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\"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,089 --> 00:00:01,813\n我們請我們請黃部長委員好\n\n2\n00:00:08,615 --> 00:00:33,013\n部長剛剛很多委員在擔心數位皮夾之前我是反對數位身份證的數位身份證為什麼因為我們大家都知道治安的問題所以數位皮夾你現在要推動最重要的是要取得人民的信任要取得人民的信任就是要治安能夠讓人家信任所以我今天就要來討論這個治安的問題\n\n3\n00:00:36,215 --> 00:00:37,416\n數位皮夾有經過很多項的認證現在的技術還有應該都沒問題可是我給你看一個數據我們公部門的資安通報這個\n\n4\n00:00:51,485 --> 00:01:06,875\n三層的原因未知：那各自沒有保障的情況之下民眾如何安心：這個我想這個數據是從你們這個數位發展部來的那如果說以2023年公部門的資安通報697件那你們要當了有市警那你們市警只是市警告訴各個部門說怎樣才有這個風險\n\n5\n00:01:16,661 --> 00:01:37,132\n可是問題是要真正的維護各個公部門的資安通報後的一個個資的一個安全跟所謂的這個處理因應的話還是要來自於各部門的資訊人員、資安人員對不對通報之後各部門對就是是不是也要來自於各部門的這個資安人員\n\n6\n00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:59,348\n是沒錯是沒錯嘛對不對好來問題是在於我們如何能夠信任政府的資安人員第一個人力夠不夠來你自己來看現在呢112年中央及地方政府的資安專職人員配置情形表\n\n7\n00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:27,655\n這是你們給我的數字那我們統計了一下真正的資安的專職正式人員僅佔各個政府機關通報出來的人員的六成專職正式人員只有佔六成而且我必須要跟部長提醒一下這個表格裡面所提報的人數\n\n8\n00:02:29,622 --> 00:02:39,472\n我跟你講是由各機關提報至於各機關提報的他認定的資安專職人員到底是不是真的資安專責人員\n\n9\n00:02:41,601 --> 00:03:02,746\n我不知道你們有查核嗎我不知道那他的認定標準又是如何他是依據什麼來填報那我們呢速發布又是如何要來盤點檢討在整個提報裡面的資安專職的正式人員僅佔6成那其他4成都不是正式人員喔\n\n10\n00:03:04,351 --> 00:03:30,467\n這是以數字來講第二個是以這麼多的機關裡面包括ABC因為你們治安的層級有分ABC級那以ABC級呢你看喔中央地方你就有這樣子的一個人數上人力上還有專業上大家沒辦法放心的地方所以也就是說如果你沒辦法讓人家放心沒有辦法讓人家安心\n\n11\n00:03:31,388 --> 00:03:45,776\n那如何去做資安真的是讓大家肯定說政府在推任何的數位的東西都OK的都不會被詐騙的都不會被害辱的都不會被怎樣的部長你知道我的\n\n12\n00:03:46,656 --> 00:03:46,836\n接下來下一頁\n\n13\n00:04:09,261 --> 00:04:24,862\n我早在2022年那時候數位發展部剛成立的時候國科會那時候的吳政中他是政委兼國科會主委他也是行政院資安匯報的什麼\n\n14\n00:04:25,905 --> 00:04:26,165\n委員會委員會\n\n15\n00:04:52,068 --> 00:05:01,398\n也偵測了資安類科可是部長你知道嗎我們目前看到只有開缺6個人為什麼會是這樣子你知道嗎請資安署署長來來請\n\n16\n00:05:09,814 --> 00:05:26,148\n謝謝委員的確今年的開卷比較不多那我有去問了各個部會他們是目前他們覺得說還不太確定說那我問你我們中央不要管地方中央裡面的A級的資安的機關有幾個\n\n17\n00:05:29,076 --> 00:05:43,905\nA級有47個我剛剛講的上一頁你們的資安專職的正式人員僅佔全部的六成左右A級的機關又特別需要注重資安\n\n18\n00:05:44,605 --> 00:05:57,044\n可是呢我們看到現在我們好不容易跟人事總署爭取到跟行政院爭取到我增設了資安類科我可以國家來招考專業正式的資安人員那為什麼只有6個第一年開缺的時候因為\n\n19\n00:06:00,829 --> 00:06:00,949\n司法部長\n\n20\n00:06:19,025 --> 00:06:22,250\n因為這個開缺到報考他的那個時間其實有點短所以今年是的確您看到的數字比較低那我們來看明年他應該會有所改善因為大家其實很缺人啊不是其實各機關都缺人啊\n\n21\n00:06:51,826 --> 00:06:55,667\n我們訴發部不管是之前的唐鳳部長甚至到後來黃部長來拜訪我我就說你們要進行全國各機關就算各機關你們沒辦法盤點好了最沒A級的A類的你們真正需要的資安人員專業正式人員到底有多少那要怎麼跟行政院建議要怎麼跟各部會來溝通協調\n\n22\n00:07:16,651 --> 00:07:28,300\n你在溝通協調的時候你就跟各個部會應該跟各機關都要講我們有爭取要加開偵測資安類科就應該要去說服說各機關如果你有缺專業正式人員那我現在國考要增加這一個類科囉那你們是不是應該要提報你們現在怎麼會被動的來跟我講說因為呢開卻的時間太晚離現在呢所以報名的只有6個\n\n23\n00:07:42,665 --> 00:07:58,838\n這個不是理由吧。我們推資安的專業正式人員的這一件事情又不是今年才開始。是。報告委員的指導其實我們有認真的聽。然後我們也真的做了全國的巡迴跟機關說明的這個。