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00:01:32,902\n我們想要知道是說到底新核能是我們國內國家認為缺電這個議題真的很重要能源議題真的很重要我們真的有投入相關經費在研究還是說只是以拖待變想要畫大餅來給工商界的朋友一個虛無縹緲的幻想\n\n6\n00:01:34,213 --> 00:01:54,307\n國科會在各種節省能源、捷徑能源的研究一直都是開放的角度所以我們學界的確是有計畫在進行當中本席有看到我們相關的預算裡面你到底編列了多少預算或多少的計畫在做所謂的這個新核能的研究開發還是至少跟國外接軌\n\n7\n00:01:55,916 --> 00:01:57,857\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n\n8\n00:02:22,667 --> 00:02:25,975\n河中河研究大概有4500萬元你的總預算多少?\n\n9\n00:02:29,974 --> 00:02:39,662\n一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n\n10\n00:02:58,624 --> 00:03:12,865\n你明年的總預算一千六百多億然後你明年卓榮泰院長民進黨政府對於工商請先聽完本席的問題可以嗎不要急\n\n11\n00:03:14,059 --> 00:03:16,883\n第二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n\n12\n00:03:29,343 --> 00:03:44,064\n第1、卓榮泰院長念茲再茲強調合龍合所有的工商協競會早餐會都喊話希望合律共存擔心台灣缺電這也是全民所擔心的啊能源是選擇沒有對錯\n\n13\n00:03:46,067 --> 00:04:02,681\n你要用火力發電、核能發電、水力發電、再生能源本期之前就講過了我們支持的是再生能源持續發展我們支持的是減碳我們支持的是能夠讓台灣走向淨零碳排所以嘛你明年的預算1600多億對不對\n\n14\n00:04:06,872 --> 00:04:10,615\n第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會及所屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n\n15\n00:04:25,879 --> 00:04:27,320\n到底投入多少經費、多少人員、多少計劃的態度?主委,你覺得夠嗎?\n\n16\n00:04:49,912 --> 00:04:55,513\n只要有學者願意投入我們可以增加這是沒有問題的。外界你有接受日本媒體訪問的時候有講到說未來3年每年會編列10億元美金來強化主權的AI那你甚至有講到是說\n\n17\n00:05:18,579 --> 00:05:39,430\n當台灣預期會面對川普新任美國總統的施壓分享更多先進的技術的時候你的回答是這樣的策略符合川普的期望我想請教一下符合川普的期望是台灣利益跟先進技術有可能會被犧牲嗎?不會犧牲那如果說川普先聽完本節目問題好了\n\n18\n00:05:40,646 --> 00:05:55,803\n主委我覺得你本席本來是很期待你但是過去這段時間真的我覺得所有的我們相關的同仁都看到你展現出一點科學人的務實的精神好不好這是本席給你很大的一個期許\n\n19\n00:05:57,833 --> 00:06:22,610\n如果我們現在有強調我們先進的製程落後一代也就是N-1的原則就希望說台灣保有最先進的國外相對來講比較往後一代的這樣的一個原則但如果說未來川普的期待是要打破這樣的原則你覺得我們有辦法堅持嗎我們有辦法堅持來理由是什麼那你如果好好聽我講台灣的\n\n20\n00:06:25,879 --> 00:06:28,860\n及所屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n\n21\n00:06:41,545 --> 00:06:43,067\n及所屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n\n22\n00:06:56,607 --> 00:07:13,143\n對全世界都是有利的好,非常好本席讓你完整表達記住這一句話未來我們來檢驗不過既然如此我想賴政府2025年投入AI行動計畫2.0再加上精創台灣方案總共289億元將近300億元那是不是AI是顯學\n\n23\n00:07:19,048 --> 00:07:44,166\n現在各行各業或各部門都要做AI沒有錯好那主委我想AI有沒有應該就是不要碟床架屋而是有一個綜合的規劃來去推動報告委員因為核心AI技術的研究那當然就是在AI計畫裡面但是它的應用是非常多樣性的一定要結合各種應用的推動計畫共同合作\n\n24\n00:07:46,087 --> 00:08:15,527\n但是有沒有一個主體性是可以來讓各部會去了解說到底怎麼樣運用AI的技術而不是大家如蝦子摸象一樣各自摸索有,我們編列的預算包含在數位發展部在政府推動的部分所以數位發展部可能是一個起頭是不是它是一個起頭好,來主委我特別會提這一點就是因為我們現在看到各部會都有一些亂象就明年很多的預算只要掛上AI兩個字好像它就變成是說它\n\n25\n00:08:16,888 --> 00:08:26,194\n有關國家科學技術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關國家科學技術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關國家科學技術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關國家科學技術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關國家科學技術發展基金附屬單位預算案\n\n26\n00:08:42,566 --> 00:08:58,130\n還是數位部有指使勞動部要去做AI智能方案因為到最後我們看到說勞動部自己部本部也沒有做還是分屬他們自己去執行或者是我們現在看到公廣集團要砸3000萬做AI\n\n27\n00:09:00,714 --> 00:09:02,257\n及所屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n\n28\n00:09:13,442 --> 00:09:17,105\n第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會及所屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術委第11屆第2會期教育及技術委\n\n29\n00:09:35,803 --> 00:10:03,123\n主委發展部也好或是我們國科會也好照理講都應該要有一個上位的計畫目標跟方案讓所有部門能夠往這樣的方向邁進而不是你只是美其名所有計畫編一個AI多加AI兩個字你就變成是好像完全不同但是其實換湯不換藥我們編列科技預算當然是協助各部會來執行這些我們以後會多協助他們\n\n30\n00:10:05,672 --> 00:10:29,059\n主委本期還是強調要做就務實的做科學人我們就用科學人角度跟你溝通如果說你要用政治語言的話那我們就會用政治語言來跟你溝通這一點真的請我們的主委好好的放在心裡面以及當我們所有同仁的表率謝謝好謝謝委員好謝謝洪孟凱委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n69\t89\t紅夢凱委員質詢\n11781\t16305\t工商協定會前天的工商早餐會我想這也是國內大家所關心的重點\n31238\t45288\t那其中強調一個部分就是說希望能夠合律共存甚至他沒有講是說有九成的會員是擔心核電歸零之後缺電超過八成同意核電研議主委你有看到這個新聞嗎有稍微了解是不是這有什麼好不好回答的難言之隱是什麼意思\n55520\t57382\t一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n75160\t92902\t我們想要知道是說到底新核能是我們國內國家認為缺電這個議題真的很重要能源議題真的很重要我們真的有投入相關經費在研究還是說只是以拖待變想要畫大餅來給工商界的朋友一個虛無縹緲的幻想\n94213\t114307\t國科會在各種節省能源、捷徑能源的研究一直都是開放的角度所以我們學界的確是有計畫在進行當中本席有看到我們相關的預算裡面你到底編列了多少預算或多少的計畫在做所謂的這個新核能的研究開發還是至少跟國外接軌\n115916\t117857\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n142667\t145975\t河中河研究大概有4500萬元你的總預算多少?\n149974\t159662\t一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n178624\t192865\t你明年的總預算一千六百多億然後你明年卓榮泰院長民進黨政府對於工商請先聽完本席的問題可以嗎不要急\n194059\t196883\t第二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n209343\t224064\t第1、卓榮泰院長念茲再茲強調合龍合所有的工商協競會早餐會都喊話希望合律共存擔心台灣缺電這也是全民所擔心的啊能源是選擇沒有對錯\n226067\t242681\t你要用火力發電、核能發電、水力發電、再生能源本期之前就講過了我們支持的是再生能源持續發展我們支持的是減碳我們支持的是能夠讓台灣走向淨零碳排所以嘛你明年的預算1600多億 對不對\n246872\t250615\t第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會及所屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n265879\t267320\t到底投入多少經費、多少人員、多少計劃的態度?主委,你覺得夠嗎?\n289912\t295513\t只要有學者願意投入我們可以增加這是沒有問題的。外界你有接受日本媒體訪問的時候有講到說未來3年每年會編列10億元美金來強化主權的AI那你甚至有講到是說\n318579\t339430\t當台灣預期會面對川普新任美國總統的施壓分享更多先進的技術的時候你的回答是這樣的策略符合川普的期望我想請教一下符合川普的期望是台灣利益跟先進技術有可能會被犧牲嗎?不會犧牲那如果說川普先聽完本節目問題好了\n340646\t355803\t主委我覺得你本席本來是很期待你但是過去這段時間真的我覺得所有的我們相關的同仁都看到你展現出一點科學人的務實的精神好不好這是本席給你很大的一個期許\n357833\t382610\t如果我們現在有強調我們先進的製程落後一代也就是N-1的原則就希望說台灣保有最先進的國外相對來講比較往後一代的這樣的一個原則但如果說未來川普的期待是要打破這樣的原則你覺得我們有辦法堅持嗎我們有辦法堅持來理由是什麼那你如果好好聽我講台灣的\n385879\t388860\t及所屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n401545\t403067\t及所屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n416607\t433143\t對全世界都是有利的好,非常好本席讓你完整表達記住這一句話未來我們來檢驗不過既然如此我想賴政府2025年投入AI行動計畫2.0再加上精創台灣方案總共289億元將近300億元那是不是AI是顯學\n439048\t464166\t現在各行各業