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{\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 595.354, \"end\": 595.374, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"羅\"}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 596.474, \"end\": 596.574, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"財\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 596.574, \"end\": 596.594, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,570 --> 00:00:12,912\n謝謝主席有請經濟部能源署吳副署長台電曾董事長能源署吳副署長還有我們台電那個曾文生董事長\n\n2\n00:00:18,487 --> 00:00:44,888\n副處長、董事長好今天我是要來感謝也有一些要求那為什麼要特別感謝因為我們長期看到其實原偏鄉很會停電那停電的原因其實蠻多樣的舉個例子來講颱風常常從南台灣上來所以呢像那個一望無際的地方那些電竿、電線\n\n3\n00:00:46,789 --> 00:01:12,347\n他很容易呢就傾倒然後就造成停電那有一些地方呢是因為發展觀光像他們要來拍電影當時要拍斯卡羅到處都是電線所以有一些是基於觀光需求那有一些部落呢不知道電竿電線是怎麼建置的又長又密又多那經常造成行車的安全\n\n4\n00:01:13,247 --> 00:01:39,367\n有一些地方是因為山林都是樹所以跟這些電幹電線打在一起經常有火災發生總而言之原因非常的多那我也要感謝在我們的反應之後我們表達原鄉也很需要電纜地下化那有一些地區謝謝我們台電願意來協助但是無論如何原住民地區很大\n\n5\n00:01:55,969 --> 00:02:20,995\n通通都是提到一年停電超過100次那甚至是有的里長跟我們陳情說電器設備都壞掉啦電電箱壞掉啦平均一周斷電5次啊然後呢提到說連外包商都找不到電力輸送的問題到底在哪每一次都回應說是這些動物植物來破壞電力\n\n6\n00:02:22,375 --> 00:02:43,533\n最嚴重的是很多的年輕人回來經營產業露營區但是飽受斷電的困擾最後都決定再回到大都會所以我覺得在我們這個當中除了剛才我講的電纜地下化我們也很需要自己原鄉地區電力的建構\n\n7\n00:02:44,674 --> 00:03:10,288\n所以以復興區來講這一位區長他就主動的跟外面的學者專家合作他們怎麼做呢?他們用一種移動式的探經濟電廠他是移動式的每一次就去收這一些封島木樹枝然後呢做成再生能源那希望呢可以作為一些備用的能源那也能夠發電那可是\n\n8\n00:03:43,331 --> 00:04:10,203\n竟然沒有什麼誘因為了獲得一千萬的補助他必須要花四千萬自己去買設備所以呢沒有一個相公所做得到我們也鼓勵合作社地方協會參與但是他的總裝置容量要十千瓦以上等等這些都發現至愛難行那妙的是呢我在11月11號呢得到的回覆回覆說\n\n9\n00:04:13,185 --> 00:04:24,478\n所以我11月20號又開了協調會那總而言之我是想要請教一下既然我們設置了這些獎勵的鼓勵的辦法\n\n10\n00:04:49,167 --> 00:05:00,937\n我覺得經濟部是不是應該好好的去針對這些辦法好好的修正放寬獎勵標準更友善那是不是可以在一週內提出修正\n\n11\n00:05:03,321 --> 00:05:19,074\n跟委員報告一下,剛剛委員講的那個移動式的那個應該是它力料的部分,那我們所謂的因為發電設備有分成就是說磁器發電的那個是因為它跟台電連在一起,它那個一定要是固定的,因為它還確定說那個連上去的設備是什麼\n\n12\n00:05:19,795 --> 00:05:39,963\n但是委員說那個移動的部分因為它力量的部分那個我們沒有特別的規定那委員說那個原住民這個就是設置獎勵辦法還有這個這個我們會再檢討但是請給委員多給我們一點時間因為這個裡面涉及到很多利害關係的人我們現在正在檢討當中好我剛剛提到三種的辦法法規來那個董事長請\n\n13\n00:05:41,667 --> 00:05:41,687\n委員會長\n\n14\n00:05:59,199 --> 00:06:19,401\n臺電的狀況會是這樣就是說你在部落內我們現在其實是在推微電網我知道委員一定清楚這個是其實因為我要從山下這樣一路上去喔中間受到影響的機會太高了那其實坦白講部落停電有很多時候故障的都不是部落內部的線路而是我送到部落的大潰線斷掉\n\n15\n00:06:20,962 --> 00:06:43,179\n像您剛才舉的幾個例子我們遇到不管是復興或哪裡都是這種狀況我們會盡量來加快改善但我也跟委員報告現在我們有些地方我們很怕就颱風來入段我們甚至都在入段之前把人就已經先擺到部落裡面去準備修復這幾年我們其實做了很多改變所以這種防災的電網很重要斷訊斷路\n\n16\n00:06:46,221 --> 00:06:58,249\n我們現在是這樣子講,我們想要因為關鍵是斷訊啦那斷訊的部分還要跟中華電信一起來合作那原則上我們希望能夠在部落找到一個公共地點來做就是\n\n17\n00:06:59,383 --> 00:07:00,845\n臺電的整個發電量配比,火力再生能源幾乎就佔了九成。