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\"更\", \"start\": 644.932, \"end\": 644.952, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 644.952, \"end\": 645.012, \"score\": 0.617}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 645.012, \"end\": 645.032, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"期\", \"start\": 645.032, \"end\": 645.052, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"待\", \"start\": 645.052, \"end\": 645.072, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 645.072, \"end\": 645.092, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,009 --> 00:00:04,030\n謝謝主席麻煩請林部長請林部長部長早委員好部長剛剛您在來委員會之前有先進了總統府嘛那在建了高層以後對於台灣加入CPTPP被擱置的這個問題是不是有討論在剛剛\n\n2\n00:00:31,246 --> 00:00:49,001\n正確台灣爭取加入CPT一直都有在推動也有在跟府院報告那現在行政院總談判代表楊振尼政委他也都在協調跨部會\n\n3\n00:00:50,202 --> 00:01:01,277\n部長我知道我現在是說因為這個才剛出現的新聞那在您來之前因為是重要的會議那也是例行性的可是這個議題有沒有被討論然後討論了什麼\n\n4\n00:01:06,866 --> 00:01:34,865\n最主要是針對出訪相關的安排所以CPTPP被擱置的這部分你們聯談我們另外有討論在行政院的層次所以今天沒有談我們談判總代表還有我們跨部會都有針對這兩天密切注意這個裡面就涉及到不是我們已經確定被擱置了嗎我們就事論事就是所謂擱置我跟委員報所謂擱置不是他是要成立工作小組才能夠進入具體的協商\n\n5\n00:01:35,906 --> 00:01:49,391\n包括雙邊的那現在也可以展開就是前協商的協商我想大家都已經在這些事務上面尤其在外交事務上我相信你也非常熟悉所以我們不用再去講這些細節現在出來的消息因為包括主辦的加拿大其實他們也都提出這樣子還有所有的成員國\n\n6\n00:01:58,814 --> 00:02:02,735\n其實都已經有提到這樣就是說我們在這一次這個案子其實我們本來我們也是滿懷希望因為我們之前要去之前也是說加拿大這一次應該由他們來在他那裡主辦的話對我們是有史以來可能最友善最有利的一個條件可是他現在被擱置其實這就是事實\n\n7\n00:02:22,060 --> 00:02:33,910\n我們現在想要知道的是我們應該要怎麼做因為剛剛如果CPTPP被擱置這樣的問題因為包括顯然我不知道您就部長的回答是我們剛剛是沒有談這個問題是嗎\n\n8\n00:02:36,567 --> 00:02:40,970\n我跟委員報告因為就是我沒有擱置這個問題是因為他如果我們是申請不管先後他要成立工作小組部長我們沒有要在這裡討論這個因為這個不是我們這裡可以決定的我現在要知道的是當我們目前至少到目前你說他還在開到目前為止我們是被擱置的狀況我們在剛剛在府院在大家討論的時候有沒有提到我們應該要怎麼去因應\n\n9\n00:03:06,464 --> 00:03:17,351\n這個部分有沒有?剛剛我到府內沒有討論CPTPP這是行政院總談判代表跨部會的我們都只有一個群組在進行那我跟委員講齁我們去申請他必須要成立工作小組然後現在他開放\n\n10\n00:03:23,114 --> 00:03:26,818\n部長這個我們知道這個我們知道我們現在只看結果現在目前我們得到訊息是這樣如果說剛剛我們本來以為這個是非常重要因為每次在審預算或者在對國人提到CPTPP的時候這個對於我們面對因為CPTPP所有的\n\n11\n00:03:43,895 --> 00:03:46,276\n這個成員組織其實它已經占了所有全球經濟的15%而且是我們很重要的一個機會因為我們沒有機會參加其他的這些貿易組織不容易所以我們把機會或者希望都放在這裡那你現在如果說已經面臨到說這個案子被擱置\n\n12\n00:04:03,860 --> 00:04:21,316\n我們還沒有在這麼重要的一個會議上面做討論我不知道為什麼你要編這麼高額的預算因為顯然他不被重視或不重要是這樣嗎我跟委員講不是被擱置我要清楚的說明他是要我們目前接觸的對象國家都是支持的\n\n13\n00:04:22,017 --> 00:04:30,122\n只是他必須要成立工作小組這一步那因為生前奧克蘭三原則之後加拿大有一個解釋讓我們可以成立preconsultation部長我們現在收到的訊息包括外媒包括我們自己國內的媒體就是這麼說那你要去講工作小組那到最後如果沒有你要怎麼說我們現在要講的是\n\n14\n00:04:45,031 --> 00:04:47,053\n蔡前總統曾經形容加入CPTPP是台灣邁向全球自由貿易關鍵的一步如果這個是你們剛剛你不好在這裡說你們剛剛有討論或者你們根本連討論都沒有我認為其實我們討論只是在剛剛那個場合\n\n15\n00:05:04,105 --> 00:05:09,889\n已經有這樣子的一個高期待因為我們進了美牛我們進了美豬我們連核食我們所有的還包括跟美國並沒有在CPTPP裡面啦我們是跟台北市21世紀貿易當役部長你面對問題去解決問題我們一直希望\n\n16\n00:05:22,677 --> 00:05:27,200\n我希望委員能夠來瞭解問題啦我知道問題啊你的問題啊問題是美國本來是有的啊他是退掉了嘛沒有啦他是TPP啦不是CPTPP啦我知道美國是TPP現在因為他退出才是由日本下去他們做這樣的主導你要去講這個部分顯然你怕面對問題因為如果另外具體的消息台灣在報告\n\n17\n00:05:54,838 --> 00:05:58,602\n我希望你們尊重我們這樣子的我們一直很希望你可以就這個問題來回答我就要回答啊你剛剛回答是回答什麼你不要留那麼多錢\n\n18\n00:06:10,453 --> 00:06:14,094\n中國一直都會是一個問題台灣跟中國是因為政治的議題然後就被擱置了中國不會消失所以外媒就是這麼說那你去跟外媒說你不用跟我說我們看到的就是這樣那你的結果你的什麼資訊你現在就是有被討論嗎你有被討論嗎你有被討論嗎如果這一次如果我們沒有被納入討論我們甚至還是被擱置你要不要下台\n\n19\n00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:42,162\n委員你誤會了問題我幫你說明我不是誤會問題我現在在理解問題你今天如果你當一個外交部長然後只是會宣傳你到立陶宛去或者帶了這樣的一個歐洲像我們\n\n20\n00:06:55,332 --> 00:07:00,256\n你到立法院去然後我們再問這個問題CPTPP現在已經要審預算的一個階段如果你用這樣的態度我覺得你在敷衍我們你比較急一點喔我沒有急阿我剛剛是很溫和的問\n\n21\n00:07:13,286 --> 00:07:33,073\n這是因為你一直在輕忽我們的問題沒有我是很誠懇啊我做過立委我知道我真的很想跟委員對話那你可以講啊好現在讓你講就是說他有一個程序要成立工作小組我們現在爭取大部分的國家我們接觸都支持沒有反對所以有一些報導是錯誤的\n\n22\n00:07:34,614 --> 00:07:58,975\n那據說能夠成立工作小組因為有共識絕的問題（哪一個報導是錯誤的（就是所謂的被擱置（他要全部共識支持嘛對不對現在加拿大今年做組（加拿大有討論這個案子嗎我跟委員說明加拿大今年有一個解釋五月的時候做出來的就是說在成立正式工作小組之間也可以做諮商所以我們台灣現在跟有一半的國家都諮商他們都支持可是還沒有到絕對多數新加坡跟馬來西亞有沒有支持\n\n23\n00:07:59,295 --> 00:07:59,856\n阿富汗三原則\n\n24\n00:08:17,077 --> 00:08:30,403\n對解釋一下反對者要提理由因為他們都沒有理由所以也沒有對台灣反對他們有沒有支持啦所以支持是要成立工作小組這件事情要在大會裡面去決定那你覺得為什麼他們這一次為什麼這一次\n\n25\n00:08:37,907 --> 00:09:05,414\n加拿大的說法他們說目前準備最充分的其實就是台灣跟哥斯大黎加可是哥斯大黎加已經被同意了那你覺得最大的原因是什麼其實齁都被同意啦阿只是你有被同意嗎台灣我們有被同意啦哥斯大黎加哥斯大黎加可不可以參加他要成立工作小組哥斯大黎加可不可以參加目前成立工作小組去審查哥斯大黎加可不可以參加\n\n26\n00:09:07,603 --> 00:09:29,091\n哥斯大力家可不可以參加因為他就這幾個嘛都可以申請啦要成立工作小組才能審查啦哥斯大力家可不可以參加都有資格去申請啦他可以參加嗎這一次到目前為止就你得到的資訊有沒有因為我們有派人在CPTPP我們有派人在CPTPP哥斯大力家有沒有被同意的\n\n27\n00:09:30,037 --> 00:09:40,515\n委員現在是進行程序性還沒有進到實質審查至少目前他們已經有被討論他是不是已經有基本上有被同意因為所有的都有共識是不是是不是啊如果委員給我一分鐘我給你全世界\n\n28\n00:09:44,571 --> 00:09:51,715\n你不用給我全世界你只要給台灣人有機會進入CPTPP這個是有期待的目的可以達成可是現在顯然聽你講話我們沒有辦法做這樣的期待原來其實我跟你\n\n29\n00:10:00,981 --> 00:10:01,201\n我現在說的是\n\n30\n00:10:19,630 --> 00:10:26,857\n我們現在有兩個國家（包括中國（包括我們台灣（他現在就是因為台灣跟中國有陣地的問題（所以我們讓擱置（這種的行為（已經都是已經存在的問題（你也都不敢回答（你不可以繼續去處理這些事情（\n\n31\n00:10:39,508 --> 00:10:45,092\n臺灣是一樣的程度我們也是準備的非常充分可是我們沒有的原因是因為政治的問題所以你必須要面對問題你是新上任的我們本來期待你有一個新的作為然後可以好好的做可是顯然也不是那一分鐘麻煩你用書面給大家交代你不用給我全世界麻煩你給臺灣人更大的期待跟機會謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9\t4030\t謝謝主席麻煩請林部長請林部長部長早委員好部長剛剛您在來委員會之前有先進了總統府嘛那在建了高層以後對於台灣加入CPTPP被擱置的這個問題是不是有討論在剛剛\n31246\t49001\t正確台灣爭取加入CPT一直都有在推動也有在跟府院報告那現在行政院總談判代表楊振尼政委他也都在協調跨部會\n50202\t61277\t部長我知道我現在是說因為這個才剛出現的新聞那在您來之前因為是重要的會議那也是例行性的可是這個議題有沒有被討論然後討論了什麼\n66866\t94865\t最主要是針對出訪相關的安排所以CPTPP被擱置的這部分你們聯談我們另外有討論在行政院的層次所以今天沒有談我們談判總代表還有我們跨部會都有針對這兩天密切注意這個裡面就涉及到不是我們已經確定被擱置了嗎我們就事論事就是所謂擱置我跟委員報所謂擱置不是他是要成立工作小組才能夠進入具體的協商\n95906\t109391\t包括 雙邊的那現在也可以展開就是前協商的協商我想大家都已經在這些事務上面尤其在外交事務上我相信你也非常熟悉所以我們不用再去講這些細節現在出來的消息因為包括主辦的加拿大其實他們也都提出這樣子還有所有的成員國\n118814\t122735\t其實都已經有提到這樣就是說我們在這一次這個案子其實我們本來我們也是滿懷希望因為我們之前要去之前也是說加拿大這一次應該由他們來在他那裡主辦的話對我們是有史以來可能最友善最有利的一個條件可是他現在被擱置其實這就是事實\n142060\t153910\t我們現在想要知道的是我們應該要怎麼做因為剛剛如果CPTPP被擱置這樣的問題因為包括顯然我不知道您就部長的回答是我們剛剛是沒有談這個問題是嗎\n156567\t160970\t我跟委員報告因為就是我沒有擱置這個問題是因為他如果我們是申請不管先後他要成立工作小組部長我們沒有要在這裡討論這個因為這個不是我們這裡可以決定的我現在要知道的是當我們目前至少到目前你說他還在開到目前為止我們是被擱置的狀況我們在剛剛在府院在大家討論的時候有沒有提到我們應該要怎麼去因應\n186464\t197351\t這個部分有沒有?剛剛我到府內沒有討論CPTPP這是行政院總談判代表跨部會的我們都只有一個群組在進行那我跟委員講齁我們去申請他必須要成立工作小組然後現在他開放\n203114\t206818\t部長這個我們知道這個我們知道我們現在只看結果現在目前我們得到訊息是這樣如果說剛剛我們本來以為這個是非常重要因為每次在審預算或者在對國人提到CPTPP的時候這個對於我們面對因為CPTPP所有的\n223895\t226276\t這個成員組織其實它已經占了所有全球經濟的15%而且是我們很重要的一個機會因為我們沒有機會參加其他的這些貿易組織不容易所以我們把機會或者希望都放在這裡那你現在如果說已經面臨到說這個案子被擱置\n243860\t261316\t我們還沒有在這麼重要的一個會議上面做討論我不知道為什麼你要編這麼高額的預算因為顯然他不被重視或不重要是這樣嗎我跟委員講不是被擱置我要清楚的說明他是要我們目前接觸的對象國家都是支持的\n262017\t270122\t只是他必須要成立工作小組這一步那因為生前奧克蘭三原則之後加拿大有一個解釋讓我們可以成立pre