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374.731, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 374.731, \"end\": 374.811, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 374.811, \"end\": 374.831, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,100 --> 00:00:00,921\n請葉元之委員諮詢請公平會主委謝謝\n\n2\n00:00:23,356 --> 00:00:37,638\n委員好主委好想來關心一下UberE要併購Foodpanda這個問題根據有民調的顯示有7成的外送員還有7成的商家都反對這個合併案主委你知道原因嗎我知道原因是什麼\n\n3\n00:00:40,502 --> 00:00:57,419\n這個就外送員來講他是擔心以後市場力集中的話可能跟這個平台在他們的報酬優惠各方面在談判的條件上處於一個更不平等的這個情況。好那對店家而言呢?店家擔心他將來抽成比例會提高,談判的立場不對等。\n\n4\n00:00:57,719 --> 00:01:23,054\n所以其實主委你都知道這個狀況了其實過去也有非常多店家來跟我們反映就是說在跟平台談判的時候其實居宇非常弱勢所以平台對他們抽成有的到38%四成都有他們賺的利潤全部被平台抽走但是不加入也不行啊因為這平台很大大家已經習慣用平台訂餐而且另外一方面就是平台它的營運模式是他先跟消費者收錢嘛然後再把錢給店家\n\n5\n00:01:24,275 --> 00:01:41,489\n然後這個時候呢如果交易的過程有遇到什麼狀況責任全部都是由店家來來付啊而且申訴管道也不暢通很多的問題所以呢主委今天你在核定這個合併案的時候一定要把這些都考量進去對整個市場對消費者或對店家來講到底是\n\n6\n00:01:42,170 --> 00:02:01,919\n利益大於弊還是弊大於利我覺得是非常必須要注意那我知道你們合併案會考慮有沒有壟斷這是一個考量的因素那有沒有壟斷這個其實跟你怎麼計算它的母數有關如果你的母數你如果把一些什麼快遞業把郵局全部算進來的話都算在萬壽產業的話\n\n7\n00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:03,480\n我們的市場界定是餐飲外送平臺\n\n8\n00:02:20,276 --> 00:02:46,722\n外送平台,譬如說哪些?譬如說UberEats,譬如說這個Foodpanda,其他我們還有其他那個Fudomo,這也是外送平台。好,那我跟您請教,之前蘇巴布部長唐鳳,花了100億,開發一個點線面平台,叫臺灣雲市集,請問一下這個平台會列入我們的母數計算嗎?沒有,這個不會是母數計算。為什麼?他也是做點餐啊,也是外送啊,為什麼不列入?\n\n9\n00:02:48,712 --> 00:03:06,873\n我們的這個外送平台是有外送員有點餐等等吼那所以他在市場界定上對所以你的市場界點模糊嘛因為我剛剛講那個臺灣雲市集一樣啊他那時候也是鼓勵大家用LINE啊直接點餐啊然後第一個不用到現場排隊啊第二個一定的公里數以內也有外送啊\n\n10\n00:03:07,253 --> 00:03:26,719\n跟委員說明您剛剛提到的就是說那個分母如果越大這個市佔率就會越低所以你是因為這個原因不把台灣雲市集算進去我們用餐飲外送平台去界定這兩家結合之後市佔率是相當高其實我跟你講你就算把台灣雲市集算到母數也沒什麼差別因為沒什麼使用\n\n11\n00:03:27,739 --> 00:03:46,970\n我現在只要跟你講說如果我們要我們希望我們不要外送平台獨大我們政府已經花百億做這個平台然後都沒有人使用也是很荒謬的一件事情啦但這是另外一個議題啦所以那個主委你可以去關心一下這個臺灣雲市集花了一百億沒有人要用到底怎麼回事你可以鼓勵他們\n\n12\n00:03:48,486 --> 00:04:12,743\n多一點人使用就在市場壟斷的機率就會比較小這第一件事情第二件事情在他審這個合併的過程當中你可不可以要求業者把一些社會責任加進來因為我跟你講有些偏鄉包括有時候城市的人他們可能去有些縣市去度假或去玩的時候想要叫那個外送來吃然後結果完全沒有外送\n\n13\n00:04:13,664 --> 00:04:31,745\n那以後如果說合併之後這個狀況會越來越嚴重因為他是他是將本求利嘛有利可圖才會去啊可是他就沒有辦法服務到全台灣但這個東西外送平台這東西已經變成好像大家一個必需品了所以所以可不可以把這個問題問他就是加入社會責任他可以用補貼方式嗎\n\n14\n00:04:33,127 --> 00:04:47,322\n讓一些外送員、店家去參與到比較偏鄉的地區然後來做這個外送的服務主委這個在你的職權有可能做到嗎我想跟委員說明一個結合案如果我們禁止那就是禁止了根本不會去結合\n\n15\n00:04:48,122 --> 00:05:02,333\n所以說你會直接禁止或同意不會有條件的同意如果同意又需要附條件的話才會說你必須要做什麼事做什麼事如果禁止的就沒有在談這個問題所以你現在是確定會禁止嗎\n\n16\n00:05:03,432 --> 00:05:30,699\n現在還要經過委員會討論所以我現在討論的是說如果你要同意的狀況下你要設定一些條件要不要禁止當然以你的角度來判斷可是其實大家現在擔心你要同意那你如果同意的話你如果要同意那你要設定條件你要把剛剛大家講的疑慮那些條件把它規定清楚不要造成市場壟斷然後不要影響到消費者的權益然後甚至於說要他發揮社會責任\n\n17\n00:05:32,139 --> 00:05:54,413\n假設他做不到你就不要給他同意嘛對不對你就給他禁止嘛所以現在聽起來好像主委你是朝向禁止的角度嘛我這樣解讀得錯嗎我的意思就是說因為剛剛委員提到說要請他做哪一些事我是說如果你要同意的話但是你直接講說不用啦不用啦如果禁止就不談條件如果同意就可以談條件是嗎\n\n18\n00:05:55,794 --> 00:06:14,831\n所以你現在因為你還沒確定所以我才會講這些對嗎那可是你說不用談了因為我們就是會禁止我解讀是這樣嘛我沒有這個意思你透露這樣啦你透露出這樣談條件是有同意的情況下會談這我當然知道啊但為什麼要反駁我所以代表你要禁止是不是好謝謝大家謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n100\t921\t請葉元之委員諮詢請公平會主委謝謝\n23356\t37638\t委員好主委好想來關心一下Uber E要併購Foodpanda這個問題根據有民調的顯示有7成的外送員還有7成的商家都反對這個合併案主委你知道原因嗎我知道原因是什麼\n40502\t57419\t這個就外送員來講他是擔心以後市場力集中的話可能跟這個平台在他們的報酬優惠各方面在談判的條件上處於一個更不平等的這個情況。好那對店家而言呢?店家擔心他將來抽成比例會提高,談判的立場不對等。\n57719\t83054\t所以其實主委你都知道這個狀況了其實過去也有非常多店家來跟我們反映就是說在跟平台談判的時候其實居宇非常弱勢所以平台對他們抽成有的到38%四成都有他們賺的利潤全部被平台抽走但是不加入也不行啊因為這平台很大大家已經習慣用平台訂餐而且另外一方面就是平台它的營運模式是他先跟消費者收錢嘛然後再把錢給店家\n84275\t101489\t然後這個時候呢如果交易的過程有遇到什麼狀況責任全部都是由店家來來付啊而且申訴管道也不暢通很多的問題所以呢主委今天你在核定這個合併案的時候一定要把這些都考量進去對整個市場對消費者或對店家來講到底是\n102170\t121919\t利益大於弊還是弊大於利我覺得是非常必須要注意那我知道你們合併案會考慮有沒有壟斷這是一個考量的因素那有沒有壟斷這個其實跟你怎麼計算它的母數有關如果你的母數你如果把一些什麼快遞業把郵局全部算進來的話都算在萬壽產業的話\n123160\t123480\t我們的市場界定是餐飲外送平臺\n140276\t166722\t外送平台,譬如說哪些?