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{\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 424.051, \"end\": 424.251, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"表\", \"start\": 424.251, \"end\": 424.531, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"示\", \"start\": 424.531, \"end\": 424.691, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 424.691, \"end\": 424.891, \"score\": 0.806}, {\"word\": \"表\", \"start\": 424.891, \"end\": 424.911, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"證\"}, {\"word\": \"蔡\", \"start\": 426.385, \"end\": 426.525, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"易\", \"start\": 426.525, \"end\": 426.585, \"score\": 0.648}, {\"word\": \"餘\"}, {\"word\": \"蔡\", \"start\": 426.585, \"end\": 426.685, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"易\", \"start\": 426.685, \"end\": 426.705, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"餘\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:13,697 --> 00:00:27,330\n好謝謝主席那我們是不是有請這個李主委請李主委欸主委好\n\n2\n00:00:28,291 --> 00:00:45,762\n主委那這個針對國內彈價的問題那因為彈在今年的整年都是供過於求所以他是調降而且已經降到了歷史的一個低點那最近當然可能因為颱風的關係所以這個供過於求的狀況有比較趨緩那所以這一個彈商的協會有漲價但是這個漲價的機制公平會一直認為說\n\n3\n00:00:58,450 --> 00:01:08,432\n這一個漲價機制是不透明的所以它的漲價機制是否符合現在的一個合理的一個價格那這個公平會後來調查的結果是怎樣\n\n4\n00:01:10,539 --> 00:01:32,161\n跟委員說明第一個那個單價的這個價格決定他在畜牧法有一些特別規定所以如果是在這個機制下去做這個產銷協調做產銷調解所產生出來的這個價格這個是有畜牧法的一個規定那如果超出這個機制之外去聯合烘台這個公平法\n\n5\n00:01:32,842 --> 00:01:48,472\n有這個查處的空間那我們也有跟這個農委會做很緊密的聯繫如果有聯合的這個市政我們一定會去查處那我們有跟這個但是整個價格就是有有應該是有淡基協會\n\n6\n00:01:49,693 --> 00:02:01,220\n他們去決定嗎?所以你要怎麼說他們有聯合?就細產會跟其他的淡商還有其他的協會在做一個協調這是在畜牧法裡面規定有一個產銷協調的機制\n\n7\n00:02:03,601 --> 00:02:23,809\n是阿是阿所以可是價格還是由單一方面去決定的嗎?所以基本上你們也是說好那就基於說虛募法的規定所以這部分您就是讓他自行去決定價格那只是沒有沒有哄抬原則上你們就不介入是這個意思嗎?