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\"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,973 --> 00:00:08,863\n主席,謝謝。麻煩請我們主計處長以及我們經濟部次長。好,經濟部次長,主計長。來,那個主計長。\n\n2\n00:00:17,264 --> 00:00:39,083\n我看到媒體在你上任的時候給你很高的評價控管公款的能力強所以說你是一個很可以把關的過去到現在不管是你在地方政府或是中央的一個單位的一個表現就是可以把關的一個部分那我先請教一下在明年我們首次中央政府總預算突破3兆元\n\n3\n00:00:39,684 --> 00:00:41,565\n﹚立法院第11屆第2會期財政、經濟委員會第1次聯席會議（事由．審查中華民國11月26日\n\n4\n00:01:10,345 --> 00:01:26,524\n包括委員,這個部分因為我們有連續3年調漲但是我們都沒有在一個預算上做調整所以到今年一調漲的話本身它就會超過因為連續這個調漲的部分大概有分3年有11%\n\n5\n00:01:28,246 --> 00:01:53,096\n實施一連續兩年還有一個八點四所以整個合起來就調漲將近百分之三十但是我們前兩年都沒有給他調整預算所以到第三年才調整預算所以這個部分他的幅度就會比較大一點是啊但是這樣子本市也覺得說很莫名啊你如果說照理講你在過去你可以那就是變成說過去我們行政單位行政部門的這個行政預算也都有浮邊的情況\n\n6\n00:01:54,036 --> 00:02:11,075\n所以過去兩次也沒有調漲比今年來的嚴重但過去都可以承受那今年你說也要一次補期那還有就是有一些單位甚至調漲的都編列的都比調漲的高所以也才會有民眾會懷疑跟擔心說是不是明年還有可能再繼續調漲的空間\n\n7\n00:02:12,776 --> 00:02:27,701\n我再補充說明其實實際調漲的部分我覺得這樣變成是說是不是我們中央預算太過於編列的太過於腐爛了都有彈性的空間到那麼大剛剛您講連續3年30%所以換言之我們3兆元裡面有30%的預算其實有可能是有彈性空間的\n\n8\n00:02:33,223 --> 00:02:58,804\n不是,我這再說明一下,因為調整電費裡面有三個原因,一個就是調整的部分,那調整的部分今年大概是12.37億這個部分,大概16左右啦,調整16左右。那第二個就是因為有新增辦公廳設的部分,所以它這個部分電費會增加。那第三個就是優惠電價,它取消了,然後回歸部會來編列的部分,所以主要有三個部分。\n\n9\n00:02:59,124 --> 00:02:59,144\n市長﹖\n\n10\n00:03:25,089 --> 00:03:52,189\n我剛也在經濟委員會這邊有諮詢郭部長我講是說既然我們現在台電不是有都推廣是說各公家機關都應該用智慧電表就是要比較嚴格的控管說我們的各公家機關的用電量但是發現一個很離譜的事情勞動部北區分署的分署長他辦公室裡面可以搞質災牆然後說今年二月的澄清書就有員工澄清爆料講是說他的\n\n11\n00:03:54,144 --> 00:04:00,895\n公用電新莊本部112年的用電基準比去年高出許多高達3萬多度電\n\n12\n00:04:03,817 --> 00:04:03,837\n媒體報導\n\n13\n00:04:26,946 --> 00:04:50,964\n所以未來針對我們各公家機關的用電的部分我們不管是經濟部不管是台電我們既然已經有智慧電表了照理講我們應該是可以去了解是說去年這個公家機關它用多少電那今年它應該用電的狀況除非它有大幅度的人事的成長或是說它有大幅度的業務量的成長否則它的用電狀況是不是應該要\n\n14\n00:04:52,805 --> 00:04:53,366\n市長說明一下吧\n\n15\n00:05:09,571 --> 00:05:39,257\n那種AMI就是那個智慧電表我想他們那邊應該是沒有去去設置那個智慧電表不過現在沒有嗎?我們新莊那個是第二辦公室不是嗎?那個要去查一下要去查一下因為現在臺電在設的設施有分階段在依照不同條件但是應該照理講我們公家機關是不是要優先使用了?