\n\n24\n00:08:01,220 --> 00:08:01,260\n主席\n\n25\n00:08:33,303 --> 00:08:41,934\n這不是今年第一年講啊你現在跟我講說提的這個什麼時間太短所以造成這個後果那明年會更多\n\n26\n00:08:45,730 --> 00:09:10,688\n對,那個委員我們回去會檢討然後加速處理這個接下來第二個除了我們開這個國考之外第二個就是你剛剛部長所講的我們廣發英雄帖我們說各個機關裡面的資訊處理人員也可以來轉職或者是一般的主持要他的專業背景或者是他曾經有過那樣子的一個經驗他也可以來轉職系對不對\n\n27\n00:09:13,442 --> 00:09:29,932\n可是現在你們說每年要拚五千名職安人才那現在訓練五千名目標目標是今年目標五千名有達到嗎部長我跟你講你們達不到啊我跟你們要資料你們都還不敢跟我講說今年到底幾千人捏\n\n28\n00:09:31,801 --> 00:09:32,161\n報告委員我們有訓練\n\n29\n00:09:51,323 --> 00:09:53,969\n專職證書是2500人然後其他的專職連比如說工作坊訓練的60人這個數字上\n\n30\n00:10:03,052 --> 00:10:20,500\n第一個我再強調一次我已經先給你題目了是沒有給我書面資料在我質詢之前你不給我說拿不出來第二個我現在問的是因為我給你題目了你告訴我這個答案但是我要指也是這個答案是說有證書他就等於治安人員嗎\n\n31\n00:10:22,069 --> 00:10:37,641\n不是喔你們這個有兩個程式的處理喔像我說的回到我第一頁說的我們各機關的資安專業正式人員那必須要這兩件事要處理第一個要有休息學分\n\n32\n00:10:38,261 --> 00:10:52,207\n二十個學分以上而且必須要考試類科跟資訊處理直系相近第二個治安的專職人員還必須要有第一個證照第二個訓練證書跟一張以上因為你有不同的層級嘛有的要求兩張有人要求三張嘛對不對\n\n33\n00:10:54,568 --> 00:11:12,469\n是啊那所以因為呢不同的訓練不同的證照所以你們不同層級的治安人員那這個就是我希望這個不是你們說啊你什麼每年拼五千名啊那個五千名只是一個概括的數字啊我們真正要的是各機關裡面的\n\n34\n00:11:13,570 --> 00:11:27,000\n知安人員到底人手足不足我不希望像老法署那個資訊人員一樣只有他一名正式人員其他的都不是正式人員所以他一個人要扛整個北分署的一個責任\n\n35\n00:11:30,038 --> 00:11:35,400\n這件事情上我覺得人力不足還有我們的訓練專業訓練政府到底有沒有給足力量給足資源這才是我們要做的啊是不是我們第一個努力限職轉職系他的確是剛剛委員講的他必須要有20個學分或360個360個小時的學習那但是在職的人\n\n36\n00:12:17,395 --> 00:12:22,498\n那也不是你說的5000好吧那3000多人3000多人之後我們又要預算去支持他們讓他們能夠轉型成功不是嗎對報告委員其實部長講的5000人是全面的訓練就是已經是資安人員他也必須一直進步所以全部的人得拿執照的訓練可是我現在跟委員報告是轉直系\n\n37\n00:12:38,968 --> 00:13:04,082\n您們現行的專業的資安的正式人員就很少啊我也希望那個也謝謝委員的支持然後我也希望說各個部會能夠盡量支持我讓正式的專職人員能夠成立那這個我們也在修法就以後的強制度可能會高一點啦但是這個我覺得真的是必須努力真的是謝謝委員拜託啦部長我今天會質詢這個就是要讓你看到說數字不代表一切啦真正實際上各機關的\n\n38\n00:13:06,463 --> 00:13:21,705\n知安專業正是人力嚴重的不足啦那好吧不足那我們怎麼樣用最快的速度用最足夠的資源趕快來補足所以我拜託策略性請讓有效率的一個擬定策略第二個\n\n39\n00:13:22,045 --> 00:13:22,185\n謝謝委員指導謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n89\t1813\t我們請我們請黃部長委員好\n8615\t33013\t部長剛剛很多委員在擔心數位皮夾之前我是反對數位身份證的數位身份證為什麼因為我們大家都知道治安的問題所以數位皮夾你現在要推動最重要的是要取得人民的信任要取得人民的信任就是要治安能夠讓人家信任所以我今天就要來討論這個治安的問題\n36215\t37416\t數位皮夾有經過很多項的認證現在的技術還有應該都沒問題可是我給你看一個數據我們公部門的資安通報這個\n51485\t66875\t三層的原因未知：那各自沒有保障的情況之下民眾如何安心：這個我想這個數據是從你們這個數位發展部來的那如果說以2023年公部門的資安通報697件那你們要當了有市警那你們市警只是市警告訴各個部門說怎樣才有這個風險\n76661\t97132\t可是問題是要真正的維護各個公部門的資安通報後的一個個資的一個安全跟所謂的這個處理因應的話還是要來自於各部門的資訊人員、資安人員對不對通報之後各部門對就是是不是也要來自於各部門的這個資安人員\n99440\t119348\t是沒錯是沒錯嘛對不對好來問題是在於我們如何能夠信任政府的資安人員第一個人力夠不夠來你自己來看現在呢112年中央及地方政府的資安專職人員配置情形表\n120960\t147655\t這是你們給我的數字那我們統計了一下真正的資安的專職正式人員僅佔各個政府機關通報出來的人員的六成專職正式人員只有佔六成而且我必須要跟部長提醒一下這個表格裡面所提報的人數\n149622\t159472\t我跟你講是由各機關提報至於各機關提報的他認定的資安專職人員到底是不是真的資安專責人員\n161601\t182746\t我不知道你們有查核嗎我不知道那他的認定標準又是如何他是依據什麼來填報那我們呢速發布又是如何要來盤點檢討在整個提報裡面的資安專職的正式人員僅佔6成那其他4成都不是正式人員喔\n184351\t210467\t這是以數字來講第二個是以這麼多的機關裡面包括 ABC因為你們治安的層級有分ABC級那以ABC級呢你看喔中央地方你就有這樣子的一個人數上人力上還有專業上大家沒辦法放心的地方所以也就是說如果你沒辦法讓人家放心沒有辦法讓人家安心\n211388\t225776\t那如何去做資安真的是讓大家肯定說政府在推任何的數位的東西都OK的都不會被詐騙的都不會被害辱的都不會被怎樣的部長你知道我的\n226656\t226836\t接下來下一頁\n249261\t264862\t我早在2022年那時候數位發展部剛成立的時候國科會那時候的吳政中他是政委兼國科會主委他也是行政院資安匯報的什麼\n265905\t266165\t委員會委員會\n292068\t301398\t也偵測了資安類科可是部長你知道嗎我們目前看到只有開缺6個人為什麼會是這樣子你知道嗎請資安署署長來來請\n309814\t326148\t謝謝委員的確今年的開卷比較不多那我有去問了各個部會他們是目前他們覺得說還不太確定說那我問你我們中央不要管地方中央裡面的A級的資安的機關有幾個\n329076\t343905\tA級有47個我剛剛講的上一頁你們的資安專職的正式人員僅佔全部的六成左右A級的機關又特別需要注重資安\n344605\t357044\t可是呢我們看到現在我們好不容易跟人事總署爭取到跟行政院爭取到我增設了資安類科我可以國家來招考專業正式的資安人員那為什麼只有6個第一年開缺的時候因為\n360829\t360949\t司法部長\n379025\t382250\t因為這個開缺到報考他的那個時間其實有點短所以今年是的確您看到的數字比較低那我們來看明年他應該會有所改善因為大家其實很缺人啊不是其實各機關都缺人啊\n394787\t411766\t議員８\n411826\t415667\t我們訴發部不管是之前的唐鳳部長甚至到後來黃部長來拜訪我我就說你們要進行全國各機關就算各機關你們沒辦法盤點好了最沒A級的A類的你們真正需要的資安人員專業正式人員到底有多少那要怎麼跟行政院建議要怎麼跟各部會來溝通協調\n436651\t448300\t你在溝通協調的時候你就跟各個部會應該跟各機關都要講我們有爭取要加開偵測資安類科就應該要去說服說各機關如果你有缺專業正式人員那我現在國考要增加這一個類科囉那你們是不是應該要提報你們現在怎麼會被動的來跟我講說因為呢開卻的時間太晚離現在呢所以報名的只有6個\n462665\t478838\t這個不是理由吧。