好那我了解齁那同樣這個問題事實上我還是要問啦齁因為\n\n8\n00:02:27,190 --> 00:02:52,246\n我們國內一直對於我們公平會那到底可以發揮怎樣的一個效能就是說公平會如果遇到的其他部會的時候是不是公平會會相對於比較弱勢就是說都讓別的單位割定為我們就不要去當概念會有這樣的狀況嗎也不會是就是說我們會看那個事情的本質看事情的本質主管的法規好那我就想要問了那像這一次銀行的併購案\n\n9\n00:02:53,467 --> 00:03:11,628\n非常精彩的本來是台新跟中跟星光嘛對不對那後來中信他有要非合意的非合意的併購所以他用他的市場上公開收購的方式那這一件事事實上公民會也有立案調查嗎\n\n10\n00:03:12,869 --> 00:03:38,325\n後來只是因為金管會就決定了中信不能使用股票加現金的方式所以他們就被迫沒辦法繼續進行這樣的一個收購但是我們知道不管是中信加新光或者台信加新光基本上他們對於國內金融業的市佔率都不會到達我們公平交易法所認為有壟斷或者是會有操控\n\n11\n00:03:41,767 --> 00:03:44,368\n中信也有來申報結合我們也有受領但是後來中信他撤\n\n12\n00:04:02,393 --> 00:04:20,843\n當然他撤了嘛對他現在是撤了所以這案就不在你身上所以我才會想跟你討論啊如果他沒撤案我還不會跟你討論欸對所以我現在要問的是說我們公平會到底可以介入的力道在哪裡就是說在我舉的這個例子假若沒有金管會\n\n13\n00:04:22,523 --> 00:04:48,188\n假如沒有中信撤的話如果中信硬認為說為什麼他們不可以繼續走公開收購因為他走公開收購對於股東也好對於星光金的業務的員工也好未必是最差的選擇這未必當然也沒有代表一定是最好但是很多是沒有走到最後是不知道的但是很明顯這件事叫金管會擋起來\n\n14\n00:04:50,968 --> 00:04:57,659\n阿這個炸起來這個動作如果站在公平會的立場那這個真的符合你們認為的公平交易嗎?\n\n15\n00:04:58,859 --> 00:05:27,555\n第一個就是說金管會他是金融的主管機關他做出什麼樣的這個決策這部分在金管會應該有他的這個考量那如果以中信他來向公民會申報而且沒有撤回的話我們還是回到我們一般結合審查的原則照我們的這個競爭秩序應該要處理的問題去審查你們還是繼續審查你們的競爭秩序嗎對啊所以所以這個就是我說的嘛我不希望\n\n16\n00:05:28,395 --> 00:05:57,011\n公平會因為我剛剛講了兩個議題一個是你們會尊重整個畜牧法的規定那另外一個你們要尊重因為公平會是整個金融界的這個金管會才是金融界的他的主管機關所以他們有他們的審查的標準但是在我們外人這樣看起來就覺得好像這個好像不是很公平的交易因為政府的手涉入太深那既然政府的手有涉入\n\n17\n00:05:57,671 --> 00:06:15,672\n的話這個是公平會應該要關心的嗎?如果中信金沒有撤案繼續申報這個結合我們還是照我們原來的這個結合程序繼續審查當然啦那是當然可是那是一個假設的狀況因為這件事已經不存在了好那第二個我再問最後一個問題齁\n\n18\n00:06:16,977 --> 00:06:28,944\n就是說因為這一次我們看到事實上很多企業在棒球的時候他們都會在網路上會去貼說如果我們台灣打到四強打到二強打贏日本我們就會有怎樣的註銷活動\n\n19\n00:06:36,408 --> 00:07:04,911\n但是這樣的促銷活動就是屬於網路的一個廣告或者是網路要去增加它的點擊率的但是也隨著越打越好它的促銷活動就越來越縮起來說哇一開始講得太滿了結果中華隊打到好到我們大家都出乎我們意料的好的時候哇結果很多這樣的一個廣告都倒縮那這樣的話會不會涉及到的違反公民法就是說他們用虛偽不實或引人錯誤的表示或表證\n\n20\n00:07:06,385 --> 00:07:06,705\n蔡易餘蔡易餘\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n13697\t27330\t好謝謝主席那我們是不是有請這個李主委請李主委欸主委好\n28291\t45762\t主委那這個針對國內彈價的問題那因為彈在今年的整年都是供過於求所以他是調降而且已經降到了歷史的一個低點那最近當然可能因為颱風的關係所以這個供過於求的狀況有比較趨緩那所以這一個彈商的協會有漲價但是這個漲價的機制公平會一直認為說\n58450\t68432\t這一個漲價機制是不透明的所以它的漲價機制是否符合現在的一個合理的一個價格那這個公平會後來調查的結果是怎樣\n70539\t92161\t跟委員說明第一個那個單價的這個價格決定他在畜牧法有一些特別規定所以如果是在這個機制下去做這個產銷協調做產銷調解所產生出來的這個價格這個是有畜牧法的一個規定那如果超出這個機制之外去聯合烘台這個公平法\n92842\t108472\t有這個查處的空間那我們也有跟這個農委會做很緊密的聯繫如果有聯合的這個市政我們一定會去查處那我們有跟這個但是整個價格就是有有應該是有淡基協會\n109693\t121220\t他們去決定嗎?