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00:01:04,974\n因為部長你也當過立法委員所以我相信你對這些事情會比較敏感那我也希望就是說我今天我會拿出三件目前投訴到我這邊來那經過檢視那可能真的是有霸凌的這個狀況的事件那來跟你澄清那希望這三個事件呢我們可以承諾說回去詳加的調查部長可以嗎\n\n5\n00:01:12,537 --> 00:01:24,485\n首先第一個事件其實它是有被立案的在2022年的時候9月到2023年有一位外交替代役他有陳情到我們國和會的帛琉技術團\n\n6\n00:01:28,827 --> 00:01:36,594\n但是最後的調查結果卻說呢這個就是大事化小,小事化無可是我要告訴這個因為當時您還不是國和會的董事長但現在您是了那在這2022年的時候檢舉人就有說\n\n7\n00:01:44,740 --> 00:02:07,820\n這個帛琉技術團的技師讓義男去接觸有毒的臭肚魚那雖然當時國和會說哎呀這個是經過助團的技師同意讓他去體驗但我想問部長的是說我們的技術團安排義男去體驗觸摸有毒的魚這件事情是不是不太合理就簡單回復就好了\n\n8\n00:02:14,068 --> 00:02:32,143\n這個基於他業務上的需要還是說基於是什麼樣的考慮沒有業務需要啊他就是說讓他體驗一下那個技師說呢要我要他跟他朋友就兩個藝男嘛給我用臭度一次一下然後呢這個跟他的組織業務完全不相關啊那\n\n9\n00:02:33,604 --> 00:02:46,828\n福勤技術團的三位藝男裡面就有兩位在拜訪水產養殖的時候被刺傷那他們就很擔心說帛琉的醫療資源不比台灣在台灣可以治癒風險的這些東西啊可是在藝男這邊來說在帛琉可能就比較危險\n\n10\n00:02:50,249 --> 00:02:53,213\n所以他的工作本來就沒有包含體驗臭度於這件事情雖然我們外交部當時的回函給他說並不是蓄意刺傷的\n\n11\n00:03:06,211 --> 00:03:23,971\n為了要保護安全已經告訴這個國和會說請他們調整水產養殖中心的做法不要再安排體驗臭肚魚的特性這個是當時回復之後這給這個相關的回復那所以代表說他不是基於業務啊\n\n12\n00:03:24,952 --> 00:03:28,593\n他後面也講說他要調整不符合嘛對那可是112年12月29日這個國和會的回函他是避重就輕的他只說未來不再讓大家去體驗但他沒有認為說這樣子有霸凌的行為跟情況或許是那時候大家對霸凌的定義還沒有那麼清楚但是現在狀況不一樣了\n\n13\n00:03:50,242 --> 00:04:09,140\n檢舉人說在國和會技術團在沒有證據的情況之下指控義男在技術團裡面隨意變膩忽略農場上犬隻甚多卻惡意做出在社群媒體上集體霸凌公審的情形當時外交部的國和司回覆說\n\n14\n00:04:10,121 --> 00:04:37,388\n經查國和會跟助柏流技術團臉書過去一年的內容並沒有發現特定人員的負面批評或是貼文不是啊因為他是發在他個人的公開臉書上面嘛我這邊全部都有截圖喔來大家可以看一下這個我因為涉及到個資我到時候會交一份給我們部長齁那但是呢比方說這裡他寫剛剛提水桶在沖洗宿舍門的牆壁\n\n15\n00:04:37,808 --> 00:05:04,845\n因為尿騷味隨窗型冷氣抽進宿舍裡昨天某一男在被移送至市區前兩小時我看到他在宿舍附近鬼鬼祟祟而且這幾天都在下雨突然有尿味是誰去尿的也不用多說還有我很不道德我叫了所有人一起去聞那尿味證明不是我鼻子壞掉還躲去農場找工人哭訴哭什麼哭是誰要自己幹這爛事你的心態跟行為有多惡劣大家都知道了\n\n16\n00:05:05,525 --> 00:05:20,711\n這很明確的就是說我們的義男只是經過附近他並沒有實質的證據但是技術團的團長他就在網路上面直接的指稱是我們的替代義男做的事還邀請了他其他的這些同事一起去霸凌人家\n\n17\n00:05:21,411 --> 00:05:42,323\n那這樣的事情結果112年的回覆卻說呢這個沒有公開網路霸凌因為沒有查到你沒有查到但我有查到啊所以呢本來這件事情也就不了了之了但是當事人就看不下去的他們同梯那經過這個勞動部霸凌事件的時候希望本案能夠重啟調查那請問部長我們有沒有機會來做這件事情重啟調查\n\n18\n00:05:49,571 --> 00:05:52,993\n徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯\n\n19\n00:06:08,321 --> 00:06:30,589\n（檢查了國和會網站啊（他們沒有檢查那個技術團的人的臉書啊（他當然就草草回覆（那時候因為大家不是這麼重視霸凌的事件（所以那個替代一男就這樣被壓過去（可是他越想越心有不甘啊（他覺得當時怎麼可以國和會（給他這樣子輕率的回覆（現在大家都很重視職場霸凌事件的時候（是一個能夠重啟調查為一個很重要的時機哦（\n\n20\n00:06:33,310 --> 00:06:57,498\n二、本部也有霸凌的問題。（針對歐洲司某一個長官（我不具體提名稱（因為歐洲司的部門的員工都非常害怕（有非常多的投訴（我整理幾個問題（第一,在內部經常利益良善的大聲溝通（第二,送接機帶路稍有不順就會咆哮同仁（被譽為歐洲司的咆哮地\n\n21\n00:07:02,820 --> 00:07:28,141\n3、在晚間11、2點的時候還在傳訊息交辦任務4、瘋狂開會公文拖延批閱導致同仁全部都要加班等候在外管當外長的時候以咆哮同仁出名而且這件事情是有名到就是其他司的公務同仁都知道所以來向我們陳情的很多人\n\n22\n00:07:28,761 --> 00:07:57,790\n所以外交部是否能夠展開調查並於一週內提供報告我剛剛有問過同仁這個有展開調查有展開調查就很難怪因為那部長這件我要拜託你一下就是說你們開始展開調查之後可能會對於就相關的公務人員造成更大壓力就像是那時候謝怡榮嘛他在被調查的時候他不就把同仁找過來然後說我不遵循你們在對外面講什麼職場霸凌的事情我不允許你們做得到嗎\n\n23\n00:07:58,450 --> 00:08:17,813\n然後大家就很可憐的還說做得到那你們現在調查可能也碰到這樣的情況了具體如何我們私下談因為我不希望這些公務人員被暴露在外面但是呢你們現在既然已經在調查那我理解了為什麼會發生這樣子的情形就是呢突然之間本來想要為自己發聲的人全部都退縮了\n\n24\n00:08:18,514 --> 00:08:39,620\n所以為什麼我要顧忍其名的原因其實是這樣那既然你們知道我在說哪一個案子那希望你可以要求對方不要要求我們公務人員說好像他就不能再提這件事情不然他們擔心被報復被懲處最後那個主席再借我一點時間因為還有一個案子喔那這個是外交部洛杉磯外管組長對僱員性騷擾案件的後續\n\n25\n00:08:42,521 --> 00:09:03,429\n先前就有新聞叫做洛杉磯辦事處的林姓組長對僱員和女性的性騷案因為這個和女的中文並不好所以洛杉磯辦事處他們就說這是語言溝通的落差然後沒有惡意只是溝通的誤解就將性騷案去援過去讓當事人去主動撤告\n\n26\n00:09:03,789 --> 00:09:03,969\n徐巧芯\n\n27\n00:09:18,766 --> 00:09:22,549\n最近也收到關於這個案件重啟調查的陳情指出當時的負責督導人事的林副處長在案發之後為了包庇加害人順利退休堅決不召開性評會並且引誘受害者天價賠償提告其他無辜的同事來塑造受害者有妄想症的假象\n\n28\n00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:57,368\n還多次迫害受害人撤回申訴否則要將受害者辭退命令全體職員不得為受害人作證而且要求大家要一起抹黑這個受害者讓家境清寒而且出生越南華裔的受害者是求助無門的\n\n29\n00:09:58,928 --> 00:10:25,389\n這位林副處長在2022年10月高升檀香山處長而家駭人也在2022年7月成功退休部長我知道這件事情不是在您的任內但是今天既然因為這個霸凌事件勞動部的霸凌事件使得很多過去可能他們就想說算了那我就自己忍吧那他們現在不想忍了他們希望能夠重新找回他們的正義跟公道所以這個案子我也想要請問\n\n30\n00:10:26,149 --> 00:10:36,535\n既然這個被害者他們有進一步的來說出新的施政是否也能夠重啟調查因為卓榮漢院長上禮拜已經說過了要求各部會檢視要求各部會檢視是否有公務人員被霸凌的問題而且要在7天之內就要有調查報告像我上禮拜送的這個馬來西亞的這個駐台處辦事處的這個問題那你們給我回覆了\n\n31\n00:10:55,566 --> 00:11:02,749\n但是我自己覺得還是有點避重就輕我已很擔心又會發生謝宜蓉這樣子的事情為什麼因為你們調查報告裡面很清楚的寫到說那一名長官就是平常是你們寫的方式是說因為他的要求比較高所以呢講話會很容易大聲這一點會請他再多注意可是問題是我覺得大家在公事公辦的時候你用這種吼的\n\n32\n00:11:21,857 --> 00:11:22,117\n所以說﹖\n\n33\n00:11:50,960 --> 00:12:08,506\n這個部分我們也呼籲外交部的同仁要勇於發聲因為像教育部有海科館的霸凌事件他們已經研議修正教育部員工職場霸凌防治與處理要點那從本來兩個月得釋需要延長兩次縮短為一個月\n\n34\n00:12:10,347 --> 00:12:33,755\n那我剛剛去看我們外交部的性騷擾防治申訴調查要點目前規定是申訴事件自接會日期的兩個月結案必要時得延長一個月那但是對於性侵或職場霸凌的急迫性跟時效性其實在世界各地來說呢我們很難一直去關注這些案件是不是我們也可以比照這個教育部去把時限來延長\n\n35\n00:12:35,094 --> 00:12:35,494\n請部長簡短回答因為我有時間的關係\n\n36\n00:13:02,197 --> 00:13:18,055\n有關您提供那個案子因為我們這邊還沒有接到請提供資料我們會展開調查以上三案嘛對不對總共我剛剛提的第一案那第二案我在處理中第二案在處理中\n\n37\n00:13:19,276 --> 00:13:33,888\n第三案是希望重啟調查的部分尤其他還有新市政就是說林姓的副處長現在接下來要去檀香山就任了那他是當時去包庇這個霸凌者的其中一人那這個部分是不是能夠重啟調查應該回來了我們有調整人士最近檀香山的\n\n38\n00:13:41,254 --> 00:13:41,554\n請委員先把資料給我們我們會提供\n\n39\n00:14:02,228 --> 00:14:28,854\n最近的這些事情我想也更喚起大家對於不管是先前是有關於性騷擾或侵害的但現在是霸凌的問題那事實上在今年7月我也有收到委員相關的反應那我們確實就是也有不斷的就是開會包括說暢通保密深處管道有效的苛責還有加強宣導那最近我們也針對這個部分我們也再次的發函尤其是外管這個部分這些\n\n40\n00:14:31,114 --> 00:14:32,795\n徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯\n\n41\n00:14:56,652 --> 00:15:12,696\n但是呢他把那個調查期限你看教育部他的調查期限本來是兩個月然後可以延長兩次他現在縮短成一個月那我們現在還是兩個月嘛所以我們是不是可以結案日期縮短成一個月讓這個事情能夠比較快的出現這個結案那個跟委員報告我們就是一個月內完成\n\n42\n00:15:18,837 --> 00:15:19,158\n徐巧芯\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n130\t371\t林佳龍部長\n10720\t29911\t部長好先跟你說聲謝謝我生日你還送花來但我們今天要討論再次生日快樂謝謝謝謝但我們要討論今天的幾個事情那都是跟這個外交部內部相關的部長因為您前一陣子出訪但我相信你還是很關心台灣的議題\n30811\t47147\t就是有關於這個勞動部有公務員因為霸凌而遭到這個親身的事件那這也引起就是說各部門呢各部會其實都開始有非常多的這個霸凌的事件開始向我們來投訴所以呢\n47788\t64974\t因為部長你也當過立法委員所以我相信你對這些事情會比較敏感那我也希望就是說我今天我會拿出三件目前投訴到我這邊來那經過檢視那可能真的是有霸凌的這個狀況的事件那來跟你澄清那希望這三個事件呢我們可以承諾說回去詳加的調查部長可以嗎\n72537\t84485\t首先第一個事件其實它是有被立案的在2022年的時候9月到2023年有一位外交替代役他有陳情到我們國和會的帛琉技術團\n88827\t96594\t但是最後的調查結果卻說呢這個就是大事化小,小事化無可是我要告訴這個因為當時您還不是國和會的董事長但現在您是了那在這2022年的時候檢舉人就有說\n104740\t127820\t這個帛琉技術團的技師讓義男去接觸有毒的臭肚魚那雖然當時國和會說哎呀這個是經過助團的技師同意讓他去體驗但我想問部長的是說我們的技術團安排義男去體驗觸摸有毒的魚這件事情是不是不太合理就簡單回復就好了\n134068\t152143\t這個基於他業務上的需要還是說基於是什麼樣的考慮沒有業務需要啊他就是說讓他體驗一下那個技師說呢要我要他跟他朋友就兩個藝男嘛給我用臭度一次一下然後呢這個跟他的組織業務完全不相關啊那\n153604\t166828\t福勤技術團的三位藝男裡面就有兩位在拜訪水產養殖的時候被刺傷那他們就很擔心說帛琉的醫療資源不比台灣在台灣可以治癒風險的這些東西啊可是在藝男這邊來說在帛琉可能就比較危險\n170249\t173213\t所以他的工作本來就沒有包含體驗臭度於這件事情雖然我們外交部當時的回函給他說並不是蓄意刺傷的\n186211\t203971\t為了要保護安全已經告訴這個國和會說請他們調整水產養殖中心的做法不要再安排體驗臭肚魚的特性這個是當時回復之後這給這個相關的回復那所以代表說他不是基於業務啊\n204952\t208593\t他後面也講說他要調整不符合嘛對那可是112年12月29日這個國和會的回函他是避重就輕的他只說未來不再讓大家去體驗但他沒有認為說這樣子有霸凌的行為跟情況或許是那時候大家對霸凌的定義還沒有那麼清楚但是現在狀況不一樣了\n230242\t249140\t檢舉人說在國和會技術團在沒有證據的情況之下指控義男在技術團裡面隨意變膩忽略農場上犬隻甚多卻惡意做出在社群媒體上集體霸凌公審的情形當時外交部的國和司回覆說\n250121\t277388\t經查國和會跟助柏流技術團臉書過去一年的內容並沒有發現特定人員的負面批評或是貼文不是啊因為他是發在他個人的公開臉書上面嘛我這邊全部都有截圖喔來大家可以看一下這個我因為涉及到個資我到時候會交一份給我們部長齁那但是呢比方說這裡他寫剛剛提水桶在沖洗宿舍門的牆壁\n277808\t304845\t因為尿騷味隨窗型冷氣抽進宿舍裡昨天某一男在被移送至市區前兩小時我看到他在宿舍附近鬼鬼祟祟而且這幾天都在下雨突然有尿味是誰去尿的也不用多說還有我很不道德我叫了所有人一起去聞那尿味證明不是我鼻子壞掉還躲去農場找工人哭訴哭什麼哭是誰要自己幹這爛事你的心態跟行為有多惡劣大家都知道了\n305525\t320711\t這很明確的就是說我們的義男只是經過附近他並沒有實質的證據但是技術團的團長他就在網路上面直接的指稱是我們的替代義男做的事還邀請了他其他的這些同事一起去霸凌人家\n321411\t342323\t那這樣的事情結果112年的回覆卻說呢這個沒有公開網路霸凌因為沒有查到你沒有查到但我有查到啊所以呢本來這件事情也就不了了之了但是當事人就看不下去的他們同梯那經過這個勞動部霸凌事件的時候希望本案能夠重啟調查那請問部長我們有沒有機會來做這件事情重啟調查\n349571\t352993\t徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯\n368321\t390589\t（檢查了國和會網站啊（他們沒有檢查那個技術團的人的臉書啊（他當然就草草回覆（那時候因為大家不是這麼重視霸凌的事件（所以那個替代一男就這樣被壓過去（可是他越想越心有不甘啊（他覺得當時怎麼可以國和會（給他這樣子輕率的回覆（現在大家都很重視職場霸凌事件的時候（是一個能夠重啟調查為一個很重要的時機哦（\n393310\t417498\t二、本部也有霸凌的問題。