我們推資安的專業正式人員的這一件事情又不是今年才開始。是。報告委員的指導其實我們有認真的聽。然後我們也真的做了全國的巡迴跟機關說明的這個。\n481220\t481260\t主席\n513303\t521934\t這不是今年第一年講啊你現在跟我講說提的這個什麼時間太短所以造成這個後果那明年會更多\n525730\t550688\t對,那個委員我們回去會檢討然後加速處理這個接下來第二個除了我們開這個國考之外第二個就是你剛剛部長所講的我們廣發英雄帖我們說各個機關裡面的資訊處理人員也可以來轉職或者是一般的主持要他的專業背景或者是他曾經有過那樣子的一個經驗他也可以來轉職系對不對\n553442\t569932\t可是現在你們說每年要拚五千名職安人才那現在訓練五千名目標目標是今年目標五千名有達到嗎部長我跟你講你們達不到啊我跟你們要資料你們都還不敢跟我講說今年到底幾千人捏\n571801\t572161\t報告委員我們有訓練\n591323\t593969\t專職證書是2500人然後其他的專職連比如說工作坊訓練的60人這個數字上\n603052\t620500\t第一個我再強調一次我已經先給你題目了是沒有給我書面資料在我質詢之前你不給我說拿不出來第二個我現在問的是因為我給你題目了你告訴我這個答案但是我要指也是這個答案是說有證書他就等於治安人員嗎\n622069\t637641\t不是喔你們這個有兩個程式的處理喔像我說的回到我第一頁說的我們各機關的資安專業正式人員那必須要這兩件事要處理第一個要有休息學分\n638261\t652207\t二十個學分以上而且必須要考試類科跟資訊處理直系相近第二個治安的專職人員還必須要有第一個證照第二個訓練證書跟一張以上因為你有不同的層級嘛有的要求兩張有人要求三張嘛對不對\n654568\t672469\t是啊那所以因為呢不同的訓練不同的證照所以你們不同層級的治安人員那這個就是我希望這個不是你們說啊你什麼每年拼五千名啊那個五千名只是一個概括的數字啊我們真正要的是各機關裡面的\n673570\t687000\t知安人員到底人手足不足我不希望像老法署那個資訊人員一樣只有他一名正式人員其他的都不是正式人員所以他一個人要扛整個北分署的一個責任\n690038\t695400\t這件事情上我覺得人力不足還有我們的訓練專業訓練政府到底有沒有給足力量給足資源這才是我們要做的啊是不是我們第一個努力限職轉職系他的確是剛剛委員講的他必須要有20個學分或360個360個小時的學習那但是在職的人\n716067\t737295\t⋯⋯⋯\n737395\t742498\t那也不是你說的5000好吧那3000多人3000多人之後我們又要預算去支持他們讓他們能夠轉型成功不是嗎對報告委員其實部長講的5000人是全面的訓練就是已經是資安人員他也必須一直進步所以全部的人得拿執照的訓練可是我現在跟委員報告是轉直系\n758968\t784082\t您們現行的專業的資安的正式人員就很少啊我也希望那個也謝謝委員的支持然後我也希望說各個部會能夠盡量支持我讓正式的專職人員能夠成立那這個我們也在修法就以後的強制度可能會高一點啦但是這個我覺得真的是必須努力真的是謝謝委員拜託啦部長我今天會質詢這個就是要讓你看到說數字不代表一切啦真正實際上各機關的\n786463\t801705\t知安專業正是人力嚴重的不足啦那好吧不足那我們怎麼樣用最快的速度用最足夠的資源趕快來補足所以我拜託策略性請讓有效率的一個擬定策略第二個\n802045\t802185\t謝謝委員指導 謝謝\n","txt":"我們請我們請黃部長委員好\n部長剛剛很多委員在擔心數位皮夾之前我是反對數位身份證的數位身份證為什麼因為我們大家都知道治安的問題所以數位皮夾你現在要推動最重要的是要取得人民的信任要取得人民的信任就是要治安能夠讓人家信任所以我今天就要來討論這個治安的問題\n數位皮夾有經過很多項的認證現在的技術還有應該都沒問題可是我給你看一個數據我們公部門的資安通報這個\n三層的原因未知：那各自沒有保障的情況之下民眾如何安心：這個我想這個數據是從你們這個數位發展部來的那如果說以2023年公部門的資安通報697件那你們要當了有市警那你們市警只是市警告訴各個部門說怎樣才有這個風險\n可是問題是要真正的維護各個公部門的資安通報後的一個個資的一個安全跟所謂的這個處理因應的話還是要來自於各部門的資訊人員、資安人員對不對通報之後各部門對就是是不是也要來自於各部門的這個資安人員\n是沒錯是沒錯嘛對不對好來問題是在於我們如何能夠信任政府的資安人員第一個人力夠不夠來你自己來看現在呢112年中央及地方政府的資安專職人員配置情形表\n這是你們給我的數字那我們統計了一下真正的資安的專職正式人員僅佔各個政府機關通報出來的人員的六成專職正式人員只有佔六成而且我必須要跟部長提醒一下這個表格裡面所提報的人數\n我跟你講是由各機關提報至於各機關提報的他認定的資安專職人員到底是不是真的資安專責人員\n我不知道你們有查核嗎我不知道那他的認定標準又是如何他是依據什麼來填報那我們呢速發布又是如何要來盤點檢討在整個提報裡面的資安專職的正式人員僅佔6成那其他4成都不是正式人員喔\n這是以數字來講第二個是以這麼多的機關裡面包括 ABC因為你們治安的層級有分ABC級那以ABC級呢你看喔中央地方你就有這樣子的一個人數上人力上還有專業上大家沒辦法放心的地方所以也就是說如果你沒辦法讓人家放心沒有辦法讓人家安心\n那如何去做資安真的是讓大家肯定說政府在推任何的數位的東西都OK的都不會被詐騙的都不會被害辱的都不會被怎樣的部長你知道我的\n接下來下一頁\n我早在2022年那時候數位發展部剛成立的時候國科會那時候的吳政中他是政委兼國科會主委他也是行政院資安匯報的什麼\n委員會委員會\n也偵測了資安類科可是部長你知道嗎我們目前看到只有開缺6個人為什麼會是這樣子你知道嗎請資安署署長來來請\n謝謝委員的確今年的開卷比較不多那我有去問了各個部會他們是目前他們覺得說還不太確定說那我問你我們中央不要管地方中央裡面的A級的資安的機關有幾個\nA級有47個我剛剛講的上一頁你們的資安專職的正式人員僅佔全部的六成左右A級的機關又特別需要注重資安\n可是呢我們看到現在我們好不容易跟人事總署爭取到跟行政院爭取到我增設了資安類科我可以國家來招考專業正式的資安人員那為什麼只有6個第一年開缺的時候因為\n司法部長\n因為這個開缺到報考他的那個時間其實有點短所以今年是的確您看到的數字比較低那我們來看明年他應該會有所改善因為大家其實很缺人啊不是其實各機關都缺人啊\n議員８\n我們訴發部不管是之前的唐鳳部長甚至到後來黃部長來拜訪我我就說你們要進行全國各機關就算各機關你們沒辦法盤點好了最沒A級的A類的你們真正需要的資安人員專業正式人員到底有多少那要怎麼跟行政院建議要怎麼跟各部會來溝通協調\n你在溝通協調的時候你就跟各個部會應該跟各機關都要講我們有爭取要加開偵測資安類科就應該要去說服說各機關如果你有缺專業正式人員那我現在國考要增加這一個類科囉那你們是不是應該要提報你們現在怎麼會被動的來跟我講說因為呢開卻的時間太晚離現在呢所以報名的只有6個\n這個不是理由吧。