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00:00:45,464\n委員好,處理長,我們這個追加預算,其實你們的程序之前是有一些問題的,因為我們到7月份審計部才會審定稅計剩餘,但是你們在5月就提出追加預算,所以你們搞了一個巧門,所以就是先用舉債的方式,\n\n3\n00:00:46,044 --> 00:00:59,085\n然後等到7月份合併稅計剩餘,你們才用稅計剩餘。請問一下,那麼我們現在這個追加1000億到底有多少是用取債,多少是一用稅計剩餘?\n\n4\n00:01:00,731 --> 00:01:16,282\n因為當初送到院裡頭裡面來的時候我們這個部分是用舉債的那到時候如果我們有稅計剩餘我們就不用舉債也可以直接這樣執行對啊那最後到底是舉債多少稅計剩餘支應多少\n\n5\n00:01:18,664 --> 00:01:35,718\n目前這個部分一千億的稅基剩餘是有保留,保留要作為追加之用,那如果說將來這個案子在執行的時候,雖然是有列舉債,但是因為有稅基剩餘．對啊,多少嗎,多少啊,我一直在問,我們有保留一千億\n\n6\n00:01:37,116 --> 00:02:00,649\n所以就是說如果這個追加一千億如果是通過的話那麼全數都是一用稅計剩餘那之前那個舉債的部分呢就不舉債了是不是所以呢你們是先設建再劃法嘛就是反正我已經先要追加了那至於我設計剩餘有沒有核定\n\n7\n00:02:01,249 --> 00:02:01,369\n王鴻薇議員\n\n8\n00:02:28,066 --> 00:02:28,466\n主席王鴻薇\n\n9\n00:02:47,912 --> 00:03:03,898\n在你們的報告裡面,包含台電報告,包含主技術報告,過去都是這樣子,一開頭就說這是因為俄烏戰爭,這個國際的能源價格的標高,但是事實上我們可以看到這個國際石油價格的趨勢圖,\n\n10\n00:03:08,940 --> 00:03:30,717\n在2022年當時惡霧戰爭開打的時候確實當時的能源價格飆高但是事實上在2022年底就開始整個的價格已經往下盪到現在為止事實上也早就回到惡霧戰爭之前的價格\n\n11\n00:03:33,104 --> 00:03:47,485\n所以你們一直在講我已經講過很多次了你們每次都用惡物戰爭來做你們的幌子其實我們現在台電一個嚴重的虧損是來自於我們發電成本的提高嘛\n\n12\n00:03:48,566 --> 00:04:15,458\n這個發言成本提高並不是來自於能源價格現在能源價格你可以看到早就回到那個二五戰爭之前反而我們每一次再說我們的成本提高或者是我們的電價調整來我們看下一個圖這個過去在那個總諮詢的時候我也提過我們每一次在提高價格的時候提高電價的時候都來自於我們核電廠的廚藝\n\n13\n00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:27,249\n你可以看到嘛（從2022年2021��2021年7月（黃二長一號機退役（然後開始（國內的電價就一直往上升了（\n\n14\n00:04:28,516 --> 00:04:39,538\n所以你們今天一直在用所謂的國際能源價格提高這是一種擋箭牌這是一個煙霧彈其實就是因為我們讓核電廠除役而造成的所以這也就為什麼我們一直沒有辦法到現在沒有辦法說服我們要繼續讓你們追加然後明年還要用公務預算繼續的去彌補今年事實上我們好幾次都已經告訴你們了\n\n15\n00:04:57,901 --> 00:05:07,067\n這幾年,我們包含之前的增資﹖去年增資﹖去年的撥補﹖一直到今年的增資﹖今年增資也完成了﹖現在是要追加﹖\n\n16\n00:05:09,090 --> 00:05:32,578\n按照你們現在的一個估計起碼5000億到明年到明年這個公務預算要5000億那麼你們經濟部長也說不會再那個什麼就是還是會虧損在這樣狀況之下臺電會變成一個無底洞所以這就是我們沒有辦法再繼續如果你的\n\n17\n00:05:33,980 --> 00:06:02,910\n人員政策不做調整因為現在河山廠只剩下最後一個機組了嘛最後一個機組你還要繼續的除役那我們真的沒有辦法去同意你這個包含今年的追加跟明天的撥補預算那請問一下那個董事長我們河山廠現在一號機開始除役請問一下我們的河燃料棒已經開始把它運回去了嗎?運出去了嗎?\n\n18\n00:06:04,380 --> 00:06:05,661\n對,沒錯,我說還沒有用過的\n\n19\n00:06:21,076 --> 00:06:47,545\n還沒用過的沒有運回去啊也都還沒有運回去因為他本來這樣講我們本來就是依照每一次沖田要多少我們就會買多少好所以你們在荷蘭肉棒的部分現在並沒有運出去我們沒有新的就這樣講我們最後一次最後一次填充燃料就把它給用完了剛剛好因為每次都計算他要用到要填充多少燃料都計算好每一次大修\n\n20\n00:06:48,385 --> 00:07:01,300\n都會把它計算好放進去你們到現在也沒有再新增加那個購買就是沒有沒用過的燃料棒你們那個二號機組還沒除役啊那個是二號機現在在反應爐裡面\n\n21\n00:07:03,243 --> 00:07:05,685\n昨天周玉蔻小姐因為做不實的評論跟新聞說\n\n22\n00:07:19,652 --> 00:07:34,821\n張淑娟小姐涉及當年的所謂的長單事件所以呢周玉蔻小姐已經被判刑一年六個月按照這樣的話她應該要去坐牢但是我們過去台電的這個宣傳的費用\n\n23\n00:07:37,523 --> 00:07:50,395\n如果看台電宣傳費用過去幾乎年年都會包給放言科技廣告的委刊工作幾乎每一年而且都用限制性招標\n\n24\n00:07:52,314 --> 00:08:19,419\n其實被外界質疑說這是不是特定供養在特定的媒體所以我想請問一下因為台電還有明年的預算而且你們的宣傳預算很多我不看不知道4000多萬台電的宣傳預算4000多萬所以我想請教董事長有關於周玉蔻小姐現在已經被判刑一年六個月她過去她也被人家\n\n25\n00:08:21,129 --> 00:08:46,727\n告了很多過去大概都是民事讓他賠償但是這次張淑娟小姐她非常憤怒她告他刑事所以現在已經被判刑請問一下台電未來你們還會去把你們的這些宣傳費去給特定媒體給一個已經被法院判刑的判刑事要坐牢的一個媒體嗎\n\n26\n00:08:49,528 --> 00:09:16,307\n請回答跟委員報告就是說他基本上這一些合約都是有透過一個採購程序去進行的都限制性招標壓我覺得採購我們只能夠依照採購的過程去做相關的評選我要跟委員報告就是說現在發生的任何狀況都會是評選的一個參考的標準這個事情大概就是如此你提的問題我們的採購對象是一個法人\n\n27\n00:09:17,208 --> 00:09:40,504\n也不是自然人,我想說這個要跟委員特別發表。