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\"主\", \"start\": 373.782, \"end\": 374.102, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"觀\"}, {\"word\": \"判\", \"start\": 374.102, \"end\": 374.243, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"斷\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 374.243, \"end\": 374.263, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,947 --> 00:00:22,202\n請陳部長部長午安部長我覺得是要提一個東西就是有關宜蘭鐵路高架化的部分因為我覺得中央還是欠宜蘭的一個公道\n\n2\n00:00:23,234 --> 00:00:27,175\nbicy、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n\n3\n00:00:46,869 --> 00:00:47,490\n：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單\n\n4\n00:00:58,886 --> 00:01:03,548\n公路局及所屬單公路局及所屬單公路局及所屬單公路局及所屬單公路局及所屬單\n\n5\n00:01:27,517 --> 00:01:28,379\n預算案附屬單位預算\n\n6\n00:01:33,435 --> 00:01:57,622\n雖然說之前有人說可以把它降到53.87億但是這個是為了某些特定因素那後來也沒有後續那蔡英文之前在某一次也曾經提過說會做一些補助但是後來也不了了之所以我想請問一下這個宜蘭鐵路高價化這有沒有辦法得到中央的全額的補助\n\n7\n00:01:59,302 --> 00:02:20,996\n報告委員我們其實跟每一個縣市之間的這個預算跟補助金額的分配其實都有一定的公式跟機制啦那不管是哪一個縣市其實那個機制都是一樣的那我知道有些地方他的財政狀況比較沒有那麼好我們在那個機制裡面其實也有把這個財政的狀況放進去這個也都會討論那另外就是說\n\n8\n00:02:21,556 --> 00:02:42,885\n如果委員要特別提出這個的話其實在行政院他可以做一個專案協商的動作那到時候可能要請地方政府來提出來然後請行政院這邊來做專案協商部長你在10月16號有跟黃國昌說這可以做專案協調啦那一段我有看到是這個部分是要到行政院去做專案協商專案協調\n\n9\n00:02:44,546 --> 00:03:08,769\n可是部長你是從台中來的嘛那你也很清楚啊之前台中的台中都會區鐵路高架捷運化計畫其實他是由中央全部補助欸那為什麼台中可以那其他地方不行那你一定很清楚嘛當時有他的歷史背景因為當時答應台中的是地下化那地下化因為經費非常的龐大所以後來改高架化\n\n10\n00:03:09,309 --> 00:03:37,584\n那因為地下化改高價化的過程當中中央負擔的金額其實是差不多的但結論就是讓地方就不需要去負擔所以那個計畫是有變更過是從地下化改成高價化但是我覺得這個在其他縣市來看就覺得說你中央執政跟台中市是同一個政黨那你就全額補助那其他地方跟中央不同政黨就一拖再拖那個時間是胡志強市長擔任市長的過程當中所以跟政黨沒有關係\n\n11\n00:03:38,484 --> 00:04:06,751\n沒有啊可是地方看到的就是臺中他就是全額嘛那為什麼地方上面你還要他那麼多的自己要自籌呢?報告委員我剛有解釋過那個歷史背景本來是從地下改成這個高價那那個經費是有減省但是當時跟臺中市政府的協商就是因為要改高價所以跟地方政府協商說那是不是中央原本出的錢不會比較多反而比較少那由中央來全額負擔\n\n12\n00:04:09,043 --> 00:04:11,465\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n\n13\n00:04:27,734 --> 00:04:52,747\n民進黨籍的候選人沒選上就不了了之了,到現在也都沒有任何的下文。