公家機關我們現在有跨部會現在有行政院社會永續長而且我們現在在推深度節能\n\n16\n00:05:39,797 --> 00:05:39,977\n李卓人議員﹗\n\n17\n00:06:06,374 --> 00:06:31,010\n他就有講過說公家機關要推智慧電表公家機關率先來做我們那時候還講說給你拍拍手說公家機關你要先做因為這才比較能夠精準的瞭解我每個階段我不是要公務同仁不做事是公務同仁做事我們都支持我們都鼓勵但是如果說突然間有異常的高或異常的低你可以做一個瞭解\n\n18\n00:06:31,510 --> 00:06:33,512\n（詢答及處理（事由．審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算追加預算案。．\n\n19\n00:07:00,194 --> 00:07:03,356\n主席長,我拜託你一下好不好,因為控管、公款的能力強,其實我覺得你的能力就在於是這個數字\n\n20\n00:07:16,564 --> 00:07:17,524\n委員會主委委員會主委\n\n21\n00:07:47,918 --> 00:07:48,199\n徐欣盈委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n973\t8863\t主席,謝謝。麻煩請我們主計處長以及我們經濟部次長。好,經濟部次長,主計長。來,那個主計長。\n17264\t39083\t我看到媒體在你上任的時候給你很高的評價控管公款的能力強所以說你是一個很可以把關的過去到現在不管是你在地方政府或是中央的一個單位的一個表現就是可以把關的一個部分那我先請教一下在明年我們首次中央政府總預算突破3兆元\n39684\t41565\t﹚立法院第11屆第2會期財政、經濟委員會第1次聯席會議（事由．審查中華民國11月26日\n70345\t86524\t包括委員,這個部分因為我們有連續3年調漲但是我們都沒有在一個預算上做調整所以到今年一調漲的話本身它就會超過因為連續這個調漲的部分大概有分3年有11%\n88246\t113096\t實施一連續兩年還有一個八點四所以整個合起來就調漲將近百分之三十但是我們前兩年都沒有給他調整預算所以到第三年才調整預算所以這個部分他的幅度就會比較大一點是啊但是這樣子本市也覺得說很莫名啊你如果說照理講你在過去你可以那就是變成說過去我們行政單位行政部門的這個行政預算也都有浮邊的情況\n114036\t131075\t所以過去兩次也沒有調漲比今年來的嚴重但過去都可以承受那今年你說也要一次補期那還有就是有一些單位甚至調漲的都編列的都比調漲的高所以也才會有民眾會懷疑跟擔心說是不是明年還有可能再繼續調漲的空間\n132776\t147701\t我再補充說明其實實際調漲的部分我覺得這樣變成是說是不是我們中央預算太過於編列的太過於腐爛了都有彈性的空間到那麼大剛剛您講連續3年30%所以換言之我們3兆元裡面有30%的預算其實有可能是有彈性空間的\n153223\t178804\t不是,我這再說明一下,因為調整電費裡面有三個原因,一個就是調整的部分,那調整的部分今年大概是12.37億這個部分,大概16左右啦,調整16左右。那第二個就是因為有新增辦公廳設的部分,所以它這個部分電費會增加。那第三個就是優惠電價,它取消了,然後回歸部會來編列的部分,所以主要有三個部分。\n179124\t179144\t市長﹖\n205089\t232189\t我剛也在經濟委員會這邊有諮詢郭部長我講是說既然我們現在台電不是有都推廣是說各公家機關都應該用智慧電表就是要比較嚴格的控管說我們的各公家機關的用電量但是發現一個很離譜的事情勞動部北區分署的分署長他辦公室裡面可以搞質災牆然後說今年二月的澄清書就有員工澄清爆料講是說他的\n234144\t240895\t公用電新莊本部112年的用電基準比去年高出許多高達3萬多度電\n243817\t243837\t媒體報導\n266946\t290964\t所以未來針對我們各公家機關的用電的部分我們不管是經濟部不管是台電我們既然已經有智慧電表了照理講我們應該是可以去了解是說去年這個公家機關它用多少電那今年它應該用電的狀況除非它有大幅度的人事的成長或是說它有大幅度的業務量的成長否則它的用電狀況是不是應該要\n292805\t293366\t市長說明一下吧\n309571\t339257\t那種AMI就是那個智慧電表我想他們那邊應該是沒有去去設置那個智慧電表不過現在沒有嗎?我們新莊那個是第二辦公室不是嗎?那個要去查一下要去查一下因為現在臺電在設的設施有分階段在依照不同條件但是應該照理講我們公家機關是不是要優先使用了?