所以你要怎麼說他們有聯合?就細產會跟其他的淡商還有其他的協會在做一個協調這是在畜牧法裡面規定有一個產銷協調的機制\n123601\t143809\t是阿是阿所以可是價格還是由單一方面去決定的嗎?所以基本上你們也是說好那就基於說虛募法的規定所以這部分您就是讓他自行去決定價格那只是沒有沒有哄抬原則上你們就不介入是這個意思嗎?好那我了解齁那同樣這個問題事實上我還是要問啦齁因為\n147190\t172246\t我們國內一直對於我們公平會那到底可以發揮怎樣的一個效能就是說公平會如果遇到的其他部會的時候是不是公平會會相對於比較弱勢就是說都讓別的單位割定為我們就不要去當概念會有這樣的狀況嗎也不會是就是說我們會看那個事情的本質看事情的本質主管的法規好那我就想要問了那像這一次銀行的併購案\n173467\t191628\t非常精彩的本來是台新跟中跟星光嘛對不對那後來中信他有要非合意的非合意的併購所以他用他的市場上公開收購的方式那這一件事事實上公民會也有立案調查嗎\n192869\t218325\t後來只是因為金管會就決定了中信不能使用股票加現金的方式所以他們就被迫沒辦法繼續進行這樣的一個收購但是我們知道不管是中信加新光或者台信加新光基本上他們對於國內金融業的市佔率都不會到達我們公平交易法所認為有壟斷或者是會有操控\n221767\t224368\t中信也有來申報結合我們也有受領但是後來中信他撤\n242393\t260843\t當然他撤了嘛對他現在是撤了所以這案就不在你身上所以我才會想跟你討論啊如果他沒撤案我還不會跟你討論欸對所以我現在要問的是說我們公平會到底可以介入的力道在哪裡就是說在我舉的這個例子假若沒有金管會\n262523\t288188\t假如沒有中信撤的話如果中信硬認為說為什麼他們不可以繼續走公開收購因為他走公開收購對於股東也好對於星光金的業務的員工也好未必是最差的選擇這未必當然也沒有代表一定是最好但是很多是沒有走到最後是不知道的但是很明顯這件事叫金管會擋起來\n290968\t297659\t阿這個炸起來這個動作如果站在公平會的立場那這個真的符合你們認為的公平交易嗎?\n298859\t327555\t第一個就是說金管會他是金融的主管機關他做出什麼樣的這個決策這部分在金管會應該有他的這個考量那如果以中信他來向公民會申報而且沒有撤回的話我們還是回到我們一般結合審查的原則照我們的這個競爭秩序應該要處理的問題去審查你們還是繼續審查你們的競爭秩序嗎對啊所以所以這個就是我說的嘛我不希望\n328395\t357011\t公平會因為我剛剛講了兩個議題一個是你們會尊重整個畜牧法的規定那另外一個你們要尊重因為公平會是整個金融界的這個金管會才是金融界的他的主管機關所以他們有他們的審查的標準但是在我們外人這樣看起來就覺得好像這個好像不是很公平的交易因為政府的手涉入太深那既然政府的手有涉入\n357671\t375672\t的話這個是公平會應該要關心的嗎?如果中信金沒有撤案繼續申報這個結合我們還是照我們原來的這個結合程序繼續審查當然啦那是當然可是那是一個假設的狀況因為這件事已經不存在了好那第二個我再問最後一個問題齁\n376977\t388944\t就是說因為這一次我們看到事實上很多企業在棒球的時候他們都會在網路上會去貼說如果我們台灣打到四強打到二強打贏日本我們就會有怎樣的註銷活動\n396408\t424911\t但是這樣的促銷活動就是屬於網路的一個廣告或者是網路要去增加它的點擊率的但是也隨著越打越好它的促銷活動就越來越縮起來說哇一開始講得太滿了結果中華隊打到好到我們大家都出乎我們意料的好的時候哇結果很多這樣的一個廣告都倒縮那這樣的話會不會涉及到的違反公民法就是說他們用虛偽不實或引人錯誤的表示或表證\n426385\t426705\t蔡易餘 