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{\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"央\", \"start\": 33.865, \"end\": 34.045, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"廣\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 34.045, \"end\": 34.125, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"寶\"}, {\"word\": \"島\"}, {\"word\": \"聯\"}, {\"word\": \"播\", \"start\": 34.125, \"end\": 34.145, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"網\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}]}, {\"start\": 45.293, \"end\": 61.827, \"text\": \"那當然中間還有比較重大的事件比如說10月15你在馬祖拋出所謂的二六共識還要說要送這個對岸和平之路這個梅花路10月24號是電台報導全世界11月4號是一地獨立的專訪11月9號是民視新聞觀測站11月13是這個王時期的其有之禮11月20號是匯流新聞網這個角色\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 45.293, \"end\": 45.854, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 45.854, \"end\": 45.974, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 45.974, \"end\": 46.334, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 46.334, \"end\": 46.514, \"score\": 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00:00:27,862\n兩位早安我們今天要討論一下這個你們兩位之間的分工跟兩個單位之間現在的這個跑位的狀況我先請教這個羅副董事長日宇從就任到現在你接受過多少場專訪上過多少場節目我基本上原則如果有媒體朋友需要了解海基會相關業務的話他們主動邀訪如果我時間可以我就會接你大概上了幾場你有沒有算過\n\n2\n00:00:29,021 --> 00:00:34,145\n我沒有仔細算過,也許這個委員可以提供。我來唸一下。對,是,謝謝。8月22號您上這個陳水扁前總統微笑電台專訪。8月28是中時的專訪。9月24央廣。10月21寶島聯播網。\n\n3\n00:00:45,293 --> 00:01:01,827\n那當然中間還有比較重大的事件比如說10月15你在馬祖拋出所謂的二六共識還要說要送這個對岸和平之路這個梅花路10月24號是電台報導全世界11月4號是一地獨立的專訪11月9號是民視新聞觀測站11月13是這個王時期的其有之禮11月20號是匯流新聞網這個角色\n\n4\n00:01:10,814 --> 00:01:20,180\n在董事長、主委跟你之間好像你的角色是最鮮明的這個是你們三個商量好的這個戰術跟跑位的一個方式嗎?\n\n5\n00:01:23,011 --> 00:01:45,545\n跟委員報告我想我們海基會被政府作為唯一有授予公權力委託的執行單位那麼他積極的對外去說明他的業務那我們對於祕書長積極認識我們表示肯定表示肯定這個就本席的了解啦\n\n6\n00:01:45,885 --> 00:02:01,031\n按照陸委會跟海基會的角色分工按照兩岸人民關係條例陸委會跟海基會的業務基本上是陸委會抓總對海基會行監督跟指導的責任確保海基會執行政策和政府委託業務的時候能夠\n\n7\n00:02:02,512 --> 00:02:05,255\n二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財\n\n8\n00:02:21,529 --> 00:02:22,349\n三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財\n\n9\n00:02:41,863 --> 00:02:46,286\n二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財\n\n10\n00:03:10,404 --> 00:03:14,186\n二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財\n\n11\n00:03:33,274 --> 00:03:36,516\n三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財\n\n12\n00:04:02,472 --> 00:04:04,715\n二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財\n\n13\n00:04:18,755 --> 00:04:20,096\n二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財\n\n14\n00:04:46,259 --> 00:04:48,520\n二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財\n\n15\n00:05:07,924 --> 00:05:09,346\n二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財\n\n16\n00:05:24,286 --> 00:05:25,166\n三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財\n\n17\n00:05:47,535 --> 00:06:13,317\n羅副董事長這一段時間的專訪我感覺到氛圍的改變因為前面的時候其實我感受到民進黨似乎想在兩岸關係上釋出一些善意不管是所謂的二六共識啊或者是什麼也好前面都講應該要這個這個衝突的局勢要放緩兩邊之間要多一點溝通但是同時你也在不同的節目上講不同的話比如說你又講說送人家和平之路後來你又講說在天安門廣場有人比V就會被帶走\n\n18\n00:06:13,817 --> 00:06:42,754\n你講中央大陸裡面有五失人員、投資失敗、生活失意、關心失和、心理失常、精神失常,所以社會很危險。我的意思是說,如果要由羅秘書長來主動發球,這當然是你們分工的其中的戰術考量,但你發球的慣性跟邏輯性是什麼?你的目標是什麼?為什麼你有的時候好像要降溫,有的時候又好像講出一些對方也許會不高興,也要影響交流的話,請你說明一下。學院委員確實看出了關鍵點,我用四個字回答,就是不卑不亢。\n\n19\n00:06:44,363 --> 00:06:46,504\n三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財\n\n20\n00:07:09,775 --> 00:07:11,777\n三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財\n\n21\n00:07:23,843 --> 00:07:26,726\n三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財\n\n22\n00:07:50,667 --> 00:08:16,151\n記者會問現在中國大陸的狀況我們會根據我們的資料然後以上的稱呼都不是我們自創都是來自中國內部的報導和相關資料所以不是我們創的所以講出事實對台灣是好的就像我們講最近剛剛有委員局要一貫道問題如果我們一直不證實這件事情會更多國人誤觸避雷所以講出事實是很重要的只是要提醒\n\n23\n00:08:16,551 --> 00:08:36,213\n今天既然你們選擇了這樣一個分工模式那當然你就有連續的曝光的機會那也許久而久之啦這個對岸就把你視為主要的對話窗口跟委員報告那你的講話就很重要嘛政策主導部分我們每個禮拜四下午的政策由我們梁文傑副主委擔任發言人\n\n24\n00:08:36,733 --> 00:08:38,774\n二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財\n\n25\n00:09:02,881 --> 00:09:08,904\n二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財\n\n26\n00:09:30,235 --> 00:09:52,873\n我希望這個部分你們什麼時候可以看到這個良善的大門打開或什麼時候我們可以把和平之路送出去最後一個問題你們有心理有打算嗎有想法嗎我想這個看對岸要不要收啦我們的善意不過委員擔心了我們兩個會不會有海陸大戰這個不用講了我們是海陸一家然後只會給我們國人是海陸大餐謝謝好謝謝\n\n27\n00:09:58,778 --> 00:10:00,029\n接下來請王美惠委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3030\t27862\t兩位早安我們今天要討論一下這個你們兩位之間的分工跟兩個單位之間現在的這個跑位的狀況我先請教這個羅副董事長日宇從就任到現在你接受過多少場專訪上過多少場節目我基本上原則如果有媒體朋友需要了解海基會相關業務的話他們主動邀訪如果我時間可以我就會接你大概上了幾場你有沒有算過\n29021\t34145\t我沒有仔細算過,也許這個委員可以提供。我來唸一下。對,是,謝謝。8月22號您上這個陳水扁前總統微笑電台專訪。8月28是中時的專訪。9月24央廣。10月21寶島聯播網。\n45293\t61827\t那當然中間還有比較重大的事件比如說10月15你在馬祖拋出所謂的二六共識還要說要送這個對岸和平之路這個梅花路10月24號是電台報導全世界11月4號是一地獨立的專訪11月9號是民視新聞觀測站11月13是這個王時期的其有之禮11月20號是匯流新聞網這個角色\n70814\t80180\t在董事長、主委跟你之間好像你的角色是最鮮明的這個是你們三個商量好的這個戰術跟跑位的一個方式嗎?