\n\n18\n00:07:19,267 --> 00:07:42,019\n然後這個當中50%都在燃料上面所以呢他的一個成本造成你們的發電成本購電成本不斷的上升我看到預算中心的這個數據以你們的發電成本的火力發電109年1.7塊的現在都已經要3.5那或者是像再生聯園的108年1.5現在都要2.58\n\n19\n00:07:46,642 --> 00:07:58,291\n在你們購入的電力呢,民營電廠可能以前兩塊多,現在都要四塊多。再生能源以前要三四塊,現在都要五塊多。所以我其實是說導致你們說虧損連連嘛,然後說需要追加預算嘛。\n\n20\n00:08:02,634 --> 00:08:25,095\n那如果接下來國際燃料繼續上升的狀況下我們的電價成本也是會繼續上升那你們的對策到底是什麼我們總不可能年年追加預算所以因為時間的關係我想這個就一併給我回覆等一下後面一併回覆所以我想問台電你們目前購買多少原箱電力你們有購買到原箱電力嗎\n\n21\n00:08:27,386 --> 00:08:44,902\n委員報告因為原廂大概都不會是發電去是啊送上去比較多是啊所以因為臺電的能源政策像這種你們寫的設置太陽光電系統風力機組等等這種可能不適合我們部落的生態我們需要的是小型電網這種小型的發電系統就像您剛剛董事長所說的\n\n22\n00:09:12,079 --> 00:09:12,459\n委員（伍麗華Saidhai\n\n23\n00:09:27,728 --> 00:09:55,374\n像你們進來做發電常常有很多的糾紛啊像是這些萬里水利發電就花了很多的時間在處理部落關係的認定這個是耗時耗力耗心力又或者像你們過去台電有很多用我們原住民私人的土地可是因為我們當時還沒有所有權結果引起很多的糾紛因為你們會還給相公所然後導致這些私有的地主我們現在已經有權利回復辦法\n\n24\n00:09:56,474 --> 00:09:56,594\n羅明財委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n570\t12912\t謝謝主席有請經濟部能源署吳副署長台電曾董事長能源署吳副署長還有我們台電那個曾文生董事長\n18487\t44888\t副處長、董事長好今天我是要來感謝也有一些要求那為什麼要特別感謝因為我們長期看到其實原偏鄉很會停電那停電的原因其實蠻多樣的舉個例子來講颱風常常從南台灣上來所以呢像那個一望無際的地方那些電竿、電線\n46789\t72347\t他很容易呢就傾倒然後就造成停電那有一些地方呢是因為發展觀光像他們要來拍電影當時要拍斯卡羅到處都是電線所以有一些是基於觀光需求那有一些部落呢不知道電竿電線是怎麼建置的又長又密又多那經常造成行車的安全\n73247\t99367\t有一些地方是因為山林都是樹所以跟這些電幹電線打在一起經常有火災發生總而言之原因非常的多那我也要感謝在我們的反應之後我們表達原鄉也很需要電纜地下化那有一些地區謝謝我們台電願意來協助但是無論如何原住民地區很大\n100128\t115589\t﹏﹏\n115969\t140995\t通通都是提到一年停電超過100次那甚至是有的里長跟我們陳情說電器設備都壞掉啦電電箱壞掉啦平均一周斷電5次啊然後呢提到說連外包商都找不到電力輸送的問題到底在哪每一次都回應說是這些動物植物來破壞電力\n142375\t163533\t最嚴重的是很多的年輕人回來經營產業露營區但是飽受斷電的困擾最後都決定再回到大都會所以我覺得在我們這個當中除了剛才我講的電纜地下化我們也很需要自己原鄉地區電力的建構\n164674\t190288\t所以以復興區來講這一位區長他就主動的跟外面的學者專家合作他們怎麼做呢?他們用一種移動式的探經濟電廠他是移動式的每一次就去收這一些封島木樹枝然後呢做成再生能源那希望呢可以作為一些備用的能源那也能夠發電那可是\n192329\t207346\t﹏﹏\n207346\t223251\t﹗\n223331\t250203\t竟然沒有什麼誘因為了獲得一千萬的補助他必須要花四千萬自己去買設備所以呢沒有一個相公所做得到我們也鼓勵合作社地方協會參與但是他的總裝置容量要十千瓦以上等等這些都發現至愛難行那妙的是呢我在11月11號呢得到的回覆回覆說\n253185\t264478\t所以我11月20號又開了協調會那總而言之我是想要請教一下既然我們設置了這些獎勵的鼓勵的辦法\n266220\t289087\t﹏﹏\n289167\t300937\t我覺得經濟部是不是應該好好的去針對這些辦法好好的修正放寬獎勵標準更友善那是不是可以在一週內提出修正\n303321\t319074\t跟委員報告一下,剛剛委員講的那個移動式的那個應該是它力料的部分,那我們所謂的因為發電設備有分成就是說磁器發電的那個是因為它跟台電連在一起,它那個一定要是固定的,因為它還確定說那