蔡易餘\n","txt":"好謝謝主席那我們是不是有請這個李主委請李主委欸主委好\n主委那這個針對國內彈價的問題那因為彈在今年的整年都是供過於求所以他是調降而且已經降到了歷史的一個低點那最近當然可能因為颱風的關係所以這個供過於求的狀況有比較趨緩那所以這一個彈商的協會有漲價但是這個漲價的機制公平會一直認為說\n這一個漲價機制是不透明的所以它的漲價機制是否符合現在的一個合理的一個價格那這個公平會後來調查的結果是怎樣\n跟委員說明第一個那個單價的這個價格決定他在畜牧法有一些特別規定所以如果是在這個機制下去做這個產銷協調做產銷調解所產生出來的這個價格這個是有畜牧法的一個規定那如果超出這個機制之外去聯合烘台這個公平法\n有這個查處的空間那我們也有跟這個農委會做很緊密的聯繫如果有聯合的這個市政我們一定會去查處那我們有跟這個但是整個價格就是有有應該是有淡基協會\n他們去決定嗎?所以你要怎麼說他們有聯合?就細產會跟其他的淡商還有其他的協會在做一個協調這是在畜牧法裡面規定有一個產銷協調的機制\n是阿是阿所以可是價格還是由單一方面去決定的嗎?所以基本上你們也是說好那就基於說虛募法的規定所以這部分您就是讓他自行去決定價格那只是沒有沒有哄抬原則上你們就不介入是這個意思嗎?好那我了解齁那同樣這個問題事實上我還是要問啦齁因為\n我們國內一直對於我們公平會那到底可以發揮怎樣的一個效能就是說公平會如果遇到的其他部會的時候是不是公平會會相對於比較弱勢就是說都讓別的單位割定為我們就不要去當概念會有這樣的狀況嗎也不會是就是說我們會看那個事情的本質看事情的本質主管的法規好那我就想要問了那像這一次銀行的併購案\n非常精彩的本來是台新跟中跟星光嘛對不對那後來中信他有要非合意的非合意的併購所以他用他的市場上公開收購的方式那這一件事事實上公民會也有立案調查嗎\n後來只是因為金管會就決定了中信不能使用股票加現金的方式所以他們就被迫沒辦法繼續進行這樣的一個收購但是我們知道不管是中信加新光或者台信加新光基本上他們對於國內金融業的市佔率都不會到達我們公平交易法所認為有壟斷或者是會有操控\n中信也有來申報結合我們也有受領但是後來中信他撤\n當然他撤了嘛對他現在是撤了所以這案就不在你身上所以我才會想跟你討論啊如果他沒撤案我還不會跟你討論欸對所以我現在要問的是說我們公平會到底可以介入的力道在哪裡就是說在我舉的這個例子假若沒有金管會\n假如沒有中信撤的話如果中信硬認為說為什麼他們不可以繼續走公開收購因為他走公開收購對於股東也好對於星光金的業務的員工也好未必是最差的選擇這未必當然也沒有代表一定是最好但是很多是沒有走到最後是不知道的但是很明顯這件事叫金管會擋起來\n阿這個炸起來這個動作如果站在公平會的立場那這個真的符合你們認為的公平交易嗎?\n第一個就是說金管會他是金融的主管機關他做出什麼樣的這個決策這部分在金管會應該有他的這個考量那如果以中信他來向公民會申報而且沒有撤回的話我們還是回到我們一般結合審查的原則照我們的這個競爭秩序應該要處理的問題去審查你們還是繼續審查你們的競爭秩序嗎對啊所以所以這個就是我說的嘛我不希望\n公平會因為我剛剛講了兩個議題一個是你們會尊重整個畜牧法的規定那另外一個你們要尊重因為公平會是整個金融界的這個金管會才是金融界的他的主管機關所以他們有他們的審查的標準但是在我們外人這樣看起來就覺得好像這個好像不是很公平的交易因為政府的手涉入太深那既然政府的手有涉入\n的話這個是公平會應該要關心的嗎?如果中信金沒有撤案繼續申報這個結合我們還是照我們原來的這個結合程序繼續審查當然啦那是當然可是那是一個假設的狀況因為這件事已經不存在了好那第二個我再問最後一個問題齁\n就是說因為這一次我們看到事實上很多企業在棒球的時候他們都會在網路上會去貼說如果我們台灣打到四強打到二強打贏日本我們就會有怎樣的註銷活動\n但是這樣的促銷活動就是屬於網路的一個廣告或者是網路要去增加它的點擊率的但是也隨著越打越好它的促銷活動就越來越縮起來說哇一開始講得太滿了結果中華隊打到好到我們大家都出乎我們意料的好的時候哇結果很多這樣的一個廣告都倒縮那這樣的話會不會涉及到的違反公民法就是說他們用虛偽不實或引人錯誤的表示或表證\n蔡易餘 蔡易餘\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:13.697 --> 00:27.330\n好謝謝主席那我們是不是有請這個李主委請李主委欸主委好\n\n00:28.291 --> 