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\"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 691.274, \"end\": 691.294, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 691.294, \"end\": 691.394, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 691.394, \"end\": 691.434, \"score\": 0.109}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 691.434, \"end\": 691.674, \"score\": 0.662}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 691.674, \"end\": 691.694, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"哪\", \"start\": 691.694, \"end\": 691.894, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 691.894, \"end\": 691.974, \"score\": 0.696}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 691.974, \"end\": 691.994, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 718.53, \"end\": 736.248, \"text\": \"所以我們所有議事委員要投入的案子有多少上千案喔另外所有的部會首長的財產申報調查委員會如果不幸也成立了所有的部會首長到底擴及哪些廣義來講立法院院長也是首長之一喔\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 718.53, \"end\": 718.67, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 718.67, \"end\": 718.73, \"score\": 0.65}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 718.73, \"end\": 719.011, 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{\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 729.281, \"end\": 729.361, \"score\": 0.744}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 729.361, \"end\": 729.682, \"score\": 0.822}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 729.682, \"end\": 729.862, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"首\", \"start\": 729.862, \"end\": 730.402, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 730.402, \"end\": 730.743, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"底\", \"start\": 730.743, \"end\": 731.303, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"擴\"}, {\"word\": \"及\", \"start\": 731.303, \"end\": 731.544, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"哪\", \"start\": 731.544, \"end\": 731.784, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 731.784, \"end\": 733.606, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"廣\"}, {\"word\": \"義\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 733.606, \"end\": 733.806, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 733.806, \"end\": 733.986, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 733.986, \"end\": 734.186, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 734.186, \"end\": 734.667, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 734.667, \"end\": 734.947, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 734.947, \"end\": 735.207, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"首\", \"start\": 735.207, \"end\": 735.788, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 735.788, \"end\": 736.048, \"score\": 0.806}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 736.048, \"end\": 736.228, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"喔\", \"start\": 736.228, \"end\": 736.248, \"score\": 0.019}]}, {\"start\": 736.869, \"end\": 754.143, \"text\": \"是不是您在點頭也可能韓國瑜院長的財產申報也是在野黨委員說要成立調查的標的如果這樣包山包海你的預算有辦法支應嗎那請問你要從哪一個委員會來調你國發基金的議事人員是誰來擔綱哪一個委員會的議事人員來擔綱所以你們每一個委員會都是都是臨時編組嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 736.869, \"end\": 736.989, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 736.989, \"end\": 737.089, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 737.089, \"end\": 737.309, \"score\": 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\"來\"}, {\"word\": \"擔\"}, {\"word\": \"綱\"}, {\"word\": \"哪\", \"start\": 753.162, \"end\": 753.282, \"score\": 0.644}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 753.282, \"end\": 753.362, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 753.362, \"end\": 753.382, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 753.382, \"end\": 753.402, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 753.402, \"end\": 753.542, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 753.542, \"end\": 