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{\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 628.567, \"end\": 628.707, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 628.707, \"end\": 628.887, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"清\", \"start\": 628.887, \"end\": 629.107, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"楚\", \"start\": 629.107, \"end\": 629.287, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 629.287, \"end\": 629.508, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 629.508, \"end\": 629.528, \"score\": 0.568}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:15,861 --> 00:00:28,488\n謝謝謝謝主席好我請一下這個公平會李主委\n\n2\n00:00:35,878 --> 00:00:56,688\n主委早主委我想今天在討論公平會的這個預算有幾個問題想要救教來第一個這個臺灣隊在前幾天打贏了這個世界冠軍是全國上下都非常的開心但是我們就發現有一則新聞我不曉得公平會有沒有去注意到就是臺北市有一個業者叫喜傑斯\n\n3\n00:00:58,129 --> 00:01:19,111\n他在網路上呢就公開說這個如果他的這一篇貼文按了一個讚就可以折一塊錢那這個累積是無上限折價是無上限折扣的金額是沒有上限的所以呢就被網友發現了這件事那網友在很短的時間之內就開始不斷的去按讚\n\n4\n00:01:21,835 --> 00:01:36,704\n後來這家公司發現他們在很短的時間獲得了1.7萬個讚之後這個公司就在沒有提前公告的情況之下開始不斷的修改他的活動條件內容總共修改了多達18次\n\n5\n00:01:38,405 --> 00:02:05,372\n甚至到網友已經都截圖了等等他說這公司就直接說因為他的官網被攻擊所以這個活動大概都不算未來的這些甚至什麼價格是被批圖的折扣無法依照定價除了你們有沒有去注意到這一則新聞這個我有注意到你有注意到那他有沒有涉及違反所謂的公平交易法跟不實的廣告\n\n6\n00:02:06,550 --> 00:02:27,228\n有沒有在這個整個的消費行為上面涉及到了我們相關的法令誤導消費者拉不當競爭拉這個不實廣告拉有沒有這個你們會不會主動去啟動調查會不會給台灣的消費者一個合理的調查報告或者是一個合理的\n\n7\n00:02:28,081 --> 00:02:28,381\n委員會主管\n\n8\n00:02:44,637 --> 00:03:13,045\n我想這個應該很多網友都會去注意到這件事情嘛很多人都是要蹭著這個臺灣隊的冠軍那當然各式各樣的優惠其實我覺得這個都難免但是如果說自己提出來的優惠在短時間之內改了18次然後沒有任何的公告而且他的那個優惠的條件是越來越縮水甚至到最後他講說他其實是官網被攻擊的話我想這個其實誤導消費者或者是做不實廣告的成分其實是非常的大\n\n9\n00:03:13,745 --> 00:03:40,913\n事實上我們也收到一些檢舉也有十幾件檢舉所以我們也會去了解來主委那我想今天其實很多委員都針對公平會在處理這個併購案或者是多層次傳銷我想多層次傳銷的這個議題其實是在公平會裡頭最常被討論我們看到你們公平會的這個預算你們明年\n\n10\n00:03:41,733 --> 00:04:06,009\n的這個宣傳的費用對於多層次傳銷的宣傳費用只增加了73,000塊那看起來其實公平會每一年都有編列相關的宣導的費用可是主委你會不會覺得你能這樣子宣導而且第一個經費很少成效不顯著第二個你的宣導\n\n11\n00:04:07,301 --> 00:04:31,360\n的成果其實並沒有達到你每一年違反多層次傳銷的這一些違規的案件違規的件數其實還是在不斷的增加當中那113年因為到現在這個是到7月底的統計報告所以到今年年底會有多少件我現在還看不到你們現在還沒送出資料出來\n\n12\n00:04:32,113 --> 00:04:45,126\n但是我覺得就整體而言你在多層次傳銷的這些宣導上面其實並沒有達到你們應該有的效果那你增加了7萬塊我不知道你7萬塊可以做什麼\n\n13\n00:04:46,698 --> 00:04:50,702\n多層次傳銷我們這7萬塊跟過去來比相較於其他的廣泉確實不多那我們在過去因為多層次傳銷的業務這些業者是\n\n14\n00:05:02,816 --> 00:05:03,257\n委員會主管\n\n15\n00:05:18,394 --> 