好,你們對於放言這什麼樣的是一個透過所謂的公平2018年2019年2020年2021年中間連續4年你們的標案都叫做放言科技廣告委刊工作\n\n28\n00:09:41,464 --> 00:09:53,272\n標案叫做鳳岩科技廣告委刊工作連續4年每年都在50萬上下從2018年47萬2019年49萬2020年50萬到2021年54萬你看金額都差不多他固定要在這邊跟你領薪水啊這叫做是一個公平的標案\n\n29\n00:10:06,243 --> 00:10:29,904\n然後到2023年還有所謂的電力科普知識網路推廣一樣啊49萬啊你每一年都要固定給他50萬欸請問哪一家哪一家媒體會透過你的一個所謂公開的標案每一年都可以跟你台電領50萬你告訴我除了他之外還有誰你告訴我\n\n30\n00:10:31,820 --> 00:10:58,529\n委員如果需要我們就是所有媒體採購的資料我需要我需要你們這幾年所有媒體採購你們4000多萬怎麼標出去的標給了誰成果是什麼樣我講了這個放鹽嘛每一年耶連續4年然後中間變成那個而且都是放鹽科技我剛講標案就叫放鹽科技的這個委託案\n\n31\n00:10:59,749 --> 00:11:23,827\n到底哪一個媒體有這麼樣神通廣大,你可不可以告訴我?我就要來看看你們其他的媒體是怎麼樣的,你們標案是什麼樣的形式?因為這些資料基本上審計也會看,大家都會看,就是...是!對啦,是你們台電標完審計也看,一起包庇嘛!這個在媒體根本就是公開的秘密了嘛!台電納稅人是要供養特定媒體嗎?\n\n32\n00:11:27,469 --> 00:11:27,609\n王鴻薇委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7674\t8435\t主席、台電董事長\n23683\t45464\t委員好,處理長,我們這個追加預算,其實你們的程序之前是有一些問題的,因為我們到7月份審計部才會審定稅計剩餘,但是你們在5月就提出追加預算,所以你們搞了一個巧門,所以就是先用舉債的方式,\n46044\t59085\t然後等到7月份合併稅計剩餘,你們才用稅計剩餘。請問一下,那麼我們現在這個追加1000億到底有多少是用取債,多少是一用稅計剩餘?\n60731\t76282\t因為當初送到院裡頭裡面來的時候我們這個部分是用舉債的那到時候如果我們有稅計剩餘我們就不用舉債也可以直接這樣執行對啊那最後到底是舉債多少稅計剩餘支應多少\n78664\t95718\t目前這個部分一千億的稅基剩餘是有保留,保留要作為追加之用,那如果說將來這個案子在執行的時候,雖然是有列舉債,但是因為有稅基剩餘．對啊,多少嗎,多少啊,我一直在問,我們有保留一千億\n97116\t120649\t所以就是說如果這個追加一千億如果是通過的話那麼全數都是一用稅計剩餘那之前那個舉債的部分呢就不舉債了是不是所以呢你們是先設建再劃法嘛就是反正我已經先要追加了那至於我設計剩餘有沒有核定\n121249\t121369\t王鴻薇議員\n148066\t148466\t主席王鴻薇\n167912\t183898\t在你們的報告裡面,包含台電報告,包含主技術報告,過去都是這樣子,一開頭就說這是因為俄烏戰爭,這個國際的能源價格的標高,但是事實上我們可以看到這個國際石油價格的趨勢圖,\n188940\t210717\t在2022年當時惡霧戰爭開打的時候確實當時的能源價格飆高但是事實上在2022年底就開始整個的價格已經往下盪到現在為止事實上也早就回到惡霧戰爭之前的價格\n213104\t227485\t所以你們一直在講我已經講過很多次了你們每次都用惡物戰爭來做你們的幌子其實我們現在台電一個嚴重的虧損是來自於我們發電成本的提高嘛\n228566\t255458\t這個發言成本提高並不是來自於能源價格現在能源價格你可以看到早就回到那個二五戰爭之前反而我們每一次再說我們的成本提高或者是我們的電價調整來我們看下一個圖這個過去在那個總諮詢的時候我也提過我們每一次在提高價格的時候提高電價的時候都來自於我們核電廠的廚藝\n257279\t267249\t你可以看到嘛（從2022年2021��2021年7月（黃二長一號機退役（然後開始（國內的電價就一直往上升了（\n268516\t279538\t所以你們今天一直在用所謂的國際能源價格提高這是一種擋箭牌這是一個煙霧彈其實就是因為我們讓核電廠除役而造成的所以這也就為什麼我們一直沒有辦法到現在沒有辦法說服我們要繼續讓你們追加然後明年還要用公務預算繼續的去彌補今年事實上我們好幾次都已經告訴你們了\n297901\t307067\t這幾年,我們包含之前的增資﹖去年增資﹖去年的撥補﹖一直到今年的增資﹖今年增資也完成了﹖現在是要追加﹖\n309090\t332578\t按照你們現在的一個估計起碼5000億到明年到明年這個公務預算要5000億那麼你們經濟部長也說不會再那個什麼就是還是會虧損在這樣狀況之下臺電會變成一個無底洞所以這就是我們沒有辦法再繼續如果你的\n333980\t362910\t人員政策不做調整因為現在河山廠只剩下最後一個機組了嘛最後一個機組你還要繼續的除役那我們真的沒有辦法去同意你這個包含今年的追加跟明天的撥補預算那請問一下那個董事長我們河山廠現在一號機開始除役請問一下我們的河燃料棒已經開始把它運回去了嗎?