個連上去的設備是什麼\n319795\t339963\t但是委員說那個移動的部分因為它力量的部分那個我們沒有特別的規定那委員說那個原住民這個就是設置獎勵辦法還有這個這個我們會再檢討但是請給委員多給我們一點時間因為這個裡面涉及到很多利害關係的人我們現在正在檢討當中好我剛剛提到三種的辦法法規來那個董事長請\n341667\t341687\t委員會長\n359199\t379401\t臺電的狀況會是這樣就是說你在部落內我們現在其實是在推微電網我知道委員一定清楚這個是其實因為我要從山下這樣一路上去喔中間受到影響的機會太高了那其實坦白講部落停電有很多時候故障的都不是部落內部的線路而是我送到部落的大潰線斷掉\n380962\t403179\t像您剛才舉的幾個例子我們遇到不管是復興或哪裡都是這種狀況我們會盡量來加快改善但我也跟委員報告現在我們有些地方我們很怕就颱風來入段我們甚至都在入段之前把人就已經先擺到部落裡面去準備修復這幾年我們其實做了很多改變所以這種防災的電網很重要斷訊斷路\n406221\t418249\t我們現在是這樣子講,我們想要因為關鍵是斷訊啦那斷訊的部分還要跟中華電信一起來合作那原則上我們希望能夠在部落找到一個公共地點來做就是\n419383\t420845\t臺電的整個發電量配比,火力再生能源幾乎就佔了九成。\n439267\t462019\t然後這個當中50%都在燃料上面所以呢他的一個成本造成你們的發電成本購電成本不斷的上升我看到預算中心的這個數據以你們的發電成本的火力發電109年1.7塊的現在都已經要3.5那或者是像再生聯園的108年1.5現在都要2.58\n466642\t478291\t在你們購入的電力呢,民營電廠可能以前兩塊多,現在都要四塊多。再生能源以前要三四塊,現在都要五塊多。所以我其實是說導致你們說虧損連連嘛,然後說需要追加預算嘛。\n482634\t505095\t那如果接下來國際燃料繼續上升的狀況下我們的電價成本也是會繼續上升那你們的對策到底是什麼我們總不可能年年追加預算所以因為時間的關係我想這個就一併給我回覆等一下後面一併回覆所以我想問台電你們目前購買多少原箱電力你們有購買到原箱電力嗎\n507386\t524902\t委員報告因為原廂大概都不會是發電去 是啊 送上去比較多 是啊 所以因為臺電的能源政策像這種你們寫的設置太陽光電系統風力機組等等這種可能不適合我們部落的生態我們需要的是小型電網這種小型的發電系統就像您剛剛董事長所說的\n530026\t552039\t﹏﹏\n552079\t552459\t委員（伍麗華Saidhai\n567728\t595374\t像你們進來做發電常常有很多的糾紛啊像是這些萬里水利發電就花了很多的時間在處理部落關係的認定這個是耗時耗力耗心力又或者像你們過去台電有很多用我們原住民私人的土地可是因為我們當時還沒有所有權結果引起很多的糾紛因為你們會還給相公所然後導致這些私有的地主我們現在已經有權利回復辦法\n596474\t596594\t羅明財委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席有請經濟部能源署吳副署長台電曾董事長能源署吳副署長還有我們台電那個曾文生董事長\n副處長、董事長好今天我是要來感謝也有一些要求那為什麼要特別感謝因為我們長期看到其實原偏鄉很會停電那停電的原因其實蠻多樣的舉個例子來講颱風常常從南台灣上來所以呢像那個一望無際的地方那些電竿、電線\n他很容易呢就傾倒然後就造成停電那有一些地方呢是因為發展觀光像他們要來拍電影當時要拍斯卡羅到處都是電線所以有一些是基於觀光需求那有一些部落呢不知道電竿電線是怎麼建置的又長又密又多那經常造成行車的安全\n有一些地方是因為山林都是樹所以跟這些電幹電線打在一起經常有火災發生總而言之原因非常的多那我也要感謝在我們的反應之後我們表達原鄉也很需要電纜地下化那有一些地區謝謝我們台電願意來協助但是無論如何原住民地區很大\n﹏﹏\n通通都是提到一年停電超過100次那甚至是有的里長跟我們陳情說電器設備都壞掉啦電電箱壞掉啦平均一周斷電5次啊然後呢提到說連外包商都找不到電力輸送的問題到底在哪每一次都回應說是這些動物植物來破壞電力\n最嚴重的是很多的年輕人回來經營產業露營區但是飽受斷電的困擾最後都決定再回到大都會所以我覺得在我們這個當中除了剛才我講的電纜地下化我們也很需要自己原鄉地區電力的建構\n所以以復興區來講這一位區長他就主動的跟外面的學者專家合作他們怎麼做呢?他們用一種移動式的探經濟電廠他是移動式的每一次就去收這一些封島木樹枝然後呢做成再生能源那希望呢可以作為一些備用的能源那也能夠發電那可是\n﹏﹏\n﹗\n竟然沒有什麼誘因為了獲得一千萬的補助他必須要花四千萬自己去買設備所以呢沒有一個相公所做得到我們也鼓勵合作社地方協會參與但是他的總裝置容量要十千瓦以上等等這些都發現至愛難行那妙的是呢我在11月11號呢得到的回覆回覆說\n所以我11月20號又開了協調會那總而言之我是想要請教一下既然我們設置了這些獎勵的鼓勵的辦法\n﹏﹏\n我覺得經濟部是不是應該好好的去針對這些辦法好好的修正放寬獎勵標準更友善那是不是可以在一週內提出修正\n跟委員報告一下,剛剛委員講的那個移動式的那個應該是它力料的部分,那我們所謂的因為發電設備有分成就是說磁器發電的那個是因為它跟台電連在一起,它那個一定要是固定的,因為它還