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635.224, \"end\": 635.244, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,531 --> 00:00:04,407\n謝主席邀請工程會主委請工程會陳主委\n\n2\n00:00:11,094 --> 00:00:25,024\n主任好辛苦了我們來討論114年的預算在你公共工程企劃以及法規業務的部分你為了要健全工程採購法規的制度那你編列了156萬4千元那比這個103年度是增加了這個\n\n3\n00:00:34,671 --> 00:00:35,311\n委員會主管通訊傳播監\n\n4\n00:00:57,941 --> 00:01:05,185\n但是我們看到這個成交也就是說工程會的資料去顯示我們5000萬以上的工程採購從108年開始你每一年決標千餘件一千多件\n\n5\n00:01:13,490 --> 00:01:23,455\n那你曾經留廢標的比例以及未在兩次內決標的比例呢108年度是69.27以及19.76但是到了111年它上升了它上升了什麼呢?它從69.27到78.04從19.76到了多少?到了26.32\n\n6\n00:01:40,123 --> 00:02:06,241\n所以主委像這樣的一個情況我們看到數字告訴你我也看到了113年8月底就今年度的到8月底你部分這個工程採購的流費標以及還沒有決標的那有在上升那你認為這個部分要怎麼樣去應對讓我們怎麼去調整讓我們的公共工程能夠更加的順利推動請說明\n\n7\n00:02:09,629 --> 00:02:25,180\n分成兩部分第一部分就是健全工程採購法規的制度我們近來開始著手在這個採購法的修正比方說過去投標一定要三家以上那未滿三家往往就一直流標\n\n8\n00:02:26,021 --> 00:02:44,333\n本席了解,現在就一家,第一次三家,第二次就一家。所以本席才告訴你,那既然是第二次就一家,但是你味覺飄著,它還是在上升啊。表示你改變了這個制度,你並沒有去把這個工程順暢去提升啊。\n\n9\n00:02:45,510 --> 00:03:10,881\n所以我們這個有關於法規的修正需要一點預算大概86萬新增那採購法要廣徵各界意見要辦說明會等等這個是採購法的修正其中有涉及到流標或絕標的一些規範來降低這個流標的次數然後進行採購制度所以這一點本席也是希望你書面資料給本席你的精準方案\n\n10\n00:03:11,741 --> 00:03:33,619\n因為我們實際上你改變了制度以前要三次三家通通三家第四次才可以這一家來協議但是現在我們為了要讓它順暢我們第二次就是只要有一家就得但是我們的數字還是不好看的啊所以表示你這個制度還是沒有辦法真正去\n\n11\n00:03:34,540 --> 00:03:48,757\n解決目前的困境我們目前的公共建設、公共工程它能夠發包執行之前要往前推好幾年那往前推好幾年有可行性、連就、有綜合規劃非常了解,所以針對本席的提問也就是說\n\n12\n00:03:51,921 --> 00:04:14,062\n目前我們的制度雖然有改改了一段時間執行一段時間但是本席告訴你數字還不是那麼順暢你去研明方案你也點頭也知道這個困難當然不可能單一元素一定有很多的因子存在所以你們去通盤了解怎麼樣可以讓我們的政策\n\n13\n00:04:15,003 --> 00:04:17,346\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n\n14\n00:04:34,144 --> 00:04:37,087\n審查114年度中央政府總預算案審查114年度中央政府總預算案審查114年度中央政府總預算案審查114年度中央政府總預算案\n\n15\n00:04:56,244 --> 00:05:10,015\n那所以本席要請教的是因為你目前是電子採購導入0信任的這個驗證機制他目前還是有這個對象限制對不對\n\n16\n00:05:14,754 --> 00:05:32,846\n也就是本席要強調的你現在運用這個你適用的對象是有限的所以你還必須是去用傳統模式共同混合來運作那這個會不會影響到他的治安的安全混合在一起會不會影響到治安的安全\n\n17\n00:05:33,286 --> 00:05:51,636\n所以本席要問的也就是說當發揮網路的這個治安防護的成效那你們會不會在這樣的情況之下會有一點矛盾點我們一定要治安但是你要用傳統式的混合機制去做那這個成效到底會怎麼樣請出說明\n\n18\n00:05:52,785 --> 00:06:12,913\n是跟委員說明齁那其實我們知我們都是做這個零信任導入其實就是為了治安那治安的部分呢其實我們是一層一層疊加上去的那那個訴罰部他們在導入這個零信任的時候他們今年是有初步的輔導我們各部位來導入那其實他導入那你編列了700萬啊\n\n19\n00:06:13,613 --> 00:06:42,407\n對,它先期導入那其實它要提供我們一些user的一個用處但是後期其實還是要靠我們自己來做全面性的一個處理所以我們後面接續的對於你的單位講這樣就對了因為你如果只有靠書法部你目前能夠做的也就是傳統式跟現在推動當然這個我們要推動行訊院的機制我們要推動但是關鍵者還是在你自己因為它現在的這個對象是有限制的\n\n20\n00:06:43,047 --> 00:06:54,335\n有限財有盲點所以這個議題是我們一定要努力推動但是他的盲點在你的單位你掌控的全國的公共工程這個你必須要專案用心去做\n\n21\n00:06:55,242 --> 00:07:14,495\n是不是應該要如此?你們要有你自己的KPI你自己的步驟好不好?