consultation部長我們現在收到的訊息包括外媒包括我們自己國內的媒體就是這麼說那你要去講工作小組那到最後如果沒有你要怎麼說我們現在要講的是\n285031\t287053\t蔡前總統曾經形容加入CPTPP是台灣邁向全球自由貿易關鍵的一步如果這個是你們剛剛你不好在這裡說你們剛剛有討論或者你們根本連討論都沒有我認為其實我們討論只是在剛剛那個場合\n304105\t309889\t已經有這樣子的一個高期待因為我們進了美牛我們進了美豬我們連核食我們所有的還包括跟美國並沒有在CPTPP裡面啦我們是跟台北市21世紀貿易當役部長你面對問題去解決問題我們一直希望\n322677\t327200\t我希望委員能夠來瞭解問題啦我知道問題啊你的問題啊問題是美國本來是有的啊他是退掉了嘛沒有啦他是TPP啦不是CPTPP啦我知道美國是TPP現在因為他退出才是由日本下去他們做這樣的主導你要去講這個部分顯然你怕面對問題因為如果另外具體的消息台灣在報告\n354838\t358602\t我希望你們尊重我們這樣子的我們一直很希望你可以就這個問題來回答我就要回答啊你剛剛回答是回答什麼你不要留那麼多錢\n370453\t374094\t中國一直都會是一個問題台灣跟中國是因為政治的議題然後就被擱置了中國不會消失所以外媒就是這麼說那你去跟外媒說你不用跟我說我們看到的就是這樣那你的結果你的什麼資訊你現在就是有被討論嗎你有被討論嗎你有被討論嗎如果這一次如果我們沒有被納入討論我們甚至還是被擱置你要不要下台\n399400\t402162\t委員你誤會了問題我幫你說明我不是誤會問題我現在在理解問題你今天如果你當一個外交部長然後只是會宣傳你到立陶宛去或者帶了這樣的一個歐洲像我們\n415332\t420256\t你到立法院去然後我們再問這個問題CPTPP現在已經要審預算的一個階段如果你用這樣的態度我覺得你在敷衍我們你比較急一點喔我沒有急阿我剛剛是很溫和的問\n433286\t453073\t這是因為你一直在輕忽我們的問題沒有 我是很誠懇啊我做過立委我知道我真的很想跟委員對話那你可以講啊好現在讓你講就是說他有一個程序要成立工作小組我們現在爭取大部分的國家我們接觸都支持沒有反對所以有一些報導是錯誤的\n454614\t478975\t那據說能夠成立工作小組因為有共識絕的問題（哪一個報導是錯誤的（就是所謂的被擱置（他要全部共識支持嘛對不對現在加拿大今年做組（加拿大有討論這個案子嗎我跟委員說明加拿大今年有一個解釋五月的時候做出來的就是說在成立正式工作小組之間也可以做諮商所以我們台灣現在跟有一半的國家都諮商他們都支持可是還沒有到絕對多數 新加坡跟馬來西亞有沒有支持\n479295\t479856\t阿富汗三原則\n497077\t510403\t對解釋一下反對者要提理由因為他們都沒有理由所以也沒有對台灣反對他們有沒有支持啦所以支持是要成立工作小組這件事情要在大會裡面去決定那你覺得為什麼他們這一次為什麼這一次\n517907\t545414\t加拿大的說法他們說目前準備最充分的其實就是台灣跟哥斯大黎加可是哥斯大黎加已經被同意了那你覺得最大的原因是什麼其實齁都被同意啦阿只是你有被同意嗎台灣我們有被同意啦哥斯大黎加哥斯大黎加可不可以參加他要成立工作小組哥斯大黎加可不可以參加目前成立工作小組去審查哥斯大黎加可不可以參加\n547603\t569091\t哥斯大力家可不可以參加因為他就這幾個嘛都可以申請啦要成立工作小組才能審查啦哥斯大力家可不可以參加都有資格去申請啦他可以參加嗎這一次到目前為止就你得到的資訊有沒有因為我們有派人在CPTPP我們有派人在CPTPP哥斯大力家有沒有被同意的\n570037\t580515\t委員現在是進行程序性還沒有進到實質審查至少目前他們已經有被討論他是不是已經有基本上有被同意因為所有的都有共識是不是是不是啊如果委員給我一分鐘我給你全世界\n584571\t591715\t你不用給我全世界你只要給台灣人有機會進入CPTPP這個是有期待的目的可以達成可是現在顯然聽你講話我們沒有辦法做這樣的期待原來其實我跟你\n600981\t601201\t我現在說的是\n619630\t626857\t我們現在有兩個國家（包括中國（包括我們台灣（他現在就是因為台灣跟中國有陣地的問題（所以我們讓擱置（這種的行為（已經都是已經存在的問題（你也都不敢回答（你不可以繼續去處理這些事情（\n639508\t645092\t臺灣是一樣的程度我們也是準備的非常充分可是我們沒有的原因是因為政治的問題所以你必須要面對問題你是新上任的我們本來期待你有一個新的作為然後可以好好的做可是顯然也不是那一分鐘麻煩你用書面給大家交代你不用給我全世界麻煩你給臺灣人更大的期待跟機會謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席麻煩請林部長請林部長部長早委員好部長剛剛您在來委員會之前有先進了總統府嘛那在建了高層以後對於台灣加入CPTPP被擱置的這個問題是不是有討論在剛剛\n正確台灣爭取加入CPT一直都有在推動也有在跟府院報告那現在行政院總談判代表楊振尼政委他也都在協調跨部會\n部長我知道我現在是說因為這個才剛出現的新聞那在您來之前因為是重要的會議那也是例行性的可是這個議題有沒有被討論然後討論了什麼\n最主要是針對出訪相關的安排所以CPTPP被擱置的這部分你們聯談我們另外有討論在行政院的層次所以今天沒有談我們談判總代表還有我們跨部會都有針對這兩天密切注意這個裡面就涉及到不是我們已經確定被擱置了嗎我們就事論事就是所謂擱置我跟委員報所謂擱置不是他是要成立工作小組才能夠進入具體的協商\n包括 雙邊的那現在也可以展開就是前協商的協商我想大家都已經在這些事務上面尤其在外交事務上我相信你也非常熟悉所以我們不用再去講這些細節現在出來的消息因為包括主辦的加拿大其實他們也都提出這樣子還有所有的成員國\n其實都已經有提到這樣就是說我們在這一次這個案子其實我們本來我們也是滿懷希望因為我們之前要去之前也是說加拿大這一次應該由他們來在他那裡主辦的話對我們是有史以來可能最友善最有利的一個條件可是他現在被擱置其實這就是事實\n我們現在想要知道的是我們應該要怎麼做因為剛剛如果CPTPP被擱置這樣的問題因為包括顯然我不知道您就部長的回答是我們剛剛是沒有談這個問題是嗎\n我跟委員報告因為就是我沒有擱置這個問題是因為他如果我們是申請不管先後他要成立工作小組部長我們沒有要在這裡討論這個因為這個不是我們這裡可以決定的我現在要知道的是當我們目前至少到目前你說他還在開到目前為止我們是被擱置的狀況我們在剛剛在府院在大家討論的時候有沒有提到我們應該要怎麼去因應\n這個部分有沒有?