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\"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,282 --> 00:00:31,742\n委員長部長早安現在是一個科技的時代網路的時代所以我們也知道現在的消費習慣已經很習慣很多人尤其是年輕的族群都很習慣用這個電子支付了那我們看一下就是說這個根據統計目前就是說有幾個這個就是電子支付的包括接口支付還有一卡通全支付全音配\n\n2\n00:00:32,242 --> 00:00:32,422\n委員會委員會委員會委員會\n\n3\n00:00:52,295 --> 00:00:52,315\n﹚委員\n\n4\n00:01:08,579 --> 00:01:08,599\n委員．\n\n5\n00:01:34,309 --> 00:01:52,405\n最近幾年就有類似的個案就是在2022年的時候就有民眾因為他的個資不勝外洩所以他的銀行的錢就不見了就是少了6.7萬然後在今年的6月也有這樣子的一個新聞就是\n\n6\n00:01:52,925 --> 00:01:58,028\n此外,罪犯集團可能利用木馬城市讓民眾損失了7億多的金額,顯示出網絡上的風險存在。\n\n7\n00:02:10,435 --> 00:02:24,759\n本席在最近接到了兩個個案最近才發生的在上個禮拜跟昨天上個禮拜接到一個個案他的狀況就是陳情民眾他來陳情就是說他在17號禮拜天的時候他發現說他的LiPay少了一萬五千元然後他就在\n\n8\n00:02:33,562 --> 00:02:33,582\n委員會長\n\n9\n00:02:54,204 --> 00:02:54,344\n新聞新聞新聞新聞\n\n10\n00:03:24,204 --> 00:03:24,924\n新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞\n\n11\n00:03:41,949 --> 00:03:41,969\n﹚廣告\n\n12\n00:04:02,072 --> 00:04:17,003\n就是說然後他後來在21號的時候他去分局我們地方警察局分局做筆錄的時候做筆錄的當下他又接到新展銀行打電話去跟他確認說他是不是有在申請網路貸款\n\n13\n00:04:19,245 --> 00:04:37,184\n所以這個是這個個案的整個過程那昨天又有一個民眾陳秦他的合作金庫的帳戶也是短短的一天的時間就轉出了28筆然後每一筆就是7000多就是固定的金額就是7030就是28\n\n14\n00:04:39,946 --> 00:04:40,226\n陳素月委員\n\n15\n00:04:58,411 --> 00:04:58,431\n委員８\n\n16\n00:05:27,936 --> 00:05:55,077\n他這個個案有幾個問題一點就是說他只申請了LiPay跟接口支付可是歹徒竟然可以幫他申請了全支付全銀Pay支付寶還有這個台灣PayGooglePay等等所以在這個部分是不是我們在這個整個這個治安上我們要怎樣去防堵啊\n\n17\n00:05:56,944 --> 00:06:19,349\n報告委員這個通常的問題是帳號密碼被偷了是那帳號密碼被偷所以現在講就是說像我個人也是一樣現在一定要用多因子認證就是說我轉帳或是銀行的存一定要經過多因子就是說可能要送再確認不管是用生物辨識或者是用那個所謂的這個簡訊再確認你要輸進一個簡訊的密碼才能轉帳這個一定要捨不然的話現在帳號密碼它這個問題它這個過程還有一個問題就是說\n\n18\n00:06:26,370 --> 00:06:47,637\n可能歹徒在申請他的什麼就是電子支付的時候可能有驗證碼可是驗證碼也被歹徒攔截了所以驗證碼就是通常會收到你個人的手機對他就是收不到結果他發現他說他事後發現他的手機的許多功能都被設定成關閉所以這等於是歹徒可以隔空操作他的手機\n\n19\n00:06:48,637 --> 00:07:01,524\n對所以驗證嘛就說剛剛講就說這個可能最好還是用生物辨識啦就說你那個指紋跟臉部辨識是最理想說多因之症裡面生物特徵是最安全那再來才是簡訊不過\n\n20\n00:07:03,365 --> 00:07:28,600\n的確沒錯就是說現在載圖要偷這個帳號密碼的管道還蠻多的包括下載APP包括在有時候是這個網路這個比如說這個公司的這個被這個資安做得不好會被入侵這個都所以現在都不能相就是說還是要回復到自己就是說這個可能我們在很多方面可能要教育民眾就是在這個方面一定要用一些比較安全的方式來做多因子認證來讓自己的\n\n21\n00:08:10,865 --> 00:08:37,592\n所以在這種消費異常的狀況下我們是不是也有要設定一個攔阻的功能就是一個防火牆這樣子這一部分我們有跟金管會有一些討論就是為了打炸確實有些所謂的這個異常的這個行為那金管那邊現在有一些系統像鷹眼系統是我們數碼部補助發展的那個他就可以偵測這種異常然後就會就會進行一些攔阻這個這個有在有在合作中\n\n22\n00:08:38,092 --> 00:09:05,532\n所以從金管會那邊出來處理好那就是包括說這個民眾他反映說其實他很多銀行都都是約定就是不轉帳就是沒有轉帳功能的然後都被開通了所以我覺得這樣子的狀況真的是讓民眾覺得會非常的擔憂還有包括就是說冒名就是貸款因為他沒有辦貸款還好這個信財銀行有打去確認打電話給本人\n\n23\n00:09:07,593 --> 00:09:18,376\n委員會確認,不然的話他也可能會莫名其妙就背負了這個債務也都不知道了那接下來本期要關心的就是說因為這個就是涉及到這個治安的一個問題那我們看到明年114年度的預算裡面我們在預算科目民主網路之連結與創新\n\n24\n00:09:30,279 --> 00:09:53,714\n這個科目下的數位創新關鍵基礎建設計畫總經費是7.8億就是分4年執行那在今年度就是已經有編列了3億3年3億多然後明年度是1.9億這個部分主要就是要執行這個所謂的數位皮夾就是分散式數位身份證證與授權系統\n\n25\n00:09:56,155 --> 00:10:16,821\n那這個就是讓本席剛剛講的那個案子那兩個這個個案我就是聯想到這個我們要執行這樣的計畫未來就是說我們如果說來實施這個數位皮夾那我們把我們的資料就是說都放在這個數位皮夾裡面那萬一被害了那怎麼辦那不是非常的\n\n26\n00:10:17,861 --> 00:10:41,971\n就是剛剛有委員講說我們數位批價第一個機制就是看起來你可能要用生物辨識才能進入這個批價就是說這裡面的資料都是經過加密而且經過蠻完整的像PKI的加密但是你要拿到這個私鑰你一定要有這個要有個機制不是只有不是只有這個password不是只有那個ID跟password是應該會建議說你會有一些所謂的指紋或臉相辨識\n\n27\n00:10:43,191 --> 00:10:43,671\n此外,此外,此外。\n\n28\n00:10:58,423 --> 00:10:58,823\n數位皮夾與數位身分證有什麼區別?\n\n29\n00:11:14,514 --> 00:11:33,976\n素月生物證是一個卡片那個上面那個就是我剛講就是你要經過生物辨識那個卡片是沒辦法辨識的也就是你要拿去的話那個如果這種暴力破解或什麼是比較有機會被破解但是剛講這個素月皮夾因為它經過好幾層的加密然後再加上剛講生物辨識它的安全性會高很多\n\n30\n00:11:34,617 --> 00:12:00,458\n所以這個單這個技術面就是因為過去這幾年技術也在研發也在演進所以這時候因為很多國家已經在退數位皮夾所以我們也是參考國際的一些標準然後希望這個東西將來是變也就是希望將來身分證、健保卡等等卡片可以駕照都可以在你的手機裡面所以就不用帶那麼多證件去辦任何手續啊這個單是一個目標這個計畫的目的在這裡\n\n31\n00:12:01,186 --> 00:12:28,557\n好,我們知道科技在進步那歹徒作案的手法是真的是與時俱進所以我們也要非常慎重的去就是說包括這些計畫的執行或者是剛剛本席提的那兩個個案是不是也可以數位部這邊能夠進一步的瞭解然後發現哪些部分是漏洞然後我們要想辦法跟他防堵確保民眾的這個財產的一個安全這樣好謝謝委員今天謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5282\t31742\t委員長部長早安現在是一個科技的時代網路的時代所以我們也知道現在的消費習慣已經很習慣很多人尤其是年輕的族群都很習慣用這個電子支付了那我們看一下就是說這個根據統計目前就是說有幾個這個就是電子支付的包括接口支付還有一卡通全支付全音配\n32242\t32422\t委員會委員會委員會委員會\n52295\t52315\t﹚委員\n68579\t68599\t委員．\n94309\t112405\t最近幾年就有類似的個案就是在2022年的時候就有民眾因為他的個資不勝外洩所以他的銀行的錢就不見了就是少了6.7萬然後在今年的6月也有這樣子的一個新聞就是\n112925\t118028\t此外,罪犯集團可能利用木馬城市讓民眾損失了7億多的金額,顯示出網絡上的風險存在。\n130435\t144759\t本席在最近接到了兩個個案最近才發生的在上個禮拜跟昨天上個禮拜接到一個個案他的狀況就是陳情民眾他來陳情就是說他在17號禮拜天的時候他發現說他的LiPay少了一萬五千元然後他就在\n153562\t153582\t委員會長\n174204\t174344\t新聞新聞新聞新聞\n204204\t204924\t新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞\n221949\t221969\t﹚廣告\n242072\t257003\t就是說然後他後來在21號的時候他去分局我們地方警察局分局做筆錄的時候做筆錄的當下他又接到新展銀行打電話去跟他確認說他是不是有在申請網路貸款\n259245\t277184\t所以這個是這個個案的整個過程那昨天又有一個民眾陳秦他的合作金庫的帳戶也是短短的一天的時間就轉出了28筆然後每一筆就是7000多就是固定的金額就是7030就是28\n279946\t280226\t陳素月委員\n298411\t298431\t委員８\n327936\t355077\t他這個個案有幾個問題一點就是說他只申請了LiPay跟接口支付可是歹徒竟然可以幫他申請了全支付全銀Pay支付寶還有這個台灣Pay Google Pay等等所以在這個部分是不是我們在這個整個這個治安上我們要怎樣去防堵啊\n356944\t379349\t報告委員這個通常的問題是帳號密碼被偷了是那帳號密碼被偷所以現在講就是說像我個人也是一樣現在一定要用多因子認證就是說我轉帳或是銀行的存一定要經過多因子就是說可能要送再確認不管是用生物辨識或者是用那個所謂的這個簡訊再確認你要輸進一個簡訊的密碼才能轉帳這個一定要捨不然的話現在帳號密碼它這個問題它這個過程還有一個問題就是說\n386370\t407637\t可能歹徒在申請他的什麼就是電子支付的時候可能有驗證碼可是驗證碼也被歹徒攔截了所以驗證碼就是通常會收到你個人的手機對他就是收不到結果他發現他說他事後發現他的手機的許多功能都被設定成關閉所以這等於是歹徒可以隔空操作他的手機\n408637\t421524\t對所以驗證嘛就說剛剛講就說這個可能最好還是用生物辨識啦就說你那個指紋跟臉部辨識是最理想說多因之症裡面生物特徵是最安全那再來才是簡訊不過\n423365\t448600\t的確沒錯就是說現在載圖要偷這個帳號密碼的管道還蠻多的包括下載APP包括在有時候是這個網路這個比如說這個公