你把你的KPI你的步驟告訴這個順便資料給本席我們一起來看著你的KPI我們一起來努力這個零信任的這個機制那最後一個議題我要請教我要請教\n\n22\n00:07:16,656 --> 00:07:41,864\n公共工程委員會裡頭的業務以及它你的公共規範、認證、整合、維護、推廣、研發你的新編的資料庫你是350萬那你要建置開發公共工程經費的網頁及碳排的估算你是1000萬現在所有的人都希望他在能夠公共工程提供的工料的這個預算\n\n23\n00:07:43,524 --> 00:08:01,078\n那決標的價格給機關單位來參考因為你這個基礎數是非常的重要這個平台所以本想要請教現在所有的同業業者你很煩惱啊我到底沒碳排我是要怎麼計算未知數、環境部你的碳藍圖還沒出來\n\n24\n00:08:02,739 --> 00:08:25,252\n碳費、碳費率也初步講一個答案就是說5年後要到1816倍那我整個整個要來飆的人他會害怕啊又碰到通盆啊又碰到人工掃啊這一些都是因子所以主委像這樣的一個情況之下第一個你的這個碳排氣數\n\n25\n00:08:27,313 --> 00:08:46,094\n是不是在什麼時候可以正確出來你讓他得標者有所依據啊因為你政府如果關鍵沒有出來農耗沒有出來我根本就不知道要怎麼標嘛當然你的位決一定更多嘛非標委會越多啊請說明什麼時候會出來他們的技術什麼時候會出來那我們在建制中啦\n\n26\n00:08:47,836 --> 00:09:00,329\n關於碳費,碳費它環境部在針對一些大戶,比如說煉鋼、石化、水泥一般公共工程還不至於有繳交碳費的問題不過這個建築我請企劃處處長來跟我們...未來會有,因為時間的關係主席站上來,主委我跟您討論一個原則\n\n27\n00:09:04,714 --> 00:09:28,056\n你的資料庫因為你也編列預算1000萬然後350萬我非常的希望能夠建置完成但是也就是說我們2050年近鄰碳排的這個目標那你政府應該要讓讓讓民眾有所依據啊所以本就請問你一個也就是你們現在沒有明定\n\n28\n00:09:28,757 --> 00:09:53,955\n沒有明定你的編碼正確的這個正確率進階的目標你現在沒出來啊那你現在編了這支預算是不是告訴我明年114年你可以出來你可以出來好那我們跟委員報告齁因為整個碳排的這個項目很多啦那我們根據明年的預算會把這個碳排放的估算系統初步建置完成\n\n29\n00:09:54,175 --> 00:10:18,068\n初步建制完成也就是你必須要明定編碼的正確率的進階目標那你讓要標的人才有所依據嘛對不對你也把你這1000萬以及你資料庫的這個委庫的這個服務費的你的350萬你這一些一定有你的指標你的KPI你預計要怎麼做\n\n30\n00:10:19,288 --> 00:10:35,244\n你順便資料給本席好不好那原則上也就是在明年一個答案就是說明年你的攤牌的這個係數你的這個編碼正確率的進階目標明年初步應該會出來是不是好加油好謝謝楊瓊英委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n531\t4407\t謝主席 邀請工程會主委請工程會陳主委\n11094\t25024\t主任好辛苦了我們來討論114年的預算在你公共工程企劃以及法規業務的部分你為了要健全工程採購法規的制度那你編列了156萬4千元那比這個103年度是增加了這個\n34671\t35311\t委員會主管通訊傳播監\n57941\t65185\t但是我們看到這個成交也就是說工程會的資料去顯示我們5000萬以上的工程採購從108年開始你每一年決標千餘件一千多件\n73490\t83455\t那你曾經留廢標的比例以及未在兩次內決標的比例呢108年度是69.27以及19.76但是到了111年它上升了它上升了什麼呢?它從69.27到78.04從19.76到了多少?到了26.32\n100123\t126241\t所以主委像這樣的一個情況我們看到數字告訴你我也看到了113年8月底就今年度的到8月底你部分這個工程採購的流費標以及還沒有決標的那有在上升那你認為這個部分要怎麼樣去應對讓我們怎麼去調整讓我們的公共工程能夠更加的順利推動請說明\n129629\t145180\t分成兩部分第一部分就是健全工程採購法規的制度我們近來開始著手在這個採購法的修正比方說過去投標一定要三家以上那未滿三家往往就一直流標\n146021\t164333\t本席了解,現在就一家,第一次三家,第二次就一家。所以本席才告訴你,那既然是第二次就一家,但是你味覺飄著,它還是在上升啊。表示你改變了這個制度,你並沒有去把這個工程順暢去提升啊。\n165510\t190881\t所以我們這個有關於法規的修正需要一點預算大概86萬新增那採購法要廣徵各界意見要辦說明會等等這個是採購法的修正其中有涉及到流標或絕標的一些規範來降低這個流標的次數然後進行採購制度所以這一點本席也是希望你書面資料給本席你的精準方案\n191741\t213619\t因為我們實際上你改變了制度以前要三次三家通通三家第四次才可以這一家來協議但是現在我們為了要讓它順暢我們第二次就是只要有一家就得但是我們的數字還是不好看的啊所以表示你這個制度還是沒有辦法真正去\n214540\t228757\t解決目前的困境我們目前的公共建設、公共工程它能夠發包執行之前要往前推好幾年那往前推好幾年有可行性、連就、有綜合規劃非常了解,所以針對本席的提問也就是說\n231921\t254062\t目前我們的制度雖然有改改了一段時間執行一段時間但是本席告訴你數字還不是那麼順暢你去研明方案你也點頭也知道這個困難當然不可能單一元素一定有很多的因子存在所以你們去通盤了解怎麼樣可以讓我們的政策\n255003\t257346\t三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n274144\t277087\t審查114年度中央政府總預算案審查114年度中央政府總預算案審查114年度中央政府總預算案審查114年度中央政府總預算案\n296244\t310015\t那所以本席要請教的是因為你目前是電子採購導入0信任的這個驗證機制他目前還是有這個對象限制對不對\n314754\t332846\t也就是本席要強調的你現在運用這個你適用的對象是有限的所以你還必須是去用傳統模式共同混合來運作那這個會不會影響到他的治安的安全混合在一起會不會影響到治安的安全\n333286\t351636\t所以本席要問的也就是說當發揮網路的這個治安防護的成效那你們會不會在這樣的情況之下會有一點矛盾點我們一定要治安但是你要用傳統式的混合機制去做那這個成效到底會怎麼樣請出說明\n352785\t372913\t是跟委員說明齁那其實我們知我們都是做這個零信任導入其實就是為了治安那治安的部分呢其實我們是一層一層疊加上去的那那個訴罰部他們在導入這個零信任的時候他們今年是有初步的輔導我們各部位來導入那其實他導入那你編列了700萬啊\n373613\t402407\t對,它先期導入那其實它要提供我們一些user的一個用處但是後期其實還是要靠我們自己來做全面性的一個處理所以我們後面接續的對於你的單位講這樣就對了因為你如果只有靠書法部你目前能夠做的也就是傳統式跟現在推動當然這個我們要推動行訊院的機制我們要推動但是關鍵者還是在你自己因為它現在的這個對象是有限制的\n403047\t414335\t有限財有盲點所以這個議題是我們一定要努力推動但是他的盲點在你的單位你掌控的全國的公共工程這個你必須要專案用心去做\n415242\t434495\t是不是應該要如此?