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\"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 239.095, \"end\": 239.115, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 239.115, \"end\": 239.215, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 239.215, \"end\": 239.235, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 239.235, \"end\": 239.255, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 239.255, \"end\": 239.335, \"score\": 0.748}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 239.335, \"end\": 239.355, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"科\", \"start\": 239.355, \"end\": 239.375, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"學\", \"start\": 239.375, \"end\": 239.516, \"score\": 0.782}, {\"word\": \"及\", \"start\": 239.516, \"end\": 239.536, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"技\", \"start\": 239.536, \"end\": 239.556, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"術\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 239.556, \"end\": 239.576, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 256.095, \"end\": 258.596, \"text\": \"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 256.095, \"end\": 256.115, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 256.115, \"end\": 256.195, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 256.195, \"end\": 256.215, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 256.215, \"end\": 256.255, \"score\": 0.139}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 256.255, \"end\": 256.275, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"央\", \"start\": 256.275, \"end\": 256.355, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 256.355, \"end\": 256.395, \"score\": 0.453}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 256.395, \"end\": 256.415, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 256.415, \"end\": 256.495, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 256.495, \"end\": 256.515, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 256.515, \"end\": 256.575, 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\"央\", \"start\": 257.476, \"end\": 257.496, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 257.496, \"end\": 257.656, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 257.656, \"end\": 257.776, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 257.776, \"end\": 257.796, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 257.796, \"end\": 257.816, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 257.816, \"end\": 257.916, \"score\": 0.77}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 257.916, \"end\": 258.096, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"科\", \"start\": 258.096, \"end\": 258.156, \"score\": 