（針對歐洲司某一個長官（我不具體提名稱（因為歐洲司的部門的員工都非常害怕（有非常多的投訴（我整理幾個問題（第一,在內部經常利益良善的大聲溝通（第二,送接機帶路稍有不順就會咆哮同仁（被譽為歐洲司的咆哮地\n422820\t448141\t3、在晚間11、2點的時候還在傳訊息交辦任務4、瘋狂開會公文拖延批閱導致同仁全部都要加班等候在外管當外長的時候以咆哮同仁出名而且這件事情是有名到就是其他司的公務同仁都知道所以來向我們陳情的很多人\n448761\t477790\t所以外交部是否能夠展開調查並於一週內提供報告我剛剛有問過同仁這個有展開調查有展開調查就很難怪因為那部長這件我要拜託你一下就是說你們開始展開調查之後可能會對於就相關的公務人員造成更大壓力就像是那時候謝怡榮嘛他在被調查的時候他不就把同仁找過來然後說我不遵循你們在對外面講什麼職場霸凌的事情我不允許你們做得到嗎\n478450\t497813\t然後大家就很可憐的還說做得到那你們現在調查可能也碰到這樣的情況了具體如何我們私下談因為我不希望這些公務人員被暴露在外面但是呢你們現在既然已經在調查那我理解了為什麼會發生這樣子的情形就是呢突然之間本來想要為自己發聲的人全部都退縮了\n498514\t519620\t所以為什麼我要顧忍其名的原因其實是這樣那既然你們知道我在說哪一個案子那希望你可以要求對方不要要求我們公務人員說好像他就不能再提這件事情不然他們擔心被報復被懲處最後那個主席再借我一點時間因為還有一個案子喔那這個是外交部洛杉磯外管組長對僱員性騷擾案件的後續\n522521\t543429\t先前就有新聞叫做洛杉磯辦事處的林姓組長對僱員和女性的性騷案因為這個和女的中文並不好所以洛杉磯辦事處他們就說這是語言溝通的落差然後沒有惡意只是溝通的誤解就將性騷案去援過去讓當事人去主動撤告\n543789\t543969\t徐巧芯\n558766\t562549\t最近也收到關於這個案件重啟調查的陳情指出當時的負責督導人事的林副處長在案發之後為了包庇加害人順利退休堅決不召開性評會並且引誘受害者天價賠償提告其他無辜的同事來塑造受害者有妄想症的假象\n579760\t597368\t還多次迫害受害人撤回申訴否則要將受害者辭退命令全體職員不得為受害人作證而且要求大家要一起抹黑這個受害者讓家境清寒而且出生越南華裔的受害者是求助無門的\n598928\t625389\t這位林副處長在2022年10月高升檀香山處長而家駭人也在2022年7月成功退休部長我知道這件事情不是在您的任內但是今天既然因為這個霸凌事件勞動部的霸凌事件使得很多過去可能他們就想說算了那我就自己忍吧那他們現在不想忍了他們希望能夠重新找回他們的正義跟公道所以這個案子我也想要請問\n626149\t636535\t既然這個被害者他們有進一步的來說出新的施政是否也能夠重啟調查因為卓榮漢院長上禮拜已經說過了要求各部會檢視要求各部會檢視是否有公務人員被霸凌的問題而且要在7天之內就要有調查報告像我上禮拜送的這個馬來西亞的這個駐台處辦事處的這個問題那你們給我回覆了\n655566\t662749\t但是我自己覺得還是有點避重就輕我已很擔心又會發生謝宜蓉這樣子的事情為什麼因為你們調查報告裡面很清楚的寫到說那一名長官就是平常是你們寫的方式是說因為他的要求比較高所以呢講話會很容易大聲這一點會請他再多注意可是問題是我覺得大家在公事公辦的時候你用這種吼的\n681857\t682117\t所以說﹖\n710960\t728506\t這個部分我們也呼籲外交部的同仁要勇於發聲因為像教育部有海科館的霸凌事件他們已經研議修正教育部員工職場霸凌防治與處理要點那從本來兩個月得釋需要延長兩次縮短為一個月\n730347\t753755\t那我剛剛去看我們外交部的性騷擾防治申訴調查要點目前規定是申訴事件自接會日期的兩個月結案必要時得延長一個月那但是對於性侵或職場霸凌的急迫性跟時效性其實在世界各地來說呢我們很難一直去關注這些案件是不是我們也可以比照這個教育部去把時限來延長\n755094\t755494\t請部長簡短回答因為我有時間的關係\n782197\t798055\t有關您提供那個案子因為我們這邊還沒有接到請提供資料我們會展開調查以上三案嘛對不對總共我剛剛提的第一案那第二案我在處理中第二案在處理中\n799276\t813888\t第三案是希望重啟調查的部分尤其他還有新市政就是說林姓的副處長現在接下來要去檀香山就任了那他是當時去包庇這個霸凌者的其中一人那這個部分是不是能夠重啟調查應該回來了我們有調整人士最近檀香山的\n821254\t821554\t請委員先把資料給我們我們會提供\n842228\t868854\t最近的這些事情我想也更喚起大家對於不管是先前是有關於性騷擾或侵害的但現在是霸凌的問題那事實上在今年7月我也有收到委員相關的反應那我們確實就是也有不斷的就是開會包括說暢通保密深處管道有效的苛責還有加強宣導那最近我們也針對這個部分我們也再次的發函尤其是外管這個部分這些\n871114\t872795\t徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯\n896652\t912696\t但是呢他把那個調查期限你看教育部他的調查期限本來是兩個月然後可以延長兩次他現在縮短成一個月那我們現在還是兩個月嘛所以我們是不是可以結案日期縮短成一個月讓這個事情能夠比較快的出現這個結案那個跟委員報告我們就是一個月內完成\n918837\t919158\t徐巧芯\n","txt":"林佳龍部長\n部長好先跟你說聲謝謝我生日你還送花來但我們今天要討論再次生日快樂謝謝謝謝但我們要討論今天的幾個事情那都是跟這個外交部內部相關的部長因為您前一陣子出訪但我相信你還是很關心台灣的議題\n就是有關於這個勞動部有公務員因為霸凌而遭到這個親身的事件那這也引起就是說各部門呢各部會其實都開始有非常多的這個霸凌的事件開始向我們來投訴所以呢\n因為部長你也當過立法委員所以我相信你對這些事情會比較敏感那我也希望就是說我今天我會拿出三件目前投訴到我這邊來那經過檢視那可能真的是有霸凌的這個狀況的事件那來跟你澄清那希望這三個事件呢我們可以承諾說回去詳加的調查部長可以嗎\n首先第一個事件其實它是有被立案的在2022年的時候9月到2023年有一位外交替代役他有陳情到我們國和會的帛琉技術團\n但是最後的調查結果卻說呢這個就是大事化小,小事化無可是我要告訴這個因為當時您還不是國和會的董事長但現在您是了那在這2022年的時候檢舉人就有說\n這個帛琉技術團的技師讓義男去接觸有毒的臭肚魚那雖然當時國和會說哎呀這個是經過助團的技師同意讓他去體驗但我想問部長的是說我們的技術團安排義男去體驗觸摸有毒的魚這件事情是不是不太合理就簡單回復就好了\n這個基於他業務上的需要還是說基於是什麼樣的考慮沒有業務需要啊他就是說讓他體驗一下那個技師說呢要我要他跟他朋友就兩個藝男嘛給我用臭度一次一下然後呢這個跟他的組織業務完全不相關啊那\n福勤技術團的三位藝男裡面就有兩位在拜訪水產養殖的時候被刺傷那他們就很擔心說帛琉的醫療資源不比台灣在台灣可以治癒風險的這些東西啊可是在藝男這邊來說在帛琉可能就比較危險\n所以他的工作本來就沒有包含體驗臭度於這件事情雖然我們外交部當時的回函給他說並不是蓄意刺傷的\n為了要保護安全已經告訴這個國和會說請他們調整水產養殖中心的做法不要再安排體驗臭肚魚的特性這個是當時回復之後這給這個相關的回復那所以代表說他不是基於業務啊\n他後面也講說他要調整不符合嘛對那可是112年12月29日這個國和會的回函他是避重就輕的他只說未來不再讓大家去體驗但他沒有認為說這樣子有霸凌的行為跟情況或許是那時候大家對霸凌的定義還沒有那麼清楚但是現在狀況不一樣了\n檢舉人說在國和會技術團在沒有證據的情況之下指控義男在技術團裡面隨意變膩忽略農場上犬隻甚多卻惡意做出在社群媒體上集體霸凌公審的情形當時外交部的國和司回覆說\n經查國和會跟助柏流技術團臉書過去一年的內容並沒有發現特定人員的負面批評或是貼文不是啊因為他是發在他個人的公開臉書上面嘛我這邊全部都有截圖喔來大家可以看一下這個我因為涉及到個資我到時候會交一份給我們部長齁那但是呢比方說這裡他寫剛剛提水桶在沖洗宿舍門的牆壁\n因為尿騷味隨窗型冷氣抽進宿舍裡昨天某一男在被移送至市區前兩小時我看到他在宿舍附近鬼鬼祟祟而且這幾天都在下雨突然有尿味是誰去尿的也不用多說還有我很不道德我叫了所有人一起去聞那尿味證明不是我鼻子壞掉還躲去農場找工人哭訴哭什麼哭是誰要自己幹這爛事你的心態跟行為有多惡劣大家都知道了\n這很明確的就是說我們的義男只是經過附近他並沒有實質的證據但是技術團的團長他就在網路上面直接的指稱是我們的替代義男做的事還邀請了他其他的這些同事一起去霸凌人家\n那這樣的事情結果112年的回覆卻說呢這個沒有公開網路霸凌因為沒有查到你沒有查到但我有查到啊所以呢本來這件事情也就不了了之了但是當事人就看不下去的他們同梯那經過這個勞動部霸凌事件的時候希望本案能夠重啟調查那請問部長我們有沒有機會來做這件事情重啟調查\n徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯\n（檢查了國和會網站啊（他們沒有檢查那個技術團的人的臉書啊（他當然就草草回覆（那時候因為大家不是這麼重視霸凌的事件（所以那個替代一男就這樣被壓過去（可是他越想越心有不甘啊（他覺得當時怎麼可以國和會（給他這樣子輕率的回覆（現在大家都很重視職場霸凌事件的時候（是一個能夠重啟調查為一個很重要的時機哦（\n二、本部也有霸凌的問題。