譬如說Uber Eats,譬如說這個Foodpanda,其他我們還有其他那個Fudomo,這也是外送平台。好,那我跟您請教,之前蘇巴布部長唐鳳,花了100億,開發一個點線面平台,叫臺灣雲市集,請問一下這個平台會列入我們的母數計算嗎?沒有,這個不會是母數計算。為什麼?他也是做點餐啊,也是外送啊,為什麼不列入?\n168712\t186873\t我們的這個外送平台是有外送員有點餐等等吼那所以他在市場界定上對所以你的市場界點模糊嘛因為我剛剛講那個臺灣雲市集一樣啊他那時候也是鼓勵大家用LINE啊直接點餐啊然後第一個不用到現場排隊啊第二個一定的公里數以內也有外送啊\n187253\t206719\t跟委員說明您剛剛提到的就是說那個分母如果越大這個市佔率就會越低所以你是因為這個原因不把台灣雲市集算進去我們用餐飲外送平台去界定這兩家結合之後市佔率是相當高其實我跟你講你就算把台灣雲市集算到母數也沒什麼差別因為沒什麼使用\n207739\t226970\t我現在只要跟你講說如果我們要我們希望我們不要外送平台獨大我們政府已經花百億做這個平台然後都沒有人使用也是很荒謬的一件事情啦但這是另外一個議題啦所以那個主委你可以去關心一下這個臺灣雲市集花了一百億沒有人要用到底怎麼回事你可以鼓勵他們\n228486\t252743\t多一點人使用就在市場壟斷的機率就會比較小這第一件事情第二件事情在他審這個合併的過程當中你可不可以要求業者把一些社會責任加進來因為我跟你講有些偏鄉包括有時候城市的人他們可能去有些縣市去度假或去玩的時候想要叫那個外送來吃然後結果完全沒有外送\n253664\t271745\t那以後如果說合併之後這個狀況會越來越嚴重因為他是他是將本求利嘛有利可圖才會去啊可是他就沒有辦法服務到全台灣但這個東西外送平台這東西已經變成好像大家一個必需品了所以所以可不可以把這個問題問他就是加入社會責任他可以用補貼方式嗎\n273127\t287322\t讓一些外送員、店家去參與到比較偏鄉的地區然後來做這個外送的服務主委這個在你的職權有可能做到嗎我想跟委員說明一個結合案如果我們禁止那就是禁止了根本不會去結合\n288122\t302333\t所以說你會直接禁止或同意 不會有條件的同意如果同意 又需要附條件的話才會說你必須要做什麼事做什麼事 如果禁止的就沒有在談這個問題所以你現在是確定會禁止嗎\n303432\t330699\t現在還要經過委員會討論所以我現在討論的是說如果你要同意的狀況下你要設定一些條件要不要禁止當然以你的角度來判斷可是其實大家現在擔心你要同意那你如果同意的話你如果要同意那你要設定條件你要把剛剛大家講的疑慮那些條件把它規定清楚不要造成市場壟斷然後不要影響到消費者的權益然後甚至於說要他發揮社會責任\n332139\t354413\t假設他做不到你就不要給他同意嘛 對不對你就給他禁止嘛 所以現在聽起來好像主委你是朝向禁止的角度嘛 我這樣解讀得錯嗎我的意思就是說 因為剛剛委員提到說要請他做哪一些事我是說如果你要同意的話 但是你直接講說不用啦 不用啦如果禁止就不談條件 如果同意就可以談條件 是嗎\n355794\t374831\t所以你現在因為你還沒確定所以我才會講這些對嗎那可是你說不用談了因為我們就是會禁止我解讀是這樣嘛我沒有這個意思你透露這樣啦你透露出這樣談條件是有同意的情況下會談這我當然知道啊但為什麼要反駁我所以代表你要禁止是不是好謝謝大家謝謝\n","txt":"請葉元之委員諮詢請公平會主委謝謝\n委員好主委好想來關心一下Uber E要併購Foodpanda這個問題根據有民調的顯示有7成的外送員還有7成的商家都反對這個合併案主委你知道原因嗎我知道原因是什麼\n這個就外送員來講他是擔心以後市場力集中的話可能跟這個平台在他們的報酬優惠各方面在談判的條件上處於一個更不平等的這個情況。好那對店家而言呢?店家擔心他將來抽成比例會提高,談判的立場不對等。