00:05:20,035\n公平交易委員會主管：反托拉斯基金：反托拉斯基金\n\n16\n00:05:41,351 --> 00:05:53,202\n沒有達到你們應該有的目的那感覺上就是在消化預算而已這個我認為在審查預算的時候我們會再提出來跟公平會做討論我覺得你們應該要好好的去檢討一下你這個宣傳的費用應該怎麼花應該要花在哪裡應該要宣傳哪一個部分我覺得這個是公平會應該做的事情\n\n17\n00:06:03,891 --> 00:06:22,551\n我們一方面業者不應該有違法的行為一方面我們也在全省各地區有做宣告我告訴你啦當然是不應該有違法的行為但是我剛剛就講過了嘛會違法的人他還是會違法嘛第三個議題我要請教因為我時間剩下只有幾十秒齁這個剛剛大家都講到UberEats跟Fupenda的這個合併案齁\n\n18\n00:06:23,872 --> 00:06:34,776\n這個是我在你們的網站上面下載下來主委你們剛剛講公平公開但是公平會在針對UberEats的併購案的時候你們大概有608則是上網去表達意見相對比較其他的結合案這個意見表達是多的但是我們無法從網站上面看到這608則的意見內容是什麼\n\n19\n00:06:53,303 --> 00:07:07,594\n這有可能都是你們自己內參但是我們其實你講的公平公開我們其實很希望看到到底這608則談論的內容是什麼或者是說你們在審查的時候其實可以把它做一些彙整\n\n20\n00:07:08,394 --> 00:07:23,880\n讓大家你不必每一則都把文字敘述出來但是你可以讓社會大眾或者是讓評議委員很清楚的知道這608則裡頭討論的是關於哪一方面的贊成的居多還是反對的居多大家提出來的意見是什麼\n\n21\n00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:50,830\n我覺得這樣的所謂的公平公開其實對社會大眾來講是很重要的而且今天立法院裡頭我相信待會也會有很多的委員都會跟您問到這一題那我剛剛查了一下你們的法令你們講這個審查嘛12月19號以前要準播如果不行的話會再延個60天到明年3月以前我其實比較想知道的就是說如果\n\n22\n00:07:51,963 --> 00:08:01,297\n如果你們到最後是不同意他結合但是業者執意結合的時候政府會怎麼做?\n\n23\n00:08:03,527 --> 00:08:31,976\n如果我講的是如果如果我們不同意結合他就不能結合可是他還是照樣結合啊他還是照做啊你剛剛講到說他們其實已經實際上在進行結合的工作了嘛其實審查還在你們這嘛但是實際上他們是不是已經開始在做進行的結合的工作包括人員包括配送包括等等內部的這些行政流程他一定不可能等你準博了之後才開始去做這些行政\n\n24\n00:08:32,916 --> 00:08:34,637\n我們如果禁止結合就不能結合如果他這樣做的話\n\n25\n00:08:59,929 --> 00:09:02,910\n公平交易委員會主管．拉斯基金\n\n26\n00:09:21,315 --> 00:09:45,337\n綜合這個就是在法律上有處罰的規定而且相當嚴格如果你只是處罰而已後續的這些法律效力我想公平會可能還是要先設想在前面有些人會可能有一些公司會覺得說你這個也沒有太大的法律效力我就遣罰一罰就好了我們最終可以命令解散的那些停止營業這是最嚴重的處置所以在這個法律上是有機制去\n\n27\n00:09:46,818 --> 00:10:15,038\n你的勒令解散是解散哪一家?解散UberEats還是解散Foodpanda還是解散他結合的新公司他如果結合的新公司後面改一個名字來他告訴你他不是結合他只是重新創立一個新公司你要怎麼處理?這些問題你們都要想清楚喔我現在只是把這個問題拋出來有可能會發生這樣的狀況這個你們都要先去預先去試想他一定不會是用UberEats的名字或者是用Foodpanda的名字嘛他有可能你要求他解散\n\n28\n00:10:15,678 --> 00:10:29,528\n那他就把這兩家公司解散重新去組成一個新的公司他就沒有所謂合併結合的問題了嘛是不是可以規避掉這個法律上的問題我想這個你們都要去去詳細的去思考要去要要去想清楚啦好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n15861\t28488\t謝謝 謝謝主席好 我請一下這個公平會李主委\n35878\t56688\t主委早主委我想今天在討論公平會的這個預算有幾個問題想要救教來第一個這個臺灣隊在前幾天打贏了這個世界冠軍是全國上下都非常的開心但是我們就發現有一則新聞我不曉得公平會有沒有去注意到就是臺北市有一個業者叫喜傑斯\n58129\t79111\t他在網路上呢就公開說這個如果他的這一篇貼文按了一個讚就可以折一塊錢那這個累積是無上限折價是無上限折扣的金額是沒有上限的所以呢就被網友發現了這件事那網友在很短的時間之內就開始不斷的去按讚\n81835\t96704\t後來這家公司發現他們在很短的時間獲得了1.7萬個讚之後這個公司就在沒有提前公告的情況之下開始不斷的修改他的活動條件內容總共修改了多達18次\n98405\t125372\t甚至到網友已經都截圖了等等他說這公司就直接說因為他的官網被攻擊所以這個活動大概都不算未來的這些甚至什麼價格是被批圖的折