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\"end\": 679.935, \"score\": 0.785}, {\"word\": \"學\", \"start\": 679.935, \"end\": 679.955, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"及\", \"start\": 679.955, \"end\": 680.115, \"score\": 0.558}, {\"word\": \"技\", \"start\": 680.115, \"end\": 680.215, \"score\": 0.688}, {\"word\": \"術\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 680.215, \"end\": 680.235, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:09,079 --> 00:00:12,601\n謝謝主席,有請國科會吳承文主委好,有請吳主委各位好主委好今天主要是就國科會114年度預算進行審查本席看了一下預算書發現在審查113年度預算的時候呢教育委員會就有針對AI基本法通過多項決議要求國科會盡速研議AI基本法那關於立法進度呢國科會也感謝\n\n2\n00:00:37,836 --> 00:00:56,909\n於今年的7月15日預告了這個人工智慧基本法草案那預告期滿以後會計各方意見應該會加以修改最終在10月22號已經將法案送進行政院但是主委現在人工智慧基本法草案送進行政院也滿月了這個baby也算是這個滿足月了\n\n3\n00:00:58,610 --> 00:01:11,705\n但是一直從沒有從行政院送出請問主委人工智慧基本法是不是已經在行政院院會進行審議了還是有人想要讓他稍微慢一點還是我們應該要快一點預計什麼時候可以送進立法院\n\n4\n00:01:13,041 --> 00:01:30,946\n我們現在草案已經送到行政院那在行政院那邊其實我們還在討論要搭配相關的指引跟作用法完善然後希望能夠盡快送到立法院預計什麼時候\n\n5\n00:01:32,006 --> 00:01:59,222\n目前還要看行政院的審查的這個進度拜託主委你也是政委也拜託行政院我們現在AI每天都在改啦GPT-5可能就要出來啦ElonMusk在一邊打遊戲一邊直播的時候說2026年超級人工智慧要出來了所以我們還在等你們這個外界其實對這樣的一個狀況是眾說紛紜有說產業界對於COCOA的草案版本有意見也有說草案在行政院院會審議的時候\n\n6\n00:02:00,723 --> 00:02:15,189\n方向大改AI風險分級的框架被大幅調整請問主委有沒有規劃利用行政院審議草案的期間安排跟產業進行溝通聽取實務意見剛剛這些外界的捕風捉影是不是真的\n\n7\n00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:24,221\n第二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委第二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委第三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委第二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委第三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n\n8\n00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:50,941\n第11屆第2會議中央政府總預算案有關國家科學技術發展基金附屬單位預算案\n\n9\n00:03:11,846 --> 00:03:17,910\n接下來因為川普當選所以他們對於AI可能會鬆綁管制很可能會讓AI基本法也蠻生長你說明年第一個會期未來行政院版人工智慧基本法草案是不是會往美國鬆綁的方向進行調整要不要預告一下不然產業不知道怎麼辦\n\n10\n00:03:36,894 --> 00:03:37,334\n議員主席議員主委\n\n11\n00:03:57,248 --> 00:04:17,355\n目前美國為了要加速他們是出了殺招說川普甚至要任命AI殺黃這是媒體直接引用的詞是希望能夠快一點能夠統和能夠跨部會您是政委我其實有點懷疑你有沒有想要擔任這個角色AI殺黃\n\n12\n00:04:19,496 --> 00:04:20,716\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n\n13\n00:04:32,455 --> 00:04:50,176\n那你的意見很重要嘛,對不對?你是政委啊,是吧?你們是行政院啊,你們要把東西推出來啊,不然我們怎麼審咧?對吧?我們還是得要尊重科科學的意見不要擔任AI沙皇這種所謂的極端的角色,但是呢,在速度上應該要參考齁\n\n14\n00:04:51,658 --> 00:04:56,803\n所以應該要做更多的溝通不要做這種獨裁的撒謊接下來還要跟主委探討也是跟產業非常有關的這個議題就是兩奈米的製程各界非常的關心主委很特別您接受日經亞洲的專訪說期待川普1月上任以後能跟他合作\n\n15\n00:05:11,836 --> 00:05:31,839\n如果兩奈米製成的半導體廠明年按計畫開始量產,而且量產技術成熟的話,就可以開始規劃在盟國建造最新的兩奈米半導體廠。請教主委,依照專業意見的見解,您認為台積電兩奈米最快何時會赴美設廠?\n\n16\n00:05:34,121 --> 00:05:36,244\n這個要基於邀請我們去設廠的國家提出的條件因為這還牽扯到說\n\n17\n00:05:43,925 --> 00:05:57,992\n我們不是要搞主權AI嗎?我們不是說要有主權嗎?您的看法是什麼?我問的是您的看法。我的看法是這個是對我們有利的啊。什麼時候?所以越快越好,是不是?好,那請教主委。不是越快越好。那你就說什麼情況之下,國科會會同意讓台積電兩奈米到美國設廠?