阿老實講我是中間偏支持阿可是上一次問你那句話我就不支持了"},{"start":516.516,"end":543.996,"text":"你居然跟我說 我問你說 如果一千億沒有給你呢 增資 你說就舉債 喔 多大聲的舉債 你說很有錢的舉債就好結果我還要查了一下 你們的台電的負債1.6兆喔 這個要付利息的喔另外 利息不算的2.5兆 總共4點多兆的負債資本額五千多億 累計虧損四千多億 每年獲得利息是兩百多億"},{"start":545.217,"end":564.551,"text":"你再借一千億 我問過財政部 你們借一千億 董事長可以講一千億利息多少 你告訴我 利息多少 你知道嗎 補償你才知道一千億的利息多少 看我的利率多少 台電嘛台電也可以從利率上面去寫幾%嘛 你跟我講幾% 差不多二三十億塊"},{"start":569.242,"end":583.175,"text":"財政部長跟我講啦 平均1.5% 你們大概1.4% 所以只有14億你想喔 大家各位 各位偉大的台灣人民聽喔財政 台電要1000億 私塾無名 他沒有窮盡一切茫茫之力"},{"start":588.88,"end":589.08,"text":"發言委員：賴士葆"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":636,"blocks":[["賴委員士葆：（10時53分）謝謝主席以及各位先進，有請經濟部郭部長。"],["主席：請郭部長。"],["郭部長智輝：委員好。"],["賴委員士葆：部長你好。你進入公部門已經一段時間了，你原來是大老闆出身的，你對立法院的態度怎麼樣？"],["郭部長智輝：我不知道、不太明白委員的垂詢是什麼意思。"],["賴委員士葆：我的意思是，立法院的決議，你要不要遵守？因為我們代表人民。立法院的決議，你要不要遵守？"],["郭部長智輝：立法院的決議，我要不要遵守？"],["賴委員士葆：對。"],["郭部長智輝：法令規定我要遵守，我就會遵守。"],["賴委員士葆：法律規定當然要遵守，怎麼不要遵守？不然我們做一大堆決議做假的啊？我現在就告訴你一件事情，立法院在4月30號通過要求彰濱工業區停建晶鼎焚化爐的決議案，這個你知道吧？你知道這件事吧？"],["郭部長智輝：我知道。"],["賴委員士葆：結果你們在10月25號居然發文給那些廠商，簡單來講，就是你們不喜歡這個決議，你們要廠商提出一個要繼續蓋的文，然後文送彰化縣政府、文送環境部，也就是說你們卸責，因為你們不願意跟立法院對撞，你們就說可以繼續進行。我們已經三讀通過，立法院主決議在院會三讀通過，我相信那天你可能也在，通過了，結果你們的產發署產業園區管理局居然發文給廠商，文都在這裡，白話文講的就是不要理立法院，他們就繼續蓋，但是不要跟你們申請，你們甩鍋給環境部，所以你們這裡有環境部跟彰化縣政府。你看右邊這個文，環境部說了：尚難適用興建焚化爐申請適用特種建築作業要點。你們甩給環境部，環境部不接，說這是你的事情，丟臉丟死了，部長，這個你可能都不知道，你們產發署長要換人了，產發署長要不要講一講，你怎麼發這個文？你怎麼發這個文？這個文就擺明了跟立法院的決議對幹耶！現在立法院跟行政院的關係已經夠緊張了，結果你經濟部帶頭起來，我們4月30號做了一個決議。這個是聯合報昨天出來很大篇的消息，而且把彰化都弄出來了。","我們再來看，彰化已經有9座焚化爐，而且林佳龍承諾不會再興建，鄭文燦也承諾不會再興建，那時候的林佳龍是總統府秘書長，那時候的鄭文燦是行政院副院長。兩大長官都承諾在彰化不要再蓋焚化爐，結果你們的文出來了，這是經濟部產業發展署科學園區管理局所發出來的。你看，底下就寫「並未載明由本局審查，顯然解讀有異」，簡單來講，就是立法院的決議像pass 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down，比如說有核電，然後它就跟我們要1,000億，結果部長上個禮拜講：我去借啊！它的利息只要十幾億、14億，那你就去借啊。所以我原來傾向於支持你們的，現在我反對這項政治案，謝謝。"],["主席：休息5分鐘。","休息（11時3分）","繼續開會（11時9分）"],["主席：繼續開會，請各位就座。","現在請陳培瑜、陳培瑜，陳培瑜委員不在。","請邱志偉召委質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":308,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-17","speakers":["呂玉玲","賴瑞隆","林岱樺","邱議瑩","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","楊瓊瓔","陳亭妃","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","賴士葆","邱志偉","謝衣鳯","林月琴","蔡易餘","黃國昌","牛煦庭","陳超明","鍾佳濱","何欣純","葉元之","林倩綺","洪孟楷","張嘉郡"],"page_start":245,"meetingDate":["2024-11-27"],"gazette_id":"11310501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310501_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於經濟部及所屬單位預算部分（詢答）","agenda_id":"11310501_00012"}}}