公家機關我們現在有跨部會現在有行政院社會永續長而且我們現在在推深度節能\n339797\t339977\t李卓人議員﹗\n366374\t391010\t他就有講過說公家機關要推智慧電表公家機關率先來做我們那時候還講說給你拍拍手說公家機關你要先做因為這才比較能夠精準的瞭解我每個階段我不是要公務同仁不做事是公務同仁做事我們都支持我們都鼓勵但是如果說突然間有異常的高或異常的低你可以做一個瞭解\n391510\t393512\t（詢答及處理（事由．審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算追加預算案。．\n420194\t423356\t主席長,我拜託你一下好不好,因為控管、公款的能力強,其實我覺得你的能力就在於是這個數字\n436564\t437524\t委員會主委委員會主委\n467918\t468199\t徐欣盈委員\n","txt":"主席,謝謝。麻煩請我們主計處長以及我們經濟部次長。好,經濟部次長,主計長。來,那個主計長。\n我看到媒體在你上任的時候給你很高的評價控管公款的能力強所以說你是一個很可以把關的過去到現在不管是你在地方政府或是中央的一個單位的一個表現就是可以把關的一個部分那我先請教一下在明年我們首次中央政府總預算突破3兆元\n﹚立法院第11屆第2會期財政、經濟委員會第1次聯席會議（事由．審查中華民國11月26日\n包括委員,這個部分因為我們有連續3年調漲但是我們都沒有在一個預算上做調整所以到今年一調漲的話本身它就會超過因為連續這個調漲的部分大概有分3年有11%\n實施一連續兩年還有一個八點四所以整個合起來就調漲將近百分之三十但是我們前兩年都沒有給他調整預算所以到第三年才調整預算所以這個部分他的幅度就會比較大一點是啊但是這樣子本市也覺得說很莫名啊你如果說照理講你在過去你可以那就是變成說過去我們行政單位行政部門的這個行政預算也都有浮邊的情況\n所以過去兩次也沒有調漲比今年來的嚴重但過去都可以承受那今年你說也要一次補期那還有就是有一些單位甚至調漲的都編列的都比調漲的高所以也才會有民眾會懷疑跟擔心說是不是明年還有可能再繼續調漲的空間\n我再補充說明其實實際調漲的部分我覺得這樣變成是說是不是我們中央預算太過於編列的太過於腐爛了都有彈性的空間到那麼大剛剛您講連續3年30%所以換言之我們3兆元裡面有30%的預算其實有可能是有彈性空間的\n不是,我這再說明一下,因為調整電費裡面有三個原因,一個就是調整的部分,那調整的部分今年大概是12.37億這個部分,大概16左右啦,調整16左右。那第二個就是因為有新增辦公廳設的部分,所以它這個部分電費會增加。那第三個就是優惠電價,它取消了,然後回歸部會來編列的部分,所以主要有三個部分。\n市長﹖\n我剛也在經濟委員會這邊有諮詢郭部長我講是說既然我們現在台電不是有都推廣是說各公家機關都應該用智慧電表就是要比較嚴格的控管說我們的各公家機關的用電量但是發現一個很離譜的事情勞動部北區分署的分署長他辦公室裡面可以搞質災牆然後說今年二月的澄清書就有員工澄清爆料講是說他的\n公用電新莊本部112年的用電基準比去年高出許多高達3萬多度電\n媒體報導\n所以未來針對我們各公家機關的用電的部分我們不管是經濟部不管是台電我們既然已經有智慧電表了照理講我們應該是可以去了解是說去年這個公家機關它用多少電那今年它應該用電的狀況除非它有大幅度的人事的成長或是說它有大幅度的業務量的成長否則它的用電狀況是不是應該要\n市長說明一下吧\n那種AMI就是那個智慧電表我想他們那邊應該是沒有去去設置那個智慧電表不過現在沒有嗎?我們新莊那個是第二辦公室不是嗎?那個要去查一下要去查一下因為現在臺電在設的設施有分階段在依照不同條件但是應該照理講我們公家機關是不是要優先使用了?公家機關我們現在有跨部會現在有行政院社會永續長而且我們現在在推深度節能\n李卓人議員﹗\n他就有講過說公家機關要推智慧電表公家機關率先來做我們那時候還講說給你拍拍手說公家機關你要先做因為這才比較能夠精準的瞭解我每個階段我不是要公務同仁不做事是公務同仁做事我們都支持我們都鼓勵但是如果說突然間有異常的高或異常的低你可以做一個瞭解\n（詢答及處理（事由．審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算追加預算案。．\n主席長,我拜託你一下好不好,因為控管、公款的能力強,其實我覺得你的能力就在於是這個數字\n委員會主委委員會主委\n徐欣盈委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.973 --> 00:08.863\n主席,謝謝。