剛剛我到府內沒有討論CPTPP這是行政院總談判代表跨部會的我們都只有一個群組在進行那我跟委員講齁我們去申請他必須要成立工作小組然後現在他開放\n部長這個我們知道這個我們知道我們現在只看結果現在目前我們得到訊息是這樣如果說剛剛我們本來以為這個是非常重要因為每次在審預算或者在對國人提到CPTPP的時候這個對於我們面對因為CPTPP所有的\n這個成員組織其實它已經占了所有全球經濟的15%而且是我們很重要的一個機會因為我們沒有機會參加其他的這些貿易組織不容易所以我們把機會或者希望都放在這裡那你現在如果說已經面臨到說這個案子被擱置\n我們還沒有在這麼重要的一個會議上面做討論我不知道為什麼你要編這麼高額的預算因為顯然他不被重視或不重要是這樣嗎我跟委員講不是被擱置我要清楚的說明他是要我們目前接觸的對象國家都是支持的\n只是他必須要成立工作小組這一步那因為生前奧克蘭三原則之後加拿大有一個解釋讓我們可以成立pre consultation部長我們現在收到的訊息包括外媒包括我們自己國內的媒體就是這麼說那你要去講工作小組那到最後如果沒有你要怎麼說我們現在要講的是\n蔡前總統曾經形容加入CPTPP是台灣邁向全球自由貿易關鍵的一步如果這個是你們剛剛你不好在這裡說你們剛剛有討論或者你們根本連討論都沒有我認為其實我們討論只是在剛剛那個場合\n已經有這樣子的一個高期待因為我們進了美牛我們進了美豬我們連核食我們所有的還包括跟美國並沒有在CPTPP裡面啦我們是跟台北市21世紀貿易當役部長你面對問題去解決問題我們一直希望\n我希望委員能夠來瞭解問題啦我知道問題啊你的問題啊問題是美國本來是有的啊他是退掉了嘛沒有啦他是TPP啦不是CPTPP啦我知道美國是TPP現在因為他退出才是由日本下去他們做這樣的主導你要去講這個部分顯然你怕面對問題因為如果另外具體的消息台灣在報告\n我希望你們尊重我們這樣子的我們一直很希望你可以就這個問題來回答我就要回答啊你剛剛回答是回答什麼你不要留那麼多錢\n中國一直都會是一個問題台灣跟中國是因為政治的議題然後就被擱置了中國不會消失所以外媒就是這麼說那你去跟外媒說你不用跟我說我們看到的就是這樣那你的結果你的什麼資訊你現在就是有被討論嗎你有被討論嗎你有被討論嗎如果這一次如果我們沒有被納入討論我們甚至還是被擱置你要不要下台\n委員你誤會了問題我幫你說明我不是誤會問題我現在在理解問題你今天如果你當一個外交部長然後只是會宣傳你到立陶宛去或者帶了這樣的一個歐洲像我們\n你到立法院去然後我們再問這個問題CPTPP現在已經要審預算的一個階段如果你用這樣的態度我覺得你在敷衍我們你比較急一點喔我沒有急阿我剛剛是很溫和的問\n這是因為你一直在輕忽我們的問題沒有 我是很誠懇啊我做過立委我知道我真的很想跟委員對話那你可以講啊好現在讓你講就是說他有一個程序要成立工作小組我們現在爭取大部分的國家我們接觸都支持沒有反對所以有一些報導是錯誤的\n那據說能夠成立工作小組因為有共識絕的問題（哪一個報導是錯誤的（就是所謂的被擱置（他要全部共識支持嘛對不對現在加拿大今年做組（加拿大有討論這個案子嗎我跟委員說明加拿大今年有一個解釋五月的時候做出來的就是說在成立正式工作小組之間也可以做諮商所以我們台灣現在跟有一半的國家都諮商他們都支持可是還沒有到絕對多數 新加坡跟馬來西亞有沒有支持\n阿富汗三原則\n對解釋一下反對者要提理由因為他們都沒有理由所以也沒有對台灣反對他們有沒有支持啦所以支持是要成立工作小組這件事情要在大會裡面去決定那你覺得為什麼他們這一次為什麼這一次\n加拿大的說法他們說目前準備最充分的其實就是台灣跟哥斯大黎加可是哥斯大黎加已經被同意了那你覺得最大的原因是什麼其實齁都被同意啦阿只是你有被同意嗎台灣我們有被同意啦哥斯大黎加哥斯大黎加可不可以參加他要成立工作小組哥斯大黎加可不可以參加目前成立工作小組去審查哥斯大黎加可不可以參加\n哥斯大力家可不可以參加因為他就這幾個嘛都可以申請啦要成立工作小組才能審查啦哥斯大力家可不可以參加都有資格去申請啦他可以參加嗎這一次到目前為止就你得到的資訊有沒有因為我們有派人在CPTPP我們有派人在CPTPP哥斯大力家有沒有被同意的\n委員現在是進行程序性還沒有進到實質審查至少目前他們已經有被討論他是不是已經有基本上有被同意因為所有的都有共識是不是是不是啊如果委員給我一分鐘我給你全世界\n你不用給我全世界你只要給台灣人有機會進入CPTPP這個是有期待的目的可以達成可是現在顯然聽你講話我們沒有辦法做這樣的期待原來其實我跟你\n我現在說的是\n我們現在有兩個國家（包括中國（包括我們台灣（他現在就是因為台灣跟中國有陣地的問題（所以我們讓擱置（這種的行為（已經都是已經存在的問題（你也都不敢回答（你不可以繼續去處理這些事情（\n臺灣是一樣的程度我們也是準備的非常充分可是我們沒有的原因是因為政治的問題所以你必須要面對問題你是新上任的我們本來期待你有一個新的作為然後可以好好的做可是顯然也不是那一分鐘麻煩你用書面給大家交代你不用給我全世界麻煩你給臺灣人更大的期待跟機會謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.009 --> 00:04.030\n謝謝主席麻煩請林部長請林部長部長早委員好部長剛剛您在來委員會之前有先進了總統府嘛那在建了高層以後對於台灣加入CPTPP被擱置的這個問題是不是有討論在剛剛\n\n00:31.246 --> 00:49.001\n正確台灣爭取加入CPT一直都有在推動也有在跟府院報告那現在行政院總談判代表楊振尼政委他也都在協調跨部會\n\n00:50.202 --> 01:01.277\n部長我知道我現在是說因為這個才剛出現的新聞那在您來之前因為是重要的會議那也是例行性的可是這個議題有沒有被討論然後討論了什麼\n\n01:06.866 --> 01:34.865\n最主要是針對出訪相關的安排所以CPTPP被擱置的這部分你們聯談我們另外有討論在行政院的層次所以今天沒有談我們談判總代表還有我們跨部會都有針對這兩天密切注意這個裡面就涉及到不是我們已經確定被擱置了嗎我們就事論事就是所謂擱置我跟委員報所謂擱置不是他是要成立工作小組才能夠進入具體的協商\n\n01:35.906 --> 01:49.391\n包括雙邊的那現在也可以展開就是前協商的協商我想大家都已經在這些事務上面尤其在外交事務上我相信你也非常熟悉所以我們不用再去講這些細節現在出來的消息因為包括主辦的加拿大其實他們也都提出這樣子還有所有的成員國\n\n01:58.814 --> 02:02.735\n其實都已經有提到這樣就是說我們在這一次這個案子其實我們本來我們也是滿懷希望因為我們之前要去之前也是說加拿大這一次應該由他們來在他那裡主辦的話對我們是有史以來可能最友善最有利的一個條件可是他現在被擱置其實這就是事實\n\n02:22.060 --> 02:33.910\n我們現在想要知道的是我們應該要怎麼做因為剛剛如果CPTPP被擱置這樣的問題因為包括顯然我不知道您就部長的回答是我們剛剛是沒有談這個問題是嗎\n\n02:36.567 --> 02:40.970\n我跟委員報告因為就是我沒有擱置這個問題是因為他如果我們是申請不管先後他要成立工作小組部長我們沒有要在這裡討論這個因為這個不是我們這裡可以決定的我現在要知道的是當我們目前至少到目前你說他還在開到目前為止我們是被擱置的狀況我們在剛剛在府院在大家討論的時候有沒有提到我們應該要怎麼去因應\n\n03:06.464 --> 03:17.351\n這個部分有沒有?