\n\n18\n00:06:04,995 --> 00:06:05,476\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案\n\n19\n00:06:17,986 --> 00:06:38,760\n國會負責我們科學研究的開發以及我們廠商將來在營運的時候各種需求的沒關係你說你說經濟部嘛經濟部長郭志輝說兩奈米要赴美社廠的時候最起碼1.4奈米要落地生產你說越快越好他說要1.4奈米落地生產這不是多頭馬車嗎\n\n20\n00:06:39,921 --> 00:07:06,770\n不是落地生產就是下一代製程研發已經有一個階段可以試量產不是正式量產所以您打臉郭智慧部長的說話對不對你剛剛把球踢給經濟部經濟部有經濟部的看法你現在要打臉郭部長沒有打臉試產試產是研發過程當中非常重要的沒關係主委您是政委你現在要打臉他我支持你嘛我沒有打臉你打臉他嘛\n\n21\n00:07:07,230 --> 00:07:16,939\n我們是討論過的我跟郭部長討論過所以郭部長這個話要收回去11月7號他已經收回了是不是沒關係啦他的立場搖擺我們也都很習慣您的立場搖擺我們也很習慣啦但是拜託不要這樣產業會不知道怎麼辦好不好產業知道怎麼辦產業知道產業知道那我們知不知道產業知道政府的規範我們不知道是不是我們知道嗎我們講的就是政府的規範\n\n22\n00:07:34,611 --> 00:07:42,178\n需不需要透明溝通啊?需不需要讓我們知道啊?我們大院不需要被溝通不需要知道嗎?我們現在公布的這種方案就是我們前瞻製程研發一定會留在台灣\n\n23\n00:07:49,349 --> 00:07:50,811\n兩奈米要在台灣量產三年以後才能赴美設廠。\n\n24\n00:08:08,098 --> 00:08:24,450\n三年是三年是說你從討論開始規劃當地的政府補助土地用地區的我們現在就是自己我們在計算跟產業在討論差不多也非常關係嘛差不多啦所以最快是不是應該2028才能去\n\n25\n00:08:26,391 --> 00:08:28,692\n第三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n\n26\n00:08:43,018 --> 00:08:46,119\n最大最大最大最大最大最大最大最大最大\n\n27\n00:09:12,927 --> 00:09:40,416\n其實呢我們也是支持科技國防的立場defense非常的重要那近期有一個代號這個列銷專案引發非常多的討論但是我們作為科技界的其實呢我們也發現這家公司的背後其實是科技界的神人宅男界的大神這個呢就是開創了VR元年的一個傢伙\n\n28\n00:09:41,656 --> 00:09:44,940\n及所屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術發展基金附屬單位預算案\n\n29\n00:09:55,010 --> 00:10:23,500\n很好,我們今天有這樣的健康的交流這個人呢他是非常非常有名的PomerLockie沒有他沒有現在的VR也沒有現在的Metaverse的產業所以呢這個人呢發展出了一整個新世代的科技2015年登上時代雜誌的封面我們也發現在這個預算書裡面114年度我們的國科會也有一些預算是跟國防科技有關的所以呢我想要說的是什麼呢\n\n30\n00:10:23,820 --> 00:10:43,097\n其實有4.6億有7300萬還有很多我想要跟這個主委您也是政委交流的就是其實我們接下來會有很多的國防的採購或者合作這背後其實有隱藏的一些科技交流的機會我們不要只是去花錢買東西我們要買到什麼\n\n31\n00:10:46,260 --> 00:10:46,720\n及所屬單位預算案\n\n32\n00:10:59,932 --> 00:11:18,093\n科研逐步提升增幅將近1200%所以呢雖然未來我們的這個這個國防不一定真的能夠提高到GDP的10%但是範圍可能會逐年增加所以我們是不是國家科學主委您也是政委能不能夠在國防科技這一塊\n\n33\n00:11:18,814 --> 00:11:20,235\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9079\t12601\t謝謝主席,有請國科會吳承文主委好,有請吳主委各位好主委好今天主要是就國科會114年度預算進行審查本席看了一下預算書發現在審查113年度預算的時候呢教育委員會就有針對AI基本法通過多項決議要求國科會盡速研議AI基本法那關於立法進度呢國科會也感謝\n37836\t56909\t於今年的7月15日預告了這個人工智慧基本法草案那預告期滿以後會計各方意見應該會加以修改最終在10月22號已經將法案送進行政院但是主委現在人工智慧基本法草案送進行政院也滿月了這個baby也算是這個滿足月了\n58610\t71705\t但是一直從沒有從行政院送出請問主委人工智慧基本法是不是已經在行政院院會進行審議了還是有人想要讓他稍微慢一點還是我們應該要快一點預計什麼時候可以送進立法院\n73041\t90946\t我們現在草案已經送到行政院那在行政院那邊其實我們還在討論要搭配相關的指引跟作用法完善然後希望能夠盡快送到立法院預計什麼時候\n92006\t119222\t目前還要看行政院的審查的這個進度拜託主委你也是政委也拜託行政院我們現在AI每天都在改啦GPT-5可能就要出來啦Elon Musk在一邊打遊戲一邊直播的時候說2026年超級人工智慧要出來了所以我們還在等你們這個外界其實對這樣的一個狀況是眾說紛紜有說產業界對於COCOA的草案版本有意見也有說草案在行政院院會審議的時候\n120723\t135189\t方向大改AI風險分級的框架被大幅調整請問主委有沒有規劃利用行政院審議草案的期間安排跟產業進行溝通聽取實務意見剛剛這些外界的捕風捉影是不是真的\n136360\t144221\t第二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委第二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委第三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委第二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委第三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n166240\t170941\t第11屆第2會議中央政府總預算案有關國家科學技術發展基金附屬單位預算案\n191846\t197910\t接下來因為川普當選所以他們對於AI可能會鬆綁管制很可能會讓AI基本法也蠻生長你說明年第一個會期未來行政院版人工智慧基本法草案是不是會往美國鬆綁的方向進行調整要不要預告一下不然產業不知道怎麼辦\n216894\t217334\t議員主席議員主委\n237248\t257355\t目前美國為了要加速他們是出了殺招說川普甚至要任命AI殺黃這是媒體直接引用的詞是希望能夠快一點能夠統和能夠跨部會您是政委我其實有點懷疑你有沒有想要擔任這個角色AI殺黃\n259496\t260716\t三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n272455\t290176\t那你的意見很重要嘛,對不對?你是政委啊,是吧?你們是行政院啊,你們要把東西推出來啊,不然我們怎麼審咧?對吧?