或各部門都要做AI沒有錯好那主委我想AI有沒有應該就是不要碟床架屋而是有一個綜合的規劃來去推動報告委員因為核心AI技術的研究那當然就是在AI計畫裡面但是它的應用是非常多樣性的一定要結合各種應用的推動計畫共同合作\n466087\t495527\t但是有沒有一個主體性是可以來讓各部會去了解說到底怎麼樣運用AI的技術而不是大家如蝦子摸象一樣各自摸索有,我們編列的預算包含在數位發展部在政府推動的部分所以數位發展部可能是一個起頭是不是它是一個起頭好,來主委我特別會提這一點就是因為我們現在看到各部會都有一些亂象就明年很多的預算只要掛上AI兩個字好像它就變成是說它\n496888\t506194\t有關國家科學技術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關國家科學技術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關國家科學技術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關國家科學技術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關國家科學技術發展基金附屬單位預算案\n522566\t538130\t還是數位部有指使勞動部要去做AI智能方案因為到最後我們看到說勞動部自己部本部也沒有做還是分屬他們自己去執行或者是我們現在看到公廣集團要砸3000萬做AI\n540714\t542257\t及所屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n553442\t557105\t第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會及所屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術委第11屆第2會期教育及技術委\n575803\t603123\t主委發展部也好或是我們國科會也好照理講都應該要有一個上位的計畫目標跟方案讓所有部門能夠往這樣的方向邁進而不是你只是美其名所有計畫編一個AI多加AI兩個字你就變成是好像完全不同但是其實換湯不換藥我們編列科技預算當然是協助各部會來執行這些我們以後會多協助他們\n605672\t629059\t主委本期還是強調要做就務實的做科學人我們就用科學人角度跟你溝通如果說你要用政治語言的話那我們就會用政治語言來跟你溝通這一點真的請我們的主委好好的放在心裡面以及當我們所有同仁的表率謝謝好謝謝委員好謝謝洪孟凱委員\n","txt":"紅夢凱委員質詢\n工商協定會前天的工商早餐會我想這也是國內大家所關心的重點\n那其中強調一個部分就是說希望能夠合律共存甚至他沒有講是說有九成的會員是擔心核電歸零之後缺電超過八成同意核電研議主委你有看到這個新聞嗎有稍微了解是不是這有什麼好不好回答的難言之隱是什麼意思\n一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n我們想要知道是說到底新核能是我們國內國家認為缺電這個議題真的很重要能源議題真的很重要我們真的有投入相關經費在研究還是說只是以拖待變想要畫大餅來給工商界的朋友一個虛無縹緲的幻想\n國科會在各種節省能源、捷徑能源的研究一直都是開放的角度所以我們學界的確是有計畫在進行當中本席有看到我們相關的預算裡面你到底編列了多少預算或多少的計畫在做所謂的這個新核能的研究開發還是至少跟國外接軌\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n河中河研究大概有4500萬元你的總預算多少?\n一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n你明年的總預算一千六百多億然後你明年卓榮泰院長民進黨政府對於工商請先聽完本席的問題可以嗎不要急\n第二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n第1、卓榮泰院長念茲再茲強調合龍合所有的工商協競會早餐會都喊話希望合律共存擔心台灣缺電這也是全民所擔心的啊能源是選擇沒有對錯\n你要用火力發電、核能發電、水力發電、再生能源本期之前就講過了我們支持的是再生能源持續發展我們支持的是減碳我們支持的是能夠讓台灣走向淨零碳排所以嘛你明年的預算1600多億 對不對\n第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會及所屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n到底投入多少經費、多少人員、多少計劃的態度?主委,你覺得夠嗎?\n只要有學者願意投入我們可以增加這是沒有問題的。外界你有接受日本媒體訪問的時候有講到說未來3年每年會編列10億元美金來強化主權的AI那你甚至有講到是說\n當台灣預期會面對川普新任美國總統的施壓分享更多先進的技術的時候你的回答是這樣的策略符合川普的期望我想請教一下符合川普的期望是台灣利益跟先進技術有可能會被犧牲嗎?不會犧牲那如果說川普先聽完本節目問題好了\n主委我覺得你本席本來是很期待你但是過去這段時間真的我覺得所有的我們相關的同仁都看到你展現出一點科學人的務實的精神好不好這是本席給你很大的一個期許\n如果我們現在有強調我們先進的製程落後一代也就是N-1的原則就希望說台灣保有最先進的國外相對來講比較往後一代的這樣的一個原則但如果說未來川普的期待是要打破這樣的原則你覺得我們有辦法堅持嗎我們有辦法堅持來理由是什麼那你如果好好聽我講台灣的\n及所屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n及所屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n對全世界都是有利的好,非常好本席讓你完整表達記住這一句話未來我們來檢驗不過既然如此我想賴政府2025年投入AI行動計畫2.0再加上精創台灣