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0.0}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 659.811, \"end\": 659.851, \"score\": 0.282}, {\"word\": \"央\", \"start\": 659.851, \"end\": 659.871, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 659.871, \"end\": 660.091, \"score\": 0.792}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 660.091, \"end\": 660.532, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 660.532, \"end\": 660.552, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 689.842, \"end\": 689.863, \"score\": 0.126}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,249 --> 00:00:07,255\n請克制任委員質詢好,謝謝招募,我們是不是請院長好,院長請好,院長早我想延續我們剛剛的話題因為百年故宮這個真的是非常重要的一個指標那我們現在要問為什麼百歲的故宮不如九十歲的一個風華那這個部分其實有很多的數據可以呈現出來你看在十年前我們的故宮\n\n2\n00:00:29,371 --> 00:00:32,273\n說實在那時候的人數是540萬之多當然有很多的時代的一個背景但是我們還是不免要緬懷過去10年前你看2015還獲得世界博物館人氣排行榜的第6名這是何等的一個光榮這是台灣之光可是你看看曾幾何時你看我們歷屆的參觀的人數從過去500多萬我們先不要講太久到113年11月的時候你看才達到155萬2000多\n\n3\n00:00:58,931 --> 00:01:01,071\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管\n\n4\n00:01:25,296 --> 00:01:44,811\n不愛故宮了還是故宮在這一塊的宣傳沒有做得太好?你覺得真正的原因是什麼?如果委員看前面那張投影片的話當然可以知道從2019疫情之後整個下滑最低的時候到41萬人次那現在的話當然拉回來的話以目前來講的話南院大概是90...將近90萬\n\n5\n00:01:47,113 --> 00:01:49,214\n總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案\n\n6\n00:02:14,343 --> 00:02:15,384\n一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管\n\n7\n00:02:30,812 --> 00:02:48,284\n所以說你會發現整個從109到11年我這要指出來就是你們的通路承銷商的整體的銷售額是下降的過去大家對於這個故宮的文物是非常非常的熱愛但是呢你雖然說疫情你可能說國外觀光客你可能說入客等等之類但我們總認為你應該在這個時候更努力開發你的文創商品啊\n\n8\n00:02:52,927 --> 00:02:53,307\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算\n\n9\n00:03:34,802 --> 00:03:42,748\n這是很可惜的你這麼多人才來幫你做可是你會發現你看這個新一代的設計產權你的競爭然後你的這個部分來說的話可是你竟然有49%的地方好不好你竟然有28件換了沒有辦法變成衍生商品這是怎麼一回事辦都辦了為什麼沒有把它變成更加的一個開發\n\n10\n00:03:58,017 --> 00:04:19,187\n跟委員報告,就是學生的設計競賽的話基本上是鼓勵學生去從事設計可是設計出來的作品的話,其實我們要媒合廠商能不能開發,能不能經濟效益還是一句話啦,好啦,那個院長,這個我們在預算審查社會好好來部分我還是一個強調,故宮文物的藝術發展基金過去是一隻金雞母這個金雞母現在3比8了,已經瘦巴巴的了\n\n11\n00:04:23,029 --> 00:04:24,731\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管\n\n12\n00:04:41,527 --> 00:04:42,627\n一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案\n\n13\n00:04:59,634 --> 00:05:00,774\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術\n\n14\n00:05:22,202 --> 00:05:22,242\n議員主席\n\n15\n00:05:38,663 --> 00:05:40,724\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案\n\n16\n00:06:03,351 --> 00:06:28,309\n八位委員那個審議的部分是歸審議的部分目前編列的經費的話就是我們北院的圖書文獻大樓、研究大樓不是啦我現在只問你嘛我現在只問你那一句嘛你等下解凍了這兩千萬當中你會不會認為北市的文資審議會會不會通過你有沒有跟他做溝通還是你們得到內部的消息你有把握他會不會通過基本上來講我們當然有溝通我們跟那個但是呢結果呢\n\n17\n00:06:29,978 --> 00:06:35,263\n現在就是還是要經過專家審議12月19號如果審議不通過的話目前的經費都沒有還沒有編到那個證管的部分好那我們就來看目前的經費嘛因為我現在大家還是有的你說你那時候我問過你說你要尊重專業其實我們也問過很多專業的一個問題嘛現在目前為止你降低玻璃的高度你的問題還是沒有辦法\n\n18\n00:06:52,179 --> 00:06:53,980\n審查114年度中央政府總預算審查114年度中央政府總預算審查114年度中央政府總預算審查114年度\n\n19\n00:07:22,096 --> 00:07:23,417\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算\n\n20\n00:07:46,952 --> 00:07:49,093\n二、處理或審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案\n\n21\n00:08:07,236 --> 00:08:08,818\n三、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算\n\n22\n00:08:20,616 --> 00:08:39,717\n沒有四樓咖啡廳有啊你給會員啊明明就出現在你們這個地方你要給你們會員嘛很多但是我只要強調一下你說給你的故宮會員專屬的沒有是有你們的誤會嗎還是怎麼樣也許過去有討論過但起碼我到過以後那你就這裡啊你就就就就寫在這裡啊\n\n23\n00:08:41,178 --> 00:08:41,898\n二、處理或審查114年度中央政府總預算\n\n24\n00:08:57,927 --> 00:08:58,648\n委員我要澄清一下\n\n25\n00:09:12,321 --> 00:09:21,605\n面板上面講的話四樓會員空間跟右邊那個二樓咖啡廳這是兩塊所以說有沒有專屬的會員使用的空間沒有完全沒有是不是那就把這個部分把它釐清澄清一下因為我看到這個部分看得很細節還有包括你的剛剛說的旅行的費用以小虧大我還是要問一下你看出國的經費因為我們現在審預算\n\n26\n00:09:39,053 --> 00:09:40,254\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案\n\n27\n00:10:02,244 --> 00:10:04,366\n議長寫也給我們寫得好一點好不好而且文物基金會你增加了51.3萬然後你還寫到一個2025要去參加日本國際旅展這是交通部的地緣政治是國防部的或是外交部的然後呢2025要義大利的波羅納的童書展那是吳政院的\n\n28\n00:10:23,948 --> 00:10:29,670\n所以你寫這個東西到底對這樣的一個東西到底有什麼我只是提出來這個部分你在編寫這些預算的時候你不覺得應該花一些時間它的最主要的目的是什麼你讓大家覺得這些都不是你們家的業務那它背後的原因是什麼你可不可以澄清清楚否則我在質詢預算的時候我會想下來跟你們做進一步的探討好不好寫這個部分你理由是要運用人很多的時候去宣傳故宮嗎是這個理由嗎\n\n29\n00:10:52,202 --> 00:10:52,503\n二、審查114年度\n\n30\n00:10:59,451 --> 00:11:00,552\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算\n\n31\n00:11:29,842 --> 00:11:29,863\n好,謝謝。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n249\t7255\t請克制任委員質詢好,謝謝招募,我們是不是請院長好,院長請好,院長早我想延續我們剛剛的話題因為百年故宮這個真的是非常重要的一個指標那我們現在要問為什麼百歲的故宮不如九十歲的一個風華那這個部分其實有很多的數據可以呈現出來你看在十年前我們的故宮\n29371\t32273\t說實在那時候的人數是540萬之多當然有很多的時代的一個背景但是我們還是不免要緬懷過去10年前你看2015還獲得世界博物館人氣排行榜的第6名這是何等的一個光榮這是台灣之光可是你看看曾幾何時你看我們歷屆的參觀的人數從過去500多萬我們先不要講太久到113年11月的時候你看才達到155萬2000多\n58931\t61071\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管\n85296\t104811\t不愛故宮了還是故宮在這一塊的宣傳沒有做得太好?你覺得真正的原因是什麼?如果委員看前面那張投影片的話當然可以知道從2019疫情之後整個下滑最低的時候到41萬人次那現在的話當然拉回來的話以目前來講的話南院大概是90...將近90萬\n107113\t109214\t總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案\n134343\t135384\t一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管\n150812\t168284\t所以說你會發現整個從109到11年我這要指出來就是你們的通路承銷商的整體的銷售額是下降的過去大家對於這個故宮的文物是非常非常的熱愛但是呢你雖然說疫情你可能說國外觀光客你可能說入客等等之類但我們總認為你應該在這個時候更努力開發你的文創商品啊\n172927\t173307\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算\n195009\t214582\t議員議員議員\n214802\t222748\t這是很可惜的你這麼多人才來幫你做可是你會發現你看這個新一代的設計產權你的競爭然後你的這個部分來說的話可是你竟然有49%的地方好不好你竟然有28件換了沒有辦法變成衍生商品這是怎麼一回事辦都辦了為什麼沒有把它變成更加的一個開發\n238017\t259187\t跟委員報告,就是學生的設計競賽的話基本上是鼓勵學生去從事設計可是設計出來的作品的話,其實我們要媒合廠商能不能開發,能不能經濟效益還是一句話啦,好啦,那個院長,這個我們在預算審查社會好好來部分我還是一個強調,故宮文物的藝術發展基金過去是一隻金雞母這個金雞母現在3比8了,