我們還是得要尊重科科學的意見不要擔任AI沙皇這種所謂的極端的角色,但是呢,在速度上應該要參考齁\n291658\t296803\t所以應該要做更多的溝通不要做這種獨裁的撒謊接下來還要跟主委探討也是跟產業非常有關的這個議題就是兩奈米的製程各界非常的關心主委很特別您接受日經亞洲的專訪說期待川普1月上任以後能跟他合作\n311836\t331839\t如果兩奈米製成的半導體廠明年按計畫開始量產,而且量產技術成熟的話,就可以開始規劃在盟國建造最新的兩奈米半導體廠。請教主委,依照專業意見的見解,您認為台積電兩奈米最快何時會赴美設廠?\n334121\t336244\t這個要基於邀請我們去設廠的國家提出的條件因為這還牽扯到說\n343925\t357992\t我們不是要搞主權AI嗎?我們不是說要有主權嗎?您的看法是什麼?我問的是您的看法。我的看法是這個是對我們有利的啊。什麼時候?所以越快越好,是不是?好,那請教主委。不是越快越好。那你就說什麼情況之下,國科會會同意讓台積電兩奈米到美國設廠?\n364995\t365476\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案\n377986\t398760\t國會負責我們科學研究的開發以及我們廠商將來在營運的時候各種需求的沒關係你說你說經濟部嘛經濟部長郭志輝說兩奈米要赴美社廠的時候最起碼1.4奈米要落地生產你說越快越好他說要1.4奈米落地生產這不是多頭馬車嗎\n399921\t426770\t不是落地生產就是下一代製程研發已經有一個階段可以試量產不是正式量產所以您打臉郭智慧部長的說話對不對你剛剛把球踢給經濟部經濟部有經濟部的看法你現在要打臉郭部長沒有打臉試產試產是研發過程當中非常重要的沒關係主委您是政委你現在要打臉他我支持你嘛我沒有打臉你打臉他嘛\n427230\t436939\t我們是討論過的我跟郭部長討論過所以郭部長這個話要收回去11月7號他已經收回了是不是沒關係啦他的立場搖擺我們也都很習慣您的立場搖擺我們也很習慣啦但是拜託不要這樣產業會不知道怎麼辦好不好產業知道怎麼辦產業知道產業知道那我們知不知道產業知道政府的規範我們不知道是不是我們知道嗎我們講的就是政府的規範\n454611\t462178\t需不需要透明溝通啊?需不需要讓我們知道啊?我們大院不需要被溝通不需要知道嗎?我們現在公布的這種方案就是我們前瞻製程研發一定會留在台灣\n469349\t470811\t兩奈米要在台灣量產三年以後才能赴美設廠。\n488098\t504450\t三年是三年是說你從討論開始規劃當地的政府補助土地用地區的我們現在就是自己我們在計算跟產業在討論差不多也非常關係嘛差不多啦所以最快是不是應該2028才能去\n506391\t508692\t第三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n523018\t526119\t最大最大最大最大最大最大最大最大最大\n552927\t580416\t其實呢我們也是支持科技國防的立場defense非常的重要那近期有一個代號這個列銷專案引發非常多的討論但是我們作為科技界的其實呢我們也發現這家公司的背後其實是科技界的神人宅男界的大神這個呢就是開創了VR元年的一個傢伙\n581656\t584940\t及所屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術發展基金附屬單位預算案\n595010\t623500\t很好,我們今天有這樣的健康的交流這個人呢他是非常非常有名的Pomer Lockie沒有他沒有現在的VR也沒有現在的Metaverse的產業所以呢這個人呢發展出了一整個新世代的科技2015年登上時代雜誌的封面我們也發現在這個預算書裡面114年度我們的國科會也有一些預算是跟國防科技有關的所以呢我想要說的是什麼呢\n623820\t643097\t其實有4.6億有7300萬還有很多我想要跟這個主委您也是政委交流的就是其實我們接下來會有很多的國防的採購或者合作這背後其實有隱藏的一些科技交流的機會我們不要只是去花錢買東西我們要買到什麼\n646260\t646720\t及所屬單位預算案\n659932\t678093\t科研逐步提升增幅將近1200%所以呢雖然未來我們的這個這個國防不一定真的能夠提高到GDP的10%但是範圍可能會逐年增加所以我們是不是國家科學主委您也是政委能不能夠在國防科技這一塊\n678814\t680235\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n","txt":"謝謝主席,有請國科會吳承文主委好,有請吳主委各位好主委好今天主要是就國科會114年度預算進行審查本席看了一下預算書發現在審查113年度預算的時候呢教育委員會就有針對AI基本法通過多項決議要求國科會盡速研議AI基本法那關於立法進度呢國科會也感謝\n於今年的7月15日預告了這個人工智慧基本法草案那預告期滿以後會計各方意見應該會加以修改最終在10月22號已經將法案送進行政院但是主委現在人工智慧基本法草案送進行政院也滿月了這個baby也算是這個滿足月了\n但是一直從沒有從行政院送出請問主委人工智慧基本法是不是已經在行政院院會進行審議了還是有人想要讓他稍微慢一點還是我們應該要快一點預計什麼時候可以送進立法院\n我們現在草案已經送到行政院那在行政院那邊其實我們還在討論要搭配相關的指引跟作用法完善然後希望能夠盡快送到立法院預計什麼時候\n目前還要看行政院的審查的這個進度拜託主委你也是政委也拜託行政院我們現在AI每天都在改啦GPT-5可能就要出來啦Elon Musk在一邊打遊戲一邊直播的時候說2026年超級人工智慧要出來了所以我們還在等你們這個外界其實對這樣的一個狀況是眾說紛紜有說產業界對於COCOA的草案版本有意見也有說草案在行政院院會審議的時候\n方向大改AI風險分級的框架被大幅調整請問主委有沒有規劃利用行政院審議草案的期間安排跟產業進行溝通聽取實務意見剛剛這些外界的捕風捉影是不是真的\n第二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委第二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委第三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委第二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委第三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n第11屆第2會議中央政府總預算案有關國家科學技術發展基金附屬單位預算案\n接下來因為川普當選所以他們對於AI可能會鬆綁管制很可能會讓AI基本法也蠻生長你說明年第一個會期未來行政院版人工智慧基本法草案是不是會往美國鬆綁的方向進行調整要不要預告一下不然產業不知道怎麼辦\n議員主席議員主委\n目前美國為了要加速他們是出了殺招說川普甚至要任命AI殺黃這是媒體直接引用的詞是希望能夠快一點能夠統和能夠跨部會您是政委我其實有點懷疑你有沒有想要擔任這個角色AI殺黃\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n那你的意見很重要嘛,對不對?