\n83011\t105545\t跟委員報告我想我們海基會被政府作為唯一有授予公權力委託的執行單位那麼他積極的對外去說明他的業務那我們對於祕書長積極認識我們表示肯定表示肯定 這個就本席的了解啦\n105885\t121031\t按照陸委會跟海基會的角色分工按照兩岸人民關係條例陸委會跟海基會的業務基本上是陸委會抓總對海基會行監督跟指導的責任確保海基會執行政策和政府委託業務的時候能夠\n122512\t125255\t二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財\n141529\t142349\t三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財\n161863\t166286\t二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財\n190404\t194186\t二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財\n213274\t216516\t三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財\n242472\t244715\t二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財\n258755\t260096\t二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財\n286259\t288520\t二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財\n307924\t309346\t二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財\n324286\t325166\t三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財\n347535\t373317\t羅副董事長這一段時間的專訪我感覺到氛圍的改變因為前面的時候其實我感受到民進黨似乎想在兩岸關係上釋出一些善意不管是所謂的二六共識啊或者是什麼也好前面都講應該要這個這個衝突的局勢要放緩兩邊之間要多一點溝通但是同時你也在不同的節目上講不同的話比如說你又講說送人家和平之路後來你又講說在天安門廣場有人比V就會被帶走\n373817\t402754\t你講中央大陸裡面有五失人員、投資失敗、生活失意、關心失和、心理失常、精神失常,所以社會很危險。我的意思是說,如果要由羅秘書長來主動發球,這當然是你們分工的其中的戰術考量,但你發球的慣性跟邏輯性是什麼?你的目標是什麼?為什麼你有的時候好像要降溫,有的時候又好像講出一些對方也許會不高興,也要影響交流的話,請你說明一下。學院委員確實看出了關鍵點,我用四個字回答,就是不卑不亢。\n404363\t406504\t三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財\n429775\t431777\t三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財\n443843\t446726\t三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財\n470667\t496151\t記者會問現在中國大陸的狀況我們會根據我們的資料然後以上的稱呼都不是我們自創都是來自中國內部的報導和相關資料所以不是我們創的所以講出事實對台灣是好的就像我們講最近剛剛有委員局要一貫道問題如果我們一直不證實這件事情會更多國人誤觸避雷所以講出事實是很重要的只是要提醒\n496551\t516213\t今天既然你們選擇了這樣一個分工模式那當然你就有連續的曝光的機會那也許久而久之啦這個對岸就把你視為主要的對話窗口跟委員報告那你的講話就很重要嘛政策主導部分我們每個禮拜四下午的政策由我們梁文傑副主委擔任發言人\n516733\t518774\t二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財\n542881\t548904\t二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財\n570235\t592873\t我希望這個部分你們什麼時候可以看到這個良善的大門打開或什麼時候我們可以把和平之路送出去最後一個問題你們有心理有打算嗎有想法嗎我想這個看對岸要不要收啦我們的善意不過委員擔心了我們兩個會不會有海陸大戰這個不用講了我們是海陸一家然後只會給我們國人是海陸大餐謝謝好謝謝\n598778\t600029\t接下來請王美惠委員\n","txt":"兩位早安我們今天要討論一下這個你們兩位之間的分工跟兩個單位之間現在的這個跑位的狀況我先請教這個羅副董事長日宇從就任到現在你接受過多少場專訪上過多少場節目我基本上原則如果有媒體朋友需要了解海基會相關業務的話他們主動邀訪如果我時間可以我就會接你大概上了幾場你有沒有算過\n我沒有仔細算過,也許這個委員可以提供。我來唸一下。對,是,謝謝。8月22號您上這個陳水扁前總統微笑電台專訪。8月28是中時的專訪。9月24央廣。10月21寶島聯播網。\n那當然中間還有比較重大的事件比如說10月15你在馬祖拋出所謂的二六共識還要說要送這個對岸和平之路這個梅花路10月24號是電台報導全世界11月4號是一地獨立的專訪11月9號是民視新聞觀測站11月13是這個王時期的其有之禮11月20號是匯流新聞網這個角色\n在董事長、主委跟你之間好像你的角色是最鮮明的這個是你們三個商量好的這個戰術跟跑位的一個方式嗎?