已經瘦巴巴的了\n263029\t264731\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管\n281527\t282627\t一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案\n299634\t300774\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術\n322202\t322242\t議員主席\n338663\t340724\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案\n363351\t388309\t八位委員那個審議的部分是歸審議的部分目前編列的經費的話就是我們北院的圖書文獻大樓、研究大樓不是啦我現在只問你嘛我現在只問你那一句嘛你等下解凍了這兩千萬當中你會不會認為北市的文資審議會會不會通過你有沒有跟他做溝通還是你們得到內部的消息你有把握他會不會通過基本上來講我們當然有溝通我們跟那個但是呢結果呢\n389978\t395263\t現在就是還是要經過專家審議12月19號如果審議不通過的話目前的經費都沒有還沒有編到那個證管的部分好那我們就來看目前的經費嘛因為我現在大家還是有的你說你那時候我問過你說你要尊重專業其實我們也問過很多專業的一個問題嘛現在目前為止你降低玻璃的高度你的問題還是沒有辦法\n412179\t413980\t審查114年度中央政府總預算審查114年度中央政府總預算審查114年度中央政府總預算審查114年度\n442096\t443417\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算\n466952\t469093\t二、處理或審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案\n487236\t488818\t三、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算\n500616\t519717\t沒有四樓咖啡廳有啊你給會員啊明明就出現在你們這個地方你要給你們會員嘛很多但是我只要強調一下你說給你的故宮會員專屬的沒有是有你們的誤會嗎還是怎麼樣也許過去有討論過但起碼我到過以後那你就這裡啊你就就就就寫在這裡啊\n521178\t521898\t二、處理或審查114年度中央政府總預算\n537927\t538648\t委員我要澄清一下\n552321\t561605\t面板上面講的話四樓會員空間跟右邊那個二樓咖啡廳這是兩塊所以說有沒有專屬的會員使用的空間沒有完全沒有是不是那就把這個部分把它釐清澄清一下因為我看到這個部分看得很細節還有包括你的剛剛說的旅行的費用以小虧大我還是要問一下你看出國的經費因為我們現在審預算\n579053\t580254\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案\n602244\t604366\t議長寫也給我們寫得好一點好不好而且文物基金會你增加了51.3萬然後你還寫到一個2025要去參加日本國際旅展這是交通部的地緣政治是國防部的或是外交部的然後呢2025要義大利的波羅納的童書展那是吳政院的\n623948\t629670\t所以你寫這個東西到底對這樣的一個東西到底有什麼我只是提出來這個部分你在編寫這些預算的時候你不覺得應該花一些時間它的最主要的目的是什麼你讓大家覺得這些都不是你們家的業務那它背後的原因是什麼你可不可以澄清清楚否則我在質詢預算的時候我會想下來跟你們做進一步的探討好不好寫這個部分你理由是要運用人很多的時候去宣傳故宮嗎是這個理由嗎\n652202\t652503\t二、審查114年度\n659451\t660552\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算\n689842\t689863\t好,謝謝。\n","txt":"請克制任委員質詢好,謝謝招募,我們是不是請院長好,院長請好,院長早我想延續我們剛剛的話題因為百年故宮這個真的是非常重要的一個指標那我們現在要問為什麼百歲的故宮不如九十歲的一個風華那這個部分其實有很多的數據可以呈現出來你看在十年前我們的故宮\n說實在那時候的人數是540萬之多當然有很多的時代的一個背景但是我們還是不免要緬懷過去10年前你看2015還獲得世界博物館人氣排行榜的第6名這是何等的一個光榮這是台灣之光可是你看看曾幾何時你看我們歷屆的參觀的人數從過去500多萬我們先不要講太久到113年11月的時候你看才達到155萬2000多\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管\n不愛故宮了還是故宮在這一塊的宣傳沒有做得太好?你覺得真正的原因是什麼?如果委員看前面那張投影片的話當然可以知道從2019疫情之後整個下滑最低的時候到41萬人次那現在的話當然拉回來的話以目前來講的話南院大概是90...將近90萬\n總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案\n一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管\n所以說你會發現整個從109到11年我這要指出來就是你們的通路承銷商的整體的銷售額是下降的過去大家對於這個故宮的文物是非常非常的熱愛但是呢你雖然說疫情你可能說國外觀光客你可能說入客等等之類但我們總認為你應該在這個時候更努力開發你的文創商品啊\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算\n議員議員議員\n這是很可惜的你這麼多人才來幫你做可是你會發現你看這個新一代的設計產權你的競爭然後你的這個部分來說的話可是你竟然有49%的地方好不好你竟然有28件換了沒有辦法變成衍生商品這是怎麼一回事辦都辦了為什麼沒有把它變成更加的一個開發\n跟委員報告,就是學生的設計競賽的話基本上是鼓勵學生去從事設計可是設計出來的作品的話,其實我們要媒合廠商能不能開發,能不能經濟效益還是一句