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\"好\", \"start\": 564.647, \"end\": 564.667, \"score\": 0.483}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,093 --> 00:00:34,513\n謝謝主席,麻煩請找主計長跟審計長主計長跟審計長委員好兩位好,最近這段時間在審預算也發生了很多的事情我們回去最基礎的教科書告訴我們財政是國家肅政之母\n\n2\n00:00:35,529 --> 00:00:49,670\n我們建立了預算的制度、會計的制度、決算的制度最後到審計就是希望看好人民的荷包錢不要亂花延續著上一次質詢的主題\n\n3\n00:00:51,701 --> 00:01:06,247\n我最近陷入了迷惘我陷入了迷惘是說從預算到會計到決算到最後的審計我們有做到這件事嗎我們到底要怎麼做才可以防止政府機關\n\n4\n00:01:08,248 --> 00:01:30,979\n隨便亂花人民的錢胡搞瞎搞整個制度有沒有辦法追究責任我上次跟主計長報告如果在我們現行的制度之下一切合法對不起啊我很難接受為什麼這樣講我上次講的啊是園民會的主委花145萬出個人成果專刊結果\n\n5\n00:01:34,847 --> 00:02:03,314\n主計總處說預算經費的使用要符合計畫內容一開始預算書根本沒寫這個東西啊沒寫又怎麼樣我愛花就花我就是要這樣花結果我去調資料才知道從其他的項目隨便撥來給他個人出寫真集這件事情啊審計部你們那個專案的審計做了沒有\n\n6\n00:02:05,635 --> 00:02:31,593\n結果什麼時候會出來今天會送給委員今天送給我嘛除了這件事情以外接下來還有主要請審計長我可以老實跟審計長講過去這一兩年審計部是少有的政府機關在民間社會得到肯定審計部是少有的政府機關在民間社會得到肯定\n\n7\n00:02:32,574 --> 00:02:54,903\n我今年在處理監察院的預算的時候你們到時候看我預算提案就知道監察院我是大砍我唯一支持的只有審計部因為你們有在做你們的工作但我必須要跟審計長講的事情是可能你們在做這些工作的時候再認真\n\n8\n00:02:56,770 --> 00:03:17,257\n還是有你們沒有辦法處理的問題啊因為監督政府機關預算的執行審核財務收支考核財務效能全部都是你們審計部的責任嘛對好來看一下一個分署長的辦公室啊\n\n9\n00:03:18,447 --> 00:03:26,968\n可以裝潢成這個樣子花145萬啊花145萬啊審計部知不知道這是什麼向下支出的\n\n10\n00:03:28,547 --> 00:03:53,514\n這一個因為在他的一般行政裡面舊安基金的一般行政裡面我們正在整個在瞭解審計部有在瞭解嗎有出公函給他了需要多久我們原則上一個月裡面把這個事情弄清楚一個月我們沒那麼久啦兩禮拜好不好那我們的會加油啦盡量有照片加油啦錢這樣花喔\n\n11\n00:03:56,941 --> 00:04:23,115\n錢可以這樣花一個分署長搞成這個樣子我們現在在財務責任上完全不控管是不是更離譜的是我可能要拜託審計長納入你們審計的項目之一我找了半天這到底是什麼標案結果標案的名稱寫得很漂亮叫做新莊本部空間美化整修工程\n\n12\n00:04:24,366 --> 00:04:42,759\n一般的人看了新莊本部空間美化整修工程會覺得說啊這個是在美化整個勞動分署的辦公空間光看這個標案根本不知道原來在美化的是什麼分署長的辦公室來再請審計長看一下右手邊\n\n13\n00:04:44,120 --> 00:05:07,014\n這個是最有力標最有力標的評選委員會評選委員會的名單五個人我每一個人的資歷全部看完了以後現在在職的工作都是在北分署要不然在祕書室要不然在訓練科要不然在諮詢服務科如果啊\n\n14\n00:05:08,291 --> 00:05:31,651\n我機關首長裝潢自己的辦公室用罪有利標搞來評選委員會全部的評選委員五個都是我自己的屬下那你乾脆不要設評選委員會嘛分署長愛挑誰就挑誰啊但政府採購法有規定啊那政府採購法規定的用武如何可以這樣幹嗎審計長\n\n15\n00:05:35,498 --> 00:05:48,855\n政府採購法有政府採購法的規定我們會了解是不是符合政府採購法好這個一併列入審計的項目當中已經列進去了然後最後一個這個更奇怪\n\n16\n00:05:50,390 --> 00:06:02,461\n我今天去跟勞動部調的說明今天才回給我他承認兩件事第一個本來的預算根本沒有編這個項目本來的預算沒有編這個項目那本來的預算沒有編這個項目\n\n17\n00:06:06,926 --> 00:06:30,286\n那奇怪了許民村是花什麼錢去開演唱會結果找了半天是從就業安定基金來那問題是什麼就業安定基金這裡面的名目是什麼名目是媒體宣導的費用媒體宣導的費用大家都會想說是在宣導什麼是在宣導有關於跟就業安定有關係的宣導片嗎\n\n18\n00:06:31,383 --> 00:06:56,486\n不管是對僱主還是對勞工的宣導片結果這宣導片啊可以包裝成拿來辦演唱會啊審計長你會不會覺得很離譜我們查到我們初步瞭解和委員瞭解的一樣我們也正在整個在喊醒那個整個勞動部我希望審計部在做審計的時候\n\n19\n00:06:58,188 --> 00:07:20,230\n一定要給全體的公務機關一個清楚的訊息預算立法院審議通過以後不准掛羊頭賣狗肉這就是典型的掛羊頭賣狗肉因為我把這個標案最後的驗收報告調來看最後的驗收報告講的是什麼他拍了幾隻騙子\n\n20\n00:07:22,401 --> 00:07:41,763\n拍了幾支片子那拍了幾支片子符合什麼?