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\"end\": 610.95, \"score\": 0.793}, {\"word\": \"憲\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 610.95, \"end\": 610.97, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,570 --> 00:00:15,183\n謝謝主席。本席邀請我們工程會的陳主委。請陳主委。主委好。\n\n2\n00:00:21,358 --> 00:00:39,011\n主委,這有一件事情需要請主委來協助幫忙支持這是在台南東山區有一條橋樑叫做東元二號橋它現在毀損非常嚴重主要就是昨天有一個風災,崑崙颱風把這個橋造成重大的一個傷害\n\n3\n00:00:44,335 --> 00:00:45,696\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n\n4\n00:01:04,302 --> 00:01:24,061\n這條橋很重要,因為它跨過龜松溪,附近大概有好幾百戶,至少300戶人家必須要靠這條橋進出。那更重要的是東山的這條東原二號橋,它是附近龍山坪,出了很重要的一個通道。\n\n5\n00:01:25,462 --> 00:01:50,627\n東山啊,台南的東山啊,盛產柑橘類啊,我們的柑啊,柳丁椪柑,這個東山是最重要的產區啊。所以現在台南市政府啊,這個即將要提出來就是用災損啊,台風的災損經費啊,它會提報。我不曉得,工程會應該,是不是這一點啊,請那個陳主委能夠來予以支持。\n\n6\n00:01:52,373 --> 00:02:13,056\n謝謝委員這個是屬公共設施那因為是災損那如果說臺南市政府因為他經費不足有提報中央來支援的話那只要提報過來我們會盡速來安排現勘跟審查那麼審查通過之後就會請行政院撥款給臺南市政府自行發報\n\n7\n00:02:14,477 --> 00:02:40,210\n那我也會請台南市政府趕快送件那這件事情我要了解台南市政府大概相關相關的評估資料大概準備差不多了大概好像11月底左右會完成這些這個資料啦應該會送來我們會儘速來安排現判跟審查那很感謝主委對這事情也稍微有所掌握那請當台南市政府送案的時候後續的行政作業程序\n\n8\n00:02:41,831 --> 00:02:59,747\n來請工程部這邊能夠予以協助能夠盡速來完成審核趕快撥款趕快重建這條橋好不好好那我們就感謝陳主委好那陳主委請回主席本期邀請我們NCC今天是黃竹敏竹敏來\n\n9\n00:03:09,148 --> 00:03:13,677\n委員長請教一個關於民生的問題啦就是說我們一般啦\n\n10\n00:03:21,308 --> 00:03:24,391\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家通訊傳播委員會單位預算\n\n11\n00:03:42,301 --> 00:04:11,044\n只要不管你什麼東西只要有社評的產品我們有公告一個要管制的項目但是如果你賣的東西沒有經過審驗合格的電信管制社評器材那我們是有罰則的最高一件可以罰20萬但是我看我稍微了解一下這個受檢舉的案件非常多\n\n12\n00:04:12,605 --> 00:04:24,633\n你看每一年都有幾萬件2022年這種沒有經過審核就在市面上辦售的這些有色品的器材你看27766件2023年更多28500多件2024年今年大概到7月差不多半年就22000件左右\n\n13\n00:04:43,121 --> 00:05:11,575\n為什麼那麼多檢舉案件?有那麼多的黑心產品嗎?其實不是啦,因為大概他們都是在網路上面,有些廠商啊,互相在檢舉對方的啦。互相檢舉?跟委員報告,因為那個有一些就是有認證之後,但是他標示不清楚,但是我們的規範是要他標示那個合格標籤,所以檢舉案裡面也有內涵那個有合格標籤。那你也應該逐年降低吧,難道廠商都不知道啊?\n\n14\n00:05:12,535 --> 00:05:13,016\n檢舉28000多件,只採訪兩件。\n\n15\n00:05:35,855 --> 00:05:52,048\n我會很懷疑,你有能力處理兩、三萬件的檢舉案嗎?不可能啊。其實這裡面有很多是重複的啦。這是一個。那重複你為什麼數字會那麼高?因為他不同時間不同人檢舉案。這樣怎麼算重複?他本來就不能買嘛,不然重複是重複而已。\n\n16\n00:05:57,472 --> 00:06:12,973\n那你重複你的數字為什麼不扣掉這數字是你給我的應該是在那個產品本身他在標示上不清楚的時候他會再重新再上去在這種情形發生但是應該我們的受理件數裡面不會有這個重複\n\n17\n00:06:16,893 --> 00:06:28,382\n這裡應該說受理檢舉數那立案數其實是另外一個數字他沒有把這個立案數把他標出來也就是說你自己寫立案數你現在還在政府你這個檔案也很奇怪我現在質疑你數字為什麼這麼高你都沒有啦那寫不對的\n\n18\n00:06:36,289 --> 00:07:05,222\n因為如果假設真的這麼高的話那國內電波資訊一定亂七八糟那我們其實是不會啦那到底現在市面上販售的有色評的到底不合格的是不是像檢舉那麼多因為我們就像我們這個對不合格的部分我們實際上讓他下架大概是以我們這個111年跟112年你應該是要求他來檢驗合格吧對比如說他在電商上面賣那你要求電商把他下架\n\n19\n00:07:06,389 --> 00:07:14,979\n問題是他那個東西從別的管道賣那是不是可能一樣是沒有經過檢驗合格的東西有可能是啊\n\n20\n00:07:16,263 --> 00:07:19,366\n主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊\n\n21\n00:07:43,547 --> 00:07:44,768\n民眾如果向我們檢舉我們就會來裁罰\n\n22\n00:08:11,926 --> 00:08:32,963\n我知道啦,我想說你如果去買到啦,也不知道你買到沒經驗入家的東西會怎麼樣?