你是政委啊,是吧?你們是行政院啊,你們要把東西推出來啊,不然我們怎麼審咧?對吧?我們還是得要尊重科科學的意見不要擔任AI沙皇這種所謂的極端的角色,但是呢,在速度上應該要參考齁\n所以應該要做更多的溝通不要做這種獨裁的撒謊接下來還要跟主委探討也是跟產業非常有關的這個議題就是兩奈米的製程各界非常的關心主委很特別您接受日經亞洲的專訪說期待川普1月上任以後能跟他合作\n如果兩奈米製成的半導體廠明年按計畫開始量產,而且量產技術成熟的話,就可以開始規劃在盟國建造最新的兩奈米半導體廠。請教主委,依照專業意見的見解,您認為台積電兩奈米最快何時會赴美設廠?\n這個要基於邀請我們去設廠的國家提出的條件因為這還牽扯到說\n我們不是要搞主權AI嗎?我們不是說要有主權嗎?您的看法是什麼?我問的是您的看法。我的看法是這個是對我們有利的啊。什麼時候?所以越快越好,是不是?好,那請教主委。不是越快越好。那你就說什麼情況之下,國科會會同意讓台積電兩奈米到美國設廠?\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案\n國會負責我們科學研究的開發以及我們廠商將來在營運的時候各種需求的沒關係你說你說經濟部嘛經濟部長郭志輝說兩奈米要赴美社廠的時候最起碼1.4奈米要落地生產你說越快越好他說要1.4奈米落地生產這不是多頭馬車嗎\n不是落地生產就是下一代製程研發已經有一個階段可以試量產不是正式量產所以您打臉郭智慧部長的說話對不對你剛剛把球踢給經濟部經濟部有經濟部的看法你現在要打臉郭部長沒有打臉試產試產是研發過程當中非常重要的沒關係主委您是政委你現在要打臉他我支持你嘛我沒有打臉你打臉他嘛\n我們是討論過的我跟郭部長討論過所以郭部長這個話要收回去11月7號他已經收回了是不是沒關係啦他的立場搖擺我們也都很習慣您的立場搖擺我們也很習慣啦但是拜託不要這樣產業會不知道怎麼辦好不好產業知道怎麼辦產業知道產業知道那我們知不知道產業知道政府的規範我們不知道是不是我們知道嗎我們講的就是政府的規範\n需不需要透明溝通啊?需不需要讓我們知道啊?我們大院不需要被溝通不需要知道嗎?我們現在公布的這種方案就是我們前瞻製程研發一定會留在台灣\n兩奈米要在台灣量產三年以後才能赴美設廠。\n三年是三年是說你從討論開始規劃當地的政府補助土地用地區的我們現在就是自己我們在計算跟產業在討論差不多也非常關係嘛差不多啦所以最快是不是應該2028才能去\n第三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n最大最大最大最大最大最大最大最大最大\n其實呢我們也是支持科技國防的立場defense非常的重要那近期有一個代號這個列銷專案引發非常多的討論但是我們作為科技界的其實呢我們也發現這家公司的背後其實是科技界的神人宅男界的大神這個呢就是開創了VR元年的一個傢伙\n及所屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術發展基金附屬單位預算案\n很好,我們今天有這樣的健康的交流這個人呢他是非常非常有名的Pomer Lockie沒有他沒有現在的VR也沒有現在的Metaverse的產業所以呢這個人呢發展出了一整個新世代的科技2015年登上時代雜誌的封面我們也發現在這個預算書裡面114年度我們的國科會也有一些預算是跟國防科技有關的所以呢我想要說的是什麼呢\n其實有4.6億有7300萬還有很多我想要跟這個主委您也是政委交流的就是其實我們接下來會有很多的國防的採購或者合作這背後其實有隱藏的一些科技交流的機會我們不要只是去花錢買東西我們要買到什麼\n及所屬單位預算案\n科研逐步提升增幅將近1200%所以呢雖然未來我們的這個這個國防不一定真的能夠提高到GDP的10%但是範圍可能會逐年增加所以我們是不是國家科學主委您也是政委能不能夠在國防科技這一塊\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.079 --> 00:12.601\n謝謝主席,有請國科會吳承文主委好,有請吳主委各位好主委好今天主要是就國科會114年度預算進行審查本席看了一下預算書發現在審查113年度預算的時候呢教育委員會就有針對AI基本法通過多項決議要求國科會盡速研議AI基本法那關於立法進度呢國科會也感謝\n\n00:37.836 --> 00:56.909\n於今年的7月15日預告了這個人工智慧基本法草案那預告期滿以後會計各方意見應該會加以修改最終在10月22號已經將法案送進行政院但是主委現在人工智慧基本法草案送進行政院也滿月了這個baby也算是這個滿足月了\n\n00:58.610 --> 01:11.705\n但是一直從沒有從行政院送出請問主委人工智慧基本法是不是已經在行政院院會進行審議了還是有人想要讓他稍微慢一點還是我們應該要快一點預計什麼時候可以送進立法院\n\n01:13.041 --> 01:30.946\n我們現在草案已經送到行政院那在行政院那邊其實我們還在討論要搭配相關的指引跟作用法完善然後希望能夠盡快送到立法院預計什麼時候\n\n01:32.006 --> 01:59.222\n目前還要看行政院的審查的這個進度拜託主委你也是政委也拜託行政院我們現在AI每天都在改啦GPT-5可能就要出來啦ElonMusk在一邊打遊戲一邊直播的時候說2026年超級人工智慧要出來了所以我們還在等你們這個外界其實對這樣的一個狀況是眾說紛紜有說產業界對於COCOA的草案版本有意見也有說草案在行政院院會審議的時候\n\n02:00.723 --> 02:15.189\n方向大改AI風險分級的框架被大幅調整請問主委有沒有規劃利用行政院審議草案的期間安排跟產業進行溝通聽取實務意見剛剛這些外界的捕風捉影是不是真的\n\n02:16.360 --> 02:24.221\n第二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委第二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委第三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委第二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委第三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n\n02:46.240 --> 02:50.941\n第11屆第2會議中央政府總預算案有關國家科學技術發展基金附屬單位預算案\n\n03:11.846 --> 03:17.910\n接下來因為川普當選所以他們對於AI可能會鬆綁管制很可能會讓AI基本法也蠻生長你說明年第一個會期未來行政院版人工智慧基本法草案是不是會往美國鬆綁的方向進行調整要不要預告一下不然產業不知道怎麼辦\n\n03:36.894 --> 03:37.334\n議員主席議員主委\n\n03:57.248 --> 04:17.355\n目前美國為了要加速他們是出了殺招說川普甚至要任命AI殺黃這是媒體直接引用的詞是希望能夠快一點能夠統和能夠跨部會您是政委我其實有點懷疑你有沒有想要擔任這個角色AI殺黃\n\n04:19.496 --> 04:20.716\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n\n04:32.455 --> 04:50.176\n那你的意見很重要嘛,對不對?