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\"我想這要看行政訴訟官司的結果但是我們這個處分一罰下去錢都有進來那你錢進來你上面沒有顯示啊你的資料亂寫啊你資料為什麼會提供這樣的資料我接下來再問你就是9月底的時候本席有向這個主委反映哦Uber的會員不管是叫車或是叫餐會員都比非會員還不優惠\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 198.697, \"end\": 198.837, \"score\": 0.713}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 198.837, \"end\": 199.117, \"score\": 0.781}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 199.117, \"end\": 199.297, \"score\": 0.783}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 199.297, \"end\": 199.518, \"score\": 0.742}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 199.518, \"end\": 199.698, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 199.698, \"end\": 200.598, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"訴\"}, {\"word\": \"訟\"}, {\"word\": \"官\", \"start\": 200.598, \"end\": 201.039, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"司\", \"start\": 201.039, \"end\": 201.219, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 201.219, \"end\": 201.819, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 201.819, \"end\": 202.019, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 202.019, 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\"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 559.053, \"end\": 559.113, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 559.113, \"end\": 559.133, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:07,656\n主席早安我想請主委請你主委\n\n2\n00:00:13,464 --> 00:00:38,705\n委員早主委早那本席在翻閱這個預算書的時候有注意到公平會114年的預算案罰款與賠償收入編列了1億1895萬4千元而且好多年都是相差不遠的數字主委公平會每年的這個罰款達成率有多少\n\n3\n00:00:39,758 --> 00:01:02,124\n我們每年的罰款如果以今年到10月為止我們開出去的罰款經驗是1億5000多是嗎?但是你們到所以你們有1億5000多那你為什麼每一年開每一年開罰的情形都不太一樣那如果以今年到現在開出去處分的這個罰款是那你們收入也已經有1億5000多了嗎?那因為因為\n\n4\n00:01:04,145 --> 00:01:16,881\n當事人會提起行政訴訟等到官司打贏確定了才能夠入帳如果伊姆主席目前收到的這些資料過去5年你平均你編的預算達標率\n\n5\n00:01:21,493 --> 00:01:23,034\n我先跟委員報告是這樣的我們譬如說罰了兩千萬當事人錢就會進來\n\n6\n00:01:44,426 --> 00:02:03,124\n但是他要打官司他要訴訟我們這個錢就只能放在那裡所以你的意思是說你的達成率是高於現在這個嗎開出去的罰款會因為每年罰的多少會有不一樣但是就是說收的是收繳率是\n\n7\n00:02:04,105 --> 00:02:27,000\n九成以上九十九趴九十九趴但我現在目前看到的你的達成率只有三成欸所以我的意思是說這對民眾他的觀感是有差距的明明有那麼多不公平的事情結果你的罰款的達成率這麼的低這是因為有時候官司一打打個五六年七八年更久所以你要做一個更詳細的報告你不可以給我們這種資料嘛\n\n8\n00:02:30,982 --> 00:02:36,867\n您有沒有覺得你們給這個資料是不完全揭露?是不是?那你給這個資料就是錯的啦!你們為什麼會提供錯誤的資料呢?為什麼?你們應該要把這些都寫清楚而不是告訴我們這達成率這麼低都已經不能看年年還編這樣\n\n9\n00:02:55,455 --> 00:02:56,296\n主委請問預計你明年的達成率是多少?