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\"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 73.122, \"end\": 73.343, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 73.343, \"end\": 73.563, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 73.563, \"end\": 73.583, \"score\": 0.37}, {\"word\": \"問\"}]}, {\"start\": 74.944, \"end\": 79.671, \"text\": \"說這個比如說以哈的問題、臺海的問題跟烏克蘭的那個烏俄戰爭的問題那在這個裡面呢我們發現他們是18歲到29歲裡面是在所有的age group裡面對臺海問題最無感\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 74.944, \"end\": 75.144, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 75.144, \"end\": 75.805, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 75.805, \"end\": 75.945, \"score\": 0.813}, {\"word\": \"哈\", \"start\": 75.945, \"end\": 76.106, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 76.106, \"end\": 76.126, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"臺\"}, {\"word\": \"海\", \"start\": 76.126, \"end\": 76.146, \"score\": 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\"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"b\", \"start\": 539.838, \"end\": 539.858, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 540.718, \"end\": 540.738, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 540.738, \"end\": 541.178, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 541.178, \"end\": 541.198, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,009 --> 00:00:03,370\n謝謝主席,有請部長,謝謝。請您部長。部長好。我也好。我還是要講一下,主席,非本委有時候講話的時間好像比本委還要長。所以我剛剛等得有點太久了。我知道主席不好意思,但是他們有些人真的講太久了。\n\n2\n00:00:24,739 --> 00:00:46,230\n我想問一下部長因為今天是預算所以我想還是針對預算的部分第一個就是我之前一直在講的就是說我們在外交的時候我們會去接觸國外的這些議員他們的官員包含他們的智庫但是有一部分其實還是跟他們的人民接觸真的很重要當然僑委會負責了一小部分但外交部其實應該也是主責的單位\n\n3\n00:00:48,951 --> 00:01:13,583\n我最近在看這個NPR的這個出口民調那第一個他們說民主黨這一次年輕選票流失非常多因為其實這一次這個川普的票其實跟上一次差距不大但是這一次這個賀錦麗的票顯然跟這個拜登的是有差距那很明顯他掉的大部分都是年輕人然後裡面呢他在這個那個民調裡面我們可以看到他們有問\n\n4\n00:01:14,944 --> 00:01:19,671\n說這個比如說以哈的問題、臺海的問題跟烏克蘭的那個烏俄戰爭的問題那在這個裡面呢我們發現他們是18歲到29歲裡面是在所有的agegroup裡面對臺海問題最無感\n\n5\n00:01:30,107 --> 00:01:53,007\n然後呢再往下這一個就是我上下兩個圖嘛下面那一個是認為就是說對他自己而言臺海的問題重不重要他們的18到29歲是所有的agegroup裡面最低只有到四成而已也就是說呢他們對這件事情沒有什麼感覺那這不是他們的問題因為畢竟他們關心的是他們自己國家的事務那臺海畢竟對他們有點遠啦\n\n6\n00:01:54,648 --> 00:02:12,289\n我當然還擔心的事情就是跟之前一模一樣就是但是問題是他們會看比如說看TikTok看各式各樣的社群平台那現在中國在這間社群平台的聲音是特別大所以久而久之他們常常會接觸到一個訊息就是就我們自己的研究我們就發現中國很喜歡去講說台海的問題很複雜\n\n7\n00:02:13,590 --> 00:02:16,152\n中東問題一樣都很複雜你這個沒事不要隨便選邊站兩邊的人其實都很有問題大概這一類的話現在變得越來越多年輕人因為常常看這樣的東西所以國外的年輕人會漸漸形成一個氛圍就是那邊的議題不要隨便碰觸\n\n8\n00:02:33,404 --> 00:02:57,743\n這個對我們來講就會有差別因為他不只會反映在他們對政治人物的態度上面也會反映在今天不管是誰在執政我說美國他去選舉所拋出來的政策他要去關心一般民意的想法所以我們現在就是說就是我最後這個問題就是尤其是在美國對他們的年輕族群這個有點像是公眾外交的部分我們現在有什麼比較好的措施\n\n9\n00:02:58,143 --> 00:02:58,163\n韓國瑜\n\n10\n00:03:13,307 --> 00:03:35,223\n對美來講我覺得州政府還有相關的這個更草根的層次我們是會做一個重點那當然除了州的意思對因為這次川普的支持有一些其實是非建制派的不是那種傳統這個保守主義的他來自於很基層的草根\n\n11\n00:03:35,643 --> 00:03:57,879\n所以我們在這個方面要跟他對接那另外當然臺美之間的合作計劃也有這些比較意見領袖的怎麼透過他們再去影響不管是臺美教育倡議還有這個有關於這些像FruitbyScholarship或者是美國青年意見領袖訪問團國際青年精英領袖研習辦這些意見領袖也是很重要因為\n\n12\n00:03:58,559 --> 00:04:21,652\n除了這次選舉比較是內政導向跟他們的一些經濟但是外交我想呈現在一些民調上是也很有意思就是說其實除了參眾院的投票其實單單的這個撥款法案其實台灣、以色列跟這個烏克蘭我們就是得到最多支持所以參眾議員的其實也反映他對於民意只是說很多人對台灣不認識但對中國是認為他是敵意國家\n\n13\n00:04:24,574 --> 00:04:43,133\n可是怎麼樣增加對台灣的認識這個就是我們的空間所以比如說我們現在美國在台灣有24個州都設有經貿辦事處那我就跟我們外交部同仁講我們活動要找他們因為他們反向會回去影響他們的州你們跟台灣的投資貿易的關係所以一定要到subnational\n\n14\n00:04:44,294 --> 00:04:45,295\n現在的社會影響力包括第二代都組織起來\n\n15\n00:05:01,291 --> 00:05:02,951\n對於所謂的認知作戰假訊息對於所謂華人社會透過TITO的影響他們很有危機感\n\n16\n00:05:23,616 --> 00:05:51,526\n台灣他們又覺得我們可以經驗分享我想委員也常常幫我們扮演這個角色所以這個工作也是要進入總和外交去對接從中央到地方行政立法以及各個社會的這個可以說各個領域對我覺得剛剛部長提到很重要的就是subventionpolicy就是說我們現在對各種尤其是又是對他們的年輕人有些時候他們對於中國可能已經認識了但台灣是不夠了解\n\n17\n00:05:52,386 --> 00:06:10,942\n這個雖然是一體兩面但對我們來講很重要尤其是你要去破他們那個講法說這個情勢很複雜中國台灣都各有各的問題所以請不要亂碰觸那他如果不夠了解台灣他就會誤中這個陷阱我們在多年前我們跟日本的關係其實也是日本對中國相對來講有了解而且也認為中國是有一定的敵意\n\n18\n00:06:11,582 --> 00:06:35,644\n但對台灣其實是在那一次大捐款之後越來越多是一般民眾對於台灣的瞭解那雖然我們不可能會有那麼多的事件可以去展現這些善意但畢竟透過一些比較就剛剛提到的總和外交的方式應該可以讓更多的美國公眾尤其是年輕人瞭解我們那剛剛有提到我覺得很重要是NGO啦因為NGO畢竟是一個算是面對的這一個一般民眾的一個算是一個終結點\n\n19\n00:06:37,125 --> 00:07:04,832\n那這個中介點的NGO呢我們除了國內外的這個整合之外我這一次看到就是我們有這一個這個我今天跳過就是我們的NGO領袖論壇那NGO領袖論壇這個目標受眾其實我覺得就很重要因為我們希望NGO能夠第一個當然是我們能夠協助什麼但再來就是NGO他們這邊目標受眾他能不能把我們想要傳達的意思又能夠再帶回去我覺得這個應該是特別重要的事情那因為我們現在也有民主基金會民主基金會跟國內的NGO\n\n20\n00:07:06,152 --> 00:07:08,013\n目前國內外串聯的狀況是不是可以請部長稍微說明一下是除了民主基金會我們NGO其實預算有限但我發現我們有一個窗口跟就是作為資訊\n\n21\n00:07:27,958 --> 00:07:48,196\n那很多的交流我們要找相關業務部會一起做比如說我們現在加入世界衛生組織那種的醫療公衛很多的這個相關的NGO那同樣的這個智庫外交也是或者是說我們在推動經貿外交等那這個部分其實大家對台灣現在是有好感\n\n22\n00:07:48,696 --> 00:07:48,916\n沈伯洋議員\n\n23\n00:08:19,068 --> 00:08:32,996\n他如果能夠也加入到外交學院我們在講的那些東西的話或許也會是一個很大的幫助因為他可以深入理解嘛不然有時候都是比如說見個面可能一個小時半個小時那大家講的話不夠多那就變成說會比較像是形式上的交流\n\n24\n00:08:33,536 --> 00:08:59,858\n另外我跟委員也報告其實我在臺東市長我就想推INGO當時其實外交部也支持可是後來當然接我的市長他沒有要做不然其實INGO臺灣現在因為香港的問題對越來越多成立了臺灣因為這中共這個秘密這個境外資訊操弄還有非常多臺灣多元的文化也好各種的這個這個對接我們怎麼樣透過外交部做一個hub\n\n25\n00:09:00,718 --> 00:09:01,198\n時間到了,謝謝部長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9\t3370\t謝謝主席,有請部長,謝謝。請您部長。部長好。我也好。我還是要講一下,主席,非本委有時候講話的時間好像比本委還要長。所以我剛剛等得有點太久了。我知道主席不好意思,但是他們有些人真的講太久了。