你是政委啊,是吧?你們是行政院啊,你們要把東西推出來啊,不然我們怎麼審咧?對吧?我們還是得要尊重科科學的意見不要擔任AI沙皇這種所謂的極端的角色,但是呢,在速度上應該要參考齁\n\n04:51.658 --> 04:56.803\n所以應該要做更多的溝通不要做這種獨裁的撒謊接下來還要跟主委探討也是跟產業非常有關的這個議題就是兩奈米的製程各界非常的關心主委很特別您接受日經亞洲的專訪說期待川普1月上任以後能跟他合作\n\n05:11.836 --> 05:31.839\n如果兩奈米製成的半導體廠明年按計畫開始量產,而且量產技術成熟的話,就可以開始規劃在盟國建造最新的兩奈米半導體廠。請教主委,依照專業意見的見解,您認為台積電兩奈米最快何時會赴美設廠?\n\n05:34.121 --> 05:36.244\n這個要基於邀請我們去設廠的國家提出的條件因為這還牽扯到說\n\n05:43.925 --> 05:57.992\n我們不是要搞主權AI嗎?我們不是說要有主權嗎?您的看法是什麼?我問的是您的看法。我的看法是這個是對我們有利的啊。什麼時候?所以越快越好,是不是?好,那請教主委。不是越快越好。那你就說什麼情況之下,國科會會同意讓台積電兩奈米到美國設廠?\n\n06:04.995 --> 06:05.476\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案\n\n06:17.986 --> 06:38.760\n國會負責我們科學研究的開發以及我們廠商將來在營運的時候各種需求的沒關係你說你說經濟部嘛經濟部長郭志輝說兩奈米要赴美社廠的時候最起碼1.4奈米要落地生產你說越快越好他說要1.4奈米落地生產這不是多頭馬車嗎\n\n06:39.921 --> 07:06.770\n不是落地生產就是下一代製程研發已經有一個階段可以試量產不是正式量產所以您打臉郭智慧部長的說話對不對你剛剛把球踢給經濟部經濟部有經濟部的看法你現在要打臉郭部長沒有打臉試產試產是研發過程當中非常重要的沒關係主委您是政委你現在要打臉他我支持你嘛我沒有打臉你打臉他嘛\n\n07:07.230 --> 07:16.939\n我們是討論過的我跟郭部長討論過所以郭部長這個話要收回去11月7號他已經收回了是不是沒關係啦他的立場搖擺我們也都很習慣您的立場搖擺我們也很習慣啦但是拜託不要這樣產業會不知道怎麼辦好不好產業知道怎麼辦產業知道產業知道那我們知不知道產業知道政府的規範我們不知道是不是我們知道嗎我們講的就是政府的規範\n\n07:34.611 --> 07:42.178\n需不需要透明溝通啊?需不需要讓我們知道啊?我們大院不需要被溝通不需要知道嗎?我們現在公布的這種方案就是我們前瞻製程研發一定會留在台灣\n\n07:49.349 --> 07:50.811\n兩奈米要在台灣量產三年以後才能赴美設廠。\n\n08:08.098 --> 08:24.450\n三年是三年是說你從討論開始規劃當地的政府補助土地用地區的我們現在就是自己我們在計算跟產業在討論差不多也非常關係嘛差不多啦所以最快是不是應該2028才能去\n\n08:26.391 --> 08:28.692\n第三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n\n08:43.018 --> 08:46.119\n最大最大最大最大最大最大最大最大最大\n\n09:12.927 --> 09:40.416\n其實呢我們也是支持科技國防的立場defense非常的重要那近期有一個代號這個列銷專案引發非常多的討論但是我們作為科技界的其實呢我們也發現這家公司的背後其實是科技界的神人宅男界的大神這個呢就是開創了VR元年的一個傢伙\n\n09:41.656 --> 09:44.940\n及所屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術發展基金附屬單位預算案\n\n09:55.010 --> 10:23.500\n很好,我們今天有這樣的健康的交流這個人呢他是非常非常有名的PomerLockie沒有他沒有現在的VR也沒有現在的Metaverse的產業所以呢這個人呢發展出了一整個新世代的科技2015年登上時代雜誌的封面我們也發現在這個預算書裡面114年度我們的國科會也有一些預算是跟國防科技有關的所以呢我想要說的是什麼呢\n\n10:23.820 --> 10:43.097\n其實有4.6億有7300萬還有很多我想要跟這個主委您也是政委交流的就是其實我們接下來會有很多的國防的採購或者合作這背後其實有隱藏的一些科技交流的機會我們不要只是去花錢買東西我們要買到什麼\n\n10:46.260 --> 10:46.720\n及所屬單位預算案\n\n10:59.932 --> 11:18.093\n科研逐步提升增幅將近1200%所以呢雖然未來我們的這個這個國防不一定真的能夠提高到GDP的10%但是範圍可能會逐年增加所以我們是不是國家科學主委您也是政委能不能夠在國防科技這一塊\n\n11:18.814 --> 11:20.235\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.079,"end":12.601,"text":"謝謝主席,有請國科會吳承文主委好,有請吳主委各位好主委好今天主要是就國科會114年度預算進行審查本席看了一下預算書發現在審查113年度預算的時候呢教育委員會就有針對AI基本法通過多項決議要求國科會盡速研議AI基本法那關於立法進度呢國科會也感謝"},{"start":37.836,"end":56.909,"text":"於今年的7月15日預告了這個人工智慧基本法草案那預告期滿以後會計各方意見應該會加以修改最終在10月22號已經將法案送進行政院但是主委現在人工智慧基本法草案送進行政院也滿月了這個baby也算是這個滿足月了"},{"start":58.61,"end":71.705,"text":"但是一直從沒有從行政院送出請問主委人工智慧基本法是不是已經在行政院院會進行審議了還是有人想要讓他稍微慢一點還是我們應該要快一點預計什麼時候可以送進立法院"},{"start":73.041,"end":90.946,"text":"我們現在草案已經送到行政院那在行政院那邊其實我們還在討論要搭配相關的指引跟作用法完善然後希望能夠盡快送到立法院預計什麼時候"},{"start":92.006,"end":119.222,"text":"目前還要看行政院的審查的這個進度拜託主委你也是政委也拜託行政院我們現在AI每天都在改啦GPT-5可能就要出來啦Elon