753.582, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"擔\"}, {\"word\": \"綱\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 753.582, \"end\": 753.602, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 753.602, \"end\": 753.622, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 753.622, \"end\": 753.642, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"每\", \"start\": 753.642, \"end\": 753.722, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 753.722, 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\"start\": 913.244, \"end\": 913.444, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 913.444, \"end\": 913.464, \"score\": 0.22}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"吳\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 914.625, \"end\": 914.645, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,106 --> 00:00:08,126\n張複蜜\n\n2\n00:00:27,426 --> 00:00:47,078\n那今天的主題我想先主要做幾個回應第一個立法院對於破壞議場議事的任何的開會不管是空間或是所有的我們提供的軟硬體硬體部分該查該辦就要公平\n\n3\n00:00:48,509 --> 00:01:10,376\n過去基於議事攻防對於立法院的公務造成很多的破壞這不是只有某一黨不是只有民進黨大家在激烈的議事攻防上各黨都有所以說要處理我非常同意我們都希望大家能夠規規矩矩的然後都能夠循議事規則能夠好好來開會\n\n4\n00:01:13,317 --> 00:01:13,617\n同意（\n\n5\n00:01:38,464 --> 00:01:56,710\n那第二個我也要澄清一下在自由民主的臺灣不會有任何一個政黨要主張讓臺灣走回頭路臺灣不可能走回戒嚴沒有任何一個政黨去肯定戒嚴這件事臺灣從1949到198738年的戒嚴時間造成人民莫大的\n\n6\n00:02:03,132 --> 00:02:03,312\n委員：吳思瑤\n\n7\n00:02:21,839 --> 00:02:41,605\n過去在這片土地上宣告戒嚴的政黨是中國國民黨民進黨是站在反抗推翻威權的一方所以如果有立委繼續帶風向說民進黨在肯定戒嚴這件事這才是不折不扣的造謠\n\n8\n00:02:42,845 --> 00:02:55,638\n好今天呢審議立法院的預算立法院今年度編列下年度的預算最初是36億當中最大宗呢是在議事行政的支持佔54.38%20億左右\n\n9\n00:02:59,842 --> 00:03:21,773\n那對於委員問政的相關support也有15億543萬的編列比例是4成大概是這樣子所以說立法院的預算用在支持委員的優質問政以及讓我們的議事支持的系統能夠非常穩健的進行這是我們花這筆預算最重要的地方\n\n10\n00:03:23,601 --> 00:03:48,858\n我現在要就教於您現在立法院有個亂象越來越多的調查委員會雨後春筍我們的人力物力怎麼來因應下一頁首先我想問一下在我們一一三憲判九之後針對國會調查權回應在立法院職權行使法第八章調查權之行使多數的條文是被大法官宣告違憲的\n\n11\n00:03:50,459 --> 00:04:18,140\n所以立法院現在當務之急針對部分多部分是違憲少部分合憲的條文使用上會產生前後矛盾或競合的問題立法院應當優先針對立法院職權行使法來好好的來修訂讓立法院的調查權成為一個強大的武器成為一整套非常精良的裝備\n\n12\n00:04:20,522 --> 00:04:44,599\n這應當是我們該做的事情吧是是那請問因為我們百分之五十四點三八的預算用在議事行政支持也百分之四十用在委員問政的優化協力那麼我們的法治局相關有關立法政策法律案及預算案等等之研究要進行分析評估諮詢公委員審查之參考\n\n13\n00:04:47,461 --> 00:04:49,964\n律法局局長律法局長律法局長律法局長律法局長律法局長\n\n14\n00:05:12,233 --> 00:05:14,756\n在憲判第9號判決結果之後我們整理了有關在113年6月24號我們立法院三讀通過的\n\n15\n00:05:26,178 --> 00:05:45,770\n國會改革國會內會改革總共大概修正的是40個條文包含中華民國新華那一條條文那在憲判是之後我們法治局做了哪些研究分析怎麼樣來補正修法我們內部的有做相關的針對第9憲判是第9號對有關他\n\n16\n00:05:49,124 --> 00:06:10,652\n大陸灣的審查標的違憲或部分違憲總共有18條。好,那我們做了哪些的延期?你說的這些我當然都了解。那我們有做一個那個針對因為這次憲判是第9號是很特別的。他針對每一個項,項下的每一個都繫到那個條文的文字裡面。\n\n17\n00:06:11,392 --> 00:06:31,699\n所以我願意給時間啊你們要好好來做研析分析啊提出修法的建議啊那我們的修法建議也只能提供那個修法的建議事後我們再把有再進行嘛那大概多久時間可以更因為您說這一次的憲判解釋確實很特別因為整套的違憲實在太多啊\n\n18\n00:06:32,319 --> 00:06:40,962\n向次是散落在各個條文所以說當然我願意給時間我只是責成你們應當進行中央編委已經有要求我們一個月之內我們會提供給司法法制委員會我們也希望趕快提供給立法院的各黨團我們來針對未來讓國會真改革的法案能夠修得更好為了讓我們以後的調查權的行使有名\n\n19\n00:06:56,428 --> 00:06:58,189\n現在使用的工具會卡卡的\n\n20\n00:07:19,236 --> 00:07:38,757\n你不曉得要適用這個條文前面合憲後面違憲所以現在立法院面對了如雨後春筍的調查委員會的成立比如說我們那天已經正式召開會議的國發基金不當投資這件事情的調查委員會也已經選舉出黃國昌召委\n\n21\n00:07:41,980 --> 00:07:42,140\n好,下一個。\n\n22\n00:08:05,254 --> 00:08:09,639\n那未來呢現在在協商的還有部會首場財產申報調查委員會他同樣的問題一樣立法院立法權又把手伸到監察權裡頭了因為財產申報的主管機關是監察院\n\n23\n00:08:22,094 --> 00:08:46,593\n那部會首長的範圍到底到哪裡如果廣義的部會首長狹義的才是立行政院的部會首長喔如果廣義的所有的行政機關的首長其實也包括我們的各院院長喔所以範圍不明確然後又侵犯了權力分立的原則但是可能這個案子\n\n24\n00:08:48,103 --> 00:09:00,616\n在野黨委員透過表決他還是會成立的我要說這是違憲的調查委員會在下一個還有一個呢就是勞動部的這個霸凌調查委員會我們都非常支持霸凌案嚴查徹查\n\n25\n00:09:02,336 --> 00:09:25,380\n現在行政調查已在進行全案行政院主院長也宣誓全案已經移送檢調調查換言之這個案子也在司法偵查當中國會的調查權有國會優惠的這種權利嗎立法院再大都不能夠跌床架屋把手伸到其他院紀機關的職權行使裡頭\n\n26\n00:09:28,661 --> 00:09:55,811\n但是這個案子很遺憾應當透過表決它還是會成立的民進黨非常支持所有霸凌的不管專案報告要在委員會的專案報告或是院會的專案報告我們都願意該進行我們對於霸凌的整個機制的建立我們非常的在乎從制度面去解決現在這個時候未還委員會正在進行勞動部新任部長侯生翰對於這整個霸凌案的報告\n\n27\n00:09:57,776 --> 00:10:26,135\n在下一頁最新的是昨天程序委員會在野黨又提案了要針對青鳥期間那那個時候身份不是立委那時候是政論節目的來賓王逸川他所提的一段言論然後又被在野黨無限延伸說是不是執政黨王逸川有辦法把手伸到通訊自由去非法監控國人這該澄清都澄清過了\n\n28\n00:10:27,276 --> 00:10:52,149\n但是還是有在野黨委員要成立調查委員會我要就教於您的是越來越多的調查委員會每一個都是特種委員會以後可能比我們8個常設委員會還多請問我們的人力物力你們怎麼來分派我們的所有的議事人員然後支出面要怎麼來因應調整\n\n29\n00:10:54,836 --> 00:11:12,834\n謝謝委員關心,我想國會的議事人員他的目的就是支援我們國會的議事程序的一個順利的一個進行所以在這個委員如果有共識或是大家有意覺的一個情況底下我們絕對是全力來配合\n\n30\n00:11:13,334 --> 00:11:29,612\n我們現在編列的預算就是我剛說的有20億這是議事行政的支持占了我們總預算的5乘4但是這是在一個常態的狀況之下就是我們的常設委員會跟比如說紀律委員會這些其他的委員會都可以研判\n\n31\n00:11:30,733 --> 00:11:31,994\n提案的委員並沒有辦法說明他要查哪一案\n\n32\n00:11:58,530 --> 00:12:16,248\n所以我們所有議事委員要投入的案子有多少上千案喔另外所有的部會首長的財產申報調查委員會如果不幸也成立了所有的部會首長到底擴及哪些廣義來講立法院院長也是首長之一喔\n\n33\n00:12:16,869 --> 00:12:34,143\n是不是您在點頭也可能韓國瑜院長的財產申報也是在野黨委員說要成立調查的標的如果這樣包山包海你的預算有辦法支應嗎那請問你要從哪一個委員會來調你國發基金的議事人員是誰來擔綱哪一個委員會的議事人員來擔綱所以你們每一個委員會都是都是臨時編組嗎\n\n34\n00:12:45,427 --> 00:13:00,875\n是不是還是國發基金可能是經濟委員會那個是參事室的兩位參事兩位參事我們參事室有幾位參事目前四位四位參事那現在已經有四個委員會會成立了你四位參事怎麼來輪他們會不會過牢而且每一個委員會的這個調查標的是這幾位參事的專業上能夠支持因應的嗎\n\n35\n00:13:12,193 --> 00:13:14,695\n我希望所有的調查委員會都是合憲合規的運作要調查就要有精良的武器\n\n36\n00:13:39,412 --> 00:13:57,247\n所以我剛剛說該修法把立法院職權刑事法有關於調查權該如何給我們一個最清楚的依循這個要先做到未來成立的任何調查委員會依循一套清清楚楚的遊戲規則民進黨版的國會改革方案立法院職權刑事法也有調查權\n\n37\n00:13:58,408 --> 00:14:20,074\n民進黨不反對國會調查權但是依憲法的精神國會的調查權有其界限不能侵犯其他憲法機關的核心領域不得侵犯監察院的不得深入司法權但是現在非常遺憾立法院已經是一個什麼該成立想查什麼就查什麼請你們及早因應我會在審議預算的時候因為你們現在編的54%用在議事的支持\n\n38\n00:14:25,973 --> 00:14:44,905\n除非你服邊很多啦要不然你現在成立現在已經4個調查委員會我跟你打包票未來可能越來越多怎麼去調派人力調派人力不是只有人去支援就好還有專業相輔調查的案件光國發基金個案上千個議案你怎麼調查\n\n39\n00:14:48,311 --> 00:15:13,464\n你們的人力物力要專業的行使調查權就要有精良的武器你們的預算足夠嗎?我們的人力足夠嗎?我們的專業足夠嗎?我不希望因為這樣而造成我們議事人員的過勞造成大家或者是勞役不均這也是我要非常利用審議預算的時候我們馬上會面對了你們可不可以一個月內\n\n40\n00:15:14,625 --> 00:15:14,645\n謝謝吳委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8106\t8126\t張複蜜\n27426\t47078\t那今天的主題我想先主要做幾個回應第一個立法院對於破壞議場議事的任何的開會不管是空間或是所有的我們提供的軟硬體硬體部分該查該辦就要公平\n48509\t70376\t過去基於議事攻防對於立法院的公務造成很多的破壞這不是只有某一黨不是只有民進黨大家在激烈的議事攻防上各黨都有所以說要處理我非常同意我們都希望大家能夠規規矩矩的然後都能夠循議事規則能夠好好來開會\n73317\t73617\t同意（\n98464\t116710\t那第二個我也要澄清一下在自由民主的臺灣不會有任何一個政黨要主張讓臺灣走回頭路臺灣不可能走回戒嚴沒有任何一個政黨去肯定戒嚴這件事臺灣從1949到198738年的戒嚴時間造成人民莫大的\n123132\t123312\t委員：吳思瑤\n141839\t161605\t過去在這片土地上宣告戒嚴的政黨是中國國民黨民進黨是站在反抗推翻威權的一方所以如果有立委繼續帶風向說民進黨在肯定戒嚴這件事這才是不折不扣的造謠\n162845\t175638\t好今天呢審議立法院的預算立法院今年度編列下年度的預算最初是36億當中最大宗呢是在議事行政的支持佔54.38%20億左右\n179842\t201773\t那對於委員問政的相關support也有15億543萬的編列比例是4成大概是這樣子所以說立法院的預算用在支持委員的優質問政以及讓我們的議事支持的系統能夠非常穩健的進行這是我們花這筆預算最重要的地方\n203601\t228858\t我現在要就教於您現在立法院有個亂象越來越多的調查委員會雨後春筍我們的人力物力怎麼來因應下一頁首先我想問一下在我們一一三憲判九之後針對國會調查權回應在立法院職權行使法第八章調查權之行使多數的條文是被大法官宣告違憲的\n230459\t258140\t所以立法院現在當務之急針對部分多部分是違憲少部分合憲的條文使用上會產生前後矛盾或競合的問題立法院應當優先針對立法院職權行使法來好好的來修訂讓立法院的調查權成為一個強大的武器成為一整套非常精良的裝備\n260522\t284599\t這應當是我們該做的事情吧是是那請問因為我們百分之五十四點三八的預算用在議事行政支持也百分之四十用在委員問政的優化協力那麼我們的法治局相關有關立法政策法律案及預算案等等之研究要進行分析評估諮詢公委員審查之參考\n287461\t289964\t律法局局長律法局長律法局長律法局長律法局長律法局長\n312233\t314756\t在憲判第9號判決結果之後我們整理了有關在113年6月24號我們立法院三讀通過的\n326178\t345770\t國會改革國會內會改革總共大概修正的是40個條文包含中華民國新華那一條條文那在憲判是之後我們法治局做了哪些研究分析怎麼樣來補正修法我們內部的有做相關的針對第9憲判是第9號對有關他\n349124\t370652\t大陸灣的審查標的違憲或部分違憲總共有18條。好,那我們做了哪些的延期?你說的這些我當然都了解。那我們有做一個那個針對因為這次憲判是第9號是很特別的。他針對每一個項,項下的每一個都繫到那個條文的文字裡面。\n371392\t391699\t所以我願意給時間啊你們要好好來做研析分析啊提出修法的建議啊那我們的修法建議也只能提供那個修法的建議事後我們再把有再進行嘛那大概多久時間可以更因為您說這一次的憲判解釋確實很特別因為整套的違憲實在太多啊\n392319\t400962\t向次是散落在各個條文所以說當然我願意給時間我只是責成你們應當進行中央編委已經有要求我們一個月之內我們會提供給司法法制委員會我們也希望趕快提供給立法院的各黨團我們來針對未來讓國會真改革的法案能夠修得更好為了讓我們以後的調查權的行使有名\n416428\t418189\t現在使用的工具會卡卡的\n439236\t458757\t你不曉得要適用這個條文前面合憲後面違憲所以現在立法院面對了如雨後春筍的調查委員會的成立比如說我們那天已經正式召開會議的國發基金不當投資這件事情的調查委員會也已經選舉出黃國昌召委\n461980\t462140\t好,下一個。\n485254\t489639\t那未來呢現在在協商的還有部會首場財產申報調查委員會他同樣的問題一樣立法院立法權又把手伸到監察權裡頭了因為財產申報的主管機關是監察院\n502094\t526593\t那部會首長的範圍到底到哪裡如果廣義的部會首長狹義的才是立行政院的部會首長喔如果廣義的所有的行政機關的首長其實也包括我們的各院院長喔所以範圍不明確然後又侵犯了權力分立的原則但是可能這個案子\n528103\t540616\t在野黨委員透過表決他還是會成立的我要說這是違憲的調查委員會在下一個還有一個呢就是勞動部的這個霸凌調查委員會我們都非常支持霸凌案嚴查徹查\n542336\t565380\t現在行政調查已在進行全案行政院主院長也宣誓全案已經移送檢調調查換言之這個案子也在司法偵查當中國會的調查權有國會優惠的這種權利嗎立法院再大都不能夠跌床架屋把手伸到其他院紀機關的職權行使裡頭\n568661\t595811\t但是這個案子很遺憾應當透過表決它還是會成立的民進黨非常支持所有霸凌的不管專案報告要在委員會的專案報告或是院會的專案報告我們都願意該進行我們對於霸凌的整個機制的建立我們非常的在乎從制度面去解決現在這個時候未還委員會正在進行勞動部新任部長侯生翰對於這整個霸凌案的報告\n597776\t626135\t在下一頁最新的是昨天程序委員會在野黨又提案了要針對青鳥期間那那個時候身份不是立委那時候是政論節目的來賓王逸川他所提的一段言論然後又被在野黨無限延伸說是不是執政黨王逸川有辦法把手伸到通訊自由去非法監控國人這該澄清都澄清過了\n627276\t652149\t但是還是有在野黨委員要成立調查委員會我要就教於您的是越來越多的調查委員會每一個都是特種委員會以後可能比我們8個常設委員會還多請問我們的人力物力你們怎麼來分派我們的所有的議事人員然後支出面要怎麼來因應調整\n654836\t672834\t謝謝委員關心,我想國會的議事人員他的目的就是支援我們國會的議事程序的一個順利的一個進行所以在這個委員如果有共識或是大家有意覺的一個情況底下我們絕對是全力來配合\n673334\t689612\t我們現在編列的預算就是我剛說的有20億這是議事行政的支持占了我們總預算的5乘4但是這是在一個常態的狀況之下就是我們的常設委員會跟比如說紀律委員會這些其他的委員會都可以研