方案總共289億元將近300億元那是不是AI是顯學\n現在各行各業或各部門都要做AI沒有錯好那主委我想AI有沒有應該就是不要碟床架屋而是有一個綜合的規劃來去推動報告委員因為核心AI技術的研究那當然就是在AI計畫裡面但是它的應用是非常多樣性的一定要結合各種應用的推動計畫共同合作\n但是有沒有一個主體性是可以來讓各部會去了解說到底怎麼樣運用AI的技術而不是大家如蝦子摸象一樣各自摸索有,我們編列的預算包含在數位發展部在政府推動的部分所以數位發展部可能是一個起頭是不是它是一個起頭好,來主委我特別會提這一點就是因為我們現在看到各部會都有一些亂象就明年很多的預算只要掛上AI兩個字好像它就變成是說它\n有關國家科學技術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關國家科學技術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關國家科學技術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關國家科學技術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關國家科學技術發展基金附屬單位預算案\n還是數位部有指使勞動部要去做AI智能方案因為到最後我們看到說勞動部自己部本部也沒有做還是分屬他們自己去執行或者是我們現在看到公廣集團要砸3000萬做AI\n及所屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會及所屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術委第11屆第2會期教育及技術委\n主委發展部也好或是我們國科會也好照理講都應該要有一個上位的計畫目標跟方案讓所有部門能夠往這樣的方向邁進而不是你只是美其名所有計畫編一個AI多加AI兩個字你就變成是好像完全不同但是其實換湯不換藥我們編列科技預算當然是協助各部會來執行這些我們以後會多協助他們\n主委本期還是強調要做就務實的做科學人我們就用科學人角度跟你溝通如果說你要用政治語言的話那我們就會用政治語言來跟你溝通這一點真的請我們的主委好好的放在心裡面以及當我們所有同仁的表率謝謝好謝謝委員好謝謝洪孟凱委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.069 --> 00:00.089\n紅夢凱委員質詢\n\n00:11.781 --> 00:16.305\n工商協定會前天的工商早餐會我想這也是國內大家所關心的重點\n\n00:31.238 --> 00:45.288\n那其中強調一個部分就是說希望能夠合律共存甚至他沒有講是說有九成的會員是擔心核電歸零之後缺電超過八成同意核電研議主委你有看到這個新聞嗎有稍微了解是不是這有什麼好不好回答的難言之隱是什麼意思\n\n00:55.520 --> 00:57.382\n一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n\n01:15.160 --> 01:32.902\n我們想要知道是說到底新核能是我們國內國家認為缺電這個議題真的很重要能源議題真的很重要我們真的有投入相關經費在研究還是說只是以拖待變想要畫大餅來給工商界的朋友一個虛無縹緲的幻想\n\n01:34.213 --> 01:54.307\n國科會在各種節省能源、捷徑能源的研究一直都是開放的角度所以我們學界的確是有計畫在進行當中本席有看到我們相關的預算裡面你到底編列了多少預算或多少的計畫在做所謂的這個新核能的研究開發還是至少跟國外接軌\n\n01:55.916 --> 01:57.857\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n\n02:22.667 --> 02:25.975\n河中河研究大概有4500萬元你的總預算多少?\n\n02:29.974 --> 02:39.662\n一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n\n02:58.624 --> 03:12.865\n你明年的總預算一千六百多億然後你明年卓榮泰院長民進黨政府對於工商請先聽完本席的問題可以嗎不要急\n\n03:14.059 --> 03:16.883\n第二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n\n03:29.343 --> 03:44.064\n第1、卓榮泰院長念茲再茲強調合龍合所有的工商協競會早餐會都喊話希望合律共存擔心台灣缺電這也是全民所擔心的啊能源是選擇沒有對錯\n\n03:46.067 --> 04:02.681\n你要用火力發電、核能發電、水力發電、再生能源本期之前就講過了我們支持的是再生能源持續發展我們支持的是減碳我們支持的是能夠讓台灣走向淨零碳排所以嘛你明年的預算1600多億對不對\n\n04:06.872 --> 04:10.615\n第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會及所屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n\n04:25.879 --> 04:27.320\n到底投入多少經費、多少人員、多少計劃的態度?主委,你覺得夠嗎?\n\n04:49.912 --> 04:55.513\n只要有學者願意投入我們可以增加這是沒有問題的。外界你有接受日本媒體訪問的時候有講到說未來3年每年會編列10億元美金來強化主權的AI那你甚至有講到是說\n\n05:18.579 --> 05:39.430\n當台灣預期會面對川普新任美國總統的施壓分享更多先進的技術的時候你的回答是這樣的策略符合川普的期望我想請教一下符合川普的期望是台灣利益跟先進技術有可能會被犧牲嗎?