話啦,好啦,那個院長,這個我們在預算審查社會好好來部分我還是一個強調,故宮文物的藝術發展基金過去是一隻金雞母這個金雞母現在3比8了,已經瘦巴巴的了\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管\n一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術\n議員主席\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案\n八位委員那個審議的部分是歸審議的部分目前編列的經費的話就是我們北院的圖書文獻大樓、研究大樓不是啦我現在只問你嘛我現在只問你那一句嘛你等下解凍了這兩千萬當中你會不會認為北市的文資審議會會不會通過你有沒有跟他做溝通還是你們得到內部的消息你有把握他會不會通過基本上來講我們當然有溝通我們跟那個但是呢結果呢\n現在就是還是要經過專家審議12月19號如果審議不通過的話目前的經費都沒有還沒有編到那個證管的部分好那我們就來看目前的經費嘛因為我現在大家還是有的你說你那時候我問過你說你要尊重專業其實我們也問過很多專業的一個問題嘛現在目前為止你降低玻璃的高度你的問題還是沒有辦法\n審查114年度中央政府總預算審查114年度中央政府總預算審查114年度中央政府總預算審查114年度\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算\n二、處理或審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案\n三、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算\n沒有四樓咖啡廳有啊你給會員啊明明就出現在你們這個地方你要給你們會員嘛很多但是我只要強調一下你說給你的故宮會員專屬的沒有是有你們的誤會嗎還是怎麼樣也許過去有討論過但起碼我到過以後那你就這裡啊你就就就就寫在這裡啊\n二、處理或審查114年度中央政府總預算\n委員我要澄清一下\n面板上面講的話四樓會員空間跟右邊那個二樓咖啡廳這是兩塊所以說有沒有專屬的會員使用的空間沒有完全沒有是不是那就把這個部分把它釐清澄清一下因為我看到這個部分看得很細節還有包括你的剛剛說的旅行的費用以小虧大我還是要問一下你看出國的經費因為我們現在審預算\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案\n議長寫也給我們寫得好一點好不好而且文物基金會你增加了51.3萬然後你還寫到一個2025要去參加日本國際旅展這是交通部的地緣政治是國防部的或是外交部的然後呢2025要義大利的波羅納的童書展那是吳政院的\n所以你寫這個東西到底對這樣的一個東西到底有什麼我只是提出來這個部分你在編寫這些預算的時候你不覺得應該花一些時間它的最主要的目的是什麼你讓大家覺得這些都不是你們家的業務那它背後的原因是什麼你可不可以澄清清楚否則我在質詢預算的時候我會想下來跟你們做進一步的探討好不好寫這個部分你理由是要運用人很多的時候去宣傳故宮嗎是這個理由嗎\n二、審查114年度\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算\n好,謝謝。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.249 --> 00:07.255\n請克制任委員質詢好,謝謝招募,我們是不是請院長好,院長請好,院長早我想延續我們剛剛的話題因為百年故宮這個真的是非常重要的一個指標那我們現在要問為什麼百歲的故宮不如九十歲的一個風華那這個部分其實有很多的數據可以呈現出來你看在十年前我們的故宮\n\n00:29.371 --> 00:32.273\n說實在那時候的人數是540萬之多當然有很多的時代的一個背景但是我們還是不免要緬懷過去10年前你看2015還獲得世界博物館人氣排行榜的第6名這是何等的一個光榮這是台灣之光可是你看看曾幾何時你看我們歷屆的參觀的人數從過去500多萬我們先不要講太久到113年11月的時候你看才達到155萬2000多\n\n00:58.931 --> 01:01.071\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管\n\n01:25.296 --> 01:44.811\n不愛故宮了還是故宮在這一塊的宣傳沒有做得太好?你覺得真正的原因是什麼?如果委員看前面那張投影片的話當然可以知道從2019疫情之後整個下滑最低的時候到41萬人次那現在的話當然拉回來的話以目前來講的話南院大概是90...將近90萬\n\n01:47.113 --> 01:49.214\n總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案\n\n02:14.343 --> 02:15.384\n一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管\n\n02:30.812 --> 02:48.284\n所以說你會發現整個從109到11年我這要指出來就是你們的通路承銷商的整體的銷售額是下降的過去大家對於這個故宮的文物是非常非常的熱愛但是呢你雖然說疫情你可能說國外觀光客你可能說入客等等之類但我們總認為你應該在這個時候更努力開發你的文創商品啊\n\n02:52.927 --> 02:53.307\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算\n\n03:34.802 --> 03:42.748\n這是很可惜的你這麼多人才來幫你做可是你會發現你看這個新一代的設計產權你的競爭然後你的這個部分來說的話可是你竟然有49%的地方好不好你竟然有28件換了沒有辦法變成衍生商品這是怎麼一回事辦都辦了為什麼沒有把它變成更加的一個開發\n\n03:58.017 --> 04:19.187\n跟委員報告,就是學生的設計競賽的話基本上是鼓勵學生去從事設計可是設計出來的作品的話,其實我們要媒合廠商能不能開發,能不能經濟效益還是一句話啦,好啦,那個院長,這個我們在預算審查社會好好來部分我還是一個強調,故宮文物的藝術發展基金過去是一隻金雞母這個金雞母現在3比8了,已經瘦巴巴的了\n\n04:23.029 --> 04:24.731\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管\n\n04:41.527 --> 04:42.627\n一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案\n\n04:59.634 --> 05:00.774\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術\n\n05:22.202 --> 05:22.242\n議員主席\n\n05:38.663 --> 05:40.724\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案\n\n06:03.351 --> 06:28.309\n八位委員那個審議的部分是歸審議的部分目前編列的經費的話就是我們北院的圖書文獻大樓、研究大樓不是啦我現在只問你嘛我現在只問你那一句嘛你等下解凍了這兩千萬當中你會不會認為北市的文資審議會會不會通過你有沒有跟他做溝通還是你們得到內部的消息你有把握他會不會通過基本上來講我們當然有溝通我們跟那個但是呢結果呢\n\n06:29.978 --> 06:35.263\n現在就是還是要經過專家審議12月19號如果審議不通過的話目前的經費都沒有還沒有編到那個證管的部分好那我們就來看目前的經費嘛因為我現在大家還是有的你說你那時候我問過你說你要尊重專業其實我們也問過很多專業的一個問題嘛現在目前為止你降低玻璃的高度你的問題還是沒有辦法\n\n06:52.179 --> 06:53.980\n審查114年度中央政府總預算審查114年度中央政府總預算審查114年度中央政府總預算審查114年度\n\n07:22.096 --> 07:23.417\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算\n\n07:46.952 --> 07:49.093\n二、處理或審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案\n\n08:07.236 --> 08:08.818\n三、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算\n\n08:20.616 --> 08:39.717\n沒有四樓咖啡廳有啊你給會員啊明明就出現在你們這個地方你要給你們會員嘛很多但是我只要強調一下你說給你的故宮會員專屬的沒有是有你們的誤會嗎還是怎麼樣也許過去有討論過但起碼我到過以後那你就這裡啊你就就就就寫在這裡啊\n\n08:41.178 --> 08:41.898\n二、處理或審查114年度中央政府總預算\n\n08:57.927 --> 08:58.648\n委員我要澄清一下\n\n09:12.321 --> 09:21.605\n面板上面講的話四樓會員空間跟右邊那個二樓咖啡廳這是兩塊所以說有沒有專屬的會員使用的空間沒有完全沒有是不是那就把這個部分把它釐清澄清一下因為我看到這個部分看得很細節還有包括你的剛剛說的旅行的費用以小虧大我還是要問一下你看出國的經費因為我們現在審預算\n\n09:39.053 --> 09:40.254\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案\n\n10:02.244 --> 10:04.366\n議長寫也給我們寫得好一點好不好而且文物基金會你增加了51.3萬然後你還寫到一個2025要去參加日本國際旅展這是交通部的地緣政治是國防部的或是外交部的然後呢2025要義大利的波羅納的童書展那是吳政院的\n\n10:23.948 --> 10:29.670\n所以你寫這個東西到底對這樣的一個東西到底有什麼我只是提出來這個部分你在編寫這些預算的時候你不覺得應該花一些時間它的最主要的目的是什麼你讓大家覺得這些都不是你們家的業務那它背後的原因是什麼你可不可以澄清清楚否則我在質詢預算的時候我會想下來跟你們做進一步的探討好不好寫這個部分你理由是要運用人很多的時候去宣傳故宮嗎是這個理由嗎\n\n10:52.202 --> 10:52.503\n二、審查114年度\n\n10:59.451 --> 11:00.552\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算\n\n11:29.842 --> 11:29.863\n好,謝謝。\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.249,"end":7.255,"text":"請克制任委員質詢好,謝謝招募,我們是不是請院長好,院長請好,院長早我想延續我們剛剛的話題因為百年故宮這個真的是非常重要的一個指標那我們現在要問為什麼百歲的故宮不如九十歲的一個風華那這個部分其實有很多的數據可以呈現出來你看在十年前我們的故宮"},{"start":29.371,"end":32.273,"text":"說實在那時候的人數是540萬之多當然有很多的時代的一個背景但是我們還是不免要緬懷過去10年前你看2015還獲得世界博物館人氣排行榜的第6名這是何等的一個光榮這是台灣之光可是你看看曾幾何時你看我們歷屆的參觀的人數從過去500多萬我們先不要講太久到113年11月的時候你看才達到155萬2000多"},{"start":58.931,"end":61.071,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":85.296,"end":104.811,"text":"不愛故宮了還是故宮在這一塊的宣傳沒有做得太好?你覺得真正的原因是什麼?如果委員看前面那張投影片的話當然可以知道從2019疫情之後整個下滑最低的時候到41萬人次那現在的話當然拉回來的話以目前來講的話南院大概是90...