\n24739\t46230\t我想問一下部長因為今天是預算所以我想還是針對預算的部分第一個就是我之前一直在講的就是說我們在外交的時候我們會去接觸國外的這些議員他們的官員包含他們的智庫但是有一部分其實還是跟他們的人民接觸真的很重要當然僑委會負責了一小部分但外交部其實應該也是主責的單位\n48951\t73583\t我最近在看這個NPR的這個出口民調那第一個他們說民主黨這一次年輕選票流失非常多因為其實這一次這個川普的票其實跟上一次差距不大但是這一次這個賀錦麗的票顯然跟這個拜登的是有差距那很明顯他掉的大部分都是年輕人然後裡面呢他在這個那個民調裡面我們可以看到他們有問\n74944\t79671\t說這個比如說以哈的問題、臺海的問題跟烏克蘭的那個烏俄戰爭的問題那在這個裡面呢我們發現他們是18歲到29歲裡面是在所有的age group裡面對臺海問題最無感\n90107\t113007\t然後呢再往下這一個就是我上下兩個圖嘛下面那一個是認為就是說對他自己而言臺海的問題重不重要他們的18到29歲是所有的age group裡面最低只有到四成而已也就是說呢他們對這件事情沒有什麼感覺那這不是他們的問題因為畢竟他們關心的是他們自己國家的事務那臺海畢竟對他們有點遠啦\n114648\t132289\t我當然還擔心的事情就是跟之前一模一樣就是但是問題是他們會看比如說看TikTok看各式各樣的社群平台那現在中國在這間社群平台的聲音是特別大所以久而久之他們常常會接觸到一個訊息就是就我們自己的研究我們就發現中國很喜歡去講說台海的問題很複雜\n133590\t136152\t中東問題一樣都很複雜你這個沒事不要隨便選邊站兩邊的人其實都很有問題大概這一類的話現在變得越來越多年輕人因為常常看這樣的東西所以國外的年輕人會漸漸形成一個氛圍就是那邊的議題不要隨便碰觸\n153404\t177743\t這個對我們來講就會有差別因為他不只會反映在他們對政治人物的態度上面也會反映在今天不管是誰在執政我說美國他去選舉所拋出來的政策他要去關心一般民意的想法所以我們現在就是說就是我最後這個問題就是尤其是在美國對他們的年輕族群這個有點像是公眾外交的部分我們現在有什麼比較好的措施\n178143\t178163\t韓國瑜\n193307\t215223\t對美來講我覺得州政府還有相關的這個更草根的層次我們是會做一個重點那當然除了州的意思對因為這次川普的支持有一些其實是非建制派的不是那種傳統這個保守主義的他來自於很基層的草根\n215643\t237879\t所以我們在這個方面要跟他對接那另外當然臺美之間的合作計劃也有這些比較意見領袖的怎麼透過他們再去影響不管是臺美教育倡議還有這個有關於這些像Fruit by Scholarship或者是美國青年意見領袖訪問團國際青年精英領袖研習辦這些意見領袖也是很重要因為\n238559\t261652\t除了這次選舉比較是內政導向跟他們的一些經濟但是外交我想呈現在一些民調上是也很有意思就是說其實除了參眾院的投票其實單單的這個撥款法案其實台灣、以色列跟這個烏克蘭我們就是得到最多支持所以參眾議員的其實也反映他對於民意只是說很多人對台灣不認識但對中國是認為他是敵意國家\n264574\t283133\t可是怎麼樣增加對台灣的認識這個就是我們的空間所以比如說我們現在美國在台灣有24個州都設有經貿辦事處那我就跟我們外交部同仁講我們活動要找他們因為他們反向會回去影響他們的州你們跟台灣的投資貿易的關係所以一定要到subnational\n284294\t285295\t現在的社會影響力包括第二代都組織起來\n301291\t302951\t對於所謂的認知作戰假訊息對於所謂華人社會透過TITO的影響他們很有危機感\n323616\t351526\t台灣他們又覺得我們可以經驗分享我想委員也常常幫我們扮演這個角色所以這個工作也是要進入總和外交去對接從中央到地方行政立法以及各個社會的這個可以說各個領域對我覺得剛剛部長提到很重要的就是subvention policy就是說我們現在對各種尤其是又是對他們的年輕人有些時候他們對於中國可能已經認識了但台灣是不夠了解\n352386\t370942\t這個雖然是一體兩面但對我們來講很重要尤其是你要去破他們那個講法說這個情勢很複雜中國台灣都各有各的問題所以請不要亂碰觸那他如果不夠了解台灣他就會誤中這個陷阱我們在多年前我們跟日本的關係其實也是日本對中國相對來講有了解而且也認為中國是有一定的敵意\n371582\t395644\t但對台灣其實是在那一次大捐款之後越來越多是一般民眾對於台灣的瞭解那雖然我們不可能會有那麼多的事件可以去展現這些善意但畢竟透過一些比較就剛剛提到的總和外交的方式應該可以讓更多的美國公眾尤其是年輕人瞭解我們那剛剛有提到我覺得很重要是NGO啦因為NGO畢竟是一個算是面對的這一個一般民眾的一個算是一個終結點\n397125\t424832\t那這個中介點的NGO呢我們除了國內外的這個整合之外我這一次看到就是我們有這一個這個我今天跳過就是我們的NGO領袖論壇那NGO領袖論壇這個目標受眾其實我覺得就很重要因為我們希望NGO能夠第一個當然是我們能夠協助什麼但再來就是NGO他們這邊目標受眾他能不能把我們想要傳達的意思又能夠再帶回去我覺得這個應該是特別重要的事情那因為我們現在也有民主基金會民主基金會跟國內的NGO\n426152\t428013\t目前國內外串聯的狀況 是不是可以請部長稍微說明一下是 除了民主基金會我們NGO其實預算有限但我發現我們有一個窗口跟就是作為資訊\n447958\t468196\t那很多的交流我們要找相關業務部會一起做比如說我們現在加入世界衛生組織那種的醫療公衛很多的這個相關的NGO那同樣的這個智庫外交也是或者是說我們在推動經貿外交等那這個部分其實大家對台灣現在是有好感\n468696\t468916\t沈伯洋議員\n499068\t512996\t他如果能夠也加入到外交學院我們在講的那些東西的話或許也會是一個很大的幫助因為他可以深入理解嘛不然有時候都是比如說見個面可能一個小時半個小時那大家講的話不夠多那就變成說會比較像是形式上的交流\n513536\t539858\t另外我跟委員也報告其實我在臺東市長我就想推INGO當時其實外交部也支持可是後來當然接我的市長他沒有要做不然其實INGO臺灣現在因為香港的問題對越來越多成立了臺灣因為這中共這個秘密這個境外資訊操弄還有非常多臺灣多元的文化也好各種的這個這個對接我們怎麼樣透過外交部做一個hub\n540718\t541198\t時間到了,謝謝部長\n","txt":"謝謝主席,有請部長,謝謝。