\n跟委員報告我想我們海基會被政府作為唯一有授予公權力委託的執行單位那麼他積極的對外去說明他的業務那我們對於祕書長積極認識我們表示肯定表示肯定 這個就本席的了解啦\n按照陸委會跟海基會的角色分工按照兩岸人民關係條例陸委會跟海基會的業務基本上是陸委會抓總對海基會行監督跟指導的責任確保海基會執行政策和政府委託業務的時候能夠\n二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財\n三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財\n二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財\n二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財\n三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財\n二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財\n二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財\n二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財\n二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財\n三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財\n羅副董事長這一段時間的專訪我感覺到氛圍的改變因為前面的時候其實我感受到民進黨似乎想在兩岸關係上釋出一些善意不管是所謂的二六共識啊或者是什麼也好前面都講應該要這個這個衝突的局勢要放緩兩邊之間要多一點溝通但是同時你也在不同的節目上講不同的話比如說你又講說送人家和平之路後來你又講說在天安門廣場有人比V就會被帶走\n你講中央大陸裡面有五失人員、投資失敗、生活失意、關心失和、心理失常、精神失常,所以社會很危險。我的意思是說,如果要由羅秘書長來主動發球,這當然是你們分工的其中的戰術考量,但你發球的慣性跟邏輯性是什麼?你的目標是什麼?為什麼你有的時候好像要降溫,有的時候又好像講出一些對方也許會不高興,也要影響交流的話,請你說明一下。學院委員確實看出了關鍵點,我用四個字回答,就是不卑不亢。\n三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財\n三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財\n三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財\n記者會問現在中國大陸的狀況我們會根據我們的資料然後以上的稱呼都不是我們自創都是來自中國內部的報導和相關資料所以不是我們創的所以講出事實對台灣是好的就像我們講最近剛剛有委員局要一貫道問題如果我們一直不證實這件事情會更多國人誤觸避雷所以講出事實是很重要的只是要提醒\n今天既然你們選擇了這樣一個分工模式那當然你就有連續的曝光的機會那也許久而久之啦這個對岸就把你視為主要的對話窗口跟委員報告那你的講話就很重要嘛政策主導部分我們每個禮拜四下午的政策由我們梁文傑副主委擔任發言人\n二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財\n二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財\n我希望這個部分你們什麼時候可以看到這個良善的大門打開或什麼時候我們可以把和平之路送出去最後一個問題你們有心理有打算嗎有想法嗎我想這個看對岸要不要收啦我們的善意不過委員擔心了我們兩個會不會有海陸大戰這個不用講了我們是海陸一家然後只會給我們國人是海陸大餐謝謝好謝謝\n接下來請王美惠委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.030 --> 00:27.862\n兩位早安我們今天要討論一下這個你們兩位之間的分工跟兩個單位之間現在的這個跑位的狀況我先請教這個羅副董事長日宇從就任到現在你接受過多少場專訪上過多少場節目我基本上原則如果有媒體朋友需要了解海基會相關業務的話他們主動邀訪如果我時間可以我就會接你大概上了幾場你有沒有算過\n\n00:29.021 --> 00:34.145\n我沒有仔細算過,也許這個委員可以提供。我來唸一下。對,是,謝謝。8月22號您上這個陳水扁前總統微笑電台專訪。8月28是中時的專訪。9月24央廣。10月21寶島聯播網。\n\n00:45.293 --> 01:01.827\n那當然中間還有比較重大的事件比如說10月15你在馬祖拋出所謂的二六共識還要說要送這個對岸和平之路這個梅花路10月24號是電台報導全世界11月4號是一地獨立的專訪11月9號是民視新聞觀測站11月13是這個王時期的其有之禮11月20號是匯流新聞網這個角色\n\n01:10.814 --> 01:20.180\n在董事長、主委跟你之間好像你的角色是最鮮明的這個是你們三個商量好的這個戰術跟跑位的一個方式嗎?