判\n690733\t691994\t提案的委員並沒有辦法說明他要查哪一案\n718530\t736248\t所以我們所有議事委員要投入的案子有多少上千案喔另外所有的部會首長的財產申報調查委員會如果不幸也成立了所有的部會首長到底擴及哪些廣義來講立法院院長也是首長之一喔\n736869\t754143\t是不是您在點頭也可能韓國瑜院長的財產申報也是在野黨委員說要成立調查的標的如果這樣包山包海你的預算有辦法支應嗎那請問你要從哪一個委員會來調你國發基金的議事人員是誰來擔綱哪一個委員會的議事人員來擔綱所以你們每一個委員會都是都是臨時編組嗎\n765427\t780875\t是不是還是國發基金可能是經濟委員會那個是參事室的兩位參事兩位參事我們參事室有幾位參事目前四位四位參事那現在已經有四個委員會會成立了你四位參事怎麼來輪他們會不會過牢而且每一個委員會的這個調查標的是這幾位參事的專業上能夠支持因應的嗎\n792193\t794695\t我希望所有的調查委員會都是合憲合規的運作要調查就要有精良的武器\n819412\t837247\t所以我剛剛說該修法把立法院職權刑事法有關於調查權該如何給我們一個最清楚的依循這個要先做到未來成立的任何調查委員會依循一套清清楚楚的遊戲規則民進黨版的國會改革方案立法院職權刑事法也有調查權\n838408\t860074\t民進黨不反對國會調查權但是依憲法的精神國會的調查權有其界限不能侵犯其他憲法機關的核心領域不得侵犯監察院的不得深入司法權但是現在非常遺憾立法院已經是一個什麼該成立想查什麼就查什麼請你們及早因應我會在審議預算的時候因為你們現在編的54%用在議事的支持\n865973\t884905\t除非你服邊很多啦要不然你現在成立現在已經4個調查委員會我跟你打包票未來可能越來越多怎麼去調派人力調派人力不是只有人去支援就好還有專業相輔調查的案件光國發基金個案上千個議案你怎麼調查\n888311\t913464\t你們的人力物力要專業的行使調查權就要有精良的武器你們的預算足夠嗎?我們的人力足夠嗎?我們的專業足夠嗎?我不希望因為這樣而造成我們議事人員的過勞造成大家或者是勞役不均這也是我要非常利用審議預算的時候我們馬上會面對了你們可不可以一個月內\n914625\t914645\t謝謝吳委員\n","txt":"張複蜜\n那今天的主題我想先主要做幾個回應第一個立法院對於破壞議場議事的任何的開會不管是空間或是所有的我們提供的軟硬體硬體部分該查該辦就要公平\n過去基於議事攻防對於立法院的公務造成很多的破壞這不是只有某一黨不是只有民進黨大家在激烈的議事攻防上各黨都有所以說要處理我非常同意我們都希望大家能夠規規矩矩的然後都能夠循議事規則能夠好好來開會\n同意（\n那第二個我也要澄清一下在自由民主的臺灣不會有任何一個政黨要主張讓臺灣走回頭路臺灣不可能走回戒嚴沒有任何一個政黨去肯定戒嚴這件事臺灣從1949到198738年的戒嚴時間造成人民莫大的\n委員：吳思瑤\n過去在這片土地上宣告戒嚴的政黨是中國國民黨民進黨是站在反抗推翻威權的一方所以如果有立委繼續帶風向說民進黨在肯定戒嚴這件事這才是不折不扣的造謠\n好今天呢審議立法院的預算立法院今年度編列下年度的預算最初是36億當中最大宗呢是在議事行政的支持佔54.38%20億左右\n那對於委員問政的相關support也有15億543萬的編列比例是4成大概是這樣子所以說立法院的預算用在支持委員的優質問政以及讓我們的議事支持的系統能夠非常穩健的進行這是我們花這筆預算最重要的地方\n我現在要就教於您現在立法院有個亂象越來越多的調查委員會雨後春筍我們的人力物力怎麼來因應下一頁首先我想問一下在我們一一三憲判九之後針對國會調查權回應在立法院職權行使法第八章調查權之行使多數的條文是被大法官宣告違憲的\n所以立法院現在當務之急針對部分多部分是違憲少部分合憲的條文使用上會產生前後矛盾或競合的問題立法院應當優先針對立法院職權行使法來好好的來修訂讓立法院的調查權成為一個強大的武器成為一整套非常精良的裝備\n這應當是我們該做的事情吧是是那請問因為我們百分之五十四點三八的預算用在議事行政支持也百分之四十用在委員問政的優化協力那麼我們的法治局相關有關立法政策法律案及預算案等等之研究要進行分析評估諮詢公委員審查之參考\n律法局局長律法局長律法局長律法局長律法局長律法局長\n在憲判第9號判決結果之後我們整理了有關在113年6月24號我們立法院三讀通過的\n國會改革國會內會改革總共大概修正的是40個條文包含中華民國新華那一條條文那在憲判是之後我們法治局做了哪些研究分析怎麼樣來補正修法我們內部的有做相關的針對第9憲判是第9號對有關他\n大陸灣的審查標的違憲或部分違憲總共有18條。好,那我們做了哪些的延期?你說的這些我當然都了解。那我們有做一個那個針對因為這次憲判是第9號是很特別的。他針對每一個項,項下的每一個都繫到那個條文的文字裡面。\n所以我願意給時間啊你們要好好來做研析分析啊提出修法的建議啊那我們的修法建議也只能提供那個修法的建議事後我們再把有再進行嘛那大概多久時間可以更因為您說這一次的憲判解釋確實很特別因為整套的違憲實在太多啊\n向次是散落在各個條文所以說當然我願意給時間我只是責成你們應當進行中央編委已經有要求我們一個月之內我們會提供給司法法制委員會我們也希望趕快提供給立法院的各黨團我們來針對未來讓國會真改革的法案能夠修得更好為了讓我們以後的調查權的行使有名\n現在使用的工具會卡卡的\n你不曉得要適用這個條文前面合憲後面違憲所以現在立法院面對了如雨後春筍的調查委員會的成立比如說我們那天已經正式召開會議的國發基金不當投資這件事情的調查委員會也已經選舉出黃國昌召委\n好,下一個。\n那未來呢現在在協商的還有部會首場財產申報調查委員會他同樣的問題一樣立法院立法權又把手伸到監察權裡頭了因為財產申報的主管機關是監察院\n那部會首長的範圍到底到哪裡如果廣義的部會首長狹義的才是立行政院的部會首長喔如果廣義的所有的行政機關的首長其實也包括我們的各院院長喔所以範圍不明確然後又侵犯了權力分立的原則但是可能這個案子\n在野黨委員透過表決他還是會成立的我要說這是違憲的調查委員會在下一個還有一個呢就是勞動部的這個霸凌調查委員會我們都非常支持霸凌案嚴查徹查\n現在行政調查已在進行全案行政院主院長也宣誓全案已經移送檢調調查換言之這個案子也在司法偵查當中國會的調查權有國會優惠的這種權利嗎立法院再大都不能夠跌床架屋把手伸到其他院紀機關的職權行使裡頭\n但是這個案子很遺憾應當透過表決它還是會成立的民進黨非常支持所有霸凌的不管專案報告要在委員會的專案報告或是院會的專案報告我們都願意該進行我們對於霸凌的整個機制的建立我們非常的在乎從制度面去解決現在這個時候未還委員會正在進行勞動部新任部長侯生翰對於這整個霸凌案的報告\n在下一頁最新的是昨天程序委員會在野黨又提案了要針對青鳥期間那那個時候身份不是立委那時候是政論節目的來賓王逸川他所提的一段言論然後又被在野黨無限延伸說是不是執政黨王逸川有辦法把手伸到通訊自由去非法監控國人這該澄清都澄清過了\n但是還是有在野黨委員要成立調查委員會我要就教於您的是越來越多的調查委員會每一個都是特種委員會以後可能比我們8個常設委員會還多請問我們的人力物力你們怎麼來分派我們的所有的議事人員然後支出面要怎麼來因應調整\n謝謝委員關心,我想國會的議事人員他的目的就是支援我們國會的議事程序的一個順利的一個進行所以在這個委員如果有共識或是大家有意覺的一個情況底下我們絕對是全力來配合\n我們現在編列的預算就是我剛說的有20億這是議事行政的支持占了我們總預算的5乘4但是這是在一個常態的狀況之下就是我們的常設委員會跟比如說紀律委員會這些其他的委員會都可以研判\n提案的委員並沒有辦法說明他要查哪一案\n所以我們所有議事委員要投入的案子有多少上千案喔另外所有的部會首長的財產申報調查委員會如果不幸也成立了所有的部會首長到底擴及哪些廣義來講立法院院長也是首長之一喔\n是不是您在點頭也可能韓國瑜院長的財產申報也是在野黨委員說要成立調查的標的如果這樣包山包海你的預算有辦法支應嗎那請問你要從哪一個委員會來調你國發基金的議事人員是誰來擔綱哪一個委員會的議事人員來擔綱所以你們每一個委員會都是都是臨時編組嗎\n是不是還是國發基金可能是經濟委員會那個是參事室的兩位參事兩位參事我們參事室有幾位參事目前四位四位參事那現在已經有四個委員會會成立了你四位參事怎麼來輪他們會不會過牢而且每一個委員會的這個調查標的是這幾位參事的專業上能夠支持因應的嗎\n我希望所有的調查委員會都是合憲合規的運作要調查就要有精良的武器\n所以我剛剛說該修法把立法院職權刑事法有關於調查權該如何給我們一個最清楚的依循這個要先做到未來成立的任何調查委員會依循一套清清楚楚的遊戲規則民進黨版的國會改革方案立法院職權刑事法也有調查權\n民進黨不反對國會調查權但是依憲法的精神國會的調查權有其界限不能侵犯其他憲法機關的核心領域不得侵犯監察院的不得深入司法權但是現在非常遺憾立法院已經是一個什麼該成立想查什麼就查什麼請你們及早因應我會在審議預算的時候因為你們現在編的54%用在議事的支持\n除非你服邊很多啦要不然你現在成立現在已經4個調查委員會我跟你打包票未來可能越來越多怎麼去調派人力調派人力不是只有人去支援就好還有專業相輔調查的案件光國發基金個案上千個議案你怎麼調查\n你們的人力物力要專業的行使調查權就要有精良的武器你們的預算足夠嗎?我們的人力足夠嗎?我們的專業足夠嗎?