運出去了嗎?\n364380\t365661\t對,沒錯,我說還沒有用過的\n381076\t407545\t還沒用過的沒有運回去啊也都還沒有運回去因為他本來這樣講我們本來就是依照每一次沖田要多少我們就會買多少好所以你們在荷蘭肉棒的部分現在並沒有運出去我們沒有新的就這樣講我們最後一次最後一次填充燃料就把它給用完了剛剛好因為每次都計算他要用到要填充多少燃料都計算好每一次大修\n408385\t421300\t都會把它計算好放進去你們到現在也沒有再新增加那個購買就是沒有沒用過的燃料棒你們那個二號機組還沒除役啊那個是二號機現在在反應爐裡面\n423243\t425685\t昨天周玉蔻小姐因為做不實的評論跟新聞說\n439652\t454821\t張淑娟小姐涉及當年的所謂的長單事件所以呢周玉蔻小姐已經被判刑一年六個月按照這樣的話她應該要去坐牢但是我們過去台電的這個宣傳的費用\n457523\t470395\t如果看台電宣傳費用過去幾乎年年都會包給放言科技廣告的委刊工作幾乎每一年而且都用限制性招標\n472314\t499419\t其實被外界質疑說這是不是特定供養在特定的媒體所以我想請問一下因為台電還有明年的預算而且你們的宣傳預算很多我不看不知道4000多萬台電的宣傳預算4000多萬所以我想請教董事長有關於周玉蔻小姐現在已經被判刑一年六個月她過去她也被人家\n501129\t526727\t告了很多過去大概都是民事讓他賠償但是這次張淑娟小姐她非常憤怒她告他刑事所以現在已經被判刑請問一下台電未來你們還會去把你們的這些宣傳費去給特定媒體給一個已經被法院判刑的判刑事要坐牢的一個媒體嗎\n529528\t556307\t請回答跟委員報告就是說他基本上這一些合約都是有透過一個採購程序去進行的都限制性招標壓我覺得採購我們只能夠依照採購的過程去做相關的評選我要跟委員報告就是說現在發生的任何狀況都會是評選的一個參考的標準這個事情大概就是如此你提的問題我們的採購對象是一個法人\n557208\t580504\t也不是自然人,我想說這個要跟委員特別發表。好,你們對於放言這什麼樣的是一個透過所謂的公平2018年2019年2020年2021年中間連續4年你們的標案都叫做放言科技廣告委刊工作\n581464\t593272\t標案叫做鳳岩科技廣告委刊工作連續4年每年都在50萬上下從2018年47萬2019年49萬2020年50萬到2021年54萬你看金額都差不多他固定要在這邊跟你領薪水啊這叫做是一個公平的標案\n606243\t629904\t然後到2023年還有所謂的電力科普知識網路推廣一樣啊 49萬啊你每一年都要固定給他50萬欸請問哪一家哪一家媒體會透過你的一個所謂公開的標案每一年都可以跟你台電領50萬你告訴我除了他之外還有誰你告訴我\n631820\t658529\t委員如果需要我們就是所有媒體採購的資料我需要我需要你們這幾年所有媒體採購你們4000多萬怎麼標出去的標給了誰成果是什麼樣我講了這個放鹽嘛每一年耶連續4年然後中間變成那個而且都是放鹽科技我剛講標案就叫放鹽科技的這個委託案\n659749\t683827\t到底哪一個媒體有這麼樣神通廣大,你可不可以告訴我?我就要來看看你們其他的媒體是怎麼樣的,你們標案是什麼樣的形式?因為這些資料基本上審計也會看,大家都會看,就是...是!對啦,是你們台電標完審計也看,一起包庇嘛!這個在媒體根本就是公開的秘密了嘛!台電納稅人是要供養特定媒體嗎?\n687469\t687609\t王鴻薇委員\n","txt":"主席、台電董事長\n委員好,處理長,我們這個追加預算,其實你們的程序之前是有一些問題的,因為我們到7月份審計部才會審定稅計剩餘,但是你們在5月就提出追加預算,所以你們搞了一個巧門,所以就是先用舉債的方式,\n然後等到7月份合併稅計剩餘,你們才用稅計剩餘。請問一下,那麼我們現在這個追加1000億到底有多少是用取債,多少是一用稅計剩餘?\n因為當初送到院裡頭裡面來的時候我們這個部分是用舉債的那到時候如果我們有稅計剩餘我們就不用舉債也可以直接這樣執行對啊那最後到底是舉債多少稅計剩餘支應多少\n目前這個部分一千億的稅基剩餘是有保留,保留要作為追加之用,那如果說將來這個案子在執行的時候,雖然是有列舉債,但是因為有稅基剩餘．對啊,多少嗎,多少啊,我一直在問,我們有保留一千億\n所以就是說如果這個追加一千億如果是通過的話那麼全數都是一用稅計剩餘那之前那個舉債的部分呢就不舉債了是不是所以呢你們是先設建再劃法嘛就是反正我已經先要追加了那至於我設計剩餘有沒有核定\n王鴻薇議員\n主席王鴻薇\n在你們的報告裡面,包含台電報告,包含主技術報告,過去都是這樣子,一開頭就說這是因為俄烏戰爭,這個國際的能源價格的標高,但是事實上我們可以看到這個國際石油價格的趨勢圖,\n在2022年當時惡霧戰爭開打的時候確實當時的能源價格飆高但是事實上在2022年底就開始整個的價格已經往下盪到現在為止事實上也早就回到惡霧戰爭之前的價格\n所以你們一直在講我已經講過很多次了你們每次都用惡物戰爭來做你們的幌子其實我們現在台電一個嚴重的虧損是來自於我們發電成本的提高嘛\n這個發言成本提高並不是來自於能源價格現在能源價格你可以看到早就回到那個二五戰爭之前反而我們每一次再說我們的成本提高或者是我們的電價調整來我們看下一個圖這個過去在那個總諮詢的時候我也提過我們每一次在提高價格的時候提高電價的時候都來自於我們核電廠的廚藝\n你可以看到嘛（從2022年2021��2021年7月（黃二長一號機退役（然後開始（國內的電價就一直往上升了（\n所以你們今天一直在用所謂的國際能源價格提高這是一種擋箭牌這是一個煙霧彈其實就是因為我們讓核電廠除役而造成的所以這也就為什麼我們一直沒有辦法到現在沒有辦法說服我們要繼續讓你們追加然後明年還要用公務預算繼續的去彌補今年事實上我們好幾次都已經告訴你們了\n這幾年,我們包含之前的增資﹖去年增資﹖去年的撥補﹖一直到今年的增資﹖今年增資也完成了﹖現在是要追加﹖\n按照你們現在的一個估計起碼5000億到明年到明年這個公務預算要5000億那麼你們經濟部長也說不會再那個什麼就是還是會虧損在這樣狀況之下臺電會變成一個無底洞所以這就是我們沒有辦法再繼續如果你的\n人員政策不做調整因為現在河山廠只剩下最後一個機組了嘛最後一個機組你還要繼續的除役那我們真的沒有辦法去同意你這個包含今年的追加跟明天的撥補預算那請問一下那個董事長我們河山廠現在一號機開始除役請問一下我們的河燃料棒已經開始把它運回去了嗎?