00:45.762\n主委那這個針對國內彈價的問題那因為彈在今年的整年都是供過於求所以他是調降而且已經降到了歷史的一個低點那最近當然可能因為颱風的關係所以這個供過於求的狀況有比較趨緩那所以這一個彈商的協會有漲價但是這個漲價的機制公平會一直認為說\n\n00:58.450 --> 01:08.432\n這一個漲價機制是不透明的所以它的漲價機制是否符合現在的一個合理的一個價格那這個公平會後來調查的結果是怎樣\n\n01:10.539 --> 01:32.161\n跟委員說明第一個那個單價的這個價格決定他在畜牧法有一些特別規定所以如果是在這個機制下去做這個產銷協調做產銷調解所產生出來的這個價格這個是有畜牧法的一個規定那如果超出這個機制之外去聯合烘台這個公平法\n\n01:32.842 --> 01:48.472\n有這個查處的空間那我們也有跟這個農委會做很緊密的聯繫如果有聯合的這個市政我們一定會去查處那我們有跟這個但是整個價格就是有有應該是有淡基協會\n\n01:49.693 --> 02:01.220\n他們去決定嗎?所以你要怎麼說他們有聯合?就細產會跟其他的淡商還有其他的協會在做一個協調這是在畜牧法裡面規定有一個產銷協調的機制\n\n02:03.601 --> 02:23.809\n是阿是阿所以可是價格還是由單一方面去決定的嗎?所以基本上你們也是說好那就基於說虛募法的規定所以這部分您就是讓他自行去決定價格那只是沒有沒有哄抬原則上你們就不介入是這個意思嗎?好那我了解齁那同樣這個問題事實上我還是要問啦齁因為\n\n02:27.190 --> 02:52.246\n我們國內一直對於我們公平會那到底可以發揮怎樣的一個效能就是說公平會如果遇到的其他部會的時候是不是公平會會相對於比較弱勢就是說都讓別的單位割定為我們就不要去當概念會有這樣的狀況嗎也不會是就是說我們會看那個事情的本質看事情的本質主管的法規好那我就想要問了那像這一次銀行的併購案\n\n02:53.467 --> 03:11.628\n非常精彩的本來是台新跟中跟星光嘛對不對那後來中信他有要非合意的非合意的併購所以他用他的市場上公開收購的方式那這一件事事實上公民會也有立案調查嗎\n\n03:12.869 --> 03:38.325\n後來只是因為金管會就決定了中信不能使用股票加現金的方式所以他們就被迫沒辦法繼續進行這樣的一個收購但是我們知道不管是中信加新光或者台信加新光基本上他們對於國內金融業的市佔率都不會到達我們公平交易法所認為有壟斷或者是會有操控\n\n03:41.767 --> 03:44.368\n中信也有來申報結合我們也有受領但是後來中信他撤\n\n04:02.393 --> 04:20.843\n當然他撤了嘛對他現在是撤了所以這案就不在你身上所以我才會想跟你討論啊如果他沒撤案我還不會跟你討論欸對所以我現在要問的是說我們公平會到底可以介入的力道在哪裡就是說在我舉的這個例子假若沒有金管會\n\n04:22.523 --> 04:48.188\n假如沒有中信撤的話如果中信硬認為說為什麼他們不可以繼續走公開收購因為他走公開收購對於股東也好對於星光金的業務的員工也好未必是最差的選擇這未必當然也沒有代表一定是最好但是很多是沒有走到最後是不知道的但是很明顯這件事叫金管會擋起來\n\n04:50.968 --> 04:57.659\n阿這個炸起來這個動作如果站在公平會的立場那這個真的符合你們認為的公平交易嗎?\n\n04:58.859 --> 05:27.555\n第一個就是說金管會他是金融的主管機關他做出什麼樣的這個決策這部分在金管會應該有他的這個考量那如果以中信他來向公民會申報而且沒有撤回的話我們還是回到我們一般結合審查的原則照我們的這個競爭秩序應該要處理的問題去審查你們還是繼續審查你們的競爭秩序嗎對啊所以所以這個就是我說的嘛我不希望\n\n05:28.395 --> 05:57.011\n公平會因為我剛剛講了兩個議題一個是你們會尊重整個畜牧法的規定那另外一個你們要尊重因為公平會是整個金融界的這個金管會才是金融界的他的主管機關所以他們有他們的審查的標準但是在我們外人這樣看起來就覺得好像這個好像不是很公平的交易因為政府的手涉入太深那既然政府的手有涉入\n\n05:57.671 --> 06:15.672\n的話這個是公平會應該要關心的嗎?