你們要有你自己的KPI你自己的步驟好不好?你把你的KPI你的步驟告訴這個順便資料給本席我們一起來看著你的KPI我們一起來努力這個零信任的這個機制那最後一個議題我要請教我要請教\n436656\t461864\t公共工程委員會裡頭的業務以及它你的公共規範、認證、整合、維護、推廣、研發你的新編的資料庫你是350萬那你要建置開發公共工程經費的網頁及碳排的估算你是1000萬現在所有的人都希望他在能夠公共工程提供的工料的這個預算\n463524\t481078\t那決標的價格給機關單位來參考因為你這個基礎數是非常的重要這個平台所以本想要請教現在所有的同業業者你很煩惱啊我到底沒碳排我是要怎麼計算未知數、環境部你的碳藍圖還沒出來\n482739\t505252\t碳費、碳費率也初步講一個答案就是說5年後要到1816倍那我整個整個要來飆的人他會害怕啊又碰到通盆啊又碰到人工掃啊這一些都是因子所以主委像這樣的一個情況之下第一個你的這個碳排氣數\n507313\t526094\t是不是在什麼時候可以正確出來你讓他得標者有所依據啊因為你政府如果關鍵沒有出來農耗沒有出來我根本就不知道要怎麼標嘛當然你的位決一定更多嘛非標委會越多啊請說明什麼時候會出來他們的技術什麼時候會出來那我們在建制中啦\n527836\t540329\t關於碳費,碳費它環境部在針對一些大戶,比如說煉鋼、石化、水泥一般公共工程還不至於有繳交碳費的問題不過這個建築我請企劃處處長來跟我們...未來會有,因為時間的關係主席站上來,主委我跟您討論一個原則\n544714\t568056\t你的資料庫因為你也編列預算1000萬然後350萬我非常的希望能夠建置完成但是也就是說我們2050年近鄰碳排的這個目標那你政府應該要讓讓讓民眾有所依據啊所以本就請問你一個也就是你們現在沒有明定\n568757\t593955\t沒有明定你的編碼正確的這個正確率進階的目標你現在沒出來啊那你現在編了這支預算是不是告訴我明年114年你可以出來你可以出來好那我們跟委員報告齁因為整個碳排的這個項目很多啦那我們根據明年的預算會把這個碳排放的估算系統初步建置完成\n594175\t618068\t初步建制完成也就是你必須要明定編碼的正確率的進階目標那你讓要標的人才有所依據嘛對不對你也把你這1000萬以及你資料庫的這個委庫的這個服務費的你的350萬你這一些一定有你的指標你的KPI你預計要怎麼做\n619288\t635244\t你順便資料給本席好不好那原則上也就是在明年一個答案就是說明年你的攤牌的這個係數你的這個編碼正確率的進階目標明年初步應該會出來是不是好加油好謝謝楊瓊英委員\n","txt":"謝主席 邀請工程會主委請工程會陳主委\n主任好辛苦了我們來討論114年的預算在你公共工程企劃以及法規業務的部分你為了要健全工程採購法規的制度那你編列了156萬4千元那比這個103年度是增加了這個\n委員會主管通訊傳播監\n但是我們看到這個成交也就是說工程會的資料去顯示我們5000萬以上的工程採購從108年開始你每一年決標千餘件一千多件\n那你曾經留廢標的比例以及未在兩次內決標的比例呢108年度是69.27以及19.76但是到了111年它上升了它上升了什麼呢?它從69.27到78.04從19.76到了多少?到了26.32\n所以主委像這樣的一個情況我們看到數字告訴你我也看到了113年8月底就今年度的到8月底你部分這個工程採購的流費標以及還沒有決標的那有在上升那你認為這個部分要怎麼樣去應對讓我們怎麼去調整讓我們的公共工程能夠更加的順利推動請說明\n分成兩部分第一部分就是健全工程採購法規的制度我們近來開始著手在這個採購法的修正比方說過去投標一定要三家以上那未滿三家往往就一直流標\n本席了解,現在就一家,第一次三家,第二次就一家。所以本席才告訴你,那既然是第二次就一家,但是你味覺飄著,它還是在上升啊。表示你改變了這個制度,你並沒有去把這個工程順暢去提升啊。\n所以我們這個有關於法規的修正需要一點預算大概86萬新增那採購法要廣徵各界意見要辦說明會等等這個是採購法的修正其中有涉及到流標或絕標的一些規範來降低這個流標的次數然後進行採購制度所以這一點本席也是希望你書面資料給本席你的精準方案\n因為我們實際上你改變了制度以前要三次三家通通三家第四次才可以這一家來協議但是現在我們為了要讓它順暢我們第二次就是只要有一家就得但是我們的數字還是不好看的啊所以表示你這個制度還是沒有辦法真正去\n解決目前的困境我們目前的公共建設、公共工程它能夠發包執行之前要往前推好幾年那往前推好幾年有可行性、連就、有綜合規劃非常了解,所以針對本席的提問也就是說\n目前我們的制度雖然有改改了一段時間執行一段時間但是本席告訴你數字還不是那麼順暢你去研明方案你也點頭也知道這個困難當然不可能單一元素一定有很多的因子存在所以你們去通盤了解怎麼樣可以讓我們的政策\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n審查114年度中央政府總預算案審查114年度中央政府總預算案審查114年度中央政府總預算案審查114年度中央政府總預算案\n那所以本席要請教的是因為你目前是電子採購導入0信任的這個驗證機制他目前還是有這個對象限制對不對\n也就是本席要強調的你現在運用這個你適用的對象是有限的所以你還必須是去用傳統模式共同混合來運作那這個會不會影響到他的治安的安全混合在一起會不會影響到治安的安全\n所以本席要問的也就是說當發揮網路的這個治安防護的成效那你們會不會在這樣的情況之下會有一點矛盾點我們一定要治安但是你要用傳統式的混合機制去做那這個成效到底會怎麼樣請出說明\n是跟委員說明齁那其實我們知我們都是做這個零信任導入其實就是為了治安那治安的部分呢其實我們是一層一層疊加上去的那那個訴罰部他們在導入這個零信任的時候他們今年是有初步的輔導我們各部位來導入那其實他導入那你編列了700萬啊\n對,它先期導入那其實它要提供我們一些user的一個用處但是後期其實還是要靠我們自己來做全面性的一個處理所以我們後面接續的對於你的單位講這樣就對了因為你如果只有靠書法部你目前能夠做的也就是傳統式跟現在推動當然這個我們要推動行訊院的機制我們要推動但是關鍵者還是在你自己因為它現在的這個對象是有限制的\n有限財有盲點所以這個議題是我們一定要努力推動但是他的盲點在你的單位你掌控的全國的公共工程這個你必須要專案用心去做\n是不是應該要如此?