不會犧牲那如果說川普先聽完本節目問題好了\n\n05:40.646 --> 05:55.803\n主委我覺得你本席本來是很期待你但是過去這段時間真的我覺得所有的我們相關的同仁都看到你展現出一點科學人的務實的精神好不好這是本席給你很大的一個期許\n\n05:57.833 --> 06:22.610\n如果我們現在有強調我們先進的製程落後一代也就是N-1的原則就希望說台灣保有最先進的國外相對來講比較往後一代的這樣的一個原則但如果說未來川普的期待是要打破這樣的原則你覺得我們有辦法堅持嗎我們有辦法堅持來理由是什麼那你如果好好聽我講台灣的\n\n06:25.879 --> 06:28.860\n及所屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n\n06:41.545 --> 06:43.067\n及所屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n\n06:56.607 --> 07:13.143\n對全世界都是有利的好,非常好本席讓你完整表達記住這一句話未來我們來檢驗不過既然如此我想賴政府2025年投入AI行動計畫2.0再加上精創台灣方案總共289億元將近300億元那是不是AI是顯學\n\n07:19.048 --> 07:44.166\n現在各行各業或各部門都要做AI沒有錯好那主委我想AI有沒有應該就是不要碟床架屋而是有一個綜合的規劃來去推動報告委員因為核心AI技術的研究那當然就是在AI計畫裡面但是它的應用是非常多樣性的一定要結合各種應用的推動計畫共同合作\n\n07:46.087 --> 08:15.527\n但是有沒有一個主體性是可以來讓各部會去了解說到底怎麼樣運用AI的技術而不是大家如蝦子摸象一樣各自摸索有,我們編列的預算包含在數位發展部在政府推動的部分所以數位發展部可能是一個起頭是不是它是一個起頭好,來主委我特別會提這一點就是因為我們現在看到各部會都有一些亂象就明年很多的預算只要掛上AI兩個字好像它就變成是說它\n\n08:16.888 --> 08:26.194\n有關國家科學技術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關國家科學技術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關國家科學技術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關國家科學技術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關國家科學技術發展基金附屬單位預算案\n\n08:42.566 --> 08:58.130\n還是數位部有指使勞動部要去做AI智能方案因為到最後我們看到說勞動部自己部本部也沒有做還是分屬他們自己去執行或者是我們現在看到公廣集團要砸3000萬做AI\n\n09:00.714 --> 09:02.257\n及所屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n\n09:13.442 --> 09:17.105\n第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會及所屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術委第11屆第2會期教育及技術委\n\n09:35.803 --> 10:03.123\n主委發展部也好或是我們國科會也好照理講都應該要有一個上位的計畫目標跟方案讓所有部門能夠往這樣的方向邁進而不是你只是美其名所有計畫編一個AI多加AI兩個字你就變成是好像完全不同但是其實換湯不換藥我們編列科技預算當然是協助各部會來執行這些我們以後會多協助他們\n\n10:05.672 --> 10:29.059\n主委本期還是強調要做就務實的做科學人我們就用科學人角度跟你溝通如果說你要用政治語言的話那我們就會用政治語言來跟你溝通這一點真的請我們的主委好好的放在心裡面以及當我們所有同仁的表率謝謝好謝謝委員好謝謝洪孟凱委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.069,"end":0.089,"text":"紅夢凱委員質詢"},{"start":11.781,"end":16.305,"text":"工商協定會前天的工商早餐會我想這也是國內大家所關心的重點"},{"start":31.238,"end":45.288,"text":"那其中強調一個部分就是說希望能夠合律共存甚至他沒有講是說有九成的會員是擔心核電歸零之後缺電超過八成同意核電研議主委你有看到這個新聞嗎有稍微了解是不是這有什麼好不好回答的難言之隱是什麼意思"},{"start":55.52,"end":57.382,"text":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委"},{"start":75.16,"end":92.902,"text":"我們想要知道是說到底新核能是我們國內國家認為缺電這個議題真的很重要能源議題真的很重要我們真的有投入相關經費在研究還是說只是以拖待變想要畫大餅來給工商界的朋友一個虛無縹緲的幻想"},{"start":94.213,"end":114.307,"text":"國科會在各種節省能源、捷徑能源的研究一直都是開放的角度所以我們學界的確是有計畫在進行當中本席有看到我們相關的預算裡面你到底編列了多少預算或多少的計畫在做所謂的這個新核能的研究開發還是至少跟國外接軌"},{"start":115.916,"end":117.857,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委"},{"start":142.667,"end":145.975,"text":"河中河研究大概有4500萬元你的總預算多少?"