\n\n10\n00:03:18,697 --> 00:03:45,416\n我想這要看行政訴訟官司的結果但是我們這個處分一罰下去錢都有進來那你錢進來你上面沒有顯示啊你的資料亂寫啊你資料為什麼會提供這樣的資料我接下來再問你就是9月底的時候本席有向這個主委反映哦Uber的會員不管是叫車或是叫餐會員都比非會員還不優惠\n\n11\n00:03:48,407 --> 00:04:03,942\n那你就說要查啦那到現在到底有沒有正式立案調查了我們有立案調查也請當事人所以你們也已經開始立案調查了那調查的進度為何呢我想現在還在調查當中大概你們預計什麼時候能夠有一個確切的答案\n\n12\n00:04:05,798 --> 00:04:27,552\n這個要看當時就是說他的陳述意見的狀況你們要積極阿全部都dependonothers就你們都沒有你們都沒有責任你們也沒有想要積極作為嗎你都立案了你還想要慢慢吞吞的調查是要當事人還是要提供一些證據是阿那你要給他時間限制你要要求他呀\n\n13\n00:04:28,895 --> 00:04:31,417\n難道你給他3個月他就慢慢寫就好你為什麼不給他3個禮拜呢這件事情真的必須趕快處理因為直到現在社群平台上還有很多人發現這樣子的情況說明這絕對不是個案\n\n14\n00:04:46,172 --> 00:05:10,873\n我們辦公室同仁兩支手機一個是會員一個是非會員非會員叫車常常都比會員叫車便宜這合理嗎他平常叫大家加入會員就是說會員會比非會員還便宜那這就是不實廣告啊為什麼要花那麼多時間都還沒有辦法查證呢我想我們再查一個違法案件一方面是這個\n\n15\n00:05:12,774 --> 00:05:21,417\n在程序上是要讓被檢舉人有一個充分答辯的機會這樣我們的審查的品質是你要給他答辯的機會本席都同意但是你要積極的來查你要加速啊你要知道這個外送平台上面有多少人用嗎如果據本席的資料臺灣已經有31%的消費者都使用外送平台那這樣平均起來\n\n16\n00:05:36,883 --> 00:05:38,024\n發言委員這家他有要跟總部要相關資料的問題\n\n17\n00:06:04,104 --> 00:06:06,425\n這就明顯是被拖延嘛!你是被騙了吧?他這個Uber的訂閱會員的介紹頁面就很明顯的寫到說每月平均省440元那顯然這個比基準是以跟非會員比嘛\n\n18\n00:06:29,031 --> 00:06:38,700\n那常常是非會員比較便宜怎麼可能會省怎麼可能會比較便宜而且他這個440塊數字是哪裡算來的這難道不是不實廣告嗎是啊那你預計什麼時候他可以說明完成盡快是什麼時候是明年嗎\n\n19\n00:06:56,138 --> 00:07:04,738\n還是什麼時候你不可能這麼多人在訂閱三餐很多人都外送你就放任他們這些會員每天被吸血嗎\n\n20\n00:07:06,345 --> 00:07:22,077\n跟委員報告我們上個月立案調查我們現在已經有請他提出說明可是因為他因為他的這個總公司的那個不是在臺灣所以他說明的時候那臺灣是完全沒有資料嗎他登記在臺灣他臺灣沒有資料嗎這種自由是你們可以接受的嗎本席絕對不是針對Uber不管哪一間企業我們都是用同樣的標準來檢視希望公平會要做到\n\n21\n00:07:33,307 --> 00:07:36,383\n市場消費市場的秩序守護者\n\n22\n00:07:40,359 --> 00:08:05,911\n你覺得有做到嗎?你覺得你有做到嗎?這700萬人的權益你有守護嗎?你用這種消極的態度你要等他總部現在一秒多快啊?三秒就已經可以傳過來了你打算等多久?你打算等多久?你打算等多久?要多久?你本來你要求他多久以內要回來?\n\n23\n00:08:09,212 --> 00:08:30,260\n根本報告我們都是按照正常的程序而且他現在已經有相關的答覆但是針對答覆的內容還要跟事實做一個核對所以我們可能還要進一步所以你們是人手不足嗎還是調查動力不足是調查程序當我們調查程序當我們說主委主委我有讓他講話嗎不好意思\n\n24\n00:08:33,527 --> 00:08:33,667\n委員我們要有這個\n\n25\n00:08:49,931 --> 00:08:53,554\n請主委一個禮拜提供出來因為我們這數位網路很發達請你們不要做事都不積極一直推脫拉好\n\n26\n00:09:19,053 --> 00:09:19,133\n主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4840\t7656\t主席早安我想請主委請你主委\n13464\t38705\t委員早主委早那本席在翻閱這個預算書的時候有注意到公平會114年的預算案罰款與賠償收入編列了1億1895萬4千元而且好多年都是相差不遠的數字主委公平會每年的這個罰款達成率有多少\n39758\t62124\t我們每年的罰款如果以今年到10月為止我們開出去的罰款經驗是1億5000多是嗎?但是你們到所以你們有1億5000多那你為什麼每一年開每一年開罰的情形都不太一樣那如果以今年到現在開出去處分的這個罰款是那你們收入也已經有1億5000多了嗎?