那這樣你剛剛講的嘛,台中因為從地下,鐵路地下化,那變成高架,所以不需要他再由地方負擔。那蔡英文又說之前她都有背書過啊,這300億她要背書啊,那是不是這個期望那麼大跟台中一樣期望大就有落空,那是不是可以用這個\n\n14\n00:04:54,167 --> 00:05:12,441\n邏輯去推那是不是宜蘭就不用付那中央趕快幫忙負擔全額。包委我看這個案子到最後結論應該中央負擔超過300億應該有。應該有超過300億所以這個部分是有做到不是沒有做到。不知道我們看是沒看到現在什麼都沒有看到。\n\n15\n00:05:13,061 --> 00:05:16,622\n五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單五、審查114年度\n\n16\n00:05:43,226 --> 00:06:09,861\n你支持嗎?就是說我們專案協商然後盡量給宜蘭更多的幫助。我們交通部都會協助。交通部都會協助大家。好,那就等部長這一句話了。那也是麻煩部長說不要讓宜蘭的人或是大家覺得說為什麼中央跟對各地的發展其實是大小眼。我以前在新北市我就很有感覺。就在新北市工作的時候我覺得中央對於地方的發展的\n\n17\n00:06:11,038 --> 00:06:14,263\n的是有大小眼存在。這是我自己個人的主觀判斷。謝謝部長。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4947\t22202\t請陳部長部長午安部長我覺得是要提一個東西就是有關宜蘭鐵路高架化的部分因為我覺得中央還是欠宜蘭的一個公道\n23234\t27175\tbicy、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n46869\t47490\t：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單\n58886\t63548\t公路局及所屬單公路局及所屬單公路局及所屬單公路局及所屬單公路局及所屬單\n87517\t88379\t預算案附屬單位預算\n93435\t117622\t雖然說之前有人說可以把它降到53.87億但是這個是為了某些特定因素那後來也沒有後續那蔡英文之前在某一次也曾經提過說會做一些補助但是後來也不了了之所以我想請問一下這個宜蘭鐵路高價化這有沒有辦法得到中央的全額的補助\n119302\t140996\t報告委員我們其實跟每一個縣市之間的這個預算跟補助金額的分配其實都有一定的公式跟機制啦那不管是哪一個縣市其實那個機制都是一樣的那我知道有些地方他的財政狀況比較沒有那麼好我們在那個機制裡面其實也有把這個財政的狀況放進去這個也都會討論那另外就是說\n141556\t162885\t如果委員要特別提出這個的話其實在行政院他可以做一個專案協商的動作那到時候可能要請地方政府來提出來然後請行政院這邊來做專案協商部長你在10月16號有跟黃國昌說這可以做專案協調啦那一段我有看到是這個部分是要到行政院去做專案協商專案協調\n164546\t188769\t可是部長你是從台中來的嘛那你也很清楚啊之前台中的台中都會區鐵路高架捷運化計畫其實他是由中央全部補助欸那為什麼台中可以那其他地方不行那你一定很清楚嘛當時有他的歷史背景因為當時答應台中的是地下化那地下化因為經費非常的龐大所以後來改高架化\n189309\t217584\t那因為地下化改高價化的過程當中中央負擔的金額其實是差不多的但結論就是讓地方就不需要去負擔所以那個計畫是有變更過是從地下化改成高價化但是我覺得這個在其他縣市來看就覺得說你中央執政跟台中市是同一個政黨那你就全額補助那其他地方跟中央不同政黨就一拖再拖那個時間是胡志強市長擔任市長的過程當中所以跟政黨沒有關係\n218484\t246751\t沒有啊可是地方看到的就是臺中他就是全額嘛那為什麼地方上面你還要他那麼多的自己要自籌呢?報告委員我剛有解釋過那個歷史背景本來是從地下改成這個高價那那個經費是有減省但是當時跟臺中市政府的協商就是因為要改高價所以跟地方政府協商說那是不是中央原本出的錢不會比較多反而比較少那由中央來全額負擔\n249043\t251465\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n267734\t292747\t民進黨籍的候選人沒選上就不了了之了,到現在也都沒有任何的下文。