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\"那因為在這個要符合白名班的規範才能夠使用那但是一般民眾他們在使用這種訊息發送還附帶這個縮短連結那他們其實並不是所謂的商業企業但是卻導致這個第三方平台過過表達訊息發送的時候他就被擋下就被認為是詐騙那關鍵在於簡訊中的網址DNS他這樣子被認定上他沒有通過白名單的認證\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 58.078, \"end\": 58.298, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 58.298, \"end\": 59.138, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 59.138, \"end\": 59.779, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 59.779, \"end\": 60.039, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"符\", \"start\": 60.039, \"end\": 60.199, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"合\", \"start\": 60.199, \"end\": 60.559, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"白\", \"start\": 60.559, \"end\": 60.719, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"名\", \"start\": 60.719, \"end\": 60.959, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"班\", \"start\": 60.959, \"end\": 61.219, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 61.219, \"end\": 62.2, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"範\"}, {\"word\": \"才\", \"start\": 62.2, \"end\": 62.32, \"score\": 0.717}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 62.32, \"end\": 62.68, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"使\", \"start\": 62.68, \"end\": 62.86, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 62.86, \"end\": 63.32, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 63.32, \"end\": 64.001, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 64.001, \"end\": 64.101, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 64.101, \"end\": 64.201, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 64.201, \"end\": 64.381, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"般\", \"start\": 64.381, \"end\": 64.561, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 64.561, \"end\": 65.021, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"眾\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 65.021, \"end\": 65.301, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 65.301, \"end\": 65.541, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"使\", \"start\": 65.541, \"end\": 65.641, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 65.641, 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\"end\": 71.264, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"謂\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 71.264, \"end\": 71.584, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"商\", \"start\": 71.584, \"end\": 72.084, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"企\", \"start\": 72.084, \"end\": 72.884, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 72.884, \"end\": 73.024, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 73.024, \"end\": 73.705, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"卻\"}, {\"word\": \"導\"}, {\"word\": \"致\", \"start\": 73.705, \"end\": 74.145, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 74.145, \"end\": 74.245, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 74.245, \"end\": 74.365, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 74.365, \"end\": 74.565, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"平\", \"start\": 74.565, \"end\": 74.805, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 74.805, \"end\": 75.626, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"表\", \"start\": 75.626, \"end\": 76.106, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"達\"}, {\"word\": \"訊\"}, {\"word\": \"息\", \"start\": 76.106, \"end\": 76.486, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"送\", \"start\": 76.486, \"end\": 76.666, \"score\": 0.803}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 76.666, \"end\": 76.906, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 76.906, \"end\": 77.506, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 77.506, \"end\": 77.666, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 77.666, \"end\": 77.746, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"被\", \"start\": 77.746, \"end\": 78.147, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"擋\"}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 78.147, \"end\": 78.287, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 78.287, \"end\": 