買的部分我們沒有...不是啦,那這個產品有什麼危害啦?如果假設這個產品它所發射的電波啊,會干擾到其他的這些合法電波的使用的話,那其實是有危害啊,已經非常發生的就是那個...第一個它有電波干擾問題嘛\n\n23\n00:08:34,574 --> 00:08:36,695\n委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會\n\n24\n00:08:55,114 --> 00:08:56,694\n主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管\n\n25\n00:09:22,662 --> 00:09:40,023\n你只是叫他下架不要在這個不要在這個電商繼續賣委員這個下架也是很重要的策略那可能用其他管道再上架不行那個再上架的話再上架的話將來我們會啊就就賣家的這部分我們會啊看看要怎麼樣來處理來加強取締啦我先問你這個地方跟一些平台業者\n\n26\n00:09:41,385 --> 00:09:45,488\n議員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會\n\n27\n00:10:10,689 --> 00:10:10,970\n林俊憲委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n570\t15183\t謝謝主席。本席邀請我們工程會的陳主委。請陳主委。主委好。\n21358\t39011\t主委,這有一件事情需要請主委來協助幫忙支持這是在台南東山區有一條橋樑叫做東元二號橋它現在毀損非常嚴重主要就是昨天有一個風災,崑崙颱風把這個橋造成重大的一個傷害\n44335\t45696\t三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n64302\t84061\t這條橋很重要,因為它跨過龜松溪,附近大概有好幾百戶,至少300戶人家必須要靠這條橋進出。那更重要的是東山的這條東原二號橋,它是附近龍山坪,出了很重要的一個通道。\n85462\t110627\t東山啊,台南的東山啊,盛產柑橘類啊,我們的柑啊,柳丁椪柑,這個東山是最重要的產區啊。所以現在台南市政府啊,這個即將要提出來就是用災損啊,台風的災損經費啊,它會提報。我不曉得,工程會應該,是不是這一點啊,請那個陳主委能夠來予以支持。\n112373\t133056\t謝謝委員這個是屬公共設施那因為是災損那如果說臺南市政府因為他經費不足有提報中央來支援的話那只要提報過來我們會盡速來安排現勘跟審查那麼審查通過之後就會請行政院撥款給臺南市政府自行發報\n134477\t160210\t那我也會請台南市政府趕快送件那這件事情我要了解台南市政府大概相關相關的評估資料大概準備差不多了大概好像11月底左右會完成這些這個資料啦應該會送來我們會儘速來安排現判跟審查那很感謝主委對這事情也稍微有所掌握那請當台南市政府送案的時候後續的行政作業程序\n161831\t179747\t來請工程部這邊能夠予以協助能夠盡速來完成審核趕快撥款趕快重建這條橋好不好好那我們就感謝陳主委好那陳主委請回主席本期邀請我們NCC今天是黃竹敏竹敏來\n189148\t193677\t委員長請教一個關於民生的問題啦就是說我們一般啦\n201308\t204391\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家通訊傳播委員會單位預算\n222301\t251044\t只要不管你什麼東西只要有社評的產品我們有公告一個要管制的項目但是如果你賣的東西沒有經過審驗合格的電信管制社評器材那我們是有罰則的最高一件可以罰20萬但是我看我稍微了解一下這個受檢舉的案件非常多\n252605\t264633\t你看每一年都有幾萬件2022年這種沒有經過審核就在市面上辦售的這些有色品的器材你看27766件2023年更多28500多件2024年今年大概到7月差不多半年就22000件左右\n283121\t311575\t為什麼那麼多檢舉案件?有那麼多的黑心產品嗎?其實不是啦,因為大概他們都是在網路上面,有些廠商啊,互相在檢舉對方的啦。互相檢舉?跟委員報告,因為那個有一些就是有認證之後,但是他標示不清楚,但是我們的規範是要他標示那個合格標籤,所以檢舉案裡面也有內涵那個有合格標籤。那你也應該逐年降低吧,難道廠商都不知道啊?\n312535\t313016\t檢舉28000多件,只採訪兩件。\n335855\t352048\t我會很懷疑,你有能力處理兩、三萬件的檢舉案嗎?不可能啊。其實這裡面有很多是重複的啦。這是一個。那重複你為什麼數字會那麼高?