那因為因為\n64145\t76881\t當事人會提起行政訴訟等到官司打贏確定了才能夠入帳如果伊姆主席目前收到的這些資料過去5年你平均你編的預算達標率\n81493\t83034\t我先跟委員報告是這樣的我們譬如說罰了兩千萬當事人錢就會進來\n104426\t123124\t但是他要打官司他要訴訟我們這個錢就只能放在那裡所以你的意思是說你的達成率是高於現在這個嗎開出去的罰款會因為每年罰的多少會有不一樣但是就是說收的是收繳率是\n124105\t147000\t九成以上 九十九趴九十九趴但我現在目前看到的你的達成率只有三成欸所以我的意思是說這對民眾他的觀感是有差距的明明有那麼多不公平的事情結果你的罰款的達成率這麼的低這是因為有時候官司一打打個五六年七八年更久所以你要做一個更詳細的報告你不可以給我們這種資料嘛\n150982\t156867\t您有沒有覺得你們給這個資料是不完全揭露?是不是?那你給這個資料就是錯的啦!你們為什麼會提供錯誤的資料呢?為什麼?你們應該要把這些都寫清楚而不是告訴我們這達成率這麼低都已經不能看年年還編這樣\n175455\t176296\t主委 請問預計你明年的達成率是多少?\n198697\t225416\t我想這要看行政訴訟官司的結果但是我們這個處分一罰下去錢都有進來那你錢進來你上面沒有顯示啊你的資料亂寫啊你資料為什麼會提供這樣的資料我接下來再問你就是9月底的時候本席有向這個主委反映哦Uber的會員不管是叫車或是叫餐會員都比非會員還不優惠\n228407\t243942\t那你就說要查啦那到現在到底有沒有正式立案調查了我們有立案調查也請當事人所以你們也已經開始立案調查了那調查的進度為何呢我想現在還在調查當中大概你們預計什麼時候能夠有一個確切的答案\n245798\t267552\t這個要看當時就是說他的陳述意見的狀況你們要積極阿 全部都depend on others就你們都沒有你們都沒有責任你們也沒有想要積極作為嗎你都立案了你還想要慢慢吞吞的調查是要當事人還是要提供一些證據是阿那你要給他時間限制你要要求他呀\n268895\t271417\t難道你給他3個月他就慢慢寫就好你為什麼不給他3個禮拜呢這件事情真的必須趕快處理因為直到現在社群平台上還有很多人發現這樣子的情況說明這絕對不是個案\n286172\t310873\t我們辦公室同仁兩支手機一個是會員一個是非會員非會員叫車常常都比會員叫車便宜這合理嗎他平常叫大家加入會員就是說會員會比非會員還便宜那這就是不實廣告啊為什麼要花那麼多時間都還沒有辦法查證呢我想我們再查一個違法案件一方面是這個\n312774\t321417\t在程序上是要讓被檢舉人有一個充分答辯的機會這樣我們的審查的品質是你要給他答辯的機會本席都同意但是你要積極的來查你要加速啊你要知道這個外送平台上面有多少人用嗎如果據本席的資料臺灣已經有31%的消費者都使用外送平台那這樣平均起來\n336883\t338024\t發言委員這家他有要跟總部要相關資料的問題\n364104\t366425\t這就明顯是被拖延嘛!你是被騙了吧?他這個Uber的訂閱會員的介紹頁面就很明顯的寫到說每月平均省440元那顯然這個比基準是以跟非會員比嘛\n389031\t398700\t那常常是非會員比較便宜怎麼可能會省怎麼可能會比較便宜而且他這個440塊數字是哪裡算來的這難道不是不實廣告嗎是啊 那你預計什麼時候他可以說明完成盡快是什麼時候是明年嗎\n416138\t424738\t還是什麼時候你不可能這麼多人在訂閱三餐很多人都外送你就放任他們這些會員每天被吸血嗎\n426345\t442077\t跟委員報告我們上個月立案調查我們現在已經有請他提出說明可是因為他因為他的這個總公司的那個不是在臺灣所以他說明的時候那臺灣是完全沒有資料嗎他登記在臺灣他臺灣沒有資料嗎這種自由是你們可以接受的嗎本席絕對不是針對Uber不管哪一間企業我們都是用同樣的標準來檢視希望公平會要做到\n453307\t456383\t市場消費市場的秩序守護者\n460359\t485911\t你覺得有做到嗎?你覺得你有做到嗎?這700萬人的權益你有守護嗎?你用這種消極的態度你要等他總部現在一秒多快啊?三秒就已經可以傳過來了你打算等多久?你打算等多久?你打算等多久?要多久?你本來你要求他多久以內要回來?\n489212\t510260\t根本報告我們都是按照正常的程序而且他現在已經有相關的答覆但是針對答覆的內容還要跟事實做一個核對所以我們可能還要進一步所以你們是人手不足嗎還是調查動力不足是調查程序當我們調查程序當我們說主委主委我有讓他講話嗎不好意思\n513527\t513667\t委員我們要有這個\n529931\t533554\t請主委一個禮拜提供出來因為我們這數位網路很發達請你們不要做事都不積極一直推脫拉好\n559053\t559133\t主席\n","txt":"主席早安我想請主委請你主委\n委員早主委早那本席在翻閱這個預算書的時候有注意到公平會114年的預算案罰款與賠償收入編列了1億1895萬4千元而且好多年都是相差不遠的數字主委公平會每年的這個罰款達成率有多少\n我們每年的罰款如果以今年到10月為止我們開出去的罰款經驗是1億5000多是嗎?但是你們到所以你們有1億5000多那你為什麼每一年開每一年開罰的情形都不太一樣那如果以今年到現在開出去處分的這個罰款是那你們收入也已經有1億5000多了嗎?那因為因為\n當事人會提起行政訴訟等到官司打贏確定了才能夠入帳如果伊姆主席目前收到的這些資料過去5年你平均你編的預算達標率\n我先跟委員報告是這樣的我們譬如說罰了兩千萬當事人錢就會進來\n但是他要打官司他要訴訟我們這個錢就只能放在那裡所以你的意思是說你的達成率是高於現在這個嗎開出去的罰款會因為每年罰的多少會有不一樣但是就是說收的是收繳率是\n九成以上 九十九趴九十九趴但我現在目前看到的你的達成率只有三成欸所以我的意思是說這對民眾他的觀感是有差距的明明有那麼多不公平的事情結果你的罰款的達成率這麼的低這是因為有時候官司一打打個五六年七八年更久所以你要做一個更詳細的報告你不可以給我們這種資料嘛\n您有沒有覺得你們給這個資料是不完全揭露?