我們推資安的專業正式人員的這一件事情又不是今年才開始。是。報告委員的指導其實我們有認真的聽。然後我們也真的做了全國的巡迴跟機關說明的這個。\n主席\n這不是今年第一年講啊你現在跟我講說提的這個什麼時間太短所以造成這個後果那明年會更多\n對,那個委員我們回去會檢討然後加速處理這個接下來第二個除了我們開這個國考之外第二個就是你剛剛部長所講的我們廣發英雄帖我們說各個機關裡面的資訊處理人員也可以來轉職或者是一般的主持要他的專業背景或者是他曾經有過那樣子的一個經驗他也可以來轉職系對不對\n可是現在你們說每年要拚五千名職安人才那現在訓練五千名目標目標是今年目標五千名有達到嗎部長我跟你講你們達不到啊我跟你們要資料你們都還不敢跟我講說今年到底幾千人捏\n報告委員我們有訓練\n專職證書是2500人然後其他的專職連比如說工作坊訓練的60人這個數字上\n第一個我再強調一次我已經先給你題目了是沒有給我書面資料在我質詢之前你不給我說拿不出來第二個我現在問的是因為我給你題目了你告訴我這個答案但是我要指也是這個答案是說有證書他就等於治安人員嗎\n不是喔你們這個有兩個程式的處理喔像我說的回到我第一頁說的我們各機關的資安專業正式人員那必須要這兩件事要處理第一個要有休息學分\n二十個學分以上而且必須要考試類科跟資訊處理直系相近第二個治安的專職人員還必須要有第一個證照第二個訓練證書跟一張以上因為你有不同的層級嘛有的要求兩張有人要求三張嘛對不對\n是啊那所以因為呢不同的訓練不同的證照所以你們不同層級的治安人員那這個就是我希望這個不是你們說啊你什麼每年拼五千名啊那個五千名只是一個概括的數字啊我們真正要的是各機關裡面的\n知安人員到底人手足不足我不希望像老法署那個資訊人員一樣只有他一名正式人員其他的都不是正式人員所以他一個人要扛整個北分署的一個責任\n這件事情上我覺得人力不足還有我們的訓練專業訓練政府到底有沒有給足力量給足資源這才是我們要做的啊是不是我們第一個努力限職轉職系他的確是剛剛委員講的他必須要有20個學分或360個360個小時的學習那但是在職的人\n⋯⋯⋯\n那也不是你說的5000好吧那3000多人3000多人之後我們又要預算去支持他們讓他們能夠轉型成功不是嗎對報告委員其實部長講的5000人是全面的訓練就是已經是資安人員他也必須一直進步所以全部的人得拿執照的訓練可是我現在跟委員報告是轉直系\n您們現行的專業的資安的正式人員就很少啊我也希望那個也謝謝委員的支持然後我也希望說各個部會能夠盡量支持我讓正式的專職人員能夠成立那這個我們也在修法就以後的強制度可能會高一點啦但是這個我覺得真的是必須努力真的是謝謝委員拜託啦部長我今天會質詢這個就是要讓你看到說數字不代表一切啦真正實際上各機關的\n知安專業正是人力嚴重的不足啦那好吧不足那我們怎麼樣用最快的速度用最足夠的資源趕快來補足所以我拜託策略性請讓有效率的一個擬定策略第二個\n謝謝委員指導 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.089 --> 00:01.813\n我們請我們請黃部長委員好\n\n00:08.615 --> 00:33.013\n部長剛剛很多委員在擔心數位皮夾之前我是反對數位身份證的數位身份證為什麼因為我們大家都知道治安的問題所以數位皮夾你現在要推動最重要的是要取得人民的信任要取得人民的信任就是要治安能夠讓人家信任所以我今天就要來討論這個治安的問題\n\n00:36.215 --> 00:37.416\n數位皮夾有經過很多項的認證現在的技術還有應該都沒問題可是我給你看一個數據我們公部門的資安通報這個\n\n00:51.485 --> 01:06.875\n三層的原因未知：那各自沒有保障的情況之下民眾如何安心：這個我想這個數據是從你們這個數位發展部來的那如果說以2023年公部門的資安通報697件那你們要當了有市警那你們市警只是市警告訴各個部門說怎樣才有這個風險\n\n01:16.661 --> 01:37.132\n可是問題是要真正的維護各個公部門的資安通報後的一個個資的一個安全跟所謂的這個處理因應的話還是要來自於各部門的資訊人員、資安人員對不對通報之後各部門對就是是不是也要來自於各部門的這個資安人員\n\n01:39.440 --> 01:59.348\n是沒錯是沒錯嘛對不對好來問題是在於我們如何能夠信任政府的資安人員第一個人力夠不夠來你自己來看現在呢112年中央及地方政府的資安專職人員配置情形表\n\n02:00.960 --> 02:27.655\n這是你們給我的數字那我們統計了一下真正的資安的專職正式人員僅佔各個政府機關通報出來的人員的六成專職正式人員只有佔六成而且我必須要跟部長提醒一下這個表格裡面所提報的人數\n\n02:29.622 --> 02:39.472\n我跟你講是由各機關提報至於各機關提報的他認定的資安專職人員到底是不是真的資安專責人員\n\n02:41.601 --> 03:02.746\n我不知道你們有查核嗎我不知道那他的認定標準又是如何他是依據什麼來填報那我們呢速發布又是如何要來盤點檢討在整個提報裡面的資安專職的正式人員僅佔6成那其他4成都不是正式人員喔\n\n03:04.351 --> 03:30.467\n這是以數字來講第二個是以這麼多的機關裡面包括ABC因為你們治安的層級有分ABC級那以ABC級呢你看喔中央地方你就有這樣子的一個人數上人力上還有專業上大家沒辦法放心的地方所以也就是說如果你沒辦法讓人家放心沒有辦法讓人家安心\n\n03:31.388 --> 03:45.776\n那如何去做資安真的是讓大家肯定說政府在推任何的數位的東西都OK的都不會被詐騙的都不會被害辱的都不會被怎樣的部長你知道我的\n\n03:46.656 --> 03:46.836\n接下來下一頁\n\n04:09.261 --> 04:24.862\n我早在2022年那時候數位發展部剛成立的時候國科會那時候的吳政中他是政委兼國科會主委他也是行政院資安匯報的什麼\n\n04:25.905 --> 04:26.165\n委員會委員會\n\n04:52.068 --> 05:01.398\n也偵測了資安類科可是部長你知道嗎我們目前看到只有開缺6個人為什麼會是這樣子你知道嗎請資安署署長來來請\n\n05:09.814 --> 05:26.148\n謝謝委員的確今年的開卷比較不多那我有去問了各個部會他們是目前他們覺得說還不太確定說那我問你我們中央不要管地方中央裡面的A級的資安的機關有幾個\n\n05:29.076 --> 05:43.905\nA級有47個我剛剛講的上一頁你們的資安專職的正式人員僅佔全部的六成左右A級的機關又特別需要注重資安\n\n05:44.605 --> 05:57.044\n可是呢我們看到現在我們好不容易跟人事總署爭取到跟行政院爭取到我增設了資安類科我可以國家來招考專業正式的資安人員那為什麼只有6個第一年開缺的時候因為\n\n06:00.829 --> 06:00.949\n司法部長\n\n06:19.025 --> 06:22.250\n因為這個開缺到報考他的那個時間其實有點短所以今年是的確您看到的數字比較低那我們來看明年他應該會有所改善因為大家其實很缺人啊不是其實各機關都缺人啊\n\n06:51.826 --> 06:55.667\n我們訴發部不管是之前的唐鳳部長甚至到後來黃部長來拜訪我我就說你們要進行全國各機關就算各機關你們沒辦法盤點好了最沒A級的A類的你們真正需要的資安人員專業正式人員到底有多少那要怎麼跟行政院建議要怎麼跟各部會來溝通協調\n\n07:16.651 --> 07:28.300\n你在溝通協調的時候你就跟各個部會應該跟各機關都要講我們有爭取要加開偵測資安類科就應該要去說服說各機關如果你有缺專業正式人員那我現在國考要增加這一個類科囉那你們是不是應該要提報你們現在怎麼會被動的來跟我講說因為呢開卻的時間太晚離現在呢所以報名的只有6個\n\n07:42.665 --> 07:58.838\n這個不是理由吧。我們推資安的專業正式人員的這一件事情又不是今年才開始。是。報告委員的指導其實我們有認真的聽。然後我們也真的做了全國的巡迴跟機關說明的這個。\n\n08:01.220 --> 08:01.260\n主席\n\n08:33.303 --> 08:41.934\n這不是今年第一年講啊你現在跟我講說提的這個什麼時間太短所以造成這個後果那明年會更多\n\n08:45.730 --> 09:10.688\n對,那個委員我們回去會檢討然後加速處理這個接下來第二個除了我們開這個國考之外第二個就是你剛剛部長所講的我們廣發英雄帖我們說各個機關裡面的資訊處理人員也可以來轉職或者是一般的主持要他的專業背景或者是他曾經有過那樣子的一個經驗他也可以來轉職系對不對\n\n09:13.442 --> 09:29.932\n可是現在你們說每年要拚五千名職安人才那現在訓練五千名目標目標是今年目標五千名有達到嗎部長我跟你講你們達不到啊我跟你們要資料你們都還不敢跟我講說今年到底幾千人捏\n\n09:31.801 --> 09:32.161\n報告委員我們有訓練\n\n09:51.323 --> 09:53.969\n專職證書是2500人然後其他的專職連比如說工作坊訓練的60人這個數字上\n\n10:03.052 --> 10:20.500\n第一個我再強調一次我已經先給你題目了是沒有給我書面資料在我質詢之前你不給我說拿不出來第二個我現在問的是因為我給你題目了你告訴我這個答案但是我要指也是這個答案是說有證書他就等於治安人員嗎\n\n10:22.069 --> 10:37.641\n不是喔你們這個有兩個程式的處理喔像我說的回到我第一頁說的我們各機關的資安專業正式人員那必須要這兩件事要處理第一個要有休息學分\n\n10:38.261 --> 10:52.207\n二十個學分以上而且必須要考試類科跟資訊處理直系相近第二個治安的專職人員還必須要有第一個證照第二個訓練證書跟一張以上因為你有不同的層級嘛有的要求兩張有人要求三張嘛對不對\n\n10:54.568 --> 11:12.469\n是啊那所以因為呢不同的訓練不同的證照所以你們不同層級的治安人員那這個就是我希望這個不是你們說啊你什麼每年拼五千名啊那個五千名只是一個概括的數字啊我們真正要的是各機關裡面的\n\n11:13.570 --> 11:27.000\n知安人員到底人手足不足我不希望像老法署那個資訊人員一樣只有他一名正式人員其他的都不是正式人員所以他一個人要扛整個北分署的一個責任\n\n11:30.038 --> 11:35.400\n這件事情上我覺得人力不足還有我們的訓練專業訓練政府到底有沒有給足力量給足資源這才是我們要做的啊是不是我們第一個努力限職轉職系他的確是剛剛委員講的他必須要有20個學分或360個360個小時的學習那但是在職的人\n\n12:17.395 --> 12:22.498\n那也不是你說的5000好吧那3000多人3000多人之後我們又要預算去支持他們讓他們能夠轉型成功不是嗎對報告委員其實部長講的5000人是全面的訓練就是已經是資安人員他也必須一直進步所以全部的人得拿執照的訓練可是我現在跟委員報告是轉直系\n\n12:38.968 --> 13:04.082\n您們現行的專業的資安的正式人員就很少啊我也希望那個也謝謝委員的支持然後我也希望說各個部會能夠盡量支持我讓正式的專職人員能夠成立那這個我們也在修法就以後的強制度可能會高一點啦但是這個我覺得真的是必須努力真的是謝謝委員拜託啦部長我今天會質詢這個就是要讓你看到說數字不代表一切啦真正實際上各機關的\n\n13:06.463 --> 13:21.705\n知安專業正是人力嚴重的不足啦那好吧不足那我們怎麼樣用最快的速度用最足夠的資源趕快來補足所以我拜託策略性請讓有效率的一個擬定策略第二個\n\n13:22.045 --> 