\n\n01:23.011 --> 01:45.545\n跟委員報告我想我們海基會被政府作為唯一有授予公權力委託的執行單位那麼他積極的對外去說明他的業務那我們對於祕書長積極認識我們表示肯定表示肯定這個就本席的了解啦\n\n01:45.885 --> 02:01.031\n按照陸委會跟海基會的角色分工按照兩岸人民關係條例陸委會跟海基會的業務基本上是陸委會抓總對海基會行監督跟指導的責任確保海基會執行政策和政府委託業務的時候能夠\n\n02:02.512 --> 02:05.255\n二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財\n\n02:21.529 --> 02:22.349\n三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財\n\n02:41.863 --> 02:46.286\n二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財\n\n03:10.404 --> 03:14.186\n二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財\n\n03:33.274 --> 03:36.516\n三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財\n\n04:02.472 --> 04:04.715\n二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財\n\n04:18.755 --> 04:20.096\n二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財\n\n04:46.259 --> 04:48.520\n二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財\n\n05:07.924 --> 05:09.346\n二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財\n\n05:24.286 --> 05:25.166\n三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財\n\n05:47.535 --> 06:13.317\n羅副董事長這一段時間的專訪我感覺到氛圍的改變因為前面的時候其實我感受到民進黨似乎想在兩岸關係上釋出一些善意不管是所謂的二六共識啊或者是什麼也好前面都講應該要這個這個衝突的局勢要放緩兩邊之間要多一點溝通但是同時你也在不同的節目上講不同的話比如說你又講說送人家和平之路後來你又講說在天安門廣場有人比V就會被帶走\n\n06:13.817 --> 06:42.754\n你講中央大陸裡面有五失人員、投資失敗、生活失意、關心失和、心理失常、精神失常,所以社會很危險。我的意思是說,如果要由羅秘書長來主動發球,這當然是你們分工的其中的戰術考量,但你發球的慣性跟邏輯性是什麼?你的目標是什麼?為什麼你有的時候好像要降溫,有的時候又好像講出一些對方也許會不高興,也要影響交流的話,請你說明一下。學院委員確實看出了關鍵點,我用四個字回答,就是不卑不亢。\n\n06:44.363 --> 06:46.504\n三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財\n\n07:09.775 --> 07:11.777\n三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財\n\n07:23.843 --> 07:26.726\n三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財\n\n07:50.667 --> 08:16.151\n記者會問現在中國大陸的狀況我們會根據我們的資料然後以上的稱呼都不是我們自創都是來自中國內部的報導和相關資料所以不是我們創的所以講出事實對台灣是好的就像我們講最近剛剛有委員局要一貫道問題如果我們一直不證實這件事情會更多國人誤觸避雷所以講出事實是很重要的只是要提醒\n\n08:16.551 --> 08:36.213\n今天既然你們選擇了這樣一個分工模式那當然你就有連續的曝光的機會那也許久而久之啦這個對岸就把你視為主要的對話窗口跟委員報告那你的講話就很重要嘛政策主導部分我們每個禮拜四下午的政策由我們梁文傑副主委擔任發言人\n\n08:36.733 --> 08:38.774\n二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財\n\n09:02.881 --> 09:08.904\n二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財\n\n09:30.235 --> 09:52.873\n我希望這個部分你們什麼時候可以看到這個良善的大門打開或什麼時候我們可以把和平之路送出去最後一個問題你們有心理有打算嗎有想法嗎我想這個看對岸要不要收啦我們的善意不過委員擔心了我們兩個會不會有海陸大戰這個不用講了我們是海陸一家然後只會給我們國人是海陸大餐謝謝好謝謝\n\n09:58.778 --> 10:00.029\n接下來請王美惠委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.03,"end":27.862,"text":"兩位早安我們今天要討論一下這個你們兩位之間的分工跟兩個單位之間現在的這個跑位的狀況我先請教這個羅副董事長日宇從就任到現在你接受過多少場專訪上過多少場節目我基本上原則如果有媒體朋友需要了解海基會相關業務的話他們主動邀訪如果我時間可以我就會接你大概上了幾場你有沒有算過"},{"start":29.021,"end":34.145,"text":"我沒有仔細算過,也許這個委員可以提供。我來唸一下。