符合這個媒體宣告,名目上是這樣嘛實際上是什麼?實際上是在高雄的衛武營在那邊辦演唱會所以我希望喔,審計長這一次可以說是引發全國人民的怒火\n\n21\n00:07:42,423 --> 00:08:04,429\n也引導大家重新的再去思考我們的預算制度我們的決算制度我們的審計到底有沒有辦法杜絕這樣子的狀況如果沒有辦法杜絕這樣子的狀況的話我不知道我們立法委員這個會期在審預算到底在審什麼東西審了半天又怎麼樣\n\n22\n00:08:05,866 --> 00:08:26,798\n審了半天你跟我說我這筆錢要去推廣勞工政策結果最後花的時候拿去辦演唱會如果我們國家的制度對於這種胡搞瞎搞最後的結論是一切合法謝謝指教我必須要誠懇的跟審計長報告這件事情人民不會接受\n\n23\n00:08:29,522 --> 00:08:57,540\n主要查到沒有依照預算規定或是違反相關法令我們會做檢略的動作會做檢略錢是不是會追回來我們會檢略完以後會依照整個檢調查核的結果來追討希望這次審計部再繳出一張成績單讓臺灣社會看看我們國家公務部門裡面還是有人在負責把關的\n\n24\n00:08:58,922 --> 00:09:24,667\n可以嗎?可以好最後一個問題來請教一下主計長是淨法補償的追加預算什麼時候要送來?這個部分因為我們必須要等到那個明年他是在9月要發放那我們會在之前在下一個會期所以這個會期不會處理?是不會到下個會期才會處理就對了不會是114年度的追加預算OK好謝謝是謝謝好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7093\t34513\t謝謝主席,麻煩請找主計長跟審計長主計長跟審計長委員好兩位好,最近這段時間在審預算也發生了很多的事情我們回去最基礎的教科書告訴我們財政是國家肅政之母\n35529\t49670\t我們建立了預算的制度、會計的制度、決算的制度最後到審計就是希望看好人民的荷包錢不要亂花延續著上一次質詢的主題\n51701\t66247\t我最近陷入了迷惘我陷入了迷惘是說從預算到會計到決算到最後的審計我們有做到這件事嗎我們到底要怎麼做才可以防止政府機關\n68248\t90979\t隨便亂花人民的錢胡搞瞎搞整個制度有沒有辦法追究責任我上次跟主計長報告如果在我們現行的制度之下一切合法對不起啊我很難接受為什麼這樣講我上次講的啊是園民會的主委花145萬出個人成果專刊結果\n94847\t123314\t主計總處說預算經費的使用要符合計畫內容一開始預算書根本沒寫這個東西啊沒寫又怎麼樣我愛花就花我就是要這樣花結果我去調資料才知道從其他的項目隨便撥來給他個人出寫真集這件事情啊審計部你們那個專案的審計做了沒有\n125635\t151593\t結果什麼時候會出來今天會送給委員今天送給我嘛除了這件事情以外接下來還有主要請審計長我可以老實跟審計長講過去這一兩年審計部是少有的政府機關在民間社會得到肯定審計部是少有的政府機關在民間社會得到肯定\n152574\t174903\t我今年在處理監察院的預算的時候你們到時候看我預算提案就知道監察院我是大砍我唯一支持的只有審計部因為你們有在做你們的工作但我必須要跟審計長講的事情是可能你們在做這些工作的時候再認真\n176770\t197257\t還是有你們沒有辦法處理的問題啊因為監督政府機關預算的執行審核財務收支考核財務效能全部都是你們審計部的責任嘛對好來看一下一個分署長的辦公室啊\n198447\t206968\t可以裝潢成這個樣子花145萬啊花145萬啊審計部知不知道這是什麼向下支出的\n208547\t233514\t這一個因為在他的一般行政裡面舊安基金的一般行政裡面我們正在整個在瞭解審計部有在瞭解嗎有出公函給他了需要多久我們原則上一個月裡面把這個事情弄清楚一個月我們沒那麼久啦兩禮拜好不好那我們的會加油啦盡量有照片加油啦錢這樣花喔\n236941\t263115\t錢可以這樣花一個分署長搞成這個樣子我們現在在財務責任上完全不控管是不是更離譜的是我可能要拜託審計長納入你們審計的項目之一我找了半天這到底是什麼標案結果標案的名稱寫得很漂亮叫做新莊本部空間美化整修工程\n264366\t282759\t一般的人看了新莊本部空間美化整修工程會覺得說啊這個是在美化整個勞動分署的辦公空間光看這個標案根本不知道原來在美化的是什麼分署長的辦公室來再請審計長看一下右手邊\n284120\t307014\t這個是最有力標最有力標的評選委員會評選委員會的名單五個人我每一個人的資歷全部看完了以後現在在職的工作都是在