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{\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 244.419, \"end\": 245.1, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 245.1, \"end\": 245.28, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"考\", \"start\": 245.28, \"end\": 245.56, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"慮\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 245.56, \"end\": 245.7, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 245.7, \"end\": 245.72, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 245.72, \"end\": 245.881, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"改\", \"start\": 245.881, \"end\": 245.981, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"善\", \"start\": 245.981, \"end\": 246.121, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 246.121, \"end\": 246.461, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"幅\", \"start\": 246.461, \"end\": 246.641, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 246.641, \"end\": 247.062, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 247.062, \"end\": 247.182, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 247.182, \"end\": 247.282, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 247.282, \"end\": 247.942, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"考\", \"start\": 247.942, \"end\": 248.022, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"慮\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 248.022, \"end\": 248.042, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"燕\", \"start\": 248.042, \"end\": 248.163, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"姿\", \"start\": 248.163, \"end\": 248.243, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 248.243, \"end\": 248.263, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 248.263, \"end\": 248.283, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"著\", \"start\": 248.283, \"end\": 248.343, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"劉\"}, {\"word\": \"勛\"}, {\"word\": \"廷\", \"start\": 248.343, \"end\": 248.383, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 248.383, \"end\": 248.403, \"score\": 0.484}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"諮\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,476 --> 00:00:20,040\n好請台電董事長鄭文森董事長喂好董事長好那個董事長你提到說如果立法院沒有給你這兩千萬的撥補兩千億的撥補的話可能會讓台電破產嘛對不對你是不是早上有這樣講\n\n2\n00:00:24,949 --> 00:00:53,341\n我沒有這樣講我說財務的狀況會持續惡化因為委員問我會不會破產我一直沒有這樣講所以你不是這樣子講因為其實現在台電在資產裡面還有一項我覺得大家有一點鴕鳥心態就是核四因為現在核四兩千多億還是列在台電資產裡面但你現在核四就是沒有要重啟沒有要使用了所以這個資產有跟沒有好像差異不大不然你核四現在要怎麼處理\n\n3\n00:00:55,173 --> 00:00:56,274\n這2000多億的資產你要怎麼處理?\n\n4\n00:01:15,270 --> 00:01:39,300\n應該要這樣子講,就是說他後段就是他剩下的如果沒有辦法發揮其他作用的部分,他就會進到是不是在會計上面要認定。認列的方式也有很多種財務上的做法。比方說德國當年在要求他的核電廠停下來的時候,他有設計一些做法。那這些相關的做法我們可能都還要再跟那個相關的單位做討論了。\n\n5\n00:01:42,441 --> 00:01:44,964\n我會想說為什麼你們好意思列因為你們現在就是沒有要用核四了嘛\n\n6\n00:02:03,313 --> 00:02:29,118\n他一直就是擺在那個地方對他擺在那裡但是沒有要用嘛那你原本新建你會預估到他未來的回收嘛就是他發電然後他怎麼營運然後如何如何你現在沒有要用所以你即便把他列為2800多億在那邊可是他實際上是沒有辦法幫台電獲利嘛所以我覺得你要面對現實啦不要好像都一直駝鳥心態那另外我想跟你請教一下\n\n7\n00:02:29,818 --> 00:02:47,564\n因為這個國智慧部長講阿他說這兩千億阿撥補到即便是撥補到台電不能確保台電一定不會漲電價那我記得好像您也有講過一樣的話就是說兩千億撥補進去不見得一定不會漲未來不見得不會漲電價等一下委員你剛才講國部長講的話對\n\n8\n00:02:51,405 --> 00:03:13,441\n我不知道他是什麼時候講的今天早上他並不是這樣講我跟你講他怎麼講他講說兩千億波普進去他說他不能夠保證說兩千億波普進去之後一定不會漲電價他的說法是如果有漲電價的話他下台他是這樣子所以如果有漲電價的話他就下台但是他不能保證說一定不會漲電價\n\n9\n00:03:14,704 --> 00:03:30,648\n但是我要講的是說其實我們並不關心他下不下台啊我們關心的是台電每次一直叫大家撥補撥補撥補然後不去考慮營運的改善或者是降低發電成本結果最後郭部長走了其實台灣人沒什麼人在乎他走不走啊\n\n10\n00:03:31,188 --> 00:03:58,495\n臺灣在乎的是電價會不會無止境地上漲所以你應該要保證你這一次跟立法院要這2000億那未來是多久不會漲電價你可以控制一定的營運能力可以讓臺電的公司的體質恢復到比較良好這個是我們國人想要知道的這才比較重要我不知道您您的立場或者是您能做出怎樣的保證我要跟委員說明一個事情第一個就是電價就不是臺電決定我想這個您很清楚但是臺電營運好一點的話\n\n11\n00:04:00,996 --> 00:04:08,403\n我剛才有在答詢的時候不斷地強調一點就是說電價審議委員會都會把這個補貼如果進來以後整個台電的財務狀況來做總體的考慮那如果改善的幅度就讓他作為考慮好謝謝謝謝燕姿委員接著劉勛廷委員諮詢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3476\t20040\t好請台電董事長鄭文森董事長喂好董事長好那個董事長你提到說如果立法院沒有給你這兩千萬的撥補兩千億的撥補的話可能會讓台電破產嘛對不對你是不是早上有這樣講\n24949\t53341\t我沒有這樣講 我說財務的狀況會持續惡化因為委員問我會不會破產 我一直沒有這樣講所以你不是這樣子講因為其實現在台電在資產裡面還有一項我覺得大家有一點鴕鳥心態就是核四因為現在核四兩千多億還是列在台電資產裡面但你現在核四就是沒有要重啟沒有要使用了所以這個資產有跟沒有好像差異不大不然你核四現在要怎麼處理\n55173\t56274\t這2000多億的資產你要怎麼處理?\n75270\t99300\t應該要這樣子講,就是說他後段就是他剩下的如果沒有辦法發揮其他作用的部分,他就會進到是不是在會計上面要認定。