},{"start":149.974,"end":159.662,"text":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委"},{"start":178.624,"end":192.865,"text":"你明年的總預算一千六百多億然後你明年卓榮泰院長民進黨政府對於工商請先聽完本席的問題可以嗎不要急"},{"start":194.059,"end":196.883,"text":"第二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委"},{"start":209.343,"end":224.064,"text":"第1、卓榮泰院長念茲再茲強調合龍合所有的工商協競會早餐會都喊話希望合律共存擔心台灣缺電這也是全民所擔心的啊能源是選擇沒有對錯"},{"start":226.067,"end":242.681,"text":"你要用火力發電、核能發電、水力發電、再生能源本期之前就講過了我們支持的是再生能源持續發展我們支持的是減碳我們支持的是能夠讓台灣走向淨零碳排所以嘛你明年的預算1600多億 對不對"},{"start":246.872,"end":250.615,"text":"第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會及所屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術委"},{"start":265.879,"end":267.32,"text":"到底投入多少經費、多少人員、多少計劃的態度?主委,你覺得夠嗎?"},{"start":289.912,"end":295.513,"text":"只要有學者願意投入我們可以增加這是沒有問題的。外界你有接受日本媒體訪問的時候有講到說未來3年每年會編列10億元美金來強化主權的AI那你甚至有講到是說"},{"start":318.579,"end":339.43,"text":"當台灣預期會面對川普新任美國總統的施壓分享更多先進的技術的時候你的回答是這樣的策略符合川普的期望我想請教一下符合川普的期望是台灣利益跟先進技術有可能會被犧牲嗎?不會犧牲那如果說川普先聽完本節目問題好了"},{"start":340.646,"end":355.803,"text":"主委我覺得你本席本來是很期待你但是過去這段時間真的我覺得所有的我們相關的同仁都看到你展現出一點科學人的務實的精神好不好這是本席給你很大的一個期許"},{"start":357.833,"end":382.61,"text":"如果我們現在有強調我們先進的製程落後一代也就是N-1的原則就希望說台灣保有最先進的國外相對來講比較往後一代的這樣的一個原則但如果說未來川普的期待是要打破這樣的原則你覺得我們有辦法堅持嗎我們有辦法堅持來理由是什麼那你如果好好聽我講台灣的"},{"start":385.879,"end":388.86,"text":"及所屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術委"},{"start":401.545,"end":403.067,"text":"及所屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術委"},{"start":416.607,"end":433.143,"text":"對全世界都是有利的好,非常好本席讓你完整表達記住這一句話未來我們來檢驗不過既然如此我想賴政府2025年投入AI行動計畫2.0再加上精創台灣方案總共289億元將近300億元那是不是AI是顯學"},{"start":439.048,"end":464.166,"text":"現在各行各業或各部門都要做AI沒有錯好那主委我想AI有沒有應該就是不要碟床架屋而是有一個綜合的規劃來去推動報告委員因為核心AI技術的研究那當然就是在AI計畫裡面但是它的應用是非常多樣性的一定要結合各種應用的推動計畫共同合作"},{"start":466.087,"end":495.527,"text":"但是有沒有一個主體性是可以來讓各部會去了解說到底怎麼樣運用AI的技術而不是大家如蝦子摸象一樣各自摸索有,我們編列的預算包含在數位發展部在政府推動的部分所以數位發展部可能是一個起頭是不是它是一個起頭好,來主委我特別會提這一點就是因為我們現在看到各部會都有一些亂象就明年很多的預算只要掛上AI兩個字好像它就變成是說它"},{"start":496.888,"end":506.194,"text":"有關國家科學技術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關國家科學技術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關國家科學技術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關國家科學技術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關國家科學技術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":522.566,"end":538.13,"text":"還是數位部有指使勞動部要去做AI智能方案因為到最後我們看到說勞動部自己部本部也沒有做還是分屬他們自己去執行或者是我們現在看到公廣集團要砸3000萬做AI"},{"start":540.714,"end":542.257,"text":"及所屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術委"},{"start":553.442,"end":557.105,"text":"第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會及所屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術委第11屆第