\n所以其實主委你都知道這個狀況了其實過去也有非常多店家來跟我們反映就是說在跟平台談判的時候其實居宇非常弱勢所以平台對他們抽成有的到38%四成都有他們賺的利潤全部被平台抽走但是不加入也不行啊因為這平台很大大家已經習慣用平台訂餐而且另外一方面就是平台它的營運模式是他先跟消費者收錢嘛然後再把錢給店家\n然後這個時候呢如果交易的過程有遇到什麼狀況責任全部都是由店家來來付啊而且申訴管道也不暢通很多的問題所以呢主委今天你在核定這個合併案的時候一定要把這些都考量進去對整個市場對消費者或對店家來講到底是\n利益大於弊還是弊大於利我覺得是非常必須要注意那我知道你們合併案會考慮有沒有壟斷這是一個考量的因素那有沒有壟斷這個其實跟你怎麼計算它的母數有關如果你的母數你如果把一些什麼快遞業把郵局全部算進來的話都算在萬壽產業的話\n我們的市場界定是餐飲外送平臺\n外送平台,譬如說哪些?譬如說Uber Eats,譬如說這個Foodpanda,其他我們還有其他那個Fudomo,這也是外送平台。好,那我跟您請教,之前蘇巴布部長唐鳳,花了100億,開發一個點線面平台,叫臺灣雲市集,請問一下這個平台會列入我們的母數計算嗎?沒有,這個不會是母數計算。為什麼?他也是做點餐啊,也是外送啊,為什麼不列入?\n我們的這個外送平台是有外送員有點餐等等吼那所以他在市場界定上對所以你的市場界點模糊嘛因為我剛剛講那個臺灣雲市集一樣啊他那時候也是鼓勵大家用LINE啊直接點餐啊然後第一個不用到現場排隊啊第二個一定的公里數以內也有外送啊\n跟委員說明您剛剛提到的就是說那個分母如果越大這個市佔率就會越低所以你是因為這個原因不把台灣雲市集算進去我們用餐飲外送平台去界定這兩家結合之後市佔率是相當高其實我跟你講你就算把台灣雲市集算到母數也沒什麼差別因為沒什麼使用\n我現在只要跟你講說如果我們要我們希望我們不要外送平台獨大我們政府已經花百億做這個平台然後都沒有人使用也是很荒謬的一件事情啦但這是另外一個議題啦所以那個主委你可以去關心一下這個臺灣雲市集花了一百億沒有人要用到底怎麼回事你可以鼓勵他們\n多一點人使用就在市場壟斷的機率就會比較小這第一件事情第二件事情在他審這個合併的過程當中你可不可以要求業者把一些社會責任加進來因為我跟你講有些偏鄉包括有時候城市的人他們可能去有些縣市去度假或去玩的時候想要叫那個外送來吃然後結果完全沒有外送\n那以後如果說合併之後這個狀況會越來越嚴重因為他是他是將本求利嘛有利可圖才會去啊可是他就沒有辦法服務到全台灣但這個東西外送平台這東西已經變成好像大家一個必需品了所以所以可不可以把這個問題問他就是加入社會責任他可以用補貼方式嗎\n讓一些外送員、店家去參與到比較偏鄉的地區然後來做這個外送的服務主委這個在你的職權有可能做到嗎我想跟委員說明一個結合案如果我們禁止那就是禁止了根本不會去結合\n所以說你會直接禁止或同意 不會有條件的同意如果同意 又需要附條件的話才會說你必須要做什麼事做什麼事 如果禁止的就沒有在談這個問題所以你現在是確定會禁止嗎\n現在還要經過委員會討論所以我現在討論的是說如果你要同意的狀況下你要設定一些條件要不要禁止當然以你的角度來判斷可是其實大家現在擔心你要同意那你如果同意的話你如果要同意那你要設定條件你要把剛剛大家講的疑慮那些條件把它規定清楚不要造成市場壟斷然後不要影響到消費者的權益然後甚至於說要他發揮社會責任\n假設他做不到你就不要給他同意嘛 對不對你就給他禁止嘛 所以現在聽起來好像主委你是朝向禁止的角度嘛 我這樣解讀得錯嗎我的意思就是說 因為剛剛委員提到說要請他做哪一些事我是說如果你要同意的話 但是你直接講說不用啦 不用啦如果禁止就不談條件 如果同意就可以談條件 是嗎\n所以你現在因為你還沒確定所以我才會講這些對嗎那可是你說不用談了因為我們就是會禁止我解讀是這樣嘛我沒有這個意思你透露這樣啦你透露出這樣談條件是有同意的情況下會談這我當然知道啊但為什麼要反駁我所以代表你要禁止是不是好謝謝大家謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.100 --> 00:00.921\n請葉元之委員諮詢請公平會主委謝謝\n\n00:23.356 --> 00:37.638\n委員好主委好想來關心一下UberE要併購Foodpanda這個問題根據有民調的顯示有7成的外送員還有7成的商家都反對這個合併案主委你知道原因嗎我知道原因是什麼\n\n00:40.502 --> 00:57.419\n這個就外送員來講他是擔心以後市場力集中的話可能跟這個平台在他們的報酬優惠各方面在談判的條件上處於一個更不平等的這個情況。