確定說那個連上去的設備是什麼\n但是委員說那個移動的部分因為它力量的部分那個我們沒有特別的規定那委員說那個原住民這個就是設置獎勵辦法還有這個這個我們會再檢討但是請給委員多給我們一點時間因為這個裡面涉及到很多利害關係的人我們現在正在檢討當中好我剛剛提到三種的辦法法規來那個董事長請\n委員會長\n臺電的狀況會是這樣就是說你在部落內我們現在其實是在推微電網我知道委員一定清楚這個是其實因為我要從山下這樣一路上去喔中間受到影響的機會太高了那其實坦白講部落停電有很多時候故障的都不是部落內部的線路而是我送到部落的大潰線斷掉\n像您剛才舉的幾個例子我們遇到不管是復興或哪裡都是這種狀況我們會盡量來加快改善但我也跟委員報告現在我們有些地方我們很怕就颱風來入段我們甚至都在入段之前把人就已經先擺到部落裡面去準備修復這幾年我們其實做了很多改變所以這種防災的電網很重要斷訊斷路\n我們現在是這樣子講,我們想要因為關鍵是斷訊啦那斷訊的部分還要跟中華電信一起來合作那原則上我們希望能夠在部落找到一個公共地點來做就是\n臺電的整個發電量配比,火力再生能源幾乎就佔了九成。\n然後這個當中50%都在燃料上面所以呢他的一個成本造成你們的發電成本購電成本不斷的上升我看到預算中心的這個數據以你們的發電成本的火力發電109年1.7塊的現在都已經要3.5那或者是像再生聯園的108年1.5現在都要2.58\n在你們購入的電力呢,民營電廠可能以前兩塊多,現在都要四塊多。再生能源以前要三四塊,現在都要五塊多。所以我其實是說導致你們說虧損連連嘛,然後說需要追加預算嘛。\n那如果接下來國際燃料繼續上升的狀況下我們的電價成本也是會繼續上升那你們的對策到底是什麼我們總不可能年年追加預算所以因為時間的關係我想這個就一併給我回覆等一下後面一併回覆所以我想問台電你們目前購買多少原箱電力你們有購買到原箱電力嗎\n委員報告因為原廂大概都不會是發電去 是啊 送上去比較多 是啊 所以因為臺電的能源政策像這種你們寫的設置太陽光電系統風力機組等等這種可能不適合我們部落的生態我們需要的是小型電網這種小型的發電系統就像您剛剛董事長所說的\n﹏﹏\n委員（伍麗華Saidhai\n像你們進來做發電常常有很多的糾紛啊像是這些萬里水利發電就花了很多的時間在處理部落關係的認定這個是耗時耗力耗心力又或者像你們過去台電有很多用我們原住民私人的土地可是因為我們當時還沒有所有權結果引起很多的糾紛因為你們會還給相公所然後導致這些私有的地主我們現在已經有權利回復辦法\n羅明財委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.570 --> 00:12.912\n謝謝主席有請經濟部能源署吳副署長台電曾董事長能源署吳副署長還有我們台電那個曾文生董事長\n\n00:18.487 --> 00:44.888\n副處長、董事長好今天我是要來感謝也有一些要求那為什麼要特別感謝因為我們長期看到其實原偏鄉很會停電那停電的原因其實蠻多樣的舉個例子來講颱風常常從南台灣上來所以呢像那個一望無際的地方那些電竿、電線\n\n00:46.789 --> 01:12.347\n他很容易呢就傾倒然後就造成停電那有一些地方呢是因為發展觀光像他們要來拍電影當時要拍斯卡羅到處都是電線所以有一些是基於觀光需求那有一些部落呢不知道電竿電線是怎麼建置的又長又密又多那經常造成行車的安全\n\n01:13.247 --> 01:39.367\n有一些地方是因為山林都是樹所以跟這些電幹電線打在一起經常有火災發生總而言之原因非常的多那我也要感謝在我們的反應之後我們表達原鄉也很需要電纜地下化那有一些地區謝謝我們台電願意來協助但是無論如何原住民地區很大\n\n01:55.969 --> 02:20.995\n通通都是提到一年停電超過100次那甚至是有的里長跟我們陳情說電器設備都壞掉啦電電箱壞掉啦平均一周斷電5次啊然後呢提到說連外包商都找不到電力輸送的問題到底在哪每一次都回應說是這些動物植物來破壞電力\n\n02:22.375 --> 02:43.533\n最嚴重的是很多的年輕人回來經營產業露營區但是飽受斷電的困擾最後都決定再回到大都會所以我覺得在我們這個當中除了剛才我講的電纜地下化我們也很需要自己原鄉地區電力的建構\n\n02:44.674 --> 03:10.288\n所以以復興區來講這一位區長他就主動的跟外面的學者專家合作他們怎麼做呢?他們用一種移動式的探經濟電廠他是移動式的每一次就去收這一些封島木樹枝然後呢做成再生能源那希望呢可以作為一些備用的能源那也能夠發電那可是\n\n03:43.331 --> 04:10.203\n竟然沒有什麼誘因為了獲得一千萬的補助他必須要花四千萬自己去買設備所以呢沒有一個相公所做得到我們也鼓勵合作社地方協會參與但是他的總裝置容量要十千瓦以上等等這些都發現至愛難行那妙的是呢我在11月11號呢得到的回覆回覆說\n\n04:13.185 --> 04:24.478\n所以我11月20號又開了協調會那總而言之我是想要請教一下既然我們設置了這些獎勵的鼓勵的辦法\n\n04:49.167 --> 05:00.937\n我覺得經濟部是不是應該好好的去針對這些辦法好好的修正放寬獎勵標準更友善那是不是可以在一週內提出修正\n\n05:03.321 --> 