運出去了嗎?\n對,沒錯,我說還沒有用過的\n還沒用過的沒有運回去啊也都還沒有運回去因為他本來這樣講我們本來就是依照每一次沖田要多少我們就會買多少好所以你們在荷蘭肉棒的部分現在並沒有運出去我們沒有新的就這樣講我們最後一次最後一次填充燃料就把它給用完了剛剛好因為每次都計算他要用到要填充多少燃料都計算好每一次大修\n都會把它計算好放進去你們到現在也沒有再新增加那個購買就是沒有沒用過的燃料棒你們那個二號機組還沒除役啊那個是二號機現在在反應爐裡面\n昨天周玉蔻小姐因為做不實的評論跟新聞說\n張淑娟小姐涉及當年的所謂的長單事件所以呢周玉蔻小姐已經被判刑一年六個月按照這樣的話她應該要去坐牢但是我們過去台電的這個宣傳的費用\n如果看台電宣傳費用過去幾乎年年都會包給放言科技廣告的委刊工作幾乎每一年而且都用限制性招標\n其實被外界質疑說這是不是特定供養在特定的媒體所以我想請問一下因為台電還有明年的預算而且你們的宣傳預算很多我不看不知道4000多萬台電的宣傳預算4000多萬所以我想請教董事長有關於周玉蔻小姐現在已經被判刑一年六個月她過去她也被人家\n告了很多過去大概都是民事讓他賠償但是這次張淑娟小姐她非常憤怒她告他刑事所以現在已經被判刑請問一下台電未來你們還會去把你們的這些宣傳費去給特定媒體給一個已經被法院判刑的判刑事要坐牢的一個媒體嗎\n請回答跟委員報告就是說他基本上這一些合約都是有透過一個採購程序去進行的都限制性招標壓我覺得採購我們只能夠依照採購的過程去做相關的評選我要跟委員報告就是說現在發生的任何狀況都會是評選的一個參考的標準這個事情大概就是如此你提的問題我們的採購對象是一個法人\n也不是自然人,我想說這個要跟委員特別發表。好,你們對於放言這什麼樣的是一個透過所謂的公平2018年2019年2020年2021年中間連續4年你們的標案都叫做放言科技廣告委刊工作\n標案叫做鳳岩科技廣告委刊工作連續4年每年都在50萬上下從2018年47萬2019年49萬2020年50萬到2021年54萬你看金額都差不多他固定要在這邊跟你領薪水啊這叫做是一個公平的標案\n然後到2023年還有所謂的電力科普知識網路推廣一樣啊 49萬啊你每一年都要固定給他50萬欸請問哪一家哪一家媒體會透過你的一個所謂公開的標案每一年都可以跟你台電領50萬你告訴我除了他之外還有誰你告訴我\n委員如果需要我們就是所有媒體採購的資料我需要我需要你們這幾年所有媒體採購你們4000多萬怎麼標出去的標給了誰成果是什麼樣我講了這個放鹽嘛每一年耶連續4年然後中間變成那個而且都是放鹽科技我剛講標案就叫放鹽科技的這個委託案\n到底哪一個媒體有這麼樣神通廣大,你可不可以告訴我?我就要來看看你們其他的媒體是怎麼樣的,你們標案是什麼樣的形式?因為這些資料基本上審計也會看,大家都會看,就是...是!對啦,是你們台電標完審計也看,一起包庇嘛!這個在媒體根本就是公開的秘密了嘛!台電納稅人是要供養特定媒體嗎?\n王鴻薇委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.674 --> 00:08.435\n主席、台電董事長\n\n00:23.683 --> 00:45.464\n委員好,處理長,我們這個追加預算,其實你們的程序之前是有一些問題的,因為我們到7月份審計部才會審定稅計剩餘,但是你們在5月就提出追加預算,所以你們搞了一個巧門,所以就是先用舉債的方式,\n\n00:46.044 --> 00:59.085\n然後等到7月份合併稅計剩餘,你們才用稅計剩餘。請問一下,那麼我們現在這個追加1000億到底有多少是用取債,多少是一用稅計剩餘?\n\n01:00.731 --> 01:16.282\n因為當初送到院裡頭裡面來的時候我們這個部分是用舉債的那到時候如果我們有稅計剩餘我們就不用舉債也可以直接這樣執行對啊那最後到底是舉債多少稅計剩餘支應多少\n\n01:18.664 --> 01:35.718\n目前這個部分一千億的稅基剩餘是有保留,保留要作為追加之用,那如果說將來這個案子在執行的時候,雖然是有列舉債,但是因為有稅基剩餘．對啊,多少嗎,多少啊,我一直在問,我們有保留一千億\n\n01:37.116 --> 02:00.649\n所以就是說如果這個追加一千億如果是通過的話那麼全數都是一用稅計剩餘那之前那個舉債的部分呢就不舉債了是不是所以呢你們是先設建再劃法嘛就是反正我已經先要追加了那至於我設計剩餘有沒有核定\n\n02:01.249 --> 02:01.369\n王鴻薇議員\n\n02:28.066 --> 02:28.466\n主席王鴻薇\n\n02:47.912 --> 03:03.898\n在你們的報告裡面,包含台電報告,包含主技術報告,過去都是這樣子,一開頭就說這是因為俄烏戰爭,這個國際的能源價格的標高,但是事實上我們可以看到這個國際石油價格的趨勢圖,\n\n03:08.940 --> 03:30.717\n在2022年當時惡霧戰爭開打的時候確實當時的能源價格飆高但是事實上在2022年底就開始整個的價格已經往下盪到現在為止事實上也早就回到惡霧戰爭之前的價格\n\n03:33.104 --> 03:47.485\n所以你們一直在講我已經講過很多次了你們每次都用惡物戰爭來做你們的幌子其實我們現在台電一個嚴重的虧損是來自於我們發電成本的提高嘛\n\n03:48.566 --> 04:15.458\n這個發言成本提高並不是來自於能源價格現在能源價格你可以看到早就回到那個二五戰爭之前反而我們每一次再說我們的成本提高或者是我們的電價調整來我們看下一個圖這個過去在那個總諮詢的時候我也提過我們每一次在提高價格的時候提高電價的時候都來自於我們核電廠的廚藝\n\n04:17.279 --> 04:27.249\n你可以看到嘛（從2022年2021��2021年7月（黃二長一號機退役（然後開始（國內的電價就一直往上升了（\n\n04:28.516 --> 04:39.538\n所以你們今天一直在用所謂的國際能源價格提高這是一種擋箭牌這是一個煙霧彈其實就是因為我們讓核電廠除役而造成的所以這也就為什麼我們一直沒有辦法到現在沒有辦法說服我們要繼續讓你們追加然後明年還要用公務預算繼續的去彌補今年事實上我們好幾次都已經告訴你們了\n\n04:57.901 --> 05:07.067\n這幾年,我們包含之前的增資﹖去年增資﹖去年的撥補﹖一直到今年的增資﹖今年增資也完成了﹖現在是要追加﹖\n\n05:09.090 --> 05:32.578\n按照你們現在的一個估計起碼5000億到明年到明年這個公務預算要5000億那麼你們經濟部長也說不會再那個什麼就是還是會虧損在這樣狀況之下臺電會變成一個無底洞所以這就是我們沒有辦法再繼續如果你的\n\n05:33.980 --> 06:02.910\n人員政策不做調整因為現在河山廠只剩下最後一個機組了嘛最後一個機組你還要繼續的除役那我們真的沒有辦法去同意你這個包含今年的追加跟明天的撥補預算那請問一下那個董事長我們河山廠現在一號機開始除役請問一下我們的河燃料棒已經開始把它運回去了嗎?運出去了嗎?\n\n06:04.380 --> 06:05.661\n對,沒錯,我說還沒有用過的\n\n06:21.076 --> 06:47.545\n還沒用過的沒有運回去啊也都還沒有運回去因為他本來這樣講我們本來就是依照每一次沖田要多少我們就會買多少好所以你們在荷蘭肉棒的部分現在並沒有運出去我們沒有新的就這樣講我們最後一次最後一次填充燃料就把它給用完了剛剛好因為每次都計算他要用到要填充多少燃料都計算好每一次大修\n\n06:48.385 --> 07:01.300\n都會把它計算好放進去你們到現在也沒有再新增加那個購買就是沒有沒用過的燃料棒你們那個二號機組還沒除役啊那個是二號機現在在反應爐裡面\n\n07:03.243 --> 07:05.685\n昨天周玉蔻小姐因為做不實的評論跟新聞說\n\n07:19.652 --> 07:34.821\n張淑娟小姐涉及當年的所謂的長單事件所以呢周玉蔻小姐已經被判刑一年六個月按照這樣的話她應該要去坐牢但是我們過去台電的這個宣傳的費用\n\n07:37.523 --> 07:50.395\n如果看台電宣傳費用過去幾乎年年都會包給放言科技廣告的委刊工作幾乎每一年而且都用限制性招標\n\n07:52.314 --> 08:19.419\n其實被外界質疑說這是不是特定供養在特定的媒體所以我想請問一下因為台電還有明年的預算而且你們的宣傳預算很多我不看不知道4000多萬台電的宣傳預算4000多萬所以我想請教董事長有關於周玉蔻小姐現在已經被判刑一年六個月她過去她也被人家\n\n08:21.129 --> 08:46.727\n告了很多過去大概都是民事讓他賠償但是這次張淑娟小姐她非常憤怒她告他刑事所以現在已經被判刑請問一下台電未來你們還會去把你們的這些宣傳費去給特定媒體給一個已經被法院判刑的判刑事要坐牢的一個媒體嗎\n\n08:49.528 --> 09:16.307\n請回答跟委員報告就是說他基本上這一些合約都是有透過一個採購程序去進行的都限制性招標壓我覺得採購我們只能夠依照採購的過程去做相關的評選我要跟委員報告就是說現在發生的任何狀況都會是評選的一個參考的標準這個事情大概就是如此你提的問題我們的採購對象是一個法人\n\n09:17.208 --> 09:40.504\n也不是自然人,我想說這個要跟委員特別發表。好,你們對於放言這什麼樣的是一個透過所謂的公平2018年2019年2020年2021年中間連續4年你們的標案都叫做放言科技廣告委刊工作\n\n09:41.464 --> 09:53.272\n標案叫做鳳岩科技廣告委刊工作連續4年每年都在50萬上下從2018年47萬2019年49萬2020年50萬到2021年54萬你看金額都差不多他固定要在這邊跟你領薪水啊這叫做是一個公平的標案\n\n10:06.243 --> 10:29.904\n然後到2023年還有所謂的電力科普知識網路推廣一樣啊49萬啊你每一年都要固定給他50萬欸請問哪一家哪一家媒體會透過你的一個所謂公開的標案每一年都可以跟你台電領50萬你告訴我除了他之外還有誰你告訴我\n\n10:31.820 --> 10:58.529\n委員如果需要我們就是所有媒體採購的資料我需要我需要你們這幾年所有媒體採購你們4000多萬怎麼標出去的標給了誰成果是什麼樣我講了這個放鹽嘛每一年耶連續4年然後中間變成那個而且都是放鹽科技我剛講標案就叫放鹽科技的這個委託案\n\n10:59.749 --> 11:23.827\n到底哪一個媒體有這麼樣神通廣大,你可不可以告訴我?我就要來看看你們其他的媒體是怎麼樣的,你們標案是什麼樣的形式?因為這些資料基本上審計也會看,大家都會看,就是...是!對啦,是你們台電標完審計也看,一起包庇嘛!這個在媒體根本就是公開的秘密了嘛!台電納稅人是要供養特定媒體嗎?\n\n11:27.469 --> 11:27.609\n王鴻薇委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.674,"end":8.435,"text":"主席、台電董事長"},{"start":23.683,"end":45.464,"text":"委員好,處理長,我們這個追加預算,其實你們的程序之前是有一些問題的,因為我們到7月份審計部才會審定稅計剩餘,但是你們在5月就提出追加預算,所以你們搞了一個巧門,所以就是先用舉債的方式,"},{"start":46.044,"end":59.085,"text":"然後等到7月份合併稅計剩餘,你們才用稅計剩餘。請問一下,那麼我們現在這個追加1000億到底有多少是用取債,多少是一用稅計剩餘?"