我不希望因為這樣而造成我們議事人員的過勞造成大家或者是勞役不均這也是我要非常利用審議預算的時候我們馬上會面對了你們可不可以一個月內\n謝謝吳委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.106 --> 00:08.126\n張複蜜\n\n00:27.426 --> 00:47.078\n那今天的主題我想先主要做幾個回應第一個立法院對於破壞議場議事的任何的開會不管是空間或是所有的我們提供的軟硬體硬體部分該查該辦就要公平\n\n00:48.509 --> 01:10.376\n過去基於議事攻防對於立法院的公務造成很多的破壞這不是只有某一黨不是只有民進黨大家在激烈的議事攻防上各黨都有所以說要處理我非常同意我們都希望大家能夠規規矩矩的然後都能夠循議事規則能夠好好來開會\n\n01:13.317 --> 01:13.617\n同意（\n\n01:38.464 --> 01:56.710\n那第二個我也要澄清一下在自由民主的臺灣不會有任何一個政黨要主張讓臺灣走回頭路臺灣不可能走回戒嚴沒有任何一個政黨去肯定戒嚴這件事臺灣從1949到198738年的戒嚴時間造成人民莫大的\n\n02:03.132 --> 02:03.312\n委員：吳思瑤\n\n02:21.839 --> 02:41.605\n過去在這片土地上宣告戒嚴的政黨是中國國民黨民進黨是站在反抗推翻威權的一方所以如果有立委繼續帶風向說民進黨在肯定戒嚴這件事這才是不折不扣的造謠\n\n02:42.845 --> 02:55.638\n好今天呢審議立法院的預算立法院今年度編列下年度的預算最初是36億當中最大宗呢是在議事行政的支持佔54.38%20億左右\n\n02:59.842 --> 03:21.773\n那對於委員問政的相關support也有15億543萬的編列比例是4成大概是這樣子所以說立法院的預算用在支持委員的優質問政以及讓我們的議事支持的系統能夠非常穩健的進行這是我們花這筆預算最重要的地方\n\n03:23.601 --> 03:48.858\n我現在要就教於您現在立法院有個亂象越來越多的調查委員會雨後春筍我們的人力物力怎麼來因應下一頁首先我想問一下在我們一一三憲判九之後針對國會調查權回應在立法院職權行使法第八章調查權之行使多數的條文是被大法官宣告違憲的\n\n03:50.459 --> 04:18.140\n所以立法院現在當務之急針對部分多部分是違憲少部分合憲的條文使用上會產生前後矛盾或競合的問題立法院應當優先針對立法院職權行使法來好好的來修訂讓立法院的調查權成為一個強大的武器成為一整套非常精良的裝備\n\n04:20.522 --> 04:44.599\n這應當是我們該做的事情吧是是那請問因為我們百分之五十四點三八的預算用在議事行政支持也百分之四十用在委員問政的優化協力那麼我們的法治局相關有關立法政策法律案及預算案等等之研究要進行分析評估諮詢公委員審查之參考\n\n04:47.461 --> 04:49.964\n律法局局長律法局長律法局長律法局長律法局長律法局長\n\n05:12.233 --> 05:14.756\n在憲判第9號判決結果之後我們整理了有關在113年6月24號我們立法院三讀通過的\n\n05:26.178 --> 05:45.770\n國會改革國會內會改革總共大概修正的是40個條文包含中華民國新華那一條條文那在憲判是之後我們法治局做了哪些研究分析怎麼樣來補正修法我們內部的有做相關的針對第9憲判是第9號對有關他\n\n05:49.124 --> 06:10.652\n大陸灣的審查標的違憲或部分違憲總共有18條。好,那我們做了哪些的延期?你說的這些我當然都了解。那我們有做一個那個針對因為這次憲判是第9號是很特別的。他針對每一個項,項下的每一個都繫到那個條文的文字裡面。\n\n06:11.392 --> 06:31.699\n所以我願意給時間啊你們要好好來做研析分析啊提出修法的建議啊那我們的修法建議也只能提供那個修法的建議事後我們再把有再進行嘛那大概多久時間可以更因為您說這一次的憲判解釋確實很特別因為整套的違憲實在太多啊\n\n06:32.319 --> 06:40.962\n向次是散落在各個條文所以說當然我願意給時間我只是責成你們應當進行中央編委已經有要求我們一個月之內我們會提供給司法法制委員會我們也希望趕快提供給立法院的各黨團我們來針對未來讓國會真改革的法案能夠修得更好為了讓我們以後的調查權的行使有名\n\n06:56.428 --> 06:58.189\n現在使用的工具會卡卡的\n\n07:19.236 --> 07:38.757\n你不曉得要適用這個條文前面合憲後面違憲所以現在立法院面對了如雨後春筍的調查委員會的成立比如說我們那天已經正式召開會議的國發基金不當投資這件事情的調查委員會也已經選舉出黃國昌召委\n\n07:41.980 --> 07:42.140\n好,下一個。\n\n08:05.254 --> 08:09.639\n那未來呢現在在協商的還有部會首場財產申報調查委員會他同樣的問題一樣立法院立法權又把手伸到監察權裡頭了因為財產申報的主管機關是監察院\n\n08:22.094 --> 08:46.593\n那部會首長的範圍到底到哪裡如果廣義的部會首長狹義的才是立行政院的部會首長喔如果廣義的所有的行政機關的首長其實也包括我們的各院院長喔所以範圍不明確然後又侵犯了權力分立的原則但是可能這個案子\n\n08:48.103 --> 09:00.616\n在野黨委員透過表決他還是會成立的我要說這是違憲的調查委員會在下一個還有一個呢就是勞動部的這個霸凌調查委員會我們都非常支持霸凌案嚴查徹查\n\n09:02.336 --> 09:25.380\n現在行政調查已在進行全案行政院主院長也宣誓全案已經移送檢調調查換言之這個案子也在司法偵查當中國會的調查權有國會優惠的這種權利嗎立法院再大都不能夠跌床架屋把手伸到其他院紀機關的職權行使裡頭\n\n09:28.661 --> 09:55.811\n但是這個案子很遺憾應當透過表決它還是會成立的民進黨非常支持所有霸凌的不管專案報告要在委員會的專案報告或是院會的專案報告我們都願意該進行我們對於霸凌的整個機制的建立我們非常的在乎從制度面去解決現在這個時候未還委員會正在進行勞動部新任部長侯生翰對於這整個霸凌案的報告\n\n09:57.776 --> 10:26.135\n在下一頁最新的是昨天程序委員會在野黨又提案了要針對青鳥期間那那個時候身份不是立委那時候是政論節目的來賓王逸川他所提的一段言論然後又被在野黨無限延伸說是不是執政黨王逸川有辦法把手伸到通訊自由去非法監控國人這該澄清都澄清過了\n\n10:27.276 --> 10:52.149\n但是還是有在野黨委員要成立調查委員會我要就教於您的是越來越多的調查委員會每一個都是特種委員會以後可能比我們8個常設委員會還多請問我們的人力物力你們怎麼來分派我們的所有的議事人員然後支出面要怎麼來因應調整\n\n10:54.836 --> 11:12.834\n謝謝委員關心,我想國會的議事人員他的目的就是支援我們國會的議事程序的一個順利的一個進行所以在這個委員如果有共識或是大家有意覺的一個情況底下我們絕對是全力來配合\n\n11:13.334 --> 11:29.612\n我們現在編列的預算就是我剛說的有20億這是議事行政的支持占了我們總預算的5乘4但是這是在一個常態的狀況之下就是我們的常設委員會跟比如說紀律委員會這些其他的委員會都可以研判\n\n11:30.733 --> 11:31.994\n提案的委員並沒有辦法說明他要查哪一案\n\n11:58.530 --> 12:16.248\n所以我們所有議事委員要投入的案子有多少上千案喔另外所有的部會首長的財產申報調查委員會如果不幸也成立了所有的部會首長到底擴及哪些廣義來講立法院院長也是首長之一喔\n\n12:16.869 --> 12:34.143\n是不是您在點頭也可能韓國瑜院長的財產申報也是在野黨委員說要成立調查的標的如果這樣包山包海你的預算有辦法支應嗎那請問你要從哪一個委員會來調你國發基金的議事人員是誰來擔綱哪一個委員會的議事人員來擔綱所以你們每一個委員會都是都是臨時編組嗎\n\n12:45.427 --> 13:00.875\n是不是還是國發基金可能是經濟委員會那個是參事室的兩位參事兩位參事我們參事室有幾位參事目前四位四位參事那現在已經有四個委員會會成立了你四位參事怎麼來輪他們會不會過牢而且每一個委員會的這個調查標的是這幾位參事的專業上能夠支持因應的嗎\n\n13:12.193 --> 13:14.695\n我希望所有的調查委員會都是合憲合規的運作要調查就要有精良的武器\n\n13:39.412 --> 13:57.247\n所以我剛剛說該修法把立法院職權刑事法有關於調查權該如何給我們一個最清楚的依循這個要先做到未來成立的任何調查委員會依循一套清清楚楚的遊戲規則民進黨版的國會改革方案立法院職權刑事法也有調查權\n\n13:58.408 --> 14:20.074\n民進黨不反對國會調查權但是依憲法的精神國會的調查權有其界限不能侵犯其他憲法機關的核心領域不得侵犯監察院的不得深入司法權但是現在非常遺憾立法院已經是一個什麼該成立想查什麼就查什麼請你們及早因應我會在審議預算的時候因為你們現在編的54%用在議事的支持\n\n14:25.973 --> 14:44.905\n除非你服邊很多啦要不然你現在成立現在已經4個調查委員會我跟你打包票未來可能越來越多怎麼去調派人力調派人力不是只有人去支援就好還有專業相輔調查的案件光國發基金個案上千個議案你怎麼調查\n\n14:48.311 --> 15:13.464\n你們的人力物力要專業的行使調查權就要有精良的武器你們的預算足夠嗎?我們的人力足夠嗎?