05:19.074\n跟委員報告一下,剛剛委員講的那個移動式的那個應該是它力料的部分,那我們所謂的因為發電設備有分成就是說磁器發電的那個是因為它跟台電連在一起,它那個一定要是固定的,因為它還確定說那個連上去的設備是什麼\n\n05:19.795 --> 05:39.963\n但是委員說那個移動的部分因為它力量的部分那個我們沒有特別的規定那委員說那個原住民這個就是設置獎勵辦法還有這個這個我們會再檢討但是請給委員多給我們一點時間因為這個裡面涉及到很多利害關係的人我們現在正在檢討當中好我剛剛提到三種的辦法法規來那個董事長請\n\n05:41.667 --> 05:41.687\n委員會長\n\n05:59.199 --> 06:19.401\n臺電的狀況會是這樣就是說你在部落內我們現在其實是在推微電網我知道委員一定清楚這個是其實因為我要從山下這樣一路上去喔中間受到影響的機會太高了那其實坦白講部落停電有很多時候故障的都不是部落內部的線路而是我送到部落的大潰線斷掉\n\n06:20.962 --> 06:43.179\n像您剛才舉的幾個例子我們遇到不管是復興或哪裡都是這種狀況我們會盡量來加快改善但我也跟委員報告現在我們有些地方我們很怕就颱風來入段我們甚至都在入段之前把人就已經先擺到部落裡面去準備修復這幾年我們其實做了很多改變所以這種防災的電網很重要斷訊斷路\n\n06:46.221 --> 06:58.249\n我們現在是這樣子講,我們想要因為關鍵是斷訊啦那斷訊的部分還要跟中華電信一起來合作那原則上我們希望能夠在部落找到一個公共地點來做就是\n\n06:59.383 --> 07:00.845\n臺電的整個發電量配比,火力再生能源幾乎就佔了九成。\n\n07:19.267 --> 07:42.019\n然後這個當中50%都在燃料上面所以呢他的一個成本造成你們的發電成本購電成本不斷的上升我看到預算中心的這個數據以你們的發電成本的火力發電109年1.7塊的現在都已經要3.5那或者是像再生聯園的108年1.5現在都要2.58\n\n07:46.642 --> 07:58.291\n在你們購入的電力呢,民營電廠可能以前兩塊多,現在都要四塊多。再生能源以前要三四塊,現在都要五塊多。所以我其實是說導致你們說虧損連連嘛,然後說需要追加預算嘛。\n\n08:02.634 --> 08:25.095\n那如果接下來國際燃料繼續上升的狀況下我們的電價成本也是會繼續上升那你們的對策到底是什麼我們總不可能年年追加預算所以因為時間的關係我想這個就一併給我回覆等一下後面一併回覆所以我想問台電你們目前購買多少原箱電力你們有購買到原箱電力嗎\n\n08:27.386 --> 08:44.902\n委員報告因為原廂大概都不會是發電去是啊送上去比較多是啊所以因為臺電的能源政策像這種你們寫的設置太陽光電系統風力機組等等這種可能不適合我們部落的生態我們需要的是小型電網這種小型的發電系統就像您剛剛董事長所說的\n\n09:12.079 --> 09:12.459\n委員（伍麗華Saidhai\n\n09:27.728 --> 09:55.374\n像你們進來做發電常常有很多的糾紛啊像是這些萬里水利發電就花了很多的時間在處理部落關係的認定這個是耗時耗力耗心力又或者像你們過去台電有很多用我們原住民私人的土地可是因為我們當時還沒有所有權結果引起很多的糾紛因為你們會還給相公所然後導致這些私有的地主我們現在已經有權利回復辦法\n\n09:56.474 --> 09:56.594\n羅明財委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.57,"end":12.912,"text":"謝謝主席有請經濟部能源署吳副署長台電曾董事長能源署吳副署長還有我們台電那個曾文生董事長"},{"start":18.487,"end":44.888,"text":"副處長、董事長好今天我是要來感謝也有一些要求那為什麼要特別感謝因為我們長期看到其實原偏鄉很會停電那停電的原因其實蠻多樣的舉個例子來講颱風常常從南台灣上來所以呢像那個一望無際的地方那些電竿、電線"},{"start":46.789,"end":72.347,"text":"他很容易呢就傾倒然後就造成停電那有一些地方呢是因為發展觀光像他們要來拍電影當時要拍斯卡羅到處都是電線所以有一些是基於觀光需求那有一些部落呢不知道電竿電線是怎麼建置的又長又密又多那經常造成行車的安全"},{"start":73.247,"end":99.367,"text":"有一些地方是因為山林都是樹所以跟這些電幹電線打在一起經常有火災發生總而言之原因非常的多那我也要感謝在我們的反應之後我們表達原鄉也很需要電纜地下化那有一些地區謝謝我們台電願意來協助但是無論如何原住民地區很大"},{"start":100.128,"end":115.589,"text":"﹏﹏"},{"start":115.969,"end":140.995,"text":"通通都是提到一年停電超過100次那甚至是有的里長跟我們陳情說電器設備都壞掉啦電電箱壞掉啦平均一周斷電5次啊然後呢提到說連外包商都找不到電力輸送的問題到底在哪每一次都回應說是這些動物植物來破壞電力"},{"start":142.375,"end":163.533,"text":"最嚴重的是很多的年輕人回來經營產業露營區但是飽受斷電的困擾最後都決定再回到大都會所以我覺得在我們這個當中除了剛才我講的電纜地下化我們也很需要自己原鄉地區電力的建構"},{"start":164.674,"end":190.288,"text":"所以以復興區來講這一位區長他就主動的跟外面的學者專家合作他們怎麼做呢?