是不是?那你給這個資料就是錯的啦!你們為什麼會提供錯誤的資料呢?為什麼?你們應該要把這些都寫清楚而不是告訴我們這達成率這麼低都已經不能看年年還編這樣\n主委 請問預計你明年的達成率是多少?\n我想這要看行政訴訟官司的結果但是我們這個處分一罰下去錢都有進來那你錢進來你上面沒有顯示啊你的資料亂寫啊你資料為什麼會提供這樣的資料我接下來再問你就是9月底的時候本席有向這個主委反映哦Uber的會員不管是叫車或是叫餐會員都比非會員還不優惠\n那你就說要查啦那到現在到底有沒有正式立案調查了我們有立案調查也請當事人所以你們也已經開始立案調查了那調查的進度為何呢我想現在還在調查當中大概你們預計什麼時候能夠有一個確切的答案\n這個要看當時就是說他的陳述意見的狀況你們要積極阿 全部都depend on others就你們都沒有你們都沒有責任你們也沒有想要積極作為嗎你都立案了你還想要慢慢吞吞的調查是要當事人還是要提供一些證據是阿那你要給他時間限制你要要求他呀\n難道你給他3個月他就慢慢寫就好你為什麼不給他3個禮拜呢這件事情真的必須趕快處理因為直到現在社群平台上還有很多人發現這樣子的情況說明這絕對不是個案\n我們辦公室同仁兩支手機一個是會員一個是非會員非會員叫車常常都比會員叫車便宜這合理嗎他平常叫大家加入會員就是說會員會比非會員還便宜那這就是不實廣告啊為什麼要花那麼多時間都還沒有辦法查證呢我想我們再查一個違法案件一方面是這個\n在程序上是要讓被檢舉人有一個充分答辯的機會這樣我們的審查的品質是你要給他答辯的機會本席都同意但是你要積極的來查你要加速啊你要知道這個外送平台上面有多少人用嗎如果據本席的資料臺灣已經有31%的消費者都使用外送平台那這樣平均起來\n發言委員這家他有要跟總部要相關資料的問題\n這就明顯是被拖延嘛!你是被騙了吧?他這個Uber的訂閱會員的介紹頁面就很明顯的寫到說每月平均省440元那顯然這個比基準是以跟非會員比嘛\n那常常是非會員比較便宜怎麼可能會省怎麼可能會比較便宜而且他這個440塊數字是哪裡算來的這難道不是不實廣告嗎是啊 那你預計什麼時候他可以說明完成盡快是什麼時候是明年嗎\n還是什麼時候你不可能這麼多人在訂閱三餐很多人都外送你就放任他們這些會員每天被吸血嗎\n跟委員報告我們上個月立案調查我們現在已經有請他提出說明可是因為他因為他的這個總公司的那個不是在臺灣所以他說明的時候那臺灣是完全沒有資料嗎他登記在臺灣他臺灣沒有資料嗎這種自由是你們可以接受的嗎本席絕對不是針對Uber不管哪一間企業我們都是用同樣的標準來檢視希望公平會要做到\n市場消費市場的秩序守護者\n你覺得有做到嗎?你覺得你有做到嗎?這700萬人的權益你有守護嗎?你用這種消極的態度你要等他總部現在一秒多快啊?三秒就已經可以傳過來了你打算等多久?你打算等多久?你打算等多久?要多久?你本來你要求他多久以內要回來?\n根本報告我們都是按照正常的程序而且他現在已經有相關的答覆但是針對答覆的內容還要跟事實做一個核對所以我們可能還要進一步所以你們是人手不足嗎還是調查動力不足是調查程序當我們調查程序當我們說主委主委我有讓他講話嗎不好意思\n委員我們要有這個\n請主委一個禮拜提供出來因為我們這數位網路很發達請你們不要做事都不積極一直推脫拉好\n主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.840 --> 00:07.656\n主席早安我想請主委請你主委\n\n00:13.464 --> 00:38.705\n委員早主委早那本席在翻閱這個預算書的時候有注意到公平會114年的預算案罰款與賠償收入編列了1億1895萬4千元而且好多年都是相差不遠的數字主委公平會每年的這個罰款達成率有多少\n\n00:39.758 --> 01:02.124\n我們每年的罰款如果以今年到10月為止我們開出去的罰款經驗是1億5000多是嗎?但是你們到所以你們有1億5000多那你為什麼每一年開每一年開罰的情形都不太一樣那如果以今年到現在開出去處分的這個罰款是那你們收入也已經有1億5000多了嗎?那因為因為\n\n01:04.145 --> 01:16.881\n當事人會提起行政訴訟等到官司打贏確定了才能夠入帳如果伊姆主席目前收到的這些資料過去5年你平均你編的預算達標率\n\n01:21.493 --> 01:23.034\n我先跟委員報告是這樣的我們譬如說罰了兩千萬當事人錢就會進來\n\n01:44.426 --> 02:03.124\n但是他要打官司他要訴訟我們這個錢就只能放在那裡所以你的意思是說你的達成率是高於現在這個嗎開出去的罰款會因為每年罰的多少會有不一樣但是就是說收的是收繳率是\n\n02:04.105 --> 02:27.000\n九成以上九十九趴九十九趴但我現在目前看到的你的達成率只有三成欸所以我的意思是說這對民眾他的觀感是有差距的明明有那麼多不公平的事情結果你的罰款的達成率這麼的低這是因為有時候官司一打打個五六年七八年更久所以你要做一個更詳細的報告你不可以給我們這種資料嘛\n\n02:30.982 --> 02:36.867\n您有沒有覺得你們給這個資料是不完全揭露?是不是?那你給這個資料就是錯的啦!你們為什麼會提供錯誤的資料呢?為什麼?