扣無法依照定價除了你們有沒有去注意到這一則新聞這個我有注意到你有注意到那他有沒有涉及違反所謂的公平交易法跟不實的廣告\n126550\t147228\t有沒有在這個整個的消費行為上面涉及到了我們相關的法令誤導消費者拉不當競爭拉這個不實廣告拉有沒有這個你們會不會主動去啟動調查會不會給台灣的消費者一個合理的調查報告或者是一個合理的\n148081\t148381\t委員會主管\n164637\t193045\t我想這個應該很多網友都會去注意到這件事情嘛很多人都是要蹭著這個臺灣隊的冠軍那當然各式各樣的優惠其實我覺得這個都難免但是如果說自己提出來的優惠在短時間之內改了18次然後沒有任何的公告而且他的那個優惠的條件是越來越縮水甚至到最後他講說他其實是官網被攻擊的話我想這個其實誤導消費者或者是做不實廣告的成分其實是非常的大\n193745\t220913\t事實上我們也收到一些檢舉也有十幾件檢舉所以我們也會去了解來主委那我想今天其實很多委員都針對公平會在處理這個併購案或者是多層次傳銷我想多層次傳銷的這個議題其實是在公平會裡頭最常被討論我們看到你們公平會的這個預算你們明年\n221733\t246009\t的這個宣傳的費用對於多層次傳銷的宣傳費用只增加了73,000塊那看起來其實公平會每一年都有編列相關的宣導的費用可是主委你會不會覺得你能這樣子宣導而且第一個經費很少成效不顯著第二個你的宣導\n247301\t271360\t的成果其實並沒有達到你每一年違反多層次傳銷的這一些違規的案件違規的件數其實還是在不斷的增加當中那113年因為到現在這個是到7月底的統計報告所以到今年年底會有多少件我現在還看不到你們現在還沒送出資料出來\n272113\t285126\t但是我覺得就整體而言你在多層次傳銷的這些宣導上面其實並沒有達到你們應該有的效果那你增加了7萬塊我不知道你7萬塊可以做什麼\n286698\t290702\t多層次傳銷我們這7萬塊跟過去來比相較於其他的廣泉確實不多那我們在過去因為多層次傳銷的業務這些業者是\n302816\t303257\t委員會主管\n318394\t320035\t公平交易委員會主管：反托拉斯基金：反托拉斯基金\n341351\t353202\t沒有達到你們應該有的目的那感覺上就是在消化預算而已這個我認為在審查預算的時候我們會再提出來跟公平會做討論我覺得你們應該要好好的去檢討一下你這個宣傳的費用應該怎麼花應該要花在哪裡應該要宣傳哪一個部分我覺得這個是公平會應該做的事情\n363891\t382551\t我們一方面業者不應該有違法的行為一方面我們也在全省各地區有做宣告我告訴你啦當然是不應該有違法的行為但是我剛剛就講過了嘛會違法的人他還是會違法嘛第三個議題我要請教因為我時間剩下只有幾十秒齁這個剛剛大家都講到Uber Eats跟Fupenda的這個合併案齁\n383872\t394776\t這個是我在你們的網站上面下載下來主委你們剛剛講公平公開但是公平會在針對Uber Eats的併購案的時候你們大概有608則是上網去表達意見相對比較其他的結合案這個意見表達是多的但是我們無法從網站上面看到這608則的意見內容是什麼\n413303\t427594\t這有可能都是你們自己內參但是我們其實你講的公平公開我們其實很希望看到到底這608則談論的內容是什麼或者是說你們在審查的時候其實可以把它做一些彙整\n428394\t443880\t讓大家你不必每一則都把文字敘述出來但是你可以讓社會大眾或者是讓評議委員很清楚的知道這608則裡頭討論的是關於哪一方面的贊成的居多還是反對的居多大家提出來的意見是什麼\n444600\t470830\t我覺得這樣的所謂的公平公開其實對社會大眾來講是很重要的而且今天立法院裡頭我相信待會也會有很多的委員都會跟您問到這一題那我剛剛查了一下你們的法令你們講這個審查嘛12月19號以前要準播如果不行的話會再延個60天到明年3月以前我其實比較想知道的就是說如果\n471963\t481297\t如果你們到最後是不同意他結合但是業者執意結合的時候政府會怎麼做?\n483527\t511976\t如果 我講的是如果如果我們不同意結合他就不能結合可是他還是照樣結合啊他還是照做啊你剛剛講到說他們其實已經實際上在進行結合的工作了嘛其實審查還在你們這嘛但是實際上他們是不是已經開始在做進行的結合的工作包括人員包括配送包括等等內部的這些行政流程他一定不可能等你準博了之後才開始去做這些行政\n512916\t514637\t我們如果禁止結合就不能結合 如果他這樣做的話\n539929\t542910\t公平交易委員會主管．拉斯基金\n561315\t585337\t綜合這個就是在法律上有處罰的規定而且相當嚴格如果你只是處罰而已後續的這些法律效力我想公平會可能還是要先設想在前面有些人會可能有一些公司會覺得說你這個也沒有太大的法律效力我就遣罰一罰就好了我們最終可以命令解散的那些停止營業這是最嚴重的處置所以在這個法律上是有機制去\n586818\t615038\t你的勒令解散是解散哪一家?解散Uber Eats還是解散Foodpanda還是解散他結合的新公司他如果結合的新公司後面改一個名字來他告訴你他不是結合他只是重新創立一個新公司你要怎麼處理?