0.658}, {\"word\": \"學\", \"start\": 258.156, \"end\": 258.296, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"及\", \"start\": 258.296, \"end\": 258.396, \"score\": 0.763}, {\"word\": \"技\", \"start\": 258.396, \"end\": 258.576, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"術\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 258.576, \"end\": 258.596, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 282.165, \"end\": 292.511, \"text\": \"其實不能說只有新竹園區91公頃還差一點如果我們硬要把它湊在一塊的話91那中科二林園區的316.66公頃還有未開發土地這個僅南科的各園區總計538.56公頃那這其中橋頭園區單獨還有262.39公頃土地未開發那本席看了這些數據主委是不是可以意味著說台積電其實可能就是落腳彰化二林跟高雄橋頭\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 282.165, \"end\": 282.365, \"score\": 0.69}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 282.365, \"end\": 282.465, \"score\": 0.597}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 282.465, \"end\": 282.785, \"score\": 0.735}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 282.785, \"end\": 282.885, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 282.885, \"end\": 283.026, \"score\": 0.818}, {\"word\": \"新\", \"start\": 283.026, \"end\": 283.166, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"竹\", \"start\": 283.166, \"end\": 284.026, \"score\": 0.757}, {\"word\": \"園\"}, {\"word\": \"區\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 284.026, \"end\": 284.466, \"score\": 0.694}, {\"word\": \"頃\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"差\", \"start\": 284.466, \"end\": 284.646, 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00:00:06,890\n主委,我那天看到新聞也把我嚇了一跳,原來你以前還是少棒的這個王牌投手是吧?\n\n2\n00:00:21,041 --> 00:00:45,916\n對棒球還有熱情嗎?當然有!非常有!但現在本席希望你可以把對棒球的熱情可以轉到對科學的熱情能夠是相當那我先延續一下剛才林倩席委員提的我想這個我們現在國科會有很多對於這些公私立大學研究計畫的補助但是真的不管是哪一項補助案或是哪一個計畫我們看到公私立的這個差距都很大\n\n3\n00:00:47,217 --> 00:01:07,695\n當然我覺得好的研究計畫我們就是要去支持他們但是呢如果我們發現其實絕大部分一面倒全部都只是國立大學那其實你會造成私立大學久了他會覺得說反正其實國科會補助就是針對公立大學那有的時候他們有好的研究計畫的時候就沒有不被鼓勵所以我想私校其實在這麼多年來\n\n4\n00:01:08,436 --> 00:01:34,316\n在我們的教育上面扮演非常重要的角色那我希望其實主委在這點上面我們當然看到國立大學的案子我覺得很棒但私立大學案子我覺得我們是不是也可以用心去看一下有的時候現在很多私立大學表現是很好的可是我們不要因此去磨煞它了所以我希望這件事情很重要因為尤其這幾年少子化我們看到私立大學的生存已經很不容易了如果他們很積極的又想要提出好的研究計畫讓學校能夠更好我們是應該要站在鼓勵的角色\n\n5\n00:01:34,756 --> 00:01:35,677\n第二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n\n6\n00:01:50,324 --> 00:02:11,095\n謝謝委員我可以簡短回答不用你到我辦公室再跟我講就好了因為這件事要聊很久我想剛才提到對科學的熱情上週經濟部長郭智輝部長他在本月的質詢當中他有透露了一件事他說半導體龍頭台積電未來十幾年間每一年要在台灣蓋一座廠你知道這個說法嗎\n\n7\n00:02:12,657 --> 00:02:13,537\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關\n\n8\n00:02:24,296 --> 00:02:48,268\n對但是我們就要像中華隊一樣要有偉大的目標我們才能拿世界第一努力去做那國科會支持的好你佩服他好那我們來看一看除了佩服他以外我們要怎麼配合他這比較重要是台積電每年一場我們優先考慮的一定是進駐科學園區這不用講那這個經濟部在談這個事情的時候這樣的說法是有沒有跟國科會溝通過\n\n9\n00:02:49,079 --> 00:02:50,680\n一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n\n10\n00:03:15,322 --> 