我們的專業足夠嗎?我不希望因為這樣而造成我們議事人員的過勞造成大家或者是勞役不均這也是我要非常利用審議預算的時候我們馬上會面對了你們可不可以一個月內\n\n15:14.625 --> 15:14.645\n謝謝吳委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.106,"end":8.126,"text":"張複蜜"},{"start":27.426,"end":47.078,"text":"那今天的主題我想先主要做幾個回應第一個立法院對於破壞議場議事的任何的開會不管是空間或是所有的我們提供的軟硬體硬體部分該查該辦就要公平"},{"start":48.509,"end":70.376,"text":"過去基於議事攻防對於立法院的公務造成很多的破壞這不是只有某一黨不是只有民進黨大家在激烈的議事攻防上各黨都有所以說要處理我非常同意我們都希望大家能夠規規矩矩的然後都能夠循議事規則能夠好好來開會"},{"start":73.317,"end":73.617,"text":"同意（"},{"start":98.464,"end":116.71,"text":"那第二個我也要澄清一下在自由民主的臺灣不會有任何一個政黨要主張讓臺灣走回頭路臺灣不可能走回戒嚴沒有任何一個政黨去肯定戒嚴這件事臺灣從1949到198738年的戒嚴時間造成人民莫大的"},{"start":123.132,"end":123.312,"text":"委員：吳思瑤"},{"start":141.839,"end":161.605,"text":"過去在這片土地上宣告戒嚴的政黨是中國國民黨民進黨是站在反抗推翻威權的一方所以如果有立委繼續帶風向說民進黨在肯定戒嚴這件事這才是不折不扣的造謠"},{"start":162.845,"end":175.638,"text":"好今天呢審議立法院的預算立法院今年度編列下年度的預算最初是36億當中最大宗呢是在議事行政的支持佔54.38%20億左右"},{"start":179.842,"end":201.773,"text":"那對於委員問政的相關support也有15億543萬的編列比例是4成大概是這樣子所以說立法院的預算用在支持委員的優質問政以及讓我們的議事支持的系統能夠非常穩健的進行這是我們花這筆預算最重要的地方"},{"start":203.601,"end":228.858,"text":"我現在要就教於您現在立法院有個亂象越來越多的調查委員會雨後春筍我們的人力物力怎麼來因應下一頁首先我想問一下在我們一一三憲判九之後針對國會調查權回應在立法院職權行使法第八章調查權之行使多數的條文是被大法官宣告違憲的"},{"start":230.459,"end":258.14,"text":"所以立法院現在當務之急針對部分多部分是違憲少部分合憲的條文使用上會產生前後矛盾或競合的問題立法院應當優先針對立法院職權行使法來好好的來修訂讓立法院的調查權成為一個強大的武器成為一整套非常精良的裝備"},{"start":260.522,"end":284.599,"text":"這應當是我們該做的事情吧是是那請問因為我們百分之五十四點三八的預算用在議事行政支持也百分之四十用在委員問政的優化協力那麼我們的法治局相關有關立法政策法律案及預算案等等之研究要進行分析評估諮詢公委員審查之參考"},{"start":287.461,"end":289.964,"text":"律法局局長律法局長律法局長律法局長律法局長律法局長"},{"start":312.233,"end":314.756,"text":"在憲判第9號判決結果之後我們整理了有關在113年6月24號我們立法院三讀通過的"},{"start":326.178,"end":345.77,"text":"國會改革國會內會改革總共大概修正的是40個條文包含中華民國新華那一條條文那在憲判是之後我們法治局做了哪些研究分析怎麼樣來補正修法我們內部的有做相關的針對第9憲判是第9號對有關他"},{"start":349.124,"end":370.652,"text":"大陸灣的審查標的違憲或部分違憲總共有18條。好,那我們做了哪些的延期?你說的這些我當然都了解。那我們有做一個那個針對因為這次憲判是第9號是很特別的。他針對每一個項,項下的每一個都繫到那個條文的文字裡面。"},{"start":371.392,"end":391.699,"text":"所以我願意給時間啊你們要好好來做研析分析啊提出修法的建議啊那我們的修法建議也只能提供那個修法的建議事後我們再把有再進行嘛那大概多久時間可以更因為您說這一次的憲判解釋確實很特別因為整套的違憲實在太多啊"},{"start":392.319,"end":400.962,"text":"向次是散落在各個條文所以說當然我願意給時間我只是責成你們應當進行中央編委已經有要求我們一個月之內我們會提供給司法法制委員會我們也希望趕快提供給立法院的各黨團我們來針對未來讓國會真改革的法案能夠修得更好為了讓我們以後的調查權的行使有名"},{"start":416.428,"end":418.189,"text":"現在使用的工具會卡卡的"},{"start":439.236,"end":458.757,"text":"你不曉得要適用這個條文前面合憲後面違憲所以現在立法院面對了如雨後春筍的調查委員會的成立比如說我們那天已經正式召開會議的國發基金不當投資這件事情的調查委員會也已經選舉出黃國昌召委"},{"start":461.98,"end":462.14,"text":"好,下一個。"},{"start":485.254,"end":489.639,"text":"那未來呢現在在協商的還有部會首場財產申報調查委員會他同樣的問題一樣立法院立法權又把手伸到監察權裡頭了因為財產申報的主管機關是監察院"},{"start":502.094,"end":526.593,"text":"那部會首長的範圍到底到哪裡如果廣義的部會首長狹義的才是立行政院的部會首長喔如果廣義的所有的行政機關的首長其實也包括我們的各院院長喔所以範圍不明確然後又侵犯了權力分立的原則但是可能這個案子"},{"start":528.103,"end":540.616,"text":"在野黨委員透過表決他還是會成立的我要說這是違憲的調查委員會在下一個還有一個呢就是勞動部的這個霸凌調查委員會我們都非常支持霸凌案嚴查徹查"},{"start":542.336,"end":565.38,"text":"現在行政調查已在進行全案行政院主院長也宣誓全案已經移送檢調調查換言之這個案子也在司法偵查當中國會的調查權有國會優惠的這種權利嗎立法院再大都不能夠跌床架屋把手伸到其他院紀機關的職權行使裡頭"},{"start":568.661,"end":595.811,"text":"但是這個案子很遺憾應當透過表決它還是會成立的民進黨非常支持所有霸凌的不管專案報告要在委員會的專案報告或是院會的專案報告我們都願意該進行我們對於霸凌的整個機制的建立我們非常的在乎從制度面去解決現在這個時候未還委員會正在進行勞動部新任部長侯生翰對於這整個霸凌案的報告"},{"start":597.776,"end":626.135,"text":"在下一頁最新的是昨天程序委員會在野黨又提案了要針對青鳥期間那那個時候身份不是立委那時候是政論節目的來賓王逸川他所提的一段言論然後又被在野黨無限延伸說是不是執政黨王逸川有辦法把手伸到通訊自由去非法監控國人這該澄清都澄清過了"},{"start":627.276,"end":652.149,"text":"但是還是有在野黨委員要成立調查委員會我要就教於您的是越來越多的調查委員會每一個都是特種委員會以後可能比我們8個常設委員會還多請問我們的人力物力你們怎麼來分派我們的所有的議事人員然後支出面要怎麼來因應調整"},{"start":654.836,"end":672.834,"text":"謝謝委員關心,我想國會的議事人員他的目的就是支援我們國會的議事程序的一個順利的一個進行所以在這個委員如果有共識或是大家有意覺的一個情況底下我們絕對是全力來配合"},{"start":673.334,"end":689.612,"text":"我們現在編列的預算就是我剛說的有20億這是議事行政的支持占了我們總預算的5乘4但是這是在一個常態的狀況之下就是我們的常設委員會跟比如說紀律委員會這些其他的委員會都可以研判"},{"start":690.733,"end":691.994,"text":"提案的委員並沒有辦法說明他要查哪一案"},{"start":718.53,"end":736.248,"text":"所以我們所有議事委員要投入的案子有多少上千案喔另外所有的部會首長的財產申報調查委員會如果不幸也成立了所有的部會首長到底擴及哪些廣義來講立法院院長也是首長之一喔"},{"start":736.869,"end":754.143,"text":"是不是您在點頭也可能韓國瑜院長的財產申報也是在野黨委員說要成立調查的標的如果這樣包山包海你的預算有辦法支應嗎那請問你要從哪一個委員會來調你國發基金的議事人員是誰來擔綱哪一個委員會的議事人員來擔綱所以你們每一個委員會都是都是臨時編組嗎"},{"start":765.427,"end":780.875,"text":"是不是還是國發基金可能是經濟委員會那個是參事室的兩位參事兩位參事我們參事室有幾位參事目前四位四位參事那現在已經有四個委員會會成立了你四位參事怎麼來輪他們會不會過牢而且每一個委員會的這個調查標的是這幾位參事的專業上能夠支持因應的嗎"},{"start":792.193,"end":794.695,"text":"我希望所有的調查委員會都是合憲合規的運作要調查就要有精良的武器"},{"start":819.412,"end":837.247,"text":"所以我剛剛說該修法把立法院職權刑事法有關於調查權該如何給我們一個最清楚的依循這個要先做到未來成立的任何調查委員會依循一套清清楚楚的遊戲規則民進黨版的國會改革方案立法院職權刑事法也有調查權"},{"start":838.408,"end":860.074,"text":"民進黨不反對國會調查權但是依憲法的精神國會的調查權有其界限不能侵犯其他憲法機關的核心領域不得侵犯監察院的不得深入司法權但是現在非常遺憾立法院已經是一個什麼該成立想查什麼就查什麼請你們及早因應我會在審議預算的時候因為你們現在編的54%用在議事的支持"},{"start":865.973,"end":884.905,"text":"除非你服邊很多啦要不然你現在成立現在已經4個調查委員會我跟你打包票未來可能越來越多怎麼去調派人力調派人力不是只有人去支援就好還有專業相輔調查的案件光國發基金個案上千個議案你怎麼調查"},{"start":888.311,"end":913.464,"text":"你們的人力物力要專業的行使調查權就要有精良的武器你們的預算足夠嗎?