將近90萬"},{"start":107.113,"end":109.214,"text":"總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":134.343,"end":135.384,"text":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":150.812,"end":168.284,"text":"所以說你會發現整個從109到11年我這要指出來就是你們的通路承銷商的整體的銷售額是下降的過去大家對於這個故宮的文物是非常非常的熱愛但是呢你雖然說疫情你可能說國外觀光客你可能說入客等等之類但我們總認為你應該在這個時候更努力開發你的文創商品啊"},{"start":172.927,"end":173.307,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":195.009,"end":214.582,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":214.802,"end":222.748,"text":"這是很可惜的你這麼多人才來幫你做可是你會發現你看這個新一代的設計產權你的競爭然後你的這個部分來說的話可是你竟然有49%的地方好不好你竟然有28件換了沒有辦法變成衍生商品這是怎麼一回事辦都辦了為什麼沒有把它變成更加的一個開發"},{"start":238.017,"end":259.187,"text":"跟委員報告,就是學生的設計競賽的話基本上是鼓勵學生去從事設計可是設計出來的作品的話,其實我們要媒合廠商能不能開發,能不能經濟效益還是一句話啦,好啦,那個院長,這個我們在預算審查社會好好來部分我還是一個強調,故宮文物的藝術發展基金過去是一隻金雞母這個金雞母現在3比8了,已經瘦巴巴的了"},{"start":263.029,"end":264.731,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":281.527,"end":282.627,"text":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":299.634,"end":300.774,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術"},{"start":322.202,"end":322.242,"text":"議員主席"},{"start":338.663,"end":340.724,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":363.351,"end":388.309,"text":"八位委員那個審議的部分是歸審議的部分目前編列的經費的話就是我們北院的圖書文獻大樓、研究大樓不是啦我現在只問你嘛我現在只問你那一句嘛你等下解凍了這兩千萬當中你會不會認為北市的文資審議會會不會通過你有沒有跟他做溝通還是你們得到內部的消息你有把握他會不會通過基本上來講我們當然有溝通我們跟那個但是呢結果呢"},{"start":389.978,"end":395.263,"text":"現在就是還是要經過專家審議12月19號如果審議不通過的話目前的經費都沒有還沒有編到那個證管的部分好那我們就來看目前的經費嘛因為我現在大家還是有的你說你那時候我問過你說你要尊重專業其實我們也問過很多專業的一個問題嘛現在目前為止你降低玻璃的高度你的問題還是沒有辦法"},{"start":412.179,"end":413.98,"text":"審查114年度中央政府總預算審查114年度中央政府總預算審查114年度中央政府總預算審查114年度"},{"start":442.096,"end":443.417,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算"},{"start":466.952,"end":469.093,"text":"二、處理或審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":487.236,"end":488.818,"text":"三、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":500.616,"end":519.717,"text":"沒有四樓咖啡廳有啊你給會員啊明明就出現在你們這個地方你要給你們會員嘛很多但是我只要強調一下你說給你的故宮會員專屬的沒有是有你們的誤會嗎還是怎麼樣也許過去有討論過但起碼我到過以後那你就這裡啊你就就就就寫在這裡啊"},{"start":521.178,"end":521.898,"text":"二、處理或審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":537.927,"end":538.648,"text":"委員我要澄清一下"},{"start":552.321,"end":561.605,"text":"面板上面講的話四樓會員空間跟右邊那個二樓咖啡廳這是兩塊所以說有沒有專屬的會員使用的空間沒有完全沒有是不是那就把這個部分把它釐清澄清一下因為我看到這個部分看得很細節還有包括你的剛剛說的旅行的費用以小虧大我還是要問一下你看出國的經費因為我們現在審預算"},{"start":579.053,"end":580.254,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":602.244,"end":604.366,"text":"議長寫也給我們寫得好一點好不好而且文物基金會你增加了51.3萬然後你還寫到一個2025要去參加日本國際旅展這是交通部的地緣政治是國防部的或是外交部的然後呢2025要義大利的波羅納的童書展那是吳政院的"},{"start":623.948,"end":629.67,"text":"所以你寫這個東西到底對這樣的一個東西到底有什麼我只是提出來這個部分你在編寫這些預算的時候你不覺得應該花一些時間它的最主要的目的是什麼你讓大家覺得這些都不是你們家的業務那它背後的原因是什麼你可不可以澄清清楚否則我在質詢預算的時候我會想下來跟你們做進一步的探討好不好寫這個部分你理由是要運用人很多的時候去宣傳故宮嗎是這個理由嗎"},{"start":652.202,"end":652.503,"text":"二、審查114年度"},{"start":659.451,"end":660.552,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":689.842,"end":689.863,"text":"好,謝謝。"