請您部長。部長好。我也好。我還是要講一下,主席,非本委有時候講話的時間好像比本委還要長。所以我剛剛等得有點太久了。我知道主席不好意思,但是他們有些人真的講太久了。\n我想問一下部長因為今天是預算所以我想還是針對預算的部分第一個就是我之前一直在講的就是說我們在外交的時候我們會去接觸國外的這些議員他們的官員包含他們的智庫但是有一部分其實還是跟他們的人民接觸真的很重要當然僑委會負責了一小部分但外交部其實應該也是主責的單位\n我最近在看這個NPR的這個出口民調那第一個他們說民主黨這一次年輕選票流失非常多因為其實這一次這個川普的票其實跟上一次差距不大但是這一次這個賀錦麗的票顯然跟這個拜登的是有差距那很明顯他掉的大部分都是年輕人然後裡面呢他在這個那個民調裡面我們可以看到他們有問\n說這個比如說以哈的問題、臺海的問題跟烏克蘭的那個烏俄戰爭的問題那在這個裡面呢我們發現他們是18歲到29歲裡面是在所有的age group裡面對臺海問題最無感\n然後呢再往下這一個就是我上下兩個圖嘛下面那一個是認為就是說對他自己而言臺海的問題重不重要他們的18到29歲是所有的age group裡面最低只有到四成而已也就是說呢他們對這件事情沒有什麼感覺那這不是他們的問題因為畢竟他們關心的是他們自己國家的事務那臺海畢竟對他們有點遠啦\n我當然還擔心的事情就是跟之前一模一樣就是但是問題是他們會看比如說看TikTok看各式各樣的社群平台那現在中國在這間社群平台的聲音是特別大所以久而久之他們常常會接觸到一個訊息就是就我們自己的研究我們就發現中國很喜歡去講說台海的問題很複雜\n中東問題一樣都很複雜你這個沒事不要隨便選邊站兩邊的人其實都很有問題大概這一類的話現在變得越來越多年輕人因為常常看這樣的東西所以國外的年輕人會漸漸形成一個氛圍就是那邊的議題不要隨便碰觸\n這個對我們來講就會有差別因為他不只會反映在他們對政治人物的態度上面也會反映在今天不管是誰在執政我說美國他去選舉所拋出來的政策他要去關心一般民意的想法所以我們現在就是說就是我最後這個問題就是尤其是在美國對他們的年輕族群這個有點像是公眾外交的部分我們現在有什麼比較好的措施\n韓國瑜\n對美來講我覺得州政府還有相關的這個更草根的層次我們是會做一個重點那當然除了州的意思對因為這次川普的支持有一些其實是非建制派的不是那種傳統這個保守主義的他來自於很基層的草根\n所以我們在這個方面要跟他對接那另外當然臺美之間的合作計劃也有這些比較意見領袖的怎麼透過他們再去影響不管是臺美教育倡議還有這個有關於這些像Fruit by Scholarship或者是美國青年意見領袖訪問團國際青年精英領袖研習辦這些意見領袖也是很重要因為\n除了這次選舉比較是內政導向跟他們的一些經濟但是外交我想呈現在一些民調上是也很有意思就是說其實除了參眾院的投票其實單單的這個撥款法案其實台灣、以色列跟這個烏克蘭我們就是得到最多支持所以參眾議員的其實也反映他對於民意只是說很多人對台灣不認識但對中國是認為他是敵意國家\n可是怎麼樣增加對台灣的認識這個就是我們的空間所以比如說我們現在美國在台灣有24個州都設有經貿辦事處那我就跟我們外交部同仁講我們活動要找他們因為他們反向會回去影響他們的州你們跟台灣的投資貿易的關係所以一定要到subnational\n現在的社會影響力包括第二代都組織起來\n對於所謂的認知作戰假訊息對於所謂華人社會透過TITO的影響他們很有危機感\n台灣他們又覺得我們可以經驗分享我想委員也常常幫我們扮演這個角色所以這個工作也是要進入總和外交去對接從中央到地方行政立法以及各個社會的這個可以說各個領域對我覺得剛剛部長提到很重要的就是subvention policy就是說我們現在對各種尤其是又是對他們的年輕人有些時候他們對於中國可能已經認識了但台灣是不夠了解\n這個雖然是一體兩面但對我們來講很重要尤其是你要去破他們那個講法說這個情勢很複雜中國台灣都各有各的問題所以請不要亂碰觸那他如果不夠了解台灣他就會誤中這個陷阱我們在多年前我們跟日本的關係其實也是日本對中國相對來講有了解而且也認為中國是有一定的敵意\n但對台灣其實是在那一次大捐款之後越來越多是一般民眾對於台灣的瞭解那雖然我們不可能會有那麼多的事件可以去展現這些善意但畢竟透過一些比較就剛剛提到的總和外交的方式應該可以讓更多的美國公眾尤其是年輕人瞭解我們那剛剛有提到我覺得很重要是NGO啦因為NGO畢竟是一個算是面對的這一個一般民眾的一個算是一個終結點\n那這個中介點的NGO呢我們除了國內外的這個整合之外我這一次看到就是我們有這一個這個我今天跳過就是我們的NGO領袖論壇那NGO領袖論壇這個目標受眾其實我覺得就很重要因為我們希望NGO能夠第一個當然是我們能夠協助什麼但再來就是NGO他們這邊目標受眾他能不能把我們想要傳達的意思又能夠再帶回去我覺得這個應該是特別重要的事情那因為我們現在也有民主基金會民主基金會跟國內的NGO\n目前國內外串聯的狀況 是不是可以請部長稍微說明一下是 除了民主基金會我們NGO其實預算有限但我發現我們有一個窗口跟就是作為資訊\n那很多的交流我們要找相關業務部會一起做比如說我們現在加入世界衛生組織那種的醫療公衛很多的這個相關的NGO那同樣的這個智庫外交也是或者是說我們在推動經貿外交等那這個部分其實大家對台灣現在是有好感\n沈伯洋議員\n他如果能夠也加入到外交學院我們在講的那些東西的話或許也會是一個很大的幫助因為他可以深入理解嘛不然有時候都是比如說見個面可能一個小時半個小時那大家講的話不夠多那就變成說會比較像是形式上的交流\n另外我跟委員也報告其實我在臺東市長我就想推INGO當時其實外交部也支持可是後來當然接我的市長他沒有要做不然其實INGO臺灣現在因為香港的問題對越來越多成立了臺灣因為這中共這個秘密這個境外資訊操弄還有非常多臺灣多元的文化也好各種的這個這個對接我們怎麼樣透過外交部做一個hub\n時間到了,謝謝部長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.009 --> 00:03.370\n謝謝主席,有請部長,謝謝。