你們要有你自己的KPI你自己的步驟好不好?你把你的KPI你的步驟告訴這個順便資料給本席我們一起來看著你的KPI我們一起來努力這個零信任的這個機制那最後一個議題我要請教我要請教\n公共工程委員會裡頭的業務以及它你的公共規範、認證、整合、維護、推廣、研發你的新編的資料庫你是350萬那你要建置開發公共工程經費的網頁及碳排的估算你是1000萬現在所有的人都希望他在能夠公共工程提供的工料的這個預算\n那決標的價格給機關單位來參考因為你這個基礎數是非常的重要這個平台所以本想要請教現在所有的同業業者你很煩惱啊我到底沒碳排我是要怎麼計算未知數、環境部你的碳藍圖還沒出來\n碳費、碳費率也初步講一個答案就是說5年後要到1816倍那我整個整個要來飆的人他會害怕啊又碰到通盆啊又碰到人工掃啊這一些都是因子所以主委像這樣的一個情況之下第一個你的這個碳排氣數\n是不是在什麼時候可以正確出來你讓他得標者有所依據啊因為你政府如果關鍵沒有出來農耗沒有出來我根本就不知道要怎麼標嘛當然你的位決一定更多嘛非標委會越多啊請說明什麼時候會出來他們的技術什麼時候會出來那我們在建制中啦\n關於碳費,碳費它環境部在針對一些大戶,比如說煉鋼、石化、水泥一般公共工程還不至於有繳交碳費的問題不過這個建築我請企劃處處長來跟我們...未來會有,因為時間的關係主席站上來,主委我跟您討論一個原則\n你的資料庫因為你也編列預算1000萬然後350萬我非常的希望能夠建置完成但是也就是說我們2050年近鄰碳排的這個目標那你政府應該要讓讓讓民眾有所依據啊所以本就請問你一個也就是你們現在沒有明定\n沒有明定你的編碼正確的這個正確率進階的目標你現在沒出來啊那你現在編了這支預算是不是告訴我明年114年你可以出來你可以出來好那我們跟委員報告齁因為整個碳排的這個項目很多啦那我們根據明年的預算會把這個碳排放的估算系統初步建置完成\n初步建制完成也就是你必須要明定編碼的正確率的進階目標那你讓要標的人才有所依據嘛對不對你也把你這1000萬以及你資料庫的這個委庫的這個服務費的你的350萬你這一些一定有你的指標你的KPI你預計要怎麼做\n你順便資料給本席好不好那原則上也就是在明年一個答案就是說明年你的攤牌的這個係數你的這個編碼正確率的進階目標明年初步應該會出來是不是好加油好謝謝楊瓊英委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.531 --> 00:04.407\n謝主席邀請工程會主委請工程會陳主委\n\n00:11.094 --> 00:25.024\n主任好辛苦了我們來討論114年的預算在你公共工程企劃以及法規業務的部分你為了要健全工程採購法規的制度那你編列了156萬4千元那比這個103年度是增加了這個\n\n00:34.671 --> 00:35.311\n委員會主管通訊傳播監\n\n00:57.941 --> 01:05.185\n但是我們看到這個成交也就是說工程會的資料去顯示我們5000萬以上的工程採購從108年開始你每一年決標千餘件一千多件\n\n01:13.490 --> 01:23.455\n那你曾經留廢標的比例以及未在兩次內決標的比例呢108年度是69.27以及19.76但是到了111年它上升了它上升了什麼呢?它從69.27到78.04從19.76到了多少?到了26.32\n\n01:40.123 --> 02:06.241\n所以主委像這樣的一個情況我們看到數字告訴你我也看到了113年8月底就今年度的到8月底你部分這個工程採購的流費標以及還沒有決標的那有在上升那你認為這個部分要怎麼樣去應對讓我們怎麼去調整讓我們的公共工程能夠更加的順利推動請說明\n\n02:09.629 --> 02:25.180\n分成兩部分第一部分就是健全工程採購法規的制度我們近來開始著手在這個採購法的修正比方說過去投標一定要三家以上那未滿三家往往就一直流標\n\n02:26.021 --> 02:44.333\n本席了解,現在就一家,第一次三家,第二次就一家。所以本席才告訴你,那既然是第二次就一家,但是你味覺飄著,它還是在上升啊。表示你改變了這個制度,你並沒有去把這個工程順暢去提升啊。\n\n02:45.510 --> 03:10.881\n所以我們這個有關於法規的修正需要一點預算大概86萬新增那採購法要廣徵各界意見要辦說明會等等這個是採購法的修正其中有涉及到流標或絕標的一些規範來降低這個流標的次數然後進行採購制度所以這一點本席也是希望你書面資料給本席你的精準方案\n\n03:11.741 --> 03:33.619\n因為我們實際上你改變了制度以前要三次三家通通三家第四次才可以這一家來協議但是現在我們為了要讓它順暢我們第二次就是只要有一家就得但是我們的數字還是不好看的啊所以表示你這個制度還是沒有辦法真正去\n\n03:34.540 --> 03:48.757\n解決目前的困境我們目前的公共建設、公共工程它能夠發包執行之前要往前推好幾年那往前推好幾年有可行性、連就、有綜合規劃非常了解,所以針對本席的提問也就是說\n\n03:51.921 --> 04:14.062\n目前我們的制度雖然有改改了一段時間執行一段時間但是本席告訴你數字還不是那麼順暢你去研明方案你也點頭也知道這個困難當然不可能單一元素一定有很多的因子存在所以你們去通盤了解怎麼樣可以讓我們的政策\n\n04:15.003 --> 04:17.346\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n\n04:34.144 --> 04:37.087\n審查114年度中央政府總預算案審查114年度中央政府總預算案審查114年度中央政府總預算案審查114年度中央政府總預算案\n\n04:56.244 --> 05:10.015\n那所以本席要請教的是因為你目前是電子採購導入0信任的這個驗證機制他目前還是有這個對象限制對不對\n\n05:14.754 --> 05:32.846\n也就是本席要強調的你現在運用這個你適用的對象是有限的所以你還必須是去用傳統模式共同混合來運作那這個會不會影響到他的治安的安全混合在一起會不會影響到治安的安全\n\n05:33.286 --> 05:51.636\n所以本席要問的也就是說當發揮網路的這個治安防護的成效那你們會不會在這樣的情況之下會有一點矛盾點我們一定要治安但是你要用傳統式的混合機制去做那這個成效到底會怎麼樣請出說明\n\n05:52.785 --> 06:12.913\n是跟委員說明齁那其實我們知我們都是做這個零信任導入其實就是為了治安那治安的部分呢其實我們是一層一層疊加上去的那那個訴罰部他們在導入這個零信任的時候他們今年是有初步的輔導我們各部位來導入那其實他導入那你編列了700萬啊\n\n06:13.613 --> 06:42.407\n對,它先期導入那其實它要提供我們一些user的一個用處但是後期其實還是要靠我們自己來做全面性的一個處理所以我們後面接續的對於你的單位講這樣就對了因為你如果只有靠書法部你目前能夠做的也就是傳統式跟現在推動當然這個我們要推動行訊院的機制我們要推動但是關鍵者還是在你自己因為它現在的這個對象是有限制的\n\n06:43.047 --> 06:54.335\n有限財有盲點所以這個議題是我們一定要努力推動但是他的盲點在你的單位你掌控的全國的公共工程這個你必須要專案用心去做\n\n06:55.242 --> 07:14.495\n是不是應該要如此?你們要有你自己的KPI你自己的步驟好不好?你把你的KPI你的步驟告訴這個順便資料給本席我們一起來看著你的KPI我們一起來努力這個零信任的這個機制那最後一個議題我要請教我要請教\n\n07:16.656 --> 07:41.864\n公共工程委員會裡頭的業務以及它你的公共規範、認證、整合、維護、推廣、研發你的新編的資料庫你是350萬那你要建置開發公共工程經費的網頁及碳排的估算你是1000萬現在所有的人都希望他在能夠公共工程提供的工料的這個預算\n\n07:43.524 --> 08:01.078\n那決標的價格給機關單位來參考因為你這個基礎數是非常的重要這個平台所以本想要請教現在所有的同業業者你很煩惱啊我到底沒碳排我是要怎麼計算未知數、環境部你的碳藍圖還沒出來\n\n08:02.739 --> 08:25.252\n碳費、碳費率也初步講一個答案就是說5年後要到1816倍那我整個整個要來飆的人他會害怕啊又碰到通盆啊又碰到人工掃啊這一些都是因子所以主委像這樣的一個情況之下第一個你的這個碳排氣數\n\n08:27.313 --> 08:46.094\n是不是在什麼時候可以正確出來你讓他得標者有所依據啊因為你政府如果關鍵沒有出來農耗沒有出來我根本就不知道要怎麼標嘛當然你的位決一定更多嘛非標委會越多啊請說明什麼時候會出來他們的技術什麼時候會出來那我們在建制中啦\n\n08:47.836 --> 09:00.329\n關於碳費,碳費它環境部在針對一些大戶,比如說煉鋼、石化、水泥一般公共工程還不至於有繳交碳費的問題不過這個建築我請企劃處處長來跟我們...未來會有,因為時間的關係主席站上來,主委我跟您討論一個原則\n\n09:04.714 --> 09:28.056\n你的資料庫因為你也編列預算1000萬然後350萬我非常的希望能夠建置完成但是也就是說我們2050年近鄰碳排的這個目標那你政府應該要讓讓讓民眾有所依據啊所以本就請問你一個也就是你們現在沒有明定\n\n09:28.757 --> 09:53.955\n沒有明定你的編碼正確的這個正確率進階的目標你現在沒出來啊那你現在編了這支預算是不是告訴我明年114年你可以出來你可以出來好那我們跟委員報告齁因為整個碳排的這個項目很多啦那我們根據明年的預算會把這個碳排放的估算系統初步建置完成\n\n09:54.175 --> 10:18.068\n初步建制完成也就是你必須要明定編碼的正確率的進階目標那你讓要標的人才有所依據嘛對不對你也把你這1000萬以及你資料庫的這個委庫的這個服務費的你的350萬你這一些一定有你的指標你的KPI你預計要怎麼做\n\n10:19.288 --> 10:35.244\n你順便資料給本席好不好那原則上也就是在明年一個答案就是說明年你的攤牌的這個係數你的這個編碼正確率的進階目標明年初步應該會出來是不是好加油好謝謝楊瓊英委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.531,"end":4.407,"text":"謝主席 邀請工程會主委請工程會陳主委"},{"start":11.094,"end":25.024,"text":"主任好辛苦了我們來討論114年的預算在你公共工程企劃以及法規業務的部分你為了要健全工程採購法規的制度那你編列了156萬4千元那比這個103年度是增加了這個"},{"start":34.671,"end":35.311,"text":"委員會主管通訊傳播監"},{"start":57.941,"end":65.185,"text":"但是我們看到這個成交也就是說工程會的資料去顯示我們5000萬以上的工程採購從108年開始你每一年決標千餘件一千多件"},{"start":73.49,"end":83.455,"text":"那你曾經留廢標的比例以及未在兩次內決標的比例呢108年度是69.27以及19.76但是到了111年它上升了它上升了什麼呢?它從69.27到78.04從19.76到了多少?到了26.32"},{"start":100.123,"end":126.241,"text":"所以主委像這樣的一個情況我們看到數字告訴你我也看到了113年8月底就今年度的到8月底你部分這個工程採購的流費標以及還沒有決標的那有在上升那你認為這個部分要怎麼樣去應對讓我們怎麼去調整讓我們的公共工程能夠更加的順利推動請說明"},{"start":129.629,"end":145.18,"text":"分成兩部分第一部分就是健全工程採購法規的制度我們近來開始著手在這個採購法的修正比方說過去投標一定要三家以上那未滿三家往往就一直流標"},{"start":146.021,"end":164.333,"text":"本席了解,現在就一家,第一次三家,第二次就一家。所以本席才告訴你,那既然是第二次就一家,但是你味覺飄著,它還是在上升啊。