2會期教育及技術委"},{"start":575.803,"end":603.123,"text":"主委發展部也好或是我們國科會也好照理講都應該要有一個上位的計畫目標跟方案讓所有部門能夠往這樣的方向邁進而不是你只是美其名所有計畫編一個AI多加AI兩個字你就變成是好像完全不同但是其實換湯不換藥我們編列科技預算當然是協助各部會來執行這些我們以後會多協助他們"},{"start":605.672,"end":629.059,"text":"主委本期還是強調要做就務實的做科學人我們就用科學人角度跟你溝通如果說你要用政治語言的話那我們就會用政治語言來跟你溝通這一點真的請我們的主委好好的放在心裡面以及當我們所有同仁的表率謝謝好謝謝委員好謝謝洪孟凱委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":30,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（9時9分）主席謝謝，麻煩請吳主委。"],["主席：有請吳主委。"],["洪委員孟楷：今天召委有交代一定要準時發言，所以我請吳主委也針對問題回答問題，不要顧左右而言他，好不好？"],["吳主任委員誠文：好。"],["洪委員孟楷：主委，工商協進會前天的工商早餐會，我想這也是國內大家所關心的重點，其中強調一個部分就是希望能夠核綠共存，甚至他們講說，有九成的會員擔心核電歸零之後缺電，超過八成同意核電延役，主委，你有看到這個新聞嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：有稍微瞭解。"],["洪委員孟楷：這有什麼好不能回答的，難言之隱是什麼意思。"],["吳主任委員誠文：沒有難言之隱。"],["洪委員孟楷：沒有難言之隱，好，那就請針對問題回答問題好不好？主委，現在卓院長或民進黨政府針對核能議題強調三個前提，其中一個前提叫做新核能，但新核能的部分不要只是淪為畫大餅的口號，我們想要知道到底新核能是國家認為缺電議題真的很重要、能源議題真的很重要，我們真的有投入相關經費在研究，還是只是以拖待變，想要畫大餅給工商界的朋友一個虛無縹緲的幻想？"],["吳主任委員誠文：國科會在各種潔淨能源的研究一直都是持開放的角度，目前學界的確是有計畫在進行當中。"],["洪委員孟楷：是，本席有看到相關預算，你到底編列多少預算或多少計畫在做所謂的新核能研究開發？還是至少跟國外接軌，也許我們沒有辦法獨立完成新核能的研發，但是至少跟國外接軌，你明年的計畫在哪裡？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們的核能研究編列在自然處、工程處相關的計畫裡面，我們開放給學界……"],["洪委員孟楷：編列多少費用？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們編列的這個預算，整體的核融合研究大概有4,500萬元。"],["洪委員孟楷：你的總預算多少？"],["吳主任委員誠文：總預算是開放的，也就是說……"],["洪委員孟楷：沒有，我說明年你的總預算，兩分鐘前你才報告完，明年的總預算多少？"],["吳主任委員誠文：明年的總預算，科技預算1,466億。"],["洪委員孟楷：1,466億，然後你再講核融合的預算總共放了多少？"],["吳主任委員誠文：這是提出來的研究。"],["洪委員孟楷：不是啦，你針對問題回答問題，我已經講了召委今天嚴格控管時間，所以我要求你針對問題回答問題。你明年的總預算一千六百多億，然後明年卓榮泰院長、民進黨政府，對於工商……"],["吳主任委員誠文：報告委員。"],["洪委員孟楷：請先聽完本席的問題可以嗎？不要急、不要意識形態……"],["吳主任委員誠文：沒有意識型態。"],["洪委員孟楷：不要覺得好像現在遇到什麼問題，就急著辯駁、急著辯解，這不是科學人的態度。"],["吳主任委員誠文：不是辯駁，是希望……"],["洪委員孟楷：我再問一次，清楚明白聽到我的問題。第一，卓榮泰院長念茲在茲強調核融合，所有工商協進會的早餐會都喊話，希望核綠共存、擔心臺灣缺電，這也是全民所擔心的，能源是選擇沒有對錯，你要用火力發電、核能發電、水力發電、再生能源，本席之前就講過，我們支持的是再生能源持續發展、我們支持的是減碳、我們支持的是能夠讓臺灣走向淨零碳排，所以你明年的預算一千六百多億，對不對？"],["吳主任委員誠文：沒有，1,595億元。"],["洪委員孟楷：1,595億元，那你明年核融合的計畫預計研究投入多少錢？"],["吳主任委員誠文：目前編列4,500萬元，因為……"],["洪委員孟楷：比例是多少？"],["吳主任委員誠文：因為必須要有……"],["洪委員孟楷：比例是多少？"],["吳主任委員誠文：比例我必須要算，這個……"],["洪委員孟楷：算不出來嘛！因為可能零點零幾。"],["吳主任委員誠文：你要給我時間算吶！"],["洪委員孟楷：零點零幾嘛！所以這就是民進黨政府對待外界期待的新核能到底投入多少經費？多少人員？多少計畫？的態度。"],["吳主任委員誠文：委員，如果編很多預算沒有人執行，是沒有用的。"],["洪委員孟楷：主委，你覺得夠嗎？你覺得這樣有展現出民進黨政府……"],["吳主任委員誠文：只要有需求，只要我們……"],["洪委員孟楷：你覺得4,500萬是符合需求嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：只要有學者願意投入，我們可以增加，這是沒有問題的。"],["洪委員孟楷：主委，再來，你接受日本媒體訪問的時候，有講到未來3年會每年編列10億元美金來強化主權的AI，你甚至有講到，當臺灣預期會面對川普新任美國總統的施壓及分享更多先進技術的時候，你的回答是，這樣的策略符合川普的期望。我想請教符合川普的期望，是臺灣利益跟先進技術有可能會被犧牲嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：不會犧牲，臺灣……"],["洪委員孟楷：如果說川普……先聽完本席的問題好不好？