麻煩請我們主計處長以及我們經濟部次長。好,經濟部次長,主計長。來,那個主計長。\n\n00:17.264 --> 00:39.083\n我看到媒體在你上任的時候給你很高的評價控管公款的能力強所以說你是一個很可以把關的過去到現在不管是你在地方政府或是中央的一個單位的一個表現就是可以把關的一個部分那我先請教一下在明年我們首次中央政府總預算突破3兆元\n\n00:39.684 --> 00:41.565\n﹚立法院第11屆第2會期財政、經濟委員會第1次聯席會議（事由．審查中華民國11月26日\n\n01:10.345 --> 01:26.524\n包括委員,這個部分因為我們有連續3年調漲但是我們都沒有在一個預算上做調整所以到今年一調漲的話本身它就會超過因為連續這個調漲的部分大概有分3年有11%\n\n01:28.246 --> 01:53.096\n實施一連續兩年還有一個八點四所以整個合起來就調漲將近百分之三十但是我們前兩年都沒有給他調整預算所以到第三年才調整預算所以這個部分他的幅度就會比較大一點是啊但是這樣子本市也覺得說很莫名啊你如果說照理講你在過去你可以那就是變成說過去我們行政單位行政部門的這個行政預算也都有浮邊的情況\n\n01:54.036 --> 02:11.075\n所以過去兩次也沒有調漲比今年來的嚴重但過去都可以承受那今年你說也要一次補期那還有就是有一些單位甚至調漲的都編列的都比調漲的高所以也才會有民眾會懷疑跟擔心說是不是明年還有可能再繼續調漲的空間\n\n02:12.776 --> 02:27.701\n我再補充說明其實實際調漲的部分我覺得這樣變成是說是不是我們中央預算太過於編列的太過於腐爛了都有彈性的空間到那麼大剛剛您講連續3年30%所以換言之我們3兆元裡面有30%的預算其實有可能是有彈性空間的\n\n02:33.223 --> 02:58.804\n不是,我這再說明一下,因為調整電費裡面有三個原因,一個就是調整的部分,那調整的部分今年大概是12.37億這個部分,大概16左右啦,調整16左右。那第二個就是因為有新增辦公廳設的部分,所以它這個部分電費會增加。那第三個就是優惠電價,它取消了,然後回歸部會來編列的部分,所以主要有三個部分。\n\n02:59.124 --> 02:59.144\n市長﹖\n\n03:25.089 --> 03:52.189\n我剛也在經濟委員會這邊有諮詢郭部長我講是說既然我們現在台電不是有都推廣是說各公家機關都應該用智慧電表就是要比較嚴格的控管說我們的各公家機關的用電量但是發現一個很離譜的事情勞動部北區分署的分署長他辦公室裡面可以搞質災牆然後說今年二月的澄清書就有員工澄清爆料講是說他的\n\n03:54.144 --> 04:00.895\n公用電新莊本部112年的用電基準比去年高出許多高達3萬多度電\n\n04:03.817 --> 04:03.837\n媒體報導\n\n04:26.946 --> 04:50.964\n所以未來針對我們各公家機關的用電的部分我們不管是經濟部不管是台電我們既然已經有智慧電表了照理講我們應該是可以去了解是說去年這個公家機關它用多少電那今年它應該用電的狀況除非它有大幅度的人事的成長或是說它有大幅度的業務量的成長否則它的用電狀況是不是應該要\n\n04:52.805 --> 04:53.366\n市長說明一下吧\n\n05:09.571 --> 05:39.257\n那種AMI就是那個智慧電表我想他們那邊應該是沒有去去設置那個智慧電表不過現在沒有嗎?我們新莊那個是第二辦公室不是嗎?那個要去查一下要去查一下因為現在臺電在設的設施有分階段在依照不同條件但是應該照理講我們公家機關是不是要優先使用了?公家機關我們現在有跨部會現在有行政院社會永續長而且我們現在在推深度節能\n\n05:39.797 --> 05:39.977\n李卓人議員﹗\n\n06:06.374 --> 06:31.010\n他就有講過說公家機關要推智慧電表公家機關率先來做我們那時候還講說給你拍拍手說公家機關你要先做因為這才比較能夠精準的瞭解我每個階段我不是要公務同仁不做事是公務同仁做事我們都支持我們都鼓勵但是如果說突然間有異常的高或異常的低你可以做一個瞭解\n\n06:31.510 --> 06:33.512\n（詢答及處理（事由．審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算追加預算案。．