那這樣你剛剛講的嘛,台中因為從地下,鐵路地下化,那變成高架,所以不需要他再由地方負擔。那蔡英文又說之前她都有背書過啊,這300億她要背書啊,那是不是這個期望那麼大跟台中一樣期望大就有落空,那是不是可以用這個\n294167\t312441\t邏輯去推那是不是宜蘭就不用付那中央趕快幫忙負擔全額。包委我看這個案子到最後結論應該中央負擔超過300億應該有。應該有超過300億所以這個部分是有做到不是沒有做到。不知道我們看是沒看到現在什麼都沒有看到。\n313061\t316622\t五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單五、審查114年度\n343226\t369861\t你支持嗎?就是說我們專案協商然後盡量給宜蘭更多的幫助。我們交通部都會協助。交通部都會協助大家。好,那就等部長這一句話了。那也是麻煩部長說不要讓宜蘭的人或是大家覺得說為什麼中央跟對各地的發展其實是大小眼。我以前在新北市我就很有感覺。就在新北市工作的時候我覺得中央對於地方的發展的\n371038\t374263\t的是有大小眼存在。這是我自己個人的主觀判斷。謝謝部長。\n","txt":"請陳部長部長午安部長我覺得是要提一個東西就是有關宜蘭鐵路高架化的部分因為我覺得中央還是欠宜蘭的一個公道\nbicy、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單\n公路局及所屬單公路局及所屬單公路局及所屬單公路局及所屬單公路局及所屬單\n預算案附屬單位預算\n雖然說之前有人說可以把它降到53.87億但是這個是為了某些特定因素那後來也沒有後續那蔡英文之前在某一次也曾經提過說會做一些補助但是後來也不了了之所以我想請問一下這個宜蘭鐵路高價化這有沒有辦法得到中央的全額的補助\n報告委員我們其實跟每一個縣市之間的這個預算跟補助金額的分配其實都有一定的公式跟機制啦那不管是哪一個縣市其實那個機制都是一樣的那我知道有些地方他的財政狀況比較沒有那麼好我們在那個機制裡面其實也有把這個財政的狀況放進去這個也都會討論那另外就是說\n如果委員要特別提出這個的話其實在行政院他可以做一個專案協商的動作那到時候可能要請地方政府來提出來然後請行政院這邊來做專案協商部長你在10月16號有跟黃國昌說這可以做專案協調啦那一段我有看到是這個部分是要到行政院去做專案協商專案協調\n可是部長你是從台中來的嘛那你也很清楚啊之前台中的台中都會區鐵路高架捷運化計畫其實他是由中央全部補助欸那為什麼台中可以那其他地方不行那你一定很清楚嘛當時有他的歷史背景因為當時答應台中的是地下化那地下化因為經費非常的龐大所以後來改高架化\n那因為地下化改高價化的過程當中中央負擔的金額其實是差不多的但結論就是讓地方就不需要去負擔所以那個計畫是有變更過是從地下化改成高價化但是我覺得這個在其他縣市來看就覺得說你中央執政跟台中市是同一個政黨那你就全額補助那其他地方跟中央不同政黨就一拖再拖那個時間是胡志強市長擔任市長的過程當中所以跟政黨沒有關係\n沒有啊可是地方看到的就是臺中他就是全額嘛那為什麼地方上面你還要他那麼多的自己要自籌呢?報告委員我剛有解釋過那個歷史背景本來是從地下改成這個高價那那個經費是有減省但是當時跟臺中市政府的協商就是因為要改高價所以跟地方政府協商說那是不是中央原本出的錢不會比較多反而比較少那由中央來全額負擔\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n民進黨籍的候選人沒選上就不了了之了,到現在也都沒有任何的下文。那這樣你剛剛講的嘛,台中因為從地下,鐵路地下化,那變成高架,所以不需要他再由地方負擔。那蔡英文又說之前她都有背書過啊,這300億她要背書啊,那是不是這個期望那麼大跟台中一樣期望大就有落空,那是不是可以用這個\n邏輯去推那是不是宜蘭就不用付那中央趕快幫忙負擔全額。包委我看這個案子到最後結論應該中央負擔超過300億應該有。應該有超過300億所以這個部分是有做到不是沒有做到。不知道我們看是沒看到現在什麼都沒有看到。\n五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單五、審查114年度\n你支持嗎?就是說我們專案協商然後盡量給宜蘭更多的幫助。我們交通部都會協助。交通部都會協助大家。