司的這個被這個資安做得不好會被入侵這個都所以現在都不能相就是說還是要回復到自己就是說這個可能我們在很多方面可能要教育民眾就是在這個方面一定要用一些比較安全的方式來做多因子認證來讓自己的\n449360\t466101\t﹗\n466101\t490725\t⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯\n490865\t517592\t所以在這種消費異常的狀況下我們是不是也有要設定一個攔阻的功能就是一個防火牆這樣子這一部分我們有跟金管會有一些討論就是為了打炸確實有些所謂的這個異常的這個行為那金管那邊現在有一些系統像鷹眼系統是我們數碼部補助發展的那個他就可以偵測這種異常然後就會就會進行一些攔阻這個這個有在有在合作中\n518092\t545532\t所以從金管會那邊出來處理好那就是包括說這個民眾他反映說其實他很多銀行都都是約定就是不轉帳就是沒有轉帳功能的然後都被開通了所以我覺得這樣子的狀況真的是讓民眾覺得會非常的擔憂還有包括就是說冒名就是貸款因為他沒有辦貸款還好這個信財銀行有打去確認打電話給本人\n547593\t558376\t委員會確認,不然的話他也可能會莫名其妙就背負了這個債務也都不知道了那接下來本期要關心的就是說因為這個就是涉及到這個治安的一個問題那我們看到明年114年度的預算裡面我們在預算科目民主網路之連結與創新\n570279\t593714\t這個科目下的數位創新關鍵基礎建設計畫總經費是7.8億就是分4年執行那在今年度就是已經有編列了3億3年3億多然後明年度是1.9億這個部分主要就是要執行這個所謂的數位皮夾就是分散式數位身份證證與授權系統\n596155\t616821\t那這個就是讓本席剛剛講的那個案子那兩個這個個案我就是聯想到這個我們要執行這樣的計畫未來就是說我們如果說來實施這個數位皮夾那我們把我們的資料就是說都放在這個數位皮夾裡面那萬一被害了那怎麼辦那不是非常的\n617861\t641971\t就是剛剛有委員講說我們數位批價第一個機制就是看起來你可能要用生物辨識才能進入這個批價就是說這裡面的資料都是經過加密而且經過蠻完整的像PKI的加密但是你要拿到這個私鑰你一定要有這個要有個機制不是只有不是只有這個password不是只有那個ID跟password是應該會建議說你會有一些所謂的指紋或臉相辨識\n643191\t643671\t此外,此外,此外。\n658423\t658823\t數位皮夾與數位身分證有什麼區別?\n674514\t693976\t素月生物證是一個卡片那個上面那個就是我剛講就是你要經過生物辨識那個卡片是沒辦法辨識的也就是你要拿去的話那個如果這種暴力破解或什麼是比較有機會被破解但是剛講這個素月皮夾因為它經過好幾層的加密然後再加上剛講生物辨識它的安全性會高很多\n694617\t720458\t所以這個單這個技術面就是因為過去這幾年技術也在研發也在演進所以這時候因為很多國家已經在退數位皮夾所以我們也是參考國際的一些標準然後希望這個東西將來是變也就是希望將來身分證、健保卡等等卡片可以駕照都可以在你的手機裡面所以就不用帶那麼多證件去辦任何手續啊這個單是一個目標這個計畫的目的在這裡\n721186\t748557\t好,我們知道科技在進步那歹徒作案的手法是真的是與時俱進所以我們也要非常慎重的去就是說包括這些計畫的執行或者是剛剛本席提的那兩個個案是不是也可以數位部這邊能夠進一步的瞭解然後發現哪些部分是漏洞然後我們要想辦法跟他防堵確保民眾的這個財產的一個安全這樣好謝謝委員今天謝謝\n","txt":"委員長部長早安現在是一個科技的時代網路的時代所以我們也知道現在的消費習慣已經很習慣很多人尤其是年輕的族群都很習慣用這個電子支付了那我們看一下就是說這個根據統計目前就是說有幾個這個就是電子支付的包括接口支付還有一卡通全支付全音配\n委員會委員會委員會委員會\n﹚委員\n委員．\n最近幾年就有類似的個案就是在2022年的時候就有民眾因為他的個資不勝外洩所以他的銀行的錢就不見了就是少了6.7萬然後在今年的6月也有這樣子的一個新聞就是\n此外,罪犯集團可能利用木馬城市讓民眾損失了7億多的金額,顯示出網絡上的風險存在。\n本席在最近接到了兩個個案最近才發生的在上個禮拜跟昨天上個禮拜接到一個個案他的狀況就是陳情民眾他來陳情就是說他在17號禮拜天的時候他發現說他的LiPay少了一萬五千元然後他就在\n委員會長\n新聞新聞新聞新聞\n新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞\n﹚廣告\n就是說然後他後來在21號的時候他去分局我們地方警察局分局做筆錄的時候做筆錄的當下他又接到新展銀行打電話去跟他確認說他是不是有在申請網路貸款\n所以這個是這個個案的整個過程那昨天又有一個民眾陳秦他的合作金庫的帳戶也是短短的一天的時間就轉出了28筆然後每一筆就是7000多就是固定的金額就是7030就是28\n陳素月委員\n委員８\n他這個個案有幾個問題一點就是說他只申請了LiPay跟接口支付可是歹徒竟然可以幫他申請了全支付全銀Pay支付寶還有這個台灣Pay Google