78.387, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"被\", \"start\": 78.387, \"end\": 78.787, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 78.787, \"end\": 79.867, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"詐\"}, {\"word\": \"騙\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 79.867, \"end\": 80.328, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"鍵\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 80.328, \"end\": 80.468, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 80.468, \"end\": 80.948, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"簡\"}, {\"word\": \"訊\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 80.948, \"end\": 81.128, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 81.128, \"end\": 81.528, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"網\"}, {\"word\": \"址\", \"start\": 81.528, \"end\": 81.668, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"D\", \"start\": 81.668, \"end\": 81.848, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"N\", \"start\": 81.848, \"end\": 82.048, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"S\", \"start\": 82.048, \"end\": 82.549, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 82.549, \"end\": 82.889, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 82.889, \"end\": 83.069, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"被\", \"start\": 83.069, \"end\": 83.549, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 83.549, \"end\": 83.709, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 83.709, \"end\": 83.949, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 83.949, \"end\": 84.069, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 84.069, \"end\": 84.169, \"score\": 0.783}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 84.169, \"end\": 84.289, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 84.289, \"end\": 84.609, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"白\", \"start\": 84.609, \"end\": 84.749, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"名\", \"start\": 84.749, \"end\": 84.85, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 84.85, \"end\": 84.87, \"score\": 0.002}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"證\"}]}, {\"start\": 86.01, \"end\": 107.324, \"text\": \"那今天當然說NCC在處理相關的訊息跟措施他是希望防詐打詐那我們都認同但是在這樣子的措施之下卻導致一般的民生也好包括學術也好在這個訊息的傳遞上還就變成沒有辦法符合規定而無法傳送那這個問題小結下怎麼解決\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 86.01, \"end\": 86.27, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 86.27, \"end\": 86.41, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 86.41, \"end\": 86.43, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 86.43, \"end\": 87.031, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"N\", \"start\": 87.031, \"end\": 87.871, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"C\", \"start\": 87.871, \"end\": 88.011, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"C\", \"start\": 88.011, \"end\": 88.171, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 88.171, \"end\": 88.592, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 88.592, \"end\": 88.732, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 88.732, \"end\": 89.132, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 89.132, \"end\": 90.013, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"訊\"}, {\"word\": \"息\", \"start\": 90.013, \"end\": 90.173, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 90.173, \"end\": 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\"遞\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 103.121, \"end\": 103.902, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 103.902, \"end\": 104.242, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"變\"}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 104.242, \"end\": 104.482, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 104.482, \"end\": 104.602, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 104.602, \"end\": 104.663, \"score\": 0.793}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 104.663, \"end\": 104.923, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"符\", \"start\": 104.923, \"end\": 105.143, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"合\", \"start\": 105.143, \"end\": 105.323, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 105.323, \"end\": 