好,那就等部長這一句話了。那也是麻煩部長說不要讓宜蘭的人或是大家覺得說為什麼中央跟對各地的發展其實是大小眼。我以前在新北市我就很有感覺。就在新北市工作的時候我覺得中央對於地方的發展的\n的是有大小眼存在。這是我自己個人的主觀判斷。謝謝部長。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.947 --> 00:22.202\n請陳部長部長午安部長我覺得是要提一個東西就是有關宜蘭鐵路高架化的部分因為我覺得中央還是欠宜蘭的一個公道\n\n00:23.234 --> 00:27.175\nbicy、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n\n00:46.869 --> 00:47.490\n：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單\n\n00:58.886 --> 01:03.548\n公路局及所屬單公路局及所屬單公路局及所屬單公路局及所屬單公路局及所屬單\n\n01:27.517 --> 01:28.379\n預算案附屬單位預算\n\n01:33.435 --> 01:57.622\n雖然說之前有人說可以把它降到53.87億但是這個是為了某些特定因素那後來也沒有後續那蔡英文之前在某一次也曾經提過說會做一些補助但是後來也不了了之所以我想請問一下這個宜蘭鐵路高價化這有沒有辦法得到中央的全額的補助\n\n01:59.302 --> 02:20.996\n報告委員我們其實跟每一個縣市之間的這個預算跟補助金額的分配其實都有一定的公式跟機制啦那不管是哪一個縣市其實那個機制都是一樣的那我知道有些地方他的財政狀況比較沒有那麼好我們在那個機制裡面其實也有把這個財政的狀況放進去這個也都會討論那另外就是說\n\n02:21.556 --> 02:42.885\n如果委員要特別提出這個的話其實在行政院他可以做一個專案協商的動作那到時候可能要請地方政府來提出來然後請行政院這邊來做專案協商部長你在10月16號有跟黃國昌說這可以做專案協調啦那一段我有看到是這個部分是要到行政院去做專案協商專案協調\n\n02:44.546 --> 03:08.769\n可是部長你是從台中來的嘛那你也很清楚啊之前台中的台中都會區鐵路高架捷運化計畫其實他是由中央全部補助欸那為什麼台中可以那其他地方不行那你一定很清楚嘛當時有他的歷史背景因為當時答應台中的是地下化那地下化因為經費非常的龐大所以後來改高架化\n\n03:09.309 --> 03:37.584\n那因為地下化改高價化的過程當中中央負擔的金額其實是差不多的但結論就是讓地方就不需要去負擔所以那個計畫是有變更過是從地下化改成高價化但是我覺得這個在其他縣市來看就覺得說你中央執政跟台中市是同一個政黨那你就全額補助那其他地方跟中央不同政黨就一拖再拖那個時間是胡志強市長擔任市長的過程當中所以跟政黨沒有關係\n\n03:38.484 --> 04:06.751\n沒有啊可是地方看到的就是臺中他就是全額嘛那為什麼地方上面你還要他那麼多的自己要自籌呢?報告委員我剛有解釋過那個歷史背景本來是從地下改成這個高價那那個經費是有減省但是當時跟臺中市政府的協商就是因為要改高價所以跟地方政府協商說那是不是中央原本出的錢不會比較多反而比較少那由中央來全額負擔\n\n04:09.043 --> 04:11.465\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n\n04:27.734 --> 04:52.747\n民進黨籍的候選人沒選上就不了了之了,到現在也都沒有任何的下文。那這樣你剛剛講的嘛,台中因為從地下,鐵路地下化,那變成高架,所以不需要他再由地方負擔。那蔡英文又說之前她都有背書過啊,這300億她要背書啊,那是不是這個期望那麼大跟台中一樣期望大就有落空,那是不是可以用這個\n\n04:54.167 --> 05:12.441\n邏輯去推那是不是宜蘭就不用付那中央趕快幫忙負擔全額。包委我看這個案子到最後結論應該中央負擔超過300億應該有。應該有超過300億所以這個部分是有做到不是沒有做到。不知道我們看是沒看到現在什麼都沒有看到。\n\n05:13.061 --> 05:16.622\n五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單五、審查114年度\n\n05:43.226 --> 06:09.861\n你支持嗎?