因為他不同時間不同人檢舉案。這樣怎麼算重複?他本來就不能買嘛,不然重複是重複而已。\n357472\t372973\t那你重複你的數字為什麼不扣掉這數字是你給我的應該是在那個產品本身他在標示上不清楚的時候他會再重新再上去在這種情形發生但是應該我們的受理件數裡面不會有這個重複\n376893\t388382\t這裡應該說受理檢舉數那立案數其實是另外一個數字他沒有把這個立案數把他標出來也就是說你自己寫立案數你現在還在政府你這個檔案也很奇怪我現在質疑你數字為什麼這麼高你都沒有啦那寫不對的\n396289\t425222\t因為如果假設真的這麼高的話那國內電波資訊一定亂七八糟那我們其實是不會啦那到底現在市面上販售的有色評的到底不合格的是不是像檢舉那麼多因為我們就像我們這個對不合格的部分我們實際上讓他下架大概是以我們這個111年跟112年你應該是要求他來檢驗合格吧對比如說他在電商上面賣那你要求電商把他下架\n426389\t434979\t問題是他那個東西從別的管道賣那是不是可能一樣是沒有經過檢驗合格的東西有可能是啊\n436263\t439366\t主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊\n463547\t464768\t民眾如果向我們檢舉我們就會來裁罰\n491926\t512963\t我知道啦,我想說你如果去買到啦,也不知道你買到沒經驗入家的東西會怎麼樣?買的部分我們沒有...不是啦,那這個產品有什麼危害啦?如果假設這個產品它所發射的電波啊,會干擾到其他的這些合法電波的使用的話,那其實是有危害啊,已經非常發生的就是那個...第一個它有電波干擾問題嘛\n514574\t516695\t委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會\n535114\t536694\t主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管\n562662\t580023\t你只是叫他下架不要在這個不要在這個電商繼續賣委員這個下架也是很重要的策略那可能用其他管道再上架不行那個再上架的話再上架的話將來我們會啊就就賣家的這部分我們會啊看看要怎麼樣來處理來加強取締啦我先問你這個地方跟一些平台業者\n581385\t585488\t議員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會\n610689\t610970\t林俊憲委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席。本席邀請我們工程會的陳主委。請陳主委。主委好。\n主委,這有一件事情需要請主委來協助幫忙支持這是在台南東山區有一條橋樑叫做東元二號橋它現在毀損非常嚴重主要就是昨天有一個風災,崑崙颱風把這個橋造成重大的一個傷害\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n這條橋很重要,因為它跨過龜松溪,附近大概有好幾百戶,至少300戶人家必須要靠這條橋進出。那更重要的是東山的這條東原二號橋,它是附近龍山坪,出了很重要的一個通道。\n東山啊,台南的東山啊,盛產柑橘類啊,我們的柑啊,柳丁椪柑,這個東山是最重要的產區啊。所以現在台南市政府啊,這個即將要提出來就是用災損啊,台風的災損經費啊,它會提報。我不曉得,工程會應該,是不是這一點啊,請那個陳主委能夠來予以支持。\n謝謝委員這個是屬公共設施那因為是災損那如果說臺南市政府因為他經費不足有提報中央來支援的話那只要提報過來我們會盡速來安排現勘跟審查那麼審查通過之後就會請行政院撥款給臺南市政府自行發報\n那我也會請台南市政府趕快送件那這件事情我要了解台南市政府大概相關相關的評估資料大概準備差不多了大概好像11月底左右會完成這些這個資料啦應該會送來我們會儘速來安排現判跟審查那很感謝主委對這事情也稍微有所掌握那請當台南市政府送案的時候後續的行政作業程序\n來請工程部這邊能夠予以協助能夠盡速來完成審核趕快撥款趕快重建這條橋好不好好那我們就感謝陳主委好那陳主委請回主席本期邀請我們NCC今天是黃竹敏竹敏來\n委員長請教一個關於民生的問題啦就是說我們一般啦\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家通訊傳播委員會單位預算\n只要不管你什麼東西只要有社評的產品我們有公告一個要管制的項目但是如果你賣的東西沒有經過審驗合格的電信管制社評器材那我們是有罰則的最高一件可以罰20萬但是我看我稍微了解一下這個受檢舉的案件非常多\n你看每一年都有幾萬件2022年這種沒有經過審核就在市面上辦售的這些有色品的器材你看27766件2023年更多28500多件2024年今年大概到7月差不多半年就22000件左右\n為什麼那麼多檢舉案件?有那麼多的黑心產品嗎?其實不是啦,因為大概他們都是在網路上面,有些廠商啊,互相在檢舉對方的啦。互相檢舉?跟委員報告,因為那個有一些就是有認證之後,但是他標示不清楚,但是我們的規範是要他標示那個合格標籤,所以檢舉案裡面也有內涵那個有合格標籤。那你也應該逐年降低吧,難道廠商都不知道啊?\n檢舉28000多件,只採訪兩件。\n我會很懷疑,你有能力處理兩、三萬件的檢舉案嗎?不可能啊。其實這裡面有很多是重複的啦。這是一個。那重複你為什麼數字會那麼高?因為他不同時間不同人檢舉案。這樣怎麼算重複?他本來就不能買嘛,不然重複是重複而已。