\n\n07:00.194 --> 07:03.356\n主席長,我拜託你一下好不好,因為控管、公款的能力強,其實我覺得你的能力就在於是這個數字\n\n07:16.564 --> 07:17.524\n委員會主委委員會主委\n\n07:47.918 --> 07:48.199\n徐欣盈委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.973,"end":8.863,"text":"主席,謝謝。麻煩請我們主計處長以及我們經濟部次長。好,經濟部次長,主計長。來,那個主計長。"},{"start":17.264,"end":39.083,"text":"我看到媒體在你上任的時候給你很高的評價控管公款的能力強所以說你是一個很可以把關的過去到現在不管是你在地方政府或是中央的一個單位的一個表現就是可以把關的一個部分那我先請教一下在明年我們首次中央政府總預算突破3兆元"},{"start":39.684,"end":41.565,"text":"﹚立法院第11屆第2會期財政、經濟委員會第1次聯席會議（事由．審查中華民國11月26日"},{"start":70.345,"end":86.524,"text":"包括委員,這個部分因為我們有連續3年調漲但是我們都沒有在一個預算上做調整所以到今年一調漲的話本身它就會超過因為連續這個調漲的部分大概有分3年有11%"},{"start":88.246,"end":113.096,"text":"實施一連續兩年還有一個八點四所以整個合起來就調漲將近百分之三十但是我們前兩年都沒有給他調整預算所以到第三年才調整預算所以這個部分他的幅度就會比較大一點是啊但是這樣子本市也覺得說很莫名啊你如果說照理講你在過去你可以那就是變成說過去我們行政單位行政部門的這個行政預算也都有浮邊的情況"},{"start":114.036,"end":131.075,"text":"所以過去兩次也沒有調漲比今年來的嚴重但過去都可以承受那今年你說也要一次補期那還有就是有一些單位甚至調漲的都編列的都比調漲的高所以也才會有民眾會懷疑跟擔心說是不是明年還有可能再繼續調漲的空間"},{"start":132.776,"end":147.701,"text":"我再補充說明其實實際調漲的部分我覺得這樣變成是說是不是我們中央預算太過於編列的太過於腐爛了都有彈性的空間到那麼大剛剛您講連續3年30%所以換言之我們3兆元裡面有30%的預算其實有可能是有彈性空間的"},{"start":153.223,"end":178.804,"text":"不是,我這再說明一下,因為調整電費裡面有三個原因,一個就是調整的部分,那調整的部分今年大概是12.37億這個部分,大概16左右啦,調整16左右。那第二個就是因為有新增辦公廳設的部分,所以它這個部分電費會增加。那第三個就是優惠電價,它取消了,然後回歸部會來編列的部分,所以主要有三個部分。"},{"start":179.124,"end":179.144,"text":"市長﹖"},{"start":205.089,"end":232.189,"text":"我剛也在經濟委員會這邊有諮詢郭部長我講是說既然我們現在台電不是有都推廣是說各公家機關都應該用智慧電表就是要比較嚴格的控管說我們的各公家機關的用電量但是發現一個很離譜的事情勞動部北區分署的分署長他辦公室裡面可以搞質災牆然後說今年二月的澄清書就有員工澄清爆料講是說他的"},{"start":234.144,"end":240.895,"text":"公用電新莊本部112年的用電基準比去年高出許多高達3萬多度電"},{"start":243.817,"end":243.837,"text":"媒體報導"},{"start":266.946,"end":290.964,"text":"所以未來針對我們各公家機關的用電的部分我們不管是經濟部不管是台電我們既然已經有智慧電表了照理講我們應該是可以去了解是說去年這個公家機關它用多少電那今年它應該用電的狀況除非它有大幅度的人事的成長或是說它有大幅度的業務量的成長否則它的用電狀況是不是應該要"},{"start":292.805,"end":293.366,"text":"市長說明一下吧"},{"start":309.571,"end":339.257,"text":"那種AMI就是那個智慧電表我想他們那邊應該是沒有去去設置那個智慧電表不過現在沒有嗎?我們新莊那個是第二辦公室不是嗎?那個要去查一下要去查一下因為現在臺電在設的設施有分階段在依照不同條件但是應該照理講我們公家機關是不是要優先使用了?