105.463, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 105.463, \"end\": 105.603, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"無\", \"start\": 105.603, \"end\": 105.763, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 105.763, \"end\": 106.204, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"傳\"}, {\"word\": \"送\", \"start\": 106.204, \"end\": 106.944, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 106.944, \"end\": 107.084, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"小\", \"start\": 107.084, \"end\": 107.104, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 107.104, \"end\": 107.204, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"怎\", \"start\": 107.204, \"end\": 107.304, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 107.304, \"end\": 107.324, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"決\"}]}, {\"start\": 110.247, \"end\": 124.689, \"text\": \"跟委員報告,首先呢,大概就是,我想那個,這個措施實際上是一個目前看來是一個還OK的措施了那現在問題是在執行的技術上面啦,我們有待精進啦特別是說那個一般民眾的這個50折的部分的話\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 110.247, \"end\": 110.367, \"score\": 0.679}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 110.367, \"end\": 110.707, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 110.707, \"end\": 111.328, \"score\": 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{\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"啊\", \"start\": 421.097, \"end\": 421.117, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 421.917, \"end\": 445.178, \"text\": \"那不管是政府機關在這個諮詢委員他其實都像是一個顧問性質不管他是案件記酬也好或是有幾職顧問因為像現任顧問或是包括許多的現任顧問有有幾職也有無幾職義務職那如果說像諮詢委員的話他如果在機關來講他沒有辦法去做公開的話那其實反而成為一種黑箱\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 421.917, \"end\": 422.638, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 422.638, \"end\": 422.758, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 422.758, \"end\": 422.898, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 422.898, \"end\": 422.998, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 422.998, \"end\": 423.158, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 423.158, \"end\": 423.819, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 423.819, \"end\": 424.459, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"諮\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 424.459, \"end\": 424.82, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": 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{\"word\": \"幾\"}, {\"word\": \"職\"}, {\"word\": \"義\"}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"職\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 435.59, \"end\": 436.37, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 436.37, \"end\": 436.49, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 436.49, \"end\": 436.711, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"像\", \"start\": 436.711, \"end\": 437.291, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"諮\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 437.291, \"end\": 437.591, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 437.591, \"end\": 438.452, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 438.452, \"end\": 438.893, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 438.893, \"end\": 439.173, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 439.173, \"end\": 439.613, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 439.613, \"end\": 440.734, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 440.734, \"end\": 441.055, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 441.055, \"end\": 441.195, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 441.195, \"end\": 441.455, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 441.455, \"end\": 441.635, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 441.635, \"end\": 441.795, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 441.795, \"end\": 441.995, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 441.995, \"end\": 442.456, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 442.456, \"end\": 443.177, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 443.177, \"end\": 443.557, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 443.557, \"end\": 444.117, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"反\", \"start\": 444.117, \"end\": 