},{"start":60.731,"end":76.282,"text":"因為當初送到院裡頭裡面來的時候我們這個部分是用舉債的那到時候如果我們有稅計剩餘我們就不用舉債也可以直接這樣執行對啊那最後到底是舉債多少稅計剩餘支應多少"},{"start":78.664,"end":95.718,"text":"目前這個部分一千億的稅基剩餘是有保留,保留要作為追加之用,那如果說將來這個案子在執行的時候,雖然是有列舉債,但是因為有稅基剩餘．對啊,多少嗎,多少啊,我一直在問,我們有保留一千億"},{"start":97.116,"end":120.649,"text":"所以就是說如果這個追加一千億如果是通過的話那麼全數都是一用稅計剩餘那之前那個舉債的部分呢就不舉債了是不是所以呢你們是先設建再劃法嘛就是反正我已經先要追加了那至於我設計剩餘有沒有核定"},{"start":121.249,"end":121.369,"text":"王鴻薇議員"},{"start":148.066,"end":148.466,"text":"主席王鴻薇"},{"start":167.912,"end":183.898,"text":"在你們的報告裡面,包含台電報告,包含主技術報告,過去都是這樣子,一開頭就說這是因為俄烏戰爭,這個國際的能源價格的標高,但是事實上我們可以看到這個國際石油價格的趨勢圖,"},{"start":188.94,"end":210.717,"text":"在2022年當時惡霧戰爭開打的時候確實當時的能源價格飆高但是事實上在2022年底就開始整個的價格已經往下盪到現在為止事實上也早就回到惡霧戰爭之前的價格"},{"start":213.104,"end":227.485,"text":"所以你們一直在講我已經講過很多次了你們每次都用惡物戰爭來做你們的幌子其實我們現在台電一個嚴重的虧損是來自於我們發電成本的提高嘛"},{"start":228.566,"end":255.458,"text":"這個發言成本提高並不是來自於能源價格現在能源價格你可以看到早就回到那個二五戰爭之前反而我們每一次再說我們的成本提高或者是我們的電價調整來我們看下一個圖這個過去在那個總諮詢的時候我也提過我們每一次在提高價格的時候提高電價的時候都來自於我們核電廠的廚藝"},{"start":257.279,"end":267.249,"text":"你可以看到嘛（從2022年2021��2021年7月（黃二長一號機退役（然後開始（國內的電價就一直往上升了（"},{"start":268.516,"end":279.538,"text":"所以你們今天一直在用所謂的國際能源價格提高這是一種擋箭牌這是一個煙霧彈其實就是因為我們讓核電廠除役而造成的所以這也就為什麼我們一直沒有辦法到現在沒有辦法說服我們要繼續讓你們追加然後明年還要用公務預算繼續的去彌補今年事實上我們好幾次都已經告訴你們了"},{"start":297.901,"end":307.067,"text":"這幾年,我們包含之前的增資﹖去年增資﹖去年的撥補﹖一直到今年的增資﹖今年增資也完成了﹖現在是要追加﹖"},{"start":309.09,"end":332.578,"text":"按照你們現在的一個估計起碼5000億到明年到明年這個公務預算要5000億那麼你們經濟部長也說不會再那個什麼就是還是會虧損在這樣狀況之下臺電會變成一個無底洞所以這就是我們沒有辦法再繼續如果你的"},{"start":333.98,"end":362.91,"text":"人員政策不做調整因為現在河山廠只剩下最後一個機組了嘛最後一個機組你還要繼續的除役那我們真的沒有辦法去同意你這個包含今年的追加跟明天的撥補預算那請問一下那個董事長我們河山廠現在一號機開始除役請問一下我們的河燃料棒已經開始把它運回去了嗎?運出去了嗎?"},{"start":364.38,"end":365.661,"text":"對,沒錯,我說還沒有用過的"},{"start":381.076,"end":407.545,"text":"還沒用過的沒有運回去啊也都還沒有運回去因為他本來這樣講我們本來就是依照每一次沖田要多少我們就會買多少好所以你們在荷蘭肉棒的部分現在並沒有運出去我們沒有新的就這樣講我們最後一次最後一次填充燃料就把它給用完了剛剛好因為每次都計算他要用到要填充多少燃料都計算好每一次大修"},{"start":408.385,"end":421.3,"text":"都會把它計算好放進去你們到現在也沒有再新增加那個購買就是沒有沒用過的燃料棒你們那個二號機組還沒除役啊那個是二號機現在在反應爐裡面"},{"start":423.243,"end":425.685,"text":"昨天周玉蔻小姐因為做不實的評論跟新聞說"},{"start":439.652,"end":454.821,"text":"張淑娟小姐涉及當年的所謂的長單事件所以呢周玉蔻小姐已經被判刑一年六個月按照這樣的話她應該要去坐牢但是我們過去台電的這個宣傳的費用"},{"start":457.523,"end":470.395,"text":"如果看台電宣傳費用過去幾乎年年都會包給放言科技廣告的委刊工作幾乎每一年而且都用限制性招標"},{"start":472.314,"end":499.419,"text":"其實被外界質疑說這是不是特定供養在特定的媒體所以我想請問一下因為台電還有明年的預算而且你們的宣傳預算很多我不看不知道4000多萬台電的宣傳預算4000多萬所以我想請教董事長有關於周玉蔻小姐現在已經被判刑一年六個月她過去她也被人家"},{"start":501.129,"end":526.727,"text":"告了很多過去大概都是民事讓他賠償但是這次張淑娟小姐她非常憤怒她告他刑事所以現在已經被判刑請問一下台電未來你們還會去把你們的這些宣傳費去給特定媒體給一個已經被法院判刑的判刑事要坐牢的一個媒體嗎"},{"start":529.528,"end":556.307,"text":"請回答跟委員報告就是說他基本上這一些合約都是有透過一個採購程序去進行的都限制性招標壓我覺得採購我們只能夠依照採購的過程去做相關的評選我要跟委員報告就是說現在發生的任何狀況都會是評選的一個參考的標準這個事情大概就是如此你提的問題我們的採購對象是一個法人"},{"start":557.208,"end":580.504,"text":"也不是自然人,我想說這個要跟委員特別發表。