如果中信金沒有撤案繼續申報這個結合我們還是照我們原來的這個結合程序繼續審查當然啦那是當然可是那是一個假設的狀況因為這件事已經不存在了好那第二個我再問最後一個問題齁\n\n06:16.977 --> 06:28.944\n就是說因為這一次我們看到事實上很多企業在棒球的時候他們都會在網路上會去貼說如果我們台灣打到四強打到二強打贏日本我們就會有怎樣的註銷活動\n\n06:36.408 --> 07:04.911\n但是這樣的促銷活動就是屬於網路的一個廣告或者是網路要去增加它的點擊率的但是也隨著越打越好它的促銷活動就越來越縮起來說哇一開始講得太滿了結果中華隊打到好到我們大家都出乎我們意料的好的時候哇結果很多這樣的一個廣告都倒縮那這樣的話會不會涉及到的違反公民法就是說他們用虛偽不實或引人錯誤的表示或表證\n\n07:06.385 --> 07:06.705\n蔡易餘蔡易餘\n\n","segments":[{"start":13.697,"end":27.33,"text":"好謝謝主席那我們是不是有請這個李主委請李主委欸主委好"},{"start":28.291,"end":45.762,"text":"主委那這個針對國內彈價的問題那因為彈在今年的整年都是供過於求所以他是調降而且已經降到了歷史的一個低點那最近當然可能因為颱風的關係所以這個供過於求的狀況有比較趨緩那所以這一個彈商的協會有漲價但是這個漲價的機制公平會一直認為說"},{"start":58.45,"end":68.432,"text":"這一個漲價機制是不透明的所以它的漲價機制是否符合現在的一個合理的一個價格那這個公平會後來調查的結果是怎樣"},{"start":70.539,"end":92.161,"text":"跟委員說明第一個那個單價的這個價格決定他在畜牧法有一些特別規定所以如果是在這個機制下去做這個產銷協調做產銷調解所產生出來的這個價格這個是有畜牧法的一個規定那如果超出這個機制之外去聯合烘台這個公平法"},{"start":92.842,"end":108.472,"text":"有這個查處的空間那我們也有跟這個農委會做很緊密的聯繫如果有聯合的這個市政我們一定會去查處那我們有跟這個但是整個價格就是有有應該是有淡基協會"},{"start":109.693,"end":121.22,"text":"他們去決定嗎?所以你要怎麼說他們有聯合?就細產會跟其他的淡商還有其他的協會在做一個協調這是在畜牧法裡面規定有一個產銷協調的機制"},{"start":123.601,"end":143.809,"text":"是阿是阿所以可是價格還是由單一方面去決定的嗎?所以基本上你們也是說好那就基於說虛募法的規定所以這部分您就是讓他自行去決定價格那只是沒有沒有哄抬原則上你們就不介入是這個意思嗎?好那我了解齁那同樣這個問題事實上我還是要問啦齁因為"},{"start":147.19,"end":172.246,"text":"我們國內一直對於我們公平會那到底可以發揮怎樣的一個效能就是說公平會如果遇到的其他部會的時候是不是公平會會相對於比較弱勢就是說都讓別的單位割定為我們就不要去當概念會有這樣的狀況嗎也不會是就是說我們會看那個事情的本質看事情的本質主管的法規好那我就想要問了那像這一次銀行的併購案"},{"start":173.467,"end":191.628,"text":"非常精彩的本來是台新跟中跟星光嘛對不對那後來中信他有要非合意的非合意的併購所以他用他的市場上公開收購的方式那這一件事事實上公民會也有立案調查嗎"},{"start":192.869,"end":218.325,"text":"後來只是因為金管會就決定了中信不能使用股票加現金的方式所以他們就被迫沒辦法繼續進行這樣的一個收購但是我們知道不管是中信加新光或者台信加新光基本上他們對於國內金融業的市佔率都不會到達我們公平交易法所認為有壟斷或者是會有操控"},{"start":221.767,"end":224.368,"text":"中信也有來申報結合我們也有受領但是後來中信他撤"},{"start":242.393,"end":260.843,"text":"當然他撤了嘛對他現在是撤了所以這案就不在你身上所以我才會想跟你討論啊如果他沒撤案我還不會跟你討論欸對所以我現在要問的是說我們公平會到底可以介入的力道在哪裡就是說在我舉的這個例子假若沒有金管會"},{"start":262.523,"end":288.188,"text":"假如沒有中信撤的話如果中信硬認為說為什麼他們不可以繼續走公開收購因為他走公開收購對於股東也好對於星光金的業務的員工也好未必是最差的選擇這未必當然也沒有代表一定是最好但是很多是沒有走到最後是不知道的但是很明顯這件事叫金管會擋起來"},{"start":290.968,"end":297.659,"text":"阿這個炸起來這個動作如果站在公平會的立場那這個真的符合你們認為的公平交易嗎?"