這些問題你們都要想清楚喔我現在只是把這個問題拋出來有可能會發生這樣的狀況這個你們都要先去預先去試想他一定不會是用Uber Eats的名字或者是用Foodpanda的名字嘛他有可能你要求他解散\n615678\t629528\t那他就把這兩家公司解散重新去組成一個新的公司他就沒有所謂合併結合的問題了嘛是不是可以規避掉這個法律上的問題我想這個你們都要去去詳細的去思考要去要要去想清楚啦好謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝 謝謝主席好 我請一下這個公平會李主委\n主委早主委我想今天在討論公平會的這個預算有幾個問題想要救教來第一個這個臺灣隊在前幾天打贏了這個世界冠軍是全國上下都非常的開心但是我們就發現有一則新聞我不曉得公平會有沒有去注意到就是臺北市有一個業者叫喜傑斯\n他在網路上呢就公開說這個如果他的這一篇貼文按了一個讚就可以折一塊錢那這個累積是無上限折價是無上限折扣的金額是沒有上限的所以呢就被網友發現了這件事那網友在很短的時間之內就開始不斷的去按讚\n後來這家公司發現他們在很短的時間獲得了1.7萬個讚之後這個公司就在沒有提前公告的情況之下開始不斷的修改他的活動條件內容總共修改了多達18次\n甚至到網友已經都截圖了等等他說這公司就直接說因為他的官網被攻擊所以這個活動大概都不算未來的這些甚至什麼價格是被批圖的折扣無法依照定價除了你們有沒有去注意到這一則新聞這個我有注意到你有注意到那他有沒有涉及違反所謂的公平交易法跟不實的廣告\n有沒有在這個整個的消費行為上面涉及到了我們相關的法令誤導消費者拉不當競爭拉這個不實廣告拉有沒有這個你們會不會主動去啟動調查會不會給台灣的消費者一個合理的調查報告或者是一個合理的\n委員會主管\n我想這個應該很多網友都會去注意到這件事情嘛很多人都是要蹭著這個臺灣隊的冠軍那當然各式各樣的優惠其實我覺得這個都難免但是如果說自己提出來的優惠在短時間之內改了18次然後沒有任何的公告而且他的那個優惠的條件是越來越縮水甚至到最後他講說他其實是官網被攻擊的話我想這個其實誤導消費者或者是做不實廣告的成分其實是非常的大\n事實上我們也收到一些檢舉也有十幾件檢舉所以我們也會去了解來主委那我想今天其實很多委員都針對公平會在處理這個併購案或者是多層次傳銷我想多層次傳銷的這個議題其實是在公平會裡頭最常被討論我們看到你們公平會的這個預算你們明年\n的這個宣傳的費用對於多層次傳銷的宣傳費用只增加了73,000塊那看起來其實公平會每一年都有編列相關的宣導的費用可是主委你會不會覺得你能這樣子宣導而且第一個經費很少成效不顯著第二個你的宣導\n的成果其實並沒有達到你每一年違反多層次傳銷的這一些違規的案件違規的件數其實還是在不斷的增加當中那113年因為到現在這個是到7月底的統計報告所以到今年年底會有多少件我現在還看不到你們現在還沒送出資料出來\n但是我覺得就整體而言你在多層次傳銷的這些宣導上面其實並沒有達到你們應該有的效果那你增加了7萬塊我不知道你7萬塊可以做什麼\n多層次傳銷我們這7萬塊跟過去來比相較於其他的廣泉確實不多那我們在過去因為多層次傳銷的業務這些業者是\n委員會主管\n公平交易委員會主管：反托拉斯基金：反托拉斯基金\n沒有達到你們應該有的目的那感覺上就是在消化預算而已這個我認為在審查預算的時候我們會再提出來跟公平會做討論我覺得你們應該要好好的去檢討一下你這個宣傳的費用應該怎麼花應該要花在哪裡應該要宣傳哪一個部分我覺得這個是公平會應該做的事情\n我們一方面業者不應該有違法的行為一方面我們也在全省各地區有做宣告我告訴你啦當然是不應該有違法的行為但是我剛剛就講過了嘛會違法的人他還是會違法嘛第三個議題我要請教因為我時間剩下只有幾十秒齁這個剛剛大家都講到Uber Eats跟Fupenda的這個合併案齁\n這個是我在你們的網站上面下載下來主委你們剛剛講公平公開但是公平會在針對Uber Eats的併購案的時候你們大概有608則是上網去表達意見相對比較其他的結合案這個意見表達是多的但是我們無法從網站上面看到這608則的意見內容是什麼\n這有可能都是你們自己內參但是我們其實你講的公平公開我們其實很希望看到到底這608則談論的內容是什麼或者是說你們在審查的時候其實可以把它做一些彙整\n讓大家你不必每一則都把文字敘述出來但是你可以讓社會大眾或者是讓評議委員很清楚的知道這608則裡頭討論的是關於哪一方面的贊成的居多還是反對的居多大家提出來的意見是什麼\n我覺得這樣的所謂的公平公開其實對社會大眾來講是很重要的而且今天立法院裡頭我相信待會也會有很多的委員都會跟您問到這一題那我剛剛查了一下你們的法令你們講這個審查嘛12月19號以前要準播如果不行的話會再延個60天到明年3月以前我其實比較想知道的就是說如果\n如果你們到最後是不同意他結合但是業者執意結合的時候政府會怎麼做?\n如果 我講的是如果如果我們不同意結合他就不能結合可是他還是照樣結合啊他還是照做啊你剛剛講到說他們其實已經實際上在進行結合的工作了嘛其實審查還在你們這嘛但是實際上他們是不是已經開始在做進行的結合的工作包括人員包括配送包括等等內部的這些行政流程他一定不可能等你準博了之後才開始去做這些行政\n我們如果禁止結合就不能結合 如果他這樣做的話\n公平交易委員會主管．拉斯基金\n綜合這個就是在法律上有處罰的規定而且相當嚴格如果你只是處罰而已後續的這些法律效力我想公平會可能還是要先設想在前面有些人會可能有一些公司會覺得說你這個也沒有太大的法律效力我就遣罰一罰就好了我們最終可以命令解散的那些停止營業這是最嚴重的處置所以在這個法律上是有機制去\n你的勒令解散是解散哪一家?