00:03:19,284\n及所屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關\n\n11\n00:03:42,876 --> 00:03:43,796\n一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案\n\n12\n00:03:58,274 --> 00:03:59,576\n第三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n\n13\n00:04:16,095 --> 00:04:18,596\n一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n\n14\n00:04:42,165 --> 00:04:52,511\n其實不能說只有新竹園區91公頃還差一點如果我們硬要把它湊在一塊的話91那中科二林園區的316.66公頃還有未開發土地這個僅南科的各園區總計538.56公頃那這其中橋頭園區單獨還有262.39公頃土地未開發那本席看了這些數據主委是不是可以意味著說台積電其實可能就是落腳彰化二林跟高雄橋頭\n\n15\n00:05:12,248 --> 00:05:36,125\n這一部分有很多的條件必須要跟有需求的公司來討論然後還要跟地方政府的配合也有關係因為很多程序要走但是你看目前科學園區符合的土地相加起來大約在580公頃左右你就算排除了土地開發進度跟其他廠商也有需求等等最多大概也可以讓台積電設五個廠\n\n16\n00:05:38,146 --> 00:06:02,417\n我想郭部長所說的未來十幾年一年一場你又這麼佩服他但現在要怎麼樣配合他可以達成我們目前行政院通過的方案包含桃竹苗大細股方案以及智慧科技大南方產業生態系方案我們也同時也在盤點未來在這個方案下面可能可以發展的一些土地\n\n17\n00:06:02,657 --> 00:06:25,790\n以上是土地的問題,那我們來討論。我想除了土地問題要解決之外,用水用電也是一個大問題。雖然郭部長說經濟部他會背駝水電,可是我想部長他連要去什麼菲律賓加海底電纜這種說法都提出來了。不難想像,我們實際台灣用電是非常吃緊的,這點我相信主委你也認同,我們的用電真的非常吃緊。\n\n18\n00:06:27,190 --> 00:06:51,707\n主委你自己也是氣候變遷對策委員會的委員之一你也知道2050的淨零轉型目標明年核電退場綠電進度又是比較緩慢只有增加燃煤燃氣這些碳排基組的運轉才有辦法供應足夠的電可是這又背離了減碳的目標主委您是一個科學人以科學角度要怎麼樣不增加我們的碳排又可以提供充足的電給台積電\n\n19\n00:06:54,212 --> 00:07:14,355\n我們現在在發展新的園區的時候我們也同時會要求一定的綠電的比例接近能源的使用這個目標是沒有改變的那經濟部的確也是朝著要求是要求啊做不做得到嘛對不對要求是一定會要求的我相信郭部長可以做到\n\n20\n00:07:15,250 --> 00:07:16,572\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學技術發展基金附屬單位預算案\n\n21\n00:07:33,010 --> 00:07:53,272\n那國科會曾經在我國地下水資源政策研究報告當中你有指出過說台灣被聯合國列為全球排名第18位具缺水危機的國家可是我們半導體的用水量又卻是極高所以這樣的狀況我看一下我不知道國科會可以提出什麼好辦法來應對主委可不可以說一下\n\n22\n00:07:54,355 --> 00:07:56,117\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n\n23\n00:08:12,317 --> 00:08:13,238\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關\n\n24\n00:08:26,994 --> 00:08:29,056\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1007\t6890\t主委,我那天看到新聞也把我嚇了一跳,原來你以前還是少棒的這個王牌投手是吧?\n21041\t45916\t對棒球還有熱情嗎?當然有!非常有!但現在本席希望你可以把對棒球的熱情可以轉到對科學的熱情能夠是相當那我先延續一下剛才林倩席委員提的我想這個我們現在國科會有很多對於這些公私立大學研究計畫的補助但是真的不管是哪一項補助案或是哪一個計畫我們看到公私立的這個差距都很大\n47217\t67695\t當然我覺得好的研究計畫我們就是要去支持他們但是呢如果我們發現其實絕大部分一面倒全部都只是國立大學那其實你會造成私立大學久了他會覺得說反正其實國科會補助就是針對公立大學那有的時候他們有好的研究計畫的時候就沒有不被鼓勵所以我想私校其實在這麼多年來\n68436\t94316\t在我們的教育上面扮演非常重要的角色那我希望其實主委在這點上面我們當然看到國立大學的案子我覺得很棒但私立大學案子我覺得我們是不是也可以用心去看一下有的時候現在很多私立大學表現是很好的可是我們不要因此去磨煞它了所以我希望這件事情很重要因為尤其這幾年少子化我們看到私立大學的生存已經很不容易了如果他們很積極的又想要提出好的研究計畫讓學校能夠更好我們是應該要站在鼓勵的角色\n94756\t95677\t第二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n110324\t131095\t謝謝委員我可以簡短回答不用你到我辦公室再跟我講就好了因為這件事要聊很久我想剛才提到對科學的熱情上週經濟部長郭智輝部長他在本月的質詢當中他有透露了一件事他說半導體龍頭台積電未來十幾年間每一年要在台灣蓋一座廠你知道這個說法嗎\n132657\t133537\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關\n144296\t168268\t對但是我們就要像中華隊一樣要有偉大的目標我們才能拿世界第一努力去做那國科會支持的好你佩服他好那我們來看一看除了佩服他以外我們要怎麼配合他這比較重要是台積電每年一場我們優先考慮的一定是進駐科學園區這不用講那這個經濟部在談這個事情的時候這樣的說法是有沒有跟國科會溝通過\n