444.258, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 444.258, \"end\": 444.458, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": 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492.08, \"text\": \"關說的壓力會變得集中在公務員手上今天成為諮詢委員本來就不應該成為關說的窗口但是諮詢委員本來就有一個他專業角色的公正性如果說連地方的調解委員會他都是公開訊息我相信能夠擔任諮詢委員就應該是經得起考驗\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 471.601, \"end\": 472.262, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"壓\"}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 472.262, \"end\": 473.163, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"變\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 473.163, \"end\": 473.303, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"集\", \"start\": 473.303, \"end\": 473.423, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 473.423, \"end\": 473.603, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 473.603, \"end\": 473.844, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 473.844, \"end\": 474.264, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"手\", \"start\": 474.264, \"end\": 474.464, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 474.464, \"end\": 475.525, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 475.525, \"end\": 475.625, 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\"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,095 --> 00:00:10,376\n謝謝召委那有請NCC請NCC黃祖密委員長主委長那延續蔡啟昌委員所提的題目那本辦公室有接到一些陳情電話那就是針對這個NCC實施這個簡訊發送的實名制登錄政策11月18號之後那\n\n2\n00:00:35,023 --> 00:00:55,837\n有些鄉親他們在傳送這個喜宴的登記啊那他們是用Google表單他們到時候傳了之後他們到時候就沒有辦法那包括那個學生學校研究生他們在做這個問卷調查在量化的部分那他們傳送了之後那同樣的話就被認為是詐騙訊息\n\n3\n00:00:58,078 --> 00:01:24,870\n那因為在這個要符合白名班的規範才能夠使用那但是一般民眾他們在使用這種訊息發送還附帶這個縮短連結那他們其實並不是所謂的商業企業但是卻導致這個第三方平台過過表達訊息發送的時候他就被擋下就被認為是詐騙那關鍵在於簡訊中的網址DNS他這樣子被認定上他沒有通過白名單的認證\n\n4\n00:01:26,010 --> 00:01:47,324\n那今天當然說NCC在處理相關的訊息跟措施他是希望防詐打詐那我們都認同但是在這樣子的措施之下卻導致一般的民生也好包括學術也好在這個訊息的傳遞上還就變成沒有辦法符合規定而無法傳送那這個問題小結下怎麼解決\n\n5\n00:01:50,247 --> 00:02:04,689\n跟委員報告,首先呢,大概就是,我想那個,這個措施實際上是一個目前看來是一個還OK的措施了那現在問題是在執行的技術上面啦,我們有待精進啦特別是說那個一般民眾的這個50折的部分的話\n\n6\n00:02:05,410 --> 00:02:28,866\n如果說就是我們也不停的一直在透過各式各樣的途徑跟當事人也請電信公司就是再詢問一下如果假設一般民眾有在同時一次要發送50則以上的簡訊的話那他務必要在後端要去做好KYC你要做好KYC的話他還是可以發送了那委員您在提的是另外一端叫做企業客戶的部分\n\n7\n00:02:29,794 --> 00:02:56,487\n民眾並不是企業客戶但是民眾卻在傳送訊息的時候被認定為企業客戶如果說假設民眾有因為一次傳送超過50折的話那這部分我們會再請我們電信協會那您覺得在溝通的過程中大約民眾不管是在學術、喜宴或是活動邀請上的這一種方式甚至說他們在有獎徵打或是在比賽票選的時候那他們在這種的用表單的方式傳遞的時候\n\n8\n00:02:57,788 --> 00:03:20,732\n那大約是可以用到簡訊提升到多少則數才不會去擾民目前的話因為我們過去我們有統計統計過的結果了大概一般我們一般一般正常的話特殊情形當然例外了那正常情況大概一天發到50則是差不多超過就是一般人的這種的使用習慣那如果說假設你一次真的有一次要發送到50則以上的話\n\n9\n00:03:21,994 --> 00:03:23,238\n通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管\n\n10\n00:03:28,925 --> 00:03:56,101\n那這個部分我本期還是要在這裡要建議NCC因為一般的民眾他們在實驗或是學術研究或是在票選他們並不知道說還要跟NCC或是還要跟電信業者講這一塊那我是覺得在這種的設定上那要合理商業歸商業民用歸民用那本期還是要建議說在這樣子的一個處理上不管在則述以及包括在宣導上還是與改進\n\n11\n00:03:57,022 --> 00:04:26,094\n我們在這種常態性的規定之外是不是要做一些例外的這些設定這個就交給你來讓社會大眾知道另外再補充延續的剛才我們魯明哲委員所提到的NCC他編的這個律師訴訟費他從150萬再到710萬再到1000多萬那本席還是要請教那這裡面訴訟有關於是中天相關的訴訟案件大約就是多少件以及多少比例目前的話中天大概\n\n12\n00:04:27,374 --> 00:04:28,756\n總共是26件那花了多少的訴訟費?\n\n13\n00:04:43,011 --> 00:04:56,321\n不好意思,如果是從108年6月到113年9月30,那個拆除案的部分目前的金額是619萬7千元,那單件是平均12萬多?那本來是建議\n\n14\n00:04:58,802 --> 00:05:25,753\n這個中天的這個換照的部分我在想NCC還是不要做其他的人的打手啊編的律師的訴訟費在強害這個媒體自由跟獨立性那本席還是建議說在這種的律師的訴訟費的使用還如果說今天來講是因為中天關台之後還不斷的往上編之後本席來講這樣子的律師訴訟費跟這種打手行為還是極不合理\n\n15\n00:05:27,694 --> 00:05:40,680\n在我們不以換照之前其實就有陸續的輸送在進行這是不斷的提高這個看得出來的數據啦當然沒關係這就檢討啦好不好謝謝好謝謝那我接著要請那個我們陳靜德陳主委請工程會陳主委\n\n16\n00:05:45,547 --> 00:06:09,742\n本席在這裡還是感謝還是感謝對於我們南投財務重建的協助那在預算出的質詢力上都非常的質詢力非常的有成效但是本席還是針對剛才大家持續討論的不管是恐犯期或者是包括申訴審議委員會名單那以及包括諮詢委員會的名單本席在這裡還是要跟主委以及包括工程會來討論\n\n17\n00:06:12,404 --> 00:06:33,247\n其實剛才在提案的部分都有在聽都有在了解其實今天像國策顧問還有行政院顧問、縣政顧問到施工所顧問那其他都是公開資訊那如果說今天來講在公共程委員會他的所謂的諮詢委員那他為何無法公開\n\n18\n00:06:34,108 --> 00:07:01,117\n我跟委員報告就是說申訴委員啊申訴委員的功能有申訴功能所以等同書院所以他有公開那這個諮詢委員部分那麼當事人如果他不同意公開我們也沒有辦法公開我們必須去徵詢這個諮詢委員的意見主委這其實我剛才聽也都聽很久了這三個小時都在聽這個相關的訊息那本席在這裡還是要建議啊\n\n19\n00:07:01,917 --> 00:07:25,178\n那不管是政府機關在這個諮詢委員他其實都像是一個顧問性質不管他是案件記酬也好或是有幾職顧問因為像現任顧問或是包括許多的現任顧問有有幾職也有無幾職義務職那如果說像諮詢委員的話他如果在機關來講他沒有辦法去做公開的話那其實反而成為一種黑箱\n\n20\n00:07:26,019 --> 00:07:50,160\n那其實今天的諮詢委員他應該是一個榮譽的事情那如果把這樣子的一個諮詢委員他能夠讓社會大眾了解的話也更強化了政府機關的一個公信力或是包括他要諮詢的管道那如果說今天來講沒有公開變成說公家機關就成為要諮詢的管道或唯一的窗口的時候反而任何的\n\n21\n00:07:51,601 --> 00:08:12,080\n關說的壓力會變得集中在公務員手上今天成為諮詢委員本來就不應該成為關說的窗口但是諮詢委員本來就有一個他專業角色的公正性如果說連地方的調解委員會他都是公開訊息我相信能夠擔任諮詢委員就應該是經得起考驗\n\n22\n00:08:12,981 --> 00:08:32,432\n那我也相信不管是以前的主委當然您擔任主委的時候所聘任的諮詢委員他們都應該要經得起考驗那這個相信也沒有問題所以本席還在這裡說出就是希望能夠把這個諮詢委員會的名單還有六十名單給交通委員會的委員做一份參考\n\n23\n00:08:33,072 --> 00:09:00,350\n我們回去徵詢諮詢委員的意願不過這沒有公開這件事情並不是我就任以來才不公開我知道是以前一直以來所以我就說這些諮詢委員的責任不一定說是在於說誰而是在於說今天是一路以來聘下來的那到底他適不適任以及說包括他是不是有被討論的但是我覺得至少今天的諮詢委員都應該是為這個工程會加分\n\n24\n00:09:01,030 --> 00:09:20,003\n那不僅是工程會包括各部會相關的諮詢文其實也應該要公開因為這種是一個榮譽職嘛那也是為政府機關在協助的角色嘛那在今天本來來講他就不用擔心說他會不會成為關說的窗口因為他本來就應該具備他的公正性在\n\n25\n00:09:20,723 --> 00:09:44,668\n那也不應該讓公家機關的公務員來背負著任何被諮詢的時候被人家質疑的一個罪所以本期還是建議不僅是其他部會包括工程會可以針對諮詢委員在一個月內還徵詢完了之後還就做公開那另外不願意公開的諮詢委員我們也要慎重的來思考他不願意被公開的原因在哪裡謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6095\t10376\t謝謝召委那有請NCC請NCC黃祖密委員長主委長那延續蔡啟昌委員所提的題目那本辦公室有接到一些陳情電話那就是針對這個NCC實施這個簡訊發送的實名制登錄政策11月18號之後那\n35023\t55837\t有些鄉親他們在傳送這個喜宴的登記啊那他們是用Google表單他們到時候傳了之後他們到時候就沒有辦法那包括那個學生學校研究生他們在做這個問卷調查在量化的部分那他們傳送了之後那同樣的話就被認為是詐騙訊息\n58078\t84870\t那因為在這個要符合白名班的規範才能夠使用那但是一般民眾他們在使用這種訊息發送還附帶這個縮短連結那他們其實並不是所謂的商業企業但是卻導致這個第三方平台過過表達訊息發送的時候他就被擋下就被認為是詐騙那關鍵在於簡訊中的網址DNS他這樣子被認定上他沒有通過白名單的認證\n86010\t107324\t那今天當然說NCC在處理相關的訊息跟措施他是希望防詐打詐那我們都認同但是在這樣子的措施之下卻導致一般的民生也好包括學術也好在這個訊息的傳遞上還就變成沒有辦法符合規定而無法傳送那這個問題小結下怎麼解決\n110247\t124689\t跟委員報告,首先呢,大概就是,我想那個,這個措施實際上是一個目前看來是一個還OK的措施了那現在問題是在執行的技術上面啦,我們有待精進啦特別是說那個一般民眾的這個50折的部分的話\n125410\t148866\t如果說就是我們也不停的一直在透過各式各樣的途徑跟當事人也請電信公司就是再詢問一下如果假設一般民眾有在同時一次要發送50則以上的簡訊的話那他務必要在後端要去做好KYC你要做好KYC的話他還是可以發送了那委員您在提的是另外一端叫做企業客戶的部分\n149794\t176487\t民眾並不是企業客戶但是民眾卻在傳送訊息的時候被認定為企業客戶如果說假設民眾有因為一次傳送超過50折的話那這部分我們會再請我們電信協會那您覺得在溝通的過程中大約民眾不管是在學術、喜宴或是活動邀請上的這一種方式甚至說他們在有獎徵打或是在比賽票選的時候那他們在這種的用表單的方式傳遞的時候\n177788\t200732\t那大約是可以用到簡訊提升到多少則數才不會去擾民目前的話因為我們過去我們有統計統計過的結果了大概一般我們一般一般正常的話特殊情形當然例外了那正常情況大概一天發到50則是差不多超過就是一般人的這種的使用習慣那如果說假設你一次真的有一次要發送到50則以上的話\n201994\t203238\t通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管\n208925\t236101\t那這個部分我本期還是要在這裡要建議NCC因為一般的民眾他們在實驗或是學術研究或是在票選他們並不知道說還要跟NCC或是還要跟電信業者講這一塊那我是覺得在這種的設定上那要合理商業歸商業民用歸民用那本期還是要建議說在這樣子的一個處理上不管在則述以及包括在宣導上還是與改進\n237022\t266094\t我們在這種常態性的規定之外是不是要做一些例外的這些設定這個就交給你來讓社會大眾知道另外再補充延續的剛才我們魯明哲委員所提到的NCC他編的這個律師訴訟費他從150萬再到710萬再到1000多萬那本席還是要請教那這裡面訴訟有關於是中天相關的訴訟案件大約就是多少件以及多少比例目前的話中天大概\n267374\t268756\t總共是26件那花了多少的訴訟費?\n283011\t296321\t不好意思,如果是從108年6月到113年9月30,那個拆除案的部分目前的金額是619萬7千元,那單件是平均12萬多?那本來是建議\n298802\t325753\t這個中天的這個換照的部分我在想NCC還是不要做其他的人的打手啊編的律師的訴訟費在強害這個媒體自由跟獨立性那本席還是建議說在這種的律師的訴訟費的使用還如果說今天來講是因為中天關台之後還不斷的往上編之後本席來講這樣子的律師訴訟費跟這種打手行為還是極不合理\n327694\t340680\t在我們不以換照之前其實就有陸續的輸送在進行這是不斷的提高這個看得出來的數據啦當然沒關係這就檢討啦好不好謝謝好謝謝那我接著要請那個我們陳靜德陳主委請工程會陳主委\n345547\t369742\t本席在這裡還是感謝還是感謝對於我們南投財務重建的協助那在預算出的質詢力上都非常的質詢力非常的有成效但是本席還是針對剛才大家持續討論的不管是恐犯期或者是包括申訴審議委員會名單那以及包括諮詢委員會的名單本席在這裡還是要跟主委以及包括工程會來討論\n372404\t393247\t其實剛才在提案的部分都有在聽都有在了解其實今天像國策顧問還有行政院顧問、縣政顧問到施工所顧問那其他都是公開資訊那如果說今天來講在公共程委員會他的所謂的諮詢委員那他為何無法公開\n394108\t421117\t我跟委員報告就是說申訴委員啊申訴委員的功能有申訴功能所以等同書院所以他有公開那這個諮詢委員部分那麼當事人如果他不同意公開我們也沒有辦法公開我們必須去徵詢這個諮詢委員的意見主委這其實我剛才聽也都聽很久了這三個小時都在聽這個相關的訊息那本席在這裡還是要建議啊\n421917\t445178\t那不管是政府機關在這個諮詢委員他其實都像是一個顧問性質不管他是案件記酬也好或是有幾職顧問因為像現任顧問或是包括許多的現任顧問有有幾職也有無幾職義務職那如果說像諮詢委員的話他如果在機關來講他沒有辦法去做公開的話那其實反而成為一種黑箱\n446019\t470160\t那其實今天的諮詢委員他應該是一個榮譽的事情那如果把這樣子的一個諮詢委員他能夠讓社會大眾了解的話也更強化了政府機關的一個公信力或是包括他要諮詢的管道那如果說今天來講沒有公開變成說公家機關就成為要諮詢的管道或唯一的窗口的時候反而任何的\n471601\t492080\t關說的壓力會變得集中在公務員手上今天成為諮詢委員本來就不應該成為關說的窗口但是諮詢委員本來就有一個他專業角色的公正性如果說連地方的調解委員會他都是公開訊息我相信能夠擔任諮詢委員就應該是經得起考驗\n492981\t512432\t那我也相信不管是以前的主委當然您擔任主委的時候所聘任的諮詢委員他們都應該要經得起考驗那這個相信也沒有問題所以本席還在這裡說出就是希望能夠把這個諮詢委員會的名單還有六十名單給交通委員會的委員做一份參考\n513072\t540350\t我們回去徵詢諮詢委員的意願不過這沒有公開這件事情並不是我就任以來才不公開我知道是以前一直以來所以我就說這些諮詢委員的責任不一定說是在於說誰而是在於說今天是一路以來聘下來的那到底他適不適任以及說包括他是不是有被討論的但是我覺得至少今天的諮詢委員都應該是為這個工程會加分\n541030\t560003\t那不僅是工程會包括各部會相關的諮詢文其實也應該要公開因為這種是一個榮譽職嘛那也是為政府機關在協助的角色嘛那在今天本來來講他就不用擔心說他會不會成為關說的窗口因為他本來就應該具備他的公正性在\n560723\t584668\t那也不應該讓公家機關的公務員來背負著任何被諮詢的時候被人家質疑的一個罪所以本期還是建議不僅是其他部會包括工程會可以針對諮詢委員在一個月內還徵詢完了之後還就做公開那另外不願意公開的諮詢委員我們也要慎重的來思考他不願意被公開的原因在哪裡謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝召委那有請NCC請NCC黃祖密委員長主委長那延續蔡啟昌委員所提的題目那本辦公室有接到一些陳情電話那就是針對這個NCC實施這個簡訊發送的實名制登錄政策11月18號之後那\n有些鄉親他們在傳送這個喜宴的登記啊那他們是用Google表單他們到時候傳了之後他們到時候就沒有辦法那包括那個學生學校研究生他們在做這個問卷調查在量化的部分那他們傳送了之後那同樣的話就被認為是詐騙訊息\n那因為在這個要符合白名班的規範才能夠使用那但是一般民眾他們在使用這種訊息發送還附帶這個縮短連結那他們其實並不是所謂的商業企業但是卻導致這個第三方平台過過表達訊息發送的時候他就被擋下就被認為是詐騙那關鍵在於簡訊中的網址DNS他這樣子被認定上他沒有通過白名單的認證\n那今天當然說NCC在處理相關的訊息跟措施他是希望防詐打詐那我們都認同但是在這樣子的措施之下卻導致一般的民生也好包括學術也好在這個訊息的傳遞上還就變成沒有辦法符合規定而無法傳送那這個問題小結下怎麼解決\n跟委員報告,首先呢,大概就是,我想那個,這個措施實際上是一個目前看來是一個還OK的措施了那現在問題是在執行的技術上面啦,我們有待精進啦特別是說那個一般民眾的這個50折的部分的話\n如果說就是我們也不停的一直在透過各式各樣的途徑跟當事人也請電信公司就是再詢問一下如果假設一般民眾有在同時一次要發送50則以上的簡訊的話那他務必要在後端要去做好