對,是,謝謝。8月22號您上這個陳水扁前總統微笑電台專訪。8月28是中時的專訪。9月24央廣。10月21寶島聯播網。"},{"start":45.293,"end":61.827,"text":"那當然中間還有比較重大的事件比如說10月15你在馬祖拋出所謂的二六共識還要說要送這個對岸和平之路這個梅花路10月24號是電台報導全世界11月4號是一地獨立的專訪11月9號是民視新聞觀測站11月13是這個王時期的其有之禮11月20號是匯流新聞網這個角色"},{"start":70.814,"end":80.18,"text":"在董事長、主委跟你之間好像你的角色是最鮮明的這個是你們三個商量好的這個戰術跟跑位的一個方式嗎?"},{"start":83.011,"end":105.545,"text":"跟委員報告我想我們海基會被政府作為唯一有授予公權力委託的執行單位那麼他積極的對外去說明他的業務那我們對於祕書長積極認識我們表示肯定表示肯定 這個就本席的了解啦"},{"start":105.885,"end":121.031,"text":"按照陸委會跟海基會的角色分工按照兩岸人民關係條例陸委會跟海基會的業務基本上是陸委會抓總對海基會行監督跟指導的責任確保海基會執行政策和政府委託業務的時候能夠"},{"start":122.512,"end":125.255,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":141.529,"end":142.349,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":161.863,"end":166.286,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":190.404,"end":194.186,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":213.274,"end":216.516,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":242.472,"end":244.715,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":258.755,"end":260.096,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":286.259,"end":288.52,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":307.924,"end":309.346,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":324.286,"end":325.166,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":347.535,"end":373.317,"text":"羅副董事長這一段時間的專訪我感覺到氛圍的改變因為前面的時候其實我感受到民進黨似乎想在兩岸關係上釋出一些善意不管是所謂的二六共識啊或者是什麼也好前面都講應該要這個這個衝突的局勢要放緩兩邊之間要多一點溝通但是同時你也在不同的節目上講不同的話比如說你又講說送人家和平之路後來你又講說在天安門廣場有人比V就會被帶走"},{"start":373.817,"end":402.754,"text":"你講中央大陸裡面有五失人員、投資失敗、生活失意、關心失和、心理失常、精神失常,所以社會很危險。我的意思是說,如果要由羅秘書長來主動發球,這當然是你們分工的其中的戰術考量,但你發球的慣性跟邏輯性是什麼?你的目標是什麼?為什麼你有的時候好像要降溫,有的時候又好像講出一些對方也許會不高興,也要影響交流的話,請你說明一下。學院委員確實看出了關鍵點,我用四個字回答,就是不卑不亢。"},{"start":404.363,"end":406.504,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":429.775,"end":431.777,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":443.843,"end":446.726,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":470.667,"end":496.151,"text":"記者會問現在中國大陸的狀況我們會根據我們的資料然後以上的稱呼都不是我們自創都是來自中國內部的報導和相關資料所以不是我們創的所以講出事實對台灣是好的就像我們講最近剛剛有委員局要一貫道問題如果我們一直不證實這件事情會更多國人誤觸避雷所以講出事實是很重要的只是要提醒"},{"start":496.551,"end":516.213,"text":"今天既然你們選擇了這樣一個分工模式那當然你就有連續的曝光的機會那也許久而久之啦這個對岸就把你視為主要的對話窗口跟委員報告那你的講話就很重要嘛政策主導部分我們每個禮拜四下午的政策由我們梁文傑副主委擔任發言人"},{"start":516.733,"end":518.774,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":542.881,"end":548.904,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