169079\t170680\t一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n195322\t199284\t及所屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關\n222876\t223796\t一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案\n238274\t239576\t第三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n256095\t258596\t一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n282165\t292511\t其實不能說只有新竹園區91公頃還差一點如果我們硬要把它湊在一塊的話91那中科二林園區的316.66公頃還有未開發土地這個僅南科的各園區總計538.56公頃那這其中橋頭園區單獨還有262.39公頃土地未開發那本席看了這些數據主委是不是可以意味著說台積電其實可能就是落腳彰化二林跟高雄橋頭\n312248\t336125\t這一部分有很多的條件必須要跟有需求的公司來討論然後還要跟地方政府的配合也有關係因為很多程序要走但是你看目前科學園區符合的土地相加起來大約在580公頃左右你就算排除了土地開發進度跟其他廠商也有需求等等最多大概也可以讓台積電設五個廠\n338146\t362417\t我想郭部長所說的未來十幾年一年一場你又這麼佩服他但現在要怎麼樣配合他可以達成我們目前行政院通過的方案包含桃竹苗大細股方案以及智慧科技大南方產業生態系方案我們也同時也在盤點未來在這個方案下面可能可以發展的一些土地\n362657\t385790\t以上是土地的問題,那我們來討論。我想除了土地問題要解決之外,用水用電也是一個大問題。雖然郭部長說經濟部他會背駝水電,可是我想部長他連要去什麼菲律賓加海底電纜這種說法都提出來了。不難想像,我們實際台灣用電是非常吃緊的,這點我相信主委你也認同,我們的用電真的非常吃緊。\n387190\t411707\t主委你自己也是氣候變遷對策委員會的委員之一你也知道2050的淨零轉型目標明年核電退場綠電進度又是比較緩慢只有增加燃煤燃氣這些碳排基組的運轉才有辦法供應足夠的電可是這又背離了減碳的目標主委您是一個科學人以科學角度要怎麼樣不增加我們的碳排又可以提供充足的電給台積電\n414212\t434355\t我們現在在發展新的園區的時候我們也同時會要求一定的綠電的比例接近能源的使用這個目標是沒有改變的那經濟部的確也是朝著要求是要求啊做不做得到嘛對不對要求是一定會要求的我相信郭部長可以做到\n435250\t436572\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學技術發展基金附屬單位預算案\n453010\t473272\t那國科會曾經在我國地下水資源政策研究報告當中你有指出過說台灣被聯合國列為全球排名第18位具缺水危機的國家可是我們半導體的用水量又卻是極高所以這樣的狀況我看一下我不知道國科會可以提出什麼好辦法來應對主委可不可以說一下\n474355\t476117\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n492317\t493238\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關\n506994\t509056\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n","txt":"主委,我那天看到新聞也把我嚇了一跳,原來你以前還是少棒的這個王牌投手是吧?\n對棒球還有熱情嗎?當然有!非常有!但現在本席希望你可以把對棒球的熱情可以轉到對科學的熱情能夠是相當那我先延續一下剛才林倩席委員提的我想這個我們現在國科會有很多對於這些公私立大學研究計畫的補助但是真的不管是哪一項補助案或是哪一個計畫我們看到公私立的這個差距都很大\n當然我覺得好的研究計畫我們就是要去支持他們但是呢如果我們發現其實絕大部分一面倒全部都只是國立大學那其實你會造成私立大學久了他會覺得說反正其實國科會補助就是針對公立大學那有的時候他們有好的研究計畫的時候就沒有不被鼓勵所以我想私校其實在這麼多年來\n在我們的教育上面扮演非常重要的角色那我希望其實主委在這點上面我們當然看到國立大學的案子我覺得很棒但私立大學案子我覺得我們是不是也可以用心去看一下有的時候現在很多私立大學表現是很好的可是我們不要因此去磨煞它了所以我希望這件事情很重要因為尤其這幾年少子化我們看到私立大學的生存已經很不容易了如果他們很積極的又想要提出好的研究計畫讓學校能夠更好我們是應該要站在鼓勵的角色\n第二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n謝謝委員我可以簡短回答不用你到我辦公室再跟我講就好了因為這件事要聊很久我想剛才提到對科學的熱情上週經濟部長郭智輝部長他在本月的質詢當中他有透露了一件事他說半導體龍頭台積電未來十幾年間每一年要在台灣蓋一座廠你知道這個說法嗎\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關\n對但是我們就要像中華隊一樣要有偉大的目標我們才能拿世界第一努力去做那國科會支持的好你佩服他好那我們來看一看除了佩服他以外我們要怎麼配合他這比較重要是台積電每年一場我們優先考慮的一定是進駐科學園區這不用講那這個經濟部在談這個事情的時候這樣的說法是有沒有跟國科會溝通過\n一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n及所屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關\n一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案\n第三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n其實不能說只有新竹園區91公頃還差一點如果我們硬要把它湊在一塊的話91那中科二林園區的316.66公頃還有未開發土地這個僅南科的各園區總計538.56公頃那這其中橋頭園區單獨還有262.39公頃土地未開發那本席看了這些數據主委是不是可以意味著說台積電其實可能就是落腳彰化二林跟高雄橋頭\n這一部分有很多的條件必須要跟有需求的公司來討論然後還要跟地方政府的配合也有關係因為很多程序要走但是你看目前科學園區符合的土地相加起來大約在580公頃左右你就算排除了土地開發進度跟其他廠商也有需求等等最多大概也可以讓台積電設五個廠\n我想郭部長所說的未來十幾年一年一場你又這麼佩服他但現在要怎麼樣配合他可以達成我們目前行政院通過的方案包含桃竹苗大細股方案以及智慧科技大南方產業生態系方案我們也同時也在盤點未來在這個方案下面可能可以發展的一些土地\n以上是土地的問題,那我們來討論。