我們的人力足夠嗎?我們的專業足夠嗎?我不希望因為這樣而造成我們議事人員的過勞造成大家或者是勞役不均這也是我要非常利用審議預算的時候我們馬上會面對了你們可不可以一個月內"},{"start":914.625,"end":914.645,"text":"謝謝吳委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":915,"blocks":[["吳委員思瑤：（11時27分）謝謝，有請張副秘。"],["主席：麻煩張副秘。"],["張副秘書長裕榮：吳委員好。"],["吳委員思瑤：大家辛苦，也預祝秘書長真的要保重身體，最近感冒比較多，我自己也病了半個月。","針對今天的主題，我想先主要做幾個回應。第一個，立法院對於破壞議場議事任何的開會，不管是空間或是所有我們提供的軟體硬體部分，該查該辦就要公平。過去基於議事攻防，對於立法院的公務造成很多的破壞，這不是只有某一黨，不是只有民進黨，大家在激烈的議事攻防上各黨都有，所以要處理我非常同意，我們都希望大家能夠規規矩矩的，然後都能夠循議事規則好好來開會。但是也要呼籲所有的議案都要遵循民主的原則，如果有些排案的委員或者是做出非常多高度爭議性的政治性法案，當然會有比較高的議事攻防，但是大家要一視同仁，立法院處理各個黨都要一致。您同意吧？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：同意。"],["吳委員思瑤：第二個，我也要澄清一下，在自由民主的臺灣，不會有任何一個政黨要主張讓臺灣走回頭路，臺灣不可能走回戒嚴，沒有任何一個政黨去肯定戒嚴這件事。臺灣從1949到1987這38年的戒嚴時間，造成人民莫大的迫害、傷害，這些都是發生在這片土地上，讓國人非常傷痛、苦痛的歷史記憶，沒有人可以、也沒有人應該重蹈覆轍，民主進步黨更不可能。過去在這片土地上宣告戒嚴的政黨是中國國民黨，民進黨是站在反抗、推翻威權的一方，所以如果有立委繼續帶風向說民進黨在肯定戒嚴這件事，這才是不折不扣的造謠。","今天審議立法院的預算，立法院今年度編列下年度的預算，歲出是36億，當中最大宗是在議事行政的支持，占54.38% 即20億左右，對於委員問政的相關support也有15億543萬的編列，比例是四成，大概是這樣子。所以立法院的預算用在支持委員的優質問政，以及讓我們支持議事的系統能夠非常穩健的進行，這是我們花這筆預算最重要的地方。我現在要就教於副秘，現在立法院有個亂象，越來越多的調查委員會雨後春筍，我們的人力、物力怎麼來因應？首先我想問一下，在我們113憲判字第9號之後，針對國會調查權回應在立法院職權行使法第八章調查權之行使，多數的條文是被大法官宣告違憲的，所以立法院現在當務之急，針對多部分是違憲、少部分合憲的條文使用上會產生前後矛盾或競合的問題，立法院應當優先針對立法院職權行使法來好好修訂，讓立法院的調查權成為一個強大的武器，成為一整套非常精良的裝備，這應當是我們該做的事情吧？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：對。"],["吳委員思瑤：因為我們54.38%的預算用在支持議事行政，40%用在委員問政的優化協力，我們的法制局有關立法政策、法律案及預算案等等之研究要進行分析、評估、諮詢，供委員審查之參考，這個部分也是我們支應預算，我們該做的事，那我們的法制局有沒有要針對立法院職權行使法，修憲之後，所謂的讓國會改革真正的成為權責相符的改革方案？我們啟動了什麼樣的修法分析研議？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：是不是請法制局說明？"],["吳委員思瑤：好，沒問題。"],["郭局長明政：跟委員報告，在憲判字第9號判決結果之後，我們整理了有關在113年6月24日立院三讀通過的國會內規改革，總共大概修正了41個條文，包含中華民國刑法那一條條文。在憲判字第9號之後……"],["吳委員思瑤：之後法制局做了哪些研究分析？怎麼樣來補正修法？"],["郭局長明政：我們內部有做相關的……針對憲判字第9號有關大法官的審查標的違憲或部分違憲，總共有18條。"],["吳委員思瑤：好，那我們做了哪些的研析？"],["郭局長明政：審查標的……"],["吳委員思瑤：你說的這些，我當然都瞭解。"],["郭局長明政：委員，因為這次憲判字第9號是很特別的，它針對每一個項，項下的每一個都細到條文的文字裡面……"],["吳委員思瑤：所以我願意給時間，你們要好好來做研析、分析，以提出修法的建議。"],["郭局長明政：我們的修法建議也只能提供那個修法建議，事後我們再把……"],["吳委員思瑤：有在進行吧？"],["郭局長明政：有、有。"],["吳委員思瑤：大概多久時間可以更……因為您說這一次的憲判解釋確實很特別，因為整套的違憲實在太多啊，項次是散落在各個條文。"],["郭局長明政：是、是。"],["吳委員思瑤：所以當然我願意給時間，我只是責成你們應當進行。"],["郭局長明政：剛才鍾佳濱委員已經有要求我們一個月之內，我們會提供給司法及法制委員會跟委員辦公室……"],["吳委員思瑤：好，我們也希望趕快提供給立法院的各黨團，我們來針對未來讓國會真改革的法案能夠修得更好，為了讓我們以後的調查權的行使有明確的法治依據。"],["郭局長明政：是、是，我們一定本於權責，幫委員提供這樣的問政……"],["吳委員思瑤：好，更積極來做，沒有任何的預設立場，法律本來就沒有顏色。"],["郭局長明政：沒有問題，這個沒有問題。"],["吳委員思瑤：因為在修憲之後的職權行使法有關調查權的行使的法規都沒有健全，所以現在使用的這個工具會卡卡的，你不曉得要適用這個條文，前面合憲、後面違憲，現在立法院又面對了如雨後春筍的調查委員會的成立，譬如那天已經正式召開會議的國發基金不當投資調查委員會，也已經選舉出黃國昌召委，當然民進黨認為當天的選舉是無效的，組成是不公的，調查的範圍是不明確的，而且明確的侵犯了其他憲法機關的權力，把手伸到司法調查權的案件，也把手伸到監察院調查權的案子，這個是我們對於國發基金不當投資調查委員會的立場。","未來還有現在在協商的部會首長財產申報調查委員會，同樣還是一樣的問題，立法院立法權又把手伸到監察權裡頭了，因為財產申報的主管機關是監察院，部會首長的範圍到底到哪裡？如果廣義的是部會首長，狹義的才是行政院的部會首長，如果廣義的所有行政機關的首長，其實也包括我們的各院院長，所以範圍不明確，然後又侵犯了權力分立的原則，但是可能這個案子在野黨委員透過表決還是會成立的，我要說這是違憲的調查委員會。","還有一個就是勞動部的霸凌調查委員會，我們都非常支持霸凌案嚴查、徹查，現在行政調查已在進行，行政院卓院長也宣示全案已經移送檢調調查，換言之，這個案子也在司法偵查當中，國會的調查權有國會優位的權力嗎？立法院再大都不能夠疊床架屋，把手伸到其他院際機關的職權行使裡頭。但是很遺憾，這個案子應當透過表決還是會成立的，民進黨非常支持所有霸凌的不管是要在委員會的專案報告，或是院會的專案報告，我們都願意、該進行，我們對於霸凌的整個機制的建立非常在乎，從制度面去解決，現在這個時候衛環委員會正在進行勞動部新任部長洪申翰對於這整個霸凌案的報告。","最新的是昨天程序委員會在野黨又提案了，要針對青鳥期間那個時候身分不是立委而是政論節目來賓王義川所提的一段言論，然後又被在野黨無限延伸說，是不是執政黨王義川有辦法把手伸到通訊自由去非法監控國人？這該澄清都澄清過了，但還是有在野黨委員要成立調查委員會。我要就教於您的是，越來越多的調查委員會，每一個都是特種委員會，以後可能比我們8個常設委員會還多，請問就原有的人力、物力，你們怎麼來分派所有的議事人員？然後支出面要怎麼來因應調整？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：謝謝委員的關心。