\n那你重複你的數字為什麼不扣掉這數字是你給我的應該是在那個產品本身他在標示上不清楚的時候他會再重新再上去在這種情形發生但是應該我們的受理件數裡面不會有這個重複\n這裡應該說受理檢舉數那立案數其實是另外一個數字他沒有把這個立案數把他標出來也就是說你自己寫立案數你現在還在政府你這個檔案也很奇怪我現在質疑你數字為什麼這麼高你都沒有啦那寫不對的\n因為如果假設真的這麼高的話那國內電波資訊一定亂七八糟那我們其實是不會啦那到底現在市面上販售的有色評的到底不合格的是不是像檢舉那麼多因為我們就像我們這個對不合格的部分我們實際上讓他下架大概是以我們這個111年跟112年你應該是要求他來檢驗合格吧對比如說他在電商上面賣那你要求電商把他下架\n問題是他那個東西從別的管道賣那是不是可能一樣是沒有經過檢驗合格的東西有可能是啊\n主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊\n民眾如果向我們檢舉我們就會來裁罰\n我知道啦,我想說你如果去買到啦,也不知道你買到沒經驗入家的東西會怎麼樣?買的部分我們沒有...不是啦,那這個產品有什麼危害啦?如果假設這個產品它所發射的電波啊,會干擾到其他的這些合法電波的使用的話,那其實是有危害啊,已經非常發生的就是那個...第一個它有電波干擾問題嘛\n委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會\n主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管\n你只是叫他下架不要在這個不要在這個電商繼續賣委員這個下架也是很重要的策略那可能用其他管道再上架不行那個再上架的話再上架的話將來我們會啊就就賣家的這部分我們會啊看看要怎麼樣來處理來加強取締啦我先問你這個地方跟一些平台業者\n議員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會\n林俊憲委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.570 --> 00:15.183\n謝謝主席。本席邀請我們工程會的陳主委。請陳主委。主委好。\n\n00:21.358 --> 00:39.011\n主委,這有一件事情需要請主委來協助幫忙支持這是在台南東山區有一條橋樑叫做東元二號橋它現在毀損非常嚴重主要就是昨天有一個風災,崑崙颱風把這個橋造成重大的一個傷害\n\n00:44.335 --> 00:45.696\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n\n01:04.302 --> 01:24.061\n這條橋很重要,因為它跨過龜松溪,附近大概有好幾百戶,至少300戶人家必須要靠這條橋進出。那更重要的是東山的這條東原二號橋,它是附近龍山坪,出了很重要的一個通道。\n\n01:25.462 --> 01:50.627\n東山啊,台南的東山啊,盛產柑橘類啊,我們的柑啊,柳丁椪柑,這個東山是最重要的產區啊。所以現在台南市政府啊,這個即將要提出來就是用災損啊,台風的災損經費啊,它會提報。我不曉得,工程會應該,是不是這一點啊,請那個陳主委能夠來予以支持。\n\n01:52.373 --> 02:13.056\n謝謝委員這個是屬公共設施那因為是災損那如果說臺南市政府因為他經費不足有提報中央來支援的話那只要提報過來我們會盡速來安排現勘跟審查那麼審查通過之後就會請行政院撥款給臺南市政府自行發報\n\n02:14.477 --> 02:40.210\n那我也會請台南市政府趕快送件那這件事情我要了解台南市政府大概相關相關的評估資料大概準備差不多了大概好像11月底左右會完成這些這個資料啦應該會送來我們會儘速來安排現判跟審查那很感謝主委對這事情也稍微有所掌握那請當台南市政府送案的時候後續的行政作業程序\n\n02:41.831 --> 02:59.747\n來請工程部這邊能夠予以協助能夠盡速來完成審核趕快撥款趕快重建這條橋好不好好那我們就感謝陳主委好那陳主委請回主席本期邀請我們NCC今天是黃竹敏竹敏來\n\n03:09.148 --> 03:13.677\n委員長請教一個關於民生的問題啦就是說我們一般啦\n\n03:21.308 --> 03:24.391\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家通訊傳播委員會單位預算\n\n03:42.301 --> 04:11.044\n只要不管你什麼東西只要有社評的產品我們有公告一個要管制的項目但是如果你賣的東西沒有經過審驗合格的電信管制社評器材那我們是有罰則的最高一件可以罰20萬但是我看我稍微了解一下這個受檢舉的案件非常多\n\n04:12.605 --> 04:24.633\n你看每一年都有幾萬件2022年這種沒有經過審核就在市面上辦售的這些有色品的器材你看27766件2023年更多28500多件2024年今年大概到7月差不多半年就22000件左右\n\n04:43.121 --> 05:11.575\n為什麼那麼多檢舉案件?有那麼多的黑心產品嗎?其實不是啦,因為大概他們都是在網路上面,有些廠商啊,互相在檢舉對方的啦。互相檢舉?跟委員報告,因為那個有一些就是有認證之後,但是他標示不清楚,但是我們的規範是要他標示那個合格標籤,所以檢舉案裡面也有內涵那個有合格標籤。那你也應該逐年降低吧,難道廠商都不知道啊?\n\n05:12.535 --> 05:13.016\n檢舉28000多件,只採訪兩件。