解散Uber Eats還是解散Foodpanda還是解散他結合的新公司他如果結合的新公司後面改一個名字來他告訴你他不是結合他只是重新創立一個新公司你要怎麼處理?這些問題你們都要想清楚喔我現在只是把這個問題拋出來有可能會發生這樣的狀況這個你們都要先去預先去試想他一定不會是用Uber Eats的名字或者是用Foodpanda的名字嘛他有可能你要求他解散\n那他就把這兩家公司解散重新去組成一個新的公司他就沒有所謂合併結合的問題了嘛是不是可以規避掉這個法律上的問題我想這個你們都要去去詳細的去思考要去要要去想清楚啦好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:15.861 --> 00:28.488\n謝謝謝謝主席好我請一下這個公平會李主委\n\n00:35.878 --> 00:56.688\n主委早主委我想今天在討論公平會的這個預算有幾個問題想要救教來第一個這個臺灣隊在前幾天打贏了這個世界冠軍是全國上下都非常的開心但是我們就發現有一則新聞我不曉得公平會有沒有去注意到就是臺北市有一個業者叫喜傑斯\n\n00:58.129 --> 01:19.111\n他在網路上呢就公開說這個如果他的這一篇貼文按了一個讚就可以折一塊錢那這個累積是無上限折價是無上限折扣的金額是沒有上限的所以呢就被網友發現了這件事那網友在很短的時間之內就開始不斷的去按讚\n\n01:21.835 --> 01:36.704\n後來這家公司發現他們在很短的時間獲得了1.7萬個讚之後這個公司就在沒有提前公告的情況之下開始不斷的修改他的活動條件內容總共修改了多達18次\n\n01:38.405 --> 02:05.372\n甚至到網友已經都截圖了等等他說這公司就直接說因為他的官網被攻擊所以這個活動大概都不算未來的這些甚至什麼價格是被批圖的折扣無法依照定價除了你們有沒有去注意到這一則新聞這個我有注意到你有注意到那他有沒有涉及違反所謂的公平交易法跟不實的廣告\n\n02:06.550 --> 02:27.228\n有沒有在這個整個的消費行為上面涉及到了我們相關的法令誤導消費者拉不當競爭拉這個不實廣告拉有沒有這個你們會不會主動去啟動調查會不會給台灣的消費者一個合理的調查報告或者是一個合理的\n\n02:28.081 --> 02:28.381\n委員會主管\n\n02:44.637 --> 03:13.045\n我想這個應該很多網友都會去注意到這件事情嘛很多人都是要蹭著這個臺灣隊的冠軍那當然各式各樣的優惠其實我覺得這個都難免但是如果說自己提出來的優惠在短時間之內改了18次然後沒有任何的公告而且他的那個優惠的條件是越來越縮水甚至到最後他講說他其實是官網被攻擊的話我想這個其實誤導消費者或者是做不實廣告的成分其實是非常的大\n\n03:13.745 --> 03:40.913\n事實上我們也收到一些檢舉也有十幾件檢舉所以我們也會去了解來主委那我想今天其實很多委員都針對公平會在處理這個併購案或者是多層次傳銷我想多層次傳銷的這個議題其實是在公平會裡頭最常被討論我們看到你們公平會的這個預算你們明年\n\n03:41.733 --> 04:06.009\n的這個宣傳的費用對於多層次傳銷的宣傳費用只增加了73,000塊那看起來其實公平會每一年都有編列相關的宣導的費用可是主委你會不會覺得你能這樣子宣導而且第一個經費很少成效不顯著第二個你的宣導\n\n04:07.301 --> 04:31.360\n的成果其實並沒有達到你每一年違反多層次傳銷的這一些違規的案件違規的件數其實還是在不斷的增加當中那113年因為到現在這個是到7月底的統計報告所以到今年年底會有多少件我現在還看不到你們現在還沒送出資料出來\n\n04:32.113 --> 04:45.126\n但是我覺得就整體而言你在多層次傳銷的這些宣導上面其實並沒有達到你們應該有的效果那你增加了7萬塊我不知道你7萬塊可以做什麼\n\n04:46.698 --> 04:50.702\n多層次傳銷我們這7萬塊跟過去來比相較於其他的廣泉確實不多那我們在過去因為多層次傳銷的業務這些業者是\n\n05:02.816 --> 05:03.257\n委員會主管\n\n05:18.394 --> 05:20.035\n公平交易委員會主管：反托拉斯基金：反托拉斯基金\n\n05:41.351 --> 05:53.202\n沒有達到你們應該有的目的那感覺上就是在消化預算而已這個我認為在審查預算的時候我們會再提出來跟公平會做討論我覺得你們應該要好好的去檢討一下你這個宣傳的費用應該怎麼花應該要花在哪裡應該要宣傳哪一個部分我覺得這個是公平會應該做的事情\n\n06:03.891 --> 06:22.551\n我們一方面業者不應該有違法的行為一方面我們也在全省各地區有做宣告我告訴你啦當然是不應該有違法的行為但是我剛剛就講過了嘛會違法的人他還是會違法嘛第三個議題我要請教因為我時間剩下只有幾十秒齁這個剛剛大家都講到UberEats跟Fupenda的這個合併案齁\n\n06:23.872 --> 06:34.776\n這個是我在你們的網站上面下載下來主委你們剛剛講公平公開但是公平會在針對UberEats的併購案的時候你們大概有608則是上網去表達意見相對比較其他的結合案這個意見表達是多的但是我們無法從網站上面看到這608則的意見內容是什麼\n\n06:53.303 --> 07:07.594\n這有可能都是你們自己內參但是我們其實你講的公平公開我們其實很希望看到到底這608則談論的內容是什麼或者是說你們在審查的時候其實可以把它做一些彙整\n\n07:08.394 --> 07:23.880\n讓大家你不必每一則都把文字敘述出來但是你可以讓社會大眾或者是讓評議委員很清楚的知道這608則裡頭討論的是關於哪一方面的贊成的居多還是反對的居多大家提出來的意見是什麼\n\n07:24.600 --> 07:50.830\n我覺得這樣的所謂的公平公開其實對社會大眾來講是很重要的而且今天立法院裡頭我相信待會也會有很多的委員都會跟您問到這一題那我剛剛查了一下你們的法令你們講這個審查嘛12月19號以前要準播如果不行的話會再延個60天到明年3月以前我其實比較想知道的就是說如果\n\n07:51.963 --> 08:01.297\n如果你們到最後是不同意他結合但是業者執意結合的時候政府會怎麼做?\n\n08:03.527 --> 08:31.976\n如果我講的是如果如果我們不同意結合他就不能結合可是他還是照樣結合啊他還是照做啊你剛剛講到說他們其實已經實際上在進行結合的工作了嘛其實審查還在你們這嘛但是實際上他們是不是已經開始在做進行的結合的工作包括人員包括配送包括等等內部的這些行政流程他一定不可能等你準博了之後才開始去做這些行政\n\n08:32.916 --> 08:34.637\n我們如果禁止結合就不能結合如果他這樣做的話\n\n08:59.929 --> 09:02.910\n公平交易委員會主管．拉斯基金\n\n09:21.315 --> 09:45.337\n綜合這個就是在法律上有處罰的規定而且相當嚴格如果你只是處罰而已後續的這些法律效力我想公平會可能還是要先設想在前面有些人會可能有一些公司會覺得說你這個也沒有太大的法律效力我就遣罰一罰就好了我們最終可以命令解散的那些停止營業這是最嚴重的處置所以在這個法律上是有機制去\n\n09:46.818 --> 10:15.038\n你的勒令解散是解散哪一家?解散UberEats還是解散Foodpanda還是解散他結合的新公司他如果結合的新公司後面改一個名字來他告訴你他不是結合他只是重新創立一個新公司你要怎麼處理?這些問題你們都要想清楚喔我現在只是把這個問題拋出來有可能會發生這樣的狀況這個你們都要先去預先去試想他一定不會是用UberEats的名字或者是用Foodpanda的名字嘛他有可能你要求他解散\n\n10:15.678 --> 10:29.528\n那他就把這兩家公司解散重新去組成一個新的公司他就沒有所謂合併結合的問題了嘛是不是可以規避掉這個法律上的問題我想這個你們都要去去詳細的去思考要去要要去想清楚啦好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":15.861,"end":28.488,"text":"謝謝 謝謝主席好 我請一下這個公平會李主委"},{"start":35.878,"end":56.688,"text":"主委早主委我想今天在討論公平會的這個預算有幾個問題想要救教來第一個這個臺灣隊在前幾天打贏了這個世界冠軍是全國上下都非常的開心但是我們就發現有一則新聞我不曉得公平會有沒有去注意到就是臺北市有一個業者叫喜傑斯"},{"start":58.129,"end":79.111,"text":"他在網路上呢就公開說這個如果他的這一篇貼文按了一個讚就可以折一塊錢那這個累積是無上限折價是無上限折扣的金額是沒有上限的所以呢就被網友發現了這件事那網友在很短的時間之內就開始不斷的去按讚"},{"start":81.835,"end":96.704,"text":"後來這家公司發現他們在很短的時間獲得了1.7萬個讚之後這個公司就在沒有提前公告的情況之下開始不斷的修改他的活動條件內容總共修改了多達18次"},{"start":98.405,"end":125.372,"text":"甚至到網友已經都截圖了等等他說這公司就直接說因為他的官網被攻擊所以這個活動大概都不算未來的這些甚至什麼價格是被批圖的折扣無法依照定價除了你們有沒有去注意到這一則新聞這個我有注意到你有注意到那他有沒有涉及違反所謂的公平交易法跟不實的廣告"},{"start":126.55,"end":147.228,"text":"有沒有在這個整個的消費行為上面涉及到了我們相關的法令誤導消費者拉不當競爭拉這個不實廣告拉有沒有這個你們會不會主動去啟動調查會不會給台灣的消費者一個合理的調查報告或者是一個合理的"},{"start":148.081,"end":148.381,"text":"委員會主管"},{"start":164.637,"end":193.045,"text":"我想這個應該很多網友都會去注意到這件事情嘛很多人都是要蹭著這個臺灣隊的冠軍那當然各式各樣的優惠其實我覺得這個都難免但是如果說自己提出來的優惠在短時間之內改了18次然後沒有任何的公告而且他的那個優惠的條件是越來越縮水甚至到最後他講說他其實是官網被攻擊的話我想這個其實誤導消費者或者是做不實廣告的成分其實是非常的大"},{"start":193.745,"end":220.913,"text":"事實上我們也