},{"start":298.859,"end":327.555,"text":"第一個就是說金管會他是金融的主管機關他做出什麼樣的這個決策這部分在金管會應該有他的這個考量那如果以中信他來向公民會申報而且沒有撤回的話我們還是回到我們一般結合審查的原則照我們的這個競爭秩序應該要處理的問題去審查你們還是繼續審查你們的競爭秩序嗎對啊所以所以這個就是我說的嘛我不希望"},{"start":328.395,"end":357.011,"text":"公平會因為我剛剛講了兩個議題一個是你們會尊重整個畜牧法的規定那另外一個你們要尊重因為公平會是整個金融界的這個金管會才是金融界的他的主管機關所以他們有他們的審查的標準但是在我們外人這樣看起來就覺得好像這個好像不是很公平的交易因為政府的手涉入太深那既然政府的手有涉入"},{"start":357.671,"end":375.672,"text":"的話這個是公平會應該要關心的嗎?如果中信金沒有撤案繼續申報這個結合我們還是照我們原來的這個結合程序繼續審查當然啦那是當然可是那是一個假設的狀況因為這件事已經不存在了好那第二個我再問最後一個問題齁"},{"start":376.977,"end":388.944,"text":"就是說因為這一次我們看到事實上很多企業在棒球的時候他們都會在網路上會去貼說如果我們台灣打到四強打到二強打贏日本我們就會有怎樣的註銷活動"},{"start":396.408,"end":424.911,"text":"但是這樣的促銷活動就是屬於網路的一個廣告或者是網路要去增加它的點擊率的但是也隨著越打越好它的促銷活動就越來越縮起來說哇一開始講得太滿了結果中華隊打到好到我們大家都出乎我們意料的好的時候哇結果很多這樣的一個廣告都倒縮那這樣的話會不會涉及到的違反公民法就是說他們用虛偽不實或引人錯誤的表示或表證"},{"start":426.385,"end":426.705,"text":"蔡易餘 蔡易餘"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":914,"blocks":[["蔡委員易餘：（11時32分）謝謝主席。是不是有請李主委？"],["主席：請李主委。"],["蔡委員易餘：主委好。主委，針對國內蛋價的問題，因為蛋在今年整年都是供過於求，所以價格調降，而且已經降到歷史低點。最近可能因為颱風的關係，供過於求的狀況比較趨緩，所以蛋商協會有漲價，但是公平會一直認為這個漲價機制不透明。現在蛋價是否為合理價格？公平會後來調查的結果怎麼樣？"],["李主任委員鎂：跟委員說明，第一個，蛋價的價格決定在畜牧法有一些特別規定，如果是在這個機制下做產銷調節而產生的價格，畜牧法有相關規定，如果超出這個機制之外去聯合哄抬，公平法有查處的空間。我們也有和農委會做很緊密的聯繫，如果有聯合的事證，我們一定會去查處，我們有和……"],["蔡委員易餘：但是價格應該是由蛋雞協會決定，所以你們要怎麼證明他們有聯合行為？"],["李主任委員鎂：就是由畜產會和其他蛋商、協會協調，畜牧法裡面有規定，有一個產銷協調的機制。"],["蔡委員易餘：是啊！可是價格還是由單一方面決定嘛！"],["李主任委員鎂：對。這當中會去談……"],["蔡委員易餘：所以基本上你們也是基於畜牧法的規定，讓他們自行決定價格，只要沒有哄抬，原則上你們就不介入，是這個意思嗎？"],["李主任委員鎂：是的。"],["蔡委員易餘：好，我了解了。同樣這個問題，我還是要問，因為國內一直質疑公平會到底可以發揮什麼樣的效能，如果遇到其他部會，公平會是不是相對弱勢？就是由大家決定，你們不介入，會有這樣的狀況嗎？"],["李主任委員鎂：也不會，我們會看事情的本質及主管的法規。"],["蔡委員易餘：好，我就想要問了，像這次銀行的併購案非常精彩，本來是台新和新光，對不對？"],["李主任委員鎂：是。"],["蔡委員易餘：後來中信用非合意的併購方式在市場上公開收購。