\n\n05:35.855 --> 05:52.048\n我會很懷疑,你有能力處理兩、三萬件的檢舉案嗎?不可能啊。其實這裡面有很多是重複的啦。這是一個。那重複你為什麼數字會那麼高?因為他不同時間不同人檢舉案。這樣怎麼算重複?他本來就不能買嘛,不然重複是重複而已。\n\n05:57.472 --> 06:12.973\n那你重複你的數字為什麼不扣掉這數字是你給我的應該是在那個產品本身他在標示上不清楚的時候他會再重新再上去在這種情形發生但是應該我們的受理件數裡面不會有這個重複\n\n06:16.893 --> 06:28.382\n這裡應該說受理檢舉數那立案數其實是另外一個數字他沒有把這個立案數把他標出來也就是說你自己寫立案數你現在還在政府你這個檔案也很奇怪我現在質疑你數字為什麼這麼高你都沒有啦那寫不對的\n\n06:36.289 --> 07:05.222\n因為如果假設真的這麼高的話那國內電波資訊一定亂七八糟那我們其實是不會啦那到底現在市面上販售的有色評的到底不合格的是不是像檢舉那麼多因為我們就像我們這個對不合格的部分我們實際上讓他下架大概是以我們這個111年跟112年你應該是要求他來檢驗合格吧對比如說他在電商上面賣那你要求電商把他下架\n\n07:06.389 --> 07:14.979\n問題是他那個東西從別的管道賣那是不是可能一樣是沒有經過檢驗合格的東西有可能是啊\n\n07:16.263 --> 07:19.366\n主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊\n\n07:43.547 --> 07:44.768\n民眾如果向我們檢舉我們就會來裁罰\n\n08:11.926 --> 08:32.963\n我知道啦,我想說你如果去買到啦,也不知道你買到沒經驗入家的東西會怎麼樣?買的部分我們沒有...不是啦,那這個產品有什麼危害啦?如果假設這個產品它所發射的電波啊,會干擾到其他的這些合法電波的使用的話,那其實是有危害啊,已經非常發生的就是那個...第一個它有電波干擾問題嘛\n\n08:34.574 --> 08:36.695\n委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會\n\n08:55.114 --> 08:56.694\n主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管\n\n09:22.662 --> 09:40.023\n你只是叫他下架不要在這個不要在這個電商繼續賣委員這個下架也是很重要的策略那可能用其他管道再上架不行那個再上架的話再上架的話將來我們會啊就就賣家的這部分我們會啊看看要怎麼樣來處理來加強取締啦我先問你這個地方跟一些平台業者\n\n09:41.385 --> 09:45.488\n議員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會\n\n10:10.689 --> 10:10.970\n林俊憲委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.57,"end":15.183,"text":"謝謝主席。本席邀請我們工程會的陳主委。請陳主委。主委好。"},{"start":21.358,"end":39.011,"text":"主委,這有一件事情需要請主委來協助幫忙支持這是在台南東山區有一條橋樑叫做東元二號橋它現在毀損非常嚴重主要就是昨天有一個風災,崑崙颱風把這個橋造成重大的一個傷害"},{"start":44.335,"end":45.696,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":64.302,"end":84.061,"text":"這條橋很重要,因為它跨過龜松溪,附近大概有好幾百戶,至少300戶人家必須要靠這條橋進出。那更重要的是東山的這條東原二號橋,它是附近龍山坪,出了很重要的一個通道。"},{"start":85.462,"end":110.627,"text":"東山啊,台南的東山啊,盛產柑橘類啊,我們的柑啊,柳丁椪柑,這個東山是最重要的產區啊。所以現在台南市政府啊,這個即將要提出來就是用災損啊,台風的災損經費啊,它會提報。我不曉得,工程會應該,是不是這一點啊,請那個陳主委能夠來予以支持。"},{"start":112.373,"end":133.056,"text":"謝謝委員這個是屬公共設施那因為是災損那如果說臺南市政府因為他經費不足有提報中央來支援的話那只要提報過來我們會盡速來安排現勘跟審查那麼審查通過之後就會請行政院撥款給臺南市政府自行發報"},{"start":134.477,"end":160.21,"text":"那我也會請台南市政府趕快送件那這件事情我要了解台南市政府大概相關相關的評估資料大概準備差不多了大概好像11月底左右會完成這些這個資料啦應該會送來我們會儘速來安排現判跟審查那很感謝主委對這事情也稍微有所掌握那請當台南市政府送案的時候後續的行政作業程序"},{"start":161.831,"end":179.747,"text":"來請工程部這邊能夠予以協助能夠盡速來完成審核趕快撥款趕快重建這條橋好不好好那我們就感謝陳主委好那陳主委請回主席本期邀請我們NCC今天是黃竹敏竹敏來"},{"start":189.148,"end":193.677,"text":"委員長請教一個關於民生的問題啦就是說我們一般啦"},{"start":201