好,你們對於放言這什麼樣的是一個透過所謂的公平2018年2019年2020年2021年中間連續4年你們的標案都叫做放言科技廣告委刊工作"},{"start":581.464,"end":593.272,"text":"標案叫做鳳岩科技廣告委刊工作連續4年每年都在50萬上下從2018年47萬2019年49萬2020年50萬到2021年54萬你看金額都差不多他固定要在這邊跟你領薪水啊這叫做是一個公平的標案"},{"start":606.243,"end":629.904,"text":"然後到2023年還有所謂的電力科普知識網路推廣一樣啊 49萬啊你每一年都要固定給他50萬欸請問哪一家哪一家媒體會透過你的一個所謂公開的標案每一年都可以跟你台電領50萬你告訴我除了他之外還有誰你告訴我"},{"start":631.82,"end":658.529,"text":"委員如果需要我們就是所有媒體採購的資料我需要我需要你們這幾年所有媒體採購你們4000多萬怎麼標出去的標給了誰成果是什麼樣我講了這個放鹽嘛每一年耶連續4年然後中間變成那個而且都是放鹽科技我剛講標案就叫放鹽科技的這個委託案"},{"start":659.749,"end":683.827,"text":"到底哪一個媒體有這麼樣神通廣大,你可不可以告訴我?我就要來看看你們其他的媒體是怎麼樣的,你們標案是什麼樣的形式?因為這些資料基本上審計也會看,大家都會看,就是...是!對啦,是你們台電標完審計也看,一起包庇嘛!這個在媒體根本就是公開的秘密了嘛!台電納稅人是要供養特定媒體嗎?"},{"start":687.469,"end":687.609,"text":"王鴻薇委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":647,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（11時36分）謝謝主席，我請主計長及台電董事長。"],["主席：請主計長及台電董事長。"],["陳主計長淑姿：委員好。"],["王委員鴻薇：主計長，對於這個追加預算，其實你們的程序之前是有一些問題的，因為我們到7月份審計部才會審定歲計賸餘，但是你們在5月就提出追加預算，所以你們搞了一個巧門，就是先用舉債的方式，然後等到7月份核定歲計賸餘，你們才用歲計賸餘。請問我們現在追加1,000億，到底有多少是用舉債？多少是用歲計賸餘？"],["陳主計長淑姿：當初送到院裡頭的時候，我們這個部分是用舉債，到時候如果我們有歲計賸餘，我們就不用舉債，也可以直接這樣執行。"],["王委員鴻薇：對啊，那最後到底舉債多少？歲計賸餘支應多少？"],["陳主計長淑姿：目前這個部分1,000億的歲計賸餘是有保留，保留要作為追加之用，如果將來這個案子在執行的時候，雖然是有列舉債，但是因為有歲計賸餘是可以……"],["王委員鴻薇：所以是多少啊？我一直在問你究竟多少，你已經耗我好多時間。"],["陳主計長淑姿：我們有保留1,000億。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以如果追加1,000億通過的話，那麼全數都是用歲計賸餘？"],["陳主計長淑姿：是。"],["王委員鴻薇：那之前那個舉債的部分呢？"],["陳主計長淑姿：就不舉債了。"],["王委員鴻薇：就不舉債了是不是？"],["陳主計長淑姿：是。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以你們是先射箭再畫靶嘛，就是反正已經先要追加了，至於歲計賸餘有沒有核定及核定多少，都在不確定的狀況之下就先行追加，在程序上變成先射箭再畫靶。通常要用歲計賸餘應該先核定，且要核定多少，我用歲計賸餘再追加多少，但是現在就是不管，就是先追加1,000億，然後再去用歲計賸餘，我必須講這個程序事實上是不正常的程序啊！變成你今天就是要追加了，是不是？"],["陳主計長淑姿：報告委員，我說明一下。因為這個部分追加是有其需求，我們是針對需求，先行用舉債的方式來辦理，但是等到審定之後，我們有歲計賸餘就可以來做調節。"],["王委員鴻薇：另外，在你們的報告裡面，包含台電報告、包含主計處報告，過去都是這樣子，一開頭就說這是因為俄烏戰爭造成國際能源價格飆高。事實上，我們可以看到國際石油價格的趨勢圖，在2022年當時俄烏戰爭開打的時候，確實當時的能源價格飆高，但是，在2022年底整個價格就開始往下down，事實上到現在為止也早就回到俄烏戰爭之前的價格。我已經講過很多次了，你們每次都用俄烏戰爭來做你們的幌子，其實現在台電一個嚴重的虧損是來自於發電成本的提高，發電成本提高並不是來自於能源價格，因為現在能源價格你可以看到早就回到俄烏戰爭之前。反而我們每一次在說成本提高，或者是電價調整，我們來看下一個圖，過去我在總質詢的時候也提過，我們每一次在提高電價的時候，都來自於核電廠的除役。","從2021年7月核二廠1號機退役，然後開始國內的電價就一直往上升了，所以你們今天一直在用所謂的國際能源價格提高，這是一種擋箭牌，這是一個煙霧彈，其實就是因為我們讓核電廠除役而造成的。所以這也是為什麼一直到現在沒有辦法說服我們要繼續讓你們追加的原因，然後明年還要用公務預算繼續去彌補。事實上，我們好幾次都已經告訴你們，這幾年我們包含之前的增資，去年增資，去年的撥補，一直到今年的增資，今年增資也完成了，現在是要追加嘛，按照你們現在的估計，到明年公務預算起碼要5,000億。你們經濟部長也說還是會虧損，在這樣狀況之下台電會變成一個無底洞，所以這就是我們沒有辦法再繼續，如果你的能源政策不做調整，因為現在核三廠只剩下最後一個機組了，最後一個機組你還要繼續除役，那我們真的沒有辦法去同意包含今年的追加跟明年的撥補預算。","請問一下董事長，現在核三廠1號機開始除役，請問核燃料棒已經開始把它運出去了嗎？"],["曾董事長文生：跟委員報告，基本上，我們幾乎都是計算用多少才買多少，所以沒有用的其實是非常有限，現在用過核燃料棒是在燃料池，有部分還在……"],["王委員鴻薇：對，沒錯，我說還沒有用過的。"],["曾董事長文生：還沒有用過的沒有運回去啊！"],["王委員鴻薇：也都還沒有運回去？"],["曾董事長文生：對，這樣講好了，我們本來就是依照每次充填要多少，我們就會買多少。