北分署要不然在祕書室要不然在訓練科要不然在諮詢服務科如果啊\n308291\t331651\t我機關首長裝潢自己的辦公室用罪有利標搞來評選委員會全部的評選委員五個都是我自己的屬下那你乾脆不要設評選委員會嘛分署長愛挑誰就挑誰啊但政府採購法有規定啊那政府採購法規定的用武如何可以這樣幹嗎審計長\n335498\t348855\t政府採購法有政府採購法的規定我們會了解是不是符合政府採購法好這個一併列入審計的項目當中已經列進去了然後最後一個這個更奇怪\n350390\t362461\t我今天去跟勞動部調的說明今天才回給我他承認兩件事第一個本來的預算根本沒有編這個項目本來的預算沒有編這個項目那本來的預算沒有編這個項目\n366926\t390286\t那奇怪了許民村是花什麼錢去開演唱會結果找了半天是從就業安定基金來那問題是什麼就業安定基金這裡面的名目是什麼名目是媒體宣導的費用媒體宣導的費用大家都會想說是在宣導什麼是在宣導有關於跟就業安定有關係的宣導片嗎\n391383\t416486\t不管是對僱主還是對勞工的宣導片結果這宣導片啊可以包裝成拿來辦演唱會啊審計長你會不會覺得很離譜我們查到我們初步瞭解和委員瞭解的一樣我們也正在整個在喊醒那個整個勞動部我希望審計部在做審計的時候\n418188\t440230\t一定要給全體的公務機關一個清楚的訊息預算立法院審議通過以後不准掛羊頭賣狗肉這就是典型的掛羊頭賣狗肉因為我把這個標案最後的驗收報告調來看最後的驗收報告講的是什麼他拍了幾隻騙子\n442401\t461763\t拍了幾支片子那拍了幾支片子符合什麼?符合這個媒體宣告,名目上是這樣嘛實際上是什麼?實際上是在高雄的衛武營在那邊辦演唱會所以我希望喔,審計長這一次可以說是引發全國人民的怒火\n462423\t484429\t也引導大家重新的再去思考我們的預算制度我們的決算制度我們的審計到底有沒有辦法杜絕這樣子的狀況如果沒有辦法杜絕這樣子的狀況的話我不知道我們立法委員這個會期在審預算到底在審什麼東西審了半天又怎麼樣\n485866\t506798\t審了半天你跟我說我這筆錢要去推廣勞工政策結果最後花的時候拿去辦演唱會如果我們國家的制度對於這種胡搞瞎搞最後的結論是一切合法謝謝指教我必須要誠懇的跟審計長報告這件事情人民不會接受\n509522\t537540\t主要查到沒有依照預算規定或是違反相關法令我們會做檢略的動作會做檢略錢是不是會追回來我們會檢略完以後會依照整個檢調查核的結果來追討希望這次審計部再繳出一張成績單讓臺灣社會看看我們國家公務部門裡面還是有人在負責把關的\n538922\t564667\t可以嗎?可以好最後一個問題來請教一下主計長是淨法補償的追加預算什麼時候要送來?這個部分因為我們必須要等到那個明年他是在9月要發放那我們會在之前在下一個會期所以這個會期不會處理?是不會到下個會期才會處理就對了不會是114年度的追加預算OK好謝謝是謝謝好謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席,麻煩請找主計長跟審計長主計長跟審計長委員好兩位好,最近這段時間在審預算也發生了很多的事情我們回去最基礎的教科書告訴我們財政是國家肅政之母\n我們建立了預算的制度、會計的制度、決算的制度最後到審計就是希望看好人民的荷包錢不要亂花延續著上一次質詢的主題\n我最近陷入了迷惘我陷入了迷惘是說從預算到會計到決算到最後的審計我們有做到這件事嗎我們到底要怎麼做才可以防止政府機關\n隨便亂花人民的錢胡搞瞎搞整個制度有沒有辦法追究責任我上次跟主計長報告如果在我們現行的制度之下一切合法對不起啊我很難接受為什麼這樣講我上次講的啊是園民會的主委花145萬出個人成果專刊結果\n主計總處說預算經費的使用要符合計畫內容一開始預算書根本沒寫這個東西啊沒寫又怎麼樣我愛花就花我就是要這樣花結果我去調資料才知道從其他的項目隨便撥來給他個人出寫真集這件事情啊審計部你們那個專案的審計做了沒有\n結果什麼時候會出來今天會送給委員今天送給我嘛除了這件事情以外接下來還有主要請審計長我可以老實跟審計長講過去這一兩年審計部是少有的政府機關在民間社會得到肯定審計部是少有的政府機關在民間社會得到肯定\n我今年在處理監察院的預算的時候你們到時候看我預算提案就知道監察院我是大砍我唯一支持的只有審計部因為你們有在做你們的工作但我必須要跟審計長講的事情是可能你們在做這些工作的時候再認真\n還是有你們沒有辦法處理的問題啊因為監督政府機關預算的執行審核財務收支考核財務效能全部都是你們審計部的責任嘛對好來看一下一個分署長的辦公室啊\n可以裝潢成這個樣子花145萬啊花145萬啊審計部知不知道這是什麼向下支出的\n這一個因為在他的一般行政裡面舊安基金的一般行政裡面我們正在整個在瞭解審計部有在瞭解嗎有出公函給他了需要多久我們原則上一個月裡面把這個事情弄清楚一個月我們沒那麼久啦兩禮拜好不好那我們的會加油啦盡量有照片加油啦錢這樣花喔\n錢可以這樣花一個分署長搞成這個樣子我們現在在財務責任上完全不控管是不是更離譜的是我可能要拜託審計長納入你們審計的項目之一我找了半天這到底是什麼標案結果標案的名稱寫得很漂亮叫做新莊本部空間美化整修工程\n一般的人看了新莊本部空間美化整修工程會覺得