Pay等等所以在這個部分是不是我們在這個整個這個治安上我們要怎樣去防堵啊\n報告委員這個通常的問題是帳號密碼被偷了是那帳號密碼被偷所以現在講就是說像我個人也是一樣現在一定要用多因子認證就是說我轉帳或是銀行的存一定要經過多因子就是說可能要送再確認不管是用生物辨識或者是用那個所謂的這個簡訊再確認你要輸進一個簡訊的密碼才能轉帳這個一定要捨不然的話現在帳號密碼它這個問題它這個過程還有一個問題就是說\n可能歹徒在申請他的什麼就是電子支付的時候可能有驗證碼可是驗證碼也被歹徒攔截了所以驗證碼就是通常會收到你個人的手機對他就是收不到結果他發現他說他事後發現他的手機的許多功能都被設定成關閉所以這等於是歹徒可以隔空操作他的手機\n對所以驗證嘛就說剛剛講就說這個可能最好還是用生物辨識啦就說你那個指紋跟臉部辨識是最理想說多因之症裡面生物特徵是最安全那再來才是簡訊不過\n的確沒錯就是說現在載圖要偷這個帳號密碼的管道還蠻多的包括下載APP包括在有時候是這個網路這個比如說這個公司的這個被這個資安做得不好會被入侵這個都所以現在都不能相就是說還是要回復到自己就是說這個可能我們在很多方面可能要教育民眾就是在這個方面一定要用一些比較安全的方式來做多因子認證來讓自己的\n﹗\n⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯\n所以在這種消費異常的狀況下我們是不是也有要設定一個攔阻的功能就是一個防火牆這樣子這一部分我們有跟金管會有一些討論就是為了打炸確實有些所謂的這個異常的這個行為那金管那邊現在有一些系統像鷹眼系統是我們數碼部補助發展的那個他就可以偵測這種異常然後就會就會進行一些攔阻這個這個有在有在合作中\n所以從金管會那邊出來處理好那就是包括說這個民眾他反映說其實他很多銀行都都是約定就是不轉帳就是沒有轉帳功能的然後都被開通了所以我覺得這樣子的狀況真的是讓民眾覺得會非常的擔憂還有包括就是說冒名就是貸款因為他沒有辦貸款還好這個信財銀行有打去確認打電話給本人\n委員會確認,不然的話他也可能會莫名其妙就背負了這個債務也都不知道了那接下來本期要關心的就是說因為這個就是涉及到這個治安的一個問題那我們看到明年114年度的預算裡面我們在預算科目民主網路之連結與創新\n這個科目下的數位創新關鍵基礎建設計畫總經費是7.8億就是分4年執行那在今年度就是已經有編列了3億3年3億多然後明年度是1.9億這個部分主要就是要執行這個所謂的數位皮夾就是分散式數位身份證證與授權系統\n那這個就是讓本席剛剛講的那個案子那兩個這個個案我就是聯想到這個我們要執行這樣的計畫未來就是說我們如果說來實施這個數位皮夾那我們把我們的資料就是說都放在這個數位皮夾裡面那萬一被害了那怎麼辦那不是非常的\n就是剛剛有委員講說我們數位批價第一個機制就是看起來你可能要用生物辨識才能進入這個批價就是說這裡面的資料都是經過加密而且經過蠻完整的像PKI的加密但是你要拿到這個私鑰你一定要有這個要有個機制不是只有不是只有這個password不是只有那個ID跟password是應該會建議說你會有一些所謂的指紋或臉相辨識\n此外,此外,此外。\n數位皮夾與數位身分證有什麼區別?\n素月生物證是一個卡片那個上面那個就是我剛講就是你要經過生物辨識那個卡片是沒辦法辨識的也就是你要拿去的話那個如果這種暴力破解或什麼是比較有機會被破解但是剛講這個素月皮夾因為它經過好幾層的加密然後再加上剛講生物辨識它的安全性會高很多\n所以這個單這個技術面就是因為過去這幾年技術也在研發也在演進所以這時候因為很多國家已經在退數位皮夾所以我們也是參考國際的一些標準然後希望這個東西將來是變也就是希望將來身分證、健保卡等等卡片可以駕照都可以在你的手機裡面所以就不用帶那麼多證件去辦任何手續啊這個單是一個目標這個計畫的目的在這裡\n好,我們知道科技在進步那歹徒作案的手法是真的是與時俱進所以我們也要非常慎重的去就是說包括這些計畫的執行或者是剛剛本席提的那兩個個案是不是也可以數位部這邊能夠進一步的瞭解然後發現哪些部分是漏洞然後我們要想辦法跟他防堵確保民眾的這個財產的一個安全這樣好謝謝委員今天謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.282 --> 00:31.742\n委員長部長早安現在是一個科技的時代網路的時代所以我們也知道現在的消費習慣已經很習慣很多人尤其是年輕的族群都很習慣用這個電子支付了那我們看一下就是說這個根據統計目前就是說有幾個這個就是電子支付的包括接口支付還有一卡通全支付全音配\n\n00:32.242 --> 00:32.422\n委員會委員會委員會委員會\n\n00:52.295 --> 00:52.315\n﹚委員\n\n01:08.579 --> 01:08.599\n委員．\n\n01:34.309 --> 01:52.405\n最近幾年就有類似的個案就是在2022年的時候就有民眾因為他的個資不勝外洩所以他的銀行的錢就不見了就是少了6.7萬然後在今年的6月也有這樣子的一個新聞就是\n\n01:52.925 --> 01:58.028\n此外,罪犯集團可能利用木馬城市讓民眾損失了7億多的金額,顯示出網絡上的風險存在。\n\n02:10.435 --> 02:24.759\n本席在最近接到了兩個個案最近才發生的在上個禮拜跟昨天上個禮拜接到一個個案他的狀況就是陳情民眾他來陳情就是說他在17號禮拜天的時候他發現說他的LiPay少了一萬五千元然後他就在\n\n02:33.562 --> 02:33.582\n委員會長\n\n02:54.204 --> 02:54.344\n新聞新聞新聞新聞\n\n03:24.204 --> 03:24.924\n新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞\n\n03:41.949 --> 03:41.969\n﹚廣告\n\n04:02.072 --> 04:17.003\n就是說然後他後來在21號的時候他去分局我們地方警察局分局做筆錄的時候做筆錄的當下他又接到新展銀行打電話去跟他確認說他是不是有在申請網路貸款\n\n04:19.245 --> 04:37.184\n所以這個是這個個案的整個過程那昨天又有一個民眾陳秦他的合作金庫的帳戶也是短短的一天的時間就轉出了28筆然後每一筆就是7000多就是固定的金額就是7030就是28\n\n04:39.946 --> 04:40.226\n陳素月委員\n\n04:58.411 --> 04:58.431\n委員８\n\n05:27.936 --> 