表示你改變了這個制度,你並沒有去把這個工程順暢去提升啊。"},{"start":165.51,"end":190.881,"text":"所以我們這個有關於法規的修正需要一點預算大概86萬新增那採購法要廣徵各界意見要辦說明會等等這個是採購法的修正其中有涉及到流標或絕標的一些規範來降低這個流標的次數然後進行採購制度所以這一點本席也是希望你書面資料給本席你的精準方案"},{"start":191.741,"end":213.619,"text":"因為我們實際上你改變了制度以前要三次三家通通三家第四次才可以這一家來協議但是現在我們為了要讓它順暢我們第二次就是只要有一家就得但是我們的數字還是不好看的啊所以表示你這個制度還是沒有辦法真正去"},{"start":214.54,"end":228.757,"text":"解決目前的困境我們目前的公共建設、公共工程它能夠發包執行之前要往前推好幾年那往前推好幾年有可行性、連就、有綜合規劃非常了解,所以針對本席的提問也就是說"},{"start":231.921,"end":254.062,"text":"目前我們的制度雖然有改改了一段時間執行一段時間但是本席告訴你數字還不是那麼順暢你去研明方案你也點頭也知道這個困難當然不可能單一元素一定有很多的因子存在所以你們去通盤了解怎麼樣可以讓我們的政策"},{"start":255.003,"end":257.346,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":274.144,"end":277.087,"text":"審查114年度中央政府總預算案審查114年度中央政府總預算案審查114年度中央政府總預算案審查114年度中央政府總預算案"},{"start":296.244,"end":310.015,"text":"那所以本席要請教的是因為你目前是電子採購導入0信任的這個驗證機制他目前還是有這個對象限制對不對"},{"start":314.754,"end":332.846,"text":"也就是本席要強調的你現在運用這個你適用的對象是有限的所以你還必須是去用傳統模式共同混合來運作那這個會不會影響到他的治安的安全混合在一起會不會影響到治安的安全"},{"start":333.286,"end":351.636,"text":"所以本席要問的也就是說當發揮網路的這個治安防護的成效那你們會不會在這樣的情況之下會有一點矛盾點我們一定要治安但是你要用傳統式的混合機制去做那這個成效到底會怎麼樣請出說明"},{"start":352.785,"end":372.913,"text":"是跟委員說明齁那其實我們知我們都是做這個零信任導入其實就是為了治安那治安的部分呢其實我們是一層一層疊加上去的那那個訴罰部他們在導入這個零信任的時候他們今年是有初步的輔導我們各部位來導入那其實他導入那你編列了700萬啊"},{"start":373.613,"end":402.407,"text":"對,它先期導入那其實它要提供我們一些user的一個用處但是後期其實還是要靠我們自己來做全面性的一個處理所以我們後面接續的對於你的單位講這樣就對了因為你如果只有靠書法部你目前能夠做的也就是傳統式跟現在推動當然這個我們要推動行訊院的機制我們要推動但是關鍵者還是在你自己因為它現在的這個對象是有限制的"},{"start":403.047,"end":414.335,"text":"有限財有盲點所以這個議題是我們一定要努力推動但是他的盲點在你的單位你掌控的全國的公共工程這個你必須要專案用心去做"},{"start":415.242,"end":434.495,"text":"是不是應該要如此?你們要有你自己的KPI你自己的步驟好不好?你把你的KPI你的步驟告訴這個順便資料給本席我們一起來看著你的KPI我們一起來努力這個零信任的這個機制那最後一個議題我要請教我要請教"},{"start":436.656,"end":461.864,"text":"公共工程委員會裡頭的業務以及它你的公共規範、認證、整合、維護、推廣、研發你的新編的資料庫你是350萬那你要建置開發公共工程經費的網頁及碳排的估算你是1000萬現在所有的人都希望他在能夠公共工程提供的工料的這個預算"},{"start":463.524,"end":481.078,"text":"那決標的價格給機關單位來參考因為你這個基礎數是非常的重要這個平台所以本想要請教現在所有的同業業者你很煩惱啊我到底沒碳排我是要怎麼計算未知數、環境部你的碳藍圖還沒出來"},{"start":482.739,"end":505.252,"text":"碳費、碳費率也初步講一個答案就是說5年後要到1816倍那我整個整個要來飆的人他會害怕啊又碰到通盆啊又碰到人工掃啊這一些都是因子所以主委像這樣的一個情況之下第一個你的這個碳排氣數"},{"start":507.313,"end":526.094,"text":"是不是在什麼時候可以正確出來你讓他得標者有所依據啊因為你政府如果關鍵沒有出來農耗沒有出來我根本就不知道要怎麼標嘛當然你的位決一定更多嘛非標委會越多啊請說明什麼時候會出來他們的技術什麼時候會出來那我們在建制中啦"},{"start":527.836,"end":540.329,"text":"關於碳費,碳費它環境部在針對一些大戶,比如說煉鋼、石化、水泥一般公共工程還不至於有繳交碳費的問題不過這個建築我請企劃處處長來跟我們...