國會議事人員的目的就是支援我們國會的議事程序能夠順利進行，所以在委員如果有共識或是大家要議決的情況底下，我們絕對是全力來配合。"],["吳委員思瑤：我們現在編列的預算就是我剛剛說的有20億，這是議事行政的支持，占了我們總預算的五成四，但是這是在一個常態的狀況之下，就是我們的常設委員會跟譬如紀律委員會這些其他的委員會，都可以研判routine的立法院該有的大概都在這個預算裡頭，除非你高編很多、浮編很多，才足以去因應未來可能有10個、20個或5個、10個，我不知道數量多少的各式各樣的調查委員會。又如同我剛剛說的國家發展基金不當投資暨管理失職調查委員會，因為範圍太廣，國發基金的投資案超過千案，提案的委員並沒有辦法說明他要查哪一案，所以我們所有議事人員要投入的案子有多少？上千案嗎？另外，所有的部會首長財產申報調查委員會如果不幸也成立了，所有的部會首長到底擴及哪些？廣義來講，立法院院長也是首長之一，是不是？您在點頭。也可能韓國瑜院長的財產申報也是在野黨委員說要成立調查的標的，如果這樣包山包海，你的預算有辦法支應嗎？請問你要從哪一個委員會來調？國發基金的議事人員是誰來擔綱？哪一個委員會的議事人員來擔綱？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：那個是另外再找。"],["吳委員思瑤：所以你們每一個委員會都是臨時編組嗎？是不是？還是國發基金可能是經濟委員會？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：那個是參事室的2位參事來當主任秘書跟……"],["吳委員思瑤：2位參事，我們參事是有幾位參事？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：目前4位。"],["吳委員思瑤：4位參事，那現在已經有4個委員會會成立了，你4位參事怎麼來輪？他們會不會過勞？而且每一個委員會的調查標的是這幾位參事的專業上能夠支持、因應的嗎？"],["郭局長明政：跟委員報告，有關調查委員會，它不是每天都開會啦！"],["吳委員思瑤：但是它調查的案子很多，我們各個委員會一個禮拜開一、三、四。"],["郭局長明政：因為有關的議事人員是由秘書長來做指派，所以人力調配的問題，這個可能……"],["吳委員思瑤：好，我把這個問題點出來，我希望所有的調查委員會都是合憲合規的運作，要調查就要有精良的武器，所以我剛剛說該修法，立法院職權行使法有關於調查權該如何給我們一個最清楚的依循，這個要先做到，未來成立的任何調查委員會依循一套清清楚楚的遊戲規則。在民進黨版的國會改革方案，立法院職權行使法也有調查權，民進黨不反對國會調查權，但是依憲法的精神，國會的調查權有其界限，不能侵犯其他憲法機關的核心領域，不得侵犯監察院，不得伸入司法權，但是現在非常遺憾，立法院已經是一個什麼該成立，想查什麼就查什麼。","請你們及早因應，我會在審議預算的時候，因為你們現在編的54%用在議事的支持，除非你浮編很多啦！要不然你現在已經4個調查委員會要成立，我跟你打包票，未來可能越來越多，怎麼去調派人力？調派人力不是只有人去支援就好，還要專業相符，調查的案件光國發基金一個案，就有上千個議案，你怎麼調查？你們的人力、物力，要專業的行使調查權就要有精良的武器，你們的預算足夠嗎？你們的人力足夠嗎？你們的專業足夠嗎？我不希望因為這樣而造成議事人員的過勞，或者是造成大家勞逸不均，這也是我要利用審議預算的時候，我們馬上會面對了，你們可不可以一個月內，其實也不用一個月內，可能半個月內，因為審預算就要了，針對這麼多如雨後春筍的調查委員會，你們的預算如何支應、人力如何調派、專業如何支持，提一個報告給司法及法制委員會，好嗎？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：好，謝謝。"],["吳委員思瑤：好，謝謝，辛苦了！"],["主席：謝謝吳委員。","法制局長還有副秘麻煩留步一下，因為剛剛洪孟楷委員有提到這個部分，現在大家都已經質詢完畢了，所以我還是仔細說明一下，我國刑法第三百零六條對於無故侵入他人住宅以及建築物本來就有法律的規範，那對於公家機關夜間管制的區域，民眾是不得侵入的，這個民眾當然也包括立法委員他在非上班時間，在立法院管制的區域內，他也是不得無故侵入，這個在法律上面應該是沒有問題。之前有委員他們用打破窗戶或者是偷開門進入……"],["吳委員思瑤：有哦！黃國昌有，國民黨陳超明有，要公平對待！"],["主席：沒關係，不管任何政黨，那這個部分……"],["吳委員思瑤：各黨都有，公平對待！"],["主席：在管制的期間內，他如果用打破窗戶跟偷開門進入管制區域，這個在法律上面叫做犯罪，只是說第三百零六條是屬於告訴乃論之罪。","我再補充一下，我國刑事訴訟法第兩百四十一條，對於非屬偵查機關的公務員，也就是你們，你們是非屬偵查機關的公務員，他如果在執行職務的時候發現犯罪，他應該予以告發，雖然告發跟告訴乃論之罪還是有一定的差距，但是可以看得出來，我國的法制對於公務員在執行職務的時候，發現有犯罪的話，你本來就會有一個告發的義務，所以雖然侵入住宅是屬於告訴乃論，但我也要請你們能夠去瞭解一下這個狀況，目前我國其實有非常多的判決就是針對民眾在非上班時間進入公家機關，他侵入管制區域。","以立法院這邊為例好了，立法委員在夜間要進出立法院，這個是沒有問題的，駐衛警也會讓他進來。以本棟樓為例，你如果今天是進入到樓梯間，也是沒有問題，因為樓梯間並沒有管制，可是包括院會的議場以及各委員會的開會場所，晚上是會鎖門的，所以如果立法委員在管制期間，也就是非開門進行委員會的期間他想要進入到會場裡面，他必須透過議事人員、立法院人員的同意，而且開門讓他進來才可以，他不能夠用打破窗戶或偷開門的小偷模式來進入這邊，這樣進來的話他就是違反刑法第三百零六條啊！明顯你立法委員就是在帶頭違法犯罪。","我想剛剛就法制部分我分析得很清楚，如果我的法律見解有錯誤的話，法制局長也可以反駁我的說法，法制局長，你的想法呢？"],["郭局長明政：剛剛召委講得完全正確，沒有問題，可是當侵入住宅的這個法益被侵犯之後，那個提出告訴的人在這個機關就是我們院長，到時候應該是看院長是不是同意當告訴人。"],["主席：是，這個沒有問題，我覺得非常多判決都是如此，因為告訴乃論之罪還是要有告訴權人才能夠提告，所以我剛剛有說過，刑事訴訟法第兩百四十一條的告發，公務員的職權告發，它是在告發案件，並不是在告訴乃論案件，所以確實由院長來決定，但是是不是能夠麻煩你們公告周知給所有的立委？在夜間你用這種非法的方式入侵，其實是會構成犯罪，而且也有被院長提告的風險，我想過去的委員都完全漠視法律的規定，動不動打破窗戶進到院會或進到委員會，那這個也會造成危險，他打破窗戶，之前我記得有人就是被割到韌帶嘛！前兩屆的事情，那我希望我們是不是有機會能夠把這種基本的法律概念告訴這些立法委員，請他們瞭解基本的法律概念？如果立法員帶頭做違法的事情，我想全國人民應該會覺得這很荒謬吧！","我的意思不是說去追究任何人，而且過去的事情我也不會想要回過頭去追究任何一個人或任何一個政黨，我比較希望我們把這個道理至少能夠讓各位委員知道，讓大家不要說晚上還要躲在茶水間或幹什麼，其實在我以前的觀念裡面，這個都是宵小在做的事情，為什麼會是一個國會立委在做的事？當然啦！他們可能不懂這個是犯罪，所以是不是麻煩你們能夠告訴所有的立委，這個可能會構成犯罪？因為萬一有一天如果韓院長真的覺得他必須整頓風氣，他提告了，那這個告訴乃論之罪在發生後6個月內都可以告啊！所以什麼時候會被告我們不清楚，所以不如我們先把它變成一個通案的概念，告訴所有的立委這樣做是不對的，我想這個也會減少立法院在場所管理上面的負擔，這個再麻煩副秘能夠處理。"],["張副秘書長裕榮：謝謝主席的指教，我們會後請法制局就這個案例的狀況來做完整的分析研究以後，做成一個報告，然後我們再來看後續怎麼樣……"],["主席：其實我希望這麼做，一切依法，也是不希望立法院的議事人員去承擔這個責任，否則他晚上要衝進來，你攔也不是，不攔也不是，那不如就依法來做，因為我們是法治國家嘛！我每次都希望大家能夠依法處理，但是好像大家都不把我國法治以及議事規則當一回事啊！這是我在這邊主持7、8個月的感覺。好，非常謝謝副秘，非常謝謝法制局局長。","今天所有登記發言委員都已經發言完畢，詢答結束。委員質詢時要求提供的相關資料或以書面答復者，請相關機關儘速送交個別委員及本會。委員謝龍介所提書面質詢列入紀錄，刊登公報，並請相關機關以書面答復。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":308,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-36-17","speakers":["吳宗憲","陳俊宇","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","黃國昌","沈發惠","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","羅智強","林思銘","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","葉元之","吳思瑤","謝龍介"],"page_start":249,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311101_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於立法院主管收支部分【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"11311101_00002"}}}