05:55.077\n他這個個案有幾個問題一點就是說他只申請了LiPay跟接口支付可是歹徒竟然可以幫他申請了全支付全銀Pay支付寶還有這個台灣PayGooglePay等等所以在這個部分是不是我們在這個整個這個治安上我們要怎樣去防堵啊\n\n05:56.944 --> 06:19.349\n報告委員這個通常的問題是帳號密碼被偷了是那帳號密碼被偷所以現在講就是說像我個人也是一樣現在一定要用多因子認證就是說我轉帳或是銀行的存一定要經過多因子就是說可能要送再確認不管是用生物辨識或者是用那個所謂的這個簡訊再確認你要輸進一個簡訊的密碼才能轉帳這個一定要捨不然的話現在帳號密碼它這個問題它這個過程還有一個問題就是說\n\n06:26.370 --> 06:47.637\n可能歹徒在申請他的什麼就是電子支付的時候可能有驗證碼可是驗證碼也被歹徒攔截了所以驗證碼就是通常會收到你個人的手機對他就是收不到結果他發現他說他事後發現他的手機的許多功能都被設定成關閉所以這等於是歹徒可以隔空操作他的手機\n\n06:48.637 --> 07:01.524\n對所以驗證嘛就說剛剛講就說這個可能最好還是用生物辨識啦就說你那個指紋跟臉部辨識是最理想說多因之症裡面生物特徵是最安全那再來才是簡訊不過\n\n07:03.365 --> 07:28.600\n的確沒錯就是說現在載圖要偷這個帳號密碼的管道還蠻多的包括下載APP包括在有時候是這個網路這個比如說這個公司的這個被這個資安做得不好會被入侵這個都所以現在都不能相就是說還是要回復到自己就是說這個可能我們在很多方面可能要教育民眾就是在這個方面一定要用一些比較安全的方式來做多因子認證來讓自己的\n\n08:10.865 --> 08:37.592\n所以在這種消費異常的狀況下我們是不是也有要設定一個攔阻的功能就是一個防火牆這樣子這一部分我們有跟金管會有一些討論就是為了打炸確實有些所謂的這個異常的這個行為那金管那邊現在有一些系統像鷹眼系統是我們數碼部補助發展的那個他就可以偵測這種異常然後就會就會進行一些攔阻這個這個有在有在合作中\n\n08:38.092 --> 09:05.532\n所以從金管會那邊出來處理好那就是包括說這個民眾他反映說其實他很多銀行都都是約定就是不轉帳就是沒有轉帳功能的然後都被開通了所以我覺得這樣子的狀況真的是讓民眾覺得會非常的擔憂還有包括就是說冒名就是貸款因為他沒有辦貸款還好這個信財銀行有打去確認打電話給本人\n\n09:07.593 --> 09:18.376\n委員會確認,不然的話他也可能會莫名其妙就背負了這個債務也都不知道了那接下來本期要關心的就是說因為這個就是涉及到這個治安的一個問題那我們看到明年114年度的預算裡面我們在預算科目民主網路之連結與創新\n\n09:30.279 --> 09:53.714\n這個科目下的數位創新關鍵基礎建設計畫總經費是7.8億就是分4年執行那在今年度就是已經有編列了3億3年3億多然後明年度是1.9億這個部分主要就是要執行這個所謂的數位皮夾就是分散式數位身份證證與授權系統\n\n09:56.155 --> 10:16.821\n那這個就是讓本席剛剛講的那個案子那兩個這個個案我就是聯想到這個我們要執行這樣的計畫未來就是說我們如果說來實施這個數位皮夾那我們把我們的資料就是說都放在這個數位皮夾裡面那萬一被害了那怎麼辦那不是非常的\n\n10:17.861 --> 10:41.971\n就是剛剛有委員講說我們數位批價第一個機制就是看起來你可能要用生物辨識才能進入這個批價就是說這裡面的資料都是經過加密而且經過蠻完整的像PKI的加密但是你要拿到這個私鑰你一定要有這個要有個機制不是只有不是只有這個password不是只有那個ID跟password是應該會建議說你會有一些所謂的指紋或臉相辨識\n\n10:43.191 --> 10:43.671\n此外,此外,此外。\n\n10:58.423 --> 10:58.823\n數位皮夾與數位身分證有什麼區別?\n\n11:14.514 --> 11:33.976\n素月生物證是一個卡片那個上面那個就是我剛講就是你要經過生物辨識那個卡片是沒辦法辨識的也就是你要拿去的話那個如果這種暴力破解或什麼是比較有機會被破解但是剛講這個素月皮夾因為它經過好幾層的加密然後再加上剛講生物辨識它的安全性會高很多\n\n11:34.617 --> 12:00.458\n所以這個單這個技術面就是因為過去這幾年技術也在研發也在演進所以這時候因為很多國家已經在退數位皮夾所以我們也是參考國際的一些標準然後希望這個東西將來是變也就是希望將來身分證、健保卡等等卡片可以駕照都可以在你的手機裡面所以就不用帶那麼多證件去辦任何手續啊這個單是一個目標這個計畫的目的在這裡\n\n12:01.186 --> 12:28.557\n好,我們知道科技在進步那歹徒作案的手法是真的是與時俱進所以我們也要非常慎重的去就是說包括這些計畫的執行或者是剛剛本席提的那兩個個案是不是也可以數位部這邊能夠進一步的瞭解然後發現哪些部分是漏洞然後我們要想辦法跟他防堵確保民眾的這個財產的一個安全這樣好謝謝委員今天謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.282,"end":31.742,"text":"委員長部長早安現在是一個科技的時代網路的時代所以我們也知道現在的消費習慣已經很習慣很多人尤其是年輕的族群都很習慣用這個電子支付了那我們看一下就是說這個根據統計目前就是說有幾個這個就是電子支付的包括接口支付還有一卡通全支付全音配"},{"start":32.242,"end":32.422,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":52.295,"end":52.315,"text":"﹚委員"},{"start":68.579,"end":68.599,"text":"委員．"