他們用一種移動式的探經濟電廠他是移動式的每一次就去收這一些封島木樹枝然後呢做成再生能源那希望呢可以作為一些備用的能源那也能夠發電那可是"},{"start":192.329,"end":207.346,"text":"﹏﹏"},{"start":207.346,"end":223.251,"text":"﹗"},{"start":223.331,"end":250.203,"text":"竟然沒有什麼誘因為了獲得一千萬的補助他必須要花四千萬自己去買設備所以呢沒有一個相公所做得到我們也鼓勵合作社地方協會參與但是他的總裝置容量要十千瓦以上等等這些都發現至愛難行那妙的是呢我在11月11號呢得到的回覆回覆說"},{"start":253.185,"end":264.478,"text":"所以我11月20號又開了協調會那總而言之我是想要請教一下既然我們設置了這些獎勵的鼓勵的辦法"},{"start":266.22,"end":289.087,"text":"﹏﹏"},{"start":289.167,"end":300.937,"text":"我覺得經濟部是不是應該好好的去針對這些辦法好好的修正放寬獎勵標準更友善那是不是可以在一週內提出修正"},{"start":303.321,"end":319.074,"text":"跟委員報告一下,剛剛委員講的那個移動式的那個應該是它力料的部分,那我們所謂的因為發電設備有分成就是說磁器發電的那個是因為它跟台電連在一起,它那個一定要是固定的,因為它還確定說那個連上去的設備是什麼"},{"start":319.795,"end":339.963,"text":"但是委員說那個移動的部分因為它力量的部分那個我們沒有特別的規定那委員說那個原住民這個就是設置獎勵辦法還有這個這個我們會再檢討但是請給委員多給我們一點時間因為這個裡面涉及到很多利害關係的人我們現在正在檢討當中好我剛剛提到三種的辦法法規來那個董事長請"},{"start":341.667,"end":341.687,"text":"委員會長"},{"start":359.199,"end":379.401,"text":"臺電的狀況會是這樣就是說你在部落內我們現在其實是在推微電網我知道委員一定清楚這個是其實因為我要從山下這樣一路上去喔中間受到影響的機會太高了那其實坦白講部落停電有很多時候故障的都不是部落內部的線路而是我送到部落的大潰線斷掉"},{"start":380.962,"end":403.179,"text":"像您剛才舉的幾個例子我們遇到不管是復興或哪裡都是這種狀況我們會盡量來加快改善但我也跟委員報告現在我們有些地方我們很怕就颱風來入段我們甚至都在入段之前把人就已經先擺到部落裡面去準備修復這幾年我們其實做了很多改變所以這種防災的電網很重要斷訊斷路"},{"start":406.221,"end":418.249,"text":"我們現在是這樣子講,我們想要因為關鍵是斷訊啦那斷訊的部分還要跟中華電信一起來合作那原則上我們希望能夠在部落找到一個公共地點來做就是"},{"start":419.383,"end":420.845,"text":"臺電的整個發電量配比,火力再生能源幾乎就佔了九成。"},{"start":439.267,"end":462.019,"text":"然後這個當中50%都在燃料上面所以呢他的一個成本造成你們的發電成本購電成本不斷的上升我看到預算中心的這個數據以你們的發電成本的火力發電109年1.7塊的現在都已經要3.5那或者是像再生聯園的108年1.5現在都要2.58"},{"start":466.642,"end":478.291,"text":"在你們購入的電力呢,民營電廠可能以前兩塊多,現在都要四塊多。再生能源以前要三四塊,現在都要五塊多。所以我其實是說導致你們說虧損連連嘛,然後說需要追加預算嘛。"},{"start":482.634,"end":505.095,"text":"那如果接下來國際燃料繼續上升的狀況下我們的電價成本也是會繼續上升那你們的對策到底是什麼我們總不可能年年追加預算所以因為時間的關係我想這個就一併給我回覆等一下後面一併回覆所以我想問台電你們目前購買多少原箱電力你們有購買到原箱電力嗎"},{"start":507.386,"end":524.902,"text":"委員報告因為原廂大概都不會是發電去 是啊 送上去比較多 是啊 所以因為臺電的能源政策像這種你們寫的設置太陽光電系統風力機組等等這種可能不適合我們部落的生態我們需要的是小型電網這種小型的發電系統就像您剛剛董事長所說的"},{"start":530.026,"end":552.039,"text":"﹏﹏"},{"start":552.079,"end":552.459,"text":"委員（伍麗華Saidhai"},{"start":567.728,"end":595.374,"text":"像你們進來做發電常常有很多的糾紛啊像是這些萬里水利發電就花了很多的時間在處理部落關係的認定這個是耗時耗力耗心力又或者像你們過去台電有很多用我們原住民私人的土地可是因為我們當時還沒有所有權結果引起很多的糾紛因為你們會還給相公所然後導致這些私有的地主我們現在已經有權利回復辦法"},{"start":596.474,"end":596.594,"text":"羅明財委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":845,"blocks":[["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：（12時18分）謝謝主席，有請經濟部能源署吳副署長、台電曾董事長。"],["主席：能源署吳副署長，還有台電曾文生董事長。"],["吳副署長志偉：委員好。