請您部長。部長好。我也好。我還是要講一下,主席,非本委有時候講話的時間好像比本委還要長。所以我剛剛等得有點太久了。我知道主席不好意思,但是他們有些人真的講太久了。\n\n00:24.739 --> 00:46.230\n我想問一下部長因為今天是預算所以我想還是針對預算的部分第一個就是我之前一直在講的就是說我們在外交的時候我們會去接觸國外的這些議員他們的官員包含他們的智庫但是有一部分其實還是跟他們的人民接觸真的很重要當然僑委會負責了一小部分但外交部其實應該也是主責的單位\n\n00:48.951 --> 01:13.583\n我最近在看這個NPR的這個出口民調那第一個他們說民主黨這一次年輕選票流失非常多因為其實這一次這個川普的票其實跟上一次差距不大但是這一次這個賀錦麗的票顯然跟這個拜登的是有差距那很明顯他掉的大部分都是年輕人然後裡面呢他在這個那個民調裡面我們可以看到他們有問\n\n01:14.944 --> 01:19.671\n說這個比如說以哈的問題、臺海的問題跟烏克蘭的那個烏俄戰爭的問題那在這個裡面呢我們發現他們是18歲到29歲裡面是在所有的agegroup裡面對臺海問題最無感\n\n01:30.107 --> 01:53.007\n然後呢再往下這一個就是我上下兩個圖嘛下面那一個是認為就是說對他自己而言臺海的問題重不重要他們的18到29歲是所有的agegroup裡面最低只有到四成而已也就是說呢他們對這件事情沒有什麼感覺那這不是他們的問題因為畢竟他們關心的是他們自己國家的事務那臺海畢竟對他們有點遠啦\n\n01:54.648 --> 02:12.289\n我當然還擔心的事情就是跟之前一模一樣就是但是問題是他們會看比如說看TikTok看各式各樣的社群平台那現在中國在這間社群平台的聲音是特別大所以久而久之他們常常會接觸到一個訊息就是就我們自己的研究我們就發現中國很喜歡去講說台海的問題很複雜\n\n02:13.590 --> 02:16.152\n中東問題一樣都很複雜你這個沒事不要隨便選邊站兩邊的人其實都很有問題大概這一類的話現在變得越來越多年輕人因為常常看這樣的東西所以國外的年輕人會漸漸形成一個氛圍就是那邊的議題不要隨便碰觸\n\n02:33.404 --> 02:57.743\n這個對我們來講就會有差別因為他不只會反映在他們對政治人物的態度上面也會反映在今天不管是誰在執政我說美國他去選舉所拋出來的政策他要去關心一般民意的想法所以我們現在就是說就是我最後這個問題就是尤其是在美國對他們的年輕族群這個有點像是公眾外交的部分我們現在有什麼比較好的措施\n\n02:58.143 --> 02:58.163\n韓國瑜\n\n03:13.307 --> 03:35.223\n對美來講我覺得州政府還有相關的這個更草根的層次我們是會做一個重點那當然除了州的意思對因為這次川普的支持有一些其實是非建制派的不是那種傳統這個保守主義的他來自於很基層的草根\n\n03:35.643 --> 03:57.879\n所以我們在這個方面要跟他對接那另外當然臺美之間的合作計劃也有這些比較意見領袖的怎麼透過他們再去影響不管是臺美教育倡議還有這個有關於這些像FruitbyScholarship或者是美國青年意見領袖訪問團國際青年精英領袖研習辦這些意見領袖也是很重要因為\n\n03:58.559 --> 04:21.652\n除了這次選舉比較是內政導向跟他們的一些經濟但是外交我想呈現在一些民調上是也很有意思就是說其實除了參眾院的投票其實單單的這個撥款法案其實台灣、以色列跟這個烏克蘭我們就是得到最多支持所以參眾議員的其實也反映他對於民意只是說很多人對台灣不認識但對中國是認為他是敵意國家\n\n04:24.574 --> 04:43.133\n可是怎麼樣增加對台灣的認識這個就是我們的空間所以比如說我們現在美國在台灣有24個州都設有經貿辦事處那我就跟我們外交部同仁講我們活動要找他們因為他們反向會回去影響他們的州你們跟台灣的投資貿易的關係所以一定要到subnational\n\n04:44.294 --> 04:45.295\n現在的社會影響力包括第二代都組織起來\n\n05:01.291 --> 05:02.951\n對於所謂的認知作戰假訊息對於所謂華人社會透過TITO的影響他們很有危機感\n\n05:23.616 --> 05:51.526\n台灣他們又覺得我們可以經驗分享我想委員也常常幫我們扮演這個角色所以這個工作也是要進入總和外交去對接從中央到地方行政立法以及各個社會的這個可以說各個領域對我覺得剛剛部長提到很重要的就是subventionpolicy就是說我們現在對各種尤其是又是對他們的年輕人有些時候他們對於中國可能已經認識了但台灣是不夠了解\n\n05:52.386 --> 06:10.942\n這個雖然是一體兩面但對我們來講很重要尤其是你要去破他們那個講法說這個情勢很複雜中國台灣都各有各的問題所以請不要亂碰觸那他如果不夠了解台灣他就會誤中這個陷阱我們在多年前我們跟日本的關係其實也是日本對中國相對來講有了解而且也認為中國是有一定的敵意\n\n06:11.582 --> 06:35.644\n但對台灣其實是在那一次大捐款之後越來越多是一般民眾對於台灣的瞭解那雖然我們不可能會有那麼多的事件可以去展現這些善意但畢竟透過一些比較就剛剛提到的總和外交的方式應該可以讓更多的美國公眾尤其是年輕人瞭解我們那剛剛有提到我覺得很重要是NGO啦因為NGO畢竟是一個算是面對的這一個一般民眾的一個算是一個終結點\n\n06:37.125 --> 07:04.832\n那這個中介點的NGO呢我們除了國內外的這個整合之外我這一次看到就是我們有這一個這個我今天跳過就是我們的NGO領袖論壇那NGO領袖論壇這個目標受眾其實我覺得就很重要因為我們希望NGO能夠第一個當然是我們能夠協助什麼但再來就是NGO他們這邊目標受眾他能不能把我們想要傳達的意思又能夠再帶回去我覺得這個應該是特別重要的事情那因為我們現在也有民主基金會民主基金會跟國內的NGO\n\n07:06.152 --> 07:08.013\n目前國內外串聯的狀況是不是可以請部長稍微說明一下是除了民主基金會我們NGO其實預算有限但我發現我們有一個窗口跟就是作為資訊\n\n07:27.958 --> 07:48.196\n那很多的交流我們要找相關業務部會一起做比如說我們現在加入世界衛生組織那種的醫療公衛很多的這個相關的NGO那同樣的這個智庫外交也是或者是說我們在推動經貿外交等那這個部分其實大家對台灣現在是有好感\n\n07:48.696 --> 07:48.916\n沈伯洋議員\n\n08:19.068 --> 08:32.996\n他如果能夠也加入到外交學院我們在講的那些東西的話或許也會是一個很大的幫助因為他可以深入理解嘛不然有時候都是比如說見個面可能一個小時半個小時那大家講的話不夠多那就變成說會比較像是形式上的交流\n\n08:33.536 --> 08:59.858\n另外我跟委員也報告其實我在臺東市長我就想推INGO當時其實外交部也支持可是後來當然接我的市長他沒有要做不然其實INGO臺灣現在因為香港的問題對越來越多成立了臺灣因為這中共這個秘密這個境外資訊操弄還有非常多臺灣多元的文化也好各種的這個這個對接我們怎麼樣透過外交部做一個hub\n\n09:00.718 --> 09:01.198\n時間到了,謝謝部長\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.009,"end":3.37,"text":"謝謝主席,有請部長,謝謝。請您部長。部長好。我也好。我還是要講一下,主席,非本委有時候講話的時間好像比本委還要長。所以我剛剛等得有點太久了。我知道主席不好意思,但是他們有些人真的講太久了。"},{"start":24.739,"end":46.23,"text":"我想問一下部長因為今天是預算所以我想還是針對預算的部分第一個就是我之前一直在講的就是說我們在外交的時候我們會去接觸國外的這些議員他們的官員包含他們的智庫但是有一部分其實還是跟他們的人民接觸真的很重要當然僑委會負責了一小部分但外交部其實應該也是主責的單位"},{"start":48.951,"end":73.583,"text":"我最近在看這個NPR的這個出口民調那第一個他們說民主黨這一次年輕選票流失非常多因為其實這一次這個川普的票其實跟上一次差距不大但是這一次這個賀錦麗的票顯然跟這個拜登的是有差距那很明顯他掉的大部分都是年輕人然後裡面呢他在這個那個民調裡面我們可以看到他們有問"},{"start":74.944,"end":79.671,"text":"說這個比如說以哈的問題、臺海的問題跟烏克蘭的那個烏俄戰爭的問題那在這個裡面呢我們發現他們是18歲到29歲裡面是在所有的age group裡面對臺海問題最無感"},{"start":90.107,"end":113.007,"text":"然後呢再往下這一個就是我上下兩個圖嘛下面那一個是認為就是說對他自己而言臺海的問題重不重要他們的18到29歲是所有的age group裡面最低只有到四成而已也就是說呢他們對這件事情沒有什麼感覺那這不是他們的問題因為畢竟他們關心的是他們自己國家的事務那臺海畢竟對他們有點遠啦"},{"start":114.648,"end":132.289,"text":"我當然還擔心的事情就是跟之前一模一樣就是但是問題是他們會看比如說看TikTok看各式各樣的社群平台那現在中國在這間社群平台的聲音是特別大所以久而久之他們常常會接觸到一個訊息就是就我們自己的研究我們就發現中國很喜歡去講說台海的問題很複雜"},{"start":133.59,"end":136.152,"text":"中東問題一樣都很複雜你這個沒事不要隨便選邊站兩邊的人其實都很有問題大概這一類的話現在變得越來越多年輕人因為常常看這樣的東西所以國外的年輕人會漸漸形成一個氛圍就是那邊的議題不要隨便碰觸"},{"start":153.404,"end":177.743,"text":"這個對我們來講就會有差別因為他不只會反映在他們對政治人物的態度上面也會反映在今天不管是誰在執政我說美國他去選舉所拋出來的政策他要去關心一般民意的想法所以我們現在就是說就是我最後這個問題就是尤其是在美國對他們的年輕族群這個有點像是公眾外交的部分我們現在有什麼比較好的措施"},{"start":178.143,"end":178.163,"text":"韓國瑜"},{"start":193.307,"end":215.223,"text":"對美來講我覺得州政府還有相關的這個更草根的層次我們是會做一個重點那當然除了州的意思對因為這次川普的支持有一些其實是非建制派的不是那種傳統這個保守主義的他來自於很基層的草根"},{"start":215.643,"end":237.879,"text":"所以我們在這個方面要跟他對接那另外當然臺美之間的合作計劃也有這些比較意見領袖的怎麼透過他們再去影響不管是臺美教育倡議還有這個有關於這些像Fruit by Scholarship或者是美國青年意見領袖訪問團國際青年精英領袖研習辦這些意見領袖也是很重要因為"},{"start":238.559,"end":261.652,"text":"除了這次選舉比較是內政導向跟他們的一些經濟但是外交我想呈現在一些民調上是也很有意思就是說其實除了參眾院的投票其實單單的這個撥款法案其實台灣、以色列跟這個烏克蘭我們就是得到最多支持所以參眾議員的其實也反映他對於民意只是說很多人對台灣不認識但對中國是認為他是敵意國家"},{"start":264.574,"end":283.133,"text":"可是怎麼樣增加對台灣的認識這個就是我們的空間所以比如說我們現在美國在台灣有24個州都設有經貿辦事處那我就跟我們外交部同仁講我們活動要找他們因為他們反向會回去影響他們的州你們跟台灣的投資貿易的關係所以一定要到subnational"},{"start":284.294,"end":285.295,"text":"現在的社會影響力包括第二代都組織起來"},{"start":301.291,"end":302.951,"text":"對於所謂的認知作戰假訊息對於所謂華人社會透過TITO的影響他們很有危機感"},{"start":323.616,"end":351.526,"text":"台灣他們又覺得我們可以經驗分享我想委員也常常幫我們扮演這個角色所以這個工作也是要進入總和外交去對接從中央到地方行政立法以及各個社會的這個可以說各個領域對我覺得剛剛部長提到很重要的就是subvention