KYC你要做好KYC的話他還是可以發送了那委員您在提的是另外一端叫做企業客戶的部分\n民眾並不是企業客戶但是民眾卻在傳送訊息的時候被認定為企業客戶如果說假設民眾有因為一次傳送超過50折的話那這部分我們會再請我們電信協會那您覺得在溝通的過程中大約民眾不管是在學術、喜宴或是活動邀請上的這一種方式甚至說他們在有獎徵打或是在比賽票選的時候那他們在這種的用表單的方式傳遞的時候\n那大約是可以用到簡訊提升到多少則數才不會去擾民目前的話因為我們過去我們有統計統計過的結果了大概一般我們一般一般正常的話特殊情形當然例外了那正常情況大概一天發到50則是差不多超過就是一般人的這種的使用習慣那如果說假設你一次真的有一次要發送到50則以上的話\n通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管\n那這個部分我本期還是要在這裡要建議NCC因為一般的民眾他們在實驗或是學術研究或是在票選他們並不知道說還要跟NCC或是還要跟電信業者講這一塊那我是覺得在這種的設定上那要合理商業歸商業民用歸民用那本期還是要建議說在這樣子的一個處理上不管在則述以及包括在宣導上還是與改進\n我們在這種常態性的規定之外是不是要做一些例外的這些設定這個就交給你來讓社會大眾知道另外再補充延續的剛才我們魯明哲委員所提到的NCC他編的這個律師訴訟費他從150萬再到710萬再到1000多萬那本席還是要請教那這裡面訴訟有關於是中天相關的訴訟案件大約就是多少件以及多少比例目前的話中天大概\n總共是26件那花了多少的訴訟費?\n不好意思,如果是從108年6月到113年9月30,那個拆除案的部分目前的金額是619萬7千元,那單件是平均12萬多?那本來是建議\n這個中天的這個換照的部分我在想NCC還是不要做其他的人的打手啊編的律師的訴訟費在強害這個媒體自由跟獨立性那本席還是建議說在這種的律師的訴訟費的使用還如果說今天來講是因為中天關台之後還不斷的往上編之後本席來講這樣子的律師訴訟費跟這種打手行為還是極不合理\n在我們不以換照之前其實就有陸續的輸送在進行這是不斷的提高這個看得出來的數據啦當然沒關係這就檢討啦好不好謝謝好謝謝那我接著要請那個我們陳靜德陳主委請工程會陳主委\n本席在這裡還是感謝還是感謝對於我們南投財務重建的協助那在預算出的質詢力上都非常的質詢力非常的有成效但是本席還是針對剛才大家持續討論的不管是恐犯期或者是包括申訴審議委員會名單那以及包括諮詢委員會的名單本席在這裡還是要跟主委以及包括工程會來討論\n其實剛才在提案的部分都有在聽都有在了解其實今天像國策顧問還有行政院顧問、縣政顧問到施工所顧問那其他都是公開資訊那如果說今天來講在公共程委員會他的所謂的諮詢委員那他為何無法公開\n我跟委員報告就是說申訴委員啊申訴委員的功能有申訴功能所以等同書院所以他有公開那這個諮詢委員部分那麼當事人如果他不同意公開我們也沒有辦法公開我們必須去徵詢這個諮詢委員的意見主委這其實我剛才聽也都聽很久了這三個小時都在聽這個相關的訊息那本席在這裡還是要建議啊\n那不管是政府機關在這個諮詢委員他其實都像是一個顧問性質不管他是案件記酬也好或是有幾職顧問因為像現任顧問或是包括許多的現任顧問有有幾職也有無幾職義務職那如果說像諮詢委員的話他如果在機關來講他沒有辦法去做公開的話那其實反而成為一種黑箱\n那其實今天的諮詢委員他應該是一個榮譽的事情那如果把這樣子的一個諮詢委員他能夠讓社會大眾了解的話也更強化了政府機關的一個公信力或是包括他要諮詢的管道那如果說今天來講沒有公開變成說公家機關就成為要諮詢的管道或唯一的窗口的時候反而任何的\n關說的壓力會變得集中在公務員手上今天成為諮詢委員本來就不應該成為關說的窗口但是諮詢委員本來就有一個他專業角色的公正性如果說連地方的調解委員會他都是公開訊息我相信能夠擔任諮詢委員就應該是經得起考驗\n那我也相信不管是以前的主委當然您擔任主委的時候所聘任的諮詢委員他們都應該要經得起考驗那這個相信也沒有問題所以本席還在這裡說出就是希望能夠把這個諮詢委員會的名單還有六十名單給交通委員會的委員做一份參考\n我們回去徵詢諮詢委員的意願不過這沒有公開這件事情並不是我就任以來才不公開我知道是以前一直以來所以我就說這些諮詢委員的責任不一定說是在於說誰而是在於說今天是一路以來聘下來的那到底他適不適任以及說包括他是不是有被討論的但是我覺得至少今天的諮詢委員都應該是為這個工程會加分\n那不僅是工程會包括各部會相關的諮詢文其實也應該要公開因為這種是一個榮譽職嘛那也是為政府機關在協助的角色嘛那在今天本來來講他就不用擔心說他會不會成為關說的窗口因為他本來就應該具備他的公正性在\n那也不應該讓公家機關的公務員來背負著任何被諮詢的時候被人家質疑的一個罪所以本期還是建議不僅是其他部會包括工程會可以針對諮詢委員在一個月內還徵詢完了之後還就做公開那另外不願意公開的諮詢委員我們也要慎重的來思考他不願意被公開的原因在哪裡謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.095 --> 00:10.376\n謝謝召委那有請NCC請NCC黃祖密委員長主委長那延續蔡啟昌委員所提的題目那本辦公室有接到一些陳情電話那就是針對這個NCC實施這個簡訊發送的實名制登錄政策11月18號之後那\n\n00:35.023 --> 00:55.837\n有些鄉親他們在傳送這個喜宴的登記啊那他們是用Google表單他們到時候傳了之後他們到時候就沒有辦法那包括那個學生學校研究生他們在做這個問卷調查在量化的部分那他們傳送了之後那同樣的話就被認為是詐騙訊息\n\n00:58.078 --> 01:24.870\n那因為在這個要符合白名班的規範才能夠使用那但是一般民眾他們在使用這種訊息發送還附帶這個縮短連結那他們其實並不是所謂的商業企業但是卻導致這個第三方平台過過表達訊息發送的時候他就被擋下就被認為是詐騙那關鍵在於簡訊中的網址DNS他這樣子被認定上他沒有通過白名單的認證\n\n01:26.010 --> 01:47.324\n那今天當然說NCC在處理相關的訊息跟措施他是希望防詐打詐那我們都認同但是在這樣子的措施之下卻導致一般的民生也好包括學術也好在這個訊息的傳遞上還就變成沒有辦法符合規定而無法傳送那這個問題小結下怎麼解決\n\n01:50.247 --> 02:04.689\n跟委員報告,首先呢,大概就是,我想那個,這個措施實際上是一個目前看來是一個還OK的措施了那現在問題是在執行的技術上面啦,我們有待精進啦特別是說那個一般民眾的這個50折的部分的話\n\n02:05.410 --> 02:28.866\n如果說就是我們也不停的一直在透過各式各樣的途徑跟當事人也請電信公司就是再詢問一下如果假設一般民眾有在同時一次要發送50則以上的簡訊的話那他務必要在後端要去做好KYC你要做好KYC的話他還是可以發送了那委員您在提的是另外一端叫做企業客戶的部分\n\n02:29.794 --> 02:56.487\n民眾並不是企業客戶但是民眾卻在傳送訊息的時候被認定為企業客戶如果說假設民眾有因為一次傳送超過50折的話那這部分我們會再請我們電信協會那您覺得在溝通的過程中大約民眾不管是在學術、喜宴或是活動邀請上的這一種方式甚至說他們在有獎徵打或是在比賽票選的時候那他們在這種的用表單的方式傳遞的時候\n\n02:57.788 --> 03:20.732\n那大約是可以用到簡訊提升到多少則數才不會去擾民目前的話因為我們過去我們有統計統計過的結果了大概一般我們一般一般正常的話特殊情形當然例外了那正常情況大概一天發到50則是差不多超過就是一般人的這種的使用習慣那如果說假設你一次真的有一次要發送到50則以上的話\n\n03:21.994 --> 03:23.238\n通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管\n\n03:28.925 --> 03:56.101\n那這個部分我本期還是要在這裡要建議NCC因為一般的民眾他們在實驗或是學術研究或是在票選他們並不知道說還要跟NCC或是還要跟電信業者講這一塊那我是覺得在這種的設定上那要合理商業歸商業民用歸民用那本期還是要建議說在這樣子的一個處理上不管在則述以及包括在宣導上還是與改進\n\n03:57.022 --> 04:26.094\n我們在這種常態性的規定之外是不是要做一些例外的這些設定這個就交給你來讓社會大眾知道另外再補充延續的剛才我們魯明哲委員所提到的NCC他編的這個律師訴訟費他從150萬再到710萬再到1000多萬那本席還是要請教那這裡面訴訟有關於是中天相關的訴訟案件大約就是多少件以及多少比例目前的話中天大概\n\n04:27.374 --> 04:28.756\n總共是26件那花了多少的訴訟費?\n\n04:43.011 --> 04:56.321\n不好意思,如果是從108年6月到113年9月30,那個拆除案的部分目前的金額是619萬7千元,那單件是平均12萬多?