你們應該要把這些都寫清楚而不是告訴我們這達成率這麼低都已經不能看年年還編這樣\n\n02:55.455 --> 02:56.296\n主委請問預計你明年的達成率是多少?\n\n03:18.697 --> 03:45.416\n我想這要看行政訴訟官司的結果但是我們這個處分一罰下去錢都有進來那你錢進來你上面沒有顯示啊你的資料亂寫啊你資料為什麼會提供這樣的資料我接下來再問你就是9月底的時候本席有向這個主委反映哦Uber的會員不管是叫車或是叫餐會員都比非會員還不優惠\n\n03:48.407 --> 04:03.942\n那你就說要查啦那到現在到底有沒有正式立案調查了我們有立案調查也請當事人所以你們也已經開始立案調查了那調查的進度為何呢我想現在還在調查當中大概你們預計什麼時候能夠有一個確切的答案\n\n04:05.798 --> 04:27.552\n這個要看當時就是說他的陳述意見的狀況你們要積極阿全部都dependonothers就你們都沒有你們都沒有責任你們也沒有想要積極作為嗎你都立案了你還想要慢慢吞吞的調查是要當事人還是要提供一些證據是阿那你要給他時間限制你要要求他呀\n\n04:28.895 --> 04:31.417\n難道你給他3個月他就慢慢寫就好你為什麼不給他3個禮拜呢這件事情真的必須趕快處理因為直到現在社群平台上還有很多人發現這樣子的情況說明這絕對不是個案\n\n04:46.172 --> 05:10.873\n我們辦公室同仁兩支手機一個是會員一個是非會員非會員叫車常常都比會員叫車便宜這合理嗎他平常叫大家加入會員就是說會員會比非會員還便宜那這就是不實廣告啊為什麼要花那麼多時間都還沒有辦法查證呢我想我們再查一個違法案件一方面是這個\n\n05:12.774 --> 05:21.417\n在程序上是要讓被檢舉人有一個充分答辯的機會這樣我們的審查的品質是你要給他答辯的機會本席都同意但是你要積極的來查你要加速啊你要知道這個外送平台上面有多少人用嗎如果據本席的資料臺灣已經有31%的消費者都使用外送平台那這樣平均起來\n\n05:36.883 --> 05:38.024\n發言委員這家他有要跟總部要相關資料的問題\n\n06:04.104 --> 06:06.425\n這就明顯是被拖延嘛!你是被騙了吧?他這個Uber的訂閱會員的介紹頁面就很明顯的寫到說每月平均省440元那顯然這個比基準是以跟非會員比嘛\n\n06:29.031 --> 06:38.700\n那常常是非會員比較便宜怎麼可能會省怎麼可能會比較便宜而且他這個440塊數字是哪裡算來的這難道不是不實廣告嗎是啊那你預計什麼時候他可以說明完成盡快是什麼時候是明年嗎\n\n06:56.138 --> 07:04.738\n還是什麼時候你不可能這麼多人在訂閱三餐很多人都外送你就放任他們這些會員每天被吸血嗎\n\n07:06.345 --> 07:22.077\n跟委員報告我們上個月立案調查我們現在已經有請他提出說明可是因為他因為他的這個總公司的那個不是在臺灣所以他說明的時候那臺灣是完全沒有資料嗎他登記在臺灣他臺灣沒有資料嗎這種自由是你們可以接受的嗎本席絕對不是針對Uber不管哪一間企業我們都是用同樣的標準來檢視希望公平會要做到\n\n07:33.307 --> 07:36.383\n市場消費市場的秩序守護者\n\n07:40.359 --> 08:05.911\n你覺得有做到嗎?你覺得你有做到嗎?這700萬人的權益你有守護嗎?你用這種消極的態度你要等他總部現在一秒多快啊?三秒就已經可以傳過來了你打算等多久?你打算等多久?你打算等多久?要多久?你本來你要求他多久以內要回來?\n\n08:09.212 --> 08:30.260\n根本報告我們都是按照正常的程序而且他現在已經有相關的答覆但是針對答覆的內容還要跟事實做一個核對所以我們可能還要進一步所以你們是人手不足嗎還是調查動力不足是調查程序當我們調查程序當我們說主委主委我有讓他講話嗎不好意思\n\n08:33.527 --> 08:33.667\n委員我們要有這個\n\n08:49.931 --> 08:53.554\n請主委一個禮拜提供出來因為我們這數位網路很發達請你們不要做事都不積極一直推脫拉好\n\n09:19.053 --> 09:19.133\n主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.84,"end":7.656,"text":"主席早安我想請主委請你主委"},{"start":13.464,"end":38.705,"text":"委員早主委早那本席在翻閱這個預算書的時候有注意到公平會114年的預算案罰款與賠償收入編列了1億1895萬4千元而且好多年都是相差不遠的數字主委公平會每年的這個罰款達成率有多少"},{"start":39.758,"end":62.124,"text":"我們每年的罰款如果以今年到10月為止我們開出去的罰款經驗是1億5000多是嗎?但是你們到所以你們有1億5000多那你為什麼每一年開每一年開罰的情形都不太一樣那如果以今年到現在開出去處分的這個罰款是那你們收入也已經有1億5000多了嗎?