policy就是說我們現在對各種尤其是又是對他們的年輕人有些時候他們對於中國可能已經認識了但台灣是不夠了解"},{"start":352.386,"end":370.942,"text":"這個雖然是一體兩面但對我們來講很重要尤其是你要去破他們那個講法說這個情勢很複雜中國台灣都各有各的問題所以請不要亂碰觸那他如果不夠了解台灣他就會誤中這個陷阱我們在多年前我們跟日本的關係其實也是日本對中國相對來講有了解而且也認為中國是有一定的敵意"},{"start":371.582,"end":395.644,"text":"但對台灣其實是在那一次大捐款之後越來越多是一般民眾對於台灣的瞭解那雖然我們不可能會有那麼多的事件可以去展現這些善意但畢竟透過一些比較就剛剛提到的總和外交的方式應該可以讓更多的美國公眾尤其是年輕人瞭解我們那剛剛有提到我覺得很重要是NGO啦因為NGO畢竟是一個算是面對的這一個一般民眾的一個算是一個終結點"},{"start":397.125,"end":424.832,"text":"那這個中介點的NGO呢我們除了國內外的這個整合之外我這一次看到就是我們有這一個這個我今天跳過就是我們的NGO領袖論壇那NGO領袖論壇這個目標受眾其實我覺得就很重要因為我們希望NGO能夠第一個當然是我們能夠協助什麼但再來就是NGO他們這邊目標受眾他能不能把我們想要傳達的意思又能夠再帶回去我覺得這個應該是特別重要的事情那因為我們現在也有民主基金會民主基金會跟國內的NGO"},{"start":426.152,"end":428.013,"text":"目前國內外串聯的狀況 是不是可以請部長稍微說明一下是 除了民主基金會我們NGO其實預算有限但我發現我們有一個窗口跟就是作為資訊"},{"start":447.958,"end":468.196,"text":"那很多的交流我們要找相關業務部會一起做比如說我們現在加入世界衛生組織那種的醫療公衛很多的這個相關的NGO那同樣的這個智庫外交也是或者是說我們在推動經貿外交等那這個部分其實大家對台灣現在是有好感"},{"start":468.696,"end":468.916,"text":"沈伯洋議員"},{"start":499.068,"end":512.996,"text":"他如果能夠也加入到外交學院我們在講的那些東西的話或許也會是一個很大的幫助因為他可以深入理解嘛不然有時候都是比如說見個面可能一個小時半個小時那大家講的話不夠多那就變成說會比較像是形式上的交流"},{"start":513.536,"end":539.858,"text":"另外我跟委員也報告其實我在臺東市長我就想推INGO當時其實外交部也支持可是後來當然接我的市長他沒有要做不然其實INGO臺灣現在因為香港的問題對越來越多成立了臺灣因為這中共這個秘密這個境外資訊操弄還有非常多臺灣多元的文化也好各種的這個這個對接我們怎麼樣透過外交部做一個hub"},{"start":540.718,"end":541.198,"text":"時間到了,謝謝部長"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":868,"blocks":[["沈委員伯洋：（13時18分）謝謝主席，有請林部長，謝謝。"],["主席：請林部長。"],["沈委員伯洋：部長好。"],["林部長佳龍：委員好。"],["沈委員伯洋：我還是要講一下，主席，非本委員會的委員有時候講話的時間好像比本委員會的委員還要長，所以我剛剛等的有點太久了，我知道主席不好意思，但是他們有些人真的講太久了，對不對？","我想問一下部長，因為今天是預算，所以我想還是針對預算的部分，第一個是我之前一直在講的，就是我們在外交的時候會去接觸國外的這些議員、他們的官員、包含他們的智庫，但是有一部分其實還是跟他們的人民接觸，這個很重要，當然僑委會負責的一小部分，但外交部其實應該也是主責的單位。因為我最近在看NPR的出口民調，第一個他們說民主黨這一次年輕選票流失非常多，其實這一次川普的票跟上一次差距不大，但是這一次賀錦麗的票顯然跟拜登的是有差距，很明顯他掉的大部分都是年輕人。"],["林部長佳龍：對。"],["沈委員伯洋：然後在這個民調裡面我們可以看到他們有問，譬如以哈的問題、臺海的問題跟烏俄戰爭的問題，在這個裡面我們發現，他們18歲到29歲是在所有的age 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Scholarship、或者是美國青年意見領袖訪問團、國際青年菁英領袖研習班，這些意見領袖也是很重要。因為說來這次選舉比較是內政導向跟他們的一些經濟，但是外交方面我想呈現在一些民調上是也很有意思，就是其實除了參眾院的投票，單單就這個撥款法案，其實在臺灣、以色列跟烏克蘭當中，我們就是得到最多支持，所以參眾議員其實也反映民意，只是很多人對臺灣不認識，但對中國是認為他是敵意國家。"],["沈委員伯洋：對。"],["林部長佳龍：可是怎麼樣增加對臺灣的認識這個就是我們的空間，比如現在美國在臺灣有24個州都設有經貿辦事處，我就跟我們外交部同仁講，我們活動要找他們，因為他們反向會回去影響他們州跟臺灣的投資貿易的關係，所以一定要到sub-national，不能只是national或是international，所以到sub-national層次的外交，包括公眾外交。