未來會有,因為時間的關係主席站上來,主委我跟您討論一個原則"},{"start":544.714,"end":568.056,"text":"你的資料庫因為你也編列預算1000萬然後350萬我非常的希望能夠建置完成但是也就是說我們2050年近鄰碳排的這個目標那你政府應該要讓讓讓民眾有所依據啊所以本就請問你一個也就是你們現在沒有明定"},{"start":568.757,"end":593.955,"text":"沒有明定你的編碼正確的這個正確率進階的目標你現在沒出來啊那你現在編了這支預算是不是告訴我明年114年你可以出來你可以出來好那我們跟委員報告齁因為整個碳排的這個項目很多啦那我們根據明年的預算會把這個碳排放的估算系統初步建置完成"},{"start":594.175,"end":618.068,"text":"初步建制完成也就是你必須要明定編碼的正確率的進階目標那你讓要標的人才有所依據嘛對不對你也把你這1000萬以及你資料庫的這個委庫的這個服務費的你的350萬你這一些一定有你的指標你的KPI你預計要怎麼做"},{"start":619.288,"end":635.244,"text":"你順便資料給本席好不好那原則上也就是在明年一個答案就是說明年你的攤牌的這個係數你的這個編碼正確率的進階目標明年初步應該會出來是不是好加油好謝謝楊瓊英委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1163,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（13時）謝謝主席，邀請工程會主委。"],["主席：請工程會陳主委。"],["陳主任委員金德：委員好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：主委好，辛苦了！主委，我們來討論114年的預算，在你「公共工程企劃及法規業務」的部分，為了要健全工程採購法規的制度，你編列了156萬4,000元，比113年度增加了86萬4,000元，113年是70萬而已，如果依照比例，那就是增幅123%，從這個比重我們可以看出，您看到這個問題的重要性，所以增加這個預算。","但預算編列出來我們還是要看它的成效，據工程會的資料顯示，5,000萬以上的工程採購從108年開始，每一年決標千餘件，一千多件，曾經流廢標的比率以及未在2次內決標的比率，108年度是69.27%以及19.76%，但是到了111年，哦！它上升了耶！它上升了多少？從69.27%到78.04%，從19.76%到26.32%，所以主委，像這樣的一個情況，我們看到數字告訴你。","我也看到了，113年8月底，就是今年度到8月底，你部分工程採購的流廢標以及還沒有決標的，有在上升，你認為這個部分要怎麼樣去應對、怎麼去調整，讓我們的公共工程能夠更加地順利推動？請說明。"],["陳主任委員金德：報告委員，分成兩部分，第一部分就是健全工程採購法規的制度，我們近來開始著手在採購法的修正，比方說過去投標一定要3家以上，未滿3家往往就會一直流標，但是那是過去的……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席瞭解，現在只有1家，第1次3家，第2次就1家……"],["陳主任委員金德：對，那過去……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以本席才告訴你，既然是第2次就1家，但是你未決標的，它還是在上升啊！"],["陳主任委員金德：對，所以我……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：表示你改變了這個制度，你並沒有把工程順暢去提升啊！"],["陳主任委員金德：對，所以我們有關於法規的修正需要一點預算，大概新增86萬，採購法要廣徵各界意見，要辦說明會等等，這個是採購法的修正，其中有涉及到流標或決標的一些規範，來降低流標的次數，然後健全採購制度。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以這一點，希望你書面資料給本席，你的精準方案。"],["陳主任委員金德：好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：因為實際上你改變了制度，以前要3次3家，統統3家，第4次才可以1家來協議，但是現在為了要讓它順暢，第2次只要有1家就得，但是我們的數字還是不好看啊！"],["陳主任委員金德：這個是因為，比方說110年度……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以表示你這個制度還是沒有辦法真正去解決目前的困境。"],["陳主任委員金德：我們目前的公共建設、公共工程它能夠發包執行，之前要往前推好幾年，那往前推好幾年有可行性研究、有綜合規劃，要核定預算……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：非常瞭解，所以針對本席的提問……"],["陳主任委員金德：那個時候的預算會比較低。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：也就是說，目前我們的制度雖然有改，改了一段時間，執行一段時間，但是本席告訴你，數字還不是那麼順暢，你去研擬方案。"],["陳主任委員金德：好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你也點頭，也知道這個困難，當然不可能是單一元素，一定有很多的因子存在，所以你們去通盤瞭解，怎麼樣可以讓我們的政策、工程能夠更加順暢，這才能夠達到三全其美嘛！","接下來本席要跟你討論的是「公共工程企劃及法規業務」，你推動了採購電子化，所以這個項下你編列了3,913萬5,000元，包括編列擴大導入零信任機制，這個部分就達到700萬，在這樣的情況之下，本席要請教，114年數發部它在政策裡頭，新增要擴大導入零信任機制的經費，所以你們也配合，你光這個部分就700萬，本席要請教的是，因為你目前是電子採購導入零信任驗證機制，它還是有對象限制，對不對？"],["陳主任委員金德：是不是請我們業務單位來跟委員報告？"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，業務單位說明一下。本席要強調的是，你現在運用這個，你適用的對象是有限的，所以你必須與傳統模式混合來運作，這個會不會影響到資安的安全？混合在一起，會不會影響到資安的安全？也就是說，要發揮網路資安防護的成效，那你們在這樣的情況之下，會不會有一點矛盾點？我們一定要資安，但是你又用傳統式的混合機制去做，那這個成效到底會怎麼樣？請做說明。"],["沈執行秘書恆光：是，跟委員說明，其實我們做零信任導入就是為了資安。