公家機關我們現在有跨部會現在有行政院社會永續長而且我們現在在推深度節能"},{"start":339.797,"end":339.977,"text":"李卓人議員﹗"},{"start":366.374,"end":391.01,"text":"他就有講過說公家機關要推智慧電表公家機關率先來做我們那時候還講說給你拍拍手說公家機關你要先做因為這才比較能夠精準的瞭解我每個階段我不是要公務同仁不做事是公務同仁做事我們都支持我們都鼓勵但是如果說突然間有異常的高或異常的低你可以做一個瞭解"},{"start":391.51,"end":393.512,"text":"（詢答及處理（事由．審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算追加預算案。．"},{"start":420.194,"end":423.356,"text":"主席長,我拜託你一下好不好,因為控管、公款的能力強,其實我覺得你的能力就在於是這個數字"},{"start":436.564,"end":437.524,"text":"委員會主委委員會主委"},{"start":467.918,"end":468.199,"text":"徐欣盈委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1102,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（13時35分）主席，謝謝。麻煩請主計長以及經濟部次長。"],["主席：經濟部次長、主計長。"],["陳主計長淑姿：委員好。"],["洪委員孟楷：主計長，我看到媒體在你上任時給你很高的評價，控管公款的能力強啊！所以你是一個很可以把關的人。從過去到現在，不管是在地方政府或是中央的單位，你的表現就是可以把關的部分。我先請教一下，明年中央政府總預算首次突破3兆元，其中有好多個部會，我們看到它的行政相關支出都調漲，給我們的說法都是為了因應所謂的電價調漲，所以它的行政預算也要跟著調漲。但是即便是今年，我們的電價調漲也只有12.5%，換言之，如果明年各部會的行政預算調漲超過12.5%，是不是就不合理？"],["陳主計長淑姿：報告委員，因為這個部分有連續三年調漲，但是我們都沒有在預算上做調整，所以到了今年一調漲的話，它本身就會超過了。因為連續調漲的部分，分三年有連續兩年的11%以及一個8.4%，整個合起來就調漲將近30%，但是我們前兩年都沒讓它調整預算，到了第三年才調整預算，所以這個部分的幅度就會比較大一點。"],["洪委員孟楷：但是這樣本席也覺得很莫名啊！照理講，過去行政部門的行政預算也都有浮編的情況，但過去兩次也沒有調漲比今年來得嚴重啊！既然過去都可以承受，今年你說要一次補齊，甚至有些單位編列的都比調漲的高，才會有民眾懷疑及擔心明年是不是可能還有繼續調漲的空間啊！"],["陳主計長淑姿：我再補充說明，其實實際調漲的部分應該……"],["洪委員孟楷：我覺得是不是我們的中央預算編列得太過於浮濫，都有那麼大的彈性空間？剛剛你講連續三年是30%，換言之，在3兆元裡有30%的預算其實有可能是有彈性空間的。"],["陳主計長淑姿：我再說明一下，調漲電費有3個原因，一個就是調整的部分，今年調整的部分大概是12.37億、大概是16左右。第二個，因為有新增辦公廳舍，這個部分的電費就會增加。第三個，優惠電價取消了，回歸部會編列的部分。因此，主要有3個部分。"],["洪委員孟楷：主計長，因為各單位都不一樣，但是所有單位在這次提出來的總預算、行政預算都往上提高，這是事實嘛！對不對？"],["陳主計長淑姿：對，提高的部分只有提高一點，並沒有所謂三年的30%一次調高，不是這樣子。"],["洪委員孟楷：那就拉回來了，我們就看各公家機關是不是都有妥善運用這些錢。","次長，剛剛我也在經濟委員會質詢過部長，現在台電推廣公家機關都應該使用智慧電表，其實就是要比較嚴格控管各公家機關的用電量，但是發現一件很離譜的事情，勞動部北區分署的分署長可以在辦公室裡搞植栽牆，今年2月就有員工陳情爆料，新莊本部112年的用電基準比去年高出許多，高達三萬多度電，這是媒體報導的。如果今天公部門沒有嚴格把關或monitor或是去了解各公家機關用電的狀況，卻持續要求民眾、一般老百姓節約用電，甚至總統煞有其事的成立了一個氣候變遷對策委員會，結論就是要大家節約用電，這樣不是很奇怪嘛！","因此，未來針對各公家機關用電的部分，不管是經濟部、不管是台電，既然已經有智慧電表，照理講，我們應該可以了解去年這個公家機關用了多少電，今年的用電狀況，除非它有大幅度的人事成長或是它有大幅度的業務量成長，否則，它的用電狀況是不是應該要持平，或是比例不應該過高、過低？