（針對歐洲司某一個長官（我不具體提名稱（因為歐洲司的部門的員工都非常害怕（有非常多的投訴（我整理幾個問題（第一,在內部經常利益良善的大聲溝通（第二,送接機帶路稍有不順就會咆哮同仁（被譽為歐洲司的咆哮地\n3、在晚間11、2點的時候還在傳訊息交辦任務4、瘋狂開會公文拖延批閱導致同仁全部都要加班等候在外管當外長的時候以咆哮同仁出名而且這件事情是有名到就是其他司的公務同仁都知道所以來向我們陳情的很多人\n所以外交部是否能夠展開調查並於一週內提供報告我剛剛有問過同仁這個有展開調查有展開調查就很難怪因為那部長這件我要拜託你一下就是說你們開始展開調查之後可能會對於就相關的公務人員造成更大壓力就像是那時候謝怡榮嘛他在被調查的時候他不就把同仁找過來然後說我不遵循你們在對外面講什麼職場霸凌的事情我不允許你們做得到嗎\n然後大家就很可憐的還說做得到那你們現在調查可能也碰到這樣的情況了具體如何我們私下談因為我不希望這些公務人員被暴露在外面但是呢你們現在既然已經在調查那我理解了為什麼會發生這樣子的情形就是呢突然之間本來想要為自己發聲的人全部都退縮了\n所以為什麼我要顧忍其名的原因其實是這樣那既然你們知道我在說哪一個案子那希望你可以要求對方不要要求我們公務人員說好像他就不能再提這件事情不然他們擔心被報復被懲處最後那個主席再借我一點時間因為還有一個案子喔那這個是外交部洛杉磯外管組長對僱員性騷擾案件的後續\n先前就有新聞叫做洛杉磯辦事處的林姓組長對僱員和女性的性騷案因為這個和女的中文並不好所以洛杉磯辦事處他們就說這是語言溝通的落差然後沒有惡意只是溝通的誤解就將性騷案去援過去讓當事人去主動撤告\n徐巧芯\n最近也收到關於這個案件重啟調查的陳情指出當時的負責督導人事的林副處長在案發之後為了包庇加害人順利退休堅決不召開性評會並且引誘受害者天價賠償提告其他無辜的同事來塑造受害者有妄想症的假象\n還多次迫害受害人撤回申訴否則要將受害者辭退命令全體職員不得為受害人作證而且要求大家要一起抹黑這個受害者讓家境清寒而且出生越南華裔的受害者是求助無門的\n這位林副處長在2022年10月高升檀香山處長而家駭人也在2022年7月成功退休部長我知道這件事情不是在您的任內但是今天既然因為這個霸凌事件勞動部的霸凌事件使得很多過去可能他們就想說算了那我就自己忍吧那他們現在不想忍了他們希望能夠重新找回他們的正義跟公道所以這個案子我也想要請問\n既然這個被害者他們有進一步的來說出新的施政是否也能夠重啟調查因為卓榮漢院長上禮拜已經說過了要求各部會檢視要求各部會檢視是否有公務人員被霸凌的問題而且要在7天之內就要有調查報告像我上禮拜送的這個馬來西亞的這個駐台處辦事處的這個問題那你們給我回覆了\n但是我自己覺得還是有點避重就輕我已很擔心又會發生謝宜蓉這樣子的事情為什麼因為你們調查報告裡面很清楚的寫到說那一名長官就是平常是你們寫的方式是說因為他的要求比較高所以呢講話會很容易大聲這一點會請他再多注意可是問題是我覺得大家在公事公辦的時候你用這種吼的\n所以說﹖\n這個部分我們也呼籲外交部的同仁要勇於發聲因為像教育部有海科館的霸凌事件他們已經研議修正教育部員工職場霸凌防治與處理要點那從本來兩個月得釋需要延長兩次縮短為一個月\n那我剛剛去看我們外交部的性騷擾防治申訴調查要點目前規定是申訴事件自接會日期的兩個月結案必要時得延長一個月那但是對於性侵或職場霸凌的急迫性跟時效性其實在世界各地來說呢我們很難一直去關注這些案件是不是我們也可以比照這個教育部去把時限來延長\n請部長簡短回答因為我有時間的關係\n有關您提供那個案子因為我們這邊還沒有接到請提供資料我們會展開調查以上三案嘛對不對總共我剛剛提的第一案那第二案我在處理中第二案在處理中\n第三案是希望重啟調查的部分尤其他還有新市政就是說林姓的副處長現在接下來要去檀香山就任了那他是當時去包庇這個霸凌者的其中一人那這個部分是不是能夠重啟調查應該回來了我們有調整人士最近檀香山的\n請委員先把資料給我們我們會提供\n最近的這些事情我想也更喚起大家對於不管是先前是有關於性騷擾或侵害的但現在是霸凌的問題那事實上在今年7月我也有收到委員相關的反應那我們確實就是也有不斷的就是開會包括說暢通保密深處管道有效的苛責還有加強宣導那最近我們也針對這個部分我們也再次的發函尤其是外管這個部分這些\n徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯\n但是呢他把那個調查期限你看教育部他的調查期限本來是兩個月然後可以延長兩次他現在縮短成一個月那我們現在還是兩個月嘛所以我們是不是可以結案日期縮短成一個月讓這個事情能夠比較快的出現這個結案那個跟委員報告我們就是一個月內完成\n徐巧芯\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.130 --> 00:00.371\n林佳龍部長\n\n00:10.720 --> 00:29.911\n部長好先跟你說聲謝謝我生日你還送花來但我們今天要討論再次生日快樂謝謝謝謝但我們要討論今天的幾個事情那都是跟這個外交部內部相關的部長因為您前一陣子出訪但我相信你還是很關心台灣的議題\n\n00:30.811 --> 00:47.147\n就是有關於這個勞動部有公務員因為霸凌而遭到這個親身的事件那這也引起就是說各部門呢各部會其實都開始有非常多的這個霸凌的事件開始向我們來投訴所以呢\n\n00:47.788 --> 01:04.974\n因為部長你也當過立法委員所以我相信你對這些事情會比較敏感那我也希望就是說我今天我會拿出三件目前投訴到我這邊來那經過檢視那可能真的是有霸凌的這個狀況的事件那來跟你澄清那希望這三個事件呢我們可以承諾說回去詳加的調查部長可以嗎\n\n01:12.537 --> 01:24.485\n首先第一個事件其實它是有被立案的在2022年的時候9月到2023年有一位外交替代役他有陳情到我們國和會的帛琉技術團\n\n01:28.827 --> 01:36.594\n但是最後的調查結果卻說呢這個就是大事化小,小事化無可是我要告訴這個因為當時您還不是國和會的董事長但現在您是了那在這2022年的時候檢舉人就有說\n\n01:44.740 --> 02:07.820\n這個帛琉技術團的技師讓義男去接觸有毒的臭肚魚那雖然當時國和會說哎呀這個是經過助團的技師同意讓他去體驗但我想問部長的是說我們的技術團安排義男去體驗觸摸有毒的魚這件事情是不是不太合理就簡單回復就好了\n\n02:14.068 --> 02:32.143\n這個基於他業務上的需要還是說基於是什麼樣的考慮沒有業務需要啊他就是說讓他體驗一下那個技師說呢要我要他跟他朋友就兩個藝男嘛給我用臭度一次一下然後呢這個跟他的組織業務完全不相關啊那\n\n02:33.604 --> 02:46.828\n福勤技術團的三位藝男裡面就有兩位在拜訪水產養殖的時候被刺傷那他們就很擔心說帛琉的醫療資源不比台灣在台灣可以治癒風險的這些東西啊可是在藝男這邊來說在帛琉可能就比較危險\n\n02:50.249 --> 02:53.213\n所以他的工作本來就沒有包含體驗臭度於這件事情雖然我們外交部當時的回函給他說並不是蓄意刺傷的\n\n03:06.211 --> 03:23.971\n為了要保護安全已經告訴這個國和會說請他們調整水產養殖中心的做法不要再安排體驗臭肚魚的特性這個是當時回復之後這給這個相關的回復那所以代表說他不是基於業務啊\n\n03:24.952 --> 03:28.593\n他後面也講說他要調整不符合嘛對那可是112年12月29日這個國和會的回函他是避重就輕的他只說未來不再讓大家去體驗但他沒有認為說這樣子有霸凌的行為跟情況或許是那時候大家對霸凌的定義還沒有那麼清楚但是現在狀況不一樣了\n\n03:50.242 --> 04:09.140\n檢舉人說在國和會技術團在沒有證據的情況之下指控義男在技術團裡面隨意變膩忽略農場上犬隻甚多卻惡意做出在社群媒體上集體霸凌公審的情形當時外交部的國和司回覆說\n\n04:10.121 --> 04:37.388\n經查國和會跟助柏流技術團臉書過去一年的內容並沒有發現特定人員的負面批評或是貼文不是啊因為他是發在他個人的公開臉書上面嘛我這邊全部都有截圖喔來大家可以看一下這個我因為涉及到個資我到時候會交一份給我們部長齁那但是呢比方說這裡他寫剛剛提水桶在沖洗宿舍門的牆壁\n\n04:37.808 --> 05:04.845\n因為尿騷味隨窗型冷氣抽進宿舍裡昨天某一男在被移送至市區前兩小時我看到他在宿舍附近鬼鬼祟祟而且這幾天都在下雨突然有尿味是誰去尿的也不用多說還有我很不道德我叫了所有人一起去聞那尿味證明不是我鼻子壞掉還躲去農場找工人哭訴哭什麼哭是誰要自己幹這爛事你的心態跟行為有多惡劣大家都知道了\n\n05:05.525 --> 05:20.711\n這很明確的就是說我們的義男只是經過附近他並沒有實質的證據但是技術團的團長他就在網路上面直接的指稱是我們的替代義男做的事還邀請了他其他的這些同事一起去霸凌人家\n\n05:21.411 --> 05:42.323\n那這樣的事情結果112年的回覆卻說呢這個沒有公開網路霸凌因為沒有查到你沒有查到但我有查到啊所以呢本來這件事情也就不了了之了但是當事人就看不下去的他們同梯那經過這個勞動部霸凌事件的時候希望本案能夠重啟調查那請問部長我們有沒有機會來做這件事情重啟調查\n\n05:49.571 --> 05:52.993\n徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯\n\n06:08.321 --> 06:30.589\n（檢查了國和會網站啊（他們沒有檢查那個技術團的人的臉書啊（他當然就草草回覆（那時候因為大家不是這麼重視霸凌的事件（所以那個替代一男就這樣被壓過去（可是他越想越心有不甘啊（他覺得當時怎麼可以國和會（給他這樣子輕率的回覆（現在大家都很重視職場霸凌事件的時候（是一個能夠重啟調查為一個很重要的時機哦（\n\n06:33.310 --> 06:57.498\n二、本部也有霸凌的問題。（針對歐洲司某一個長官（我不具體提名稱（因為歐洲司的部門的員工都非常害怕（有非常多的投訴（我整理幾個問題（第一,在內部經常利益良善的大聲溝通（第二,送接機帶路稍有不順就會咆哮同仁（被譽為歐洲司的咆哮地\n\n07:02.820 --> 07:28.141\n3、在晚間11、2點的時候還在傳訊息交辦任務4、瘋狂開會公文拖延批閱導致同仁全部都要加班等候在外管當外長的時候以咆哮同仁出名而且這件事情是有名到就是其他司的公務同仁都知道所以來向我們陳情的很多人\n\n07:28.761 --> 07:57.790\n所以外交部是否能夠展開調查並於一週內提供報告我剛剛有問過同仁這個有展開調查有展開調查就很難怪因為那部長這件我要拜託你一下就是說你們開始展開調查之後可能會對於就相關的公務人員造成更大壓力就像是那時候謝怡榮嘛他在被調查的時候他不就把同仁找過來然後說我不遵循你們在對外面講什麼職場霸凌的事情我不允許你們做得到嗎\n\n07:58.450 --> 08:17.813\n然後大家就很可憐的還說做得到那你們現在調查可能也碰到這樣的情況了具體如何我們私下談因為我不希望這些公務人員被暴露在外面但是呢你們現在既然已經在調查那我理解了為什麼會發生這樣子的情形就是呢突然之間本來想要為自己發聲的人全部都退縮了\n\n08:18.514 --> 08:39.620\n所以為什麼我要顧忍其名的原因其實是這樣那既然你們知道我在說哪一個案子那希望你可以要求對方不要要求我們公務人員說好像他就不能再提這件事情不然他們擔心被報復被懲處最後那個主席再借我一點時間因為還有一個案子喔那這個是外交部洛杉磯外管組長對僱員性騷擾案件的後續\n\n08:42.521 --> 09:03.429\n先前就有新聞叫做洛杉磯辦事處的林姓組長對僱員和女性的性騷案因為這個和女的中文並不好所以洛杉磯辦事處他們就說這是語言溝通的落差然後沒有惡意只是溝通的誤解就將性騷案去援過去讓當事人去主動撤告\n\n09:03.789 --> 09:03.969\n徐巧芯\n\n09:18.766 --> 09:22.549\n最近也收到關於這個案件重啟調查的陳情指出當時的負責督導人事的林副處長在案發之後為了包庇加害人順利退休堅決不召開性評會並且引誘受害者天價賠償提告其他無辜的同事來塑造受害者有妄想症的假象\n\n09:39.760 --> 09:57.368\n還多次迫害受害人撤回申訴否則要將受害者辭退命令全體職員不得為受害人作證而且要求大家要一起抹黑這個受害者讓家境清寒而且出生越南華裔的受害者是求助無門的\n\n09:58.928 --> 10:25.389\n這位林副處長在2022年10月高升檀香山處長而家駭人也在2022年7月成功退休部長我知道這件事情不是在您的任內但是今天既然因為這個霸凌事件勞動部的霸凌事件使得很多過去可能他們就想說算了那我就自己忍吧那他們現在不想忍了他們希望能夠重新找回他們的正義跟公道所以這個案子我也想要請問\n\n10:26.149 --> 10:36.535\n既然這個被害者他們有進一步的來說出新的施政是否也能夠重啟調查因為卓榮漢院長上禮拜已經說過了要求各部會檢視要求各部會檢視是否有公務人員被霸凌的問題而且要在7天之內就要有調查報告像我上禮拜送的這個馬來西亞的這個駐台處辦事處的這個問題那你們給我回覆了\n\n10:55.566 --> 11:02.749\n但是我自己覺得還是有點避重就輕我已很擔心又會發生謝宜蓉這樣子的事情為什麼因為你們調查報告裡面很清楚的寫到說那一名長官就是平常是你們寫的方式是說因為他的要求比較高所以呢講話會很容易大聲這一點會請他再多注意可是問題是我覺得大家在公事公辦的時候你用這種吼的\n\n11:21.857 --> 11:22.117\n所以說﹖\n\n11:50.960 --> 12:08.506\n這個部分我們也呼籲外交部的同仁要勇於發聲因為像教育部有海科館的霸凌事件他們已經研議修正教育部員工職場霸凌防治與處理要點那從本來兩個月得釋需要延長兩次縮短為一個月\n\n12:10.347 --> 12:33.755\n那我剛剛去看我們外交部的性騷擾防治申訴調查要點目前規定是申訴事件自接會日期的兩個月結案必要時得延長一個月那但是對於性侵或職場霸凌的急迫性跟時效性其實在世界各地來說呢我們很難一直去關注這些案件是不是我們也可以比照這個教育部去把時限來延長\n\n12:35.094 --> 12:35.494\n請部長簡短回答因為我有時間的關係\n\n13:02.197 --> 13:18.055\n有關您提供那個案子因為我們這邊還沒有接到請提供資料我們會展開調查以上三案嘛對不對總共我剛剛提的第一案那第二案我在處理中第二案在處理中\n\n13:19.276 --> 13:33.888\n第三案是希望重啟調查的部分尤其他還有新市政就是說林姓的副處長現在接下來要去檀香山就任了那他是當時去包庇這個霸凌者的其中一人那這個部分是不是能夠重啟調查應該回來了我們有調整人士最近檀香山的\n\n13:41.254 --> 13:41.554\n請委員先把資料給我們我們會提供\n\n14:02.228 --> 14:28.854\n最近的這些事情我想也更喚起大家對於不管是先前是有關於性騷擾或侵害的但現在是霸凌的問題那事實上在今年7月我也有收到委員相關的反應那我們確實就是也有不斷的就是開會包括說暢通保密深處管道有效的苛責還有加強宣導那最近我們也針對這個部分我們也再次的發函尤其是外管這個部分這些\n\n14:31.114 --> 14:32.795\n徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯\n\n14:56.652 --> 15:12.696\n但是呢他把那個調查期限你看教育部他的調查期限本來是兩個月然後可以延長兩次他現在縮短成一個月那我們現在還是兩個月嘛所以我們是不是可以結案日期縮短成一個月讓這個事情能夠比較快的出現這個結案那個跟委員報告我們就是一個月內完成\n\n15:18.837 --> 15:19.158\n徐巧芯\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.13,"end":0.371,"text":"林佳龍部長"},{"start":10.72,"end":29.911,"text":"部長好先跟你說聲謝謝我生日你還送花來但我們今天要討論再次生日快樂謝謝謝謝但我們要討論今天的幾個事情那都是跟這個外交部內部相關的部長因為您前一陣子出訪但我相信你還是很關心台灣的議題"},{"start":30.811,"end":47.147,"text":"就是有關於這個勞動部有公務員因為霸凌而遭到這個親身的事件那這也引起就是說各部門呢各部會其實都開始有非常多的這個霸凌的事件開始向我們來投訴所以呢"},{"start":47.788,"end":64.974,"text":"因為部長你也當過立法委員所以我相信你對這些事情會比較敏感那我也希望就是說我今天我會拿出三件目前投訴到我這邊來那經過檢視那可能真的是有霸凌的這個狀況的事件那來跟你澄清那希望這三個事件呢我們可以承諾說回去詳加的調查部長可以嗎"},{"start":72.537,"end":84.485,"text":"首先第一個事件其實它是有被立案的在2022年的時候9月到2023年有一位外交替代役他有陳情到我們國和會的帛琉技術團"},{"start":88.827,"end":96.594,"text":"但是最後的調查結果卻說呢這個就是大事化小,小事化無可是我要告訴這個因為當時您還不是國和會的董事長但現在您是了那在這2022年的時候檢舉人就有說"},{"start":104.74,"end":127.82,"text":"這個帛琉技術團的技師讓義男去接觸有毒的臭肚魚那雖然當時國和會說哎呀這個是經過助團的技師同意讓他去體驗但我想問部長的是說我們的技術團安排義男去體驗觸摸有毒的魚這件事情是不是不太合理就簡單回復就好了"},{"start":134.068,"end":152.143,"text":"這個基於他業務上的需要還是說基於是什麼樣的考慮沒有業務需要啊他就是說讓他體驗一下那個技師說呢要我要他跟他朋友就兩個藝男嘛給我用臭度一次一下然後呢這個跟他的組織業務完全不相關啊那"},{"start":153.604,"end":166.828,"text":"福勤技術團的三位藝男裡面就有兩位在拜訪水產養殖的時候被刺傷那他們就很擔心說帛琉的醫療資源不比台灣在台灣可以治癒風險的這些東西啊可是在藝男這邊來說在帛琉可能就比較危險"},{"start":170.249,"end":173.213,"text":"所以他的工作本來就沒有包含體驗臭度於這件事情雖然我們外交部當時的回函給他說並不是蓄意刺傷的"},{"start":186.211,"end":203.971,"text":"為了要保護安全已經告訴這個國和會說請他們調整水產養殖中心的做法不要再安排體驗臭肚魚的特性這個是當時回復之後這給這個相關的回復那所以代表說他不是基於業務啊"},{"start":204.952,"end":208.593,"text":"他後面也講說他要調整不符合嘛對那可是112年12月29日這個國和會的回函他是避重就輕的他只說未來不再讓大家去體驗但他沒有認為說這樣子有霸凌的行為跟情況或許是那時候大家對霸凌的定義還沒有那麼清楚但是現在狀況不一樣了"},{"start":230.242,"end":249.14,"text":"檢舉人說在國和會技術團在沒有證據的情況之下指控義男在技術團裡面隨意變膩忽略農場上犬隻甚多卻惡意做出在社群媒體上集體霸凌公審的情形當時外交部的國和司回覆說"},{"start":250.121,"end":277.388,"text":"經查國和會跟助柏流技術團臉書過去一年的內容並沒有發現特定人員的負面批評或是貼文不是啊因為他是發在他個人的公開臉書上面嘛我這邊全部都有截圖喔來大家可以看一下這個我因為涉及到個資我到時候會交一份給我們部長齁那但是呢比方說這裡他寫剛剛提水桶在沖洗宿舍門的牆壁"},{"start":277.808,"end":304.845,"text":"因為尿騷味隨窗型冷氣抽進宿舍裡昨天某一男在被移送至市區前兩小時我看到他在宿舍附近鬼鬼祟祟而且這幾天都在下雨突然有尿味是誰去尿的也不用多說還有我很不道德我叫了所有人一起去聞那尿味證明不是我鼻子壞掉還躲去農場找工人哭訴哭什麼哭是誰要自己幹這爛事你的心態跟行為有多惡劣大家都知道了"},{"start":305.525,"end":320.711,"text":"這很明確的就是說我們的義男只是經過附近他並沒有實質的證據但是技術團的團長他就在網路上面直接的指稱是我們的替代義男做的事還邀請了他其他的這些同事一起去霸凌人家"},{"start":321.411,"end":342.323,"text":"那這樣的事情結果112年的回覆卻說呢這個沒有公開網路霸凌因為沒有查到你沒有查到但我有查到啊所以呢本來這件事情也就不了了之了但是當事人就看不下去的他們同梯那經過這個勞動部霸凌事件的時候希望本案能夠重啟調查那請問部長我們有沒有機會來做這件事情重啟調查"},{"start":349.571,"end":352.993,"text":"徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯"},{"start":368.321,"end":390.589,"text":"（檢查了國和會網站啊（他們沒有檢查那個技術團的人的臉書啊（他當然就草草回覆（那時候因為大家不是這麼重視霸凌的事件（所以那個替代一男就這樣被壓過去（可是他越想越心有不甘啊（他覺得當時怎麼可以國和會（給他這樣子輕率的回覆（現在大家都很重視職場霸凌事件的時候（是一個能夠重啟調查為一個很重要的時機哦（"},{"start":393.31,"end":417.498,"text":"二、本部也有霸凌的問題。（針對歐洲司某一個長官（我不具體提名稱（因為歐洲司的部門的員工都非常害怕（有非常多的投訴（我整理幾個問題（第一,在內部經常利益良善的大聲溝通（第二,送接機帶路稍有不順就會咆哮同仁（被譽為歐洲司的咆哮地"},{"start":422.82,"end":448.141,"text":"3、在晚間11、2點的時候還在傳訊息交辦任務4、瘋狂開會公文拖延批閱導致同仁全部都要加班等候在外管當外長的時候以咆哮同仁出名而且這件事情是有名到就是其他司的公務同仁都知道所以來向我們陳情的很多人"},{"start":448.761,"end":477.79,"text":"所以外交部是否能夠展開調查並於一週內提供報告我剛剛有問過同仁這個有展開調查有展開調查就很難怪因為那部長這件我要拜託你一下就是說你們開始展開調查之後可能會對於就相關的公務人員造成更大壓力就像是那時候謝怡榮嘛他在被調查的時候他不就把同仁找過來然後說我不遵循你們在對外面講什麼職場霸凌的事情我不允許你們做得到嗎"},{"start":478.45,"end":497.813,"text":"然後大家就很可憐的還說做得到那你們現在調查可能也碰到這樣的情況了具體如何我們私下談因為我不希望這些公務人員被暴露在外面但是呢你們現在既然已經在調查那我理解了為什麼會發生這樣子的情形就是呢突然之間本來想要為自己發聲的人全部都退縮了"},{"start":498.514,"end":519.62,"text":"所以為什麼我要顧忍其名的原因其實是這樣那既然你們知道我在說哪一個案子那希望你可以要求對方不要要求我們公務人員說好像他就不能再提這件事情不然他們擔心被報復被懲處最後那個主席再借我一點時間因為還有一個案子喔那這個是外交部洛杉磯外管組長對僱