事實上這件事公平會也有立案調查，只是後來金管會決定中信不能使用股票加現金的方式，所以他們被迫沒辦法繼續進行這樣的收購。但是我們知道，不管是中信加新光，或者台新加新光，基本上他們在國內金融業的市占率都不會到達公平交易法認為的壟斷，或者會有操控金融的狀況。既然是這樣，看起來金管會單方面的決定對中信是不公平的，這部分公平會有置喙的空間嗎？"],["李主任委員鎂：中信有來申報結合，我們也有受理，但是後來中信撤案。"],["蔡委員易餘：當然它撤案了嘛！所以這案就不在你，是吧？"],["李主任委員鎂：是。"],["蔡委員易餘：所以我才會想和你討論，如果它沒撤案，本席還不會和你討論。我現在要問的是，公平會可以介入的力道在哪裡？在我舉的這個例子，假若中信沒有撤案，中信硬認為為什麼他們不可以繼續公開收購，因為它公開收購對股東也好或是對新光金業務的員工也好，未必是最差的選擇，當然，也不是代表一定是最好的，但是很多事沒有走到最後就不會知道結果。但是很明顯地，這件事情被金管會阻攔，這個阻攔的動作，站在公平會的立場，真的符合你們認為的公平交易嗎？"],["李主任委員鎂：第一個，金管會是金融主管機關，不管做出什麼樣的決策，這部分金管會應該有他們的考量。如果中信向公平會申報，而且沒有撤回的話，我們還是回到一般結合審查的原則，依照競爭秩序應該要處理的問題進行審查。"],["蔡委員易餘：你們還是繼續審查競爭秩序的部分嘛！"],["李主任委員鎂：我們會繼續審查，我們也不會……"],["蔡委員易餘：對啊！所以這就是我說的，我剛剛說了兩個議題，一個是你們尊重畜牧法的規定；另外一個，因為金管會才是金融界的主管機關，他們有他們的審查標準，但是就外人看起來，會覺得這樣好像不是很公平的交易，因為政府的手涉入太深。"],["李主任委員鎂：如果它沒有撤回，我們一樣會審查。"],["蔡委員易餘：如果政府的手涉入，這是公平會應該關心的嗎？"],["李主任委員鎂：如果中信金沒有撤案，繼續申報這個結合，我們還是會照原來的結合程序繼續審查。"],["蔡委員易餘：當然啦！可是那是一個假設的狀況，因為這件事已經不存在了。第二個，本席再問最後一個問題，這次我們看到很多企業在棒球比賽舉行的時候在網路貼文，如果臺灣打到四強、二強或打贏日本，他們就會做怎樣的活動，這樣的促銷活動就是屬於網路廣告，或者是想要增加網路點擊率；但是隨著比賽越打越好，業者的活動內容就越來越縮水，因為一開始說得太滿，結果中華隊的狀況好到大家都出乎意料，所以很多這類的廣告活動內容都縮水，這樣是否違反公平交易法，因為他們用虛偽不實或引人錯誤的表示或表徵？"],["李主任委員鎂：不排除有這個可能，所以這個案子我們會去了解。"],["蔡委員易餘：好，你們應該要介入調查，調查結果是不是再提供給我們辦公室？"],["李主任委員鎂：沒有問題。"],["蔡委員易餘：好，謝謝。"],["主席：請蘇清泉、蘇清泉，蘇清泉委員不在。","請葉元之委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":54,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-18","speakers":["呂玉玲","陳亭妃","林岱樺","邱議瑩","鄭正鈐","張啓楷","楊瓊瓔","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張嘉郡","謝衣鳯","賴瑞隆","邱志偉","洪孟楷","王鴻薇","陳超明","蔡易餘","葉元之"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-28"],"gazette_id":"11310801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310801_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第18次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於公平交易委員會單位預算及附屬單位預算非營業部分關於公\n平交易委員會主管：反托拉斯基金（詢答）","agenda_id":"11310801_00001"}}}