如果有過高、過低的狀況，是不是就應該要去了解為什麼這個公務機關的用電量突然變那麼大，是不是又有分署長亂搞？次長，說明一下吧！"],["連次長錦漳：因為現在正在弄AMI，也就是智慧電表，我想他們那邊應該是沒有設置智慧電表，不過，現在……"],["洪委員孟楷：沒有嗎？新莊那個是第二辦公室，不是嗎？"],["連次長錦漳：要去查一下、要去查一下，因為台電是依照不同條件分階段設置智慧電錶。"],["洪委員孟楷：照理講，公家機關是不是要優先使用了？"],["連次長錦漳：現在行政院設了跨部會的永續長，而且我們現在正在推深度節能，結合九大部會，先針對國營事業相關的辦公大樓，現在已經在做深度節能，我們也會把這個東西的相關資料都臚列出來。委員講的涉及到各部會的辦公大樓，我們可以在永續長的平台把它提出來，並將相關資料提供給各部會參考。"],["洪委員孟楷：我記得之前質詢過王美花部長，當時她就講過公家機關要推智慧電表、公家機關率先來做，我們還說給你拍拍手！還說公家機關要先做，因為這樣才能比較精準的了解每個階段。我不是要公務同仁不做事，而是對於公務同仁做事都支持、都鼓勵，但是如果突然間有異常的高或異常的低，你可以做一個了解，才不會讓財政部門認為……主計單位其實看的就是這些啊！即使你沒辦法去現地看，但是你可以看數字，一攤開就知道為什麼與去年同期比較有比較異常的狀況。"],["連次長錦漳：好，我們會去了解，因為分署是在整個勞動部的同棟大樓，它是不是分表，我們不知道，但是總表有一些數據，如果分署單獨的變異不是很大，真的從那個總表是看不出來。我們現在針對這個……"],["主席：次長，會後趕快把資料……"],["洪委員孟楷：主計長，拜託一下！因為你控管公款的能力強，其實我覺得你的能力就在於數字管理，之前你也擔任過研考會主委，所以你也非常了解，是不是針對未來總預算的部分，尤其是公家部門，應該要針對它們有沒有裝設智慧電表去做了解，不要讓我們的行政預算感覺太過於浮濫？"],["陳主計長淑姿：是，我們來努力。"],["洪委員孟楷：這個是不是也能當成一個指標，要求各公家機關必須裝設智慧電錶，後續行政費用的編列才有依據？"],["陳主計長淑姿：是，我們來研究。"],["洪委員孟楷：這個當成一個指標，研究看看，麻煩，謝謝。"],["陳主計長淑姿：謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝孟楷委員。","徐欣瑩委員、徐欣瑩委員、徐欣瑩委員不在。","林楚茵委員、林楚茵委員、林楚茵委員不在。","邱議瑩委員、邱議瑩委員、邱議瑩委員不在。","蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員不在。","接著請黃國昌委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":96,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-2-20,19-1","speakers":["賴惠員","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","賴瑞隆","顏寬恒","鄭正鈐","張啓楷","陳玉珍","陳亭妃","黃珊珊","李坤城","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","王鴻薇","蔡易餘","楊瓊瓔","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","羅明才","邱志偉","葉元之","牛煦庭","洪孟楷","黃國昌","邱議瑩","王世堅","陳超明"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-27"],"gazette_id":"11310701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310701_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政、經濟委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算追加預算案","agenda_id":"11310701_00001"}}}