.308,"end":204.391,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家通訊傳播委員會單位預算"},{"start":222.301,"end":251.044,"text":"只要不管你什麼東西只要有社評的產品我們有公告一個要管制的項目但是如果你賣的東西沒有經過審驗合格的電信管制社評器材那我們是有罰則的最高一件可以罰20萬但是我看我稍微了解一下這個受檢舉的案件非常多"},{"start":252.605,"end":264.633,"text":"你看每一年都有幾萬件2022年這種沒有經過審核就在市面上辦售的這些有色品的器材你看27766件2023年更多28500多件2024年今年大概到7月差不多半年就22000件左右"},{"start":283.121,"end":311.575,"text":"為什麼那麼多檢舉案件?有那麼多的黑心產品嗎?其實不是啦,因為大概他們都是在網路上面,有些廠商啊,互相在檢舉對方的啦。互相檢舉?跟委員報告,因為那個有一些就是有認證之後,但是他標示不清楚,但是我們的規範是要他標示那個合格標籤,所以檢舉案裡面也有內涵那個有合格標籤。那你也應該逐年降低吧,難道廠商都不知道啊?"},{"start":312.535,"end":313.016,"text":"檢舉28000多件,只採訪兩件。"},{"start":335.855,"end":352.048,"text":"我會很懷疑,你有能力處理兩、三萬件的檢舉案嗎?不可能啊。其實這裡面有很多是重複的啦。這是一個。那重複你為什麼數字會那麼高?因為他不同時間不同人檢舉案。這樣怎麼算重複?他本來就不能買嘛,不然重複是重複而已。"},{"start":357.472,"end":372.973,"text":"那你重複你的數字為什麼不扣掉這數字是你給我的應該是在那個產品本身他在標示上不清楚的時候他會再重新再上去在這種情形發生但是應該我們的受理件數裡面不會有這個重複"},{"start":376.893,"end":388.382,"text":"這裡應該說受理檢舉數那立案數其實是另外一個數字他沒有把這個立案數把他標出來也就是說你自己寫立案數你現在還在政府你這個檔案也很奇怪我現在質疑你數字為什麼這麼高你都沒有啦那寫不對的"},{"start":396.289,"end":425.222,"text":"因為如果假設真的這麼高的話那國內電波資訊一定亂七八糟那我們其實是不會啦那到底現在市面上販售的有色評的到底不合格的是不是像檢舉那麼多因為我們就像我們這個對不合格的部分我們實際上讓他下架大概是以我們這個111年跟112年你應該是要求他來檢驗合格吧對比如說他在電商上面賣那你要求電商把他下架"},{"start":426.389,"end":434.979,"text":"問題是他那個東西從別的管道賣那是不是可能一樣是沒有經過檢驗合格的東西有可能是啊"},{"start":436.263,"end":439.366,"text":"主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊"},{"start":463.547,"end":464.768,"text":"民眾如果向我們檢舉我們就會來裁罰"},{"start":491.926,"end":512.963,"text":"我知道啦,我想說你如果去買到啦,也不知道你買到沒經驗入家的東西會怎麼樣?買的部分我們沒有...不是啦,那這個產品有什麼危害啦?如果假設這個產品它所發射的電波啊,會干擾到其他的這些合法電波的使用的話,那其實是有危害啊,已經非常發生的就是那個...第一個它有電波干擾問題嘛"},{"start":514.574,"end":516.695,"text":"委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會"},{"start":535.114,"end":536.694,"text":"主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管"},{"start":562.662,"end":580.023,"text":"你只是叫他下架不要在這個不要在這個電商繼續賣委員這個下架也是很重要的策略那可能用其他管道再上架不行那個再上架的話再上架的話將來我們會啊就就賣家的這部分我們會啊看看要怎麼樣來處理來加強取締啦我先問你這個地方跟一些平台業者"},{"start":581.385,"end":585.488,"text":"議員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會"},{"start":610.689,"end":610.97,"text":"林俊憲委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":397,"blocks":[["林委員俊憲：（10時24分）謝謝主席，本席邀請工程委員會陳主委。"],["主席：請陳主委。"],["陳主任委員金德：委員早。"],["林委員俊憲：主委好。主委，有一件事情需要請主委來協助幫忙支持，臺南東山區有一座橋梁叫做東原2號橋，它現在毀損非常嚴重，主要就是10月有一個颱風康芮颱風，對這座橋梁造成重大的傷害，然後最近又有連續的地震，所以現在整個橋梁的橋墩，你看它的橋面已經斷裂了，橋墩也已經扭曲了，所以現在這座橋封閉了，已經封起來沒有辦法再通行了。