說啊這個是在美化整個勞動分署的辦公空間光看這個標案根本不知道原來在美化的是什麼分署長的辦公室來再請審計長看一下右手邊\n這個是最有力標最有力標的評選委員會評選委員會的名單五個人我每一個人的資歷全部看完了以後現在在職的工作都是在北分署要不然在祕書室要不然在訓練科要不然在諮詢服務科如果啊\n我機關首長裝潢自己的辦公室用罪有利標搞來評選委員會全部的評選委員五個都是我自己的屬下那你乾脆不要設評選委員會嘛分署長愛挑誰就挑誰啊但政府採購法有規定啊那政府採購法規定的用武如何可以這樣幹嗎審計長\n政府採購法有政府採購法的規定我們會了解是不是符合政府採購法好這個一併列入審計的項目當中已經列進去了然後最後一個這個更奇怪\n我今天去跟勞動部調的說明今天才回給我他承認兩件事第一個本來的預算根本沒有編這個項目本來的預算沒有編這個項目那本來的預算沒有編這個項目\n那奇怪了許民村是花什麼錢去開演唱會結果找了半天是從就業安定基金來那問題是什麼就業安定基金這裡面的名目是什麼名目是媒體宣導的費用媒體宣導的費用大家都會想說是在宣導什麼是在宣導有關於跟就業安定有關係的宣導片嗎\n不管是對僱主還是對勞工的宣導片結果這宣導片啊可以包裝成拿來辦演唱會啊審計長你會不會覺得很離譜我們查到我們初步瞭解和委員瞭解的一樣我們也正在整個在喊醒那個整個勞動部我希望審計部在做審計的時候\n一定要給全體的公務機關一個清楚的訊息預算立法院審議通過以後不准掛羊頭賣狗肉這就是典型的掛羊頭賣狗肉因為我把這個標案最後的驗收報告調來看最後的驗收報告講的是什麼他拍了幾隻騙子\n拍了幾支片子那拍了幾支片子符合什麼?符合這個媒體宣告,名目上是這樣嘛實際上是什麼?實際上是在高雄的衛武營在那邊辦演唱會所以我希望喔,審計長這一次可以說是引發全國人民的怒火\n也引導大家重新的再去思考我們的預算制度我們的決算制度我們的審計到底有沒有辦法杜絕這樣子的狀況如果沒有辦法杜絕這樣子的狀況的話我不知道我們立法委員這個會期在審預算到底在審什麼東西審了半天又怎麼樣\n審了半天你跟我說我這筆錢要去推廣勞工政策結果最後花的時候拿去辦演唱會如果我們國家的制度對於這種胡搞瞎搞最後的結論是一切合法謝謝指教我必須要誠懇的跟審計長報告這件事情人民不會接受\n主要查到沒有依照預算規定或是違反相關法令我們會做檢略的動作會做檢略錢是不是會追回來我們會檢略完以後會依照整個檢調查核的結果來追討希望這次審計部再繳出一張成績單讓臺灣社會看看我們國家公務部門裡面還是有人在負責把關的\n可以嗎?可以好最後一個問題來請教一下主計長是淨法補償的追加預算什麼時候要送來?這個部分因為我們必須要等到那個明年他是在9月要發放那我們會在之前在下一個會期所以這個會期不會處理?是不會到下個會期才會處理就對了不會是114年度的追加預算OK好謝謝是謝謝好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.093 --> 00:34.513\n謝謝主席,麻煩請找主計長跟審計長主計長跟審計長委員好兩位好,最近這段時間在審預算也發生了很多的事情我們回去最基礎的教科書告訴我們財政是國家肅政之母\n\n00:35.529 --> 00:49.670\n我們建立了預算的制度、會計的制度、決算的制度最後到審計就是希望看好人民的荷包錢不要亂花延續著上一次質詢的主題\n\n00:51.701 --> 01:06.247\n我最近陷入了迷惘我陷入了迷惘是說從預算到會計到決算到最後的審計我們有做到這件事嗎我們到底要怎麼做才可以防止政府機關\n\n01:08.248 --> 01:30.979\n隨便亂花人民的錢胡搞瞎搞整個制度有沒有辦法追究責任我上次跟主計長報告如果在我們現行的制度之下一切合法對不起啊我很難接受為什麼這樣講我上次講的啊是園民會的主委花145萬出個人成果專刊結果\n\n01:34.847 --> 02:03.314\n主計總處說預算經費的使用要符合計畫內容一開始預算書根本沒寫這個東西啊沒寫又怎麼樣我愛花就花我就是要這樣花結果我去調資料才知道從其他的項目隨便撥來給他個人出寫真集這件事情啊審計部你們那個專案的審計做了沒有\n\n02:05.635 --> 02:31.593\n結果什麼時候會出來今天會送給委員今天送給我嘛除了這件事情以外接下來還有主要請審計長我可以老實跟審計長講過去這一兩年審計部是少有的政府機關在民間社會得到肯定審計部是少有的政府機關在民間社會得到肯定\n\n02:32.574 --> 02:54.903\n我今年在處理監察院的預算的時候你們到時候看我預算提案就知道監察院我是大砍我唯一支持的只有審計部因為你們有在做你們的工作但我必須要跟審計長講的事情是可能你們在做這些工作的時候再認真\n\n02:56.770 --> 03:17.257\n還是有你們沒有辦法處理的問題啊因為監督政府機關預算的執行審核財務收支考核財務效能全部都是你們審計部的責任嘛對好來看一下一個分署長的辦公室啊\n\n03:18.447 --> 03:26.968\n可以裝潢成這個樣子花145萬啊花145萬啊審計部知不知道這是什麼向下支出的\n\n03:28.547 --> 