我想除了土地問題要解決之外,用水用電也是一個大問題。雖然郭部長說經濟部他會背駝水電,可是我想部長他連要去什麼菲律賓加海底電纜這種說法都提出來了。不難想像,我們實際台灣用電是非常吃緊的,這點我相信主委你也認同,我們的用電真的非常吃緊。\n主委你自己也是氣候變遷對策委員會的委員之一你也知道2050的淨零轉型目標明年核電退場綠電進度又是比較緩慢只有增加燃煤燃氣這些碳排基組的運轉才有辦法供應足夠的電可是這又背離了減碳的目標主委您是一個科學人以科學角度要怎麼樣不增加我們的碳排又可以提供充足的電給台積電\n我們現在在發展新的園區的時候我們也同時會要求一定的綠電的比例接近能源的使用這個目標是沒有改變的那經濟部的確也是朝著要求是要求啊做不做得到嘛對不對要求是一定會要求的我相信郭部長可以做到\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學技術發展基金附屬單位預算案\n那國科會曾經在我國地下水資源政策研究報告當中你有指出過說台灣被聯合國列為全球排名第18位具缺水危機的國家可是我們半導體的用水量又卻是極高所以這樣的狀況我看一下我不知道國科會可以提出什麼好辦法來應對主委可不可以說一下\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.007 --> 00:06.890\n主委,我那天看到新聞也把我嚇了一跳,原來你以前還是少棒的這個王牌投手是吧?\n\n00:21.041 --> 00:45.916\n對棒球還有熱情嗎?當然有!非常有!但現在本席希望你可以把對棒球的熱情可以轉到對科學的熱情能夠是相當那我先延續一下剛才林倩席委員提的我想這個我們現在國科會有很多對於這些公私立大學研究計畫的補助但是真的不管是哪一項補助案或是哪一個計畫我們看到公私立的這個差距都很大\n\n00:47.217 --> 01:07.695\n當然我覺得好的研究計畫我們就是要去支持他們但是呢如果我們發現其實絕大部分一面倒全部都只是國立大學那其實你會造成私立大學久了他會覺得說反正其實國科會補助就是針對公立大學那有的時候他們有好的研究計畫的時候就沒有不被鼓勵所以我想私校其實在這麼多年來\n\n01:08.436 --> 01:34.316\n在我們的教育上面扮演非常重要的角色那我希望其實主委在這點上面我們當然看到國立大學的案子我覺得很棒但私立大學案子我覺得我們是不是也可以用心去看一下有的時候現在很多私立大學表現是很好的可是我們不要因此去磨煞它了所以我希望這件事情很重要因為尤其這幾年少子化我們看到私立大學的生存已經很不容易了如果他們很積極的又想要提出好的研究計畫讓學校能夠更好我們是應該要站在鼓勵的角色\n\n01:34.756 --> 01:35.677\n第二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n\n01:50.324 --> 02:11.095\n謝謝委員我可以簡短回答不用你到我辦公室再跟我講就好了因為這件事要聊很久我想剛才提到對科學的熱情上週經濟部長郭智輝部長他在本月的質詢當中他有透露了一件事他說半導體龍頭台積電未來十幾年間每一年要在台灣蓋一座廠你知道這個說法嗎\n\n02:12.657 --> 02:13.537\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關\n\n02:24.296 --> 02:48.268\n對但是我們就要像中華隊一樣要有偉大的目標我們才能拿世界第一努力去做那國科會支持的好你佩服他好那我們來看一看除了佩服他以外我們要怎麼配合他這比較重要是台積電每年一場我們優先考慮的一定是進駐科學園區這不用講那這個經濟部在談這個事情的時候這樣的說法是有沒有跟國科會溝通過\n\n02:49.079 --> 02:50.680\n一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n\n03:15.322 --> 03:19.284\n及所屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關\n\n03:42.876 --> 03:43.796\n一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案\n\n03:58.274 --> 03:59.576\n第三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n\n04:16.095 --> 04:18.596\n一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n\n04:42.165 --> 04:52.511\n其實不能說只有新竹園區91公頃還差一點如果我們硬要把它湊在一塊的話91那中科二林園區的316.66公頃還有未開發土地這個僅南科的各園區總計538.56公頃那這其中橋頭園區單獨還有262.39公頃土地未開發那本席看了這些數據主委是不是可以意味著說台積電其實可能就是落腳彰化二林跟高雄橋頭\n\n05:12.248 --> 05:36.125\n這一部分有很多的條件必須要跟有需求的公司來討論然後還要跟地方政府的配合也有關係因為很多程序要走但是你看目前科學園區符合的土地相加起來大約在580公頃左右你就算排除了土地開發進度跟其他廠商也有需求等等最多大概也可以讓台積電設五個廠\n\n05:38.146 --> 06:02.417\n我想郭部長所說的未來十幾年一年一場你又這麼佩服他但現在要怎麼樣配合他可以達成我們目前行政院通過的方案包含桃竹苗大細股方案以及智慧科技大南方產業生態系方案我們也同時也在盤點未來在這個方案下面可能可以發展的一些土地\n\n06:02.657 --> 06:25.790\n以上是土地的問題,那我們來討論。