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：當然。"],["沈執行秘書恆光：資安的部分，其實我們是一層一層疊加上去的，那數發部他們在導入零信任的時候，他們今年是有初步地輔導我們各部會來導入，其實它導入……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，所以你編列了700萬啊！"],["沈執行秘書恆光：對，它先期導入，其實它有提供我們一個user的用數，但是後期還是要靠我們自己來做全面性的處理，所以我們後面接續地去……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，主委，你的單位講這樣就對了，因為你如果只有靠數發部，你目前能夠做的也就是傳統式跟現在推動，當然這個我們要推動，零信任的機制我們要推動，但是關鍵者還是在你自己。"],["沈執行秘書恆光：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：因為它現在的對象是有限制的，有限制還有盲點，所以這個議題我們一定要努力推動，但是它的盲點，在你的單位你掌控了全國的公共工程，這個你必須要專案用心去做，主委，是不是應當要如此？"],["沈執行秘書恆光：是，所以我們後續編列預算持續推動下去。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對不對？"],["沈執行秘書恆光：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你們要有你自己的KPI，你自己的步驟，好不好？"],["沈執行秘書恆光：好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你把你的KPI、你的步驟，書面資料給本席。"],["沈執行秘書恆光：好，是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們一起來看著你的KPI，我們一起來努力，導入這個零信任機制。","最後一個議題我要請教，公共工程委員會裡頭的業務，你的規範、認證、整合、維護、推廣、研發，你新編的資料庫是350萬，你要建置及開發公共工程經費的網頁及碳排估算是1,000萬，現在所有的人都希望公共工程能夠提供供料的預算及決標的價格給機關單位來參考，因為你這一個基礎數非常的重要，這一個平臺，所以本席要請教，現在所有的同業業者他很煩惱啊！我到底碳排是要怎麼計算？未知數。環境部，你的碳藍圖還沒出來，碳費、碳費率也初步講一個答案，就是說好，我300元，5年後要到1,800元，是6倍，那要來標的人他會害怕啊！又碰到通膨，又碰到人工少，這一些都是因子，所以主委，像這樣的情況之下，第一個，你的碳排係數在什麼時候可以正確出來？你要讓得標者有所依據啊！因為你政府如果關鍵沒有出來，know-how沒有出來，我根本就不知道要怎麼標嘛！當然你的未決一定更多，廢標也會越多啊！請說明，什麼時候會出來？碳排係數什麼時候會出來？"],["陳主任委員金德：我們在建置中啦！關於碳費，環境部針對一些大戶，比方說煉鋼、石化、水泥，一般公共工程還不至於有繳交碳費的問題，不過這個建置，我請企劃處處長來跟委員報告。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：未來會有，因為時間的關係，主席站起來了。主委，我跟你討論一個原則，你的資料庫因為你也編列預算1,000萬，然後350萬，我非常希望能夠建置完成，但是我們2050年淨零碳排這個目標，政府應該要讓民眾有所依據啊！所以本席就請問你一個，你們現在沒有明定編碼正確率進階目標，你現在還沒有出來啊！那你現在編列這一些預算是不是告訴我，明年114年你可以出來？"],["陳主任委員金德：好，我們跟委員報告，因為整個碳排的項目很多啦！我們根據明年的預算，會把碳排放的估算系統初步建置完成。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：初步建置完成，也就是你必須要明定編碼正確率進階目標，要標的人才有所依據嘛！對不對？你這1,000萬以及你資料庫委託服務案的350萬，這一些一定有你的指標、你的KPI，預計要怎麼做，書面資料給本席，好嗎？原則上也就是在明年，一個答案，就是明年你的碳排係數、你的編碼正確率進階目標，明年初步應該會出來，是不是？"],["陳主任委員金德：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，加油！"],["主席：謝謝楊瓊瓔委員。","接下來邀請林月琴委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":134,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-12","speakers":["陳素月","林國成","李昆澤","魯明哲","林沛祥","許智傑","林俊憲","黃健豪","廖先翔","徐富癸","林淑芬","蔡其昌","游顥","邱若華","何欣純","賴士葆","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","林月琴","羅智強","葉元之","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","王鴻薇"],"page_start":55,"meetingDate":["2024-11-28"],"gazette_id":"11310801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於行政院公共工程委員會單位預算；二、審查114年度中央\n政府總預算案關於國家通訊傳播委員會單位預算；三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位\n預算非營業部分關於國家通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播監督管理基金預算；四、審查114年度中\n央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於國家通訊傳播委員會主管有線廣播電視事業發展基\n金預算；五、審查113 年度中央政府總預算關於國家通訊傳播委員會預算凍結書面報告案計 2 案\n（第一案至第四案僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11310801_00002"}}}