":570.235,"end":592.873,"text":"我希望這個部分你們什麼時候可以看到這個良善的大門打開或什麼時候我們可以把和平之路送出去最後一個問題你們有心理有打算嗎有想法嗎我想這個看對岸要不要收啦我們的善意不過委員擔心了我們兩個會不會有海陸大戰這個不用講了我們是海陸一家然後只會給我們國人是海陸大餐謝謝好謝謝"},{"start":598.778,"end":600.029,"text":"接下來請王美惠委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":2147,"blocks":[["牛委員煦庭：（10時5分）謝謝主席，有請邱主委跟羅秘書長。"],["主席：請主委還有副董事長兼秘書長。"],["邱主任委員垂正：牛委員好。"],["牛委員煦庭：兩位早安。我們今天要討論一下你們兩位之間的分工，跟兩個單位之間現在跑位的狀況，我先請教羅副董事長，從就任到現在，你接受過多少場專訪、上過多少場節目？"],["羅副董事長文嘉：基本上，如果有媒體朋友需要了解海基會相關業務的話，他們主動邀訪，如果時間可以，我就會答應……"],["牛委員煦庭：大概上了幾場你有沒有算過？"],["羅副董事長文嘉：我沒有仔細算過，也許委員可以提供……"],["牛委員煦庭：我來唸一下……"],["羅副董事長文嘉：是，謝謝。"],["牛委員煦庭：8月22號您上了陳水扁前總統微笑電臺專訪；8月28號是中時的專訪；9月24號是在央廣；10月21號是寶島聯播網，當然中間還有一些比較重大的事件，比如說10月15號你在馬祖拋出了所謂二六共識，還說要送對岸「和平之鹿」，也就是梅花鹿；10月24號是在寶島全世界電臺；11月4號是ETtoday的專訪；11月9號是民視新聞觀測站；11月13號是王時齊的齊有此理；11月20號是匯流新聞網。在角色上，董事長、主委跟你之間，好像你的角色是最鮮明的，這是你們三個商量好的戰術跟跑位的一個方式嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，我們海基會被政府作為唯一授予公權力委託執行的單位，它積極對外說明它的業務，所以對於秘書長積極任事，我們表示肯定。"],["牛委員煦庭：表示肯定，好。就本席的了解，關於陸委會跟海基會的角色分工，按照兩岸人民關係條例，陸委會跟海基會的業務，基本上陸委會是抓總的部分，對海基會行監督跟指導的責任，確保海基會執行政策和政府委託業務的時候，能夠符合政策方向跟法律規範。傳統的認知上，為什麼要成立海基會，就是因為海基會是民間單位，當初為了交流方便，所以要善用民間單位的靈活性來做處理，但是兩岸的政策跟官方的立場，應該還是由陸委會來抓總，這樣才對嘛！可是看起來，現在好像有一點點喧賓奪主的味道，主委不會這樣覺得嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們沒有這種感覺啦！因為過去海基會大概就是沉默的服務比較多。"],["牛委員煦庭：沒有談判的時候，不見得是顯性，對不對？"],["邱主任委員垂正：對，但是因為過去大家聚焦海基會在於協商談判，但是它的服務，它在兩岸之間扮演交流的角色……"],["牛委員煦庭：我剛有聽到前面的回答，就是服務案件增加，當初你們來本席辦公室交流的時候，其實也都有提到，這點我表示非常肯定，就是你們不管是對臺商也好，對人民的一些服務，這個都是對的、沒有問題，而且這個也不是本席要問的，但我要講的是今天實際的狀況，看起來是都是我們羅秘書長在拚命的發球，譬如說二六共識跟和平之鹿，事前邱主委知道嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：羅秘書長有跟我講，其實總的……"],["牛委員煦庭：事前講還是事後講？"],["邱主任委員垂正：事前就有講。總的來說，他是希望中國大陸能夠務實面對兩岸關係，能夠正視中華民國客觀事實存在，這才是解決兩岸問題最主要癥結之所在，也希望能夠良性互動，善意堆疊……"],["牛委員煦庭：拋出共識或者是拋出一些善意，比如說和平之鹿這件事情，為什麼不是陸委會講？為什麼是海基會講？你們的戰術考量是什麼，可否說明一下？"],["羅副董事長文嘉：謝謝牛委員，我想重要的是，現在不管是政府部門或受政府委託的海基會，我們在執行交流或是兩岸協商相關政策的時候，其實要讓民眾知道，要得到社會認同……"],["牛委員煦庭：所以是善用你的知名度跟聲量嗎？"],["羅副董事長文嘉：所以我覺得，現在的政府跟社會做更詳細的說明，說明為什麼這麼做、怎麼做、如何做，這是需要的。","第二個，兩岸關係的突破，我認為本會受陸委會之委託，更積極主動掌握話語權，避免掉入一個惡性的循環，我希望有所突破，達成健康有序的交流，這是陸委會賦予我們的職責。基本上從過去到現在，不管在哪個職務上，我都會努力去跟社會做溝通，媒體有需要說明，我也都努力說明，我不迴避。謝謝。"],["牛委員煦庭：我的問題是，為什麼是你來發動？你們兩個當然可以談一些調整分工……"],["羅副董事長文嘉：沒有發不發動的問題……"],["牛委員煦庭：為什麼都是你在發動？現在都是你在拋球，也許你拋球之後國臺辦或什麼單位會回應；回應完之後陸委會才……"],["羅副董事長文嘉：兩個原因：第一個原因，其實我們所有的政策，陸委會還有相關單位每個禮拜都有相關會議做討論，所以海基會是完全在陸委會和國家政策方向下去執行相關業務，這是很確定的第一點。"],["牛委員煦庭：好。"],["羅副董事長文嘉：第二個，基本上，媒體有需要了解的，我覺得掩蓋或是不談，不是件……我看來應該儘量談清楚……"],["牛委員煦庭：你應該積極主動。"],["羅副董事長文嘉：在座所有媒體，剛才你唸了這麼多，沒有一件是我去要求的！