Musk在一邊打遊戲一邊直播的時候說2026年超級人工智慧要出來了所以我們還在等你們這個外界其實對這樣的一個狀況是眾說紛紜有說產業界對於COCOA的草案版本有意見也有說草案在行政院院會審議的時候"},{"start":120.723,"end":135.189,"text":"方向大改AI風險分級的框架被大幅調整請問主委有沒有規劃利用行政院審議草案的期間安排跟產業進行溝通聽取實務意見剛剛這些外界的捕風捉影是不是真的"},{"start":136.36,"end":144.221,"text":"第二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委第二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委第三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委第二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委第三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委"},{"start":166.24,"end":170.941,"text":"第11屆第2會議中央政府總預算案有關國家科學技術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":191.846,"end":197.91,"text":"接下來因為川普當選所以他們對於AI可能會鬆綁管制很可能會讓AI基本法也蠻生長你說明年第一個會期未來行政院版人工智慧基本法草案是不是會往美國鬆綁的方向進行調整要不要預告一下不然產業不知道怎麼辦"},{"start":216.894,"end":217.334,"text":"議員主席議員主委"},{"start":237.248,"end":257.355,"text":"目前美國為了要加速他們是出了殺招說川普甚至要任命AI殺黃這是媒體直接引用的詞是希望能夠快一點能夠統和能夠跨部會您是政委我其實有點懷疑你有沒有想要擔任這個角色AI殺黃"},{"start":259.496,"end":260.716,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委"},{"start":272.455,"end":290.176,"text":"那你的意見很重要嘛,對不對?你是政委啊,是吧?你們是行政院啊,你們要把東西推出來啊,不然我們怎麼審咧?對吧?我們還是得要尊重科科學的意見不要擔任AI沙皇這種所謂的極端的角色,但是呢,在速度上應該要參考齁"},{"start":291.658,"end":296.803,"text":"所以應該要做更多的溝通不要做這種獨裁的撒謊接下來還要跟主委探討也是跟產業非常有關的這個議題就是兩奈米的製程各界非常的關心主委很特別您接受日經亞洲的專訪說期待川普1月上任以後能跟他合作"},{"start":311.836,"end":331.839,"text":"如果兩奈米製成的半導體廠明年按計畫開始量產,而且量產技術成熟的話,就可以開始規劃在盟國建造最新的兩奈米半導體廠。請教主委,依照專業意見的見解,您認為台積電兩奈米最快何時會赴美設廠?"},{"start":334.121,"end":336.244,"text":"這個要基於邀請我們去設廠的國家提出的條件因為這還牽扯到說"},{"start":343.925,"end":357.992,"text":"我們不是要搞主權AI嗎?我們不是說要有主權嗎?您的看法是什麼?我問的是您的看法。我的看法是這個是對我們有利的啊。什麼時候?所以越快越好,是不是?好,那請教主委。不是越快越好。那你就說什麼情況之下,國科會會同意讓台積電兩奈米到美國設廠?"},{"start":364.995,"end":365.476,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案"},{"start":377.986,"end":398.76,"text":"國會負責我們科學研究的開發以及我們廠商將來在營運的時候各種需求的沒關係你說你說經濟部嘛經濟部長郭志輝說兩奈米要赴美社廠的時候最起碼1.4奈米要落地生產你說越快越好他說要1.4奈米落地生產這不是多頭馬車嗎"},{"start":399.921,"end":426.77,"text":"不是落地生產就是下一代製程研發已經有一個階段可以試量產不是正式量產所以您打臉郭智慧部長的說話對不對你剛剛把球踢給經濟部經濟部有經濟部的看法你現在要打臉郭部長沒有打臉試產試產是研發過程當中非常重要的沒關係主委您是政委你現在要打臉他我支持你嘛我沒有打臉你打臉他嘛"},{"start":427.23,"end":436.939,"text":"我們是討論過的我跟郭部長討論過所以郭部長這個話要收回去11月7號他已經收回了是不是沒關係啦他的立場搖擺我們也都很習慣您的立場搖擺我們也很習慣啦但是拜託不要這樣產業會不知道怎麼辦好不好產業知道怎麼辦產業知道產業知道那我們知不知道產業知道政府的規範我們不知道是不是我們知道嗎我們講的就是政府的規範"},{"start":454.611,"end":462.178,"text":"需不需要透明溝通啊?需不需要讓我們知道啊?我們大院不需要被溝通不需要知道嗎?我們現在公布的這種方案就是我們前瞻製程研發一定會留在台灣"},{"start":469.349,"end":470.811,"text":"兩奈米要在台灣量產三年以後才能赴美設廠。"},{"start":488.098,"end":504.45,"text":"三年是三年是說你從討論開始規劃當地的政府補助土地用地區的我們現在就是自己我們在計算跟產業在討論差不多也非常關係嘛差不多啦所以最快是不是應該2028才能去"},{"start":506.391,"end":508.692,"text":"第三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委"},{"start":523.018,"end":526.119,"text":"最大最大最大最大最大最大最大最大最大"},{"start":552.927,"end":580.416,"text":"其實呢我們也是支持科技國防的立場defense非常的重要那近期有一個代號這個列銷專案引發非常多的討論但是我們作為科技界的其實呢我們也發現這家公司的背後其實是科技界的神人宅男界的大神這個呢就是開創了VR元年的一個傢伙"},{"start":581.656,"end":584.94,"text":"及所屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":595.01,"end":623.5,"text":"很好,我們今天有這樣的健康的交流這個人呢他是非常非常有名的Pomer