你看現在在美國的臺商會，過去是很多臺僑同鄉會，現在其實他們社會影響力，包括第二代都組織起來，所以我們現在的NGO也好、我們的公眾會還有相關的組織，我都鼓勵要跟他們對接，我很多行程都盡可能排，因為你有去跟這些人互動之後，他就會成為我們的分身，回到美國、當然包括加拿大，而且他們對於現在所謂的認知作戰與假訊息、對於華人社會透過TikTok的影響很有危機感，那臺灣他們又覺得我們可以經驗分享，我想委員也常常幫我們扮演這個角色，所以這個工作也是要進入總合外交去對接，從中央到地方、行政、立法以及社會各個領域。"],["沈委員伯洋：對，我覺得剛剛部長提到很重要的就是sub-national policy，就是我們現在對各州、尤其又是針對他們的年輕人，有些時候他們對於中國可能已經認識了，但對臺灣是不夠了解。"],["林部長佳龍：對。"],["沈委員伯洋：這個雖然是一體兩面，但對我們來講很重要，尤其是你要去破他們那個講法，說：這個情勢很複雜、中國、臺灣都有各個問題，所以請不要亂碰觸。那他如果不夠了解臺灣，他就會誤中這個陷阱。我們在多年前跟日本的關係其實也是，日本對中國相對來講有了解，而且也認為中國是有一定的敵意，但對臺灣其實是在那一次大捐款之後越來越多是一般民眾對於臺灣的了解。雖然我們不可能會有那麼多的事件可以去展現這些善意，但畢竟透過一些比較……例如剛剛提到的總合外交的方式，應該可以讓更多的美國公眾、尤其是年輕人了解我們。","剛剛有提到我覺得很重要的是NGO，因為NGO畢竟算是一個一個面對一般民眾的中介點，這個中介點的NGO我們除了國內外的整合之外，我這一次看到就是我們有這個……這個我今天先跳過，就是我們的NGO領袖論壇，NGO領袖論壇這個目標受眾其實我覺得就很重要，因為我們希望NGO……第一個當然是我們能夠協助什麼，再來就是NGO他們這些目標受眾能不能把我們想要傳達的意思又能夠再帶回去，我覺得這個應該是特別重要的事情。因為我們現在也有民主基金會，民主基金會跟國內的NGO也會有一定的對接，但我看這部分出席的等等之類的，有時候國內的好像也不夠多，當然是有很多國外的，目前國內外串聯的狀況是不是可以請部長稍微說明一下？"],["林部長佳龍：是，除了民主基金會，我們NGO其實預算有限，但我發現我們有一個窗口做為資訊，很多的交流我們要找相關業務部會一起做，比如我們現在加入世界衛生組織，要找那種醫療公衛很多相關的NGO；同樣的，智庫外交也是，或者是我們在推動經貿外交等。這個部分其實大家對臺灣現在是有好感，因為不管我們的民主或者我們的半導體這些科技，怎麼去促進我們外交部做一個核心，比如我們的外交學院，以前可能就純粹是我們外交官的訓練，可是我們現在怎麼樣去跟這些NGO、智庫或相關的，比如去對接在臺灣的州政府代表，所以我在一些活動現在都儘量邀請擴及到，讓它可以比較跨領域、比較跨界。"],["沈委員伯洋：對，他如果能夠也加入到外交學院我們在講的那些東西的話，或許也會是一個很大的幫助，因為他可以深入理解，不然有時候都是……比如見個面可能1個小時、半個小時，大家講的話不夠多，就會變成比較像是形式上的交流，如果他能……"],["林部長佳龍：另外我也跟委員報告，我在當臺中市長時就想推INGO，當時其實外交部也支持，可是後來接我的市長沒有要做，不然其實INGO，臺灣現在因為香港的問題，還有……"],["沈委員伯洋：對，越來越多成立了。"],["林部長佳龍：臺灣因為這中共FIMI──境外資訊操弄，還有非常多臺灣多元的文化也好、各種的對接，我們怎麼樣透過外交部做一個hub，這個我也是希望在總合外交下面，我們在業務報告有大概10項，NGO外交相關的比如文化外交、運動外交，就是外交的內容不能只是雙邊的政務，因為大家都想交流，所以我們外交部可以做一個平台。"],["沈委員伯洋：謝謝部長，因為有一些關於交流的細項和成效，我大概有兩三個細項在預算的時候會再來好好做討論，我就不在這邊問了。","時間到了，謝謝部長、謝謝主席。"],["林部長佳龍：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝沈伯洋委員，部長請回。","已登記質詢委員除不在場者外已經發言完畢，報告及詢答結束。本日會議有羅美玲委員、黃仁委員、王鴻薇委員提出書面質詢，請列入紀錄並刊登公報，請相關機關以書面於兩週內答復；委員口頭質詢未及答復部分、要求補充資料者亦請相關單位以書面兩週內提供；委員另約定期限者從期所定。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":150,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-19","speakers":["林憶君","羅美玲","陳冠廷","王定宇","林楚茵","馬文君","徐巧芯","賴士葆","黃國昌","楊瓊瓔","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","羅廷瑋","羅智強","邱志偉","葉元之","沈伯洋","黃仁","王鴻薇"],"page_start":97,"meetingDate":["2024-11-28"],"gazette_id":"11310701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310701_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第19次全體委員會議（含秘密會議）紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於外交部主管收支公開及機密部分（僅詢答）；二、繼續\n處理院會交付外交部113年度中央政府總預算決議（十八）「對外之捐助」預算凍結100萬元案","agenda_id":"11310701_00002"}}}