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：副署長、董事長好。今天我是要來感謝，也有一些要求。為什麼要特別感謝？因為我們長期看到原偏鄉很會停電，停電的原因其實滿多樣的，舉個例子來講，颱風常常從南臺灣上來，所以一望無際的地方那些電桿、電線很容易就傾倒，然後就造成停電；有一些地方是因為發展觀光，像是要拍電影，當時要拍《斯卡羅》，到處都是電線，所以有一些是基於觀光需求；有一些部落不知道電桿、電線是怎麼建置的，又長、又密、又多，經常造成行車安全上的問題；有一些地方是因為山林都是樹，所以跟這些電桿、電線打在一起，經常有火災發生，總而言之，原因非常的多！我也要感謝，在我們反映之後，我們表達原鄉也很需要電纜地下化，有一些地區謝謝台電願意來協助。但是無論如何，原住民地區很大，停電如果成為日常，會非常的困擾，尤其是這些地方父母官，不停的接到抱怨、陳情。","舉個例子，像最有名的桃園復興區經常上榜，這些年來統統都是提到一年停電超過一百次，甚至有的里長跟我們陳情說電器設備都壞掉啦、變電箱壞掉啦、平均一週斷電五次啊！然後提到連外包商都找不到電力輸送的問題到底在哪，每一次都回應說是動物、植物在破壞電力。最嚴重的是很多年輕人回來經營產業露營區，但是飽受斷電的困擾，最後都決定再回到大都會。所以我覺得在這當中，除了剛才我講的電纜地下化，我們也很需要自己原鄉地區電力的建構，以復興區來講，這一位區長他就主動跟外面的學者專家合作，他們怎麼做呢？他們用一種移動式的碳經濟電廠，它是移動式的，每一次就去收這些風倒木樹枝，然後做成再生能源，希望可以作為一些備用的能源，也能夠發電，可是他們就遇到很多的困難。","我曾經在10月30日問過經濟部部長，因為你們推動的再生能源發電設備設置管理辦法，上面竟然寫死了，說是定置型，所以一旦碰到這種移動型就沒有辦法獲得政府的補助；又或者我們有原住民地區參與再生能源設置示範獎勵辦法，但是竟然沒有什麼誘因，為了獲得1,000萬的補助，他必須要花4,000萬自己去買設備，所以沒有一個鄉公所做得到。我們也鼓勵合作社、地方協會參與，但是總裝置容量要10瓩以上等等，都發現窒礙難行，妙的是我在11月11號得到的回復說窒礙難行，所以我11月20號又開了協調會。總而言之，我是想要請教一下，既然設置了這些獎勵鼓勵的辦法，未見這些年有任何一個地方的鄉鎮公所、原鄉的或者是合作社能夠參與，就表示辦法很有問題，反而是要那些民間企業來投入的，像紅葉的地熱谷才有辦法，那就表示根本不適用地方。所以我覺得經濟部是不是應該針對這些辦法好好修正，放寬獎勵標準，更友善，是不是可以在一週內提出修正？"],["吳副署長志偉：跟委員報告一下，剛剛委員講的那個移動式應該是粒料的部分，因為發電設備有分成實際發電的，因為它要跟台電連在一起，那個一定要是固定的，因為它要確定連上去的設備是什麼，但是委員說的移動的部分是因為粒料的部分，那個我們有特別的規定。至於委員說的原住民的設置獎勵辦法，我們會再檢討，但是請委員多給我們一點時間，因為這裡面涉及很多利害關係人，我們現在正在檢討當中，以上跟委員報告。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，我剛剛提到三種辦法、法規。董事長，請。"],["曾董事長文生：跟委員報告，有關原鄉電網那一塊，我們現在一直都在調整，您剛才秀的照片，就是有很多電線在天上飛來飛去的……"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：是。"],["曾董事長文生：可能有一半都不會是台電的線，現在很多都是有線電視的cable線這些東西，台電的狀況會是這樣，在部落內我們現在其實是在推微電網，我知道委員一定清楚這個事。但因為要從山下這樣一路上去，中間受到影響的機會太高了，其實坦白講，部落停電有很多時候故障的都不是部落內部的線路，而是我們送到部落的大饋線斷掉，像您剛才舉的幾個例子，我們遇到復興等都是這種狀況，我們會儘量加快改善。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：對。"],["曾董事長文生：但我也跟委員報告，現在有些地方，我們很怕颱風來路斷，我們甚至都在路斷之前就已經先把人擺到部落裡面去準備修復。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：對。"],["曾董事長文生：這幾年我們其實做了很多改變，也讓復電速度變快。