那因為因為"},{"start":64.145,"end":76.881,"text":"當事人會提起行政訴訟等到官司打贏確定了才能夠入帳如果伊姆主席目前收到的這些資料過去5年你平均你編的預算達標率"},{"start":81.493,"end":83.034,"text":"我先跟委員報告是這樣的我們譬如說罰了兩千萬當事人錢就會進來"},{"start":104.426,"end":123.124,"text":"但是他要打官司他要訴訟我們這個錢就只能放在那裡所以你的意思是說你的達成率是高於現在這個嗎開出去的罰款會因為每年罰的多少會有不一樣但是就是說收的是收繳率是"},{"start":124.105,"end":147,"text":"九成以上 九十九趴九十九趴但我現在目前看到的你的達成率只有三成欸所以我的意思是說這對民眾他的觀感是有差距的明明有那麼多不公平的事情結果你的罰款的達成率這麼的低這是因為有時候官司一打打個五六年七八年更久所以你要做一個更詳細的報告你不可以給我們這種資料嘛"},{"start":150.982,"end":156.867,"text":"您有沒有覺得你們給這個資料是不完全揭露?是不是?那你給這個資料就是錯的啦!你們為什麼會提供錯誤的資料呢?為什麼?你們應該要把這些都寫清楚而不是告訴我們這達成率這麼低都已經不能看年年還編這樣"},{"start":175.455,"end":176.296,"text":"主委 請問預計你明年的達成率是多少?"},{"start":198.697,"end":225.416,"text":"我想這要看行政訴訟官司的結果但是我們這個處分一罰下去錢都有進來那你錢進來你上面沒有顯示啊你的資料亂寫啊你資料為什麼會提供這樣的資料我接下來再問你就是9月底的時候本席有向這個主委反映哦Uber的會員不管是叫車或是叫餐會員都比非會員還不優惠"},{"start":228.407,"end":243.942,"text":"那你就說要查啦那到現在到底有沒有正式立案調查了我們有立案調查也請當事人所以你們也已經開始立案調查了那調查的進度為何呢我想現在還在調查當中大概你們預計什麼時候能夠有一個確切的答案"},{"start":245.798,"end":267.552,"text":"這個要看當時就是說他的陳述意見的狀況你們要積極阿 全部都depend on others就你們都沒有你們都沒有責任你們也沒有想要積極作為嗎你都立案了你還想要慢慢吞吞的調查是要當事人還是要提供一些證據是阿那你要給他時間限制你要要求他呀"},{"start":268.895,"end":271.417,"text":"難道你給他3個月他就慢慢寫就好你為什麼不給他3個禮拜呢這件事情真的必須趕快處理因為直到現在社群平台上還有很多人發現這樣子的情況說明這絕對不是個案"},{"start":286.172,"end":310.873,"text":"我們辦公室同仁兩支手機一個是會員一個是非會員非會員叫車常常都比會員叫車便宜這合理嗎他平常叫大家加入會員就是說會員會比非會員還便宜那這就是不實廣告啊為什麼要花那麼多時間都還沒有辦法查證呢我想我們再查一個違法案件一方面是這個"},{"start":312.774,"end":321.417,"text":"在程序上是要讓被檢舉人有一個充分答辯的機會這樣我們的審查的品質是你要給他答辯的機會本席都同意但是你要積極的來查你要加速啊你要知道這個外送平台上面有多少人用嗎如果據本席的資料臺灣已經有31%的消費者都使用外送平台那這樣平均起來"},{"start":336.883,"end":338.024,"text":"發言委員這家他有要跟總部要相關資料的問題"},{"start":364.104,"end":366.425,"text":"這就明顯是被拖延嘛!你是被騙了吧?他這個Uber的訂閱會員的介紹頁面就很明顯的寫到說每月平均省440元那顯然這個比基準是以跟非會員比嘛"},{"start":389.031,"end":398.7,"text":"那常常是非會員比較便宜怎麼可能會省怎麼可能會比較便宜而且他這個440塊數字是哪裡算來的這難道不是不實廣告嗎是啊 那你預計什麼時候他可以說明完成盡快是什麼時候是明年嗎"},{"start":416.138,"end":424.738,"text":"還是什麼時候你不可能這麼多人在訂閱三餐很多人都外送你就放任他們這些會員每天被吸血嗎"},{"start":426.345,"end":442.077,"text":"跟委員報告我們上個月立案調查我們現在已經有請他提出說明可是因為他因為他的這個總公司的那個不是在臺灣所以他說明的時候那臺灣是完全沒有資料嗎他登記在臺灣他臺灣沒有資料嗎這種自由是你們可以接受的嗎本席絕對不是針對Uber不管哪一間企業我們都是用同樣的標準來檢視希望公平會要做到"},{"start":453.307,"end":456.383,"text":"市場消費市場的秩序守護者"},{"start":460.359,"end":485.911,"text":"你覺得有做到嗎?你覺得你有做到嗎?這700萬人的權益你有守護嗎?你用這種消極的態度你要等他總部現在一秒多快啊?三秒就已經可以傳過來了你打算等多久?你打算等多久?你打算等多久?要多久?你本來你要求他多久以內要回來?"},{"start":489.212,"end":510.26,"text":"根本報告我們都是按照正常的程序而且他現在已經有相關的答覆但是針對答覆的內容還要跟事實做一個核對所以我們可能還要進一步所以你們是人手不足嗎還是調查動力不足是調查程序當我們調查程序當我們說主委主委我有讓他講話嗎不好意思"},{"start":513.527,"end":513.667,"text":"委員我們要有這個"},{"start":529.931,"end":533.554,"text":"請主委一個禮拜提供出來因為我們這數位網路很發達請你們不要做事都不積極一直推脫拉好"},{"start":559.053,"end":559.133,"text":"主席"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":512,"blocks":[["張委員嘉郡：（10時20分）主席早安，我想請主委。"],["主席：請李主委。"],["李主任委員鎂：委員早。"],["張委員嘉郡：主委早。