},{"start":94.309,"end":112.405,"text":"最近幾年就有類似的個案就是在2022年的時候就有民眾因為他的個資不勝外洩所以他的銀行的錢就不見了就是少了6.7萬然後在今年的6月也有這樣子的一個新聞就是"},{"start":112.925,"end":118.028,"text":"此外,罪犯集團可能利用木馬城市讓民眾損失了7億多的金額,顯示出網絡上的風險存在。"},{"start":130.435,"end":144.759,"text":"本席在最近接到了兩個個案最近才發生的在上個禮拜跟昨天上個禮拜接到一個個案他的狀況就是陳情民眾他來陳情就是說他在17號禮拜天的時候他發現說他的LiPay少了一萬五千元然後他就在"},{"start":153.562,"end":153.582,"text":"委員會長"},{"start":174.204,"end":174.344,"text":"新聞新聞新聞新聞"},{"start":204.204,"end":204.924,"text":"新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞"},{"start":221.949,"end":221.969,"text":"﹚廣告"},{"start":242.072,"end":257.003,"text":"就是說然後他後來在21號的時候他去分局我們地方警察局分局做筆錄的時候做筆錄的當下他又接到新展銀行打電話去跟他確認說他是不是有在申請網路貸款"},{"start":259.245,"end":277.184,"text":"所以這個是這個個案的整個過程那昨天又有一個民眾陳秦他的合作金庫的帳戶也是短短的一天的時間就轉出了28筆然後每一筆就是7000多就是固定的金額就是7030就是28"},{"start":279.946,"end":280.226,"text":"陳素月委員"},{"start":298.411,"end":298.431,"text":"委員８"},{"start":327.936,"end":355.077,"text":"他這個個案有幾個問題一點就是說他只申請了LiPay跟接口支付可是歹徒竟然可以幫他申請了全支付全銀Pay支付寶還有這個台灣Pay Google Pay等等所以在這個部分是不是我們在這個整個這個治安上我們要怎樣去防堵啊"},{"start":356.944,"end":379.349,"text":"報告委員這個通常的問題是帳號密碼被偷了是那帳號密碼被偷所以現在講就是說像我個人也是一樣現在一定要用多因子認證就是說我轉帳或是銀行的存一定要經過多因子就是說可能要送再確認不管是用生物辨識或者是用那個所謂的這個簡訊再確認你要輸進一個簡訊的密碼才能轉帳這個一定要捨不然的話現在帳號密碼它這個問題它這個過程還有一個問題就是說"},{"start":386.37,"end":407.637,"text":"可能歹徒在申請他的什麼就是電子支付的時候可能有驗證碼可是驗證碼也被歹徒攔截了所以驗證碼就是通常會收到你個人的手機對他就是收不到結果他發現他說他事後發現他的手機的許多功能都被設定成關閉所以這等於是歹徒可以隔空操作他的手機"},{"start":408.637,"end":421.524,"text":"對所以驗證嘛就說剛剛講就說這個可能最好還是用生物辨識啦就說你那個指紋跟臉部辨識是最理想說多因之症裡面生物特徵是最安全那再來才是簡訊不過"},{"start":423.365,"end":448.6,"text":"的確沒錯就是說現在載圖要偷這個帳號密碼的管道還蠻多的包括下載APP包括在有時候是這個網路這個比如說這個公司的這個被這個資安做得不好會被入侵這個都所以現在都不能相就是說還是要回復到自己就是說這個可能我們在很多方面可能要教育民眾就是在這個方面一定要用一些比較安全的方式來做多因子認證來讓自己的"},{"start":449.36,"end":466.101,"text":"﹗"},{"start":466.101,"end":490.725,"text":"⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":490.865,"end":517.592,"text":"所以在這種消費異常的狀況下我們是不是也有要設定一個攔阻的功能就是一個防火牆這樣子這一部分我們有跟金管會有一些討論就是為了打炸確實有些所謂的這個異常的這個行為那金管那邊現在有一些系統像鷹眼系統是我們數碼部補助發展的那個他就可以偵測這種異常然後就會就會進行一些攔阻這個這個有在有在合作中"},{"start":518.092,"end":545.532,"text":"所以從金管會那邊出來處理好那就是包括說這個民眾他反映說其實他很多銀行都都是約定就是不轉帳就是沒有轉帳功能的然後都被開通了所以我覺得這樣子的狀況真的是讓民眾覺得會非常的擔憂還有包括就是說冒名就是貸款因為他沒有辦貸款還好這個信財銀行有打去確認打電話給本人"},{"start":547.593,"end":558.376,"text":"委員會確認,不然的話他也可能會莫名其妙就背負了這個債務也都不知道了那接下來本期要關心的就是說因為這個就是涉及到這個治安的一個問題那我們看到明年114年度的預算裡面我們在預算科目民主網路之連結與創新"},{"start":570.279,"end":593.714,"text":"這個科目下的數位創新關鍵基礎建設計畫總經費是7.8億就是分4年執行那在今年度就是已經有編列了3億3年3億多然後明年度是1.9億這個部分主要就是要執行這個所謂的數位皮夾就是分散式數位身份證證與授權系統"},{"start":596.155,"end":616.821,"text":"那這個就是讓本席剛剛講的那個案子那兩個這個個案我就是聯想到這個我們要執行這樣的計畫未來就是說我們如果說來實施這個數位皮夾那我們把我們的資料就是說都放在這個數位皮夾裡面那萬一被害了那怎麼辦那不是非常的"},{"start":617.861,"end":641.971,"text":"就是剛剛有委員講說我們數位批價第一個機制就是看起來你可能要用生物辨識才能進入這個批價就是說這裡面的資料都是經過加密而且經過蠻完整的像PKI的加密但是你要拿到這個私鑰你一定要有這個要有個機制不是只有不是只有這個password不是只有那個ID跟password是應該會建議說你會有一些所謂的指紋或臉相辨識"},{"start":643.191,"end":643.671,"text":"此外,此外,此外。"