13:22.185\n謝謝委員指導謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.089,"end":1.813,"text":"我們請我們請黃部長委員好"},{"start":8.615,"end":33.013,"text":"部長剛剛很多委員在擔心數位皮夾之前我是反對數位身份證的數位身份證為什麼因為我們大家都知道治安的問題所以數位皮夾你現在要推動最重要的是要取得人民的信任要取得人民的信任就是要治安能夠讓人家信任所以我今天就要來討論這個治安的問題"},{"start":36.215,"end":37.416,"text":"數位皮夾有經過很多項的認證現在的技術還有應該都沒問題可是我給你看一個數據我們公部門的資安通報這個"},{"start":51.485,"end":66.875,"text":"三層的原因未知：那各自沒有保障的情況之下民眾如何安心：這個我想這個數據是從你們這個數位發展部來的那如果說以2023年公部門的資安通報697件那你們要當了有市警那你們市警只是市警告訴各個部門說怎樣才有這個風險"},{"start":76.661,"end":97.132,"text":"可是問題是要真正的維護各個公部門的資安通報後的一個個資的一個安全跟所謂的這個處理因應的話還是要來自於各部門的資訊人員、資安人員對不對通報之後各部門對就是是不是也要來自於各部門的這個資安人員"},{"start":99.44,"end":119.348,"text":"是沒錯是沒錯嘛對不對好來問題是在於我們如何能夠信任政府的資安人員第一個人力夠不夠來你自己來看現在呢112年中央及地方政府的資安專職人員配置情形表"},{"start":120.96,"end":147.655,"text":"這是你們給我的數字那我們統計了一下真正的資安的專職正式人員僅佔各個政府機關通報出來的人員的六成專職正式人員只有佔六成而且我必須要跟部長提醒一下這個表格裡面所提報的人數"},{"start":149.622,"end":159.472,"text":"我跟你講是由各機關提報至於各機關提報的他認定的資安專職人員到底是不是真的資安專責人員"},{"start":161.601,"end":182.746,"text":"我不知道你們有查核嗎我不知道那他的認定標準又是如何他是依據什麼來填報那我們呢速發布又是如何要來盤點檢討在整個提報裡面的資安專職的正式人員僅佔6成那其他4成都不是正式人員喔"},{"start":184.351,"end":210.467,"text":"這是以數字來講第二個是以這麼多的機關裡面包括 ABC因為你們治安的層級有分ABC級那以ABC級呢你看喔中央地方你就有這樣子的一個人數上人力上還有專業上大家沒辦法放心的地方所以也就是說如果你沒辦法讓人家放心沒有辦法讓人家安心"},{"start":211.388,"end":225.776,"text":"那如何去做資安真的是讓大家肯定說政府在推任何的數位的東西都OK的都不會被詐騙的都不會被害辱的都不會被怎樣的部長你知道我的"},{"start":226.656,"end":226.836,"text":"接下來下一頁"},{"start":249.261,"end":264.862,"text":"我早在2022年那時候數位發展部剛成立的時候國科會那時候的吳政中他是政委兼國科會主委他也是行政院資安匯報的什麼"},{"start":265.905,"end":266.165,"text":"委員會委員會"},{"start":292.068,"end":301.398,"text":"也偵測了資安類科可是部長你知道嗎我們目前看到只有開缺6個人為什麼會是這樣子你知道嗎請資安署署長來來請"},{"start":309.814,"end":326.148,"text":"謝謝委員的確今年的開卷比較不多那我有去問了各個部會他們是目前他們覺得說還不太確定說那我問你我們中央不要管地方中央裡面的A級的資安的機關有幾個"},{"start":329.076,"end":343.905,"text":"A級有47個我剛剛講的上一頁你們的資安專職的正式人員僅佔全部的六成左右A級的機關又特別需要注重資安"},{"start":344.605,"end":357.044,"text":"可是呢我們看到現在我們好不容易跟人事總署爭取到跟行政院爭取到我增設了資安類科我可以國家來招考專業正式的資安人員那為什麼只有6個第一年開缺的時候因為"},{"start":360.829,"end":360.949,"text":"司法部長"},{"start":379.025,"end":382.25,"text":"因為這個開缺到報考他的那個時間其實有點短所以今年是的確您看到的數字比較低那我們來看明年他應該會有所改善因為大家其實很缺人啊不是其實各機關都缺人啊"},{"start":394.787,"end":411.766,"text":"議員８"},{"start":411.826,"end":415.667,"text":"我們訴發部不管是之前的唐鳳部長甚至到後來黃部長來拜訪我我就說你們要進行全國各機關就算各機關你們沒辦法盤點好了最沒A級的A類的你們真正需要的資安人員專業正式人員到底有多少那要怎麼跟行政院建議要怎麼跟各部會來溝通協調"},{"start":436.651,"end":448.3,"text":"你在溝通協調的時候你就跟各個部會應該跟各機關都要講我們有爭取要加開偵測資安類科就應該要去說服說各機關如果你有缺專業正式人員那我現在國考要增加這一個類科囉那你們是不是應該要提報你們現在怎麼會被動的來跟我講說因為呢開卻的時間太晚離現在呢所以報名的只有6個"},{"start":462.665,"end":478.838,"text":"這個不是理由吧。我們推資安的專業正式人員的這一件事情又不是今年才開始。是。報告委員的指導其實我們有認真的聽。然後我們也真的做了全國的巡迴跟機關說明的這個。"},{"start":481.22,"end":481.26,"text":"主席"},{"start":513.303,"end":521.934,"text":"這不是今年第一年講啊你現在跟我講說提的這個什麼時間太短所以造成這個後果那明年會更多"},{"start":525.73,"end":550.688,"text":"對,那個委員我們回去會檢討然後加速處理這個接下來第二個除了我們開這個國考之外第二個就是你剛剛部長所講的我們廣發英雄帖我們說各個機關裡面的資訊處理人員也可以來轉職或者是一般的主持要他的專業背景或者是他曾經有過那樣子的一個經驗他也可以來轉職系對不對"},{"start":553.442,"end":569.932,"text":"可是現在你們說每年要拚五千名職安人才那現在訓練五千名目標目標是今年目標五千名有達到嗎部長我跟你講你們達不到啊我跟你們要資料你們都還不敢跟我講說今年到底幾千人捏"},{"start":571.801,"end":572.161,"text":"報告委員我們有訓練"},{"start":591.323,"end":593.969,"text":"專職證書是2500人然後其他的專職連比如說工作坊訓練的60人這個數字上"},{"start":603.052,"end":620.5,"text":"第一個我再強調一次我已經先給你題目了是沒有給我書面資料在我質詢之前你不給我說拿不出來第二個我現在問的是因為我給你題目了你告訴我這個答案但是我要指也是這個答案是說有證書他就等於治安人員嗎"},{"start":622.069,"end":637.641,"text":"不是喔你們這個有兩個程式的處理喔像我說的回到我第一頁說的我們各機關的資安專業正式人員那必須要這兩件事要處理第一個要有休息學分"},{"start":638.261,