收到一些檢舉也有十幾件檢舉所以我們也會去了解來主委那我想今天其實很多委員都針對公平會在處理這個併購案或者是多層次傳銷我想多層次傳銷的這個議題其實是在公平會裡頭最常被討論我們看到你們公平會的這個預算你們明年"},{"start":221.733,"end":246.009,"text":"的這個宣傳的費用對於多層次傳銷的宣傳費用只增加了73,000塊那看起來其實公平會每一年都有編列相關的宣導的費用可是主委你會不會覺得你能這樣子宣導而且第一個經費很少成效不顯著第二個你的宣導"},{"start":247.301,"end":271.36,"text":"的成果其實並沒有達到你每一年違反多層次傳銷的這一些違規的案件違規的件數其實還是在不斷的增加當中那113年因為到現在這個是到7月底的統計報告所以到今年年底會有多少件我現在還看不到你們現在還沒送出資料出來"},{"start":272.113,"end":285.126,"text":"但是我覺得就整體而言你在多層次傳銷的這些宣導上面其實並沒有達到你們應該有的效果那你增加了7萬塊我不知道你7萬塊可以做什麼"},{"start":286.698,"end":290.702,"text":"多層次傳銷我們這7萬塊跟過去來比相較於其他的廣泉確實不多那我們在過去因為多層次傳銷的業務這些業者是"},{"start":302.816,"end":303.257,"text":"委員會主管"},{"start":318.394,"end":320.035,"text":"公平交易委員會主管：反托拉斯基金：反托拉斯基金"},{"start":341.351,"end":353.202,"text":"沒有達到你們應該有的目的那感覺上就是在消化預算而已這個我認為在審查預算的時候我們會再提出來跟公平會做討論我覺得你們應該要好好的去檢討一下你這個宣傳的費用應該怎麼花應該要花在哪裡應該要宣傳哪一個部分我覺得這個是公平會應該做的事情"},{"start":363.891,"end":382.551,"text":"我們一方面業者不應該有違法的行為一方面我們也在全省各地區有做宣告我告訴你啦當然是不應該有違法的行為但是我剛剛就講過了嘛會違法的人他還是會違法嘛第三個議題我要請教因為我時間剩下只有幾十秒齁這個剛剛大家都講到Uber Eats跟Fupenda的這個合併案齁"},{"start":383.872,"end":394.776,"text":"這個是我在你們的網站上面下載下來主委你們剛剛講公平公開但是公平會在針對Uber Eats的併購案的時候你們大概有608則是上網去表達意見相對比較其他的結合案這個意見表達是多的但是我們無法從網站上面看到這608則的意見內容是什麼"},{"start":413.303,"end":427.594,"text":"這有可能都是你們自己內參但是我們其實你講的公平公開我們其實很希望看到到底這608則談論的內容是什麼或者是說你們在審查的時候其實可以把它做一些彙整"},{"start":428.394,"end":443.88,"text":"讓大家你不必每一則都把文字敘述出來但是你可以讓社會大眾或者是讓評議委員很清楚的知道這608則裡頭討論的是關於哪一方面的贊成的居多還是反對的居多大家提出來的意見是什麼"},{"start":444.6,"end":470.83,"text":"我覺得這樣的所謂的公平公開其實對社會大眾來講是很重要的而且今天立法院裡頭我相信待會也會有很多的委員都會跟您問到這一題那我剛剛查了一下你們的法令你們講這個審查嘛12月19號以前要準播如果不行的話會再延個60天到明年3月以前我其實比較想知道的就是說如果"},{"start":471.963,"end":481.297,"text":"如果你們到最後是不同意他結合但是業者執意結合的時候政府會怎麼做?"},{"start":483.527,"end":511.976,"text":"如果 我講的是如果如果我們不同意結合他就不能結合可是他還是照樣結合啊他還是照做啊你剛剛講到說他們其實已經實際上在進行結合的工作了嘛其實審查還在你們這嘛但是實際上他們是不是已經開始在做進行的結合的工作包括人員包括配送包括等等內部的這些行政流程他一定不可能等你準博了之後才開始去做這些行政"},{"start":512.916,"end":514.637,"text":"我們如果禁止結合就不能結合 如果他這樣做的話"},{"start":539.929,"end":542.91,"text":"公平交易委員會主管．拉斯基金"},{"start":561.315,"end":585.337,"text":"綜合這個就是在法律上有處罰的規定而且相當嚴格如果你只是處罰而已後續的這些法律效力我想公平會可能還是要先設想在前面有些人會可能有一些公司會覺得說你這個也沒有太大的法律效力我就遣罰一罰就好了我們最終可以命令解散的那些停止營業這是最嚴重的處置所以在這個法律上是有機制去"},{"start":586.818,"end":615.038,"text":"你的勒令解散是解散哪一家?解散Uber Eats還是解散Foodpanda還是解散他結合的新公司他如果結合的新公司後面改一個名字來他告訴你他不是結合他只是重新創立一個新公司你要怎麼處理?