03:53.514\n這一個因為在他的一般行政裡面舊安基金的一般行政裡面我們正在整個在瞭解審計部有在瞭解嗎有出公函給他了需要多久我們原則上一個月裡面把這個事情弄清楚一個月我們沒那麼久啦兩禮拜好不好那我們的會加油啦盡量有照片加油啦錢這樣花喔\n\n03:56.941 --> 04:23.115\n錢可以這樣花一個分署長搞成這個樣子我們現在在財務責任上完全不控管是不是更離譜的是我可能要拜託審計長納入你們審計的項目之一我找了半天這到底是什麼標案結果標案的名稱寫得很漂亮叫做新莊本部空間美化整修工程\n\n04:24.366 --> 04:42.759\n一般的人看了新莊本部空間美化整修工程會覺得說啊這個是在美化整個勞動分署的辦公空間光看這個標案根本不知道原來在美化的是什麼分署長的辦公室來再請審計長看一下右手邊\n\n04:44.120 --> 05:07.014\n這個是最有力標最有力標的評選委員會評選委員會的名單五個人我每一個人的資歷全部看完了以後現在在職的工作都是在北分署要不然在祕書室要不然在訓練科要不然在諮詢服務科如果啊\n\n05:08.291 --> 05:31.651\n我機關首長裝潢自己的辦公室用罪有利標搞來評選委員會全部的評選委員五個都是我自己的屬下那你乾脆不要設評選委員會嘛分署長愛挑誰就挑誰啊但政府採購法有規定啊那政府採購法規定的用武如何可以這樣幹嗎審計長\n\n05:35.498 --> 05:48.855\n政府採購法有政府採購法的規定我們會了解是不是符合政府採購法好這個一併列入審計的項目當中已經列進去了然後最後一個這個更奇怪\n\n05:50.390 --> 06:02.461\n我今天去跟勞動部調的說明今天才回給我他承認兩件事第一個本來的預算根本沒有編這個項目本來的預算沒有編這個項目那本來的預算沒有編這個項目\n\n06:06.926 --> 06:30.286\n那奇怪了許民村是花什麼錢去開演唱會結果找了半天是從就業安定基金來那問題是什麼就業安定基金這裡面的名目是什麼名目是媒體宣導的費用媒體宣導的費用大家都會想說是在宣導什麼是在宣導有關於跟就業安定有關係的宣導片嗎\n\n06:31.383 --> 06:56.486\n不管是對僱主還是對勞工的宣導片結果這宣導片啊可以包裝成拿來辦演唱會啊審計長你會不會覺得很離譜我們查到我們初步瞭解和委員瞭解的一樣我們也正在整個在喊醒那個整個勞動部我希望審計部在做審計的時候\n\n06:58.188 --> 07:20.230\n一定要給全體的公務機關一個清楚的訊息預算立法院審議通過以後不准掛羊頭賣狗肉這就是典型的掛羊頭賣狗肉因為我把這個標案最後的驗收報告調來看最後的驗收報告講的是什麼他拍了幾隻騙子\n\n07:22.401 --> 07:41.763\n拍了幾支片子那拍了幾支片子符合什麼?符合這個媒體宣告,名目上是這樣嘛實際上是什麼?實際上是在高雄的衛武營在那邊辦演唱會所以我希望喔,審計長這一次可以說是引發全國人民的怒火\n\n07:42.423 --> 08:04.429\n也引導大家重新的再去思考我們的預算制度我們的決算制度我們的審計到底有沒有辦法杜絕這樣子的狀況如果沒有辦法杜絕這樣子的狀況的話我不知道我們立法委員這個會期在審預算到底在審什麼東西審了半天又怎麼樣\n\n08:05.866 --> 08:26.798\n審了半天你跟我說我這筆錢要去推廣勞工政策結果最後花的時候拿去辦演唱會如果我們國家的制度對於這種胡搞瞎搞最後的結論是一切合法謝謝指教我必須要誠懇的跟審計長報告這件事情人民不會接受\n\n08:29.522 --> 08:57.540\n主要查到沒有依照預算規定或是違反相關法令我們會做檢略的動作會做檢略錢是不是會追回來我們會檢略完以後會依照整個檢調查核的結果來追討希望這次審計部再繳出一張成績單讓臺灣社會看看我們國家公務部門裡面還是有人在負責把關的\n\n08:58.922 --> 09:24.667\n可以嗎?可以好最後一個問題來請教一下主計長是淨法補償的追加預算什麼時候要送來?這個部分因為我們必須要等到那個明年他是在9月要發放那我們會在之前在下一個會期所以這個會期不會處理?是不會到下個會期才會處理就對了不會是114年度的追加預算OK好謝謝是謝謝好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.093,"end":34.513,"text":"謝謝主席,麻煩請找主計長跟審計長主計長跟審計長委員好兩位好,最近這段時間在審預算也發生了很多的事情我們回去最基礎的教科書告訴我們財政是國家肅政之母"},{"start":35.529,"end":49.67,"text":"我們建立了預算的制度、會計的制度、決算的制度最後到審計就是希望看好人民的荷包錢不要亂花延續著上一次質詢的主題"},{"start":51.701,"end":66.247,"text":"我最近陷入了迷惘我陷入了迷惘是說從預算到會計到決算到最後的審計我們有做到這件事嗎我們到底要怎麼做才可以防止政府機關"},{"start":68.248,"end":90.979,"text":"隨便亂花人民的錢胡搞瞎搞整個制度有沒有辦法追究責任我上次跟主計長報告如果在我們現行的制度之下一切合法對不起啊我很難接受為什麼這樣講我上次講的啊是