剛剛我到府內沒有討論CPTPP這是行政院總談判代表跨部會的我們都只有一個群組在進行那我跟委員講齁我們去申請他必須要成立工作小組然後現在他開放\n\n03:23.114 --> 03:26.818\n部長這個我們知道這個我們知道我們現在只看結果現在目前我們得到訊息是這樣如果說剛剛我們本來以為這個是非常重要因為每次在審預算或者在對國人提到CPTPP的時候這個對於我們面對因為CPTPP所有的\n\n03:43.895 --> 03:46.276\n這個成員組織其實它已經占了所有全球經濟的15%而且是我們很重要的一個機會因為我們沒有機會參加其他的這些貿易組織不容易所以我們把機會或者希望都放在這裡那你現在如果說已經面臨到說這個案子被擱置\n\n04:03.860 --> 04:21.316\n我們還沒有在這麼重要的一個會議上面做討論我不知道為什麼你要編這麼高額的預算因為顯然他不被重視或不重要是這樣嗎我跟委員講不是被擱置我要清楚的說明他是要我們目前接觸的對象國家都是支持的\n\n04:22.017 --> 04:30.122\n只是他必須要成立工作小組這一步那因為生前奧克蘭三原則之後加拿大有一個解釋讓我們可以成立preconsultation部長我們現在收到的訊息包括外媒包括我們自己國內的媒體就是這麼說那你要去講工作小組那到最後如果沒有你要怎麼說我們現在要講的是\n\n04:45.031 --> 04:47.053\n蔡前總統曾經形容加入CPTPP是台灣邁向全球自由貿易關鍵的一步如果這個是你們剛剛你不好在這裡說你們剛剛有討論或者你們根本連討論都沒有我認為其實我們討論只是在剛剛那個場合\n\n05:04.105 --> 05:09.889\n已經有這樣子的一個高期待因為我們進了美牛我們進了美豬我們連核食我們所有的還包括跟美國並沒有在CPTPP裡面啦我們是跟台北市21世紀貿易當役部長你面對問題去解決問題我們一直希望\n\n05:22.677 --> 05:27.200\n我希望委員能夠來瞭解問題啦我知道問題啊你的問題啊問題是美國本來是有的啊他是退掉了嘛沒有啦他是TPP啦不是CPTPP啦我知道美國是TPP現在因為他退出才是由日本下去他們做這樣的主導你要去講這個部分顯然你怕面對問題因為如果另外具體的消息台灣在報告\n\n05:54.838 --> 05:58.602\n我希望你們尊重我們這樣子的我們一直很希望你可以就這個問題來回答我就要回答啊你剛剛回答是回答什麼你不要留那麼多錢\n\n06:10.453 --> 06:14.094\n中國一直都會是一個問題台灣跟中國是因為政治的議題然後就被擱置了中國不會消失所以外媒就是這麼說那你去跟外媒說你不用跟我說我們看到的就是這樣那你的結果你的什麼資訊你現在就是有被討論嗎你有被討論嗎你有被討論嗎如果這一次如果我們沒有被納入討論我們甚至還是被擱置你要不要下台\n\n06:39.400 --> 06:42.162\n委員你誤會了問題我幫你說明我不是誤會問題我現在在理解問題你今天如果你當一個外交部長然後只是會宣傳你到立陶宛去或者帶了這樣的一個歐洲像我們\n\n06:55.332 --> 07:00.256\n你到立法院去然後我們再問這個問題CPTPP現在已經要審預算的一個階段如果你用這樣的態度我覺得你在敷衍我們你比較急一點喔我沒有急阿我剛剛是很溫和的問\n\n07:13.286 --> 07:33.073\n這是因為你一直在輕忽我們的問題沒有我是很誠懇啊我做過立委我知道我真的很想跟委員對話那你可以講啊好現在讓你講就是說他有一個程序要成立工作小組我們現在爭取大部分的國家我們接觸都支持沒有反對所以有一些報導是錯誤的\n\n07:34.614 --> 07:58.975\n那據說能夠成立工作小組因為有共識絕的問題（哪一個報導是錯誤的（就是所謂的被擱置（他要全部共識支持嘛對不對現在加拿大今年做組（加拿大有討論這個案子嗎我跟委員說明加拿大今年有一個解釋五月的時候做出來的就是說在成立正式工作小組之間也可以做諮商所以我們台灣現在跟有一半的國家都諮商他們都支持可是還沒有到絕對多數新加坡跟馬來西亞有沒有支持\n\n07:59.295 --> 07:59.856\n阿富汗三原則\n\n08:17.077 --> 08:30.403\n對解釋一下反對者要提理由因為他們都沒有理由所以也沒有對台灣反對他們有沒有支持啦所以支持是要成立工作小組這件事情要在大會裡面去決定那你覺得為什麼他們這一次為什麼這一次\n\n08:37.907 --> 09:05.414\n加拿大的說法他們說目前準備最充分的其實就是台灣跟哥斯大黎加可是哥斯大黎加已經被同意了那你覺得最大的原因是什麼其實齁都被同意啦阿只是你有被同意嗎台灣我們有被同意啦哥斯大黎加哥斯大黎加可不可以參加他要成立工作小組哥斯大黎加可不可以參加目前成立工作小組去審查哥斯大黎加可不可以參加\n\n09:07.603 --> 09:29.091\n哥斯大力家可不可以參加因為他就這幾個嘛都可以申請啦要成立工作小組才能審查啦哥斯大力家可不可以參加都有資格去申請啦他可以參加嗎這一次到目前為止就你得到的資訊有沒有因為我們有派人在CPTPP我們有派人在CPTPP哥斯大力家有沒有被同意的\n\n09:30.037 --> 09:40.515\n委員現在是進行程序性還沒有進到實質審查至少目前他們已經有被討論他是不是已經有基本上有被同意因為所有的都有共識是不是是不是啊如果委員給我一分鐘我給你全世界\n\n09:44.571 --> 09:51.715\n你不用給我全世界你只要給台灣人有機會進入CPTPP這個是有期待的目的可以達成可是現在顯然聽你講話我們沒有辦法做這樣的期待原來其實我跟你\n\n10:00.981 --> 10:01.201\n我現在說的是\n\n10:19.630 --> 10:26.857\n我們現在有兩個國家（包括中國（包括我們台灣（他現在就是因為台灣跟中國有陣地的問題（所以我們讓擱置（這種的行為（已經都是已經存在的問題（你也都不敢回答（你不可以繼續去處理這些事情（\n\n10:39.508 --> 10:45.092\n臺灣是一樣的程度我們也是準備的非常充分可是我們沒有的原因是因為政治的問題所以你必須要面對問題你是新上任的我們本來期待你有一個新的作為然後可以好好的做可是顯然也不是那一分鐘麻煩你用書面給大家交代你不用給我全世界麻煩你給臺灣人更大的期待跟機會謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.009,"end":4.03,"text":"謝謝主席麻煩請林部長請林部長部長早委員好部長剛剛您在來委員會之前有先進了總統府嘛那在建了高層以後對於台灣加入CPTPP被擱置的這個問題是不是有討論在剛剛"},{"start":31.246,"end":49.001,"text":"正確台灣爭取加入CPT一直都有在推動也有在跟府院報告那現在行政院總談判代表楊振尼政委他也都在協調跨部會"},{"start":50.202,"end":61.277,"text":"部長我知道我現在是說因為這個才剛出現的新聞那在您來之前因為是重要的會議那也是例行性的可是這個議題有沒有被討論然後討論了什麼"},{"start":66.866,"end":94.865,"text":"最主要是針對出訪相關的安排所以CPTPP被擱置的這部分你們聯談我們另外有討論在行政院的層次所以今天沒有談我們談判總代表還有我們跨部會都有針對這兩天密切注意這個裡面就涉及到不是我們已經確定被擱置了嗎我們就事論事就是所謂擱置我跟委員報所謂擱置不是他是要成立工作小組才能夠進入具體的協商"},{"start":95.906,"end":109.391,"text":"包括 