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，所以在核燃料棒的部分，你們現在並沒有運出去。"],["曾董事長文生：我們沒有新的，我這樣講，我們最後一次……"],["王委員鴻薇：你們也沒有新增加？"],["曾董事長文生：最後一次填充燃料就把它給用完了，剛剛好，因為每次要用到填充多少燃料都會計算好，每次大修都會把它計算好放進去。"],["王委員鴻薇：你們到現在也沒有再新增加購買？"],["曾董事長文生：沒有沒用過的燃料棒。"],["王委員鴻薇：你們的2號機組還沒除役啊！"],["曾董事長文生：那個是2號機，現在在反應爐裡面。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以目前都沒有？"],["曾董事長文生：就裝在裡面。"],["王委員鴻薇：另外一個議題，我今天早上陪張淑娟小姐召開記者會，昨天周玉蔻小姐因為做不實的評論跟新聞，說張淑娟小姐涉及當年所謂的滾床單事件，所以周玉蔻小姐已經被判刑一年六個月，按照這樣的話，他應該要去坐牢。但是過去台電的宣傳費用，我們看台電宣傳費用過去幾乎年年都會包給放言科技廣告委刊工作，幾乎每一年，而且都用限制性招標，其實被外界質疑這是不是供養特定的媒體。因為台電還有明年的預算，而且你們的宣傳預算很多，我不看不知道有四千多萬耶，台電的宣傳預算四千多萬，所以我想請教董事長，有關於周玉蔻小姐現在已經被判刑一年六個月，他過去也被人家告了很多，過去大概都是民事讓他賠償，但是這次張淑娟小姐非常憤怒，他告的是刑事，所以現在周玉蔻已經被判刑。請問台電未來還會把這些宣傳費給特定媒體，給一個已經被法院判刑事要坐牢的媒體嗎？請回答。"],["曾董事長文生：跟委員報告，基本上這一些合約都是有透過採購程序去進行。"],["王委員鴻薇：都限制性招標呀！"],["曾董事長文生：我們只能夠依照採購的過程做相關的評選，我要跟委員報告的是，現在發生的任何狀況都會是評選的一個參考標準，這個事情大概就是如此，你提的問題，我們的採購對象是一個法人，也不是自然人，我想跟委員特別報告。"],["王委員鴻薇：你們對於放言是怎麼樣透過所謂的公平作為？2018年、2019年、2020年、2021年，中間連續4年，你們的標案都叫「放言科技廣告委刊工作」，標案叫做「放言科技廣告委刊工作」，連續4年，每一年都在50萬上下，從2018年47萬，2019年49萬，2020年50萬，到2021年54萬，你看金額都差不多，它固定要在這邊跟你領薪水啊！這叫做公平的標案？然後到2023年還有所謂的電力科普知識網路推廣，一樣啊，49萬啊！你每一年都要固定給它50萬耶！請問哪一家媒體會透過你所謂公開的標案？每一年都可以跟台電領50萬，你告訴我，除了它之外還有誰？你告訴我！"],["曾董事長文生：委員如果需要我們所有媒體採購的資料，我們會給。"],["王委員鴻薇：我需要！你們這幾年所有媒體採購，你們的四千多萬怎麼標出去的？標給了誰？成果是什麼樣？我講了這個放言嘛！每一年耶，連續4年，而且都是放言科技，我剛剛講標案就叫放言科技的委託案，到底哪一個媒體這麼樣神通廣大，你可不可以告訴我？我就要看看你們其他的媒體是怎麼樣的？你們的標案是什麼樣形式？"],["曾董事長文生：因為這些資料基本上審計也會看，大家都會看，就是……"],["王委員鴻薇：對啦！你們台電標完，審計也看，一起包庇嘛！"],["主席：請台電把資料提供給王鴻薇委員。"],["王委員鴻薇：這個在媒體根本就是公開的秘密了嘛！"],["曾董事長文生：我們可以提供資料給委員。"],["王委員鴻薇：是要納稅人供養特定媒體嗎？你們這樣，我剛才這樣子唸下來，這不是供養特定媒體嗎？"],["主席：謝謝王委員。"],["王委員鴻薇：主席，稍等一下，最後一句話，請你們把媒體採購相關的資料，你們一年四千多萬，將近5,000萬元，你怎麼採購的，提供給我們，讓我們看一下，好不好？"],["主席：請台電提供給王鴻薇委員，謝謝。","接著請鄭天財委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":96,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-2-20,19-1","speakers":["賴惠員","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","賴瑞隆","顏寬恒","鄭正鈐","張啓楷","陳玉珍","陳亭妃","黃珊珊","李坤城","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","王鴻薇","蔡易餘","楊瓊瓔","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","羅明才","邱志偉","葉元之","牛煦庭","洪孟楷","黃國昌","邱議瑩","王世堅","陳超明"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-27"],"gazette_id":"11310701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310701_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政、經濟委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算追加預算案","agenda_id":"11310701_00001"}}}