就是說我們專案協商然後盡量給宜蘭更多的幫助。我們交通部都會協助。交通部都會協助大家。好,那就等部長這一句話了。那也是麻煩部長說不要讓宜蘭的人或是大家覺得說為什麼中央跟對各地的發展其實是大小眼。我以前在新北市我就很有感覺。就在新北市工作的時候我覺得中央對於地方的發展的\n\n06:11.038 --> 06:14.263\n的是有大小眼存在。這是我自己個人的主觀判斷。謝謝部長。\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.947,"end":22.202,"text":"請陳部長部長午安部長我覺得是要提一個東西就是有關宜蘭鐵路高架化的部分因為我覺得中央還是欠宜蘭的一個公道"},{"start":23.234,"end":27.175,"text":" bicy、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":46.869,"end":47.49,"text":"：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單"},{"start":58.886,"end":63.548,"text":"公路局及所屬單公路局及所屬單公路局及所屬單公路局及所屬單公路局及所屬單"},{"start":87.517,"end":88.379,"text":"預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":93.435,"end":117.622,"text":"雖然說之前有人說可以把它降到53.87億但是這個是為了某些特定因素那後來也沒有後續那蔡英文之前在某一次也曾經提過說會做一些補助但是後來也不了了之所以我想請問一下這個宜蘭鐵路高價化這有沒有辦法得到中央的全額的補助"},{"start":119.302,"end":140.996,"text":"報告委員我們其實跟每一個縣市之間的這個預算跟補助金額的分配其實都有一定的公式跟機制啦那不管是哪一個縣市其實那個機制都是一樣的那我知道有些地方他的財政狀況比較沒有那麼好我們在那個機制裡面其實也有把這個財政的狀況放進去這個也都會討論那另外就是說"},{"start":141.556,"end":162.885,"text":"如果委員要特別提出這個的話其實在行政院他可以做一個專案協商的動作那到時候可能要請地方政府來提出來然後請行政院這邊來做專案協商部長你在10月16號有跟黃國昌說這可以做專案協調啦那一段我有看到是這個部分是要到行政院去做專案協商專案協調"},{"start":164.546,"end":188.769,"text":"可是部長你是從台中來的嘛那你也很清楚啊之前台中的台中都會區鐵路高架捷運化計畫其實他是由中央全部補助欸那為什麼台中可以那其他地方不行那你一定很清楚嘛當時有他的歷史背景因為當時答應台中的是地下化那地下化因為經費非常的龐大所以後來改高架化"},{"start":189.309,"end":217.584,"text":"那因為地下化改高價化的過程當中中央負擔的金額其實是差不多的但結論就是讓地方就不需要去負擔所以那個計畫是有變更過是從地下化改成高價化但是我覺得這個在其他縣市來看就覺得說你中央執政跟台中市是同一個政黨那你就全額補助那其他地方跟中央不同政黨就一拖再拖那個時間是胡志強市長擔任市長的過程當中所以跟政黨沒有關係"},{"start":218.484,"end":246.751,"text":"沒有啊可是地方看到的就是臺中他就是全額嘛那為什麼地方上面你還要他那麼多的自己要自籌呢?報告委員我剛有解釋過那個歷史背景本來是從地下改成這個高價那那個經費是有減省但是當時跟臺中市政府的協商就是因為要改高價所以跟地方政府協商說那是不是中央原本出的錢不會比較多反而比較少那由中央來全額負擔"},{"start":249.043,"end":251.465,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":267.734,"end":292.747,"text":"民進黨籍的候選人沒選上就不了了之了,到現在也都沒有任何的下文。那這樣你剛剛講的嘛,台中因為從地下,鐵路地下化,那變成高架,所以不需要他再由地方負擔。