這些問題你們都要想清楚喔我現在只是把這個問題拋出來有可能會發生這樣的狀況這個你們都要先去預先去試想他一定不會是用Uber Eats的名字或者是用Foodpanda的名字嘛他有可能你要求他解散"},{"start":615.678,"end":629.528,"text":"那他就把這兩家公司解散重新去組成一個新的公司他就沒有所謂合併結合的問題了嘛是不是可以規避掉這個法律上的問題我想這個你們都要去去詳細的去思考要去要要去想清楚啦好謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":261,"blocks":[["邱委員議瑩：（9時31分）謝謝主席，請公平會李主委。"],["主席：請李主委。"],["李主任委員鎂：委員早。"],["邱委員議瑩：主委早。主委，我想今天在討論公平會的預算，有幾個問題想要就教，第一個，臺灣隊在前幾天打贏了世界冠軍，全國上下都非常開心，但是我們就發現有一則新聞，我不曉得公平會有沒有去注意到，就是臺北市有一個業者叫喜傑獅，它在網路上就公開說如果它的這一篇貼文按了1個讚就可以折1塊錢，累積是無上限、折價是無上限，折扣的金額是沒有上限的，所以就被網友發現了這件事，網友在很短的時間之內就開始不斷地去按讚。主委，後來這家公司發現他們在很短的時間獲得了1.7萬個讚之後，這個公司就在沒有提前公告的情況之下，開始不斷地修改它的活動條件內容，總共修改了多達18次，甚至到網友已經都截圖了等等，這公司就直接說因為它的官網被攻擊，所以這個活動大概都不算，未來的這些……甚至什麼價格是被P圖的啦、折扣無法依照定價。主委，你們有沒有去注意到這一則新聞？"],["李主任委員鎂：這個我有注意到。"],["邱委員議瑩：你有注意到，它有沒有涉及違反所謂的公平交易法跟不實的廣告，有沒有在整個消費行為上面涉及到相關的法令，誤導消費者啦、不當競爭啦、不實廣告啦，有沒有？你們會不會主動去啟動調查？會不會給臺灣的消費者一個合理的調查報告或者是一個合理的……"],["李主任委員鎂：因為它的行為……"],["邱委員議瑩：不管是處罰或者是其他的相關處置？"],["李主任委員鎂：它的行為簡單就是說優惠條件越來越縮水，限制的門檻越高，這部分我們會來調查了解，如果有違反我們的法令，當然就會依法去處理。"],["邱委員議瑩：我想應該很多網友都會去注意到這件事情，很多人都是要蹭著臺灣隊得冠軍，當然各式各樣的優惠，其實我覺得這個都難免，但是如果自己提出來的優惠在短時間之內改了18次，然後沒有任何的公告，而且它的優惠條件是越來越縮水，甚至到最後它講說它其實是官網被攻擊的話，我想誤導消費者或者是做不實廣告的成分其實是非常地大。"],["李主任委員鎂：這個我們會去查，事實上我們也收到一些檢舉，也有十幾件的檢舉，我們會去……"],["邱委員議瑩：已經有收到檢舉了是不是？"],["李主任委員鎂：是，所以我們也會去了解調查。"],["邱委員議瑩：好，主委，我想今天其實很多委員都針對公平會在處理併購案或者是多層次傳銷，我想多層次傳銷的這個議題其實是在公平會裡頭最常被討論。我們看到你們公平會的預算，你們明年的宣傳費用，對於多層次傳銷的宣傳費用只增加了7萬3,000塊，看起來其實公平會每一年都有編列相關的宣導費用，可是主委你會不會覺得你們這樣宣導，第一個，經費很少，成效不顯著；第二個，你的宣導成果其實並沒有達到，每一年違反多層次傳銷的這些違規案件、違規件數其實還是在不斷地增加當中，113年到現在，因為這是到7月底的統計報告，所以到今年年底會有多少件，我現在還看不到，你們現在還沒送資料出來，但是我覺得就整體而言，你在多層次傳銷的這些宣導上面其實並沒有達到你們應該有的效果，你增加了7萬塊，我不知道你7萬塊可以做什麼，主委要不要簡要說明一下？"],["李主任委員鎂：跟委員說明，多層次傳銷，我們這7萬塊跟過去來比，相較於其他的廣宣確實不多，我們在過去因為多層次傳銷的業務，這些業者是都備案，我們都有掌握這些業者。再來就是說我們也有傳保會，多層次傳銷這個傳保……"],["邱委員議瑩：其實你不是要去跟……"],["李主任委員鎂：我們一起合作，多元地去……"],["邱委員議瑩：業者做宣傳，會違規的業者，你不管宣傳100次、1萬次，它還是會違規……"],["李主任委員鎂：我們對於其他……"],["邱委員議瑩：你應該是要讓更多的社會大眾，尤其是我們現在在打詐，公平會其實你們的重點是在防制詐騙跟防制吸金的行為納入多層次傳銷，我覺得你的宣傳應該要納入這些東西，但是你的宣傳費用只增加了7萬塊，你剛剛跟我講的，你還是在對業者做宣傳……"],["李主任委員鎂：除了業者還有對民眾……"],["邱委員議瑩：所以我覺得這個其實沒有達到你們應該有的目的，感覺上就是在消化預算而已，我認為在審查預算的時候，我們會再提出來跟公平會做討論，我覺得你們應該要好好地去檢討一下，你這個宣傳費用應該怎麼花、應該要花在哪裡、應該要宣傳哪一個部分，我覺得這個是公平會應該做的事情。"],["李主任委員鎂：是，一方面業者不應該有違法的行為，一方面我們也在全省各地區有做宣導。"],["邱委員議瑩：我告訴你啦！當然是不應該有違法的行為，但是我剛剛就講過了，會違法的人，他還是會違法嘛！","第三個議題我要請教，因為我時間只剩下幾十秒，剛剛大家都講到Uber 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