},{"start":658.423,"end":658.823,"text":"數位皮夾與數位身分證有什麼區別?"},{"start":674.514,"end":693.976,"text":"素月生物證是一個卡片那個上面那個就是我剛講就是你要經過生物辨識那個卡片是沒辦法辨識的也就是你要拿去的話那個如果這種暴力破解或什麼是比較有機會被破解但是剛講這個素月皮夾因為它經過好幾層的加密然後再加上剛講生物辨識它的安全性會高很多"},{"start":694.617,"end":720.458,"text":"所以這個單這個技術面就是因為過去這幾年技術也在研發也在演進所以這時候因為很多國家已經在退數位皮夾所以我們也是參考國際的一些標準然後希望這個東西將來是變也就是希望將來身分證、健保卡等等卡片可以駕照都可以在你的手機裡面所以就不用帶那麼多證件去辦任何手續啊這個單是一個目標這個計畫的目的在這裡"},{"start":721.186,"end":748.557,"text":"好,我們知道科技在進步那歹徒作案的手法是真的是與時俱進所以我們也要非常慎重的去就是說包括這些計畫的執行或者是剛剛本席提的那兩個個案是不是也可以數位部這邊能夠進一步的瞭解然後發現哪些部分是漏洞然後我們要想辦法跟他防堵確保民眾的這個財產的一個安全這樣好謝謝委員今天謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":268,"blocks":[["陳委員素月：（10時1分）謝謝主席，請主席邀請黃部長，還有資安署署長。"],["主席：黃部長、謝署長。"],["黃部長彥男：委員早。"],["陳委員素月：部長早安。現在是一個科技的時代、網路的時代，所以我們也知道現在的消費習慣，很多人，尤其是年輕的族群，都已經很習慣用電子支付了。我們看一下，根據統計，目前有幾個電子支付，包括街口支付，還有一卡通、全支付、全盈+PAY等等，所有用戶數的排名，其中使用數最高的是街口支付，已經高達657.1萬人；然後第二多的一卡通，有655.2萬人；然後全支付也有508萬，用戶數都蠻高的。交易的金額也都很高，街口支付有高達46.2億；全支付有43.9億；然後一卡通有34.1億元，這也顯示出我們現在的消費習慣，可能未來使用的人應該也會越來越多啦，照這個趨勢來說是很多。可是我們現在也發現，這樣子網路電子支付的使用習慣，如果在被駭客入侵或者是個資外洩的時候，可能也會面臨很大的一個危險啦！我們看到，其實最近幾年就有類似的個案，在2022年的時候，就有民眾因為他的個資不慎外洩，所以他銀行的錢就不見了，少了6.7萬；在今年的6月也有這樣子的一個新聞，有詐騙集團可能是利用木馬程式，也讓民眾損失了七億多這樣子的金額，所以也顯示出在網路上有這樣子的一個風險存在。","本席在最近就接到了兩個個案，最近才發生的，在上個禮拜跟昨天，上個禮拜接到一個個案的狀況，民眾陳情他在17號禮拜天的時候，他發現他的LINE Pay少了1萬5,000元，趕快用他的手機去查，因為他銀行帳戶是蠻多的啦，有行動銀行的其實只有兩家，就是新光銀行跟星展銀行，其中新光銀行有綁LINE Pay跟街口支付。他透過165客服要去查詢的時候，他打給165，然後要登入星展跟新光銀行的app，結果發現他的帳號密碼已經被更改了，所以他就趕快用電話去聯絡要凍結他的帳戶。結果他去查詢的時候，發現他新光的帳戶已經被轉走81萬了，然後星展也已經被轉了17萬出去，然後新光的帳戶其實在很短的時間，大概就一個晚上的時間，我看他清冊的時間，1分鐘可能就被轉3筆了，一筆不到二十幾秒的時間，就一筆一筆這樣子一直轉出去，被轉了81萬。後來禮拜一他又趕快臨櫃去查詢相關的一些銀行，他發現他的合作金庫也被轉出了20萬，聯邦銀行也被轉出20萬，富邦銀行也被轉了20萬，中國的銀行也被轉出十八萬多。他後來在21號去地方警察分局做筆錄的當下，他又接到星展銀行打電話去跟他確認，他是不是有在申請網路貸款，所以這是個案整個的過程啦！","昨天又有一個民眾陳情，他合作金庫的帳戶也是短短的一天的時間就轉出了28筆，然後每一筆就是7,030固定的金額，28筆這樣一直連續轉出去，這是昨天接到的啦！從這兩件個案來說，陳情人就很懷疑，因為網路銀行他只有兩家，然後其中他被轉出去的帳戶，是轉到他自己已經很久沒有用的其中一個銀行，就是台新銀行，他說從104年那時候餘額已經只剩一百多塊，所以他也沒結清就放著放到現在。結果他新光銀行的錢是被轉到台新銀行去，然後再從台新銀行轉到街口支付、全盈+PAY、台新Pay，就這樣轉出去，然後錢就不見了。這個個案有幾個問題點，就是他只申請了LINE Pay跟街口支付，可是歹徒竟然可以幫他申請全支付、全盈+PAY、支付寶，還有臺灣Pay、Google Pay等等，所以這部分在整個資安上，我們要怎樣去防堵啊？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，通常的問題是帳號密碼被偷啦！"],["陳委員素月：是。"],["黃部長彥男：所以現在像我個人也是一樣，現在一定要用多因子認證，就是轉帳或是銀行交易一定要經過多因子再確認，不管是用生物辨識或者是用所謂的簡訊再確認，你要輸進一個簡訊的密碼才能轉帳。