認列的方式也有很多種財務上的做法。比方說德國當年在要求他的核電廠停下來的時候,他有設計一些做法。那這些相關的做法我們可能都還要再跟那個相關的單位做討論了。\n102441\t104964\t我會想說為什麼你們好意思列因為你們現在就是沒有要用核四了嘛\n123313\t149118\t他一直就是擺在那個地方對他擺在那裡但是沒有要用嘛那你原本新建你會預估到他未來的回收嘛就是他發電然後他怎麼營運然後如何如何你現在沒有要用所以你即便把他列為2800多億在那邊可是他實際上是沒有辦法幫台電獲利嘛所以我覺得你要面對現實啦不要好像都一直駝鳥心態那另外我想跟你請教一下\n149818\t167564\t因為這個國智慧部長講阿他說這兩千億阿撥補到即便是撥補到台電不能確保台電一定不會漲電價那我記得好像您也有講過一樣的話就是說兩千億撥補進去不見得一定不會漲未來不見得不會漲電價等一下委員你剛才講國部長講的話對\n171405\t193441\t我不知道他是什麼時候講的今天早上他並不是這樣講我跟你講他怎麼講他講說兩千億波普進去他說他不能夠保證說兩千億波普進去之後一定不會漲電價他的說法是如果有漲電價的話他下台他是這樣子所以如果有漲電價的話他就下台但是他不能保證說一定不會漲電價\n194704\t210648\t但是我要講的是說其實我們並不關心他下不下台啊我們關心的是台電每次一直叫大家撥補撥補撥補然後不去考慮營運的改善或者是降低發電成本結果最後郭部長走了其實台灣人沒什麼人在乎他走不走啊\n211188\t238495\t臺灣在乎的是電價會不會無止境地上漲所以你應該要保證你這一次跟立法院要這2000億那未來是多久不會漲電價你可以控制一定的營運能力可以讓臺電的公司的體質恢復到比較良好這個是我們國人想要知道的這才比較重要我不知道您您的立場或者是您能做出怎樣的保證我要跟委員說明一個事情第一個就是電價就不是臺電決定我想這個您很清楚但是臺電營運好一點的話\n240996\t248403\t我剛才有在答詢的時候不斷地強調一點就是說電價審議委員會都會把這個補貼如果進來以後整個台電的財務狀況來做總體的考慮那如果改善的幅度就讓他作為考慮好 謝謝謝謝燕姿委員接著劉勛廷委員諮詢\n","txt":"好請台電董事長鄭文森董事長喂好董事長好那個董事長你提到說如果立法院沒有給你這兩千萬的撥補兩千億的撥補的話可能會讓台電破產嘛對不對你是不是早上有這樣講\n我沒有這樣講 我說財務的狀況會持續惡化因為委員問我會不會破產 我一直沒有這樣講所以你不是這樣子講因為其實現在台電在資產裡面還有一項我覺得大家有一點鴕鳥心態就是核四因為現在核四兩千多億還是列在台電資產裡面但你現在核四就是沒有要重啟沒有要使用了所以這個資產有跟沒有好像差異不大不然你核四現在要怎麼處理\n這2000多億的資產你要怎麼處理?\n應該要這樣子講,就是說他後段就是他剩下的如果沒有辦法發揮其他作用的部分,他就會進到是不是在會計上面要認定。認列的方式也有很多種財務上的做法。比方說德國當年在要求他的核電廠停下來的時候,他有設計一些做法。那這些相關的做法我們可能都還要再跟那個相關的單位做討論了。\n我會想說為什麼你們好意思列因為你們現在就是沒有要用核四了嘛\n他一直就是擺在那個地方對他擺在那裡但是沒有要用嘛那你原本新建你會預估到他未來的回收嘛就是他發電然後他怎麼營運然後如何如何你現在沒有要用所以你即便把他列為2800多億在那邊可是他實際上是沒有辦法幫台電獲利嘛所以我覺得你要面對現實啦不要好像都一直駝鳥心態那另外我想跟你請教一下\n因為這個國智慧部長講阿他說這兩千億阿撥補到即便是撥補到台電不能確保台電一定不會漲電價那我記得好像您也有講過一樣的話就是說兩千億撥補進去不見得一定不會漲未來不見得不會漲電價等一下委員你剛才講國部長講的話對\n我不知道他是什麼時候講的今天早上他並不是這樣講我跟你講他怎麼講他講說兩千億波普進去他說他不能夠保證說兩千億波普進去之後一定不會漲電價他的說法是如果有漲電價的話他下台他是這樣子所以如果有漲電價的話他就下台但是他不能保證說一定不會漲電價\n但是我要講的是說其實我們並不關心他下不下台啊我們關心的是台電每次一直叫大家撥補撥補撥補然後不去考慮營運的改善或者是降低發電成本結果最後郭部長走了其實台灣人沒什麼人在乎他走不走啊\n臺灣在乎的是電價會不會無止境地上漲所以你應該要保證你這一次跟立法院要這2000億那未來是多久不會漲電價你可以控制一定的營運能力可以讓臺電的公司的體質恢復到比較良好這個是我們國人想要知道的這才比較重要我不知道您您的立場或者是您能做出怎樣的保證我要跟委員說明一個事情第一個就是電價就不是臺電決定我想這個您很清楚但是臺電營運好一點的話\n我剛才有在答詢的時候不斷地強調一點就是說電價審議委員會都會把這個補貼如果進來以後整個台電的財務狀況來做總體的考慮那如果改善的幅度就讓他作為考慮好 謝謝謝謝燕姿委員接著劉勛廷委員諮詢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.476 --> 00:20.040\n好請台電董事長鄭文森董事長喂好董事長好那個董事長你提到說如果立法院沒有給你這兩千萬的撥補兩千億的撥補的話可能會讓台電破產嘛對不對你是不是早上有這樣講\n\n00:24.949 --> 00:53.341\n我沒有這樣講我說財務的狀況會持續惡化因為委員問我會不會破產我一直沒有這樣講所以你不是這樣子講因為其實現在台電在資產裡面還有一項我覺得大家有一點鴕鳥心態就是核四因為現在核四兩千多億還是列在台電資產裡面但你現在核四就是沒有要重啟沒有要使用了所以這個資產有跟沒有好像差異不大不然你核四現在要怎麼處理\n\n00:55.173 --> 00:56.274\n這2000多億的資產你要怎麼處理?\n\n01:15.270 --> 01:39.300\n應該要這樣子講,就是說他後段就是他剩下的如果沒有辦法發揮其他作用的部分,他就會進到是不是在會計上面要認定。認列的方式也有很多種財務上的做法。比方說德國當年在要求他的核電廠停下來的時候,他有設計一些做法。那這些相關的做法我們可能都還要再跟那個相關的單位做討論了。\n\n01:42.441 --> 01:44.964\n我會想說為什麼你們好意思列因為你們現在就是沒有要用核四了嘛\n\n02:03.313 --> 02:29.118\n他一直就是擺在那個地方對他擺在那裡但是沒有要用嘛那你原本新建你會預估到他未來的回收嘛就是他發電然後他怎麼營運然後如何如何你現在沒有要用所以你即便把他列為2800多億在那邊可是他實際上是沒有辦法幫台電獲利嘛所以我覺得你要面對現實啦不要好像都一直駝鳥心態那另外我想跟你請教一下\n\n02:29.818 --> 02:47.564\n因為這個國智慧部長講阿他說這兩千億阿撥補到即便是撥補到台電不能確保台電一定不會漲電價那我記得好像您也有講過一樣的話就是說兩千億撥補進去不見得一定不會漲未來不見得不會漲電價等一下委員你剛才講國部長講的話對\n\n02:51.405 --> 03:13.441\n我不知道他是什麼時候講的今天早上他並不是這樣講我跟你講他怎麼講他講說兩千億波普進去他說他不能夠保證說兩千億波普進去之後一定不會漲電價他的說法是如果有漲電價的話他下台他是這樣子所以如果有漲電價的話他就下台但是他不能保證說一定不會漲電價\n\n03:14.704 --> 03:30.648\n但是我要講的是說其實我們並不關心他下不下台啊我們關心的是台電每次一直叫大家撥補撥補撥補然後不去考慮營運的改善或者是降低發電成本結果最後郭部長走了其實台灣人沒什麼人在乎他走不走啊\n\n03:31.188 --> 03:58.495\n臺灣在乎的是電價會不會無止境地上漲所以你應該要保證你這一次跟立法院要這2000億那未來是多久不會漲電價你可以控制一定的營運能力可以讓臺電的公司的體質恢復到比較良好這個是我們國人想要知道的這才比較重要我不知道您您的立場或者是您能做出怎樣的保證我要跟委員說明一個事情第一個就是電價就不是臺電決定我想這個您很清楚但是臺電營運好一點的話\n\n04:00.996 --> 04:08.403\n我剛才有在答詢的時候不斷地強調一點就是說電價審議委員會都會把這個補貼如果進來以後整個台電的財務狀況來做總體的考慮那如果改善的幅度就讓他作為考慮好謝謝謝謝燕姿委員接著劉勛廷委員諮詢\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.476,"end":20.04,"text":"好請台電董事長鄭文森董事長喂好董事長好那個董事長你提到說如果立法院沒有給你這兩千萬的撥補兩千億的撥補的話可能會讓台電破產嘛對不對你是不是早上有這樣講"},{"start":24.949,"end":53.341,"text":"我沒有這樣講 我說財務的狀況會持續惡化因為委員問我會不會破產 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謝謝謝謝燕姿委員接著劉勛廷委員諮詢"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1043,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（13時25分）麻煩請台電。"],["主席：請台電曾文生董事長。"],["曾董事長文生：委員好。"],["葉委員元之：董事長好。董事長，你提到如果立法院沒有給你2,000億的撥補，可能就會讓台電破產，對不對？早上你是不是有這樣講？"],["曾董事長文生：我沒有這樣講，而是說財務狀況會持續惡化。"],["葉委員元之：持續惡化？"],["曾董事長文生：因為委員有問我會不會破產，但我一直沒有這樣講。"],["葉委員元之：所以你不是這樣講。其實在台電的資產中還有一項，我覺得大家有一點鴕鳥心態，就是核四的部分。因為核四的二千多億還是列在台電的資產中，但是現在核四沒有要重啟、沒有要使用，所以這個資產有或沒有好像差異不大啦！