那本來是建議\n\n04:58.802 --> 05:25.753\n這個中天的這個換照的部分我在想NCC還是不要做其他的人的打手啊編的律師的訴訟費在強害這個媒體自由跟獨立性那本席還是建議說在這種的律師的訴訟費的使用還如果說今天來講是因為中天關台之後還不斷的往上編之後本席來講這樣子的律師訴訟費跟這種打手行為還是極不合理\n\n05:27.694 --> 05:40.680\n在我們不以換照之前其實就有陸續的輸送在進行這是不斷的提高這個看得出來的數據啦當然沒關係這就檢討啦好不好謝謝好謝謝那我接著要請那個我們陳靜德陳主委請工程會陳主委\n\n05:45.547 --> 06:09.742\n本席在這裡還是感謝還是感謝對於我們南投財務重建的協助那在預算出的質詢力上都非常的質詢力非常的有成效但是本席還是針對剛才大家持續討論的不管是恐犯期或者是包括申訴審議委員會名單那以及包括諮詢委員會的名單本席在這裡還是要跟主委以及包括工程會來討論\n\n06:12.404 --> 06:33.247\n其實剛才在提案的部分都有在聽都有在了解其實今天像國策顧問還有行政院顧問、縣政顧問到施工所顧問那其他都是公開資訊那如果說今天來講在公共程委員會他的所謂的諮詢委員那他為何無法公開\n\n06:34.108 --> 07:01.117\n我跟委員報告就是說申訴委員啊申訴委員的功能有申訴功能所以等同書院所以他有公開那這個諮詢委員部分那麼當事人如果他不同意公開我們也沒有辦法公開我們必須去徵詢這個諮詢委員的意見主委這其實我剛才聽也都聽很久了這三個小時都在聽這個相關的訊息那本席在這裡還是要建議啊\n\n07:01.917 --> 07:25.178\n那不管是政府機關在這個諮詢委員他其實都像是一個顧問性質不管他是案件記酬也好或是有幾職顧問因為像現任顧問或是包括許多的現任顧問有有幾職也有無幾職義務職那如果說像諮詢委員的話他如果在機關來講他沒有辦法去做公開的話那其實反而成為一種黑箱\n\n07:26.019 --> 07:50.160\n那其實今天的諮詢委員他應該是一個榮譽的事情那如果把這樣子的一個諮詢委員他能夠讓社會大眾了解的話也更強化了政府機關的一個公信力或是包括他要諮詢的管道那如果說今天來講沒有公開變成說公家機關就成為要諮詢的管道或唯一的窗口的時候反而任何的\n\n07:51.601 --> 08:12.080\n關說的壓力會變得集中在公務員手上今天成為諮詢委員本來就不應該成為關說的窗口但是諮詢委員本來就有一個他專業角色的公正性如果說連地方的調解委員會他都是公開訊息我相信能夠擔任諮詢委員就應該是經得起考驗\n\n08:12.981 --> 08:32.432\n那我也相信不管是以前的主委當然您擔任主委的時候所聘任的諮詢委員他們都應該要經得起考驗那這個相信也沒有問題所以本席還在這裡說出就是希望能夠把這個諮詢委員會的名單還有六十名單給交通委員會的委員做一份參考\n\n08:33.072 --> 09:00.350\n我們回去徵詢諮詢委員的意願不過這沒有公開這件事情並不是我就任以來才不公開我知道是以前一直以來所以我就說這些諮詢委員的責任不一定說是在於說誰而是在於說今天是一路以來聘下來的那到底他適不適任以及說包括他是不是有被討論的但是我覺得至少今天的諮詢委員都應該是為這個工程會加分\n\n09:01.030 --> 09:20.003\n那不僅是工程會包括各部會相關的諮詢文其實也應該要公開因為這種是一個榮譽職嘛那也是為政府機關在協助的角色嘛那在今天本來來講他就不用擔心說他會不會成為關說的窗口因為他本來就應該具備他的公正性在\n\n09:20.723 --> 09:44.668\n那也不應該讓公家機關的公務員來背負著任何被諮詢的時候被人家質疑的一個罪所以本期還是建議不僅是其他部會包括工程會可以針對諮詢委員在一個月內還徵詢完了之後還就做公開那另外不願意公開的諮詢委員我們也要慎重的來思考他不願意被公開的原因在哪裡謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.095,"end":10.376,"text":"謝謝召委那有請NCC請NCC黃祖密委員長主委長那延續蔡啟昌委員所提的題目那本辦公室有接到一些陳情電話那就是針對這個NCC實施這個簡訊發送的實名制登錄政策11月18號之後那"},{"start":35.023,"end":55.837,"text":"有些鄉親他們在傳送這個喜宴的登記啊那他們是用Google表單他們到時候傳了之後他們到時候就沒有辦法那包括那個學生學校研究生他們在做這個問卷調查在量化的部分那他們傳送了之後那同樣的話就被認為是詐騙訊息"},{"start":58.078,"end":84.87,"text":"那因為在這個要符合白名班的規範才能夠使用那但是一般民眾他們在使用這種訊息發送還附帶這個縮短連結那他們其實並不是所謂的商業企業但是卻導致這個第三方平台過過表達訊息發送的時候他就被擋下就被認為是詐騙那關鍵在於簡訊中的網址DNS他這樣子被認定上他沒有通過白名單的認證"},{"start":86.01,"end":107.324,"text":"那今天當然說NCC在處理相關的訊息跟措施他是希望防詐打詐那我們都認同但是在這樣子的措施之下卻導致一般的民生也好包括學術也好在這個訊息的傳遞上還就變成沒有辦法符合規定而無法傳送那這個問題小結下怎麼解決"},{"start":110.247,"end":124.689,"text":"跟委員報告,首先呢,大概就是,我想那個,這個措施實際上是一個目前看來是一個還OK的措施了那現在問題是在執行的技術上面啦,我們有待精進啦特別是說那個一般民眾的這個50折的部分的話"},{"start":125.41,"end":148.866,"text":"如果說就是我們也不停的一直在透過各式各樣的途徑跟當事人也請電信公司就是再詢問一下如果假設一般民眾有在同時一次要發送50則以上的簡訊的話那他務必要在後端要去做好KYC你要做好KYC的話他還是可以發送了那委員您在提的是另外一端叫做企業客戶的部分"},{"start":149.794,"end":176.487,"text":"民眾並不是企業客戶但是民眾卻在傳送訊息的時候被認定為企業客戶如果說假設民眾有因為一次傳送超過50折的話那這部分我們會再請我們電信協會那您覺得在溝通的過程中大約民眾不管是在學術、喜宴或是活動邀請上的這一種方式甚至說他們在有獎徵打或是在比賽票選的時候那他們在這種的用表單的方式傳遞的時候"},{"start":177.788,"end":200.732,"text":"那大約是可以用到簡訊提升到多少則數才不會去擾民目前的話因為我們過去我們有統計統計過的結果了大概一般我們一般一般正常的話特殊情形當然例外了那正常情況大概一天發到50則是差不多超過就是一般人的這種的使用習慣那如果說假設你一次真的有一次要發送到50則以上的話"},{"start":201.994,"end":203.238,"text":"通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管"},{"start":208.925,"end":236.101,"text":"那這個部分我本期還是要在這裡要建議NCC因為一般的民眾他們在實驗或是學術研究或是在票選他們並不知道說還要跟NCC或是還要跟電信業者講這一塊那我是覺得在這種的設定上那要合理商業歸商業民用歸民用那本期還是要建議說在這樣子的一個處理上不管在則述以及包括在宣導上還是與改進"},{"start":237.022,"end":266.094,"text":"我們在這種常態性的規定之外是不是要做一些例外的這些設定這個就交給你來讓社會大眾知道另外再補充延續的剛才我們魯明哲委員所提到的NCC他編的這個律師訴訟費他從150萬再到710萬再到1000多萬那本席還是要請教那這裡面訴訟有關於是中天相關的訴訟案件大約就是多少件以及多少比例目前的話中天大概"},{"start":267.374,"end":268.756,"text":"總共是26件那花了多少的訴訟費?"},{"start":283.011,"end":296.321,"text":"不好意思,如果是從108年6月到113年9月30,那個拆除案的部分目前的金額是619萬7千元,那單件是平均12萬多?那本來是建議"},{"start":298.802,"end":325.753,"text":"這個中天的這個換照的部分我在想NCC還是不要做其他的人的打手啊編的律師的訴訟費在強害這個媒體自由跟獨立性那本席還是建議說在這種的律師的訴訟費的使用還如果說今天來講是因為中天關台之後還不斷的往上編之後本席來講這樣子的律師訴訟費跟這種打手行為還是極不合理"},{"start":327.694,"end":340.68,"text":"在我們不以換照之前其實就有陸續的輸送在進行這是不斷的提高這個看得出來的數據啦當然沒關係這就檢討啦好不好謝謝好謝謝那我接著要請那個我們陳靜德陳主委請工程會陳主委"},{"start":345.547,"end":369.742,"text":"本席在這裡還是感謝還是感謝對於我們南投財務重建的協助那在預算出的質詢力上都非常的質詢力非常的有成效但是本席還是針對剛才大家持續討論的不管是恐犯期或者是包括申訴審議委員會名單那以及包括諮詢委員會的名單本席在這裡還是要跟主委以及包括工程會來討論"},{"start":372.404,"end":393.247,"text":"其實剛才在提案的部分都有在聽都有在了解其實今天像國策顧問還有行政院顧問、縣政顧問到施工所顧問那其他都是公開資訊那如果說今天來講在公共程委員會他的所謂的諮詢委員那他為何無法公開"},{"start":394.108,"end":421.117,"text":"我跟委員報告就是說申訴委員啊申訴委員的功能有申訴功能所以等同書院所以他有公開那這個諮詢委員部分那麼當事人如果他不同意公開我們也沒有辦法公開我們必須去徵詢這個諮詢委員的意見主委這其實我剛才聽也都聽很久了這三個小時都在聽這個相關的訊息那本席在這裡還是要建議啊"},{"start":421.917,"end":445.178,"text":"那不管是政府機關在這個諮詢委員他其實都像是一個顧問性質不管他是案件記酬也好或是有幾職顧問因為像現任顧問或是包括許多的現任顧問有有幾職也有無幾職義務職那如果說像諮詢委員的話他如果在機關來講他沒有辦法去做公開的話那其實反而成為一種黑箱"},{"start":446.019,"end":470.16,"text":"那其實今天的諮詢委員他應該是一個榮譽的事情那如果把這樣子的一個諮詢委員他能夠讓社會大眾了解的話也更強化了政府機關的一個公信力或是包括他要諮詢的管道那如果說今天來講沒有公開變成說公家機關就成為要諮詢的管道或唯一的窗口的時候反而任何的"},{"start":471.601,"end":492.08,"text":"關說的壓力會變得集中在公務員手上今天成為諮詢委員本來就不應該成為關說的窗口但是諮詢委員本來就有一個他專業角色的公正性如果說連地方的調解委員會他都是公開訊息我相信能夠擔任諮詢委員就應該是經得起考驗"},{"start":492.981,"end":512.432,"text":"那我也相信不管是以前的主委當然您擔任主委的時候所聘任的諮詢委員他們都應該要經得起考驗那這個相信也沒有問題所以本席還在這裡說出就是希望能夠把這個諮詢委員會的名單還有六十名單給交通委員會的委員做一份參考"},{"start":513.072,"end":540.35,"text":"我們回去徵詢諮詢委員的意願不過這沒有公開這件事情並不是我就任以來才不公開我知道是以前一直以來所以我就說這些諮詢委員的責任不一定說是在於說誰而是在於說今天是一路以來聘下來的那到底他適不適任以及說包括他是不是有被討論的但是我覺得至少今天的諮詢委員都應該是為這個工程會加分"},{"start":541.03,"end":560.003,"text":"那不僅是工程會包括各部會相關的諮詢文其實也應該要公開因為這種是一個榮譽職嘛那也是為政府機關在協助的角色嘛那在今天本來來講他就不用擔心說他會不會成為關說的窗口因為他本來就應該具備他的公正性在"},{"start":560.723,"end":584.668,"text":"那也不應該讓公家機關的公務員來背負著任何被諮詢的時候被人家質疑的一個罪所以本期還是建議不僅是其他部會包括工程會可以針對諮詢委員在一個月內還徵詢完了之後還就做公開那另外不願意公開的諮詢委員我們也要慎重的來思考他不願意被公開的原因在哪裡謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":916,"blocks":[["游委員顥：（12時17分）謝謝召委，有請NCC。"],["主席：請NCC黃主秘。"],["黃主任秘書文哲：委員早。"],["游委員顥：主秘早。