我想除了土地問題要解決之外,用水用電也是一個大問題。雖然郭部長說經濟部他會背駝水電,可是我想部長他連要去什麼菲律賓加海底電纜這種說法都提出來了。不難想像,我們實際台灣用電是非常吃緊的,這點我相信主委你也認同,我們的用電真的非常吃緊。\n\n06:27.190 --> 06:51.707\n主委你自己也是氣候變遷對策委員會的委員之一你也知道2050的淨零轉型目標明年核電退場綠電進度又是比較緩慢只有增加燃煤燃氣這些碳排基組的運轉才有辦法供應足夠的電可是這又背離了減碳的目標主委您是一個科學人以科學角度要怎麼樣不增加我們的碳排又可以提供充足的電給台積電\n\n06:54.212 --> 07:14.355\n我們現在在發展新的園區的時候我們也同時會要求一定的綠電的比例接近能源的使用這個目標是沒有改變的那經濟部的確也是朝著要求是要求啊做不做得到嘛對不對要求是一定會要求的我相信郭部長可以做到\n\n07:15.250 --> 07:16.572\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學技術發展基金附屬單位預算案\n\n07:33.010 --> 07:53.272\n那國科會曾經在我國地下水資源政策研究報告當中你有指出過說台灣被聯合國列為全球排名第18位具缺水危機的國家可是我們半導體的用水量又卻是極高所以這樣的狀況我看一下我不知道國科會可以提出什麼好辦法來應對主委可不可以說一下\n\n07:54.355 --> 07:56.117\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n\n08:12.317 --> 08:13.238\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關\n\n08:26.994 --> 08:29.056\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.007,"end":6.89,"text":"主委,我那天看到新聞也把我嚇了一跳,原來你以前還是少棒的這個王牌投手是吧?"},{"start":21.041,"end":45.916,"text":"對棒球還有熱情嗎?當然有!非常有!但現在本席希望你可以把對棒球的熱情可以轉到對科學的熱情能夠是相當那我先延續一下剛才林倩席委員提的我想這個我們現在國科會有很多對於這些公私立大學研究計畫的補助但是真的不管是哪一項補助案或是哪一個計畫我們看到公私立的這個差距都很大"},{"start":47.217,"end":67.695,"text":"當然我覺得好的研究計畫我們就是要去支持他們但是呢如果我們發現其實絕大部分一面倒全部都只是國立大學那其實你會造成私立大學久了他會覺得說反正其實國科會補助就是針對公立大學那有的時候他們有好的研究計畫的時候就沒有不被鼓勵所以我想私校其實在這麼多年來"},{"start":68.436,"end":94.316,"text":"在我們的教育上面扮演非常重要的角色那我希望其實主委在這點上面我們當然看到國立大學的案子我覺得很棒但私立大學案子我覺得我們是不是也可以用心去看一下有的時候現在很多私立大學表現是很好的可是我們不要因此去磨煞它了所以我希望這件事情很重要因為尤其這幾年少子化我們看到私立大學的生存已經很不容易了如果他們很積極的又想要提出好的研究計畫讓學校能夠更好我們是應該要站在鼓勵的角色"},{"start":94.756,"end":95.677,"text":"第二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委"},{"start":110.324,"end":131.095,"text":"謝謝委員我可以簡短回答不用你到我辦公室再跟我講就好了因為這件事要聊很久我想剛才提到對科學的熱情上週經濟部長郭智輝部長他在本月的質詢當中他有透露了一件事他說半導體龍頭台積電未來十幾年間每一年要在台灣蓋一座廠你知道這個說法嗎"},{"start":132.657,"end":133.537,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關"},{"start":144.296,"end":168.268,"text":"對但是我們就要像中華隊一樣要有偉大的目標我們才能拿世界第一努力去做那國科會支持的好你佩服他好那我們來看一看除了佩服他以外我們要怎麼配合他這比較重要是台積電每年一場我們優先考慮的一定是進駐科學園區這不用講那這個經濟部在談這個事情的時候這樣的說法是有沒有跟國科會溝通過"},{"start":169.079,"end":170.68,"text":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委"},{"start":195.322,"end":199.284,"text":"及所屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關"},{"start":222.876,"end":223.796,"text":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案"},{"start":238.274,"end":239.576,"text":"第三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委"},{"start":256.095,"end":258.596,"text":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委"},{"start":282.165,"end":292.511,"text":"其實不能說只有新竹園區91公頃還差一點如果我們硬要把它湊在一塊的話91那中科二林園區的316.66公頃還有未開發土地這個僅南科的各園區總計538.56公頃那這其中橋頭園區單獨還有262.39公頃土地未開發那本席看了這些數據主委是不是可以意味著說台積電其實可能就是落腳彰化二林跟高雄橋頭"},{"start":312.248,"end":336.125,"text":"這一部分有很多的條件必須要跟有需求的公司來討論然後還要跟地方政府的配合也有關係因為很多程序要走但是你看目前科學園區符合的土地相加起來大約在580公頃左右你就算排除了土地開發進度跟其他廠商也有需求等等最多大概也可以讓台積電設五個廠"},{"start":338.146,"end":362.417,"text":"我想郭部長所說的未來十幾年一年一場你又這麼佩服他但現在要怎麼樣配合他可以達成我們目前行政院通過的方案包含桃竹苗大細股方案以及智慧科技大南方產業生態系方案我們也同時也在盤點未來在這個方案下面可能可以發展的一些土地"},{"start":362.657,"end":385.79,"text":"以上是土地的問題,那我們來討論。