不然，現在核四要怎麼處理？二千多億的資產要怎麼處理？"],["曾董事長文生：現在這些資產能夠運用的就儘量拿來運用。"],["葉委員元之：你認為二千多億的資產運用完之後，大概實際上的資產是什麼？因為它現在已經無法讓你們發電，你要如何運用來保持它二千多億的價值？你要怎麼做？"],["曾董事長文生：應該要這樣講，如果它剩下的部分無法發揮其他作用，是不是就要在會計上認列。"],["葉委員元之：你什麼時候要開始進行……"],["曾董事長文生：認列的方式也有很多種財務上的作法，譬如德國當年要求它的核電廠停下來時就設計了一些作法，至於這些相關的作法，我們可能都還要再與相關單位討論，但是還沒有到這個程度。"],["葉委員元之：什麼時候要進行這個動作？"],["曾董事長文生：我們現在都在做讓資產能夠活化的規劃。"],["葉委員元之：大概嘛！因為我……"],["曾董事長文生：舉例來講……"],["葉委員元之：等一下，每次看到核四被你們列為二千八百多億的資產，我就在想為什麼你們好意思列啊！因為現在你們就是沒有要用核四了嘛！"],["曾董事長文生：委員，它一直就是擺在那個地方。"],["葉委員元之：對，它擺在那裡，但是沒有要用嘛！原本在興建時會預估到它未來的回收，包括發電、如何營運、如何如何，但是現在沒有要用，即便你將它列為二千八百多億在那邊，實際上它就沒辦法幫台電獲利嘛！我覺得你要面對現實，不要好像一直都是鴕鳥心態。","另外，我想向你請教一下，郭智輝部長說，即便2,000億撥補給台電也不能確保台電一定不會漲電價，我記得你好像也講過一樣的話，就是2,000億撥補進去，未來不見得不會漲電價。"],["曾董事長文生：等一下，委員，你剛剛說是郭部長講的話？"],["葉委員元之：對。"],["曾董事長文生：我不知道他是什麼時候講的，但是今天早上他並不是這樣講。"],["葉委員元之：我告訴你，他是怎麼講的，他說他不能夠保證2,000億撥補進去之後一定不會漲電價。他的說法是如果有漲電價的話，他就下台。因此，如果有漲電價的話，他就會下台，但是他不能保證一定不會漲電價。其實我們並不關心他下不下台，我們關心的是台電每次都一直要大家撥補、撥補、撥補，卻不去考慮營運的改善或是降低發電成本，如果最後郭部長走了，其實臺灣沒什麼人在乎他走不走，臺灣人在乎的是電價會不會無止境的上漲。因此，你應該要保證，這次向立法院要這筆2,000億，未來是多久不會漲電價，你可以控制一定的營運能力，可以讓台電的公司體質恢復到比較良好，這才是我們國人想要知道的，這才是比較重要的，不知道你的立場如何？或是你能做出怎麼樣的保證？"],["曾董事長文生：我要向委員說明一件事情，第一個，電價並不是台電決定，我想你也很清楚。但是我剛才一直在……"],["葉委員元之：如果台電的營運好一點的話，大家就會認為不需要漲嘛！"],["曾董事長文生：剛才我在答詢時有不斷的強調一點，如果補貼進來之後，電價審議委員會就會對台電的財務狀況做總體的考慮，如果改善的幅度不夠大，他們就會考慮……"],["葉委員元之：我的時間到了，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝葉元之委員。","接著是牛煦庭委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":96,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-2-20,19-1","speakers":["賴惠員","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","賴瑞隆","顏寬恒","鄭正鈐","張啓楷","陳玉珍","陳亭妃","黃珊珊","李坤城","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","王鴻薇","蔡易餘","楊瓊瓔","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","羅明才","邱志偉","葉元之","牛煦庭","洪孟楷","黃國昌","邱議瑩","王世堅","陳超明"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-27"],"gazette_id":"11310701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310701_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政、經濟委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算追加預算案","agenda_id":"11310701_00001"}}}