延續剛才蔡其昌委員所提的題目，本辦公室有接到一些陳情電話，就是針對NCC在11月18號之後實施簡訊發送實名制登錄政策，有些鄉親在傳送喜宴的登記是用Google表單，他們傳了之後，到時候就沒有辦法，包括學生、學校研究生在做問卷調查、在量化的部分，他們傳送了之後，同樣被認為是詐騙訊息，因為要符合白名單的規範才能夠使用。一般民眾在使用這種訊息發送，還要附帶縮短連結，他們其實並不是所謂的商業企業，但卻導致第三方平臺在Google表單訊息發送的時候就被擋下來，就被認為是詐騙，關鍵在於簡訊中的網址DNS，在認定上，它沒有通過白名單的認證。當然今天NCC處理相關訊息跟措施是希望防詐、打詐，我們都認同，但是在這樣子的措施之下，卻導致一般的民生也好，包括學術也好，在訊息的傳遞上就變成沒有辦法符合規定而無法傳送，這個問題怎麼解決？"],["黃主任秘書文哲：跟委員報告，首先我想這個措施目前看起來是一個還OK的措施，那現在問題是在執行的技術上面，我們有待精進。特別是一般民眾的50則的部分，我們也不停地一直在透過各式各樣的途徑跟當事人，也請電信公司再詢問一下。假設一般民眾有在同時一次要發送50則以上的簡訊的話，那他務必要在後端做好KYC。你只要做好KYC的話，他還是可以發送。委員您在提的是另外一段，叫做企業客戶的部分。"],["游委員顥：當然民眾並不是企業客戶啊！"],["黃主任秘書文哲：是，我知道。"],["游委員顥：但是民眾卻在傳送訊息的時候被認定為企業客戶啊！"],["黃主任秘書文哲：是。假設民眾有一次傳送超過50則的話，這部分我們會再請我們電信事業……"],["游委員顥：那您覺得在溝通的過程中，民眾不管是在學術、喜宴或是活動邀請上的方式，甚至在有獎徵答或是在比賽票選的時候，如果他們用這種表單的方式傳遞，大約是可以簡訊提升到多少則數，才不會去擾民？"],["黃主任秘書文哲：根據我們過去有統計過的結果，特殊情形當然例外，一般正常的話，大概一天發到50則是差不多一般人的使用習慣。如果說你一次真的有要發送到50則以上的話，你可以打電話到客服那邊去，跟電信公司的客服講說這一次是不是讓我可以開通到50則以上。"],["游委員顥：這個部分的話，本席還是要在這裡建議NCC，因為一般的民眾他們在喜宴、學術研究，或是在票選，他們並不知道說還要跟NCC或是還要跟電信業者講這一塊。我是覺得在這種的設定上要合理，商業歸商業，民用歸民用，本席還是建議在這樣的處理上，不管在則數或在宣導上，還是予以改進。"],["黃主任秘書文哲：我們在這種常態性的規定之外，是不是要做一些例外的設定，我再跟……"],["游委員顥：沒關係，這個就交給你來讓社會大眾知道。"],["黃主任秘書文哲：是。"],["游委員顥：另外再補充，延續剛才魯明哲委員所提到的，NCC編的律師訴訟費從150萬再到710萬，再到一千多萬，本席還是要請教，這裡面是中天相關的訴訟案件大約多少件以及多少比例？"],["黃主任秘書文哲：目前的話，中天現在總共是26件。"],["游委員顥：花了多少的訴訟費？"],["林處長慧玲：不好意思！如果是從108年6月到113年9月30日，裁處案的部分目前的金額是619萬7,000元，單件是平均十二萬多。"],["游委員顥：那本席還是建議，就是中天換照的部分，我在想NCC還是不要做其他人的打手，編了律師的訴訟費，再戕害媒體自由跟獨立性。本席建議，在這種律師訴訟費的使用，如果今天是因為中天關臺之後不斷地往上編，本席認為這樣子的律師訴訟費跟這種打手行為還是極不合理。"],["黃主任秘書文哲：不是！不是！在我們不予換照之前，其實就有陸陸續續的訴訟在進行。"],["游委員顥：沒有！這是不斷地提高，這個是看得出來的數據。沒關係，這就檢討啦！好不好？"],["黃主任秘書文哲：是。"],["游委員顥：謝謝。我接著要請陳金德主委。"],["主席：請工程會陳主委。"],["陳主任委員金德：委員好。"],["游委員顥：主委好。本席在這裡要再次感謝對於南投災後重建的協助，預算書的執行率都非常地有成效。但是針對剛才大家持續討論的，不管是孔繁琦，或者是包括申訴審議委員會的名單，以及諮詢委員會的名單，本席在這裡還是要跟主委以及工程會來討論。本席剛才在提案的部分都有在聽、有在瞭解。其實今天像是國策顧問、行政院顧問，還有縣政顧問，到市公所顧問都是公開資訊，那在公共工程委員會所謂的諮詢委員，為何他無法公開？"],["陳主任委員金德：我跟委員報告，申訴委員的功能有申訴功能，等同於訴願，所以他有公開。那諮詢委員部分，當事人如果他不同意公開，我們也沒有辦法公開，我們必須去徵詢諮詢委員的意見。"],["游委員顥：主委，這個其實我剛才也都聽很久啦！這3個小時都在聽這些相關的訊息。本席在這裡還是要建議，政府機關的諮詢委員其實就像是一個顧問性質，不管他是按件計酬或是有給職顧問，像縣政顧問或者是包括許多的行政顧問，有包括有給職，也有義務無給職。如果機關的諮詢委員沒有辦法公開的話，那其實反而成為一種黑箱。今天的諮詢委員應該是一個榮譽的事情，如果把這樣子的諮詢委員能夠讓社會大眾瞭解的話，也更強化了政府機關的公信力，或是包括他要諮詢的管道。","如果他沒有公開，讓公家機關成為要諮詢的管道或唯一窗口的時候，反而任何關說的壓力就會變成集中在公務員身上。今天成為諮詢委員本來就不應該成為關說的窗口，但是諮詢委員本來就有一個他專業角色的公正性。如果說連地方的調解委員會都是公開訊息，我相信能夠擔任諮詢委員就應該是經得起考驗的。我也相信不管是以前的主委，到您擔任主委之後所聘任的諮詢委員，他們都應該要經得起考驗，這個相信也沒有問題。所以本席還是在這裡說出，就是希望能夠把諮詢委員會60位的名單提供給交通委員會的委員做參考。"],["陳主任委員金德：我們回去徵詢諮詢委員的意願，不過沒有公開這件事情並不是我就任以來才有的。"],["游委員顥：我知道，是以前一直以來。所以我就說這些諮詢委員的責任不一定是在於誰，而是在於是一路聘下來的，那到底他適不適任，以及包括他是不是有被討論，但是我覺得至少今天的諮詢委員都應該是為工程會加分，不僅是工程會，包括各部會相關的諮詢委員其實也應該要公開，因為這種是一個榮譽職，也是為政府機關在協助的角色。他本來就不用擔心說他會不會成為關說的窗口，因為他本來就應該具備他的公正性；那也不應該讓公家機關的公務員背負著任何被諮詢的時候，還被人家質疑的罪。所以本席還是建議，不僅是其他部會，包括工程會在內，可以針對諮詢委員，在一個月內徵詢完了之後就做公開。另外不願意公開的諮詢委員，我們也要慎重地來思考他不願意被公開的原因在哪裡，謝謝。"],["陳主任委員金德：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝游顥委員發言。","接下來邀請邱若華委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":134,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-12","speakers":["陳素月","林國成","李昆澤","魯明哲","林沛祥","許智傑","林俊憲","黃健豪","廖先翔","徐富癸","林淑芬","蔡其昌","游顥","邱若華","何欣純","賴士葆","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","林月琴","羅智強","葉元之","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","王鴻薇"],"page_start":55,"meetingDate":["2024-11-28"],"gazette_id":"11310801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於行政院公共工程委員會單位預算；二、審查114年度中央\n政府總預算案關於國家通訊傳播委員會單位預算；三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位\n預算非營業部分關於國家通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播監督管理基金預算；四、審查114年度中\n央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於國家通訊傳播委員會主管有線廣播電視事業發展基\n金預算；五、審查113 年度中央政府總預算關於國家通訊傳播委員會預算凍結書面報告案計 2 案\n（第一案至第四案僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11310801_00002"}}}