"end":652.207,"text":"二十個學分以上而且必須要考試類科跟資訊處理直系相近第二個治安的專職人員還必須要有第一個證照第二個訓練證書跟一張以上因為你有不同的層級嘛有的要求兩張有人要求三張嘛對不對"},{"start":654.568,"end":672.469,"text":"是啊那所以因為呢不同的訓練不同的證照所以你們不同層級的治安人員那這個就是我希望這個不是你們說啊你什麼每年拼五千名啊那個五千名只是一個概括的數字啊我們真正要的是各機關裡面的"},{"start":673.57,"end":687,"text":"知安人員到底人手足不足我不希望像老法署那個資訊人員一樣只有他一名正式人員其他的都不是正式人員所以他一個人要扛整個北分署的一個責任"},{"start":690.038,"end":695.4,"text":"這件事情上我覺得人力不足還有我們的訓練專業訓練政府到底有沒有給足力量給足資源這才是我們要做的啊是不是我們第一個努力限職轉職系他的確是剛剛委員講的他必須要有20個學分或360個360個小時的學習那但是在職的人"},{"start":716.067,"end":737.295,"text":"⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":737.395,"end":742.498,"text":"那也不是你說的5000好吧那3000多人3000多人之後我們又要預算去支持他們讓他們能夠轉型成功不是嗎對報告委員其實部長講的5000人是全面的訓練就是已經是資安人員他也必須一直進步所以全部的人得拿執照的訓練可是我現在跟委員報告是轉直系"},{"start":758.968,"end":784.082,"text":"您們現行的專業的資安的正式人員就很少啊我也希望那個也謝謝委員的支持然後我也希望說各個部會能夠盡量支持我讓正式的專職人員能夠成立那這個我們也在修法就以後的強制度可能會高一點啦但是這個我覺得真的是必須努力真的是謝謝委員拜託啦部長我今天會質詢這個就是要讓你看到說數字不代表一切啦真正實際上各機關的"},{"start":786.463,"end":801.705,"text":"知安專業正是人力嚴重的不足啦那好吧不足那我們怎麼樣用最快的速度用最足夠的資源趕快來補足所以我拜託策略性請讓有效率的一個擬定策略第二個"},{"start":802.045,"end":802.185,"text":"謝謝委員指導 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":443,"blocks":[["何委員欣純：（10時36分）謝謝，我們請黃部長。"],["主席：麻煩黃部長。"],["黃部長彥男：委員好。"],["何委員欣純：部長好。剛剛很多委員在擔心數位皮夾，之前我是反對數位身分證的，為什麼？因為大家都知道是資安的問題，所以你現在要推動數位皮夾，最重要的是要取得人民的信任，要取得人民的信任就是資安要能夠讓人家信任，所以我今天就要來討論資安的問題，你剛剛跟我講數位皮夾有經過很多項的認證，然後現在的技術，還有什麼、什麼，應該都沒問題，可是我給你看一個數據，我們公部門的資安通報，三成的原因未知，個資沒有保障的情況之下，民眾如何安心？我想這個數據是從你們數位發展部來的，如果以2023年公部門的資安通報697件，你們當然有示警，但你們示警只是告訴各個部門怎樣有這個風險，可是問題是要真正維護各個公部門資安通報後的個資安全跟所謂的處理因應，還是要來自於各部門的資訊人員、資安人員，對不對？"],["黃部長彥男：對，通報之後，各部門就是……"],["何委員欣純：是不是也要來自於各部門的資安人員？"],["黃部長彥男：對，是沒錯。"],["何委員欣純：是沒錯嘛，對不對？好。問題在於我們如何能夠信任政府的資安人員，第一個，人力夠不夠？你自己來看，現在112年中央及地方政府的資安專職人員配置情形表，這是你們給我的數字，我們統計了一下，真正的資安專職正式人員僅占各個政府機關通報出來的人員六成，專職正式人員只有占六成，而且我必須要跟部長提醒一下，這個表格裡面所提報的人數，我跟你講是由各機關提報，至於各機關提報，他們所認定的資安專職人員到底是不是真的資安專職人員，我不知道，你們有查核嗎？我不知道。而認定標準又是如何，它是依據什麼來填報，數發部又是如何盤點、檢討，在整個提報裡面，資安專職的正式人員僅占六成，其他四成都不是正式人員，這是以數字來講。第二個，是以這麼多的機關裡面，包括ABC，因為你們資安的層級有分ABC級，以ABC級來看，中央、地方就有人數上、人力上還有專業上，大家沒辦法放心的地方，也就是說，如果你沒辦法讓人家放心，沒辦法讓人家安心，那要如何去做資安，真的要讓大家肯定政府推的任何數位東西都是OK的，都不會被詐騙、不會被駭入、不會被怎樣？部長，你知道我的提醒嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：好，了解，謝謝委員的提醒。的確，資安人力的不足確實是個問題，所以我們在資安署、資安院有不同的program在訓練人才，剛剛我一開始業務報告時也提過，基本上，資安轉職訓培養大概至少2,000人……"],["何委員欣純：這個就是我接下來要跟你討論的問題。早在2022年，那時候數位發展部剛成立，吳政忠是政委兼國科會主委，也是行政院資安會報召集人，我曾經問過他國內各機關的資安人員夠不夠？他跟我說不夠。好，在資安會報針對中央、地方各機關以ABC分級之後，針對資安人員不足的問題要如何解決？那時候我們討論了，就是要招考資安人員，對不對？所以今年也增設了資安類科，可是部長你知道嗎？目前看到的只有開缺6人，為什麼會這樣？你知道嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：請資安署署長說明。"],["謝署長翠娟：謝謝委員。的確今年開缺比較不多，我也有去詢問各個部會，他們是覺得目前還不太確定……"],["何委員欣純：那我問你，先不管地方，在中央政府部分，屬於A級資安機關的有幾個？"],["謝署長翠娟：A級有47個。"],["何委員欣純：47個，就像我剛剛講的，你們資安專職正式人員僅占全部人員六成左右，而A級機關又特別需要注重資安，可是我們好不容易跟人事總處爭取、跟行政院爭取增設了資安類科，以國家考試方式招考專業正式資安人員，那為什麼只有6個缺？"],["謝署長翠娟：第一年開缺的時候，因為機關也想要……我們訪談的結果，各機關想要被訓練成熟、已經拿到證書的人，他們覺得剛考上的人沒有辦法立刻上手，這點是必須再溝通，跟必須要……"],["何委員欣純：剛考上沒有辦法上手？在資安類科考試上，你們不是本來就有要求他們的專業背景能力……"],["謝署長翠娟：報告委員，因為開缺到報考的時間其實有點短，所以今年的確您看到的數字是比較低，我想明年應該會有所改善，因為大家其實都很缺人。"],["何委員欣純：是啊！