雙邊的那現在也可以展開就是前協商的協商我想大家都已經在這些事務上面尤其在外交事務上我相信你也非常熟悉所以我們不用再去講這些細節現在出來的消息因為包括主辦的加拿大其實他們也都提出這樣子還有所有的成員國"},{"start":118.814,"end":122.735,"text":"其實都已經有提到這樣就是說我們在這一次這個案子其實我們本來我們也是滿懷希望因為我們之前要去之前也是說加拿大這一次應該由他們來在他那裡主辦的話對我們是有史以來可能最友善最有利的一個條件可是他現在被擱置其實這就是事實"},{"start":142.06,"end":153.91,"text":"我們現在想要知道的是我們應該要怎麼做因為剛剛如果CPTPP被擱置這樣的問題因為包括顯然我不知道您就部長的回答是我們剛剛是沒有談這個問題是嗎"},{"start":156.567,"end":160.97,"text":"我跟委員報告因為就是我沒有擱置這個問題是因為他如果我們是申請不管先後他要成立工作小組部長我們沒有要在這裡討論這個因為這個不是我們這裡可以決定的我現在要知道的是當我們目前至少到目前你說他還在開到目前為止我們是被擱置的狀況我們在剛剛在府院在大家討論的時候有沒有提到我們應該要怎麼去因應"},{"start":186.464,"end":197.351,"text":"這個部分有沒有?剛剛我到府內沒有討論CPTPP這是行政院總談判代表跨部會的我們都只有一個群組在進行那我跟委員講齁我們去申請他必須要成立工作小組然後現在他開放"},{"start":203.114,"end":206.818,"text":"部長這個我們知道這個我們知道我們現在只看結果現在目前我們得到訊息是這樣如果說剛剛我們本來以為這個是非常重要因為每次在審預算或者在對國人提到CPTPP的時候這個對於我們面對因為CPTPP所有的"},{"start":223.895,"end":226.276,"text":"這個成員組織其實它已經占了所有全球經濟的15%而且是我們很重要的一個機會因為我們沒有機會參加其他的這些貿易組織不容易所以我們把機會或者希望都放在這裡那你現在如果說已經面臨到說這個案子被擱置"},{"start":243.86,"end":261.316,"text":"我們還沒有在這麼重要的一個會議上面做討論我不知道為什麼你要編這麼高額的預算因為顯然他不被重視或不重要是這樣嗎我跟委員講不是被擱置我要清楚的說明他是要我們目前接觸的對象國家都是支持的"},{"start":262.017,"end":270.122,"text":"只是他必須要成立工作小組這一步那因為生前奧克蘭三原則之後加拿大有一個解釋讓我們可以成立pre consultation部長我們現在收到的訊息包括外媒包括我們自己國內的媒體就是這麼說那你要去講工作小組那到最後如果沒有你要怎麼說我們現在要講的是"},{"start":285.031,"end":287.053,"text":"蔡前總統曾經形容加入CPTPP是台灣邁向全球自由貿易關鍵的一步如果這個是你們剛剛你不好在這裡說你們剛剛有討論或者你們根本連討論都沒有我認為其實我們討論只是在剛剛那個場合"},{"start":304.105,"end":309.889,"text":"已經有這樣子的一個高期待因為我們進了美牛我們進了美豬我們連核食我們所有的還包括跟美國並沒有在CPTPP裡面啦我們是跟台北市21世紀貿易當役部長你面對問題去解決問題我們一直希望"},{"start":322.677,"end":327.2,"text":"我希望委員能夠來瞭解問題啦我知道問題啊你的問題啊問題是美國本來是有的啊他是退掉了嘛沒有啦他是TPP啦不是CPTPP啦我知道美國是TPP現在因為他退出才是由日本下去他們做這樣的主導你要去講這個部分顯然你怕面對問題因為如果另外具體的消息台灣在報告"},{"start":354.838,"end":358.602,"text":"我希望你們尊重我們這樣子的我們一直很希望你可以就這個問題來回答我就要回答啊你剛剛回答是回答什麼你不要留那麼多錢"},{"start":370.453,"end":374.094,"text":"中國一直都會是一個問題台灣跟中國是因為政治的議題然後就被擱置了中國不會消失所以外媒就是這麼說那你去跟外媒說你不用跟我說我們看到的就是這樣那你的結果你的什麼資訊你現在就是有被討論嗎你有被討論嗎你有被討論嗎如果這一次如果我們沒有被納入討論我們甚至還是被擱置你要不要下台"},{"start":399.4,"end":402.162,"text":"委員你誤會了問題我幫你說明我不是誤會問題我現在在理解問題你今天如果你當一個外交部長然後只是會宣傳你到立陶宛去或者帶了這樣的一個歐洲像我們"},{"start":415.332,"end":420.256,"text":"你到立法院去然後我們再問這個問題CPTPP現在已經要審預算的一個階段如果你用這樣的態度我覺得你在敷衍我們你比較急一點喔我沒有急阿我剛剛是很溫和的問"},{"start":433.286,"end":453.073,"text":"這是因為你一直在輕忽我們的問題沒有 我是很誠懇啊我做過立委我知道我真的很想跟委員對話那你可以講啊好現在讓你講就是說他有一個程序要成立工作小組我們現在爭取大部分的國家我們接觸都支持沒有反對所以有一些報導是錯誤的"},{"start":454.614,"end":478.975,"text":"那據說能夠成立工作小組因為有共識絕的問題（哪一個報導是錯誤的（就是所謂的被擱置（他要全部共識支持嘛對不對現在加拿大今年做組（加拿大有討論這個案子嗎我跟委員說明加拿大今年有一個解釋五月的時候做出來的就是說在成立正式工作小組之間也可以做諮商所以我們台灣現在跟有一半的國家都諮商他們都支持可是還沒有到絕對多數 