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":474,"blocks":[["柯委員志恩：（9時27分）謝謝召委，我們是不是請院長。"],["主席：院長請。"],["蕭院長宗煌：委員早！"],["柯委員志恩：院長早！我想延續剛剛的話題，因為百年故宮真的是非常重要的一個指標，我們接著要問，為什麼百歲故宮不如90歲風華？這個部分其實有很多的數據可以呈現出來，你看10年前我們的故宮，說實在，那時候的人數是540萬之多，當然有很多的時代背景，但是我們還是不免要緬懷過去10年前，你看2015年還獲得世界博物館人氣排行榜的第六名，這是何等的光榮，這是臺灣之光！可是你看看，曾幾何時，我們歷年參觀的人數從過去五百多萬，我們先不要講太久，到113年11月的時候才達到一百五十五萬兩千多，當然原本故宮已經計畫南、北院目標是350萬人，但是今天北院155萬加上南院80萬，也才235萬，距離你的目標值其實還差了一百多萬，是不是？院長，這個目標值只要一算出來、一加減出來，你就發現跟你當初所預定的方向是有一大段距離的，院長，你覺得是大家不愛故宮了，還是故宮在這一塊的宣傳沒有做得太好，你覺得真正的原因是什麼？"],["蕭院長宗煌：如果委員看前面那一張投影片的話，當然可以知道從2019疫情之後整個下滑，最低的時候到41萬人次，現在當然有拉回來，以目前來講，南院大概是將近90萬，北院的話是168萬。"],["柯委員志恩：不是，院長，到疫情結束之後，顯然整個人數都還是沒有回升，我們從預算來看，參觀如果不如預期，當然會影響到故宮的營收嘛！你看門票收入，2017年的時候還編了12.3億，到明年只編4億，所以疫情前門票收入10億到目前為止，門票就可以看出完全沒有恢復以前的水準。","過去大家認為你們的文物基金還有剩餘1.8億，對不對？108年的時候一億一千多，但是到了110年的時候決算就短絀了三千五百多萬，所以你會發現整個從109到111年，我要指出來的就是你們的通路承銷商整體銷售額下降，過去大家對於故宮的文物是非常、非常熱愛，但是你雖然說疫情、你可能說國外觀光客、你可能說陸客等等之類，但我們總認為你應該在這個時候更努力開發你的文創商品，要來增加你的亮點，做好行銷，你反而是因為遊客變少，這一塊你要著墨，可是再看看你的權利金收入真的是不好，然後重點是你委託合作的承銷商數是近5年來最低，院長，我的意思是你們要很努力，可是你們的承銷商數額竟然是最低，而且你們網路商城的銷售，說實在你的決算也完全往下降，而且重點是我要特別直指一個重點，你辦理國寶衍生商品的設計競賽，很好！還有設計競賽，我們現在人才非常的多，有超過五成的得獎作品沒有把它開發成衍生性文創商品，那你辦這個在幹嘛？這是很可惜的，這麼多人才來幫你做，可是你會發現新一代的設計產學，競爭的部分來說的話，你竟然有49%、28件沒有辦法變成衍生商品，這是怎麼一回事？辦都辦了，為什麼沒有把它變成更佳的開發？"],["蕭院長宗煌：跟委員報告，就是學生的設計競賽的話，基本上是鼓勵學生從事設計，可是設計出來的作品，其實我們要媒合廠商能不能開發、能不能具有經濟效益……"],["柯委員志恩：還是一句話，好了，院長，這個我們在預算審查的時候會好好來討論，我還是強調故宮文物的藝術發展基金過去是一隻金雞母，這個金雞母現在「瘦卑巴」了，已經瘦巴巴了，過去常常幫你們故宮營造非常多的產值，目前來說，真的屢次下降，這個部分你們勢必要提出檢討。"],["蕭院長宗煌：是，跟委員報告，當然沒有錯，因為疫情讓整個收支下降，新的開發廠商也會觀望，所以這個部分的話……"],["柯委員志恩：還有剛剛誠如孟楷委員所提到的，其實100年是一個非常好的時間點，包括郵票或是金條，那都不是普羅大眾會做到的，你只不過就是把故宮的元素放進來，一個小小的旅行帶的外面有「朕知道了」或什麼，那個都是引領風潮的，往這個方面去做，有這麼多優秀的成品，把它做一些所謂的改裝、再製，它是可以創造的，好不好？"],["蕭院長宗煌：好。"],["柯委員志恩：給一些大家比較可以買得上手的，而不是一個這麼樣層次太高的。"],["蕭院長宗煌：是。"],["柯委員志恩：好了，剩下的時間我還是要問一下有關於新故宮計畫，這個部分來說的話，新故宮計畫原本107年到112年總經費是101億，今年總經費又要開始增加為107億，所以你看看是增加多少？增加了五億八千多萬，整個增幅是44.98%。"],["蕭院長宗煌：報告委員，這個是在核定修正計畫，我到的時候已經核定了。"],["柯委員志恩：對，但是我要特別講，明年的18.8億有沒有辦法執行得完？我們等一下還要來解凍，解凍113年新故宮的2,000萬，我只問一句話嘛！因為新故宮最主要是你的玻璃入口的修正計畫，你有把握臺北市的文資審議會會通過嗎？因為我們等一下要解凍啊！這件事很重要，你有把握文資局會通過嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：報告委員，審議是歸審議的部分，目前編列經費的話，我們北院的圖書文獻大樓、研究大樓，與南院的國寶館……"],["柯委員志恩：不是啦！我現在只問你那一句嘛！你等一下解凍的這2,000萬當中，你認為北市的文資審議會會不會通過？你有沒有跟它做溝通？還是你們得到內部的消息，你有把握它會不會通過？"],["蕭院長宗煌：基本上來講，我們當然有溝通，我們跟文化資產……"],["柯委員志恩：但是結果呢？"],["蕭院長宗煌：現在還是要經過專家審議，並不是用溝通就可以……"],["柯委員志恩：12月19號如果審議不通過的話，那這個部分等於又被卡住。"],["蕭院長宗煌：目前的經費都還沒有編到正館的部分。"],["柯委員志恩：好，那我們就來看目前的經費，因為現在大家還是有……那時候我問過，你說你要尊重專業，其實我們也問過很多專業的問題，現在你降低玻璃的高度，目前為止，你的問題還是沒有辦法解決，而且那時候我記得院長已經不斷的告訴我說，那是你尊重專業，但是故宮有沒有自己的意見？