但是這條橋很重要，因為它跨過龜重溪，附近大概有好幾百戶，至少三百戶人家必須要靠這條橋進出，更重要的是東山的這條東原2號橋是附近農產品出入很重要的一個通道。臺南的東山盛產柑橘類，柑橘、柳丁、椪柑，東山是最重要的產區，所以現在臺南市政府即將要提出來用災損，就是颱風的災損經費來提報，我不曉得工程會，是不是這一點請陳主委能夠來予以支持？"],["陳主任委員金德：謝謝委員。這是屬於公共設施，因為是災損，如果臺南市政府因為經費不足，有提報中央來支援的話，只要提報過來，我們會儘速來安排現勘跟審查，審查通過之後，行政院就會撥款給臺南市政府自行發包。"],["林委員俊憲：好，那我也會請臺南市政府趕快送件。"],["陳主任委員金德：好。"],["林委員俊憲：這件事情就我了解，臺南市政府相關的評估資料大概也準備得差不多了。"],["陳主任委員金德：大概好像11月底左右會完成這些資料，應該會送來，我們會儘速來安排現勘跟審查。"],["林委員俊憲：好。很感謝主委對這件事情也稍微有所掌握，當臺南市政府送案的時候，後續的行政作業程序也請工程會能夠予以協助，儘速完成審核趕快撥款，趕快來重建這條橋，好不好？"],["陳主任委員金德：好。"],["林委員俊憲：那我們就感謝陳主委，陳主委請回。","主席，本席邀請NCC黃主秘。主秘，你來。"],["主席：請黃主秘。"],["黃主任秘書文哲：委員早。"],["林委員俊憲：主秘，辛苦了。"],["黃主任秘書文哲：應該的，分內之事。"],["林委員俊憲：請教一個關於民生的問題，一般我們買的電子設備，就算個人用品，只要有射頻，就是有WiFi、有藍牙，其實基本上這些產品都必須先送NCC審核通過，對不對？"],["黃主任秘書文哲：是。"],["林委員俊憲：按照電信管理法第六十六條第一項規定，這種有射頻的，不管什麼東西，只要有射頻的產品……"],["黃主任秘書文哲：是，我們有公告要管制的項目，並不是所有的。"],["林委員俊憲：我知道。如果你賣的東西是沒有經過審驗合格的電信管制射頻器材，我們是有罰則的，最高一件可以罰20萬。"],["黃主任秘書文哲：是。"],["林委員俊憲：但是我稍微了解了一下，這部分受理檢舉的案件非常多，你看每一年都有幾萬件。"],["黃主任秘書文哲：是。"],["林委員俊憲：2022年沒有經過審核就在市面販售的有射頻的器材，你看受理檢舉案件有2萬7,766件，2023年更多，高達兩萬八千五百多件，2024年（今年）大概到7月，差不多半年就有兩萬兩千件左右，為什麼那麼多檢舉案件？有那麼多的黑心產品嗎？"],["黃主任秘書文哲：其實不是，因為大概他們都是在網路上面，有些廠商互相在檢舉對方的，這種很多。"],["林委員俊憲：互相檢舉？"],["黃主任秘書文哲：對。"],["蔡處長國棟：跟委員報告，因為那部分有一些是經過認證之後，但是標示不清楚，而我們的規範是它要標示合格標籤，所以這些檢舉案裡面也有內含有合格標籤的……"],["林委員俊憲：那違法的案件也應該逐年降低吧？難道廠商都不知道嗎？廠商也知道……"],["蔡處長國棟：廠商我們這一段就是……"],["林委員俊憲：這種程序應該怎麼走，對不對？那每一年受理檢舉案數量都居高不下，然後裁罰的案件又特別少。"],["蔡處長國棟：我們有協調數位部，針對電商平臺上面在揭露的事情可以幫忙，然後另外跟海關那邊……"],["林委員俊憲：你看，檢舉兩萬八千多件，只裁罰2件。"],["黃主任秘書文哲：我們其實……"],["林委員俊憲：我也很懷疑，你有能力處理兩、三萬件的檢舉案嗎？這不可能。"],["黃主任秘書文哲：其實這裡面有很多是重複的，這是一個。第二個……"],["林委員俊憲：那重複，為什麼數字會那麼高？"],["黃主任秘書文哲：因為它是不同時間、不同人檢舉同一個產品……"],["林委員俊憲：這樣哪有算重複？它本來就不能賣嘛。不然你說重複，有多少數量是重複的？既然重複，你的數字為什麼不扣掉？"],["蔡處長國棟：沒有重複的……"],["林委員俊憲：這個數字是你給我的！"],["蔡處長國棟：對，應該是在那個產品本身，它在標示上不清楚的時候，它會重新再上去，在這種情形發生，但是應該我們的受理件數裡面不會有所謂重複。"],["黃主任秘書文哲：就是這裡應該說是「受理檢舉數」，那「立案數」其實是另外一個數字，它沒有把這個立案數標出來，也就是說……"],["林委員俊憲：你自己是寫「立案數」，這都是你給我們的資料，你現在還在爭辯說沒有……"],["黃主任秘書文哲：是啦！是啦！"],["林委員俊憲：你們這個單位也很奇怪……"],["黃主任秘書文哲：「歹勢」、「歹勢」，因為這個……"],["林委員俊憲：我現在質疑你數字為什麼這麼高，你說沒有，那個寫得不對。"],["黃主任秘書文哲：是，假設真有這麼高的話，那國內電波資訊一定亂七八糟，那我們發現其實是不會啦。"],["林委員俊憲：是啊。那現在市面上販售的有射頻的器材，到底不合格的是不是像檢舉的那麼多？"],["蔡處長國棟：針對不合格的部分，我們實際上讓它下架大概是兩……以111年跟112年……"],["林委員俊憲：你應該是要求它要來檢驗合格吧？"],["蔡處長國棟：對，我們會……"],["林委員俊憲：比如它在電商上面賣，你要求電商把它下架，問題是它那個東西從別的管道賣，是不是可能一樣是沒有經過檢驗合格的東西？"],["蔡處長國棟：有可能，對。"],["林委員俊憲：是啊！你只是眼不見為淨，你叫他下架不能賣而已，他去別處賣，你自己也不知道。"],["蔡處長國棟：所以我們就是……對，所以我們多次，像明天數位部就會針對電商平臺，對於違規或違禁品……"],["林委員俊憲：只有電商平臺在賣嗎？