園民會的主委花145萬出個人成果專刊結果"},{"start":94.847,"end":123.314,"text":"主計總處說預算經費的使用要符合計畫內容一開始預算書根本沒寫這個東西啊沒寫又怎麼樣我愛花就花我就是要這樣花結果我去調資料才知道從其他的項目隨便撥來給他個人出寫真集這件事情啊審計部你們那個專案的審計做了沒有"},{"start":125.635,"end":151.593,"text":"結果什麼時候會出來今天會送給委員今天送給我嘛除了這件事情以外接下來還有主要請審計長我可以老實跟審計長講過去這一兩年審計部是少有的政府機關在民間社會得到肯定審計部是少有的政府機關在民間社會得到肯定"},{"start":152.574,"end":174.903,"text":"我今年在處理監察院的預算的時候你們到時候看我預算提案就知道監察院我是大砍我唯一支持的只有審計部因為你們有在做你們的工作但我必須要跟審計長講的事情是可能你們在做這些工作的時候再認真"},{"start":176.77,"end":197.257,"text":"還是有你們沒有辦法處理的問題啊因為監督政府機關預算的執行審核財務收支考核財務效能全部都是你們審計部的責任嘛對好來看一下一個分署長的辦公室啊"},{"start":198.447,"end":206.968,"text":"可以裝潢成這個樣子花145萬啊花145萬啊審計部知不知道這是什麼向下支出的"},{"start":208.547,"end":233.514,"text":"這一個因為在他的一般行政裡面舊安基金的一般行政裡面我們正在整個在瞭解審計部有在瞭解嗎有出公函給他了需要多久我們原則上一個月裡面把這個事情弄清楚一個月我們沒那麼久啦兩禮拜好不好那我們的會加油啦盡量有照片加油啦錢這樣花喔"},{"start":236.941,"end":263.115,"text":"錢可以這樣花一個分署長搞成這個樣子我們現在在財務責任上完全不控管是不是更離譜的是我可能要拜託審計長納入你們審計的項目之一我找了半天這到底是什麼標案結果標案的名稱寫得很漂亮叫做新莊本部空間美化整修工程"},{"start":264.366,"end":282.759,"text":"一般的人看了新莊本部空間美化整修工程會覺得說啊這個是在美化整個勞動分署的辦公空間光看這個標案根本不知道原來在美化的是什麼分署長的辦公室來再請審計長看一下右手邊"},{"start":284.12,"end":307.014,"text":"這個是最有力標最有力標的評選委員會評選委員會的名單五個人我每一個人的資歷全部看完了以後現在在職的工作都是在北分署要不然在祕書室要不然在訓練科要不然在諮詢服務科如果啊"},{"start":308.291,"end":331.651,"text":"我機關首長裝潢自己的辦公室用罪有利標搞來評選委員會全部的評選委員五個都是我自己的屬下那你乾脆不要設評選委員會嘛分署長愛挑誰就挑誰啊但政府採購法有規定啊那政府採購法規定的用武如何可以這樣幹嗎審計長"},{"start":335.498,"end":348.855,"text":"政府採購法有政府採購法的規定我們會了解是不是符合政府採購法好這個一併列入審計的項目當中已經列進去了然後最後一個這個更奇怪"},{"start":350.39,"end":362.461,"text":"我今天去跟勞動部調的說明今天才回給我他承認兩件事第一個本來的預算根本沒有編這個項目本來的預算沒有編這個項目那本來的預算沒有編這個項目"},{"start":366.926,"end":390.286,"text":"那奇怪了許民村是花什麼錢去開演唱會結果找了半天是從就業安定基金來那問題是什麼就業安定基金這裡面的名目是什麼名目是媒體宣導的費用媒體宣導的費用大家都會想說是在宣導什麼是在宣導有關於跟就業安定有關係的宣導片嗎"},{"start":391.383,"end":416.486,"text":"不管是對僱主還是對勞工的宣導片結果這宣導片啊可以包裝成拿來辦演唱會啊審計長你會不會覺得很離譜我們查到我們初步瞭解和委員瞭解的一樣我們也正在整個在喊醒那個整個勞動部我希望審計部在做審計的時候"},{"start":418.188,"end":440.23,"text":"一定要給全體的公務機關一個清楚的訊息預算立法院審議通過以後不准掛羊頭賣狗肉這就是典型的掛羊頭賣狗肉因為我把這個標案最後的驗收報告調來看最後的驗收報告講的是什麼他拍了幾隻騙子"},{"start":442.401,"end":461.763,"text":"拍了幾支片子那拍了幾支片子符合什麼?符合這個媒體宣告,名目上是這樣嘛實際上是什麼?