Lockie沒有他沒有現在的VR也沒有現在的Metaverse的產業所以呢這個人呢發展出了一整個新世代的科技2015年登上時代雜誌的封面我們也發現在這個預算書裡面114年度我們的國科會也有一些預算是跟國防科技有關的所以呢我想要說的是什麼呢"},{"start":623.82,"end":643.097,"text":"其實有4.6億有7300萬還有很多我想要跟這個主委您也是政委交流的就是其實我們接下來會有很多的國防的採購或者合作這背後其實有隱藏的一些科技交流的機會我們不要只是去花錢買東西我們要買到什麼"},{"start":646.26,"end":646.72,"text":"及所屬單位預算案"},{"start":659.932,"end":678.093,"text":"科研逐步提升增幅將近1200%所以呢雖然未來我們的這個這個國防不一定真的能夠提高到GDP的10%但是範圍可能會逐年增加所以我們是不是國家科學主委您也是政委能不能夠在國防科技這一塊"},{"start":678.814,"end":680.235,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":342,"blocks":[["葛委員如鈞：（10時16分）謝謝主席，有請國科會吳誠文主委。"],["主席：有請吳主委。"],["吳主任委員誠文：葛委員好。"],["葛委員如鈞：主委好。今天主要是就國科會114年度預算進行審查，本席看了一下預算書，發現在審查113年度預算的時候，教文委員會就有針對AI基本法通過多項決議，要求國科會儘速研議AI基本法。關於其立法進度，也感謝國科會於今年的7月15日預告了人工智慧基本法草案，預告期滿以後，匯集各方意見應該會加以修改啦，最終在10月22號已經將法案送進行政院。但是主委，現在人工智慧基本法草案送進行政院也滿月了，這個baby也算是滿足月了，但是一直沒有從行政院送出，請問主委，人工智慧基本法是不是已經在行政院院會進行審議了？還是有人想要讓它稍微慢一點，還是我們應該要快一點，預計什麼時候可以送進立法院？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們現在草案已經送到行政院，在行政院那邊，其實我們還在討論要搭配相關的指引跟作用法完善，希望能夠儘快送到立法院來。"],["葛委員如鈞：預計什麼時候？"],["吳主任委員誠文：目前還要看行政院審查的進度。"],["葛委員如鈞：拜託！主委，您也是政委，也拜託行政院，因為現在AI每天都在改，GPT5可能就要出來了，Elon Musk在一邊打遊戲，一邊直播的時候說「2026年超級人工智慧要出來了」，所以我們還在等你們這個草案，外界其實對這樣的狀況是眾說紛紜，有說產業界對於國科會的草案版本有意見，也有說草案在行政院院會審議的時候，方向大改，AI風險分級的框架被大幅調整，請問主委，有沒有規劃利用行政院審議草案的期間，安排跟產業進行溝通，聽取實務意見？剛剛這些外界的捕風捉影是不是真的？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們跟外界的溝通從來沒有中斷過，包括在行政院的這個層級以及……"],["葛委員如鈞：方向有沒有大改？"],["吳主任委員誠文：方向沒有大改。"],["葛委員如鈞：風險層級有沒有劃分？有沒有大幅調整？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們是把歐盟的風險分級，跟美國的分類，把它整合在一起……"],["葛委員如鈞：做balance是不是？做平均？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是。"],["葛委員如鈞：那到底什麼時候可以平均完呢？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們現在已經進行差不多了，目前正在針對各部會的作用法跟指引做盤點，盤點完……"],["葛委員如鈞：3個月？2個月？"],["吳主任委員誠文：這個要看，因為行政院現在我們在……"],["葛委員如鈞：完全沒有？我們的AI內閣對AI基本法，完全沒有時間表啦，是不是？是不是，政委。"],["吳主任委員誠文：應該最慢在明年的第一個會期也許可以……"],["葛委員如鈞：好啦，雖然這真的有點慢，但希望加油啦。接下來因為川普當選了，所以他們對於AI可能會鬆綁管制，很可能會讓AI基本法野蠻生長，您說明年第一個會期可能會送來，那未來行政院版的人工智慧基本法草案，是不是會往美國鬆綁的方向進行調整啊？要不要預告一下？不然產業不知道怎麼辦啊。"],["吳主任委員誠文：我說我們儘量在，希望明年能夠順利啦，但是大家也都知道，科技的發展一直在往前走嘛，所以這種討論一定是沒完沒了啦，所以我們一定會有一個階段性的，依照社會的需求趕快……"],["葛委員如鈞：主委，我必須跟您交換一下意見，目前美國為了要加速，他們是出了殺招，說川普甚至要任命「AI沙皇」，這是媒體直接引用的詞，是希望能夠快一點、能夠統合、能夠跨部會，您是政委，我其實有點懷疑你有沒有想要擔任「AI沙皇」這個角色，沙皇可以說好，也可以說不好，好的部分是，你如果有想法，你就大力加速的推動，不好是什麼呢？所有東西都卡在你這裡。"],["吳主任委員誠文：我沒有辦法，因為所有東西我還是要跟立法院報告。"],["葛委員如鈞：但你的意見很重要嘛！你是政委啊！你們是行政院啊！你們要把東西推出來，不然我們怎麼審呢？對吧？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們還是要尊重各部會的意見。"],["葛委員如鈞：不要擔任AI沙皇這種極端的角色，但是在速度上應該要參考，所以應該要做更多的溝通，不要做這種獨裁的沙皇。","接下來還要跟主委探討的也是跟產業非常有關的議題，就是2奈米的製程，各界非常的關心。主委很特別，您接受日經亞洲的專訪說，期待川普1月上任以後，能跟他合作，引號裡是您說的，您說：「如果2奈米製程的半導體廠明年能按計畫開始量產，而且量產技術成熟的話，就可以開始規劃在盟國建造最新的2奈米半導體廠。」請教主委，依照專業意見的見解，您認為台積電2奈米最快何時會赴美設廠？"],["吳主任委員誠文：這個要基於……"],["葛委員如鈞：看一下你自己的quote。"],["吳主任委員誠文：這個要基於邀請我們去設廠的國家所提出的條件，因為這還牽涉到……"],["葛委員如鈞：我們不是要搞主權AI嗎？我們不是說要有主權嗎？您的看法是什麼？我問的是您的看法。"],["吳主任委員誠文：我的看法是這個是對我們有利的。"],["葛委員如鈞：什麼時候？所以越快越好，是不是？"],["吳主任委員誠文：不是越快越好……"],["葛委員如鈞：那請教主委，你就說什麼情況之下國科會會同意讓台積電2奈米廠到美國設廠，不要講那麼vague嘛！什麼對我們有利。"],["吳主任委員誠文：同意廠商到國外投資是經濟部主政的業務，國科會……"],["葛委員如鈞：現在又是經濟部了嘛！那你幹嘛要發言呢？你幹嘛要講這些呢？