本席在翻閱預算書的時候有注意到，公平會114年的預算案，罰款與賠償收入編列了1億1,895萬4,000元，而且好多年都是相差不遠的數字。主委，公平會每年的罰鍰達成率有多少？"],["李主任委員鎂：我們每年的罰鍰，如果以今年到10月為止，我們開出去的罰鍰金額是一億五千多。"],["張委員嘉郡：喔？是嗎？"],["李主任委員鎂：是。"],["張委員嘉郡：所以你們有罰一億五千多，那你為什麼明年開……"],["李主任委員鎂：我想每一年開罰的情形都不太一樣，如果以今年到現在，開出去處分的罰鍰是一億多……"],["張委員嘉郡：那你們的收入也已經有一億五千多了嗎？"],["李主任委員鎂：因為當事人會提起行政訴訟，等到官司打贏、確定了才能夠入帳。"],["張委員嘉郡：如果以目前收到的這些資料，過去5年平均你編的預算達標率average都不到三成耶！只有一年，111年達成三成而已。所以我對你編的這個預算有一點疑慮是在於，為什麼像111年1億4,000萬的這個你只罰了4,000萬？"],["李主任委員鎂：我先跟委員報告，是這樣子，我們譬如罰了2,000萬，當事人的錢就會進來，但是他要打官司、訴訟，我們這個錢就只能放在那裡，等到贏了……"],["張委員嘉郡：你的意思是你的達成率是高於現在這個嗎？"],["李主任委員鎂：開出去的罰鍰，因為每年罰的多少會有不一樣，收繳率是九成以上、99%，但是要決算……"],["張委員嘉郡：99%？但是我目前看到的，你的達成率只有三成耶！我的意思是，就民眾的觀感是有差距的。"],["李主任委員鎂：是，我想……"],["張委員嘉郡：他說明明有那麼多不公平的事情，結果你罰鍰的達成率這麼低！"],["李主任委員鎂：這是因為有時候官司一打就打個5、6年；7、8年或更久，所以要等到法院確定之後……"],["張委員嘉郡：所以你要做一個更詳細的報告，你不可以給我們這種資料嘛！"],["李主任委員鎂：是。"],["張委員嘉郡：你有沒有覺得你們給這個資料是不完全揭露？"],["李主任委員鎂：我進一步再說明，容易造成……"],["張委員嘉郡：是不是？那你給這個資料就是錯的啦！你們為什麼會提供錯誤的資料？為什麼？"],["李主任委員鎂：應該是說決算數，我們決算數是要以入庫的……"],["張委員嘉郡：你們應該要把這些都寫清楚，而不是告訴我們……這個達成率這麼低，都已經不能看了，每年還編這樣，合理嗎？"],["李主任委員鎂：是，我們會後給委員比較詳細的說明。"],["張委員嘉郡：是。當然本席同意開罰是手段，不是目的，但你們每年開罰一億多，然後達成率兩、三成，代表你們就沒有在做、眼高手低嘛！主委，請問你預計明年的達成率是多少？"],["李主任委員鎂：我想這要看行政訴訟官司的結果，我們這個處分一罰下去，錢都有進來，但是進來要等確定……"],["張委員嘉郡：那你錢進來，你上面沒有顯示，你的資料亂寫啊！你為什麼會提供這樣的資料？"],["李主任委員鎂：那個預算數跟決算數……"],["張委員嘉郡：我接下來再問你，9月底的時候本席有向主委反映，Uber會員不管是叫車或是叫餐，會員都比非會員還不優惠，你就說要查。那到現在，到底有沒有正式立案調查了？"],["李主任委員鎂：我們有立案調查，也請當事人……"],["張委員嘉郡：所以你們也已經開始立案調查了。"],["李主任委員鎂：是。"],["張委員嘉郡：調查的進度為何？"],["李主任委員鎂：現在還在調查當中。"],["張委員嘉郡：大概你們預計什麼時候能夠有一個確切的答案？"],["李主任委員鎂：這個要看當時，就是他陳述意見的狀況……"],["張委員嘉郡：你們要積極啊！全部都depend on others，你們都沒有責任，你們也沒有想要積極作為嘛！你都立案了，你還想要慢慢吞吞地調查。"],["李主任委員鎂：不是慢慢吞吞，當事人還是要提供一些證據，我們會做評斷。"],["張委員嘉郡：是啊！那你要給他時間限制，你要要求他呀！難道你給他3個月，他慢慢寫就好，你為什麼不給他3個禮拜呢？"],["李主任委員鎂：我想我們會……"],["張委員嘉郡：這一件事情真的必須趕快處理，因為直到現在社群平臺上還有很多人發現這樣子的情況，說明這絕對不是個案。我們辦公室同仁兩支手機，一個是會員，一個是非會員，非會員叫車，常常都比會員叫車便宜，這合理嗎？它平常叫大家加入會員，就是說會員會比非會員還便宜，這就是不實廣告啊！為什麼要花那麼多的時間都還沒有辦法查證？"],["李主任委員鎂：我想我們在查一個違法案件，一方面在程序上是要讓被檢舉人有充分答辯的機會，這樣我們審查的品質才會精確，但是在訴訟上……"],["張委員嘉郡：是，你要給他答辯的機會，本席都同意，但是你要積極地查、你要加速啊！你要知道這個外送平臺上面有多少人用嗎？如果據本席的資料，臺灣已經有31%的消費者都使用外送平臺，這樣平均起來是有700萬用戶耶！七百萬人的權益，你不用守護嗎？我完全無法理解，怎麼會不積極去處理這件事情？"],["李主任委員鎂：報告委員，有積極處理。"],["張委員嘉郡：而且如果連這種基本的問題你都要慢慢吞吞、支支吾吾，沒有辦法給具體的答案，那公平會的魄力在哪裡？"],["李主任委員鎂：報告委員，這一家它有要跟總部要相關資料的問題……"],["張委員嘉郡：它還要跟總部調相關資料，它在臺灣營運，它沒有資料？"],["李主任委員鎂：這個要……"],["張委員嘉郡：這就明顯是被拖延嘛！