那蔡英文又說之前她都有背書過啊,這300億她要背書啊,那是不是這個期望那麼大跟台中一樣期望大就有落空,那是不是可以用這個"},{"start":294.167,"end":312.441,"text":"邏輯去推那是不是宜蘭就不用付那中央趕快幫忙負擔全額。包委我看這個案子到最後結論應該中央負擔超過300億應該有。應該有超過300億所以這個部分是有做到不是沒有做到。不知道我們看是沒看到現在什麼都沒有看到。"},{"start":313.061,"end":316.622,"text":"五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單五、審查114年度"},{"start":343.226,"end":369.861,"text":"你支持嗎?就是說我們專案協商然後盡量給宜蘭更多的幫助。我們交通部都會協助。交通部都會協助大家。好,那就等部長這一句話了。那也是麻煩部長說不要讓宜蘭的人或是大家覺得說為什麼中央跟對各地的發展其實是大小眼。我以前在新北市我就很有感覺。就在新北市工作的時候我覺得中央對於地方的發展的"},{"start":371.038,"end":374.263,"text":"的是有大小眼存在。這是我自己個人的主觀判斷。謝謝部長。"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":884,"blocks":[["吳委員宗憲：（12時32分）謝謝，麻煩部長。"],["主席：請陳部長。"],["吳委員宗憲：部長午安。"],["陳部長世凱：委員好。"],["吳委員宗憲：部長，我這邊要提一個東西，就是有關宜蘭鐵路高架化的部分，因為我覺得中央還是欠宜蘭人一個公道，之前其實在1993年的時候，宜蘭就一直在爭取，希望鐵路能夠高架，因為我們都知道，像在我小時候，臺北市路面是有鐵路在走的，這時候城市的使用會被割裂掉，自從臺北市的鐵路地下化之後，其實很多地方就等於是縫合了，就可以一連貫的使用，如果能夠讓鐵路採高架化的話，其實對宜蘭的地方發展是絕對有幫助的。","這段時間以來，早期原本行政院核定的是252.09億，地方分攤54.4億，因為這幾年物價一直上漲，到現在的評估，已經要到501.29億了，變成地方要分攤105億，這樣子其實會讓地方根本沒有辦法去負擔這個財源，以宜蘭來說好了，如果105.72億必須由地方分攤的話，它要7年的預算才有辦法做，但是你說7年什麼事都不做嗎？那也不可能，雖然之前有人說可以把它降到53.87億，但這個是為了某些特定因素，後來也沒有後續。蔡英文之前在某一次也曾經提過說會做一些補助，但是後來也不了了之。所以我想請問一下，宜蘭鐵路高架化有沒有辦法得到中央全額的補助？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，我們跟每個縣市之間的預算跟補助金額的分配，其實都有一定的公式跟機制，不管是哪一個縣市，其實那個機制都是一樣的，我知道有一些地方的財政狀況比較沒有那麼好，我們在那個機制裡面，其實也有把這個財政狀況放進去，這個也都會討論。另外，如果委員要特別提出這個的話，其實在行政院它可以做一個專案協商的動作，到時候可能就是請地方政府提出來，然後請行政院這邊來做專案協商。"],["吳委員宗憲：部長，你在10月16號有跟黃國昌說，這可以做專案協調，那一段我也有看到。"],["陳部長世凱：是，這個部分是要到行政院去做專案協商、專案協調。"],["吳委員宗憲：好。部長，你是從臺中來的，你也很清楚，之前臺中的臺中都會區鐵路高架捷運化計畫，其實是由中央全部補助，為什麼臺中可以，其他地方不行？因為你在臺中，所以你一定很清楚嘛！"],["陳部長世凱：當時有它的歷史背景啦！因為當時答應臺中的是地下化，因為地下化的經費非常龐大，所以後來改高架化，還有，在地下化改高架化的過程當中，中央負擔的金額其實是差不多的，但結論就是讓地方不需要去負擔，所以那個計畫有變更過，就是從地下化改成高架化。"],["吳委員宗憲：但是我覺得這個在其他縣市來看就會覺得，中央執政跟臺中市執政若是同一個政黨，你就全額補助，其他地方跟中央不同政黨，就是一拖再拖。"],["陳部長世凱：那個時間是胡志強市長擔任市長的過程當中，所以跟政黨沒有關係。"],["吳委員宗憲：沒有啊！可是地方看到的就是臺中全額補助，為什麼你還要地方有那麼多的比例是自己要自籌呢？