沒有一件，沒有一件！"],["牛委員煦庭：他們來找你就對了！好，那我們就回到本質。不管你們兩家之間怎麼分工，誰跑什麼位，誰發什麼球，問題還是要回到核心用意來。剛剛兩位都有講，希望可以理性的、有序的，也許對等尊嚴的來做兩岸交流。但從羅副董事長這一段時間的專訪來看，我有感覺到氛圍的改變。前面的時候我有感受到民進黨政府似乎想在兩岸關係上釋出一些善意，不管是所謂的二六共識或者是什麼也好，前面講衝突的局勢要放緩，兩邊之間要多一點溝通。不過你同時也在不同的節目上講了不同的話，比如說你講要送人家和平之鹿，後來你又講在天安門廣場有人比V就會被帶走。你講中國大陸有五失人員，投資失敗、生活失意、關係失和、心理失衡、精神失常，所以社會很危險。我的意思是，如果要由羅秘書長來主動發球，這當然是你們分工中的戰術考量，但你發球的慣性跟邏輯性是什麼？你的目標是什麼？為什麼你有時候好像要降溫，有時候又好像講出一些對方也許會不高興，會影響交流的話？請說明一下。"],["羅副董事長文嘉：謝謝牛委員，委員確實看出了關鍵點。我用四個字回答，就是不卑不亢！不卑不亢！該堅持的立場我們不能放棄；我們不能同意對岸用所謂接受一個中國為原則，作為兩岸協商的前提……"],["牛委員煦庭：這是你們政策的……"],["羅副董事長文嘉：這是基本立場，不能放棄中華民國的主權……絕對不卑……"],["牛委員煦庭：這個本席尊重，但我要談的是，最後這兩個單位到底有沒有發揮功能？不管陸委會也好，海基會也好，到底核心的政策指導是什麼？你到底還要不要交流？"],["羅副董事長文嘉：健康有序、對等尊嚴、不能自我矮化，然後我們推動交流！"],["牛委員煦庭：到目前為止，不管你講的是什麼，基本上對方的回應好像都非常冷淡或者不愉快，你打算用什麼樣的方式來改變這樣的情況？"],["羅副董事長文嘉：善意的大門、溝通的大門永遠為對岸敞開，但不是在放棄我們國家主權和自由民主體制的前提下。"],["牛委員煦庭：這點本席理解！但我的意思是，你講人家有五失人員，或者講人家國內的事，當然就會被對方……"],["羅副董事長文嘉：報告委員……"],["牛委員煦庭：如果人家侵門踏戶，所以你要強硬回應，這點本席可以理解。"],["羅副董事長文嘉：報告委員，其實這是在記者會中所描述的中國現況，因為每兩個禮拜我們會有記者會，而記者會問現在中國大陸的狀況，我們會根據我們的資料……至於以上的稱呼都不是我們自創，都是來自中國內部的報導和相關資料，不是我們創的。"],["牛委員煦庭：本席的意思是……"],["羅副董事長文嘉：講出事實對臺灣是好的。就像剛剛有委員提到一貫道的問題，如果我們一直不證實這件事，會有更多國人誤觸地雷，所以講出事實是很重要的。"],["牛委員煦庭：本席在這裡只是要提醒，今天既然你們選擇了這樣一個分工模式，當然你就有連續曝光的機會，也許久而久之，對岸就把你視為主要的對話窗口……"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告……"],["牛委員煦庭：你的講話很重要……"],["邱主任委員垂正：政策主導部分，我們每個禮拜四下午由梁文傑副主委擔任發言人，跟媒體記者發布，這個從來沒有中斷過。"],["牛委員煦庭：但曝光的效果好像有一些落差。沒有關係，本席用開放的心態來看待，但我要提醒你，他本來有他的業務分工，而業務分工本來有一定的外交考量，也就是要保持海基會的彈性。如果善意的大門真的打開時，你可以降低政治色彩；但如果今天主客的位置基於你們兩個自己的默契，或協商結果有了不一樣的感覺，讓本來是緩衝機制的海基會變成有比較濃的政治風格，會不會反而影響未來的交流狀況？這是本席要提醒的，時間會給大家答案。第二個要提醒的是，既然羅秘書長有比較多的發言機會，所以他的一貫性跟後面能不能夠有序的導引，來完成我們的政策目標，我想這也是大家要長期監督的，也是審預算時會討論的重點。我希望這個部分……你們什麼時候可以看到良善的大門打開，或什麼時候可以把和平之鹿送出去？這是最後一個問題。你們心裡有打算，有想法嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我想這要看對岸要不要收下我們的善意。不過委員擔心我們兩個會不會有海陸大戰？這個不用講！"],["牛委員煦庭：不會有海陸大戰？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們是海陸一家，只會給我們國人海陸大餐，謝謝。"],["牛委員煦庭：謝謝。"],["主席：接下來請王美惠委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":248,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-13","speakers":["徐欣瑩","張宏陸","麥玉珍","牛煦庭","王美惠","李柏毅","張智倫","黃捷","蘇巧慧","許宇甄","黃建賓","賴士葆","吳琪銘","丁學忠","王義川","葉元之","黃國昌","羅智強","沈伯洋","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會單位預算；三、審查大陸委員會函送財團法\n人海峽交流基金會114年度預算書案；四、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人臺港經濟文化合作策進\n會114年度預算書案【所列預算案僅詢答，另定期處理】","agenda_id":"11311101_00001"}}}