員性騷擾案件的後續"},{"start":522.521,"end":543.429,"text":"先前就有新聞叫做洛杉磯辦事處的林姓組長對僱員和女性的性騷案因為這個和女的中文並不好所以洛杉磯辦事處他們就說這是語言溝通的落差然後沒有惡意只是溝通的誤解就將性騷案去援過去讓當事人去主動撤告"},{"start":543.789,"end":543.969,"text":"徐巧芯"},{"start":558.766,"end":562.549,"text":"最近也收到關於這個案件重啟調查的陳情指出當時的負責督導人事的林副處長在案發之後為了包庇加害人順利退休堅決不召開性評會並且引誘受害者天價賠償提告其他無辜的同事來塑造受害者有妄想症的假象"},{"start":579.76,"end":597.368,"text":"還多次迫害受害人撤回申訴否則要將受害者辭退命令全體職員不得為受害人作證而且要求大家要一起抹黑這個受害者讓家境清寒而且出生越南華裔的受害者是求助無門的"},{"start":598.928,"end":625.389,"text":"這位林副處長在2022年10月高升檀香山處長而家駭人也在2022年7月成功退休部長我知道這件事情不是在您的任內但是今天既然因為這個霸凌事件勞動部的霸凌事件使得很多過去可能他們就想說算了那我就自己忍吧那他們現在不想忍了他們希望能夠重新找回他們的正義跟公道所以這個案子我也想要請問"},{"start":626.149,"end":636.535,"text":"既然這個被害者他們有進一步的來說出新的施政是否也能夠重啟調查因為卓榮漢院長上禮拜已經說過了要求各部會檢視要求各部會檢視是否有公務人員被霸凌的問題而且要在7天之內就要有調查報告像我上禮拜送的這個馬來西亞的這個駐台處辦事處的這個問題那你們給我回覆了"},{"start":655.566,"end":662.749,"text":"但是我自己覺得還是有點避重就輕我已很擔心又會發生謝宜蓉這樣子的事情為什麼因為你們調查報告裡面很清楚的寫到說那一名長官就是平常是你們寫的方式是說因為他的要求比較高所以呢講話會很容易大聲這一點會請他再多注意可是問題是我覺得大家在公事公辦的時候你用這種吼的"},{"start":681.857,"end":682.117,"text":"所以說﹖"},{"start":710.96,"end":728.506,"text":"這個部分我們也呼籲外交部的同仁要勇於發聲因為像教育部有海科館的霸凌事件他們已經研議修正教育部員工職場霸凌防治與處理要點那從本來兩個月得釋需要延長兩次縮短為一個月"},{"start":730.347,"end":753.755,"text":"那我剛剛去看我們外交部的性騷擾防治申訴調查要點目前規定是申訴事件自接會日期的兩個月結案必要時得延長一個月那但是對於性侵或職場霸凌的急迫性跟時效性其實在世界各地來說呢我們很難一直去關注這些案件是不是我們也可以比照這個教育部去把時限來延長"},{"start":755.094,"end":755.494,"text":"請部長簡短回答因為我有時間的關係"},{"start":782.197,"end":798.055,"text":"有關您提供那個案子因為我們這邊還沒有接到請提供資料我們會展開調查以上三案嘛對不對總共我剛剛提的第一案那第二案我在處理中第二案在處理中"},{"start":799.276,"end":813.888,"text":"第三案是希望重啟調查的部分尤其他還有新市政就是說林姓的副處長現在接下來要去檀香山就任了那他是當時去包庇這個霸凌者的其中一人那這個部分是不是能夠重啟調查應該回來了我們有調整人士最近檀香山的"},{"start":821.254,"end":821.554,"text":"請委員先把資料給我們我們會提供"},{"start":842.228,"end":868.854,"text":"最近的這些事情我想也更喚起大家對於不管是先前是有關於性騷擾或侵害的但現在是霸凌的問題那事實上在今年7月我也有收到委員相關的反應那我們確實就是也有不斷的就是開會包括說暢通保密深處管道有效的苛責還有加強宣導那最近我們也針對這個部分我們也再次的發函尤其是外管這個部分這些"},{"start":871.114,"end":872.795,"text":"徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯"},{"start":896.652,"end":912.696,"text":"但是呢他把那個調查期限你看教育部他的調查期限本來是兩個月然後可以延長兩次他現在縮短成一個月那我們現在還是兩個月嘛所以我們是不是可以結案日期縮短成一個月讓這個事情能夠比較快的出現這個結案那個跟委員報告我們就是一個月內完成"},{"start":918.837,"end":919.158,"text":"徐巧芯"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":399,"blocks":[["徐委員巧芯：（11時44分）謝謝主席。有請林佳龍部長。"],["主席：請林佳龍部長。"],["林部長佳龍：委員好。"],["徐委員巧芯：部長好。先向你說聲謝謝，本席生日，你還送花。但我們今天要討論……"],["林部長佳龍：再次說聲生日快樂。"],["徐委員巧芯：謝謝。我們今天要討論的幾件事情，都是和外交部內部相關的。部長，因為您前一陣子出訪，但本席相信你還是很關心臺灣的議題，就是有關勞動部有公務員因為霸凌而輕生的事件，這也引發各部會開始有非常多霸凌事件向我們投訴，因為部長也當過立法委員，所以本席相信你對這些事情會比較敏感。本席今天會拿出三件投訴案，經過檢視可能真的有霸凌狀況的事件向你陳情，希望這三個事件，部長可以承諾回去詳加調查。部長，可以嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：好。"],["徐委員巧芯：首先是第一個事件，其實它有被立案，2022年9月到2023年，有一位外交替代役向國合會帛琉技術團陳情，但是最後的調查結果卻是大事化小、小事化無，當時您還不是國合會的董事長，但現在您是。檢舉人說了，2022年的時候，帛琉技術團的技師讓役男去接觸有毒的臭肚魚，雖然當時國合會說這是經過駐團的技師同意，讓他去體驗，但本席想問部長的是，我們的技術團安排役男去體驗觸摸有毒的魚，這件事情是不是不太合理？簡單回復就好了。"],["林部長佳龍：這是基於他業務上的需要，還是基於什麼樣的考慮？"],["徐委員巧芯：不是業務需要，就是讓他體驗一下。那個技師要他和他的朋友讓臭肚魚刺一下，因為有兩個役男，這和他的組織業務完全不相關。技術團的三位役男，就有兩位在拜訪水產養殖的時候被刺傷，他們很擔心，因為帛琉的醫療資源不比臺灣，在臺灣可以治癒，可是對役男來說，在帛琉可能就比較危險，而且他的工作本來就沒有包含體驗臭肚魚這件事情。","雖然外交部當時回函並不是蓄意刺傷，而且為了安全已經告訴國合會，請他們調整水產養殖中心的做法，不要再安排體驗臭肚魚的特性，這是當時的相關回復。這也代表他不是基於業務去做這件事。本席的意思是說，當時……"],["林部長佳龍：對，後面也說要調整。"],["徐委員巧芯：對，不符合嘛！可是112年12月29日國合會的回函避重就輕，它只說未來不再讓大家去體驗，並不認為這樣有霸凌的行為和情況，或許是那時候大家對霸凌的定義還沒有那麼清楚，但是現在狀況不一樣了。再來，那個檢舉人說，國合會技術團在沒有證據的情況之下，指控役男在技術團裡面隨意便溺，卻忽略農場的犬隻甚多，惡意做出在社群媒體集體霸凌、公審的事情。當時外交部國合司回復：經查國合會和駐帛琉技術團臉書過去一年的內容，並沒有發現特定人員的負面批評或是貼文。","因為他是發在個人的臉書上，本席這邊都有截圖，大家可以看一下，因為涉及個資，本席到時候會交一份給部長。比方這裡寫到：「剛剛提水桶在沖洗宿舍門的牆壁，因為尿騷味隨窗型冷氣抽進宿舍裡。昨天某役男在被移送至市區前兩小時，我看到他在宿舍附近鬼鬼祟祟，而且這幾天都在下雨，突然有尿味，是誰去尿的也不用多說。」還有，「我很不道德，我叫了所有人一起去聞那尿味，證明不是我鼻子壞掉。還躲去農場找工人哭訴，哭什麼哭！