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：所以這種防災的電網很重要，斷訊、斷路……"],["曾董事長文生：我們現在是這樣子，因為關鍵是斷訊，斷訊的部分還要跟中華電信一起合作。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：是。"],["曾董事長文生：原則上我們希望能夠在部落找到一個公共地點來做，現在最快的方法就是光電板加儲能，然後再加上一些小型發電機，讓基本的供電能夠維持，這個我們儘快做。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，這個就是我接下來要講的，因為我們看到台電整個發電量配比，火力、再生能源幾乎就占了九成，然後這個當中，百分之五十都在燃料上面，所以它的成本造成你們的發電成本、購電成本不斷上升。我看到預算中心的數據，以你們火力發電的發電成本，109年1.7塊，現在都已經要3.5了，或者是像再生能源，108年1.5，現在都要2.58，在你們購入的電力，民營電廠可能以前兩塊多，現在都要四塊多；再生能源以前要三、四塊，現在都要五塊多，所以，我其實是要說導致你們說虧損連連嘛！然後說需要追加預算嘛！如果接下來國際燃料繼續上升的狀況下，我們的電價成本也是會繼續上升啊！那你們的對策到底是什麼？我們總不可能年年追加預算啊！因為時間的關係，我想這個等一下後面再一併回復。所以我想問台電，你們目前購買多少原鄉電力？你們有購買到原鄉電力嗎？"],["曾董事長文生：跟委員報告，因為原鄉大概都不會是發電……送上去比較多。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：是啊！因為台電的能源政策，像你們寫的設置太陽光電系統、風力機組等等，這種可能不適合我們部落的生態，我們需要的是小型電網、小型的發電系統，就像剛剛董事長所說的，所以我在這邊看到我們的獎勵不友善，部落很難追求、很難達到那個目標。我是希望應該要強化納入原住民族地區的防災需求，布建小型發電系統，然後擴大發電的效益，主要是電纜地下化，還有原鄉的發電，我希望要把它視為重要，納入整體的規劃，列為重要的政策，董事長，可以嗎？"],["曾董事長文生：委員，細節部分我們再跟您公室討論好不好？"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好。"],["曾董事長文生：有一大堆不同的樣態……"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：是，像你們進來做發電，常常有很多糾紛，像是萬里水力發電廠就花了很多時間在處理關係部落的認定……"],["主席：好，謝謝。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：這個是耗時耗力、耗心力，又或者像過去台電有很多用我們原住民私人的土地，可是因為當時我們還沒有所有權，結果引起很多糾紛，因為你們會還給鄉公所，然後導致這些私有土地的地主，我們現在已經有權利回復辦法，結果還要搞到法院。"],["主席：謝謝麗華委員的質詢。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：所以我希望你們可以針對你們的土地全盤檢討，我們再到辦公室一起討論，這樣可以嗎？"],["主席：好，謝謝。"],["曾董事長文生：好。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：謝謝董事長，謝謝主席。"],["主席：接著我們請羅明才委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":96,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-2-20,19-1","speakers":["賴惠員","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","賴瑞隆","顏寬恒","鄭正鈐","張啓楷","陳玉珍","陳亭妃","黃珊珊","李坤城","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","王鴻薇","蔡易餘","楊瓊瓔","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","羅明才","邱志偉","葉元之","牛煦庭","洪孟楷","黃國昌","邱議瑩","王世堅","陳超明"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-27"],"gazette_id":"11310701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310701_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政、經濟委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算追加預算案","agenda_id":"11310701_00001"}}}