新加坡跟馬來西亞有沒有支持"},{"start":479.295,"end":479.856,"text":"阿富汗三原則"},{"start":497.077,"end":510.403,"text":"對解釋一下反對者要提理由因為他們都沒有理由所以也沒有對台灣反對他們有沒有支持啦所以支持是要成立工作小組這件事情要在大會裡面去決定那你覺得為什麼他們這一次為什麼這一次"},{"start":517.907,"end":545.414,"text":"加拿大的說法他們說目前準備最充分的其實就是台灣跟哥斯大黎加可是哥斯大黎加已經被同意了那你覺得最大的原因是什麼其實齁都被同意啦阿只是你有被同意嗎台灣我們有被同意啦哥斯大黎加哥斯大黎加可不可以參加他要成立工作小組哥斯大黎加可不可以參加目前成立工作小組去審查哥斯大黎加可不可以參加"},{"start":547.603,"end":569.091,"text":"哥斯大力家可不可以參加因為他就這幾個嘛都可以申請啦要成立工作小組才能審查啦哥斯大力家可不可以參加都有資格去申請啦他可以參加嗎這一次到目前為止就你得到的資訊有沒有因為我們有派人在CPTPP我們有派人在CPTPP哥斯大力家有沒有被同意的"},{"start":570.037,"end":580.515,"text":"委員現在是進行程序性還沒有進到實質審查至少目前他們已經有被討論他是不是已經有基本上有被同意因為所有的都有共識是不是是不是啊如果委員給我一分鐘我給你全世界"},{"start":584.571,"end":591.715,"text":"你不用給我全世界你只要給台灣人有機會進入CPTPP這個是有期待的目的可以達成可是現在顯然聽你講話我們沒有辦法做這樣的期待原來其實我跟你"},{"start":600.981,"end":601.201,"text":"我現在說的是"},{"start":619.63,"end":626.857,"text":"我們現在有兩個國家（包括中國（包括我們台灣（他現在就是因為台灣跟中國有陣地的問題（所以我們讓擱置（這種的行為（已經都是已經存在的問題（你也都不敢回答（你不可以繼續去處理這些事情（"},{"start":639.508,"end":645.092,"text":"臺灣是一樣的程度我們也是準備的非常充分可是我們沒有的原因是因為政治的問題所以你必須要面對問題你是新上任的我們本來期待你有一個新的作為然後可以好好的做可是顯然也不是那一分鐘麻煩你用書面給大家交代你不用給我全世界麻煩你給臺灣人更大的期待跟機會謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":271,"blocks":[["馬委員文君：（11時20分）謝謝主席，麻煩請林部長。"],["主席：請林部長。"],["馬委員文君：部長早。"],["林部長佳龍：委員好。"],["馬委員文君：部長，剛剛您來委員會之前，有先進總統府見高層，對於臺灣加入CPTPP被擱置這個問題，剛剛是不是有討論？"],["林部長佳龍：針對臺灣爭取加入CPTPP，我們一直都有在推動，也有向府院報告，現在行政院總談判代表楊珍妮政委也在做跨部會協調。"],["馬委員文君：部長，本席知道。本席現在是說，因為這是剛出現的新聞，在您來之前，因為這是重要會議，也是例行性的，這個議題有沒有被討論？討論了什麼？"],["林部長佳龍：最主要是針對出訪的相關安排。"],["馬委員文君：所以CPTPP被擱置這個部分，你們連談都沒談？"],["林部長佳龍：我們另外有討論，在行政院的層次。"],["馬委員文君：所以今天沒有談？"],["林部長佳龍：我們談判總代表和跨部會的同仁，都有針對這兩天的狀況密切注意，這裡面就涉及到……"],["馬委員文君：我們已經確定被擱置了，我們就事論事啦！這件事應該滿明確的。"],["林部長佳龍：現在還在開會中，並不是所謂的擱置，他們是要成立工作小組才能夠進入具體的協商，包括雙邊的關係，現在也可以展開前協商的協商。"],["馬委員文君：部長，關於這些事務，尤其是外交事務，本席相信你也非常熟悉，所以我們不用再說這些細節。現在傳出來的消息，包括主辦的加拿大，其實他們也有提出這樣的意見，還有所有的成員國，其實都已經提到。這次的案子，其實我們本來也是滿懷希望，因為去參加之前，也說這次由加拿大主辦的話，對我們來說可能是有史以來最友善、最有利的條件，可是案子現在被擱置了，這就是事實。我們現在想要知道應該怎麼做？CPTPP被擱置的問題，就部長的回答，顯然你們剛剛並沒有談到這個問題，是嗎？請你回答有沒有就好了。"],["林部長佳龍：因為沒有所謂擱置這個問題。如果我們去申請，不管先後，他們要成立工作小組，成立工作小組……"],["馬委員文君：部長，我們現在不是要討論這個部分，因為這不是我們可以決定的。本席現在要知道的是，你說他們還在開會，但是到目前為止我們是被擱置的狀況，剛剛大家在府院討論的時候，有沒有提到應該怎麼因應？這個部分有沒有討論到？"],["林部長佳龍：剛剛我到府內沒有討論CPTPP，這是行政院總談判代表在處理，是跨部會的，我們有一個群組在進行。"],["馬委員文君：所以這個部分沒有討論？"],["林部長佳龍：我們去申請，他們必須成立工作小組，現在他們開放能夠成立諮商的……"],["馬委員文君：部長，你說的這些我們知道，我們現在只看結果，目前我們得到的訊息是這樣。我們本來以為這是非常重要的事情，因為每次在審預算，或者對國人提到CPTPP的時候，都會提到CPTPP所有的成員組織已經占全球經濟的15%，這次是一個很重要的機會，因為我們沒有機會參加其他的貿易組織，真的很不容易，所以我們把機會或者希望都放在這裡。如果現在這個案子已經面臨被擱置的狀況，可是我們卻沒有在這麼重要的會議討論，本席不知道為什麼你們要編列這麼高額的預算，因為它顯然不被重視或是不重要。是這樣嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：不是被擱置。我要清楚的說明，我們目前接觸的對象、國家都是支持的，只是他們必須成立工作小組，因為自奧克蘭三原則之後，加拿大有一個解釋，讓我們可以成立pre-consultation……"],["馬委員文君：部長，我們現在收到的訊息，包括外媒和國內媒體都是這麼說，你現在說是因為要成立工作小組，如果到最後不是這樣，你要怎麼說？"],["林部長佳龍：就是一步、一步來。"],["馬委員文君：我們現在要說的是，蔡前總統曾經形容，加入CPTPP是臺灣邁向全球自由貿易關鍵的一步，如果你不方便在這裡說明你們剛剛有討論，或者你們根本連討論都沒有，我們認為……"],["林部長佳龍：我們會討論，只是不會在剛剛那個場合。"],["馬委員文君：現在已經讓國人高度期待，因為我們進了美牛、美豬，我們連核食都同意進口，還包括和加拿大有很多……"],["林部長佳龍：美國並沒有在CPTPP裡面，我們是跟臺美21世紀貿易倡議……"],["馬委員文君：他們是後來退下來的嘛！部長，你要面對問題、解決問題，我們一直希望你要去說明這個部分。"],["林部長佳龍：我希望委員能了解問題啦！我就是在協助讓大家了解啦！"],["馬委員文君：本席知道。問題是美國本來有參加，但是現在退出嘛！現在的CPTPP，大家已經……"],["林部長佳龍：沒有啦！它是參加TPP，不是CPTPP。"],["馬委員文君：本席知道美國是參加TPP。現在是因為美國退出，所以才會由日本主導，你要說明的是這個部分，顯然你是怕面對問題。因為根據外媒的消息，臺灣在……"],["林部長佳龍：不會！我不會怕面對問題，我喜歡面對它，這樣才能解決問題啦！委員的問題，我們很誠實的回答。"],["馬委員文君：部長，本席希望你能尊重我們的質詢，我們一直很希望你可以就這個問題回答。"],["林部長佳龍：我就要回答啊！"],["馬委員文君：你剛剛回答什麼？你們編列那麼多錢，但中國一直都會是一個問題，臺灣和中國因為政治議題，所以就被擱置了。中國不會消失，所以……"],["林部長佳龍：不是擱置啦！