實際上是在高雄的衛武營在那邊辦演唱會所以我希望喔,審計長這一次可以說是引發全國人民的怒火"},{"start":462.423,"end":484.429,"text":"也引導大家重新的再去思考我們的預算制度我們的決算制度我們的審計到底有沒有辦法杜絕這樣子的狀況如果沒有辦法杜絕這樣子的狀況的話我不知道我們立法委員這個會期在審預算到底在審什麼東西審了半天又怎麼樣"},{"start":485.866,"end":506.798,"text":"審了半天你跟我說我這筆錢要去推廣勞工政策結果最後花的時候拿去辦演唱會如果我們國家的制度對於這種胡搞瞎搞最後的結論是一切合法謝謝指教我必須要誠懇的跟審計長報告這件事情人民不會接受"},{"start":509.522,"end":537.54,"text":"主要查到沒有依照預算規定或是違反相關法令我們會做檢略的動作會做檢略錢是不是會追回來我們會檢略完以後會依照整個檢調查核的結果來追討希望這次審計部再繳出一張成績單讓臺灣社會看看我們國家公務部門裡面還是有人在負責把關的"},{"start":538.922,"end":564.667,"text":"可以嗎?可以好最後一個問題來請教一下主計長是淨法補償的追加預算什麼時候要送來?這個部分因為我們必須要等到那個明年他是在9月要發放那我們會在之前在下一個會期所以這個會期不會處理?是不會到下個會期才會處理就對了不會是114年度的追加預算OK好謝謝是謝謝好謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":937,"blocks":[["黃委員國昌：（11時42分）謝謝主席，麻煩請主計長和審計長。"],["主席：請主計長、審計長。"],["陳主計長淑姿：委員好。"],["陳審計長瑞敏：委員好。"],["黃委員國昌：兩位好，最近這段時間在審預算，也發生了很多的事情，我們回去看最基礎的教科書，告訴我們財政是國家庶政之母，我們建立了預算的制度、會計的制度、決算的制度，最後到審計，就是希望看好人民的荷包，錢不要亂花。延續著上一次質詢的主題，我最近陷入了迷惘，我陷入了迷惘是從預算、到會計、到決算、到最後的審計，我們有做到這件事嗎？我們到底要怎麼做才可以防止政府機關隨便亂花人民的錢、胡搞瞎搞，整個制度有沒有辦法追究責任？我上次跟主計長報告，如果在我們現行的制度之下一切合法，對不起啊！我很難接受。為什麼這樣講？我上次講的是原民會的主委花145萬出個人成果專刊，結果主計總處說預算經費的使用要符合計畫內容，一開始預算書根本沒寫這個東西啊，沒寫又怎麼樣？我愛花就花，我就是要這樣花。結果我去調資料，才知道從其他的項目隨便撥來給他個人出寫真集。對於這件事情，審計部的專案審計做了沒有？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：做了。"],["黃委員國昌：結果什麼時候會出來？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：今天會送給委員。"],["黃委員國昌：今天送給我嘛？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：對。"],["黃委員國昌：除了這件事情以外，另外，我之所以請審計長，我可以老實跟審計長講啦，過去這一、兩年，審計部是少有的政府機關在民間社會得到肯定，我今年在處理監察院預算的時候，你們到時候看我預算提案就知道了，我對監察院是大砍，我唯一支持的只有審計部，因為你們有在做你們的工作。但我必須要跟審計長講的事情是，可能你們在做這些工作的時候再認真，但還是有你們沒有辦法處理的問題，因為監督政府機關預算的執行、審核財務收支、考核財務效能，全部都是你們審計部的責任嘛！"],["陳審計長瑞敏：對。"],["黃委員國昌：好，來看一下。一個分署長的辦公室可以裝潢成這個樣子，花145萬啊，花145萬啊！審計部知不知道這是什麼項下支出的？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：是在就安基金的一般行政裡面，我們正在做整個了解。"],["黃委員國昌：審計部有在了解嗎？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：有，也出公函給它啦！"],["黃委員國昌：需要多久？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：我們原則上1個月裡面把這個事情弄清楚。"],["黃委員國昌：1個月？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：是。"],["黃委員國昌：等不了那麼久啦，兩個禮拜好不好？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：我們儘量……"],["黃委員國昌：加油啦，加油！錢這樣花喔？錢可以這樣花喔？一個分署長搞成這個樣子啊，我們現在在財務責任上完全不控管是不是？更離譜的是，我可能要拜託審計長納入你們審計的項目之一，我找了半天，這到底是什麼標案？結果標案的名稱寫得很漂亮，叫做「新莊本部空間美化整修工程」，一般的人看了「新莊本部空間美化整修工程」會覺得這個是在美化整個勞動分署的辦公空間，光看這個標案根本不知道原來在美化的是分署長的辦公室。再請審計長看一下右手邊，這個是最有利標，最有利標要評選委員會，評選委員會的名單5個人，我每一個人的資歷全部看完了，現在在職的工作都是在北分署，要不然在秘書室，要不然在訓練科，要不然在諮詢服務科。