我想除了土地問題要解決之外,用水用電也是一個大問題。雖然郭部長說經濟部他會背駝水電,可是我想部長他連要去什麼菲律賓加海底電纜這種說法都提出來了。不難想像,我們實際台灣用電是非常吃緊的,這點我相信主委你也認同,我們的用電真的非常吃緊。"},{"start":387.19,"end":411.707,"text":"主委你自己也是氣候變遷對策委員會的委員之一你也知道2050的淨零轉型目標明年核電退場綠電進度又是比較緩慢只有增加燃煤燃氣這些碳排基組的運轉才有辦法供應足夠的電可是這又背離了減碳的目標主委您是一個科學人以科學角度要怎麼樣不增加我們的碳排又可以提供充足的電給台積電"},{"start":414.212,"end":434.355,"text":"我們現在在發展新的園區的時候我們也同時會要求一定的綠電的比例接近能源的使用這個目標是沒有改變的那經濟部的確也是朝著要求是要求啊做不做得到嘛對不對要求是一定會要求的我相信郭部長可以做到"},{"start":435.25,"end":436.572,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學技術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":453.01,"end":473.272,"text":"那國科會曾經在我國地下水資源政策研究報告當中你有指出過說台灣被聯合國列為全球排名第18位具缺水危機的國家可是我們半導體的用水量又卻是極高所以這樣的狀況我看一下我不知道國科會可以提出什麼好辦法來應對主委可不可以說一下"},{"start":474.355,"end":476.117,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委"},{"start":492.317,"end":493.238,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關"},{"start":506.994,"end":509.056,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":198,"blocks":[["萬委員美玲：（9時39分）主席，我們請吳主委。"],["主席：吳主委。"],["吳主任委員誠文：萬召委好。"],["萬委員美玲：主委早。主委，我那天看到新聞真的把我嚇了一跳，原來你以前還是少棒的王牌投手，是嗎？對棒球還有熱情嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：當然有。"],["萬委員美玲：非常有，但現在本席希望你可以把對棒球的熱情轉到對科學的熱情，其份量能夠是相當的。我先延續一下剛才林倩綺委員提的，現在國科會有很多對於這些公私立大學研究計畫的補助，但是真的，不管是哪一項補助案或是哪一個計畫，我們看到公私立的差距都很大，當然我覺得好的研究計畫我們就是要去支持它，但是如果我們發現其實絕大部分是一面倒，全部都只是國立大學，時間久了其實會造成私立大學會覺得反正國科會補助就是針對公立大學，有的時候他們有好的研究計畫的時候就不被鼓勵，所以我想這麼多年來，其實私校在我們的教育上扮演非常重要的角色，我希望主委在這一點上面，當然我們看到國立大學的案子，我覺得很棒，但是私立大學的案子，我們是不是也可以用心去看一下？有時候現在很多私立大學的表現是很好的，可是我們不要因此去抹煞它，其實這件事情很重要，尤其這幾年少子化，我們看到私立大學的生存已經很不容易了，如果他們很積極地想要提出好的研究計畫，讓學校能夠更好，我們應該要站在鼓勵的角色，所以會後希望國科會能夠找個時間，主委，您這邊跟我辦公室約一下，這麼重要的議題，我們能夠好好的來研究看看，怎麼樣均衡的讓公私立大學都可以受到國科會的支持，這樣好不好？"],["吳主任委員誠文：謝謝委員，我可以簡短回答……"],["萬委員美玲：不用，你到我辦公室再跟我講就好了，因為這件事要聊很久。"],["吳主任委員誠文：好，謝謝。"],["萬委員美玲：剛才有提到對科學的熱情，上週經濟部郭智輝部長在本院的質詢當中透露了一件事，他說，半導體龍頭台積電未來十幾年間，每年要在臺灣蓋1座廠，你知道這個說法嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我有看到媒體報導。"],["萬委員美玲：看到的時候感覺怎麼樣？"],["吳主任委員誠文：感覺我很佩服郭部長。"],["萬委員美玲：你很佩服他？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是。"],["萬委員美玲：他講得這麼篤定。"],["吳主任委員誠文：對，但是我們就要像中華隊一樣，要有偉大的目標，我們才能拿世界第一，努力去做，國科會是支持的。"],["萬委員美玲：好，你佩服他。那我們來看一看，除了佩服他以外，我們要怎麼配合他？這個比較重要。"],["吳主任委員誠文：是。"],["萬委員美玲：台積電每年1廠，我們優先考慮的一定是進駐科學園區，這個不用講，經濟部在談這個事情的時候，這樣的說法有沒有跟國科會溝通過？"],["吳主任委員誠文：有。"],["萬委員美玲：有溝通過才說的？"],["吳主任委員誠文：有溝通過，國科會負責園區的……"],["萬委員美玲：我們來看，國科會底下有三大科學園區：竹科、中科跟南科，我們現在看到科學園區內總共有台積電12座晶圓廠，其中1座在竹科、1座在南科，楠梓的部分還在蓋，2025才會完工，6座是自有的封測廠，其中1座之前因為有挖到遺址，在南科嘉義園區，也才剛復工。其實現在各地，應該說世界各地，臺灣也是，都掀起了「搶積潮」，都希望台積電能夠落腳在他們的地方，能夠帶動當地的經濟發展。