其實各機關都缺人啊！"],["謝署長翠娟：是。"],["何委員欣純：嚴重的不足嘛！對不對？2022年我們在爭取的時候，就要求要增加資安類科的考試，你記不記得2022年跟2023年，我就不斷要求數發部，不管是之前的唐鳳部長，甚至後來黃部長來拜訪我，我就要求你們要進行全國各機關的盤點，就算各機關你們沒辦法盤點，至少針對A級的、A類的機關，你們要瞭解真正需要的資安專業正式人員到底多少人？然後要怎麼跟行政院建議，怎麼跟各部會來溝通、協調？然後在溝通協調的時候，就應該跟各機關說明我們有爭取到加開增設資安類科，國考要增加這一個類科，如果各機關有缺專業正式人員，應該要趕快提報，結果你現在被動的來跟我說因為開缺的時間太晚，所以報名的只有6個，這不是理由吧！"],["謝署長翠娟：報告委員……"],["何委員欣純：我們推資安專業正式人員的這件事情，又不是今年才開始。"],["謝署長翠娟：是，報告委員，委員的指導其實我們都有認真聽，我們也真的做了全國的巡迴，跟機關說明這個……"],["何委員欣純：你們就只有去巡迴，然後巡迴是跟誰講，我不知道啦！"],["謝署長翠娟：不好意思，其實機關有想要增額錄取，問題是他們提出來的時間沒搭上，所以我會覺得今年……"],["何委員欣純：時間沒搭上？"],["謝署長翠娟：對，不好意思，因為去年才剛開始第一次考試，所以機關準備的時間其實也不夠多，因為提報考缺可能要比較長時間，譬如半年前……"],["何委員欣純：署長、部長，我們講這件事並不是今年第一年講啊！"],["黃部長彥男：委員，回去我再……"],["何委員欣純：不是今年第一年講，你現在跟我說什麼時間太短，所以造成這個後果，明年會更多……"],["謝署長翠娟：我們機關都有同意他們要報……"],["黃部長彥男：對，委員，我們回去會檢討，然後加速處理。"],["何委員欣純：除了開國考之外，第二個就是剛剛部長所講的廣發英雄帖，就是各個機關裡的資訊處理人員也可以轉職，或者是一般職組，只要他的專業背景或者曾經有過那樣的經驗，也可以來轉職系，對不對？你們說每年要拚5,000名資安人才，現在呢？"],["黃部長彥男：訓練5,000名為目標。"],["何委員欣純：今年目標5,000名，有達到嗎？部長，我跟你講，你們達不到啊！我跟你們要資料，你們還不敢跟我講今年到底幾千人欸！你們沒有給我答案，不給我資料欸！"],["黃部長彥男：我們回去補資料給委員，我們是包括資安院和資安署的訓練加起來。"],["何委員欣純：加起來多少人，你現在可以告訴我嗎？因為我跟你要資料，你不給我啊！"],["謝署長翠娟：報告委員，我們訓練資安有專職證書是2,500人，然後其他專職人員，譬如工作坊訓練的60人……"],["何委員欣純：第一個，我再強調一次，我已經先給你題目了，但你沒有給我書面資料，在我質詢之前你不給我，你們說拿不出來。第二個，我現在問的，是因為我給你題目，你告訴我這個答案，但是我質疑的是，這個答案是說有證書的，但他就等於是資安人員嗎？不是喔！這有兩個層次的處理，回到我前面說的，各機關資安專業正式人員必須有這兩件事要處理，第一個，要修習20個學分以上，而且必須考試類科跟資訊處理職系相近。第二個，資安專職人員還必須要有一、證照，二、訓練證書，各1張以上，因為你有不同層級，有的要求2張，有的要求3張，對不對？因為不同的訓練有不同的證照，所以你們有不同層級的資安人員，這個不是你們說的什麼每年拚5,000名，5,000名只是一個概括數字，我們真正要的是各機關裡的資安人員。現在到底人手足不足？我不希望像勞發署那個資訊人員一樣，只有他一名正式人員，其他都不是正式人員，所以他一個人要扛整個北分署的責任。這件事情上，我覺得人力不足，還有我們的訓練、專業訓練，政府到底有沒有給足力量、給足資源，這才是我們要做的，是不是？"],["謝署長翠娟：是，謝謝委員。第一個，現職轉職系部分，的確如委員剛剛講的，必須要有20個學分或360個小時的學習，但是在職人員必須要合格，也必須拿2張證照，所以這兩種訓練我們都有在辦，當然資源還是不夠，因為現在想要轉的人有3,307個，但我們爭取的預算還不夠，所以我們會儘量一直努力，然後也請委員多多支持。"],["何委員欣純：申請要轉銜的有三千多人，那也不是你說的5,000人啊！好吧！這三千多人，我們要有預算去支持他們，讓他們能夠轉銜成功，不是嗎？"],["謝署長翠娟：對，報告委員，其實部長講的5,000人是全面的訓練，就是已經是資安人員，也必須一直進步，所以是全部有拿執照的人的訓練，而我現在跟委員報告的是轉職系的部分。"],["何委員欣純：可是你們現行專業正式資安人員就很少啊！"],["謝署長翠娟：謝謝委員的支持，我也希望各個部會能夠儘量支持我們，讓正式專職人員能夠成立，這個在修法後，強制度可能會高一點，但是這部分我們真的還必須再努力，真的謝謝委員。"],["何委員欣純：是啦！拜託啦！部長，我今天會質詢這個問題，就是要讓你知道數字不代表一切，真正實際的問題是各機關資安專業正式人力的嚴重不足。好，在不足的情況下，要怎麼用最快的速度、用最足夠的資源趕快補足？第一，拜託你們要有效率的擬定一個策略。第二，儘速把補足資安人員的時程表提出來。第三是專業的輔導，資安人員的工作壓力、專業的輔導跟他們專業能力的提升，這些都非常重要，好不好？拜託部長，謝謝。"],["黃部長彥男：謝謝委員指導。"],["主席（魯委員明哲）：謝謝何委員。先作以下宣告：待會到廖先翔委員發言完畢，休息10分鐘。","接下來有請黃健豪委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":286,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-13","speakers":["魯明哲","林沛祥","林國成","李昆澤","陳素月","林俊憲","何欣純","黃健豪","廖先翔","陳雪生","邱若華","徐富癸","蔡其昌","許智傑","游顥","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","葛如鈞","洪孟楷","吳春城","葉元之","黃國昌","林楚茵","劉建國","羅美玲"],"page_start":211,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311001_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢；二、審查114年度中\n央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算（僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11311001_00005"}}}