你是被騙了吧！"],["李主任委員鎂：不是，我們有很多資料要一起提供，這個案子，我們會一定會好好地辦。"],["張委員嘉郡：Uber訂閱會員的介紹頁面就很明顯寫到每月平均省440元，顯然這個基準是跟非會員比，而常常是非會員比較便宜，怎麼可能會省、怎麼可能會比較便宜，而且這440塊的數字是哪裡算來的，這難道不是不實廣告嗎？"],["李主任委員鎂：我們要……"],["張委員嘉郡：是啊！那你預計什麼時候它可以說明完成？"],["李主任委員鎂：我們會儘快處理。"],["張委員嘉郡：儘快是什麼時候？"],["李主任委員鎂：處長可以說明一下嗎？"],["張委員嘉郡：是明年嗎？還是什麼時候？你不可能……這麼多人在訂閱，三餐很多人都外送，你就放任這些會員每天被吸血嘛！"],["李主任委員鎂：進度說明一下。"],["沈處長麗玉：跟委員報告，我們上個月立案調查，現在已經請它提出說明，可是因為它的總公司不是在臺灣，所以它說明的時間……"],["張委員嘉郡：那臺灣是完全沒有資料嗎？"],["沈處長麗玉：它已經有提出說明。"],["張委員嘉郡：登記在臺灣，它在臺灣沒有資料嗎？"],["沈處長麗玉：因為……"],["張委員嘉郡：這種理由是你們可以接受的嗎？本席絕對不是針對Uber，不管哪一間企業，我們都是用同樣的標準檢視，希望公平會要做到是消費市場秩序的守護者。"],["李主任委員鎂：來維護整個……"],["張委員嘉郡：你覺得有做到嗎？"],["李主任委員鎂：秩序的……"],["張委員嘉郡：你覺得你有做到嗎？這700萬人的權益你有守護嗎？你用這種消極的態度，你要等他總部……"],["李主任委員鎂：沒有消極。"],["張委員嘉郡：現在email多快啊！"],["李主任委員鎂：沒有消極，這個程序上，該走的程序……"],["張委員嘉郡：3秒就已經可以傳過來了，你打算等多久？"],["李主任委員鎂：我們對於檢舉案件，有程序要走，我們……"],["張委員嘉郡：你打算等多久？"],["李主任委員鎂：這個事證資料清楚之後，我們就會……"],["張委員嘉郡：要多久？你要求他多久以內要回來……"],["李主任委員鎂：請說明。"],["沈處長麗玉：跟委員報告，我們都是按照正常的程序，而且它現在有……"],["張委員嘉郡：正常程序是多久嘛？"],["沈處長麗玉：它現在……"],["張委員嘉郡：多久？"],["沈處長麗玉：它現在已經有相關的答復，但是針對答復的內容……"],["張委員嘉郡：相關答復是怎麼樣？"],["沈處長麗玉：我們還要去跟事實做核對，所以我們可能要進一步做調查。"],["張委員嘉郡：所以你們是人手不足嗎？還是調查動力不足？"],["沈處長麗玉：是調查程序……"],["張委員嘉郡：調查什麼程序？"],["沈處長麗玉：當我們收到……"],["張委員嘉郡：主委，我有讓他講話嗎？"],["沈處長麗玉：不好意思。"],["李主任委員鎂：我想跟委員說明，任何一個涉法的案件……"],["張委員嘉郡：包括上次我問你Coupang，有立案調查了嗎？Coupang的不實評論，南韓都罰了34億了，你有立案調查嗎？"],["李主任委員鎂：委員，我們要有事證，第一個，Coupang……"],["張委員嘉郡：事證？這麼明確的事證，你每天都可以上網路印啊！"],["李主任委員鎂：Coupang的經營模式跟臺灣不一樣，它在韓國有自有品牌，所……"],["張委員嘉郡：但是你在臺灣還是……"],["李主任委員鎂：在臺灣它沒有自有品牌。"],["張委員嘉郡：可以看到這些不實的評論，所以主委，你要儘快立案調查，謝謝。"],["李主任委員鎂：委員上次提到的，我們有去了解，我會後再跟委員說明，情況並不一樣。"],["張委員嘉郡：儘快、儘快。謝謝。"],["主席：請主委一個禮拜內提供出來，因為現在數位網路很發達，請你們不要做事不積極，一直推拖拉。好，一個禮拜。"],["張委員嘉郡：謝謝主席。"],["主席：在呂玉玲質詢完畢後休息。現在請謝衣鳯委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":54,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-18","speakers":["呂玉玲","陳亭妃","林岱樺","邱議瑩","鄭正鈐","張啓楷","楊瓊瓔","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張嘉郡","謝衣鳯","賴瑞隆","邱志偉","洪孟楷","王鴻薇","陳超明","蔡易餘","葉元之"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-28"],"gazette_id":"11310801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310801_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第18次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於公平交易委員會單位預算及附屬單位預算非營業部分關於公\n平交易委員會主管：反托拉斯基金（詢答）","agenda_id":"11310801_00001"}}}