這個一定要設，不然的話，現在帳號密碼被偷……"],["陳委員素月：他這個過程還有一個問題，就是歹徒在申請他的電子支付的時候，可能有驗證碼，可是驗證碼也被歹徒攔截了。"],["黃部長彥男：對，驗證碼通常會送到你個人的手機號碼。"],["陳委員素月：對啊，他就是收不到，結果他事後發現他手機的許多功能都被設定成關閉，所以這等於是歹徒可以隔空操作他的手機。"],["黃部長彥男：對，所以驗證碼被……剛剛講，可能最好還是用生物辨識啦！就是指紋跟臉部辨識是最理想，多因子認證裡面生物特徵是最安全，再來才是簡訊。不過的確沒錯，現在歹徒要偷帳號密碼的管道還滿多，包括下載app，包括有時候是網路，比如說公司資安做得不好會被入侵，所以現在都不能相信，還是要回復到自己。我們在很多方面可能要教育民眾，在這個方面，一定要用一些比較安全的方式來做多因子認證，就是剛剛講的，牽涉到銀行轉帳或是牽涉到金融，一定要用比較安全的方法，像生物辨識這種。現在生物辨識是慢慢的在普遍，每個銀行都在推，所以這個應該是我們未來希望能夠達到的一個安全防護。"],["陳委員素月：對，所以歹徒可能已經竊取他的個資了，在申請電子支付的時候，這個部分未來在資安方面，我們要怎樣去防堵，這個可能要去思考啦！另外，電子支付或第三方支付在消費異常的時候，因為像這兩個個案都是短短的時間，一筆一筆就一直轉出去了，而且甚至是1分鐘裡面就轉三筆了，不到20秒就一筆，所以在這種消費異常的狀況下，我們是不是也要設定一個攔阻的功能，就是一個防火牆這樣子？"],["黃部長彥男：這部分我們跟金管會有一些討論，就是為了打詐，確實有些所謂異常的行為，而金管會那邊現在有一些系統，像鷹眼系統是我們數發部補助發展的，那個就可以偵測這種異常，就會進行一些攔阻，這個有在合作中，透過金管會那邊來處理。"],["陳委員素月：包括民眾有反映，其實他很多銀行都是約定不轉帳，也就是沒有轉帳功能的，然後都被開通了，所以我覺得這樣子的狀況真的讓民眾覺得非常的擔憂。還有冒名貸款，因為他沒有辦貸款，還好星展銀行有打去確認，打電話給本人確認，不然的話，他也可能會莫名其妙就背負了債務都不知道。","接下來本席要關心的是，因為這個涉及資安的問題，我們看到明（114）年度的預算裡面，在預算科目民主網路之連結與創新下的數位創新關鍵基礎建設計畫總經費是7.8億，分4年執行，在今年度已經有編列三億多，明年度是1.9億，這個部分主要就是要執行所謂的數位皮夾，就是分散式數位身分認證與授權系統，這就是本席剛剛講的那兩個個案，我就是聯想到這個，我們要執行這樣的計畫，未來如果實施數位皮夾，我們把資料都放在這個數位皮夾裡面，萬一被駭了怎麼辦？那不是非常的危險嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：剛剛有委員講，我們數位皮夾的第一個機制就是剛才講的，你可能要用生物辨識才能進入這個皮夾，這裡面的資料都是經過加密，而且經過滿完整的像PKI的加密，但是你要拿到這個私鑰，一定要有一個機制，不是只有ID跟password，應該會建議有一些指紋或臉相辨識，這樣的話就可以保護，就算你的資料被拿走，因為他沒辦法破密，所以他也沒辦法拿到裡面的一些認證，這個我們在推的時候會特別注意，怎麼去保護在數位皮夾裡面的資料安全，這是一個很重要的議題。"],["陳委員素月：是，我們回想之前內政部推數位身分證的時候，就是因為這個資料的安全讓大家產生非常大的疑慮，所以後來就喊停了。所謂的數位皮夾跟數位身分證有什麼區別？"],["黃部長彥男：數位身分證是一個卡片，我剛才講的，要經過生物辨識，但那個卡片是沒辦法辨識的，如果被別人拿去的話，用暴力破解或怎麼樣，它是比較有機會被破解；但是剛剛講的這個數位皮夾，因為它經過好幾層的加密，再加上剛剛講的生物辨識，它的安全性會高很多。關於這個技術面，因為過去這幾年的技術也在研發、演進，很多國家已經在推數位皮夾，所以我們也參考國際的一些標準，希望這個東西將來是便民的，也就是希望將來身分證、健保卡、駕照等等卡片都可以在你的手機裡面，以後就不用帶那麼多證件去辦任何手續，這當然是一個目標，這個計畫的目的是在這裡。"],["陳委員素月：好，我們知道科技一直在進步，歹徒作案的手法真的也是與時俱進，所以我們也要非常慎重的去防範，包括一些計畫的執行，或者是剛剛本席提的那兩個個案，是不是數位部這邊也能夠進一步的了解，發現哪些部分是漏洞，然後要想辦法防堵，確保民眾的財產安全。"],["黃部長彥男：是，謝謝委員建議。"],["主席：謝謝陳素月召委。那個手機是哪個品牌的？iPhone，好。","接下來有請林俊憲委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":286,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-13","speakers":["魯明哲","林沛祥","林國成","李昆澤","陳素月","林俊憲","何欣純","黃健豪","廖先翔","陳雪生","邱若華","徐富癸","蔡其昌","許智傑","游顥","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","葛如鈞","洪孟楷","吳春城","葉元之","黃國昌","林楚茵","劉建國","羅美玲"],"page_start":211,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311001_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢；二、審查114年度中\n央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算（僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11311001_00005"}}}