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，我剛剛有解釋過那個歷史背景，本來是從地下改成高架，那個經費是有減省，但是當時跟臺中市政府的協商，即因為要改高架，所以跟地方政府協商，因為中央原本出的錢不會比較多反而比較少，所以由中央來全額負擔。"],["吳委員宗憲：好吧！2018年的時候，蔡英文當時為了搶救縣長選舉的選情，她確實也有說到一個部分，她承諾宜蘭鐵路高架化還有羅東優先段的300億，她要來背書，但是後來民進黨籍候選人沒選上縣長就不了了之了，到現在也都沒有任何的下文。你剛剛講的，臺中的鐵路因為從地下化變成高架，所以不需要再由地方負擔；蔡英文又說，之前她都有背書過啊！這300億她要背書啊！是不是跟臺中一樣，期望大就有落空，是不是可以用這個邏輯去推論宜蘭就不用負擔，而是中央趕快幫忙負擔全額？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，我看這個案子到最後結論應該是中央負擔有超過300億，所以這個部分是有做到而不是沒有做到。"],["吳委員宗憲：不知道啊！我們現在什麼都沒有看到啊！"],["陳部長世凱：不會沒有看到……"],["吳委員宗憲：我們還是要看到結論，結論要出來啊！"],["陳部長世凱：總經費是501億，我們目前正在審，地方大概負擔105億，也就是說中央負擔差不多三、四百億左右。另外，專案協商其實可以由地方政府提出，到時候由行政院來做專案協商。"],["吳委員宗憲：所以如果地方政府有提出來，你們這邊會積極地幫忙協助它趕快完成嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：就是到行政院去做專案協商，這個沒有……"],["吳委員宗憲：部長會支持嗎？就是我們的專案協商，然後會儘量給宜蘭更多的幫助。"],["陳部長世凱：交通部的部分，我們交通部都會協助大家。"],["吳委員宗憲：好，就等部長這一句話了，也麻煩部長，不要讓宜蘭的人或是讓大家覺得，為什麼中央跟對各地的發展其實是大小眼，以前在新北市我就很有感覺，我在新北市工作的時候，覺得中央對於地方的發展是有大小眼存在，這是我自己個人的主觀判斷啦！謝謝部長。"],["陳部長世凱：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝吳宗憲委員。接下來邀請楊瓊瓔委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":390,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-11","speakers":["陳素月","林沛祥","林俊憲","林國成","許智傑","何欣純","黃健豪","廖先翔","游顥","徐富癸","蔡其昌","邱若華","魯明哲","陳培瑜","黃國昌","麥玉珍","李昆澤","吳宗憲","楊瓊瓔","涂權吉","葉元之","陳雪生","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","洪孟楷","陳冠廷","林月琴","陳俊宇","林倩綺","王鴻薇","羅智強","張雅琳"],"page_start":309,"meetingDate":["2024-11-27"],"gazette_id":"11310501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310501_00011"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部單位預算；二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關\n於交通部中央氣象署單位預算；三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部公路局及所屬單\n位預算；四、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於交通部主管交通作業\n基金─國道公路建設管理基金分預算（僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11310501_00013"}}}