好那對店家而言呢?店家擔心他將來抽成比例會提高,談判的立場不對等。\n\n00:57.719 --> 01:23.054\n所以其實主委你都知道這個狀況了其實過去也有非常多店家來跟我們反映就是說在跟平台談判的時候其實居宇非常弱勢所以平台對他們抽成有的到38%四成都有他們賺的利潤全部被平台抽走但是不加入也不行啊因為這平台很大大家已經習慣用平台訂餐而且另外一方面就是平台它的營運模式是他先跟消費者收錢嘛然後再把錢給店家\n\n01:24.275 --> 01:41.489\n然後這個時候呢如果交易的過程有遇到什麼狀況責任全部都是由店家來來付啊而且申訴管道也不暢通很多的問題所以呢主委今天你在核定這個合併案的時候一定要把這些都考量進去對整個市場對消費者或對店家來講到底是\n\n01:42.170 --> 02:01.919\n利益大於弊還是弊大於利我覺得是非常必須要注意那我知道你們合併案會考慮有沒有壟斷這是一個考量的因素那有沒有壟斷這個其實跟你怎麼計算它的母數有關如果你的母數你如果把一些什麼快遞業把郵局全部算進來的話都算在萬壽產業的話\n\n02:03.160 --> 02:03.480\n我們的市場界定是餐飲外送平臺\n\n02:20.276 --> 02:46.722\n外送平台,譬如說哪些?譬如說UberEats,譬如說這個Foodpanda,其他我們還有其他那個Fudomo,這也是外送平台。好,那我跟您請教,之前蘇巴布部長唐鳳,花了100億,開發一個點線面平台,叫臺灣雲市集,請問一下這個平台會列入我們的母數計算嗎?沒有,這個不會是母數計算。為什麼?他也是做點餐啊,也是外送啊,為什麼不列入?\n\n02:48.712 --> 03:06.873\n我們的這個外送平台是有外送員有點餐等等吼那所以他在市場界定上對所以你的市場界點模糊嘛因為我剛剛講那個臺灣雲市集一樣啊他那時候也是鼓勵大家用LINE啊直接點餐啊然後第一個不用到現場排隊啊第二個一定的公里數以內也有外送啊\n\n03:07.253 --> 03:26.719\n跟委員說明您剛剛提到的就是說那個分母如果越大這個市佔率就會越低所以你是因為這個原因不把台灣雲市集算進去我們用餐飲外送平台去界定這兩家結合之後市佔率是相當高其實我跟你講你就算把台灣雲市集算到母數也沒什麼差別因為沒什麼使用\n\n03:27.739 --> 03:46.970\n我現在只要跟你講說如果我們要我們希望我們不要外送平台獨大我們政府已經花百億做這個平台然後都沒有人使用也是很荒謬的一件事情啦但這是另外一個議題啦所以那個主委你可以去關心一下這個臺灣雲市集花了一百億沒有人要用到底怎麼回事你可以鼓勵他們\n\n03:48.486 --> 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Kacaw","張嘉郡","謝衣鳯","賴瑞隆","邱志偉","洪孟楷","王鴻薇","陳超明","蔡易餘","葉元之"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-28"],"gazette_id":"11310801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310801_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第18次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於公平交易委員會單位預算及附屬單位預算非營業部分關於公\n平交易委員會主管：反托拉斯基金（詢答）","agenda_id":"11310801_00001"}}}