主委，本席本來是很期待你，但是過去這段時間我覺得所有相關同仁都看到，你展現出一點科學人務實的精神好不好？這是本席給你很大的一個期許。","如果現在我們有強調先進的製程落後一代，也就是「N減1」原則，希望臺灣保有最先進的，國外相對來講比較往後一代的原則，但如果未來川普的期待是要打破這樣的原則，你覺得我們有辦法堅持嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們有辦法堅持。"],["洪委員孟楷：那理由是什麼？"],["吳主任委員誠文：你如果好好聽我講，臺灣的先進半導體製造的技術現在是領先全球，原因是因為我們有非常好的推動環境，我們科學園區的建置、產官學的合作是國外沒有辦法找到的，所以先進製程技術的研究如果不留在臺灣，移到全世界任何地方都不可能比臺灣還更有效率，所以臺灣能夠把先進製造技術往前推動，對全世界都是有利的。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，非常好，本席讓你完整表達，記住這句話，未來我們來檢驗。既然如此，我想賴政府2025年投入AI行動計畫2.0，再加上晶創台灣方案，總共289億元，將近300億元，AI是不是顯學，現在各行各業或各部門都要做AI？"],["吳主任委員誠文：沒有錯。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，主委，我想AI是不是不要疊床架屋，而是有一個綜合規劃去推動？"],["吳主任委員誠文：報告委員，因為核心AI技術的研究，那當然就是在AI計畫裡面，但是它的應用是非常多樣性的，一定要結合各種應用的、推動的計畫共同合作。"],["洪委員孟楷：但是有沒有一個主體性是可以讓各部會去瞭解到底怎麼樣運用AI的技術，而不是讓大家如瞎子摸象各自摸索？"],["吳主任委員誠文：有，我們編列的預算包含在數位發展部，在政府推動的部分。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以數位發展部可能是一個起頭，是不是？"],["吳主任委員誠文：它是一個起頭。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，主委，我特別提這一點是因為我們現在看到各部會都有一些亂象，就是明年很多的預算只要掛上「AI」兩個字，好像變成是它要來推動，但實際上它做的內容可能不一定那麼的AI，譬如前些日子勞動部逼死一個公務同仁，就是因為它掛了一個所謂AI的智能勞動方案，結果反而被人家講說原來它是自創AI專案，而產生了一件憾事，數發部知道勞動部要推動這個AI智能方案嗎？還是數發部有指使勞動部要去做這樣的AI智能方案？因為到最後我們看到勞動部自己部本部也沒有做，反而是分署自己去執行；或是現在看到公廣集團要砸3,000萬做AI，文化部還講說這一定會謹慎，後來我們在一樣的位子詢問公廣的董事長，他講說他是要精進數位轉型，我說數位轉型很好，可是你不要為了喝一瓶牛奶養一頭牛，你為了要做數位轉型，自己去外面開一個AI公司，掛「AI」兩個字就要開公司，開完公司後只是推動公廣集團數位轉型，我想請教過去10年、20年數位進步來講，我們公司難道沒有轉型嗎？有，有轉型啊！所以主委，你剛剛也講了，數位發展部也好，國科會也好，照理講都應該要有一個上位的計畫、目標跟方案，讓所有部門能夠往這樣的方向邁進，而不是你只是美其名所有計畫編一個AI，多加「AI」兩個字，就變成好像完全不同，那其實是換湯不換藥。"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們編的科技預算當然是協助各部會來執行，我們以後會多協助他們。"],["洪委員孟楷：主委，本席還是強調，要做就務實的做，科學人我們就用科學人的角度跟你溝通，如果說你要用政治語言的話……"],["吳主任委員誠文：不是政治。"],["洪委員孟楷：那我們就會用政治語言來跟你溝通……"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們會協同數位發展部。"],["洪委員孟楷：這一點真的請主委好好的放在心裡面，以及當我們所有同仁的表率，謝謝。"],["吳主任委員誠文：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝洪孟楷委員。","接下來有請柯志恩委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":284,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-10","speakers":["萬美玲","洪孟楷","柯志恩","林倩綺","陳培瑜","陳秀寳","張雅琳","葛如鈞","羅廷瑋","吳沛憶","郭昱晴","葉元之","吳春城","林宜瑾","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":241,"meetingDate":["2024-11-28"],"gazette_id":"11310803","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310803_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委員會及所屬單位預算案；二、審查114\n年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院主管行政院國家科學技術發展基金附屬單位預算案；三、審查\n114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委員會主管科學園區管理局作業基金附屬單位預\n算案；四、審查114年度行政法人國家災害防救科技中心預算案；五、審查114年度行政法人國家\n太空中心預算案（僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11310803_00002"}}}