是誰幹這爛事，你的心態和行為有多惡劣，大家都知道了。」","這很明確，我們的役男只是經過附近，他並沒有實質的證據，但是技術團團長就在網路上直接指稱是替代役男做的，還邀請其他同事一起霸凌。發生這樣的事情，結果112年的回復卻說沒有公開網路霸凌，因為沒有查到。你們沒有查到，但本席有查到啊！本來這件事情不了了之，但是當事人，也就是他們的同梯看不下去，經過勞動部霸凌事件之後，希望本案能夠重啟調查。請問部長，有沒有機會做這件事情？就是重啟調查。"],["林部長佳龍：如果程序上可以的話。但是因為已經有相當的時間，現在人事物等相關情況……"],["徐委員巧芯：沒有啊！當時是誰做這份報告？他當時是怎麼處理的？現在本席手上有具體的資料，為什麼當時……"],["林部長佳龍：如果有新事證，我們當然可以檢討。"],["徐委員巧芯：對啊！有新事證。因為他們當時只檢查國合會的網站，沒有檢查技術團成員的臉書，草草回復。那時候大家不是這麼重視霸凌事件，所以替代役男的事就這樣被壓下，可是他越想越是心有不甘，當時國合會怎麼可以給他這樣輕率的回復？現在大家都很重視職場霸凌事件，這是一個能夠重啟調查的重要時機。","第二個，本部也有霸凌的問題，就是歐洲司某一個長官，本席不具體提名稱，因為歐洲司的部門員工都非常害怕，有非常多投訴案，本席整理了幾個問題。第一，在內部經常立意良善的大聲溝通。第二，送接機帶路稍有不順就會咆哮同仁，被譽為歐洲司的「咆哮帝」。第三，晚間11、12點的時候還在傳訊息交辦任務。第四，瘋狂開會，但公文拖延批閱，導致同仁全部都要加班等候。在外館當外長的時候，以咆哮同仁出名，而且這件事情有名到其他司的同仁都知道，所以很多人來向我們陳情。外交部是否能夠展開調查，並於一週內提供報告？"],["林部長佳龍：我剛剛有問過同仁，這個案子有展開調查。"],["徐委員巧芯：有展開調查？難怪！部長，本席要拜託你一下，你們展開調查之後，可能會對相關的公務人員造成更大的壓力，就像謝宜容被調查的時候，他不是就把同仁找過來說：我不准許你們對外面說什麼職場的事情，我不允許，你們做的到嗎？然後大家就很可憐的說做的到，你們現在在調查，可能也會碰到這樣的情況。具體的狀況如何，我們私下談，因為本席不希望這些公務人員被暴露。","既然現在你們已經在調查，本席就理解為什麼會發生這樣的情形，就是突然之間，本來想要為自己發聲的人，全部都退縮了，這就是為什麼本席要姑隱其名的原因，就是因為這樣。既然你們知道本席在說哪一個案子，希望你可以要求對方，不要要求我們的公務人員不能再提這件事情，不然他們擔心被報復、被懲處。最後，主席再借本席一點時間，因為還有一個案子。","這是外交部洛杉磯外館組長對雇員性騷擾案件的後續，先前就有這個新聞。駐洛杉磯辦事處的林姓組長對雇員何女的性騷案，因為何女的中文並不好，所以洛杉磯辦事處就說這是語言溝通的落差，沒有惡意，只是溝通上的誤解，就將性騷案圓過去，並且讓當事人主動撤告，因為如果不撤的話，這個案件會一直存在。當時#MeToo的風波暫時平息之後，這一位林姓組長調回臺灣順利退休，外交部也沒有進一步調查。","我們最近也收到關於這個案件重啟調查的陳情，指出當時負責督導人事的林副處長，在案發之後為了包庇加害人順利退休，堅決不召開性評會，並且引誘受害者要求天價賠償，提告其他無辜的同事，塑造受害者有妄想症的假象。還多次迫害受害人撤回申訴，否則要將受害者辭退，命令全體職員不得為受害人作證，而且要求大家要一起抹黑這個受害者，讓家境清寒而且出身越南華裔的受害者求助無門。","這一位林副處長在2022年10月高升檀香山處長，而加害人也在2022年7月成功退休。部長，本席知道這件事情不是在您的任內發生，但是因為勞動部的霸凌事件，過去很多受害者原本想說算了，就自己忍吧！但他們現在不想忍了，他們希望能夠重新找回正義和公道。所以針對這個案子，本席也想要請問，既然被害者進一步說出新的事證，是否也能夠重啟調查？因為卓榮泰院長上禮拜已經說過了，要求各部會檢視是否有公務人員被霸凌的問題，而且7天之內就要提出調查報告。","像本席上禮拜送的馬來西亞駐臺辦事處這個問題，你們給本席回復了，但本席覺得還是有點避重就輕，而且本席也很擔心又發生謝宜容這樣的事情。為什麼？因為你們的調查報告裡面很清楚的寫到，那一名長官，你們寫的方式是說，因為他的要求比較高，所以說話很容易大聲，這一點會請他多注意。可是問題是，本席覺得大家在公事公辦的時候，你用怒吼的方式，其實就是某種程度的霸凌，但是你們的調查報告最後並沒有霸凌這兩個字。","針對這個案件的處理，你們絕對要謹慎，不要讓我們的上下屬關係長期扭曲，最後人家受不了了，萬一用最激烈的方式結束生命，我們才回頭來看這件事，那就太讓人遺憾了。不好意思，剛剛說錯，是阿拉伯，不是馬來西亞。","針對這個部分我們也呼籲，外交部的同仁要勇於發聲，像教育部發生海科館的霸凌事件，所以他們已經研議修正教育部員工職場霸凌防治與處理要點，從本來的兩個月（得視需要延長兩次）縮短為一個月。本席剛剛去看外交部的性騷擾防治申訴調查要點，目前的規定是申訴事件自接獲日期的兩個月內結案，必要時得延長一個月，但是因為性侵或職場霸凌的處理有急迫性和時效性，就世界各地的例子來說，我們很難一直去關注這些案件，所以我們是不是也可以比照教育部把時限延長？您懂本席的意思嗎？本席說的比較快，因為時間不太夠。","總之就是教育部已經延長了，包含修正職場霸凌的作業要點，但是外交部還沒有跟上，所以是不是能夠跟上教育部，把這個時限延長？讓受到霸凌的人有比較多的時間思考怎麼處理這件事、怎麼申訴這件事。以上兩個問題是不是可以請部長簡短回答？因為時間的關係。"],["林部長佳龍：有關您提供的案子，因為我們這邊沒有接到，請提供資料，我們會展開調查。"],["徐委員巧芯：好。以上三案嘛！對不對？本席剛才總共提了三案。"],["林部長佳龍：第1案……"],["徐委員巧芯：對，第1案，OK。"],["林部長佳龍：第2案我們已經在處理中。"],["徐委員巧芯：第2案在處理中。第3案是希望重啟調查，尤其是他還有新事證，林姓副處長接下來要去檀香山就任，他是當時包庇霸凌者的其中一人，這個部分是不是能夠重啟調查？"],["林部長佳龍：應該回來啦！我們有調整人事，最近檀香山的……"],["徐委員巧芯：不是嘛！他的職位對本席來說一點都不重要，本席是說這個事件，他當時到底有沒有協助加害者，做出幫助加害者霸凌同仁的事情？這個部分是不是可以重啟調查？"],["林部長佳龍：是不是請委員先把資料給我們？"],["徐委員巧芯：沒有問題，我們會提供。"],["林部長佳龍：因為最近的這些事情，我想也喚起大家的意識，先前是有關性騷擾或侵害，現在是霸凌的問題。事實上在今年7月，我也有收到委員的相關反映，我們確實也有不斷開會，包括暢通保密申訴管道、有效的課責，還有加強宣導，最近我們也針對這個部分再次發函，尤其是對駐外館處的首長。"],["徐委員巧芯：好。最後請你回答本席，霸凌期限延長是不是能夠比照教育部？"],["林部長佳龍：請同仁了解，看程序上如何處理。"],["黃處長麗玲：現在行政院的規定是1加1，就是在一個月內調查完成，有必要的時候再延長一個月，這是行政院最新的指示，現在就是這樣做。"],["徐委員巧芯：OK。但是你看教育部的調查期限本來是二個月，可以延長兩次，現在縮短成一個月，現在還是兩個月嘛？所以我們是不是可以把結案日期縮短成一個月，讓這個事情能夠比較快結案？"],["黃處長麗玲：跟委員報告，我們就是一個月內完成。"],["徐委員巧芯：OK。好。那你們的網站上面的結案日期部分必須要先處理一下。"],["黃處長麗玲：我們已經修正完了。"],["徐委員巧芯：好，謝謝。"],["黃處長麗玲：好，謝謝。"],["林部長佳龍：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝徐巧芯委員，部長請回。","接下來我們請賴士葆委員上台質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":150,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-19","speakers":["林憶君","羅美玲","陳冠廷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