我們先看下面一個圖，非常多人，因為故宮給我非常多遠眺的部分，我只要求故宮在入口亭完成之後，你覺得站在這個前面，你說不會擋住，你們都給我一個空拍圖，我現在只問，故宮可不可以給我做一個模擬圖，讓我站在這個前面，這邊有一個玻璃簾幕有沒有辦法把故宮的整個場景全部遮蓋住？我覺得這才是重點嘛！你不要每次給我空拍圖，看不出所以然，我要的是每個人在這個地方。"],["蕭院長宗煌：我們有動態模擬圖。"],["柯委員志恩：好，給我一個，我要做模擬，因為我要看得出會不會因為這樣子遮住故宮的全景？因為已經有太多學者專家認為，不要每次都拿羅浮宮，那個跟臺灣是不能比，因為我們臺灣不管緯度、氣候等等，還有包括節能減碳等等都已經不斷地提出呼籲，我覺得故宮要有自己的說法，不是建築師原創是怎麼樣就是怎麼樣。","時間的關係，我再問一下，4樓三希堂的地板真的要敲出八角洞，我記得上次你說完全不會嘛！對不對？"],["蕭院長宗煌：沒有、沒有，沒有敲出八角……"],["柯委員志恩：好，所以說沒有，然後你就說現在已經確定是不會用了嘛！對不對？確定？"],["蕭院長宗煌：三希堂原則上都不會動。"],["柯委員志恩：所以說安全結構問題，我再問一下，4樓咖啡廳是給會員專用嗎？你們在第113頁的地方，給會員用的？"],["蕭院長宗煌：沒有4樓咖啡廳。"],["柯委員志恩：有啊！你給會員，明明就出現在你們這個地方，你要給你們會員嘛！但是我只要強調一下，你說給故宮會員專屬的。"],["蕭院長宗煌：沒有……"],["柯委員志恩：是你們有誤會嗎？還是怎麼樣？"],["蕭院長宗煌：也許過去有討論過，但起碼我到了以後，從來沒有……"],["柯委員志恩：就這裡啊！就寫在這裡啊！"],["蕭院長宗煌：那應該是舊的計畫書。"],["柯委員志恩：你送一個舊的計畫書給我喔？現在是怎樣？你送一個舊的給我，然後我在這邊質問你，你告訴我那是舊的，我只強調一點，文化是權利，不是福利。"],["蕭院長宗煌：2樓沒有，4樓沒有咖啡廳……"],["柯委員志恩：回去了解一下。院長，我只強調一件事情，文化是權利，不是福利，它應該是廣闢給人，我也覺得有故宮之友很好，但是在門票、在很多導覽的部分……"],["蕭院長宗煌：委員，我要澄清一下，因為面板上面講的，4樓會員空間跟右邊的2樓咖啡廳，這是兩塊，4樓沒有咖啡廳。"],["柯委員志恩：好，所以有沒有專屬的會員使用空間？"],["蕭院長宗煌：沒有。"],["柯委員志恩：完全沒有是不是？"],["蕭院長宗煌：沒有。"],["柯委員志恩：那就把這個部分釐清、澄清一下，因為我這個部分看得很細節，還有包括你剛剛說的旅行費用，以小窺大，我還是要問一下，你看出國的經費，因為我們現在要審預算嘛！我覺得出國預算都沒有問題，但是你們的寫法，你看考察地緣政治的圖像：東亞國際外交的合縱連橫，拜託！地緣政治、國際外交、合縱連橫，這是你們博物館該做的事嗎？寫法可不可以寫得更清楚一下？而且要是東亞國際，英國是東亞嗎？院長，寫也寫得好一點，好不好？還有文物基金會增加了51.3萬，然後你還寫到2025年要去參加日本國際旅展，這是交通部的；地緣政治是國防部的或是外交部的；然後2025年義大利波隆那童書展，那是文策院的，所以你寫這個到底對這樣的東西有什麼……我只是提出來這個部分，你在編寫這些預算的時候，你不覺得應該花一些時間在它最重要的目的是什麼？你讓大家覺得這些都不是你們家的業務，它背後的原因是什麼？你可不可以澄清清楚？否則我在質詢預算的時候，我會詳細跟你們做進一步的探討。"],["蕭院長宗煌：OK，好，這個我們會處理。"],["柯委員志恩：好不好？寫這個部分的理由是要利用人很多的時候去宣傳故宮嗎？是這個理由嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：不是，因為波隆那的部分，我們希望跟他們出版商的童書合作，把故宮的文物改變成可以上國際市場的一個……"],["柯委員志恩：那你國際旅展也都是這個部分。然後你的地緣政治到底要幹嘛？前面那一頁的地緣政治寫了這麼多，合縱連橫，看的我都說故宮目前在什麼地方。"],["蕭院長宗煌：那是一個跟英國單位合作的……"],["柯委員志恩：寫清楚、寫清楚，你不要每次一列出來就跟我們要這些錢，你的預算書裡面，很多人都會看得很細節的，好不好？院長。"],["蕭院長宗煌：是，我們會給委員一個書面說明。"],["柯委員志恩：更清楚的目的，好不好？謝謝。"],["蕭院長宗煌：好。"],["主席：謝謝柯志恩委員。"],["主席（柯委員志恩代）：我們現在請萬美玲召委。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":210,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-11","speakers":["萬美玲","洪孟楷","柯志恩","葛如鈞","陳培瑜","林倩綺","陳秀寳","葉元之","羅廷瑋","林宜瑾","吳春城","郭昱晴","張雅琳","吳沛憶","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":131,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311001_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案；二、審查114年度中央政府\n總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案；三、處理或審查 113\n年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管預算（公務預算）解凍案3案（第一案及第二案僅\n進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11311001_00004"}}}