沒有其他的通路嗎？"],["蔡處長國棟：不只、不只，還有其他的管道，那現在的大宗是在電商平臺。"],["林委員俊憲：是啊。"],["黃主任秘書文哲：跟委員報告，實體通路部分的話，我們會直接連那個賣場都要負責，所以目前透過實體通路販售的反而是比較少的。"],["林委員俊憲：好，那表示市面上有很多未經檢驗合格的、具有射頻的產品在四處流動販售。我再問你，如果買到沒有檢驗合格的會怎麼樣？"],["蔡處長國棟：如果民眾買到之後向我們檢舉，我們就會來裁罰。"],["林委員俊憲：我知道，我是說你如果去買到，萬一你買到沒有檢驗合格的東西會怎樣？"],["黃主任秘書文哲：買的部分我們沒有，我們……"],["蔡處長國棟：沒有罰則。"],["林委員俊憲：不是啦！我問的是這個產品有什麼危害啦。"],["黃主任秘書文哲：如果假設這個產品它有發射電波，會干擾到其他的這些合法電波的使用的話，其實是有危害的，以前最常發生的就是那個……"],["林委員俊憲：對，第一個它有電波干擾的問題嘛。"],["黃主任秘書文哲：是。"],["林委員俊憲：會不會有什麼個資的問題，也沒人知道嘛？"],["蔡處長國棟：個資，因為那是資安上的問題，我們處理的是電波干擾的問題……"],["林委員俊憲：會不會有資安上的問題，也是隱憂嘛？"],["黃主任秘書文哲：個資問題的話，事實上最多的就是最近在講的偽基地台。"],["林委員俊憲：我是要跟你說，這個問題看起來你沒有處理，這樣看的話，你只是叫它下架而已。"],["黃主任秘書文哲：不是，這個還是會有處罰，不是只有下架。"],["林委員俊憲：我知道你有處罰，一年罰2件。"],["黃主任秘書文哲：是，因為我們主要……"],["林委員俊憲：檢舉數量兩萬七千多件，你只罰2件。"],["黃主任秘書文哲：沒有，可能要把這個數字要再弄正確。"],["林委員俊憲：那你這樣也算有處理喔？罰款國庫收入5萬。"],["黃主任秘書文哲：不是，跟委員報告，最主要是我們不要讓電波秩序遭受到危害，處罰其實是手段，假設你……"],["林委員俊憲：當然你不要讓它造成危害，問題是你只叫它下架，不要在這個電商繼續賣……"],["黃主任秘書文哲：委員，這個下架也是很重要的措施。"],["林委員俊憲：那它可能用其他的管道再上架。"],["黃主任秘書文哲：不行，那個再上架的話……"],["林委員俊憲：你怎麼知道？"],["黃主任秘書文哲：再上架的話，將來我們會就賣家的部分看看要怎麼樣來處理，來加強取締。"],["林委員俊憲：我希望你這個地方跟一些平臺業者要再密切合作一下……"],["黃主任秘書文哲：是，了解。"],["林委員俊憲：它不是下架而已，這個廠商應該要通報吧！"],["黃主任秘書文哲：是，我們就……"],["林委員俊憲：你應該直接警告這個廠商，告訴他你已經賣了一個沒有經過檢驗、非法的東西，請你要趕快送驗，你如果再賣的話，我只要再看到，我就處罰你。"],["黃主任秘書文哲：是是是，就這個部分的話，可能我們自己在法令上也要再研究一下，也就是賣的跟協助賣的要不要負責任，這部分我們會再研究。"],["林委員俊憲：好，因為時間的問題，謝謝主秘。謝謝主席。"],["黃主任秘書文哲：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林俊憲委員的發言。我們現在休息10分鐘。","休息（10時34分）","繼續開會（10時44分）"],["主席：現在繼續開會。","接下來邀請黃健豪委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":134,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-12","speakers":["陳素月","林國成","李昆澤","魯明哲","林沛祥","許智傑","林俊憲","黃健豪","廖先翔","徐富癸","林淑芬","蔡其昌","游顥","邱若華","何欣純","賴士葆","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","林月琴","羅智強","葉元之","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","王鴻薇"],"page_start":55,"meetingDate":["2024-11-28"],"gazette_id":"11310801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於行政院公共工程委員會單位預算；二、審查114年度中央\n政府總預算案關於國家通訊傳播委員會單位預算；三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位\n預算非營業部分關於國家通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播監督管理基金預算；四、審查114年度中\n央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於國家通訊傳播委員會主管有線廣播電視事業發展基\n金預算；五、審查113 年度中央政府總預算關於國家通訊傳播委員會預算凍結書面報告案計 2 案\n（第一案至第四案僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11310801_00002"}}}