你為什麼要講這個？"],["吳主任委員誠文：國科會負責我們科學園區的開發，以及我們廠商將來在營運的時候各種需求的……"],["葛委員如鈞：沒關係，你說經濟部嘛！經濟部長郭智輝說，2奈米要赴美設廠的時候，最起碼1.4奈米要落地生產。你說越快越好，他說要1.4奈米落地生產，這不是多頭馬車嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：不是落地生產，是下一代製程研發已經有一個階段可以試量產，不是正式量產。"],["葛委員如鈞：所以您打臉郭智輝部長的說法，對不對？"],["吳主任委員誠文：沒有打臉……"],["葛委員如鈞：你剛剛把球踢給經濟部，經濟部有經濟部的看法，你現在又要打臉郭部長。"],["吳主任委員誠文：沒有打臉，試產是研發過程當中非常重要的……"],["葛委員如鈞：沒關係，主委，您是政委，你現在要打臉他，我支持你嘛！"],["吳主任委員誠文：我沒有打臉。"],["葛委員如鈞：你打臉他嘛！"],["吳主任委員誠文：我沒有打臉，我們是討論過的，我跟郭部長討論過。"],["葛委員如鈞：所以郭部長這個話要收回去，11月7號他已經收回了是不是？"],["吳主任委員誠文：他不用收回去……"],["葛委員如鈞：沒關係啦！他的立場搖擺，我們也都很習慣，您的立場搖擺，我們也很習慣啦！但是拜託不要這樣，產業會不知道怎麼辦，好不好？"],["吳主任委員誠文：產業知道怎麼辦，產業知道。"],["葛委員如鈞：產業知道，那我們知不知道？"],["吳主任委員誠文：產業知道政府的規範。"],["葛委員如鈞：我們不知道是不是？我們知道嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們講的就是政府的規範。"],["葛委員如鈞：需不需要透明溝通啊？"],["吳主任委員誠文：有透明啊！"],["葛委員如鈞：需不需要讓我們知道啊？我們大院不需要被溝通，不需要知道嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們現在公布的這種方案，就是我們前瞻製程研發一定會留在臺灣……"],["葛委員如鈞：留多久嘛？問題就是留多久嘛？你說馬上，他說1.4奈米……"],["吳主任委員誠文：我……"],["葛委員如鈞：主委，不好意思我打斷你，我時間有限，我告訴你應該要留多久，之前以2奈米製程為例，2奈米要在臺灣量產三年以後才能赴美設廠。"],["吳主任委員誠文：三年是說從討論開始、規劃，當地的政府補助、土地用地取得等等……"],["葛委員如鈞：沒關係，我們現在就是自己在計算跟產業在討論，劉德音也非常關心嘛！"],["吳主任委員誠文：差不多就是三年……"],["葛委員如鈞：差不多嘛！所以最快是不是應該2028年才能去，不應該是明年？你說明年啊！你是不是當場承諾，到底是明年還是2028年？應該2028年才能去嘛！根留臺灣啊！"],["吳主任委員誠文：委員，你要聽我講啊！我說明年可以開始討論。"],["葛委員如鈞：明年可以開始討論，所以最快去設廠應該是2028年，對不對？"],["吳主任委員誠文：差不多吧！"],["葛委員如鈞：差不多嘛！你當場承諾嘛！"],["吳主任委員誠文：最快，可能更久……"],["葛委員如鈞：根留臺灣，至少留到2028年，好不好？不然大家都非常緊張。根留臺灣不能只是用喊的，要符合產業的期望，符合我們臺灣的利益。劉德音也很緊張啊！他說，我們應該要根留臺灣啊！所以我想，站在您的立場應該要留在我們這裡，根留臺灣。","我時間有限，最後我有一個很重要的議題跟您討論，其實我們也是支持科技國防的立場，defense非常的重要，近期有一個「獵鴞專案」的計畫代號引發非常多的討論，但是我們作為科技界的，我們也發現這一家公司的背後其實是科技界的神人、宅男界的大神，就是開創了VR元年的一個傢伙，他成立了一個Oculus公司，被Facebook用20億美金併購。這個您知道嗎？我們國防採購的對象其實是科技研發界的大神，您知道嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：不知道。"],["葛委員如鈞：不知道嘛！很好，我們今天有這樣健康的交流。這個人他是非常非常有名的，Palmer Luckey，沒有他，沒有現在的VR，也沒有現在Metaverse的產業，這個人發展出了一整個新世代的科技，2015年登上時代雜誌的封面。我們也發現在114年度的預算書裡面，國科會也有一些預算是跟國防科技有關，有4.6億、有7,300萬，還有很多，我想要跟主委交流的是，您也是政委，我們接下來會有很多國防的採購或者合作，這背後其實有隱藏一些科技交流的機會，我們不要只是去花錢買東西，我們要買到資源、買到人才、買到support，去做雙方產業的對接。","我最後提醒您，在美國現在國防軍購的案件，AI、科研逐步提升，增幅將近1,200%，所以雖然未來我們的國防經費不一定真的能夠提高到GDP的10%，但是範圍可能會逐年增加，國科會主委，您也是政委，在國防科技這一塊，如果有可能對我們的科研有幫助的，我們能不能跟他們有多一點的連結，不論是人才，或者是跟這些大神有一些連結？"],["主席：謝謝葛委員，我想主委你會後再給葛委員詳細的說明。"],["吳主任委員誠文：是，這部分我同意。"],["葛委員如鈞：很好，謝謝主委。"],["主席：謝謝葛如鈞委員，主委請回。","接下來有請羅廷瑋委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":284,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-10","speakers":["萬美玲","洪孟楷","柯志恩","林倩綺","陳培瑜","陳秀寳","張雅琳","葛如鈞","羅廷瑋","吳沛憶","郭昱晴","葉元之","吳春城","林宜瑾","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":241,"meetingDate":["2024-11-28"],"gazette_id":"11310803","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310803_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委員會及所屬單位預算案；二、審查114\n年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院主管行政院國家科學技術發展基金附屬單位預算案；三、審查\n114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委員會主管科學園區管理局作業基金附屬單位預\n算案；四、審查114年度行政法人國家災害防救科技中心預算案；五、審查114年度行政法人國家\n太空中心預算案（僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11310803_00002"}}}