之前我們看到經濟部林全能次長說，台積電設廠要有3個要件，我想這個主委很了解，就是土地是否足夠、供應鏈的體系是否完整，以及人才供給是否充足，其中100公頃以上大面積的土地是首要之務，現在既然國科會都知道它會進駐到科學園區是首選，那我們有沒有去盤點過整個科學園區目前的條件？有沒有盤點過？"],["吳主任委員誠文：目前發展的需求都已經在開發當中。"],["萬委員美玲：有盤點過嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：有盤點過。"],["萬委員美玲：好，有盤點過，對這些數據應該不陌生。根據國科會的網站資料顯示，目前三大科學園區可以出租的廠房土地共有2,063.08公頃，目前已經出租1,903.38公頃，出租率很高，將近93%，也就是說剩下7%的空間，所有科學園區相加只有剩下160公頃左右的廠房土地，而且我剛剛所提的這些廠房土地，還是散落在各個科學園區內，不是一整塊。我們再來看到科學園區的土地，目前開發中的土地，符合的只有……其實不能說只有新竹園區91公頃，還差一點啦，如果我們硬要把它湊在一塊的話是91公頃；中科二林園區的316.66公頃，還有未開發土地僅南科的各園區，總計538.56公頃，其中橋頭園區單獨還有262.39公頃土地未開發。本席看了這些數據，主委，是不是可以意味著說，台積電其實可能就是落腳彰化二林跟高雄橋頭？"],["吳主任委員誠文：這部分有很多的條件，必須跟有需求的公司來討論，然後跟地方政府的配合也有關係，因為很多程序要走。"],["萬委員美玲：好，但是目前科學園區符合的土地相加起來，大約在580公頃左右，就算排除了土地開發進度跟其他廠商也有需求等等，最多大概可以讓台積電設5個廠，我想郭部長所說的，未來十幾年1年1廠，你又這麼佩服他，但現在要怎麼樣配合他可以達成？"],["吳主任委員誠文：目前行政院通過的方案，包含桃竹苗大矽谷方案，以及智慧科技大南方產業生態系方案，我們也同時在盤點未來在這個方案下面可能可以發展的一些土地。"],["萬委員美玲：好，以上是土地的問題。接著我們來討論，我想除了土地問題要解決之外，用水、用電也是一個大問題。雖然郭部長說經濟部會備妥水電，可是我想部長他連要去菲律賓架海底電纜這種說法都提出來了，不難想像我們實際臺灣用電是非常吃緊的，這點我相信主委你也認同，我們的用電真的非常吃緊。主委，你自己也是氣候變遷對策委員會的委員之一，你也知道2050的淨零轉型目標，明年核電退場，綠電進度又是比較緩慢，只有增加燃煤、燃氣這些碳排機組的運轉，才有辦法供應足夠的電，可是這又背離了減碳的目標。主委，您是一個科學人，以科學的角度，要怎麼樣不增加我們的碳排，又可以提供充足的電給台積電呢？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們現在在發展新的園區的時候，我們也同時會要求一定的綠電的比例、潔淨能源的使用，這個目標是沒有改變的，經濟部的確也是朝這個……"],["萬委員美玲：要求是要求，做不做得到嘛，對不對？要求是一定會要求的。"],["吳主任委員誠文：我相信郭部長可以做到。"],["萬委員美玲：你相信他可以做到？好、好，那我想主委最大的任務就是繼續期許他就是了。我們再來看用水的部分，在2021年的時候臺灣發生過大乾旱，各個水庫幾乎都見底了，去年年初的時候南部也再度面臨缺水，國科會曾經在我國地下水資源政策研究報告當中指出，臺灣被聯合國列為全球排名第18位具缺水危機的國家，可是我們半導體的用水量又是極高，在這樣的狀況下，我不知道國科會可以提出什麼好辦法來應對，主委可不可以說一下？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們現在在再生水利用的比例逐漸在提高，而且一直在增加新的再生水廠，這部分也是搭配我們現在的高科技產業，他們也非常的配合，一直在協助政府，也在積極發展水資源的再利用。"],["萬委員美玲：好啦，主委，反正今天本席提出來的，我相信都是你頭疼的問題，像土地、用水、用電都很頭疼啦，但我看起來你的解決方案就是我們信任郭部長，所以我想主委還是要好好想一想怎麼去解決。","其實本席非常支持我們台積電在臺灣設廠，甚至於桃園龍潭的科學園區也是一個很好的選擇，當然剛剛說到的土地跟用水、用電的問題，都是設廠的時候必須面對的，所以主委，我們除了去信任跟期許郭部長之外，我希望主委站在科學人的角度，我們要更加用心想辦法來解決，好不好？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是，謝謝。"],["萬委員美玲：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝主委、謝謝萬委員。","接下來請陳培瑜委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":284,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-10","speakers":["萬美玲","洪孟楷","柯志恩","林倩綺","陳培瑜","陳秀寳","張雅琳","葛如鈞","羅廷瑋","吳沛憶","郭昱晴","葉元之","吳春城","林宜瑾","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":241,"meetingDate":["2024-11-28"],"gazette_id":"11310803","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310803_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委員會及所屬單位預算案；二、審查114\n年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院主管行政院國家科學技術發展基金附屬單位預算案；三、審查\n114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委員會主管科學園區管理局作業基金附屬單位預\n算案；四、審查114年度行政法人國家災害防救科技中心預算案；五、審查114年度行政法人國家\n太空中心預算案（僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11310803_00002"}}}