我必須誠實的向委員說明。"],["馬委員文君：外媒就是這麼說的，你去和外媒說，不用和本席說，我們看到的就是這樣。"],["林部長佳龍：我提供正確的資訊，你又不參考。"],["馬委員文君：你提供什麼資訊？現在有被討論嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：我告訴你程序是怎麼走的。"],["馬委員文君：有被討論嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：有。"],["馬委員文君：如果這一次我們沒有被納入討論，甚至是被擱置，你要不要下台？"],["林部長佳龍：委員，你誤會了問題，請讓我說明，好不好？你不用……"],["馬委員文君：本席不是誤會問題，我們現在是在釐清問題。今天你當一個外交部長，卻只會宣傳你們要到立陶宛做什麼，或者到歐洲做什麼，現在我們是問關於CPTPP的問題，而且已經到了要審預算的階段，如果你用這樣的態度，本席覺得你是在敷衍我們。"],["林部長佳龍：我沒有任何不敬的態度喔！是委員比較急一點。"],["馬委員文君：本席不是急。本席剛剛是很溫和的問，這是大家關心的議題，是因為你一直輕忽我們的問題，所以會讓人家產生這樣的質疑。"],["林部長佳龍：沒有，我是很誠懇的。因為我當過立委，我也是真的很想和委員對話。"],["馬委員文君：那你可以說啊！現在就讓你說。"],["林部長佳龍：它有一個程序，要成立工作小組。我們現在也在爭取支持，大部分的國家，我們接觸時都表示支持，沒有反對的，所以有一些報導是錯誤的。至於能不能成立工作小組，因為有共識決的問題……"],["馬委員文君：哪一個報導是錯誤的？對，它就是共識決，要全部有共識支持嘛！對不對？"],["林部長佳龍：就是所謂的被擱置。加拿大今年做主……"],["馬委員文君：加拿大有討論這個案子嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：加拿大今年有一個解釋，5月提出的，就是在成立正式工作小組之前也可以諮商，現在臺灣和一半的國家做過諮商，他們都支持，可是還沒有到絕對多數。"],["馬委員文君：新加坡和馬來西亞是否支持？"],["林部長佳龍：我們不能替他們說明，但是就我得到的訊息……"],["馬委員文君：你不是和他們做過諮商嗎？現在又不能替他們說。請你告訴我們諮商的結果，好不好？"],["林部長佳龍：他們沒有反對。"],["馬委員文君：有沒有支持？我們要的是支持，而不是沒有反對。他們有沒有支持？"],["林部長佳龍：在「奧克蘭三原則」的解釋下，反對者要提理由，因為他們都沒有理由，所以就是不反對。"],["馬委員文君：他們有沒有支持？"],["林部長佳龍：所謂的支持是要成立工作小組，這件事情要在大會決定，如果成立工作小組有政治的干擾，也可以做諮商。"],["馬委員文君：就加拿大的說法，他們說目前準備最充分的，其實就是臺灣和哥斯大黎加，可是哥斯大黎加已經被同意了，你覺得最大的原因是什麼？"],["林部長佳龍：其實都被同意啦！只是我們要成立工作小組……"],["馬委員文君：臺灣有沒有被同意？"],["林部長佳龍：沒有人反對臺灣參加。"],["馬委員文君：哥斯大黎加可不可以參加？"],["林部長佳龍：它要成立工作小組這件事情……"],["馬委員文君：哥斯大黎加可不可以參加？到目前為止。"],["林部長佳龍：他們要成立工作小組去審查，就是代表……"],["馬委員文君：哥斯大黎加可不可以參加？因為就這幾個國家嘛！有提出來的。"],["林部長佳龍：都可以申請啦！要成立工作小組才可以審查。"],["馬委員文君：部長，哥斯大黎加可不可以參加？"],["林部長佳龍：都可以，都有資格去申請啦！"],["馬委員文君：它可以參加嗎？這一次到目前為止，就你得到的資訊，有沒有？"],["林部長佳龍：其實參加的意思也是成立工作小組……"],["馬委員文君：因為我們有派人在CPTPP，哥斯大黎加有沒有被同意？"],["林部長佳龍：委員，現在是進行程序，還沒有進到實質審查。"],["馬委員文君：有沒有被同意？沒關係，至少他們目前已經有被討論，基本上是不是已經被同意？因為所有人都有共識，是不是？"],["林部長佳龍：如果委員給我1分鐘，我給你全世界。"],["馬委員文君：你不用給本席全世界，你只要讓臺灣人有機會進入CPTPP，希望我們期待的這個目的可以達成，可是現在聽你的回答，顯然我們沒有辦法做這樣的期待。其實以本席和你的交情，或者以前對你的認識，本席不認為你會這樣說話，因為我們從來……"],["林部長佳龍：不會啦！我就是我，我一向是面對問題，不會閃躲啦！"],["馬委員文君：沒關係，你就是你啦！本席也不怕你閃躲啦！因為你身為外交部長，本來就要面對問題。本席現在說的是，他們現在就是認為臺灣和中國之間有政治問題，所以我們的案子才會被擱置，這是既存的問題，但你卻不敢回答，這樣你就沒辦法繼續去處理這些事情。"],["林部長佳龍：我敢啦！你給我1分鐘，我就敢說明。"],["馬委員文君：哥斯大黎加已經達到這樣的成效，臺灣和它是一樣的，我們也準備得非常充分，可是我們沒有被同意，就是因為政治的問題，所以你必須面對問題。你是新上任的，我們本來期待你有新的作為，也可以好好地做，可是顯然並不是這樣。那1分鐘的說明，麻煩你用書面的方式向大家交代，你不用給本席全世界，麻煩你給臺灣人更大的期待和機會，謝謝。"],["林部長佳龍：好，我會給委員一份書面報告，1分鐘長的書面報告。"],["主席：謝謝馬文君委員，部長請回。"],["主席（徐委員巧芯代）：接下來請林憶君委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":150,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-19","speakers":["林憶君","羅美玲","陳冠廷","王定宇","林楚茵","馬文君","徐巧芯","賴士葆","黃國昌","楊瓊瓔","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","羅廷瑋","羅智強","邱志偉","葉元之","沈伯洋","黃仁","王鴻薇"],"page_start":97,"meetingDate":["2024-11-28"],"gazette_id":"11310701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310701_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第19次全體委員會議（含秘密會議）紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於外交部主管收支公開及機密部分（僅詢答）；二、繼續\n處理院會交付外交部113年度中央政府總預算決議（十八）「對外之捐助」預算凍結100萬元案","agenda_id":"11310701_00002"}}}