如果機關首長裝潢自己的辦公室用最有利標，搞來評選委員會全部的評選委員5個都是我自己的屬下，那你乾脆不要設評選委員會嘛，分署長愛挑誰就挑誰啊，但政府採購法有規定，不過政府採購法規定的又如何？可以這樣幹嗎？審計長！"],["陳審計長瑞敏：政府採購法有政府採購法的規定，我們會了解是不是符合政府採購法。"],["黃委員國昌：好，這個一併列入審計的項目當中。"],["陳審計長瑞敏：已經列進去了。"],["黃委員國昌：最後一個，這個更奇怪，我今天去跟勞動部要的說明，今天才回給我，它承認兩件事。第一個，本來的預算根本沒有編這個項目，那奇怪了，許銘春是花什麼錢去開演唱會？結果找了半天，是從就業安定基金來。那問題是什麼？就業安定基金這裡面的名目是什麼？名目是媒體宣導的費用，對於媒體宣導的費用，大家都會想說是在宣導什麼？是在宣導有關於跟就業安定有關係的宣導片，不管是對雇主還是對勞工的宣導片，結果這宣導片可以包裝成拿來辦演唱會。審計長，你會不會覺得很離譜？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：我們查到，我們初步的了解和委員了解的一樣，我們也正在函詢勞動部。"],["黃委員國昌：我希望審計部在做審計的時候，一定要給全體的公務機關一個清楚的訊息，預算在立法院審議通過以後，不准掛羊頭賣狗肉，這就是典型的掛羊頭賣狗肉，因為我把這個標案最後的驗收報告調來看，最後的驗收報告講的是什麼？他拍了幾支片子，那拍了幾支片子符合媒體宣導，名目上是這樣，實際上是在高雄的衛武營辦演唱會。所以我希望審計長，這一次可以說是引發全國人民的怒火，也引導大家重新的再去思考，我們的預算制度、我們的決算制度、我們的審計，到底有沒有辦法杜絕這樣子的狀況？如果沒有辦法杜絕這樣子的狀況，我不知道我們立法委員這個會期在審預算到底在審什麼東西？審了半天又怎麼樣？審了半天，你跟我說這筆錢要去推廣勞工政策，結果最後花的時候拿去辦演唱會。如果我們國家的制度對於這種胡搞瞎搞最後的結論是一切合法、謝謝指教，我必須要誠懇的跟審計長報告，這件事情人民不會接受。"],["陳審計長瑞敏：只要查到沒有依照預算規定，或者違反相關法令，我們會做減列的動作。"],["黃委員國昌：會做減列，錢是不是會追回來？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：我們會減列完以後，會依照整個檢調查核的結果來追討。"],["黃委員國昌：希望這次審計部再繳出一張成績單，讓臺灣社會看看，我們國家公務部門裡面還是有人在負責把關的，可以嗎？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：可以。"],["黃委員國昌：好。","最後一個問題請教主計長，禁伐補償的追加預算什麼時候要送來？"],["陳主計長淑姿：這個部分我們必須要等到明年，它是在9月要發放，那我們會在之前就是在下一個會期……"],["黃委員國昌：所以這個會期不會處理？"],["陳主計長淑姿：是，不會。"],["黃委員國昌：到下個會期才會處理就對了？"],["陳主計長淑姿：是，因為是114年度的追加預算。"],["黃委員國昌：OK，謝謝。"],["主席（羅委員明才代）：現在已經12點了，會議繼續進行至詢答完畢。","接著請楊瓊瓔委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":170,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-20-10","speakers":["賴惠員","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","顏寬恒","陳玉珍","王鴻薇","李坤城","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","王世堅","羅明才","黃國昌","楊瓊瓔","陳培瑜","洪孟楷","葉元之","黃珊珊","李彥秀"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-28"],"gazette_id":"11310702","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310702_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿、審計部陳審計長瑞敏率所屬單位主管列席業務報告，並\n備質詢；二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關主計總處暨審計部、審計部臺北市審\n計處、審計部新北市審計處、審計部桃園市審計處、審計部臺中市審計處、審計部臺南市審計\n處、審計部高雄市審計處部分；三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關直轄市及縣市\n政府。調整軍公教人員待遇準備。災害準備金。第二預備金","agenda_id":"11310702_00001"}}}